Microsoft's Guide to Accepting Donated PCs 643
An anonymous reader links us to Microsoft's Guide to Accepting Donated Computers
for Your School, which contains humorous statements such as
"If a company or individual donates a machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating system that was installed on the PC. "
It's just an amusing little read that basically amounts to keeping the license
with the PC. Also neglects to mention the Naked PC discussed in this slashdot story.
What a crock (Score:3, Insightful)
This is Quite Ridiculous (Score:3, Insightful)
What about HPs? (Score:3, Insightful)
Wasn't there a slashdot story a while back (I think it was here) about how HP now doesn't not ship OS software along with new computers (which is true)? If your computer's OS crashes, you have to go through great lengths to actually obtain a physical copy of Windows XP (since, apparently, the system-restore application is all-powerful).
A bit self-defeating, perhaps.
Choice is bad (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember, kids: Microsoft doesn't hurt people. Choice hurts people.
Re:This is Quite Ridiculous (Score:2, Insightful)
Its still a pretty big leap of logic from that to "You must only accept a PC that has the OEM copy of Windows with it" though.
Another One? (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:This cannot be true (Score:2, Insightful)
What should be said, rather than what is said, "If you are going to put a commercially licensed OS on a computer, or are given a computer with a commercial OS, you must have a valid license for that instance of that OS." Of course, they didn't say that. They said something far sillier instead.
With regard to WinXP (Score:4, Insightful)
If I were to sell or donate my PC to someone else and that PC has XP installed (which I activated using my name), what must I do to dissociate my name from that activated copy/serial number?
Typical FUD (even baldfaced lies) (Score:5, Insightful)
If I build my own PC and install Windows on it, I can give it to someone else and keep the copy of Windows as long as I remove it from the PC. This article implies that it is illegal for me to keep my copy of Windows if even if I give away the PC without it. If I install Linux, I can keep my copy and give away the PC with the OS still installed. Their statement is only true for pre-installed Windows (i.e. Dell installed it) where the license is tied to the particular PC.
All copies of the software on original disk or CD, including back-up and/or recovery materials
Manuals and printed materials
End-User License Agreement
Certificate(s) of Authenticity
This is misleading, and encourages institutions to only accept computers where these items all exist (i.e. MS operating systems). Such is not necessarily the case if, say for example, I installed Linux over the Internet.
Yes, once the machine and installed operating system is transferred to your school or institution you own the PC and the licensed software. You can upgrade via Microsoft Academic Licensing Programs...
Oddly, they neglect to mention that this also only applies to Microsoft software. What if the donated computer is a Mac?
These sorts of things are like Halloween documents that MS makes public INTENTIONALLY! You'd think they'd raise some eyebrows at the DOJ.
Re:This cannot be true (Score:3, Insightful)
1. The person who donated the PC kept the OS that was originally installed on it, and is still using that OS on a different machine.
This is a violation because OEM licenses specifically state that the OS is only licensed for the original computer it was installed on.
2. The person upgraded the OS on the donated PC, but did not give you all of the appropriate materials required to legally transfer the license of the new OS.
An example of this is: Person A buys a computer with Microsoft Windows® CEMeNT on it and later upgrades the computer to have Microsoft Windows® eXPlode. They then donate the computer to a school, but fail to include any of the documentation, CDs or licenses for either OS. At this point, the school is not legally allowed to use eXPlode, and Person A is not allowed to use CEMeNT and violated their eXPlode license agreement by distributing the OS to someone else.
Rather than giving you the blunt facts and letting you interpret the fact that as long as you have a legal license for whatever OS you decide to use on the PC (such as the GPL license of a Linux distro), Microsoft decided to twist the truth to make schools spend more money either buying new PCs (with Windows® installed) or buying new Windows® licenses for the donated PC.
Click the feedback link and... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is Quite Ridiculous (Score:3, Insightful)
Silly, silly Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)
A. It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain with a machine for the life of the machine. If a company or individual donates a machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating system that was installed on the PC.
*sigh* More Microsoft FUD. I don't remember that requirement being stated when I bought any PCs, I wouldn't have bought them if it was, and I doubt I'm bound by it now.
