Gates Testifies in Antitrust Suit

teamhasnoi writes "Bill Gates is testifying today in the Microsoft antitrust case. Here's the 5 page executive summary (pdf) and here's the 163-page full version (1.1 MB pdf). Bill waxes on about the early days, talks about .NET, xml, and why Microsoft should not be penalized for its role as 800 lb. Gorilla. (Developers, Developers, Developers)" Other readers point to the BBC story on Gates' testimony, as well as a similar one at Yahoo!.

It's like Darth Vader all over again

[stagmeister]

It seems to me that Gates is like the big DV in many ways -- not only does he preach the dark side, but he strives to build an Empire. As Vader says in The Empire Strikes Back, "Join me, and together we can end this distructive conflict." Basically, what I'm saying is that it's pretty obvious what Microsoft's goal is -- not necessarily to make tons of money, but to make a whole computing system under which it is very easy for developers and users a like to work and play. Now, making lots of $$ is a side-issue, but Gates also seems to think that the only way to get people to work together and come up with something that is good is to take them all over, business-wise, so that they have to use MS technologies. I've developed some stuff with a couple of people who used to work for MS (as developers, not corporate paper-pushers), and what they all tell me is that MS has high lofty goals, and that actually most of the bugs in software don't come out of bad coding, but bad communication between the coders, as some people may create a class to do X and the creators of software Y use it, but then the API of X is changed and then Y is screwed up. Either way, I think that Gates' view, like Vader's, that you need to create an empire and then order will come, is wrong. I think that OSS is the way to go and that that's the best way to get people to work together -- to share. Gates'll probably shoot himself in the foot through cross-examination anyway.

Re: Why Bother

[Warped-Reality]

Heres how I feel:
DON'T use linux in the "average joe-shmoe desktop environment". At least not in the conventional way.

Instead, get a project going to make an OS _targeted_ for the desktop. Even feel free to use Linux/*BSD kernels and librarys. Just don't have what the normal Linux distro tends to be - A very UNIX like system with X and maybe KDE or GNOME slapped on top.

Re:Ironically, yes

[czardonic]

Well, in some sense, yeah. That's about the last time Windows was an operating system and just an operating system, as opposed to a forcibly-bundled OS, browser, media player, photo editor, etc., etc., isn't it?

Yeah. Everyone knows that the average computer buyer just wants a bare-bones platform on which they can roll their own browser, media player, photo editor, etc.

Based on the wild-fire spread of alternative OSs that trade in this needless bloat in favor of lower costs, we can safely assume that the "Just the basics, thanks" movement will only continue to build steam.

The continued decline in popularity of full service ISPs such as AOL and MSN, which force features on to users that they would prefer to track down, download, compile, test and de-bug themselves is further evidence that Joe and Jane Average User are saying "Enough is enough!"

Only time will tell whether these withering corporate giants will heed this cry soon enough to save their businesses.

Umh...

[OneFix]

In written testimony submitted after he was sworn in, Gates argued that penalties the states have proposed would give Microsoft's competitors an unfair advantage.

Good...it's doing its job. That's exactly what this is meant to do. M$ has held an unfair monopoly over the industry for years, and this is meant to give other companies the chance to strip some of their power away.

As a monopoly, everything that comprises Windoze and Office are the result of ill-gotten gains and should be plundered like M$ has done to others in the past.

If it is sucessful, this could be what brings the tech industry out of its current slump...

You too can waive productivity gains w/ Microsoft

[jrshaw]

"Microsoft today is investing heavily in XML Web Services, a next-generation computing platform that holds the potential to unleash new waives of productivity gains in the economy."

Amazingly truthful for a Microsoft statement, but I think it would have been clearer to say "throw away", or "forsake" instead of "waives" productivity gains.

Re:Ironically, yes

[Telastyn]

No, but wouldn't it be better if during the windows install it gave you a bevy of choices for each component install?

Have a "software disk" or two or three that includes alternative options.

Install Web Browser?:

(o) Microsoft Internet Explorer
( ) Netscape Navigator
( ) Opera
( ) Mozilla Clone
( ) None

Have options for everything. Their stuff will be default, but allow others to modify installers to install other things as their own distro. MS gets the cash for the sale, with perhaps some for the distro maker due to "value added" stuff.

Because if you notice, those same Alternative OSes are gaining in bloat becuase there's becoming less and less things that you need to go and find and install, because it all comes with the distro.

