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Slashback: Disclosure, Maricopa, Telecoms 376

Posted by timothy from the ants-are-everywhere dept.
Slashback tonight with another round of updates and errata regarding recent Slashdot stories. Read on for more on domain slamming, the process behind fixing and revealing the recent OpenSSH vulnerability, early photography, and a special note for residents of Maricopa County, Arizona.

Quick work by smart people. ciaweb writes "The OpenSSH group has revised its security advisory about the recent OpenSSH vulnerabilities. In it, they describe their decision-making process for releasing the bug information. It is interesting to contrast their procedure, which appears designed to maximize user protection, against Microsoft's, which appears to maximize Microsoft's protection."

Pardon me, sir, would you mind if I SLAMMED THIS HAMMER ON YOUR FINGERS?! D0wnsp0ut writes "I thumbed through my mail today and found what appeared to be a renewal notice for my domain. This one came from "Domain Registry of America." Verisign attempted something similar back in March and Bulkregister.com fought back and won an injunction, against the mailings. So watch out if your domain is getting close to expiring. I talked to my registrar (Register.com) and they're aware of it.
I'll scan the letter but have no place to post the pictures. Can anyone lend some bandwidth?"

Half the world has never eaten a Krispy Kreme donut, either. cshirky writes "I've just written an essay on the phrase ' Half the world has never made a phone call'. It's more 'voice telephony-y' than the usual telecom stories here, but after seeing the interest in media and the market that surfaced during my /. interview, I thought it might be of some interest."

Please stop sending my money to Redmond, OK? TrumpetPower! writes "All that brouhaha over Maricopa County's policy prohibiting companies or persons convicted of antitrust violations has had an effect. I just received the following note announcing a public forum scheduled for this coming Monday.

You recently inquired about the County's use of Microsoft products and the manner in which we license their software. We appreciate your interest in the County's technology plans. To provide a forum in which to discuss our technology direction and address any questions you may have, we will have Information Technology staff members available to meet with citizens at 8:30 am on Monday July 8th. The meeting location will be the County Administration Building at 301 W. Jefferson in Suite 420. Please RSVP your attendance so we can ensure that adequate facilities are available for the meeting.

Thank you for your inquiry,
Paul Allsing
Deputy CIO
Maricopa County
301 W Jefferson, Suite 420
Phoenix, AZ 85003"

Ah, but what about the first annoying family photographer? 7h3_B055 writes: "Contrary to this article on Slashdot claiming the first photograph was created in 1826, much evidence is pointing to the fact that the Shroud of Turin may have been an earlier example (substantially earlier) of photography using ingredients as basic as egg-white for treating cloth (the photopaper) and urine for developing it. The camera itself could have been a simple box with a hole in it and the exposure time would have been lengthy."

Of course, there are a lot of theories about the Shroud of Turin, and a google search is likely to intrigue you for days.
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Slashback: Disclosure, Maricopa, Telecoms More

Slashback: Disclosure, Maricopa, Telecoms

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  • if i were a county office, (Score:5, Funny)

    by RumGunner ( 457733 ) on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @08:05PM (#3811562) Homepage
    i certainly wouldn't have my offices in suite 420.

    or maybe i would.
    • Well it is a county in Arizona... the state with the only openly Pro-Pot representative that I know. It certainly wouldn't work in PA, they're still discussing whether the Amish should be required to put little orange triangles on the back of their buggies.

      If I offended any other Pro-Pot politicians, I'm sorry.
      If I offended any Amish people, what the heck are you doing reading this? Shame on you, Brother Jebbediah!
  • Yeah, they'll have all of their IT guys there saying, "Yes, it is policy to not purchase from those in an Anti-trust suit.", "Yes, we know there are alternatives.", "Yes, *nix is one of those alternatives, but unfortunately we all have MSCE certifications and dunno wtf to do with a machines that runs *nix, and we like our jobs."

    Then questions will be directed to their managers, who will respond with, "No, we don't know what *nix systems are. Hell we don't even know what MSCE means, but everyone else was hiring them so we thought we should too.", "No, my machine is never stable for more than 24 hrs, and I don't know the difference between 95, 98, ME, XP, 2000, but they all have a pretty blue screen sometimes, right before I hit the reset button, so they must all be the same, right?"

