More Links And Reports On Terrorist Attacks 1056
Two major news updates: the plane downed near Pittsburgh is reported not to have been shot down. A fifth plane which had been feared hijacked, this one a Korean Air jetliner, was forced down by Canadian Air Force planes over the Yukon. However, this plane is reported not to have been hijacked -- instead, its emergency beacon was triggered by a low-fuel indicator.
Importantly -- remember, blood is in demand. The Red Cross' site is mobbed, but here's the blood donation information on a the cached page at google.
More details of the attack and its aftermath: a report at at gnome.org, and a photo at indymedia.org. pajama links to NYC Police scanner traffic (winamp) streamed online, and an anonymous reader also points to another scanner feed.
Shadowwalker Delaforge writes "Hey guys: I'm submitting my web site to yours to get the word out. I've been compiling web sites, and info on the U.S. Attack. These sites are ones that work, and arent' swamped out of existence. I'm also adding new data about where people can donate money, blood, and other things dealing with this.
soccerdad writes "Due to the activities of today, the internet/networking experts at my firm have been asked by some of our clients to be on standby in case anything untoward occurs. They've been monitoring backbone activity, etc., in a "just in case" mode. They've described the activity they're seeing as somewhat strange. The backbone is, according to them, at about 80% utilization -- they've never seen it above 40% before. However, the main portal sites such as Yahoo aren't having substantively higher than normal traffic. They're working on doing some traffic analysis but haven't completed that effort yet."
A small piece of that bandwidth may be saved if you go to the link Kalak suggests: "William Shunn is collecting short notes from people in the terrorist affected areas so you can see who is OK." Look here (or post your name here if you're in an affected city) before tying up a phone connection. Alex Fabrikant submitted another personal information site at Berkeley
Thapthim writes "http://cbc.ca/ has all sorts of information, even in our own city buildings are being shutdown, all air traffic has been suspended. However Canadian Airports are taking in international flights heading into US so the air ports there are free for emergencies."
sn0wcrsh wrote to say that a "short blurb on Channel 7 Boston that the CTO of Akamai was on the fateful plane that hit the trade center" confirms the earlier reports that he was on board.
And ectrix writes: "The CFO of my company, Netegrity was on United Airlines Flight 175, which has been confirmed to us by United Airlines to have hit tower two of the WTC.
WAVY NBC - Norfolk, VA (among other local TV stations I'm sure) is reporting on the air the Threatcon levels at the area Naval, Air Force, and Army bases. They are all at Threatcon Delta. Their website currently only lists their status as of the beginning of the attacks, which was Threatcon Charlie. Norfolk, VA is the home port for the US Atlantic Fleet. Local TV stations also are showing armed (M16s, shotguns) guards patrolling the base grounds and perimeters."
There are updated photos and videos here, and CarbonFusion wrote with another good link to photos and videos.. eddiem writes: "http://www.flightexplorer.com/ will soon let you view the flight path of the planes." Explanations of airport security at How Stuff Works and Cryptome are an interesting read under the circumstances as well.
Bard, Andrew wrote with some updates as well:
"Just to let you know:
- I heard a woman who was on the 92nd floor of the first WTC building when the plane hit it. She was able to escape and so was everyone "in her company" so it is assumed that virtually everyone from the 92nd floor down was evacuated successfully - an estimated 20,000 people of the 25,000 in the building.
- the plane that went down in PA had a woman onboard who locked herself in the bathroom with her cellular phone - she was telling authorities about the hijacking when the plane crashed and killed her - that is the only way the authorities knew for sure what plane went down in PA so quickly, she gave her flight number
- the Mexican border is completely closed and the Canadian border is still open - all International flights have been redirected to Northern Canada
- the planes from Boston were presumably chosen because they were going on long flights (to LA) which would make them larger than average airliners with full tanks of gas
- when the first WTC building crashed (which was the 2nd one to be hit), 125 firemen were down below fighting the fire on the first building to be hit... none of them have been heard from yet - 10,000 emergency personnel in NYC responded to the first WTC getting hit... it is unknown how many of those were crushed in the two collapsed buildings."
