New Jersey Officially Limits G-Forces on Coasters 364
Well, NJ has (sadly) become the first state in the US at limiting G-Forces on roller coasters. The regulation calls for prohibition of forces greater than 5.6 that last longer than one second. NJ gave itself the right to regulate rides after an accident where two were killed from a malfunction, not excessive Gs. (A ride I rode once -- It's a kiddie-sized coaster, not what you'll find at Cedar Point, OH. The two killed were a seven year old and her mother.) This is also despite the lack of scientific evidence linking G forces to brain injury, and 320 million riders who turn out just fine every year. One brain-injury specialist interviewed said that you can exert 10 Gs just plopping into a chair, saying the state was "a little misguided."
Dangerous G Forces? (Score:3, Interesting)
Former Astronaut, "Buzz" Aldrin [buzzaldrin.com] seems to have suffered no ill effects or brain injury from high Gs [salon.com] from his flights and space shots.
Re:This is a step in the right direction (Score:3, Interesting)
Limits are needed and the industry brought it on themselves by (1) Making rollercoasters really fast and (2) Not addressing the issue of deaths.
If the rollercoaster manufacturers/theme parks had really addressed this issue to begin with, this might not have been as big a problem.
-Sean
six flags. . blech. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:G's (Score:2, Interesting)
I suspect that a lot of others come away from these rides with minor injuries like this and don't report it. This sort of legislation may seem silly until you experience an injury.
The G forces and heavy vibration on a coaster are nothing like those in car. (unless in a rollover!) Up till now, themeparks have "policed" themselves and I bet a lot of "minor" injuries reports are suppressed. I think that the head restrains and shock dampers on these things could be better designed.
I live in Ocean City (Score:5, Interesting)
While going up the incline, I heard several faint but audible metal pinging sounds; these were the sounds of metal ejecting from the machine. Once the roller coaster reached the peak I discovered something awful: the back right corner was not secure! During the whole ride the back bucked and jittered unnaturally, and I honestly thought the thing would come off. Afterward, I told everyone I could about my experience, though no one wants to listen to a hyperactive thirteen year old.
Though I love to be right, having a mother and her child die to prove it wasn't what I had in mind...though I did say for years the thing would kill people.
G-Forces my ass; that roller coaster is the same generic thing you see at every carnival. The owners of the park, the Gillian family, have been pocketing inspectors for years. The entire place reeks of disrepair and I refuse to set foot in it. I'm STILL waiting for the litigation against their greedy asses to surface, but they still drive all over town with their fancy cars and personalized parking places.
Re:So, whats the big deal (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I live in Ocean City (Score:3, Interesting)
- I rode the said roller coaster many times, though certainly not recently. The last time I rode it must have been 1993 or so, and that ride remains one of the most horrific and memorable events in my memory.
Maybe you just need to stop whining and not ride rollercoasters... wanna know the reason why? Read my next response.- While going up the incline, I heard several faint but audible metal pinging sounds; these were the sounds of metal ejecting from the machine. Once the roller coaster reached the peak I discovered something awful: the back right corner was not secure! During the whole ride the back bucked and jittered unnaturally, and I honestly thought the thing would come off. Afterward, I told everyone I could about my experience, though no one wants to listen to a hyperactive thirteen year old.
No one wanted to listen to a thirteen year old (in this case) because he was dead wrong. Rollercoasters are designed with an emergency "braking" system on the upwards incline to prevent it from falling back down uncontrollably if the chain breaks.Wooden roller coasters and even some others are pulled to their highest point by a chain much like a massive bike chain. The roller coaster (by the force of gravity) leaves the station, rolls over the chain, loses speed (comes into the incline), has a big tooth on the bottom that is hooked backwards (so it can go over the chain but hooks into it, when the chain's upward/forward rate is in excess of the coaster's), the coaster then rises to the highest point, breaks the crest and falls due to gravity and the ride begins.
Along many curves and the upward starting track are metal rungs, like a metal rung ladder but not very wide. The coaster has teeth/a tooth much like the one that grabs the chain... big spring loaded device that is continuously being pushed down... if the coaster starts slipping backwards, it grabs...
COASTER
/(tooth)
....
[_____________________]
the tooth because of it's angle rides over the springs, and sounds like (to a certain 13 year old) pieces of metal ejecting from the coaster... almost like metal pins/rivets being popped from it. What said 13 year old was really hearing was the spring pushing the tooth back down once it cleared a safety rung.
On many new coasters this is done using hydraulic brakes. Hydraulics hold the massive (long) brake pads apart, the coaster has fins on the bottom that slide between them. If there is a system failure or another reason to stop the coaster, the brakes close (with a V wedge opening on both sides that allow the fin to slide between and be "caught" due to friction).
Some coasters employ both. (Almost all employ this method to stop coasters when they enter the station).
People hysterically making retarted claims are what can often cause idiotic laws like this. Proper maintenance avoids most all such problems. The rest are due to "unavoidable" mechanical malfunctions that no amount of legislation can prevent.
-Rob
www.BinFeeds.com
The med students (Score:4, Interesting)
And you apparently neglected to read any of the news articles on this subject in the last three or four days. [cnn.com]
The students claim that the "bring it down" remark referred to a car that they were considering "bringing down" to florida from a northern state. They claim that either the waitress was mistaken or lied about the "september 13" comment she said she overheard. They claim that the conversation was completely normal and did not touch on terrorism, september 11, or september 13. There is absolutely no reason to believe they were joking about anything.
I think the waitress just misheard stuff. However, I do not blame the waitress either. I think she did the correct thing, given the circumstances. I do not blame the police, either, though it seems they overreacted a bit. They were just doing their jobs, in investigating and clearing a possible threat.
