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The Almighty Buck

Sunset Clauses in Software 293

DaveAtFraud writes: "Ed Foster over at InfoWorld has an interesting column on "sunset" clauses in commercial software. I don't have a problem with people who write, say, anti-virus software charging for a "subscription" to their virus signature update service. I am paying for something of value to me and it costs them something to maintain this data. I do have a problem with the same people extracting a little extra "squeeze" every couple of years and forcing me to learn yet another user interface just because they have decided that the old one looks little dated. Somehow, I don't buy (no pun intended) that their engine for scanning a byte stream has changed again."
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Sunset Clauses in Software

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  • by mpicker0 ( 411333 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @07:32AM (#2703500)
    A company can only be expected to support a prior version for so long. We develop vertical market apps, and support a single major revision back.

    But what I'd also like to see is older versions being made free (as in beer) after a specfied time. DOS 6.0 and Win 3.11, old Amiga games, whatever. Since there's no real potential for those to ever make a profit again, why not help the handful of people who may still be able to make some use of them?
  • by blackcoot ( 124938 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @07:35AM (#2703505)
    And the computer industry in general has demonstrated that the concept of ethics no longer applies when there is money at stake. Read the average EULA: you have to surrender fundamental rights, such as fair use. Worse than that, the developers generally absolve themselves of any responsibility or liability whatsoever -- they won't even guarantee that the software that you have just bought will do what they claim it does! What we're seeing is the culmination of an unfortunate trend. The creators of a piece of software for as long as they control it have a monopoly -- anyone committed to using their product is pretty much at their mercy. And that means money -- lots of money.
  • Is this news? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by slayer99 ( 15543 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @07:41AM (#2703512) Homepage
    Microsoft have been successfully applying this business model for years. Why bother to fix old code when you can sell an upgrade to the latest version with this year's fashionable look?
  • by jweatherley ( 457715 ) <jamesNO@SPAMweatherley.net> on Friday December 14, 2001 @07:42AM (#2703514) Homepage
    This forced obsolescence is evil. If you collect old arcade machines you come across a similar problem - the suicide battery. Certain Japanese manufacturers [www.sega.jp] had a small amount of battery powered RAM that held the decryption tables to decode the game ROMs - when the battery goes your cabinet is useless!

    Why? Why? Why? If I buy something I expect it to work and I certainly don't expect the manufacturer to put a time bomb in it! Same goes for software. The problem boils down to the fact that you don't own the software - you just get a licence to use it under whatever restrictive clauses the vendor can dream up. There's certainly something to be said for genuinely free software - once you've got it it is your's to do with as you please.
  • by bluemilker ( 264421 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @07:43AM (#2703515) Homepage
    To be honest, I had not thought that much about "software licensing" up till this point, mainly because it seems to me that entrepreneurial hackers will always find a way around that type of thing. But when a piece of software actually requires connection to a corporate server to continue functioning (as with a virusscan program), this seems to fall only slightly short of blackmail.
    Diablo II automatically updated software when you logged onto Battle.net. Imagine if one day, everyone who logged on recieved with their "update" a notice that from now on, all character classes but barbarian would be available on a subscription-based service only.
    Ridiculous, yes... but the analogy is apt. People who bought something 4 years ago with a certain promise of functionality deserve to be able to keep that functionality.
    What if car manufacturers randomly repo'ed our cars because they figured the engines were out of date?
  • It's just wrong (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Katravax ( 21568 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @07:44AM (#2703518)
    I know all the arguments about how it's a corporation's responsibility to maximize profits for their shareholders, etc., but the only thing I see here is greed. I see people being laid off left and right while CEOs take home bonuses that would have paid all those salaries for another year. I see cuts made in quality and higher charges made for support while the price of the products go up. I see employees put on salary and threatened into working long hours for no extra consideration. When the fuck did money become more important than everything else?

    I probably sound pollyannish saying that when I pay for something, I want to use it how I see fit. I know all the college kids are going to start whining that I should use Linux instead, but I don't like Linux, as much as I've tried, so I guess I just have to take whatever crap the corps feed me. I've been a victim of the PowerQuest upgrade cycle myself, and it pisses me off as much as it pisses the next guy off. The software isn't worth $50 per year, but that's what they manage to drag out of me because of their harsh policies.

    But more than the sunset clauses, more than crappy software, the greed makes me shake my head. When is enough money enough? What is gained by adding another couple million to your own bank account when there are so many there already? In the end, you're going to die anyway, so at least make the world a better place rather than just stuffing your money chest fuller. Do these people care that no one likes them? Do they care that they're despised and all their plebs would ditch them at the first opportunity? Has greed outweighed every other thing in life? It looks to me like it has.
  • by Yakman ( 22964 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @07:52AM (#2703530) Homepage Journal
    But what I'd also like to see is older versions being made free (as in beer) after a specfied time. DOS 6.0 and Win 3.11, old Amiga games, whatever. Since there's no real potential for those to ever make a profit again, why not help the handful of people who may still be able to make some use of them?

