Gates: Say No to GPL, Yes to the Microsoft Ecosystem 950
Andy Tai writes "As part of Microsoft's campaign against the GPL, Bill Gates is personally coming to the front line to launch attacks. While speaking at the Government Leadership Conference, Gates argues against spending R&D dollars for GPLed software development. He suggests countries that look to adapt the GPL model are denying "the benefits of an eco-system that has worked extremely well in the United States" and they should copy the system in the US (where Microsoft has an monopoly). He further suggests that source code availability is not generally needed, and when it is needed, Microsoft provides it. Invoking words like "capitalism" and "innovation", Gates argues that free software can exist, but should be like a free unix called "VSB" (probably a transcription error for BSD), without the GPL around it. Gates continues: 'A government can fund research work on BFP, UNIX, and still have commercial companies in their country start off around that type of work. You know, technology policies like biotech -- you only -- if your universities are doing work that can be commercialized, you will have IT jobs in your country. And if they are not, then fine, just say that farming is your thing, or whatever it is. All the taxes will be paid by those guys or something -- I don't know. And the farmers will go home at night and work on the source code.' It is interesting to note that Microsoft is increasingly using the same "ecosystem" arguments for defending itself in the anti-trust trial and attacks on the GPL."
Open Sourcers, you're next! (Score:4, Insightful)
Mike
Quit trying to pollute our ecosystem (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't like copylefted software, you can always WRITE YOUR OWN CODE.
Yes, I know; many people have said this before me. And Gates' point is that governments shouldn't subsidize copylefted software, not that free software should be outlawed or anything like that.
While I'll be happy to see any source of money go to fund free software development, and I think that if the government does fund development it should fund only free software and preferably copylefted software, I personally don't feel the need to have the government subsidize it. The government subsidizes too many things already. I'll be happy for the government to not subsidize copylefted software, as long as it doesn't subsidize proprietary software, either.
Make better software... (Score:2, Insightful)
I'll give gates one thing... (Score:2, Insightful)
perhaps it's just me, and I'm reading too much into it, but lately microsoft has been laying it on a little thick. Saying that GPL will damage the "ecosystem" almost implies that the current situation is natural and good. for some reason this offends me, but I don't know why. maybe I'm just bitter.
I do know one thing tho- if microsoft keeps throwing around "poor me" speeches, and the public's gonna grow really apathetic to their plight(moreso than they are already).
cry me a river bill, you've been found guilty in the court of law. Don't expect sympathy. It's not enough to offer your source to those who you deem need it- it shouldn't be a shell game.
Another pearl of wisdow from our beloved Bill (Score:4, Insightful)
Even if that was true, he forgot a little detail: the other countries are not the US.
The other countries (mainly the so called 'third world') don't have tons of money to be wasted on software license [slashdot.org] (or at least they try not to) or the VC culture to afford un-profitable companies.
Farmers (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm convinced that amateurs are usually better at most things than professionals, for the simple reason that they care more.
As an example: I write professionally. This is a Friday afternoon -- my productivity level is dropping toward zero. But I am taking the time to make (semi-)intelligent comments on slashdot. Why? Because at slashdot, I'm an amateur. I'm in this because I feel like it, not because I'm being paid to do it.
OT: perhaps that's why Taco et al are so unproductive at their jobs? Because it is just "a job" for them? Hmmm... interesting concept.
Revolutionary? (Score:4, Insightful)
A businessperson, yes. A good businessperson? Of course; he's evil enough and it's hard to argue that his company is not monetarily successful.
But calling Mr. Gates a computer revolutionary? Oh dear God no. The only significant contribution that he personally made was decades ago while working in his dorm room, and even then Paul Allen probably did most of the tech work (this is a fact, not an inciteful comment).
I'd also wager that the VSB error was one resulting from poor transcription of his speech rather than him being an uninformed idiot when it comes to open source and free software, althought I'd certainly get a kick out of him confusing Lunix and STD or something
- Eric
Founder, monolinux.com [monolinux.com]
Gates can't be blind (Score:4, Insightful)
Obvious counterargument (Score:5, Insightful)
If the government pays for research and development of GPL'ed software, they are ensuring that the government, US citizens, and US corporations will always be free to use the fruits of that work, even after it has been extended. That's how I would prefer my tax dollars to be spent, thanks.
