Video Streaming Goes Peer-to-Peer 180
CMU ESM Project writes "Our research group at Carnegie Mellon University has developed a peer to
peer streaming video content distribution system called End System
Multicast (ESM).
The system constructs a self-organizing and adaptive overlay network
using
the receivers that are tuning into the broadcast events. The system has
been
used fairly successfully for
quite a few events. Now we want test the system with a lot of more users
and different user join patterns. We are streaming some very cool
video, such as Triumph of the Nerds by Bob Cringely, distinguished
lecture by Eric Schmidt,
CEO of Google, ACM SIGCOMM conference paper presentation by Dave Clark,
and 2002 Sony Legged Robot Soccer Championship.
Here is the detailed
schedule. So please tune in, enjoy, and help test our system!" The streaming is based on QuickTime; for Linux users, the project page steps through installation of CodeWeaver's CrossOver plug-in.
uhhh... (Score:2, Funny)
If you wanna grab the
But... (Score:2)
Re:uhhh... (Score:2)
'Nuf said.
Soko
Re:uhhh... (Score:2)
They want streaming video tests, not static pages of an empty chair.
Prepare to hear from the MPAA (Score:2)
Re:Prepare to hear from the MPAA (Score:3, Interesting)
The fundamental problem with true video-on-demand is at the server end. Sure, you can stagger showings like todays PPV systems, but the viewer cannot pause, rewind and fast-forward.
P2P solves this. As much bandwidth as you need. The more popular a piece of media becomes, the easier it is to get. A reverse slashdot effect. It's a much more elegant solution compared to throwing bandwidth and server capacity at the problem. Put P2P in a TIVO, it's just gained a second killer app. The only problem is that if two users record the same show, they will not be HASH compatible, which is essential for a good multi-point downloading p2p network. Solve that, you've just reinvented how broadcast TV works.
The MPAA and RIAA are just going to have to accept that they can no longer control our media. We have the tools and we have the technology to do it ourselves.
Only lawyers can try stop us now. And if they do, our countries will have so much civil disobedience and lack of respect for the law that the war on (some) drugs pales in significance.
Re:Prepare to hear from the MPAA (Score:2, Informative)
I think this stuff is great, but you can't compare it to video on demand. And if you saw "Peer-to-peer" and though "Kazaa," the I also agree with you; Kazaa is great, and peer-to-peer is the future. Your post doesn't belong in this story though.
Re:Prepare to hear from the MPAA (Score:3, Interesting)
Is it real video on demand, where every user can select a show and watch it that instant, or is it like most systems where the show is broadcast on, say 12 channels, with each one starting 5 mins appart? If the later, it's not VOD. With real VOD, you have a private stream from the provider, which requires a massive server.
Streaming P2P does not, it's like a broadcast.
We're at cross purposes here, methinks. The example that this article links to is a repeater p2p network, which is pretty neat. However, I was describing a system where it's fully on demand. Jeez, if it wasn't for the .avi file format having important data at the end of the file, you could almost do this now on the existing p2p apps. All you need is enough bandwidth to watch the video in realtime. You wouldn't be able to jump 30 minutes in if you wanted, but that's only because the current p2p clients haven't even thought of that yet.
Give it a year or two... ;-)
Your post doesn't belong in this story though
Well, what I'm thinking of isn't quite a p2p repeater as described in article, but it's similar and they share a few traits. For example, imagine I am watching an episode of the Simpsons on my node. That episode will be getting cached on my system, and thus will be available to other users from me. That concept is in keeping with the article. I'm just removing the need to have defined broadcasts, limiting when and what you can watch.
Re:Prepare to hear from the MPAA (Score:1)
Yes its real VOD (Score:1)
Re:Prepare to hear from the MPAA (Score:1)
Yes, it is real VOD. Yes, each user gets a private stream to control and yes we do have massive servers. Actually they only take up about 4 racks.
TWC will be releasing DHCTs with PVR built in next year but we will be phasing this out for a central storage method. Yes, more servers and arrays then you can shake a finger out. They will be caching about 40 channels for a rolling 48 hours to start and then move up to more. You will be able to "save" programing for up to two weeks in a personail cache.