    Sure the old version of the product may not give the company any profit, but having the older version deprives the company from potential sales of the current version.

    For example if Microsoft were to give away SQL Server 6.5 because they no longer support it (this is a hypothetical, they may well still support it) then someone might use that instead of buying SQL Server XP (or whatever it's called now).

    Sure maybe MS is a bad example, but it's all about making money not doing what's potentially good for the community (actually, maybe MS _is_ a good example :) ).

  • by allanj ( 151784 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @07:55AM (#2703533)

    Would you rather have backward compatibility through countless versions? This has been tried, you know - the x86 CPU architecture has it's roots in ancient CPU designs, and has generally been backward compatible for ages. It's been lifted up to x386 compatibility, sure, but that's still way old and a huge constraint on the available choices. Or what about the Windows APIs? I've coded a lot of 16- and 32-bit apps in Windows (yeah, I know - but it's my job), and you still see lots of outdated crap in the Win32 API, just to keep backward compatibility.


    The point is - the cost to upgrade the system once in a while is (usually) money well spent on getting a system that's not getting way too old. It may cost you now, but you'll probably end up saving countless hours of frustration later. At least that's what my experience tells me...

  • by blackcoot ( 124938 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @07:56AM (#2703534)
    Unfortunately, that is not the case in the US. The UK still believes in nicities such as basic consumer protection and the principle of fair use as established by the Statute of Anne and is willing to protect its citizens' inviolate rights. Unfortunately, the US government, for whatever reasons, have decided to whore out the rights of its citizens in exchange for increased corporate revenues and, as a result, increased taxes (not to mention all those nice PAC campaign contributions). Hate to break it to you, but the folks in the US are phuqed. The DMCA et al have pretty much given big companies carte blanche to milk consumers for all they're worth.
  • by allanj ( 151784 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @08:03AM (#2703542)

    Let me guess - you run DOS and Win 3.11 apps too? Can't seem to find that MS Word 2000 thing for Win 3.11...


    Seriously, does replacing an '89 Civic require you to learn an entirely new UI? Did the pedals move? Have they been replaced by a joystick? No speedometer or fuel-gauge anymore? Point is, of course it doesn't require you to learn any new UI - it's still a car. There are no fundamentally new things you can do with a '01 model that you couldn't do with a '89 model. Or vice versa.


    Little changes yes - entirely new UI, no.

  • Re:Yup. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by khuber ( 5664 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @08:05AM (#2703546)
    That's what I thought when I read the intro. Supporting old software is a drag. Sorry to ramble on so much here, but I think as the industry matures, these sorts of issues will need to be addressed.

    However, I don't think that software licenses should expire. It's reasonable for a company to politely inform customers that they will no longer support versions older than xx.x after some date though. But if customers are willing to provide the support internally (if they're business customers) or forego support, that should be okay. The gas pump doesn't stop supporting your old car!

    I still have Word 97 at work. I will have a current version in a couple days since they're replacing my PC and no longer installing that version, but I have no technical need for it. Of course my development tools are kept up to date.

    This gets a little more complicated with programs that connect to online services. At some point, providing backwards compatibility becomes very difficult, especially if it includes working around bugs in the old software. In the case of the TurboTax web version (which I use for preparing my taxes), there is no software installed on the client. So for at least some types of software, having them be browser-based solves the problem of customers that don't want to upgrade.

    -Kevin

  • by gaj ( 1933 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @08:41AM (#2703583) Homepage Journal
    On the one hand, it's a simple fact that a company cannot afford to support a product line in perpetuity. We "End of Life" old products eventually, but we do it over a reasonable period of time. Our users get something like five years fair warning. Even then, it's not like the stuff stops working; we simply stop supporting it (unless a special support contract has been arranged for) and stop updating the sw & fw.

    It's a simple matter of focus. We cannot provide the high level of support we want to if we spread our support staff too thinly. Neither can we create new and better product if our engineering cycles are stuck frobbing and tweaking the old stuff.

    Granted, by the time EoF is reached, the product pretty much just works. And no one is stopping anyone from using it forever. But a company can only keep its left foot so far behind its right foot before it falls on its ass. Ok, strained metaphore, but the point is still valid, IMHO.