    --Huck

    • Re:Maricopa County (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Caradoc ( 15903 ) on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @08:13PM (#3811611) Homepage
      I live in Maricopa County, and I'm planning on going to that meeting.

      I'll be providing a full report afterwards.

      This could be interesting, to say the least.
      • Thank you. Put that somewhere, I think that Monday is about the only day I can't go - I'll be on a plane coming back to Phoenix... So, sad, so sad...
      • *deep breath*
        good dog, you get a cookie. bring 20 of your closest geek friends, and have them sit in pairs around the audience(if it's big enough.)
        write out a list of questions beforehand.
        ask a question, and when they reply with a non-answer, have everyone do the whispering "we don't like what he just said" thing.
        Make sure When you are called on, state your name and your job(only if it's tech related, compUSA don't count). Say that' you've been following the issues on technical sites(don't mention slashdot by name). Don't state your linux enthusiasm. when talking about "other" choices mention QNX, BSD, Macintosh, and (THEN) linux.

        Bring a printout of information to read off. Bring flyers to distribute. be Informed. Don't do the "micro$oft Sux0rs!". This is about choosing the best OS, not about screwing microsoft(well...).Try to be clear and consise. get EVERYone you know to go, not just Geeks. The more the merrier. Bribe them to go if you must. Get your local CS and law professors, computer teachers, etc to offer extra credit to any summer class students they have. Local Youth Groups. Bo/girlscouts. Clerk from the local store. Get local gamers to go. get your Parents. Convince the local lawyers They'll be able to make a killing on the resulting lawsuits. Don't outright lie, just let people know that this *IS* important. Ask local stores if you can post a flyers. Get premissions from the cops if you have to and chalk the sidewalks(legal in some areas, not in others). Call up local businesses and talk to their system admins. get them to go.

        Invite MCSE's. If they show up, one of 3 things will happen
        1). they'll realize it time to learn something new.
        2). They'll try to put forth an argument how they'll have to learn new job skills and it would be bad. If that's the case pull a "I know COBOL- should we force everyone to go back to that?"
        3).They'll actually give some insight to the benefits of microsoft.(this one is largly theoretical)

        If they don't want to go, Give them 3 examples of how microsoft has SHAFTED consumers(I can't think of any besides the bsa/school system fiasco). It's best to tell them with flyer in hand. let them know that Apathy is gonna let microsoft get away with worse, and it's already evident in the court case. this is their chance to stand up and make a difference. Once their there, make sure you don't lose them. Use small words, and east definitions. Get them involved. Use the Jargon file definitions. Include URL's of all references. Point them to the EFF if it's needed.

        Perhaps offer to help the county set up a webpage for the people who are there to find out more. Offer your services. Try to come off as "this is a serious situation and it warrants everyones attention. Thank you for listening."
        This literally has the chance to change the world...

        And FINALLY....Don't use The Register as a source:)

        /me wipes a tear from his eye
      • Well, after about two hours (8:30AM to 10:30AM) I left the meeting with a much better feeling about my local County government - at least in the IT/IS groups.

        Linden Thatcher, the CIO for Maricopa County, struck me as quite literate in the issues that were raised.

        About 5% of the County IT/IS budget goes to Microsoft products, a vast majority of those being the 12,000 desktops they support. According to the statements Mr. Thatcher made, most of their "server-side" applications run on a mix of HP-UX and System V, with some apps running on Websphere.

        There are currently a couple of internal projects running Linux/Apache to provide document publishing.

        Mr. Thatcher has read "Ender's Game," and met Orson Scott Card (thank goodness we've got SOMEONE in the hierarchy who is not only literate, but READS!)

        The Phoenix Linux Users Group people who showed up were very polite, and there was only one person in the crowd who seemed to be almost violently "anti-Microsoft."

        Good meeting.

        I'm posting here because the news submission got rejected...
    • First, the users. You have no idea how whiny users can be about what they are used to using. Example: receantly a few computers using Eudora started having weird problems with e-mail. We still haven't nailed it down yet. Well Outlook Express (or Netscape Mail) on the same system works just fine. It's not an account problem, not a connection problem and we can't find a settings problem. Sooooo, the most logical conclusion is just to go over to another mailer. After all they are all REALLY similar, and the others aren't ad sponsored like Eudora. Nope, the users will ahve none of it. They like Eudora and refuse to use another mailer, even if they basically are the same thing.

