It's (Almost) Hammer Time 344
thelizman writes "C|Net is catching up on the buzz with AMD's Hammer line of processors. Of note in the article is how AMD demonstrated their 64-bit contender using Linux and Windows, instead of just Windows. In reality, Linux will likely have 64 bit applications more quickly than Microsoft, and will see use on this processor more readily than your average WinTel machine, so you know...like...it only makes sense."
hammer time (Score:2, Insightful)
Late (Score:2, Insightful)
AMD's Hammer is the same way. We all wait with bated breath for the new processor to drop, but no one's seen it yet. It's surely not vapor because we know it's on its way, but how long do we need to wait? How far into the future should these things be announced.
Hammer has been announced far too long in the past to be of any interest these days.
Let's wait until it actually gets released and then discuss further.
But the real question is... (Score:2, Insightful)
...when will there be motherboards that support it?
---Windows 2000/XP stable? safe? secure? 5 lines of simple C code say otherwise! [zappadoodle.com]
Offtopic Request to CmdrTaco (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not sure which is better journalism though... on one end, you're looking more professional by not having stupid 14-year-old-girl talk on the front page. On the other end, you're cutting up someone's quote!
I'd rather have it look nicer.
Re:Windows at disadvantage? (Score:1, Insightful)
I don't think Linux' cross-platform portability has anything to do with their potential in this marketplace. The market is in somewhat of a fluctuation point. That means there is a new set of platforms out there, a new market, and a whole load of applications that need to be created. If there were no degree of backward compatibility, all products would need to be created from the ground up. That would put all software developers on level turf.
However, since there is definitely a degree of backward compatibility (i.e. Hammer will run 32-bit apps, IA64 will run 32-bit apps in a lesser mode) the potential for Linux to wedge itself into the marketplace is not so great.
Linux does have several things going for it however. First, workstations were historically Unix-based, and Linux will be accepted nicely. Workstations historically run X, so again, Linux is a natural. It is multi-platform, so users may be more likely to have used it before, thus more inclined to use it again (if they liked it of course).
Linux has several things working against it though. First, NT-based OSs have a significant market share. As long as M$ has a product available, it will have no problem maintaining market share unless a competitor (i.e. IBM, Sun, etc) seriously markets Linux and does NOT offer an NT product as an alternative. Read: AMD is doing very little to push Linux by simply demonstrating it. Granted, they make silicon, not products, so either way they will have little influence over the acceptance of Linux over a competing OS.
What Linux does for AMD is simply allow Hammer to be an alternative processor to Intel IA64. It forces M$ to directly support Hammer or resign to allowing Linux ownership of at least the market share that AMD has. It also forces companies who are trying to sell Linux solutions (again IBM, Sun, etc) to consider providing Hammer in their product line. In effect, AMD is using Linux as a tool. Linux is NOT using AMD as a tool.
Linux will not be a beneficiary of this effort without a serious benefactor and some serious marketing funding.
Re:Windows at disadvantage? (Score:1, Insightful)
AMD was right to grab every DEC Alpha engineer (Score:3, Insightful)
Intel: Buys its way out of a lawsuit for stealing 64bit microcode from the DEC Alpha, then buy's the Alpha from Compaq to discontinue it. Then create a brand new 64 bit chip using their own limited talent, while shoving the existing 64 bit platfrom into an early grave.
Does this make sence to anyone? Alpha's rock, and they have been 64 bit for years. There already was versions of Win2k, Linux and Unix in addition to major apps like SAP and Oracle tuned for the platform.
Threat to Sun (Score:1, Insightful)
AMD will enjoy a short period of incredible success with Hammer, its 64-bit 0x86 architecture. Intel will see the success and immediately release its own 64-bit extension to the basic IA32 architecture. Both chips will be the foundation of commodity, ultra-low cost, servers.