I blame the media outlets for gross negligence [miami.com]. How they have handled this has been really, really stupid.
I am perplexed and disappointed at the number of media outlets who printed or said outright that the medical students admitted to "joking" about september 11. It appears, at the moment, that that particular rumor is baseless, and APPEARS to originate (I am not 100% sure about this bit) from early reports stating that the waitress' daughter told reporters that "maybe [the students] were making a joke", which were then accidentally rereported by other news outlets as saying flat-out the students had joked about september 11. You will notice that no news outlets in the latter half of the weekend have said anything at all about "joking".
An extra note, becuase an AC asked for elaboration on cribcage's "being expelled" comment: The students have been asked, at least temporary, to leave their internships at the hospital they are studying at because the hospital had been recieving threats from people who didn't quite grasp everything the news told them (Can't find link at this moment, sorry, but there was an article on CNN.com this morning which now seems to be gone.) The hospital said they would consider allowing the students back in time, or if local law enforcement would agree to assist in providing extra protection from "patriotic" nutjobs.
Re:I live in Ocean City (Score:1, Interesting)
Here's my hypothesis: A space shuttle will eventually kill people in an explosion! (oops, that's happened already)
Okay... another one: A plane will kill people by engine failure... noo... that one's happened to... I have to pick something new.
A Ship will kill people.. er... an automobile!
No wait...
Any vehicle travelling at sufficient speed with moving parts has the potential to fail and cause a lethal wreck regardless of any safety precautions made. Statistically, there is no vehicle on earth that travels over 30 Mph that is 100% safe. (even 4-wheelers and bicycles at that speed are dangerous) Considering the millions of people that ride a particular rollercoaster over its lifetime, if one or two die because of it, we're talkin' a 0.000001% or less failure rate, which is pretty dern spiffy (excuse the technical phrases
Re:Wouldn't fear of litigation do the trick? (Score:4, Interesting)
I once went for a joy flight in a twin seater (side by side) ex Military Jet Provost (I think they were training jets). We were not using any anti-G suits and the pilot asked if I'd done any acrobatics before. I had in a prop plane, so I said yes.
We had done some groovy acrobatics including a loop which had required me to push blood back to my head to prevent passing out when he put us into another loop... I was having great fun!...
I can only think that it was a tighter loop (higher G's) than the first because I saw grey sooner than expected and the next thing I remember was...
hmm, I can't move my arms.... why can't I move my arms... and my legs they are shaking like crazy, how embarassing. Surely the pilot will be noticing, control yourself man!
Then as I came to, I could see (and feel) that the pilot had a hold of my (crossed) hands preventing me from stiking him in the head as my body spasmed in the seat.
The pilot said we had been doing just below 5 G's.
So... I don't think many people would want many G's sustained over more than a second (not in a virtical loop anyway).
I still enjoyed the flight though
My take on this.... (Score:5, Interesting)
1. They are regulating something that has a lower per capita injury/fatality rate than garden hoses, bowling, driving, walking up stairs, and really just about anything.
2. Given [1] this is obviously 'look good' legislation that, as usual, totally fails to see the cause of injuries.
3. By far the biggest cause of injuries is rider error. You know, people who don't "remain seated with your hands inside the car at all times". The next biggest cause (roughly 15%) is operator error. These type of accidents usually result because the operator did something stupid (IE was walking under the track while the coaster was running.) The other major cause of accidents (almost 5%) are caused by those with preexisting conditions (asthma, heart trouble, back trouble, etc). Again, essentially rider error, as the signs warn quite clearly that those with preexisting medical conditions should not ride.
4. Even assuming g forces are a danger (I disagree, but just for the sake of argument...), NJ is looking at it in the wrong way. Based on a large body of anecdotal evidence (I've ridden 153 coasters at 52 diffirent parks, total # of rides probably close to 5000), the only thing that ever causes discomfort are those hideous over the sholder restraints (Sometimes referred to as 'horsecollars'. These restraints let your HEAD do all the stopping under any sort of lateral acceleration. Ever since Karl Bacon of Arrow Dynamics came up with the idea in the early '70's, they have been causing headaches everywhere they are installed. Luckily, some companies are seeing the light. Schwarzkopf GMBH (one of the dominant builders of early looping rides) always used simple lapbars, and those ride like a dream. Premier Rides, maker of magnetically launched rides, has recently retrofitted almost all their rides with lapbars. Those have now gone from a boxing simulator to being world class rides.
Made that way! (Score:3, Interesting)
You need to study roller coaster design a little more. Many roller coasters are designed to look and feel like they are going to fall apart at any moment. I've ridden those that are, and those that are not. I avoid the roller coasters that feel soild becuase they are no fun. (In general the soild roller coasters ahve to mkae up for the lack of fun by going upside down, while the "weak" ones are fun with much tamer rides)
Engineers are tricky, those roller coasters are still plenty safe, and inspectors are not often bought. For that matter the operators know that they need to appear to be running a minimal maintance operation, but if that actucally running minimal maintance is risking death, and they cannot afford those lawsuits. (Okay, so the insurance company might force it in some cases, but the result is the same: a raide that feels unsafe while still perfectly safe)
Re:A Chair?? (Score:3, Interesting)
If you get a transient 10-g load by plopping into your chair, what do you suppose you incurr when you get banged around in the coaster?
I don't think you get brain damage; but I also think that you should be able to build an exciting coaster without having excessive g-loads. Sustained loads of 4-5 g's can be very exciting.
They are in airplanes.
Re:I live in Ocean City (Score:2, Interesting)