      Now some of you might say that you should just replace the users. Well, this just isn't really possable. With the IT staff, you can do this. YOu can tell them "It's your job to do the ocmputers, we want you to do UNIX computers. Learn how or we replace you". IF they fail to learn, you will actually be able to find replacements for them that can handle UNIX. However this is usually not the case with other employees. If you go and find a bunch of good lawyers, they are proabably all set on the software they use and not felxable about changing (they ones I've know are this way). Well, you won't get much of anywhere trying to force them to use something they don't know/like. And replacing them won't do any good since the replacements are likely to be the same way.

      Now even if you can get all your users to go along with this changeover, you then have the expense of retraining. We can argue till the cows come home about total cost of ownership and such and how much UNIX would save, fact is retraining the staff will be EXPENSIVE and there will be a large loss of productivity during the transition. This will be hard to justify to no technical beancounters who see it is a totally unnecessary expense.

      Then there is the problem of custom apps. Many bussinesses and government entites have custom software they need to use. This is often not cross platform. Well this then means that this software has to be rewritten and broght ot a new platform. Again, expensive and time consuming.

      So the problem is that you are trying to do something not only that a flunkie IT staff may not be prepared to handle but that is going to be very unpopular, very time consuming and masively expensive as well as a productivity hit. Well, this is hard as hell to justify and to push through. Espcially the expense part. Managers shy away form large, upfront costs even if it means saving over the long run. You have to work hard to convince them it really will be a money saver, because if they are wrong about it, it's their ass.

      Also there are some hidden costs with things like this. PEople are quick to point out that Linux is free and doesn't crash as much as Windows. However the problem is, as you mentioned, you need better tech staff to make it work. MCSE flunkies will not cut it. Well better people cost more money. In an orginazaition with a few UNIX and WIndows servers and lots of Windows desktops you can get away with a couple knowledgable staff and then a bunch of people with a minimal (But still mroe than the users) tehcnica knowledge to deal with little problems. Well if you tried to go all Linux you'd need to dump all those people and get a bunch of savvy admins. This costs more money.

      At any rate, a total Linux/UNIX conversion of a lrage instution or bussiness is possable, but can be very, very difficult.
    • Does the Anti-trust suit come with two pair of Anti-trust pants?

      Sorry, terrible pun. Couldn't resist. Preparing for downward mod spiral...
  • What I want to know is, how can OpenBSD claim there have been no vulnerabilities in a default install in years when there have been so many coming out recently? Does the default install not include any network support or what? If OpenSSH is enabled by default, what kind of server OS is that?
    • OpenBSD simply closes off most services by default, meaning any holes in that service that are found arent classified as "vulnerabilities in a default install." For example, telnetd is not running by default. If a hole is found in telnetd, then it doesnt affect OBSD's claim as it's not a default-enabled service. This is despite the fact taht OBSD comes with telnetd.

      For the services they do install by default, they mostly use older versions instead of the latest-up-to-date version. This gives the software a chance to mature, weed itself of security holes, and gives oppurtunity for OBSD developers to audit the code themselves before placing it into the default install.

      Now as for OpenSSH, I dont know if it was an older version, as OpenSSH is written by the OBSD team. I would suspect that OSSH has had the flaw for some time (like the vast majority of flaws do), just not found until the past few weeks.
      • Read the relevant advisories, or subscribe to bugtraq, before submiting your drivel to slashdot.

        OpenBSD has changed it's tagline to "One remote hole in the default install, in nearly 6 years".

        The two security holes were introduced somewhat recently (OpenSSH version 2.3.1 for the PAMAuthenticationViaKbdInt bug, and version 2.9.9 for the challenge-response bug).

        How hard is it to go to http://openbsd.org to check for yourself?

        • Re:OpenSSH Vulnerabilities (Score:4, Insightful)

          by jeffy124 ( 453342 ) on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @09:04PM (#3811817) Homepage Journal
          I am well aware of the recent problems, and made no reference to the change in their claim, so why bring it up?