And I don't want to hear any whining here about how no-one will bother extending or improving the software if they can't profit from it. The entire history of Linux and other GPL'ed software has proven that theory wrong...
What annoys Bill about the GPL... (Score:4, Insightful)
...is that he can't take the code without honoring the owner's wishes as far as payment goes. With every other license he can find a way to get the code without having to shell out anything significant, but with the GPL he can't get out of paying back in the same coin he received: code.
New english (Score:5, Insightful)
"ecosystem - n : a system formed by the interaction of one organism with its physical environment"
Re:Gates hasn't heard of RedHat (Score:4, Insightful)
We'd -STILL- be in the red if we were forced to use Windows server products...if not out of business entirely.
Re:Is it me... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you guys are reading way too much into this. The issue is not Open Source or proprietary, or even Free as in Beer. The issue is what should happen when the government pays money for software reasearch.
Under the old model the government would spend a few million supporting a research team who would then start a company to exploit the copyright. The University might get a share or might not.
The GPL is something of an improvement on this situation, but it is designed to prevent proprietary versions being created. That can be a good thing, but unless you are a religious nut on the subject there are often times when it is bad. For example, if the original code would require a lot of effort to turn it into something that was merchantable quality or if the code is of no use unless it is built into something bigger. For those cases BSD is a much better choice.
There is a reason why we released the Web into the public domain and did not make it GPL. GPL would have closed the door on commercial versions which was absolutely the opposite of our objective. We were changing the flow of information, not engaging in an RMS power play.
BTW RMS has said things to me in person that are way wierder than anything in the article, anything Gates has said to me personaly and for that matter stupider than anything said or attributed to Dan Quayle or GWB. Like the time he suggested building particle accelerators in space because there is lots of free vacum there...
If governments are looking at ways to get the maximum out of their research programs it would be a good idea for them to consider the restrictions they intend to place on the distribution of their code at the same time that they apply for the grant. The 'we will keep it private and sell it' approach should be least favoured, 'free for non commercial use' should be next favoured and 'free for any purpose' should be most favoured. I would consider GPL and LGPL to be equivalent to free for non commercial use since in practice a lot of 'open source' code under GPL is often reclaimed by the original owners and commercialised.
As for the utility of source, I think it is overated. I would much prefer an API that is written well enough that I do not need to see the source to work out what is going on.
Which license? (Score:2, Insightful)
It's pretty obvious that the government can't fund/subsidize proprietary software (except for military purposes), because it's the public's money they're spending, so the public deserves to get the code their money was spent on. The question is which open source license it should be under. The way I understand it is that there are two points of view on this.
BSD style license
Licensing it under a BSD style license will make it easier for various companies to take the code, extend it and then sell it back to the public. The downside is that unless the stuff added wes important and significant, or the company makes sure to charge proportionally to it importance, the public is paying twice for the same software. The upside is that in order to develop those extensions, the companies will have to hire developers, giving back to the public, in a way. Obviously, however, the amount money spent on those developers will be less than what the company intends to charge. So in the end, the public usually ends up paying less than twice, but definitely more than once for that software.
GPL
With the GPL, the public basically says "We've payed for this software. You want to use it? You'll have to pay for it too, in the form of showing us any extensions you decide to make". This way, there's no way to screw the public and make them pay again for software they've already payed for. On the other hand, that software is then much less likely to be used commercially, so any extensions might not end up getting developed at all.
Since I don't tend to trust companies (especially not Microsoft) to charge properly for adding a pretty button to software I payed for and then selling it to me, I prefer the GPL, but it's obvious that both licenses have their advantages and disadvantages in this scenario.
Pointless Microsoft FUD (Score:5, Insightful)
For the past few years, GPL software has caught the attention of the masses. That includes big and small companies, knowledgeable users and complete newbies and even governments throughout the world. This has all started in 98 (or thereabouts), when Netscape released their source code for Navigator under the NPL. Since then, many other companies have followed suit, but without a very big impact (IMO, of course)
IBM seems to be the greatest Linux supporter so far. But most of the patches they are contribuing to the kernel are targeted solely towards their equipment (mainframes in particular). It almost does not impact myself, a lowly PC user. And it's in IBM's best interest that Linux should run on their hardware. At some point in time, they can simply give up their expensive to develop and maintain OS, and switch to Linux, which costs them a fraction of the cost. All the publicity they're pouring into Linux is targeted at getting people to accept Linux as a viable alternative.