Link to Photos (Score:2, Insightful)
Better security on planes (Score:2, Insightful)
Innocents.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Abnormally high backbone utilization? (Score:4, Insightful)
The data at Internet Health Report [internethealthreport.com] would lead me to believe that, other than a higher-than-usual web browsing traffic to specific sites, it's business as usual for the majority of the internet.
I'd like to see any contrary information, though.
Re:Innocents.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Put another way, consider what the terrorists actually did: kill innocent civilians. All of the suspects (Muslims, domestic, etc.) would have been motivated by revenge. If we kill or harrass everyone who might be associated with a terrorists, in the hopes of silencing or scaring our enemies, we will have become terrorists ourselves - literally, acting by terror.
The US is already close enough to ruling by fear (note the "chilling effect" - Supreme Court's legal term - extended by the DMCA and other recent legislation, going far beyond the intent and, often, the letter of the law). It doesn't need to go further down that path just now.
The two 747's that landed in Whitehorse (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, my report regarding the escorted landing of two 747's at Whitehorse International Airport:
11:42am A Korean Airlines cargo 747-400 landed using every inch of available runway
11:50am We spotted another inbound jet
11:52am A Korea Airlines passenger 747 landed coming down just 15 feet above the fence....an awesome and scary sight from only 100 feet away. 3 F-18's (hard to say, they were pretty high up) escorted them in and continued to circle Whitehorse's airspace.
Luckily Whitehorse's runway had just been extended to facilitate 747's last year.
Emergency vehicles kept their distance from both planes, the passenger plane having taxied back to the north end of the runway, as far away from the terminal as possible.
A gray truck approached the passenger plane, dispersing ground personnel to chalk the wheels, then fell in behind an officer wielding a long barreled weapon and backed up behind the officer to the truck and departed the scene
A ramp was brought to the aircraft but no one left for about 20 minutes (at 12:36pm) when a single male came down and walked towards the police vehicles (we could hear the occasional word from a police loudspeaker) he made it about half way when he was obviously ordered to lift his shirt up, turn around, lift his pant legs, then he removed the shirt completely, holding it over his head while continuing to walk towards the vehicles. People with binoculars were able to see several FBI jackets amongst the police. There was a lear jet nearby which was probably used to get the FBI here from Alaska (since as far as I know we don't have any resident FBI in Yukon).
At 12:43pm we were ordered away from the area by the RCMP. Apparently for 'our own safety' - we were on crown land, outside the airport's perimeter fence.
There is the possibility that we may be receiving up to 10 planes, but I have no idea where they could park them.
Further information available at:
http://www.canoe.ca/MoneyNews/sept11_yukon-dow.
http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSWorldTrade0109/11_whit
http://cbc.ca/
My thoughts. (Score:2, Insightful)
My suggestion? I assume that there will be a fund set up to help those injured in these attacks, and their families. It may have been set up already. My suggestion - donate your tax rebates to this fund. I received a tax rebate from the UK government a couple of weeks ago - I intend to donate mine. It's the least I can do.
Take a deep breath... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now ask yourself:
What can I do to help?
What can I do to make sure nothing like this happens to ANYONE again?
What must I NOT do because it will just make things worse?
Take another deep breath...
Let it out slowly...
Now, go do what you know is right.
Stonewolf
Misc... (Score:5, Insightful)
I still find it difficult to bend my mind around the idea that today's attacks occurred not in Chechnya or Israel, but in the heart of American civilization. The very heart. I know, however, that America will survive this attack at punish those responsible. While perhaps "Pearl Harbor" is an extreme comparison, because we don't seem to be at war with a defined nation, it certainly will provoke almost as strong a change in public opinion and policy as that surprise attack.
Here at Macalester College in St. Paul, far far away from today's incidents, The state of MN has responded by shutting down the Mall of America and some of the larger buildings in downtown Mpls. and St. Paul. All over the cities, people are congregating, grieving for those lost and for the massive, mindless hatred and violence of today.
I think for millions of us, the most striking thing about this incident is its totally surreal nature. It is reminiscent of the end of Fight Club, or some kind of cartoonish super-villiany. The incident in Oklahoma City seemed far more within the realm of reality than "The destrucion of the WTC and a chunk of the Pentagon?!? Oh, please!"
In my opinion the best photo I've seen is located here. [btinternet.com] I suspect it'll be on the cover of TIME or Newsweek.