          Also, 2.3.1 (the earliest version vulnerable to the recently found problems) was released in 1998. 1998 is not 2002. So my suspicion that the bug was actually in the software for several years was correct. It wasn't until the past few weeks that it was found and patched. It was also yesterday that GOBBLES posted an exploit in an attachment called sshutup-theo.tar.gz. Yes, there was that extra s there.

          FWIW, there is a often-referred to BugTraq posting with a subject along the following lines: "Wu-FTP, providing remote root since 1994." The post was made during the year 2000.

          Hence, I wouldnt call my post "drivel"
        • OpenBSD has changed it's tagline to "One remote hole in the default install, in nearly 6 years".

          The two security holes were introduced somewhat recently (OpenSSH version 2.3.1 for the PAMAuthenticationViaKbdInt bug, and version 2.9.9 for the challenge-response bug).

          Shouldn't that say TWO remote holes in the default install, then? Just because they were fixed at once doesn't mean that they're one hole.

    • That's how it should be (Score:5, Insightful)

      by hayden ( 9724 ) on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @08:50PM (#3811769)
      Does the default install not include any network support or what?
      Yes it has network support but there is very little turned on which is how it should be. If an OS comes locked down by default then you know exactly what is running as you must have started it (actually, add a "should" to that sentence). So when an advisory comes out for program foo even the dullest sysadmin can think "Did I enable that?" and conclude "Am I vulnerable?"
      If OpenSSH is enabled by default, what kind of server OS is that?
      One that can be administered remotely?

  • Domain Registery of America Letter (Score:5, Informative)

    by Masem ( 1171 ) on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @08:09PM (#3811591)
    I've gotten both the Verisign and the DRA letter, and after reading both in light of the Veresign suit, the DRA letter is VERY clear that submitting the form back to them will switch your registry to them; this is printed on the front of the letter in the same type as the rest of the page. In the Verisign case, the transfer statement was printed on the back of the letter in fine print (with no indication there was something on the back). While somewhat tacky, I don't think DRA is in the wrong here, compared to Verisign.
    • I don't think DRA is in the wrong here

      Actually, I think they very well may be. Where did they get the address to send the advertisement to? I'm assuming the same place they got the expiration information - whois.

      Most whois servers have a notice like the following, I've noticed:

      "Any use of this data for any other purpose, including, but not limited to, allowing or making possible dissemination or collection of this data in part or in its entirety for any purpose, such as the transmission of unsolicited advertising and solicitations, is expressly forbidden without the prior written permission of (Registrar). By submitting an inquiry, you agree to these terms of usage and limitations of warranty."

      My registrar's whois database has this notice. I got one of verisign's sleazy notes as well (though I knew what it was, at least.) If I get one from DRA, I'll be complaining...

      • Actually, you're wrong. I know exactly where they got the info, they got it from the WHOIS database, but you have nothing to complain about. You see

        "ICANN contracts mandate each Registrar to sell bulk whois data to anyone."

        Most registrar don't tell you this because if they did, hey, they'd lose money right? But if you use a decent registrar or read the ICANN agreement you'd know it. You can also opt out of it. Most sleazy registrar require you to write in or otherwise take a stupid amount of time todo it. Thats why I like gandi.net they're run out of france and have a big paragraph explaining it and radio buttons where the default is opt-out
  • <blockquote><i>o snapshot of telephone penetration matters, because the issue is not amount but rate. If you care about the digital divide, and you believe that access to communications can help poor countries to grow, then pontificating about who has or hasn't made a phone call is worse than a waste of time, it actively distorts your view of the possible solutions because it emphasizes a statist attitude. </i></blockquote>

    Wrong: it doesn't imply hopelessness, but rather encourages us to take action to change. Do you think that Kofi Annan wants us to throw up our hands and not care about the rate of improvement? No! By recognizing the magnitude of the problem, we can realize how important <i>more</i> improvement is. Just because things are improving doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about the huge inequalities that exist.

  • Shroud evidence: Jesus underwent nuclear fission (Score:5, Informative)

    by ashitaka ( 27544 ) on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @08:15PM (#3811619) Homepage
    From the linked evidence website...

    One theory is that Jesus became pure energy and the radiation burned the image into the cloth. This isn't a far fetched theory really. We don't know how He resurrected. As the theory suggests, He could have transformed into a form of energy. Einstein's famous equation E=mc2 tells that matter can become pure energy. In fact this is the same concept of an atom bomb - matter becoming pure energy using radioactive material as a catalyst.