Currently TWC offers HBO, Cinemax, TMC, Showtime, Adult. Plus for free
Wow, what a future! (Score:1, Funny)
Who would have ever thought?
I love technology!
Re:Wow, what a future! (Score:1)
Re:Wow, what a future! (Score:1)
He must really have wanted to test this. (Score:1, Funny)
Wow (Score:3, Funny)
No Support for Mac?? (Score:5, Insightful)
Mac Support Coming Soon! .... sortof .... (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah, I'm a little peeved at that too. I'm a geek and I don't get to enjoy this project because for some reason they've neglected the NATIVE PLATFORM for the streaming product they're using.
However, there IS a note [cmu.edu] stating that they are "explorting porting to the MacOS" I think they meant "exploring", and even if they do explore it, are they talking about Mac OS 9 or OSX?
I want to play :(
Re:No Support for Mac?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Chris
Re:No Support for Mac?? (Score:1)
Re:No Support for Mac?? (Score:1, Insightful)
It's the only codec wrapper that supports specific functionalities that enable such terrific, innovative projects to happen.
I'm sorry you don't know how to configure an operating system to best suit your needs, fuckball. There are more desktop Mac users than desktop Linux users - and by your logic Linux users make up only 1/100th of a percent of the World's computer users, yet make up 95% of the clueless fuckwads on the planet that think running a free OS on their $12.95 system makes them "31337!!!!!!!!!!"
Recompile Kernel? WTF? (Score:5, Informative)
You most certainly do *not* have to recompile your kernel to use QT in mplayer. Just build it, download the codecs .zip, and go
BTW, for debian users, here are the lines to install mplayer (WITH qt6 support):
echo "deb http://marillat.free.fr/ unstable main" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
apt-get update
apt-get install mplayer-686 mencoder-686 qt6codecs w32codecs
Re:Recompile Kernel? WTF? (Score:1, Funny)
I think you have to click an OK button too!
Good thing linux is 'taking over'
Re:Recompile Kernel? WTF? (Score:1)
urpmi.addmedia plf http://ftp.club-internet.fr/pub/linux/plf/cooker with hdlist.cz
Then just type:
urpmi mplayer
(and maybe "urpmi mplayer-gui mplayer-fonts mplayer-skins" for the nice looking interface and extra skins!)
Re:Quicktime video (Score:1)
I don't know what he's on about with the kernel, though... I've never had that problem with MPlayer.
Um yeah, there'll be mass-market demand... (Score:5, Funny)
We want
Re:Um yeah, there'll be mass-market demand... (Score:2)
Funny? Heh I'm serious guys. I don't care about Triumph of the Nerds. I don't care about the Sony Legged Robot Soccer Championshiip. But if they feed down porn, hell yeah I'm going to jump through some hoops to get it to work!
I'm not +1 Funny whoring here, I'm bored with the porn I've got and don't feel like running my credit card up higher!
Better Yet... (Score:1)
Re:Um yeah, there'll be mass-market demand... (Score:1, Funny)
MPAA raid! (Score:5, Funny)
In a shock move, the MPAA closed several University research departments this afternoon, in a series of commando-style raids.
"It's tantamount to theft" said Hilarity Rosen. "People sharing video and film clips like this without paying? It's immoral, unjust and illegal! Luckily, we caught the equivalent of 7,562 illegal viewers. (Well, we caught 17, but they all had VERY fast connections!)
In other news, Microsoft tommorow will announce a new DSigital Rights system for P2P video, called "PayNow!"
Re:MPAA raid! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:MPAA raid! (Score:1)
this was done years ago (Score:4, Informative)
their technology is already in such distribution systems as Virgin's internet radio broadcast [radiofreevirgin.com]
they do live re-multicast as well as on-demand.
they rock the casbah.
Re:this was done years ago (Score:1)
nice.