As for those of you angry with Mr. Katz for being trite: FUCK YOU! Thousands of people are DEAD and you have the balls to be angry with a man who's lost someone and prayed about it?! Only on the anonymous Internet would a person dare to tell someone they were being trite mourning a friend lost violently. You cruel bastards...
Oh on one last note, remember the trailers for the Spiderman movie? Will the scene with a bad-guy helicopter caught by a web between the WTC towers be kept for final theatrical release??
Observations on secondary vs. primary news sites (Score:4, Insightful)
That said, I found that Slashdot was not the right source for news today. The news I got here was delayed (the stories) or hard to sift through (the posts). I found great fringe material (red cross info, missing persons sites, etc) and lots of mirrored material (thanks to all!) but it was diluted by speculation, rumor, flames and unchecked emotion. On the plus side, there was also support, prayers and many thoughtful discussions. Again, this diluted the news for better or for worse.
Instead, I found ananova to be the best site on the net today, with a simple, chronological list of relevent wire reports: ananova.com topic focus [ananova.com].
But I suspect I will find Slashdot to be the best site on the net for reflection over the next week or so.
Note, that this isn't criticism, but observation. Slashdot is more a community than a news source. This was an interesting mini-revelation for me today. Maybe Slashdot needs a QuickNews feature which lets stories go up faster (and get pulled down faster when proved inaccurate or inappropriate). I think a community run, up-to-the-minute news source would be valuable. Just some thoughts...
Re: My God, what happened? (Tragedy of the commons (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Better security on planes (Score:2, Insightful)
As for better protecting the cockpit, I agree. Maybe something more than a cloth curtain or particle board door is in order, how about someting like steel with a keyless deadbolt? Maybe a firearm in a lockbox in the cockpit? Something that can actually keep people out.
Re:Better security on planes (Score:3, Insightful)
The thing that scares me most. (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember that in Pearl Harbor there was a *clear objective and "visible" enemy*.
WWI, WWII, were the same.
Desert storm/shield was quoted by Bush Sr as "not going to be another Viet-nam" for the simple reason that if you go in shooting and stay w/o a reason...you've lost already.
Is this the same?
This has elements of Perl Harbor because it has been brought to our soil, but the elements of Viet-nam are the "enemy" has yet to show himself...That *scares* the hell out of me, and makes me even angrier.
Moose.
mod me? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hairbrained idea, mod up if you think it's good (please). Here's what the dihard SlashDot'ers NEED to do (if you agree mod this up!)
I am about to mirror some of what I found, sometime somewhere soon, TBA.... I hope we can band together to pull off a media spread fast and informative.
Comment on Trademarks and Copywrights: Screw them, this is too important. DO NOT white out sources, GIVE FULL CREDIT IF YOU CAN!!! But, we want the news spread clear and fast, with as much detail as we can. So, give credit, and if they don't make the credits for the photos or media clear enough in the content, it's THIER FAULT for not taking credit... Let's just mirror shit so we don't choke down the major news sites and the best photos we can find.
Re:Excellent. (Score:1, Insightful)
As far as anyone knows, it might have been Americans who did it.
Alternative to giving blood (Score:4, Insightful)
Gerv
Re:Better security on planes (Score:5, Insightful)
A hijacking usually means that the plane is redirected to another location and the hostages are traded for some demands, etc etc.
Now I think that people will fight back a lot harder the next time someone tries to hijack a plane with a knife.
Re:Our leaders are very thoughtful w/ open minds. (Score:1, Insightful)
Has it occured to you that they have ALOT better intelligence info on the subject that you and I right now? Time will tell the facts...but they haven't made anything that I consider a bad move yet. Quite the opposite. Don't make it sound like they are closed minded as they more than likely know whats going on a little bit before you and I...and that is for an honest national security reason under circumstances such as this. What do you want? A broadcast of the battle plan now?
Hatch has got the right idea as far as I am concerned. Unfortunately...getting pounded seems to be all that they will understand, again, unless you know alot of things the rest of us don't.
Re:Afghanistan? (Score:3, Insightful)
Congrats Taco & the rest of the /. crew (Score:1, Insightful)
Congratulations and Thanks!