SGI contributed their journaled file system. It's great, but it's still not completed. Reiserfs and ext3fs are far more advanced, and from what I've seen, are the preffered choices. RH with ext3fs, SuSE with Reiserfs. No distro that I'm aware ships with SGI's JFS(?). Again, no real impact on my computing experience.
Sun also wanted to released their StarOffice under GPL (or similar, I can't remember) for Linux. Then they decided to keep the source to themselves, and have OpenOffice available. Along with it, there's KOffice, SOffice, and the Gnome office apps (abiword, gnumeric, etc). I'm not counting WordPerfect, since I'm not sure if it's offered anymore by Corel. None are greatly successful, save maybe for StarOffice.
The only app that is wildly successful, and that came from a particular company is Mozilla. Not Netscape itself, but Mozilla. In Windows more people are using Netscape6.2, but under Linux very few do. But there are options to it too, Konqueror being the most proeminent, and Opera.
Those were _some_ of the positive attitudes from different companies. There are others, which I'm not going to list right now. Those ones suffice for my point.
The negative views come mostly from one source: Microsoft. But I don't see it affecting Linux as a whole, not more that it affected it in the past, when M$ was ignoring the GPL and Linux. They're lobbying governments to continue using M$ software and to stay away from Linux. And yet I don't see too many governments switching over to Linux. Those that do, would do it anyways, because of completely different reasons than the ones M$ is selling (costs, stability, non-dependence on one foreign vendor, etc).
My point (finally) is that no matter what action a certain company or government take vis-a-vis the GPL and Linux, it will not affect the movement to a great degree. True, it might advance it at a greater rate, or it might hinder it a bit. But as a whole, it will keep going. Linux will get better, nu matter if IBM contributes patches or M$ bans its use by the governments. As long as there are people who are willing to contribute their code under the GPL, there is nothing any entity can do to stop this.
So lets stop worrying what M$ might do. Many people, myself included, are going to keep running and supporting the GPL software, no matter what happens. I like the freedom it gives me far more than any incentive M$ could offer for me to give it up.
If my tax dollars pay for it, I want full access (Score:4, Insightful)
If my tax dollars pay for the development of software or other "intellectual property," I want to be able to get at it (unless, of course, there's national security concerns). And I don't want anyone to be able to take the fruits of that labor and build on top of it while offering nothing in exchange back to me, the taxpayer who funded it. In fact, I've been intending for some time to write to my elected representatives to have them introduce legislation mandating that the fruits of federally funded research must be returned to the public, with obvious exceptions for national research, etc. That means that university research funded by the feds cannot be patented and hoarded by the professors who decide to go private without their compensating me in some way. That may mean a GPL-style license or paying back some of the investment. But it probably really means something I haven't thought of.
Re:Quit trying to pollute our ecosystem (Score:5, Insightful)
If I'm giving money to the government, and they turn around and spend that money to help develop software, then I sure as hell deserve a piece of it! I helped to pay for it's existence, therefore I believe that I own a piece of it. If the government spends the money on a corporation to help them develop software that they are going to turn around and charge me for, then I am being charged twice for the same software!
This is where I totally support the government giving money to free software projects, projects that will be released under the GPL. If the software is licenced under the GPL, then there is no way that a company can take the software that I helped fund and use it to steal me blind.
Does Microsoft or anyone else deserve to reap the rewards of their own R&D work? Yes indeed, but only if they were the sole providers of funding. If I helped fund it, I want something tangible in return, and the GPL provides that.
translation (Score:5, Insightful)
It's amazing how the head of such an institution can argue that competition, capitalism, and free markets are good. Mr. Gates: if those values are so good, do the right thing: break up your company. Competition and free markets only exist when there are many small players.
What Gates really wants is an unregulated market so that he can continue to monopolize it, just like the robber barons and oil magnates of the early 20th century.
Re:Obvious counterargument (Score:4, Insightful)
But those extensions are parts of other people's work. An inventor can use an expired patent as part of some new, more complex, patentable work. A writer can use a portion of a story with an expired copyright to create a new, copyrighted work. It's my personal belief that government-funded research should go into that same pool.
And remember that commercial usage of a piece of BSD code doesn't remove that code from general usage. Only the new bits (developed the same as any other commercial code) are what the company really has exclusive control of.