Let's face it, 50% of the pre-installed software doesn't last 5 minutes after I get it home (AOL, etc.) And after about 2 years, I've usually removed it all anyway and upgraded. I don't keep original install disks after that, they just clutter up the place. How could MS infringe on my right to use the computer in the very reasonable manner, when they themselves sell every kind of software updrade immaginable?
Sure, I can't go buy a copy of Windows XP, install it, then "donate" the computer but keep my purchase to install again. But that's not what MS is saying here. This article is just another bad PR story waiting to trip MS up. What are those guys thinking? Not much, is my guess.
If you want to donate a PC, my recomendation would be to erase the HD(s), then remove all the drives from the system. Then donate the parts to a school. Tell them it's parts, and you don't know where they came from. If the teachers can't put it back together, then I bet the students can.
Re:I just find it funny... (Score:3, Insightful)
That me be what you think they MEANT, that is not however what they are saying. They are quite clearly telling people that any computer that was purchased with an operating system (they don't even specify MS) must by law keep that operating system when it is re-sold.
You clearly know better, but some techno-ignorant school administrator probaly wouldn't.
Cut'n'paste:
"Q. Why should a donor include the operating system with their PC donation?
A. It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain with a machine for the life of the machine. If a company or individual donates a machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating system that was installed on the PC."
Re:AFAIK not (Score:2, Insightful)
I haven't been following the case anymore, but I think it came out that MS is a monopoly, and as such, they are severely constrained in what they can do. Remember, it is a violation of the antitrust laws to "maintain" a monopoly. If their statements were found to be misleading, this could be construed to be an illegal maintennance of a monopoly, and possibly subject to treble damages.
The best way to sue them on this is to find someone small who microsoft is suing, and have them counterclaim it. An even better thing is if the small conterclaimer is actually paying for their defense from insurance money.
Re:Alternative guide! (Score:5, Insightful)
If that were what Microsoft was saying, they might have a point...but when they say:
It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain with a machine for the life of the machine. (first sentence of the first answer in the Q & A section)
They *are* being intentionally vague. It would be one thing for them to say, "A pre-installed operating system cannot be used on a different computer if the original computer is donated." The way that they've stated it makes it seem that installing a non-MS OS on a donated computer is illegal.
Microsoft is more than capable of constructing sentences that are anything but vague (ever read one of their EULAs?). The fact that they're not doing it here shows that they are intentionally trying to mislead people.
Legal requirement... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Alternative guide! (Score:3, Insightful)
I have a computer with a pre-installed version of Windows. It's a package deal. This Is Significant And Important (TM). I donate the PC to a school. The Windows license must accompany it.
So another equally valid requirement would be: Please wipe the hard drive of any hardware that is donated to you, unless you have the license for all the software.
I don't think Package Deals(tm) require you to keep everything together if you donate it. Think of, say, a printer that came with the computer.
IANAL, but if you're not re-selling it, I'd imagine you don't have to keep the package deal together. Maybe under trademark law you have to keep it together when reselling it on eBay or something, but you're not reselling, you're donating.
I got the pre-installed OS as a part of the PC package, therefore I can't split it up when I donate the hardware.
Sure you can. If you believe that software "licenses" are really binding (which a cash-strapped school probably would do), then you can wipe all copies of the OS, destroy the media and license, and donate the computer with no OS.
If you don't believe licenses are binding, then you can keep your OS and do whatever you like with it, as long as you wipe the hard drive of the donated machine.
So in summary it should be okay to:
1) donate a naked PC, or
2) donate a PC filled with proprietary software, as long as each license is transferred.
Re:This is Quite Ridiculous (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This is Quite Ridiculous (Score:3, Insightful)
All they say is that the Windows licence that was purchased with the computer must stay with the computer. End of story.
So for example, I had to pay the MS tax on my laptop, and I have my unopened Windoze ME to prove it. So, if I ever sell or donate my laptop, I am only obligated to give them the CD with it, because technically, that copy of ME is only valid for the machine that I purchased.
But when you donate a computer, do you have to give the recipient the OS that came with it? Is there anything wrong with destroying the original copy of the OS and telling the recipient to buy their own (or, of course, use a non-MS OS)? If not, that page simply lying, which I suspect to be the case.
Interesting (Score:2, Insightful)
Will the computer run the software that your school currently uses?
What is the cost of integrating the hardware into your existing networks?