    On the other hand, sw or hw that just stops working (or starts extorting) after a period of time is just wrong . Again, dropping support (including things like anti-virus updates) after a while is just fine. Many products really do need to evolve. Using sw to hold your customer hostage, on the other hand ...

    Imagine a word processor that, at the designated EoL, would only come up and say "I'm sorry, Dave. I don't think I can do that. Please see your software retailer for the latest version of WordFrob, which may well allow you to open your old files, if you hurry!". Or a mail server that, when EoL is reached, sends a message to the BSA when you try to send mail with it, resulting in jack-booted thugs at your door shortly later.

    Anyway, though I think some of what was mentioned in the artical was iffy, most of it was perfectly understandable. Much of the whining, bitching and moaning here is just uninformed tripe. Though I concede that there are companies out there that really do their best to keep users on an upgrade treadmill, most companies just want to put out new and better product. I wish that at some point Intel would have grown a pair and pulled the plug on many of the crap in their processor design that's only there for backwards compatability. Not all at once, of course, but a sliding window of support makes perfect sense, both economically and technically.

    #include // my opinions are my own, not my employer's and all that

  • by C0vardeAn0nim0 ( 232451 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @08:50AM (#2703595) Journal
    Honda doesn't mind if you open the hood to tweak your car, and you know why ?

    Do you know how much equipment you need to make a perfect copy of a Civic ? do you know how much this said equipment cost ?

    Ford has the equipment, knowledge and $$$ to do this, but if they do Honda WILL fill a law suit aleging lots of patents and copyright infringment. As a result Ford rathers design theyr own models.

    Know, what kind of equipment do you need to make a perfect copy of a software ? how much does it cost ?

    You just need a computer with a CD burner. anyone can buy one for less tha US$ 2.000,00 and doing the copy is a nobrainer. THAT'S why software makers DO mind if you start to tweak with their products.

    You want to tweak your software ? fix that litle anoyance you found ? Use free (as in freedom) software. Linux, Hurd, GNU, whatever... The guys who develop the code does't mind if you take a look or change what they did.
  • by linuxrunner ( 225041 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @08:52AM (#2703598)
    Software companies from just about day one, have been doing this.
    Call it what you want, a "sunset clause", a "bomb", etc. Basically the software expires and you must pay up for another.

    The main cause of this isn't closed source software, but lack of competition.

    It's the lack of competition that allows the companies to do this. Obviously if there was another software service you could buy from, you would, wouldn't you?
    Even today there are a lot of small industries that buy software with these "expiration dates" in them because they have no where else to go, and can not afford to pay someone to write their own code.

    To all you up and coming developers.... find these markets and make software for them. It won't make you rich, but it's a start....

  • by dpilot ( 134227 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @09:36AM (#2703734) Homepage Journal
    You have to look a little deeper for the real problem. As a society, we are used to selling *things*. *Things* eventually wear out, require repair, get consumed, etc. Then you have to go out and buy another *thing* to replace it. Some *things* last longer than others, but all are essentially ephemeral.

    Even though the concepts embodied in a book are eternal, the book itself is ephemeral, so in the public mind it became a *thing*, just like any other *thing*.

    Enter the electronic age, and the liberation of the idea from the containing physical medium.

    Aside from all the copyright brou-ha-ha, look at the implications on a software industry. Simply put, bits don't wear out. They may become obsolete; their physical expression may wear out; but the bits themselves don't.

    So how do you build a "Software Industry". Either you force obsolescence, so that what you just sold will 'wear out' after a while, and you can once again treat it like a *thing*, or you strive for a newer, more appropriate model.

    From what I can tell, software actually began on a 'non-*thing*' model, with revenue largely derived through service. But once the dollar potential got big enough, the *thing* model came in and took over.

    OTOH, now we're nearing the end of the exponential growth curve in many areas, and maybe there's a chance for a newer, more sane model to re-emerge. People are getting tired of the upgrade churn of forced obsolescence.
  • by anonymous loser ( 58627 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @09:53AM (#2703799)
    It's the lack of competition that allows the companies to do this. Obviously if there was another software service you could buy from, you would, wouldn't you? Even today there are a lot of small industries that buy software with these "expiration dates" in them because they have no where else to go, and can not afford to pay someone to write their own code

    My company puts expiration dates in the licensing. It's more of a way to make sure that company is current with the newest versions for support and maintenence purposes, and that they have access to the newest feature set. We don't have the resources support something that's 3 years old, and most of the bug reports and feature requests we get about older products have already been addressed. We charge a maintenence fee each year after purchase, which covers support as well as automatic updates to the newest versions when they come out. If the company doesn't want to continue to pay maintenence (which is much cheaper than initial investment costs for buying our software, or a competitor's), we'll issue them a permanent license for the old version, but we won't support it.