QuickTime? No thanks. (Score:1)
Re:QuickTime? No thanks. It Sucks. (Score:2, Insightful)
It's a damn shame too because I've been waiting for this idea to materialize for a while. Maybe the next bunch of folks who take a stab at it won't fuck it up.
pfft. qucktime. what a fucking waste.
Re:QuickTime? No thanks. It Sucks. (Score:1)
You've never used a Mac, have you?
Re:QuickTime? No thanks. It Sucks. (Score:1)
Re:QuickTime? No thanks. It Sucks. (Score:2)
Knowing how to install an OS and apps would go a long way toward solving your QuickTime problems. Of all of the media players on the market, QuickTime is the one that's caused me the least grief. I currently run it on Win2K, and I've used it under different flavors of Win9x. (I also have a Quadra 610 with MacOS 7.5.3, but I've never tried to track down an older version of QuickTime to install on it. I'm not sure how useful it'd be on such a slow machine.)
Re:Quicktime - no way jose (Score:1)
I quote: (Score:1)
QuickTime uses the standardized Real-Time Transport Protocol Suite (RTP/RTCP), which Real and Windows Media use proprietary protocols. It is unlikely that we will support Real or Windows Media in the near future.
Re:I quote: (Score:1)
Re:I quote: (Score:1)
So if it's an "open" protocol and video stream format, then there should be an alternative to installing Quicktime itself. Can you please identify one?
The last thing I need to do is sepnd my time fighting Quicktime for control over my own system's file associations.
.
Re:I quote: (Score:2)
Re:Quicktime - no way jose (Score:3, Informative)
What "open" system would you ahve in mind? Ogg Tarkin? Maybe it'll kick ass in 5 years. Until then, Quicktime is one of the best choices.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:BitTorrent? (Score:3, Informative)
Peer to peer in the geek community is an oxymoron. (Score:2, Funny)
Cool. (Score:2, Interesting)
Same here -- (Score:1)
Re:Same here -- (Score:1)
mplayer? (Score:1)
P2P Radio [peercast.org] seems to be working really well and I'm sure it's the same for video too. The RIAA is going to have a few headaches over these too... first they had unstoppable file-sharing and now they'll have same for live video streams and radio.
Re:mplayer? (Score:1)
"We are streaming some very cool video" (Score:4, Funny)
Which reminds me of an old, old joke: Nine out of ten girls in California are good-looking. The other one goes to Stanford.
Re:"We are streaming some very cool video" (Score:1)
Re:"We are streaming some very cool video" (Score:1)
So what are you looking for, a hot babe for a night or some geek-chick to support you for the next forty years?
And I can assure you, having inspected the current crop of cheerleaders at my 30th Homecoming Reunion, the babe quotient has gone way up since the early 70s.
Cool i-candy (Score:5, Informative)
Check out their overlay tree here [cmu.edu]. It shows how the current peer-to-peer tree of everyone viewing anything at that given point in time. Pretty cool.
No Video on Demand? (Score:4, Insightful)
Um, if I wanted to watch video on a schedule, I'd watch TV.
Re:No Video on Demand? (Score:2)
Our results were:
We also hope that you will participate in our next high-load performance test, the M*A*S*H series finale.
Re:No Video on Demand? (Score:2)
If you lived close enough to the transmitter to be able to receive the signal. No vision there boy.
Re:No Video on Demand? (Score:2)
Further, I can't surf /. on my TV, and I get to help some researchers tweak / improve multicast. Seems like multicast is the hot topic at ACM SIGCOMM today - which makes me think we are in "internet-delivered-video-on-demand" infancy.
Its funny, at the moment, Eric Schmidt is discussing his contemplation of the future, and multicast is not (yet) a part of his talk.
Standards! (Score:2)
Re:Standards! (Score:1)
Re:Standards! (Score:1)
The problem is H.263 is pretty bad quality/bit rate ratio, so we went with sorenson. Mpeg-4 we just recently got a broadcaster for and didn't feel comfortable enough with it to use for this demo.