    This is evidence???????

  • From that crucifixion photography link, the site shows us a very modern, very clear, very unrealistic (in my opinion) photo of an actual crucified foot [pixelworks.com.ph] (near the bottom of the page). Is it just me, or does that just look too nice and neat with carefully arranged (but not too messy) bright red blood? Thankfully I'm no expert on the subject, but it just looks so 'perfect'. Nice clean, attractive foot, nice rustic piece of timber (artistically angled for composition), artsy clouds in the background, carefully spread bloodflow on feet and wood, etc.

    One obviously questionable assertion that they try to pass off in the details makes for a whole site of suspicion.
    • So did he have any broken bones, or not?

      In "Carrying the cross" --
      Christ's broken nose is attributed to the impact of his face hitting the ground as he fell while carrying the cross.

      In "Death" --
      The Gospel of John concludes that paragraph saying, "this was done so that scripture would be fulfilled that not one bone of His body be broken." And indeed, throughout the entire passion of Jesus, despite the extraordinary atrocities done to him, not one of his bones were broken.

      I's like to touch on a point not raised by the Shroud site. It stands to reason that Jesus was circumcised, being Jewish. so, when he rose to heaven, did he leave his foreskin behind?
      • Hehe!

        Naturally, the power and popularity of relics was dependent upon the saintliness of the original "owner." The ultimate source of relics, of course, was Jesus himself. But there was just one problem: it is clear in the New Testament that after his resurrection, Jesus was "carried up to Heaven." Thus, there just wasn't any possibility of a church acquiring Jesus' head or foot, as happened with various saints. For the most part, the only Jesus relics available were things like his crown of thorns, his robe, his sandals, or even pieces of the "True Cross."

        But then some astute theologian - or was it a businessman? - realized that not all of Jesus' body could have been actually transported up to Heaven. Jesus was, after all, a faithful Jew, and as such, he would have been circumcised like every other boy. So where was his foreskin? Whatever happened to that bit of divine flesh?

        And thus began a search for a very odd "Holy Grail" which resulted in not one, but up to a dozen different holy foreskins, each competing to be the genuine article. Of course, one presumes that they could not all be genuine and I am not aware of anyone who tried to argue that the unusual bounty was a miracle akin to the loaves and fishes.

        http://atheism.about.com/library/weekly/aa051000 b. htm

      • nose bone? (Score:2, Interesting)

        by timothy ( 36799 )
        isn't the nose only cartilaginous, rather than true bone?

        Seems like a technicality either way, but still ;)

        My mom's nose was once broken by (someone else's) ski pole. They didn't even stop to apologize, which did not please her.

        Best book I've read on the SoT is the one by (iirc) John Heller, quoted on some of the sites I've seen today ...

        timothy

      • did he leave his foreskin behind?

        Sure. Along with baby teeth and pounds of dead skin, shed hair, and toenail clippings.

        Not to mention countless gallons of solid and liquid waste.

  • I am *truly* sorry about that... (Score:5, Funny)

    by realgone ( 147744 ) on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @08:39PM (#3811726)
    The shroud article's paraphrase of one Dr. Nicholas Allen:
    He said all one had to do was suspend a corpse for three to four days in sunlight.
    I'd like to formally apologize to Sears Photo Studio [searsportrait.com] for ever having complained while sitting through those family portraits back in the '70s. In retrospect, you were surprisingly gentle with me.

  • Vermeer: First Photographer (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sjbrown ( 9382 ) on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @09:00PM (#3811802) Homepage
    ...or perhaps first "camera"

    I recently saw a TV segment about research showing that he quite likely projected an image onto canvas using a lens, then painted or sketched the projected image.

    He probably wasn't the inventor of the technique. I believe it was called a 'camera obscura'.

    Just found a link, thanks to Google:
    Vermeer's Camera [vermeerscamera.co.uk]
    • Research deos show that it is very likely that Vermeer used the camera obscura to obtain an image. He would be in a darkened room with an image projected on to the canvas. On some of his pictures details are "out of focus". However, you can hardly call what he did a photograph as all he did was use the camera obscura to obtain the basis for a painting. Had he chemically burned the image onto the canvas then you may have a case for an early photograph.