  • Re:This is great! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Graymalkin ( 13732 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @10:27AM (#2703952)
    Wow you mean I can have a bunch of volunteers writing anti-virus programs for my company? Wow that sounds great. I bet the release shedule will be regular and punctual and I can get support by calling all of the development team's home phone numbers because they're going to provide support for me too! Oh I can't wait. Since it is open source it HAS to be better than a company with lots of money it can put into development costs. It will also be easy to use and stable imediately I bet! Joe Sixpack can download and install it with no problem whatsoever. Man that will be so great. I can't wait for those companies to go under either. Open source solves everyone's problems!
  • by Croaker ( 10633 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @11:25AM (#2704257)
    The thing is... most people *are* buying a limited license... it's just that they assume that they are not. The vast majority click "OK" instead of reading the EULA. Of course, software companies go out of their way to make you think you are "buying" their software initially, rather than licensing it.

    But anyhow... how many people buy software with an eye to its longevity? Probably, the main thing people think about in this respect is whether the company manking the software is established. Intuit has been around eons (in computer years) so it's fairly safe to say they will be there down the line, so you will still be able to run Quicken whatever IS will be around in 5 or 10 years.

    At least with current software, you have it on your system, and the company can't do much about that beyond no longer giving you support. Just wait until more and more software uses the "passport" model where you need to connect to a license database when you install, or even worse, every time you use the product.

    This is just the tip of the iceberg. Wait until more software is sold as "services." "Oh, hey, your license ran out. If you want your payroll data, you'll have to pony up more cash. Oh, and we raised our rates last month, so you'll be paying us triple what you paid initially. Have a nice day."

    In this model, however, at least there should be more disclosure about the end date. It'll be more obvious that you have "subscribed" to Quicken for a year or two, rather than having bought a shrink-wrapped box and having to guess about when the "time bomb" will go off.
  • A Fairness Model (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gordguide ( 307383 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @11:29AM (#2704269)
    If a SW developer wants to change the rules, fine. But consider your "customers* " and what you owe them for your current prosperity.

    Change the model all you want, but if you stop supporting/updating/selling a given SW product, release the old, functionally limited (by the developer's own definition, unless all the improvements are just window dressing) product as a free d/l.

    Even Apple will let you d/l OS7.6 for free. No, it's not supported, but it is a perfectly decent OS. Users of old, probably free computers (read "the poor") can get into the game for nearly nothing. Apple reaps goodwill and potential customers.

    It has got to be a big red flag if a developer won't release old, unsupported SW for fear that nobody will buy the new stuff. What's the good of your latest and greatest?

    SW is different than a car or a TV. Users must invest time and greymatter to learn it's ins-and-outs; you compel them to invest time and money in your wares. It is economical to keep using your stuff; the money is just half the investment.

    *customer- the guy who PAID you for a product, uses that product and is predisposed to support your future products with his MONEY. Alienate him at your peril.
  • by dcavanaugh ( 248349 ) on Friday December 14, 2001 @03:01PM (#2705428) Homepage
    Once upon a time, software was primitive (PC, mainframe, makes no difference). Constant bugfixes and new/improved versions were a fact of life. No one ever thought the software companies were doing this just forose things would be free. In the PC world, you bought the base product once at full price and subsequent upgrades at a discount. In the mainframe world, you bought the product once and then paid 20% annually for "maintenance", which was essentially a subscription for any patches, new versions, and phone support. In this scenario, software companies had work to do, and a customer base willing to pay for it.

    Then software "matured". Fewer bugs, more features than most people needed, not much of an incentive to keep upgrading. Y2K and excessive hardware/software costs put alot of mainframe systems into "legacy/do not upgrade" status. The few vendors who had mission-critical mainframe products really "milked" the customer base with whopper fees. Ask some of the IBM big-iron customers about CA (or IBM for that matter). It didn't take long for customers to revolt.

    Today, we see this in the PC world. Many people are jumping off the upgrade bandwagon because they see insufficient benefits to justify the cost. Microsoft is a perfect example: they have a diminishing upgrade rate with each new release of Office. Why? Because the product is mature -- each new release is only a little better than the one before, and the customers are not really clamoring for new features.

    Companies that have mission-critical PC products will no doubt use restrictive licensing to assure a revenue stream even if there isn't much of a demand for upgrades and bugfixes -- hence "Software Assurance (tm)" from Microsoft.

    It always was and still is the responsiblity of the customer to figure out how to avoid getting painted into a corner and "milked". Look for competitive vendors, be willing to migrate to new products, consider open source alternatives. Plan an escape path for everything you do. The alternative is to get "milked" as a cash cow.

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