An idea I had the other night... (Score:2, Insightful)
What is the legal status of source code used in publications where nothing is stated as a license, such as tutorials or instructional snippets?
I would assume the answer to this to largely depend on the medium. Is it copyrighted as part of the book or website it's published on, and is it something that can be incorporated directly into other code? I humbly (and lamely) propose a simple little trick.
Perhaps this might be a case for a new form of GPL, one designed to indicate that code is completely free for use even without keeping a license note in it. I kept thinking of calling it the EGPL for Educational GPL.
The main thing that made me think about this is the unwieldiness of including the full GPL with software if you're only looking at a 1-2K program on a webpage or a page of a book. Perhaps a statement such as...
##This code is released under the EGPL (Insert short URL to license here)
...pointed to a site where the full text (probably less than a paragraph stating that you can do whatever the hell you want, and not even need to redistribute what you do, or include the above statement) is available for perusal. This way you save the distribution hassles of a license that's a formality at any rate.
But of course, it could just be a pointless idea. Like I said, I was tired.
Re:Is it me... (Score:4, Insightful)
The funny thing about this speech is that it seems sincere. He really seems to think that the cost of Windows is trivial, and that complaints about its price are just bad press. Amazing. And then says a few sentences later that we should be moving towards lower cost computing. I just don't get how he puts it together.
Gates knows that GPL is Microsoft's biggest threat (Score:2, Insightful)
Gates sees the way the wind is blowing (Score:2, Insightful)
GPLd source is the only software engine that can stand up to Microsoft, because it cannot be stopped by the occasional business failure or frivolous lawsuits.
If governments start to seriously fund that engine, it would put some serious power behind that already significant competitor.
And don't be confused... Gates isn't for BSD licenses for any good reason, just because it suits Microsoft.. they can steal all their ONLY COMPETITOR's hard work, and give nothing back. Screw that... if someone wants to close a branch of open source they just need to plunk down some cash and dual license it.
Microsoft's true stripes? Close source BSD networking, Mosaic browser (basically, leach-embrace-and-extend), and fucking us over on CIFS which they actually pushed some time back as the "Common Internet File System" but which is now basically a non-public spec. [I say this means, as the technical community we take OUR ball and go home... we were willing to play nice and interoperate with SMB, but I guess we'll just have to replace anything networking with SMB]
We'll figure out how to make money and not go back to the farm. It's already happening:
http://www.linuxfund.org
I think that's the way it will go, but on more of a microdonation system, ala public radio or public TV model. Pacifica being the purest example of course
GPL impacts Software Companies, not IT (Score:2, Insightful)
Only if you want a monoculture for an ecosystem. (Score:2, Insightful)
In a Microsoft ecosystem, innovation is an endangered specie.
Re:Microsoft should either ignore or cooperate (Score:2, Insightful)
The problem is moderation, a large number of very vocal people on both sides of the commercial software "debate" are loud enough to drown out the moderate ones that actually believe both methods have a purpose.
If someone wants to release something for free, great. If someone wants to make money from it, great. If someone wants to come up with a combination of both, even better. But people who go absolutely nuts with righteousness on both sides lose track of the real goal - creating a good product.
Re:Farmers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Stupid Post (Score:3, Insightful)
And so that excuses Micros~1's ethical bankruptcy?
"I suppose, if everyone else jumped off the Empire State Building, you would have to jump off the Empire State Building."
As we move into a future where interconnected computers and ephemeral digital bits will become critical to everyday life, it is absolutely crucial that the architects of this future are people of good character and integrity. Micros~1 is the very antithesis of this. Because they are at the beginning of this future, and because of their size and "success", their ethical lapses are magnified by a couple of orders of magnitude. Even if Micros~1 were to vanish tomorrow, undoing the damage they've done to date would take decades.
Regardless of the magnitude of their "success" and the "shareholder value" they've created, it does not change or excuse the fact Bill Gates displays all the character and integrity of a spoiled brat. He needs to be put over someone's knee posthaste.
Schwab
well, he's sort of right... (Score:4, Insightful)
Remember, he wouldn't be arguing against Free Software if it weren't so effective.
Re:Is it me... (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, if the original code would require a lot of effort to turn it into something that was merchantable quality or if the code is of no use unless it is built into something bigger
So GPL can't be used by business eh? This would be because obviously reading and understanding the code, then rekeying it in so that it's slightly different would be waaay to much work for a company who wants to profit off of something they got for free...