Chris
Some answers.. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Some answers.. (Score:2)
(pretty please? We OS X lUsers want to play too)
Quick Feedback (Score:1)
The basics, Covad DSL, Windows, located in Chicago. The install went smooth. Both the ems client and quick time started when I clicked on the link. I did get the "download or open box". I choose open from current location.
The picture was somewhat choppy and the audio would cut out from time to time. As far as I could tell the ems client was receiving only. Maybe nobody likes me. Sniff.
Re:Some answers.. (Score:1)
We've broadcasted with H263/1 Sorenson1/3 we're sure it'd work with mpeg4 too (we bought a Mac just so we could broadcast mpeg4 in the future).
Right now we believe sorenson 3 gives us the best quality/bit rate.
Quite a Test (Score:2, Funny)
Is this the first case of someone actually ASKING to be Slashdotted? I can't think of a better stress test...
Re:Quite a Test (Score:2, Interesting)
The best method (Score:1)
Plead for Money (Score:3, Informative)
How annoying... they should've mentioned this.
Re:Plead for Money (Score:1)
Tell M$! (Score:2)
Simple hack around (Score:2)
Oxymoron (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Oxymoron (Score:1)
why can't you do one->many without infrastructure (p2p)?
Chris
Re:Oxymoron (Score:2)
But when you already have the possibility for multicast, why not just add something to that, to ensure transmission in case of lost packages, like asking a host closer to the sender if it has the required data.
Graph of the Slashdot Effect (Score:2, Informative)
Didn't read the article (Score:2)
How is this different from video teleconferencing software like CU-SeeMe, which has been around for about 8 years now?
Interesting ... (Score:4, Funny)
Step 1. Release story on highly visited website that will cause geeks to download before even realizing the trojan horse they have installed.
Step 2. Get geeks to keep player on by telling them they will help the greater good of p2p video streaming.
Step 3. When over 20,000 active nodes are on system begin largest DoS attack ever on MPAA and RIAA that will strike fear into the masses.
Step 4. Profit^H^H^H^H^H^H Post story on slashdot about how slashdot users defeated the evil of the internet without even knowing it.
It may seem highly unlikely, but shouldn't these freekin college kids be studying for finals??? Anyone else think this is an "odd" type of program??
I could be wrong and I probably am, but it's a hypothetical that could be very true ...
Re:Interesting ... (Score:1, Funny)
Step 6. Post a witty list of 'steps' on
Step 7. Mock said poster with two additional steps that ridicule his post.
hey! (Score:2)
Audio P2P running (Score:2)
I am not using it personally as I am listening to the shoutcast streams on my Audiotron [turtlebeach.com], so I don't know if it's worth anything, but the idea is nice.
Need Testers? (Score:1)
So does this mean... (Score:2)
Content is Very Interesting (Score:1)
While I'm not a fan of Quicktime, the quality was berable and could be increased if you get some video people to do proper capturing, resizing, encoding etc. I and others would be more likely to use the p2p broadcasting if it featured.. say VP3 (supported through windows media player). But kudos for working on the video broadcast bandwidth problem, I look forward to seeing future revisions.
Unable to parse ESM config file (Score:2)
Oh well
Bandwidth, not connection type (Score:1)
This connection is for people capable of receiving 28.8Kbps. This connection is for people capable of receiving 56.6Kbps. This connection is for people capable of receiving 256Kbps. This connection is for people capable of receiving 512Kbps. This connection is for people capable of receiving 1Mbit. This connection is capable of receiving 2Mbps. This connection is capable of receiving 4Mbps, etc. You can get a 256Kbps DSL line, or you can get an 8Mbit DSL line. LOOOOTS of difference between the two, but still the same technology that would show up as "Cable Modem/DSL".
Last Post! (Score:1)
unlikely circumstance, so I'll just throw it away and write something
completely new.
-- Linus Torvalds
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...
Re:Unfortunately, this isn't a troll (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:Bandwidth Concern (Score:2, Informative)
For a total of 2800Kbps or 350KBps up + down
Hopefully 350KBps doesn't get you kicked out (of school?!?) if it does drop me a line
Chris