Will your teachers or students need additional training to use the computer?
And then proceeds to totally ignore those three important topics and prattles warning schools about operating system licenses. What the feck? Makes me ill.
poor_boi
Not Quite (Score:2, Insightful)
Ok, first off, it doesn't say remain installed on the machine. The license (for that OEM version, and only that copy) is bound to the system.
Second, you have the right to terminate the EULA, destroy all copies of the OS and that's it, the contract is void.
I don't think that the donation is the point (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:You think this is bad? MS bought out WV (Score:3, Insightful)
Simply requiring Internet Explorer seems odd, but since it's the default browser on both Windows and Mac OS I don't see the problem. It's not like the schools had to go out and *buy* the darn thing.
I agree, it's odious that students are being polled about their consumer behavior. I'm surprised this action is not illegal (not saying it is or isn't, but it seems like something normally proscribed). And I'm not sure I see the value in demographic information collected this way, it wouldn't seem to be very complete or reliable.
School time is wasted on millions of non-education related tasks, many wholeheartedly endorsed by taxpayers. Pledging allegiance to a piece of colored cloth. Disinformation about drug use. Abstinence pledges. Etc. In many cases the education value of the material is highly questionable, but the social agenda is clear.
$16 million may seem insignificant to Microsoft, but to a school district that's huge. My local school district (I'm a parent, not a student) is short about $30 million right now. Given the low impact IT decisions have on schools overall (except maybe as an expense item), I wouldn't be too opposed to some sort of quid pro quo in my own district. I'm not so worried about Microsoft products in the schools, the schools canoot be the vanguard in the fight for a new OS-- especially since that's traditional Apple territory. Frankly, I think it would be cheaper for Microsoft to obtain this demographic data by simply paying adults to participate in a good survey or two (or buying it from company's whose main business is demographic data-- since when is market research a core competency over at Microsoft?).
The worst aspect of this is the consultant role you mention. That seems to be a lock on Microsoft making sure that as much of that $16 million gets spent on Microsoft products.
Have I heard of this in my area? No. The schools here use Macs and if my daughter said they were using school time to take consumer surveys, everyone from the teacher to the school board would hear about it. That would be front-page news in one of the states taking the hardline against Microsoft in the anti-trust suits.
No, No, No -- This is Good! (Score:3, Insightful)
Y'all missed the point. What Microsoft is saying is that if you give away a PC that came with a Windows license originally, you have to give away that Windows license along with it; as a practical matter, this means that people won't be giving away PCs with Windows but no license, and trying to keep the license for another PC -- by doing it this way, Microsoft insures that people who DO upgrade have to make a conscious decision to buy a new Windows license, or not to buy one and run another OS instead.
Try it this way: Every machine running an unlicensed copy of Windows is a missed opportunity to have that machine running something else. If the school districts are given the Windows licenses with the machines and choose not to use the licenses (by running something else), even better!
Re:Alternative guide! (Score:2, Insightful)
It is also as incorrect as it is clear. I don't doubt that it is caused by a misunderstanding on the part of the composer of the statement, but isn't there a legal obligation to get these kinds of threats right?
Heh. That's funny, too (Score:2, Insightful)
What constitutes the life of a machine? (Score:1, Insightful)
My point is that a lot of these older systems might receive upgrades from the schools they go to, even if it's just adding a bit more ram, and many of them may have been upgraded by their previous owners. At what point is it a new machine without the fetters of Microsoft licensing?
Everyone relax (Score:2, Insightful)
If you take a PC make sure you get any Licenses that come with it otherwise you might have an illegal copy of Widows on the machine.
It's not a big deal. Their wording is idiotic but the advice is sound.
MS does not give away their OS. If someone decides to donate a hundred PCs and load them up with Linux that's fine. What MS is trying to do is pretend that all PCs run Windows.
Re:Don't like the website? Wait a couple of days.. (Score:3, Insightful)
I was referring specifically to the statement regarding "owning" the software. The EULA specifically, and with great emphasis, states you do NOT own the software -- you LICENSE it -- specifically so that MS retains control over it. As soon as an MS lawyer claps eyes on that all hell's gonna break loose in Redmond. There is no way in hell MS would ever admit you OWN their software. It would be the end of their business model.
The rest of your post I agree with.