  • Detailed analysis of the exploit? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by MrHat ( 102062 ) on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @09:19PM (#3811858)
    Disclaimer: I don't want to know this so I can run around and r00t a bunch of machines. I'm genuinely interested, since the flaw wasn't immediately apparent to me when I glanced at the patch a few days ago.

    With that said - does anyone have an analysis/description of where in the source the overflow was actually exploitable? I followed the auth_chall2.c call path fairly far, and didn't manage to find where nresp > 100 would actually overflow. It doesn't seem to be exploitable in the xmalloc() immediately following the patch, unless I really missed something. I didn't trace into openssl, so if it's an interaction between the two libraries, I wouldn't have hit it.

    Hints, pointers, source snippets? All are appreciated. :)
    • here's some code that was posted to bugtraq:

      sshutup-theo.tar.gz [securityfocus.com]

      See here [securityfocus.com] for the corresponding message.

    • Re:Detailed analysis of the exploit? (Score:5, Informative)

      by BJH ( 11355 ) on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @10:43PM (#3812075)
      My take on the problem (no guarantees, this may make you bald, blind and impotent, etc. etc.).

      The problem lies with the xmalloc line in:

      if (nresp > 0) {
      response = xmalloc(nresp * sizeof(char*));
      for (i=0; i < nresp; i++)
      response[i] = packet_get_string(NULL);
      }

      Basically, the sizeof(char*) will return 4 on a normal x86 machine... which means that if nresp is greater than one-fourth of 0xffffffff (UINT_MAX), i.e. over 0x4000000, then you overflow xmalloc(), which is just a wrapper function for standard malloc().

  • I know I can't be the only who thought of it (Score:4, Funny)

    by aTMsA ( 188604 ) on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @09:24PM (#3811872)
    I think the first thing(s) i would try to clone if i could would be anything resembling human DNA in the shroud. It would be hilarious if some blond/black chinese guy(or even girl) come out of the clonation!

  • SuSE on the OpenSSH Vulnerability. (Score:5, Informative)

    by AgTiger ( 458268 ) on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @09:33PM (#3811903) Homepage
    Anyone who runs SuSE Linux from version 6.4 through version 8.0 inclusive may be interested in this.

    SuSE's "SuSE-Security-Announce" mailing list released this [suse.com] post today regarding their response to the OpenSSH vulnerability. It contains a ton of information, and FTP links to update your OpenSSH packages for the aforementioned versions of SuSE's distribution.

  • I talked to my registrar (Register.com) and they're aware of it.

    That's interesting, I have a letter from Register.com asking me if I want to extend my domain name term. But my registrar is easyDNS.com.

    I'm not kidding, I have it right here.

  • No it is pretty clear the shroud of turin was constructed in a similar (but more complicated) manner as rubbing a pencil over a sheet of paper held on top of a credit card. In other words they put the shroud on top of some statue and then imprinted that on the shroud.

    The only reason someone would claim the shroud was a photograph is because it is a negative image like negatives are. In no way shape or form was a picture taken involving pinhole cameras and the like. I mean good photosensitive materials were a long way in coming still.

  • Maricopa going open source (or whatever) (Score:4, Informative)

    by The Bungi ( 221687 ) <thebungi@gmail.com> on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @11:06PM (#3812156) Homepage
    For all of you Linux/BSD advocates that are obviously droooling over this oh-so-cool-good-vs-evil "stuggle"... I can categorically assure everyone that this will never happen. Never.

    As someone who regularly consults at the county , city and AZ state agency level, I hate to inform ya'll that this is very much a Microsoft kinda town. Yep, you heard it here first.

    Further, Maricopa county is small potatoes when compared to the state and city agencies/IT budgets. Scottsdale's (one of the valley's cities) CIO probably has four times the dough than the dude that runs the county's boxen. Not to mention Phoenix city proper. And Tempe, Chandler, Mesa, etc. etc. Oh, and the state government.

    And of course, government agencies are the least prepared to transition an existing employee base to a brand new technology paradigm, regardless of the cost benefits this might theoretically bring (or how supposedly easy it is to switch to Linux/KDE/OSS Office suite).

    Sorry, I had to break the news.