These servers will annihilate Sun in the low-end to mid-range portion of the server market. These servers will gradually creep into the high-end of the server market, where machines having 32 or more processors dominate.
Sun has seen the writing on the wall. As a last desperate measure, Sun has announced that it too will sell Intel/AMD-powered servers running Linux more than 1 year after IBM has been successfully doing the same.
Just look at the performance data at SPEC [spec.org] and TPC [tpc.org]. The x86 processors crush UltraSPARC III across a broad range of benchmarks.
Re:cf: IA64 (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't forget the folks who claim that a particular stereotype perpetrated by a few zealots must obviously apply to an entire class of people....
Max
Re:Is x86 really the way to go? (Score:3, Insightful)
AMD/Intel in the press (Score:2, Insightful)
The AMD article is a simple response to a press release. The Intel article is a prose editorial about the state of the industry and where Intel's new processors (might) fit in.
Re:64-bit on the desktop? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:64-bit on the desktop? (Score:2, Insightful)
I really have to disagree with you there. Computer power and graphics power are so far out ahead of what programmers are writing, it's rather sad.
Just look around at graphical interfaces on computers. X11, Windows, etc. None of these run nearly as well as they should. {clicks to open a new netscape window and waits while the hard drive grinds away, geez 2 CPUs, ultra2 scsi, dual TNT2 cards, 1gig of ram and here I sit *grind grind*}.
I agree that we will always need more power. More power to crunch through the, even more, bloated software of tomorrow. Please don't assume I am being flamebait here -- Just look at how little has changed from the first versions of MS Office to the modern-day MS Office. Not a whole lot of gain for a whole lot of bloat. This seems to happen across just about every part of the software industry.
Call me on this if I am wrong.. Thanks.
Victor
Re:Windows at disadvantage? (Score:5, Insightful)
In the transition to 64 bits, if AMD can get there faster (and by there, I mean readily available to the consumer, not readily available to the bored millionaire), they can enlist Linux as their Microsoft and do the same thing to the market that has been happening for a decade: only with a free OS.
Actually, I wouldn't mind, and I don't think many would.
Re:Windows at disadvantage? (Score:5, Insightful)
Key applications for 64bit computing are more or less involved with anything that requires a huge amount of memory. Servers(massive databases), high-end engineering(airplanes, ships, etc.) and scientific computing come into my mind.
In these kind of applications and systems you're not concerned whether or not you like windows xp but rather: how cost effective is it and what is the performance advantage?
Unless your computers memory capacity is exhausted(what, 4 gigs is not enough for everyone?) and it is crunching numbers on full load 24/7 I don't see too many reasons aside the coolness factor to even consider 64bit computing. Heck, smp systems would make much more sense in most of the cases.
Desktop applications requiring lots of RAM (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Non-linear video & film editing:
Current video editing software can work from and to disk, but availability of more RAM will make it easier to do more sophisticated effects in real time.
2. Genome sequence analysis
Okay, not very many people will be doing this, but it IS a growing field, and people are doing the work on desktiop machines now (albeit slowly).
3. Modelling / CAD
You can never have too much memory in a CAD workstation.
4. Software development
Again, you can never have too much memory. More memory enables more agressive optimization, as well as supporting more productivity features in the IDE (like full source indexing). I have used toolsets that need 2+ GB of RAM to compile a relatively simple program (they swap now, of course).
So, probably not for Microsoft Word '03, but there are definitely applications for 64-bit computing out there other than servers.
-Mark
Honest Question. Isn't the bottleneck still Disks (Score:2, Insightful)
As we go over 2GHz, and from 32 to 64 bit, bus speed is going up (good), memory seems to be creeping up on speed (RAM that is)....
But what about hard drive access speeds? They don't seem to be getting faster at the same rate as everything else. And, the only think I seem to ever be "waiting" for using my 32bit 1Ghz system is reading something from the hard drive.
Re:64 bit proc = extreme heat? (Score:2, Insightful)