Like the time he suggested building particle accelerators in space because there is lots of free vacum there...
Oh yeah, particle accelerators in space, what a terrible idea, cause obviously no ones going to be able to figure how to refine partial vacuum to complete vacuum, or avoid radiation. Only thing stupider would be putting a telescope in space...
As for GPL vs BSD, it's pretty obvious that GPL is for promoting free software and BSD is for widest adoption. Which one the government should use is up for debate, but there are some great reasons for widest adoption... (course they work even better against commercial software)
Really dumb things Gates has said(from the article):
That's something that for a few percent of the price of the PC you can buy a commercial operating system, where all the work of testing it, supporting it, delivering it, is included for a few percent of that price of the PC.
So, $200 for WinXP is 4% the price of a $500 PC. Great math there Bill.
As for the utility of source, I think it is overated. I would much prefer an API that is written well enough that I do not need to see the source to work out what is going on.
That's great, you use the API's, don't worry about the fact you've just tied yourself into only one vendor that can ever fix the API, or know what it *really* does...
Re:Quit trying to pollute our ecosystem (Score:4, Insightful)
Government funding of software development should mandate public domain release so that the code is completely unencumbered. Making it GPL or allowing the sponsored developer to keep it closed are equally undesireable alternatives that only serve to block some people from using it.
Re:Obvious counterargument (Score:4, Insightful)
Copyright... The notion by which an author is granted a time-limited, exclusive license to his creation in reward for creating it. In the case of government-funded software, we've essentially already rewarded the author by paying their entire development cost, thereby allowing us to skip directly to step 2.
And just for the record, while I may be pro-copyright and pro-commercial software (without being anti-free software), I also believe strongly in sane, limited copyrights. I hate what Disney's done to the copyright system as much as the next guy.
Poor Microsoft! It can't use stable Linux code! (Score:1, Insightful)
was not GPL-ed then Microsoft could save itself a lot of time - just get the ready, tested solutions,
copy it into their own and voila! Everything Linux
has Windows have as well! I guess it is much harder
for them to compete if they have to do work on their own.. Luckily they were able to use BSD stack
+ a lot of other fee stuff in Windows code even
not mentioning the authors
Kubus
Wonder what Gates thinks of Hotmail (Score:2, Insightful)
Huh, you mean like MicroShaft buying Hotmail? All the money they have spent trying to replace the perfectly reasonable BSD software they bought just goes to show that Gates hates anything not M$. This whole BSD good, GPL bad is pure devide and conquer, but it's not going to work. Everyone knows the value and utility of free software, including the capitalist pigs on Wall Street. Oh my God, MBAs have seen through the M$ business school software dump. Mr. Gates, your company is toast, all burt up and crummy.
You, paitre, are right. People have recoginized the blessing of free software. Those that stick to the ever more painful and wasteful M$ upgrade train will continue to suffer.
Re:Quit trying to pollute our ecosystem (Score:5, Insightful)
GPL'ing that code makes it unusable by Microsoft, yes. But it also makes the code unusable by FreeBSD, the Apache Group, the Perl developers. Basically it makes it inaccessable to anyone who uses any license other than the GPL.
In any event, I'm not sure why you think that Microsoft shouldn't have access to the code. If it was taxpayer funded then Microsoft paid for it as much as you did.
Re:Quit trying to pollute our ecosystem (Score:3, Insightful)
It is in *no* way inaccessible to these businesses: as long as they don't make modifications, they are free to use it as much as they want in pretty much whatever manner they want -- say, if the government develops some swoopty file compression routines or whatever, Microsoft could use that software to package up every version of Windows from here to eternity, and then enclose on the disk the software to decompress it.
What the GPL prevents is Microsoft changing something stupid in the software to willfully break compatibility, then reselling the software using their monopoly powers as something like Microsoft SuperDuperZip.
The GPL does not prevent you from using software that you get, it prevents you from making changes and then keep those changes from the public.
What total bullshit. (Score:5, Insightful)
Government funding of software development should mandate public domain release so that the code is completely unencumbered. Making it GPL or allowing the sponsored developer to keep it closed are equally undesireable alternatives that only serve to block some people from using it.