    • secerla counties in California would fit the description you gave, but about 4 years ago they switched to BSD and or Linux. The transition was as smooth as any windows upgrade. "Retraining" took almost no time.
      Considering how far the UI has come, its only got to be easier to migrate.
      As soon as someone with political power ralizes its there ass if MS screws up, the tend to rethink things.
      What do you think would happen if the BSA showed up at the mayor's office to check there lisences?

  • Phoenix residents-- this is your chance... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by VValdo ( 10446 ) on Tuesday July 02, 2002 @11:22PM (#3812193)
    If you live in the Phoenix Metro area, this is your big chance to make a great impression, show interest in your local government, and learn something too -- I mean, this is great-- the people who make important decisions about the county's technology are going to be LISTENING to you-- aside from the inevitable rips on Microsoft (easy to do), be sure to play up the cost-benefits and reliability of Linux and *bsd as viable alternatives. Have some printed materials (or CD-ROMs?) to give out.

    If you seem too fanatical or "out there", you may scare them off-- it's easy to dismiss a lunatic, even when they're right. So please don't dress like Obiwan ;) A well-thought out, reasoned discussion about the benefits of open source software may make a tremendous difference if you can reach the right people and they are truly open to change.

    Good luck everyone! Let us know how it works out Monday! Someone call the Arizona Republic [arizonarepublic.com] and New Times [phoenixnewtimes.com]. (And be on the lookout for a counter-offensive from Microsoft).

    W

  • Early photography (Score:4, Funny)

    by rnturn ( 11092 ) on Wednesday July 03, 2002 @01:12AM (#3812455)
    ``the Shroud of Turin may have been an earlier example (substantially earlier) of photography using ingredients as basic as egg-white for treating cloth (the photopaper) and urine for developing it.''

    Now while I'm wondering how someone decided that oysters were edible, I can wonder how someone figured out 2000 years ago that urinating on an egg-white soaked cloth would produce an recognizable image. I know that things like gun cotton and Bakelite were discovered by accident but this egg-white thing I'm finding a bit hard to believe. But I would sure like to see a Mel Brooks bit on that historic moment.

  • Krispy Kreme (Score:2, Funny)

    by BlueFall ( 141123 )
    Half the world has never eaten a Krispy Kreme donut.

    Is that by weight? ;-)
  • I'm glad there's going to be a hearing (re: Maricopa) but I believe that everyone there will simply be clarified on the spirit of that law, which is to give the County a means to unilaterally sever a contract IF THEY WANT TO, and establishes some reasonsble grounds to do so, probably limited by what's appropriate to the State constitution.

    I don't read the statute as a binding mandate on the county to stop doing business with a contractor, but rather, as an escape valve that they may exercise if they so choose.

    I suspect that everybody who shows up Monday will be told as much, if the matter is even addressed. I'll try to be there...

  • Hello, I am a member of PLUG and have RSVP'd for the meeting and was going to post a request to the slashdot community for documentation on successful conversions from M$ to Linux, including articles or links to sites, so I can go armed with some facts on government conversions including military, local, state, federal, school systems (many of our school systems in AZ use the same rules for contractors as the county does), etc. For instance, about those schools in the northwest that converted their labs recently. thanks, just reply to this thread and i will keep an eye out for it, or email me at the above address.
  • as an Austinite, it's my duty to profess the truth: Round Rock donuts are better.
    And now, back to your regularly scheduled surfing...
    -l
  • You recently inquired about the County's use of Microsoft products and the manner in which we license their software.

    You got my ass raked over the coals by the Board of Supervisors. Goddamned Linonuts.

    We appreciate your interest in the County's technology plans.

    I'm damned tired of you taxpayers poking your nose into how I waste, errr I mean spend, your money. If you'd all just die now, it would make my career that much easier.

    To provide a forum in which to discuss our technology direction and address any questions you may have, we will have Information Technology staff members available to meet with citizens at 8:30 am on Monday July 8th.

    I'm gonna have enough MCSEs at that meeting to outnumber you commie hippy Linonuts two-to-one. And Microsoft plans on having every OEM and VAR in the valley there too.

    Please RSVP your attendance so we can ensure that adequate facilities are available for the meeting.

    I'm making sure that most of the audience will be Microsoft shills, and the place will be so crowded by sunrise you won't even get inside. There'll be enough of us make you look pretty stupid if this gets on TV. But it probably won't.

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