Re: Why Bother

[lintel_user]

Do you think attitudes are changing though? Do you think people are actually trying to think about the user? I agree with a number of people who've bought this point up. Just because a lot of people aren't comfortable with computers it doesn't make them stupid. On the contrary, they're probably more competent than us in a number of areas. I for one know that I don't know what the heck goes on in my car and wouldn't be able to fix it if something happened. OTOH, my auto mechanic would, but he is in no way comfortable around computers... Everyone has different strengths

The states should question Gates over CIFS license

[Andy Tai]

Gates claims [infoworld.com] today Microsoft's efforts to open its APIs and protocols to developers, so they can develop programs that interoperate with Windows, are enough.

Then the nine states should question Gates over the recently publicized CIFS license incident [advogato.org], asking him why are GPL developers excluded?

Re:Testimony?

[ImaLamer]

It's almost as if there is some sort of mind control going on.

Bill sends waves to certain people and they respond with:

"Bill Gates will lead us through the computer revolution!!!"

I don't think they have perfected this trick using your monitor; alas they have been trying and getting people for years.

Because of this people have placed that 800 pound primate on their own backs. The mind share has been extended to the senate, state's attorneys and federal government.

No one feels like the world would continue if Microsoft was to be punished. People fear the "future" will never come - in terms of their imaginations.

The funny thing is I browse over to freshmeat and see projects for everything. I can see the seeds of the "future" in all these projects that mainly one person works on.

There can be a 640 pound primate out there but something needs to be done.

People need to realize that one company can't be producing all the code, dictating what projects could be squashed and making choices for the computing future.

As week look forward into the future we realize that computers - no matter how simple - will be in our lives.

It's going to be hard as things get more complicated - a precedent needs to be set.

Re:Why doesn't anyone care...

[zangdesign]

You have raised an interesting point.

When Jobs returned to Apple, he worked to stifle competition from alternate hardware vendors. As for the bundling issue, the packages included on the MacOS include a fair amount of software that has nothing whatsoever to do with the OS itself.

It doesn't really matter about Linux - the bundling is done by distributors. Since there is no one underlying Linux company, the bundling issue doesn't really apply.

Re:Like They Have a Choice?

[drinkypoo]

The problem with your scenario is that Microsoft is not giving people a choice. If you buy a computer from Dell, Compaq, etc. you pretty much have to buy Windows because that's the way MS's licensing practices work.

The solution is not to make microsoft sell a stripped version of windows. The solution is to make microsoft change their licensing practices to allow manufacturers to bundle whatever else they want with the OS.

Were you trying to be clever when you said "fecescious" or do you just need a dictionary [dictionary.com]?

Not "Install," but "Open with..."

[HWheel]

I think that everything should be installed. But the first time I use my brand-spanking new computer or click on a new file type, I have to select one: IE, Navigator, Opera, or Mozilla. But if this application screws me around, I should be able to right-click or cmd-click and select a new default application that's already installed. This even means when a page doesn't display right in IE (or Netscape or Opera for HTML --or Photoshop or Paint .jpgs or .gifs), I can quickly select another application.

Re:And we are to taken him seriously?

[corey_lawson]

No, you wouldn't have to remove it, just document the exported API used by the MSHTML COM object, and write a COM interface for Gecko, etc. to use, and allow them to register in the Registry where IE usually does. If you can do it with .DOC, you should be able to do it with a call to GetHTMLService api call.

OEM mod's

[JMZero]

Ever used one of those HP bundles with the special internet keyboard, the special edition of Windows 98 with the special drivers for the special CD writer? (short summary: they're awful) And a little jiggering around will teach you that you can never really de-HP the machine.

Would it be a good thing if more OEM's did things like this? We could all have special pre-installed Bonzi buddies! Worked into the OS so they're impossible to remove for most people! YAY!

Perhaps MS is doing consumers a service by preventing more OEM tinkering.

Also, would MS charge less or more for a machine without Internet Explorer? More of course - MS wants people to have it.

Note that I don't actually disagree with you - MS does screw people into one choice. I'm just saying that there's a good chance other companies would screw Average Joe just as bad as MS does.

.

This is like my relatives

[WillSeattle]

who were rumrunners on the Great Lakes - arguing against repealing prohibition.

after all, it hurt the business ...

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