I suppose that this is the gist of Mr. Gates argument, and it is wholly false. Nothing is keeping ANYONE from using GPL software, modifying it to suit their purposes and redistributing their changes. Businesses can, are and will continue to chose GPL software when it's appropriate. Peopel will take government funded GPL'd software and improve and develop it. Most GPL's software is superior to closed source software for this very reason. The size and quality of Debian shows that the GPL does just as well or better than BSD as a developement model. The only businesses that won't be able to use governement funded GPL software are those who wish to deprive the rest of us of our rights to do what we want with our computers. Those kinds of people desrve to lose out this way. In the mean time, they are just as free as you and me to use GPL'd software.
The goal of government sposnsored research is to develop technology that people can use. It's not to create a franchise that one or two companies can use to screw the rest of the word and impeed the use of that research.
Microsoft's lies (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Quit trying to pollute our ecosystem (Score:4, Insightful)
Only for really, really tiny values of "using" that don't include incorporating the code into a non-GPL-licensed codebase. It's entirely unrealistic for you to say that simply dumping those theoretical "swoopty file compression routines" into another product as an external binary is a viable use of that code.
Microsoft, or any other non-GPL developer, would be blocked from taking that code and linking to it. They'd be blocked from adding it to their code in order to efficiently use it. Depending on how literal a view you take of the GPL, they're probably blocked from even looking at it to see how it works so they can better design their own compression routines.
This is a signifigant liability which hinders the utility of the code to the point where the developer would be encouraged to develop their own compression routine.
In your example, Microsoft would find themselves unable to benefit from the good GPL'd code. They'd develop their own "ActiveSwoop" compression which is guaranteed to be incompatible with the GPL'd code. Their huge userbase and marketshare gives "ActiveSwoop" considerable market viability even if it's not as good as the GPL code.
End result is the same. Microsoft's code is incomaptible which damages the viability of your GPL code. You've protected nothing by blocking Microsoft from using the GPL'd code. If anything, you've resulted in the quadzillions of Windows users being subjected to worse compression (assuming your GPL code is better than what Microsoft wrote).
Re:What total bullshit. (Score:3, Insightful)
The fallacy of this arguement is that incorporating open code into a proprietary product doesn't lessen the utility or availability of the original code.
Did FreeBSD suddenly stop working or start costing money when Apple grabbed huge chunks of it for their proprietary MacOS X? Of course not. Have the rights of FreeBSD users been trampled and infringed upon? No.
It's absolutely impossible for a company to deprive you of any rights simply because they used code in their proprietary product.
No, PEOPLE pay taxes (Score:3, Insightful)
This applies to a zillion other things too. I am really tired of universities patenting something that MY taxes paid for, then making money off royalties that I end up paying to some corporation. If some researcher uses a government (ie, MY taxes) grant to discover something, then it's MY discovery too. If researchers want to patent something or otherwise own it, they can do the research on their own time and own dime. NOT MINE.
Good to see (Score:3, Insightful)
Public Domain (Score:3, Insightful)
I know that this is closer to what Gates is suggesting, but it seems to me that this sort of stuff should be made freely available to all to use regardless of their application.
While Gates' motives are highly suspect, the fact is that the GPL is a license that prevents many people from using code for a particular purpose. If that code were developed using funds from general revenues, I don't think that is right.
On the other hand, I would highly encourage people writing software with private funds to license code using GPL.
Re:Gates sees the way the wind is blowing (Score:2, Insightful)
On the microdonations front, you look at projects like Transgaming where users pay a subscription fee and then get to vote on what apps to port. I don't like the implementation there... I think where you spend your money is the purest form of voting. So, rather, someone who wants a project done (in this case, an app made to work with wine) should be encouraged to vote with small amounts of money (paypal) for which programmers could compete as students and progressors compete for grants.
Dual licensing is another good way for oss projects to make money.
On the Public Radio model, pure donations, I think the "pledge drive" would be very different in a Web context... the drive would ideally be a very infrequent email which encourages users to vote for further progress on their favorite app or needed app with money. An email once every 6 months say from FSF, which leads to a web site and lets users vote with small amounts of money for specific projects. Fairly unobtusive.
Capitalism works, but it needs to be built into a system which programmers want. I hate the fact that every bit of software I've written is wholly closed and owned by businesses which throw it away eventually (outdated) or themselves go out of business and take all that effort with them.
Re:Passport (Score:3, Insightful)
If Bill Gates actually believed in capitalism and patrotism he would not be sitting on 40+ billion in cash. The fact the Microsoft is not investing that money, or giving it to the shareholders (ti belongs to them after all) indicates that Bill gates has no confidence in the viability of the US economy. He is probably afraid that the US economy will collapse and he is sitting on cold hard cash so that when that happens his company will survive.
Re:Quit trying to pollute our ecosystem (Score:4, Insightful)
No, those businesses' refusal to open source their own code is what makes the GPL'd code inaccessible to them. If they are willing to GPL their own code, then they can use the GPL'd code just as much as anyone else can. The fact that they are unwilling to GPL their own code is their problem, not the GPL's.
Having said that, I think releasing government-funded code into the public domain is a reasonable alternative to GPL'ing it, for most things.
Re:Quit trying to pollute our ecosystem (Score:5, Insightful)
Second, Microsoft isn't going to credit my tax contributions when they sell their software, they are going to charge as much as they can for code that my tax dollars already paid for. And they aren't going to give me access to the code. This is precisely why I won't support BSD. Because every dollar of support to BSD will be stolen in the form of code and will go to enriching Microsoft who is intent on destroying the very system of programmatic and standards freedom which created the "ecosystem" allowing it to come into existence. .NET an open standard? C#? Passport? they are all simply attempts to poison the ecosystem for potential competitors.
Nothing prevents Microsoft from using GPL'ed code. Just make the source available to their customers. Oh, that prevents MS from screwing their customers and selling shitty software? Well, exxcccuuuusseee me. Don't steal my code then.
Microsoft doesn't want a healthy ecosystem. They want an ecosystem which they dominate and directy all advances to prevent any bigger beast from evolving and threatening their existence. If MS really wanted a healthy ecosystem, they'd publish their networking protocols, their Word, Excel and Access file formats and their MSExchange protocol.
Enkidu EOT
Re:Farmers (Score:3, Insightful)
My point, though, had less to do with expertise and more to do with motivation. Self-motivated people tend to do better work than those that must be pushed to do something.
When I'm at work, the very fact that I'm at work can give me writer's block. But if I surf on over to slashdot, for instance, I can often (but not always) get the creative juices flowing again by posting here. The fact that there's no pressure on me to comment allows me to (sometimes) write more compellingly here than I would if I were working on some project for work. Why? Because here I only argue issues I care about, when I care about talking about them -- I'm more motivated to put the effort into doing it right.
That motivation factor is a function of the work environment, which is directly related to the difference between a professional and an amateur.
Your post sounds like ridicule, but I'd like to point out that our points are complementary. You're right, but that doesn't mean I can't be at least partly right as well.
Re:Gates hasn't heard of RedHat (Score:3, Insightful)
Gates is generally a moderately sharp cookie, but he's wrong on this one. We have our own "ecosystem", and it works better than his.
Free software levels the playing field (Score:3, Insightful)
Free software levels the playing field.
Everybody has access to the same software, and how they fare depends only on their marketing skills, the quality of service and the richness of their offer.
Free software removes differences between the rich countries and the poor ones, because it gives access to the tools and technologies to everyone, regardless of their location, be it Bostson, Bangalore, or Moscow or Sydney. What they do with it depends on their intellectual capacity not the depth of their pockets.
I don't know why Microsoft is spending so much time and money on a crusade against GPL. Apparently it is easier for them to fight GPL than to learn the rules.
Re:Is it me... (Score:5, Insightful)
Bill Gates is at the top of his own little kingdom, one he personally designed to his own satisfaction. Combined with the fact that the man is insanely rich and not known for his ability to accept opposing viewpoints (to put it mildly), by the time the 'facts' make it to Bill they're probably, at best, a vague approximation of reality. There's little doubt in my mind that they reflect a reality which doesn't actually exist, but instead is one that Bill would *like* to exist since his underlings are highly motivated to present this over anything which the king might find less pleasant.
This is a problem in all organizations, and it gets worse the more levels of 'sifting' you have between the very bottom rung that collects the information and the very top rung that acts on it. The problem is exacerbated if those that sit at the top rung have a great deal of power, and Bill is arguably one of the most powerful men in the world based on his wealth alone. The information he receives has to be some of the worst blather in the industry.
There also seems to be some indication that Bill's reality is warping a bit, also not uncommon amongst the rich and powerful. The longer they spend at the top the stranger they seem to become, this process accelerating dependent on wealth and isolation. Bill is very, very wealthy and also very, very isolated; it's no wonder he's starting to act even weirder than normal.
So it's not a surprise that he seems to be sincere. He probably believes most of what he says now, convinced by his continued existence in OddWorld that what he used to know as propaganda is actually true. Just wait for another ten years to pass and see how bizarre and out of touch the guy is then...like Howard Hughes they'll say he *used* to be great but now he's just insane...err, 'eccentric'.
Max
Re:Public Roads (Score:1, Insightful)
Yeah Bill Joy must really be pissed at someone stealing his code. That is when he isn't rolling around naked in a big pile of cash.
TCP/IP networking was developed as a public work for national defense. You might find that the US military is having great success having their Sun and Microsoft products interoperate. Mission accomplished. And you got the code.
Re:many other comanies? (Score:2, Insightful)
>
>If you write consumer software and it doesn't run
>on Windows, you aren't getting more than 1%
>market-share. Ever.
>
>It doesn't matter how many of you put penguin
>bumper stickers on your car. The world is going
>to do what it has always done to hardcore
>computer nerds who act like this is some sort of
>struggle between good and evil....
>
>Ignore you.
>
>The rest of us have more important things to do
>with our lives.
Perhaps you should expand your horizon a little, or make new aquaintances. The fact is we're making converts to Linux every day.
Go have a chat with your local Linux Users Group and I'm sure you'll see the same. Or go have a chat with the CS students at your local college. Talk to the guys running your ISP. Monitor usenet and web message boards.
The battle for the hearts and minds of our future CTOs, the education of our IT departments, the freedom to choose the combinations of software we use without fear of vendor lock, all combine into our motives in putting penguim bumper stickers on our cars.
I don't recall that I've ever seen a Microsoft bumper sticker... Linux inspires passions about technology that Microsoft never will. Microsoft buys their "grass roots" efforts, whereas we stump the old fashion way.
Re:nice flamebait story michael (Score:3, Insightful)
The existence of Microsoft and the fact that PCs are cheaper and better have nothing to do with each other. PCs would be better and cheaper regardless of whether or not MS was around and to conflate the two is just propaganda.
In addition, we have no idea what the world would be like if there had been no single monopoly but instead several competing companies. No one does, including you. The only thing we do know is that sans MS the world would *still* have obtained an OS for home computers, probably several of them; MS didn't 'create' a demand here, nor would the demand have evaporated without MS.
Max
Re:No, PEOPLE pay taxes (Score:3, Insightful)
So ultimately, all taxes are payed by individuals, not by corporations. Corporations are just nifty collection points for government skimming. All taxes - every single dime of them - come from citizens.
Corporations have no rights, either as citizens (which they aren't) or taxpayers (which they aren't). They have only privileges, which we may or may not grant them based upon whatever criteria we - the citizens - feel are appropriate.
In this case I agree: government-funded research, all of which comes from tax dollars payed by citizens, should be returned to the citizens. This may be 'public domain' or 'GPL' depending on the circumstances and public will, but corporations aren't entitled to anything other than what we say they're entitled to.
Max
Ecosystem? (Score:3, Insightful)
The open source community exhibits that kind of behavior. Some people ask "Why are there so many different Jabber clients [jabbercentral.org]? Shouldn't we all get together and concentrate on one good client for each OS? Not if you want a healthy 'ecosystem'... Let a thousand projects bloom... 10 might become great products. 'Natural selection' will cause a lot of them to fail, but the rest will succeed in their niche.
Opensource software development even allows for transgenic mutation, if the code is copyleft. The 'DNA' (our code), can move around, joining other projects, making robust solutions for each niche. If conditions change, some projects will suffer, but others will rise.
Bill Gates thinks that Capitalism and Innovation work, because it's worked for him [webho.com]. Meanwhile, $209 for Visio? What's up with THAT? It's MacDraw for Org Charts... Lemme out of "that" ecosystem pronto!
=====
Re:Open Sourcers, you're next! (Score:3, Insightful)
Your attempt to gain support for the GPL is weak.
You're misinterpreting... (Score:3, Insightful)
I think he ment in the sense of GPL'd code. Sure, MS can use little GPL'd utitlities, but they can't use the code unless it's for a GPL'd project. That's the point I think the poster was trying to make.
Best argument for GPL (Score:3, Insightful)
The convicted software monopolist doesn't like the GPL.
Who could ever use another license again?