Re:Innocents.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe they were raised on anti-american propoganda, maybe you were raised on anti-arab propoganda, whatever... ignorance, misunderstanding and hatred is responsible for this insanity. The first defense against this crap is to try to understand where it's coming from. Even if this comes down to nothing more than "know your enemy", you would be well advised to find out a little bit about why palestinians hate the US so much.
Re:the middle east (Score:3, Insightful)
First and foremost, I do NOT think the actions today are justified; it was a horrible act, and furthermore, not just an terrorist attack, but an -act of war-. The US should retaliate, should find whoever committed the act, and show that we will not take this sitting down.
OTOH, we have to understand why this happened. It's hard to look at things rationally when something like this happens, especially when its a direct attack to our country, but we still do need to understand why things happens so we can prevent it later.
Here, let me use an analogy that (most) of you will hopefully understand. When Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold shot up Columbine High School, there were a lot of people (especially here) who said that their acts were horrendous, but they understood why they were committed: the boys were bullied and tortured constantly for years; they were finally getting revenge, kamikaze style.
That said, (from what i've read) the Palestinians are extremely angry at the US because we supply Israel with weapons, money, and generally advocate their actions, and Israel in turn torture Palestinan citizens and generally treat them like shit (for lack of a better term). This is their act of revenge, and although I say we should understand it, it should definitely not go unpunished. However, simply destroying Afghanistan (which we can without a doubtr easily do) will do no good.
Furthermore, here's my guesses on how things will pan out:
Assuming we bomb (or attack) Afghanistan (not just bin Laden) there will be further retaliation, and eventually start another war. If other countries don't get involved, that'll be it, and hopefully it'll end as quickly as the Gulf War. If other countries do get involved, I can easily see this turning into a World War III. Let me mention that we do -not- want a WWIII, simply because of the arms technologies available now. (Nuclear and atomic weapons, biological and chemical warfare, etc)
Anyways, that's it for now, focus back to CNN....
Re:Not so strange (Score:3, Insightful)
However, you seem to believe that the actions of those in another country condemn the innocent citizens of that country.
I certainly hope you are simply speaking irrationally and out of reaction to your anger. For your words here are morally reprehensible. The actions you propose are exactly analogous to the actions of the terrorists.
Re:the middle east (Score:5, Insightful)
You failed to mention that since that time, two US embassies and a US destroyer were bombed, and Islamic extremists were responsible. Heck, the last time the World Trade Center was attacked, it was Islamic militants. It would seem safe to say that OK City was the exception rather than the rule.
"Let's face it, there's a whole lot of people out there that hate the US, and for good reason (I was going to put a list here, but it's really just about everyone except Israel, Japan, Western Europe, and Canada)."
Iran is democratizing little by little and is interested in normalizing relations with us. Lybia is desparately trying to find a way to get back on our good side without taking credit for Pan Am 103 (and may end up doing it anyway). More and more Eastern European countries want to join NATO. Several countries in South America want to join NAFTA (and is more or less the impetus behind the FTAA).
In general, its quite safe to say that the US-haters out there are a very vocal minority. In fact, Americans abroad get a bad rap because we tend to assume that everybody hates us.
"it's about time they stood up for themselves."
You describe what they did as "standing up for themselves?" I'm not sure whether to be angry at you or pity you.
"And, before you say "economic domination does not merit this kind of response" - let me pose this question - what other way is there to respond when you are facing an opponent who has the money, owns the world legal system (has the money), and owns large numbers of world politicians (has the money)?"
"The money" you describe tend not to ride on commercial jets. "The money" tends not to work in the World Trade Center (they just do business through them). "The money" tends not to work above-ground in the Pentagon. And yet these people saw fit to kill all these incidentals.
"Furthermore let's hope American citizens wake up to what their government and corporations are doing around the world in time to prevent more of these attacks, before they happen, because that is the only way to eliminate the problem."
OK, let me get this straight: You imply that what was done today was because of the way we treat the rest of the world, especially civillians. You imply that civillians are killed or exploited or whatever by the US. THAT justified killing a whole mess of our civilians.
HOWEVER, having OUR civilians slaughtered by the thouands means we have to tip-toe where everybody else can violate Geneva conventions as they please?
While I agree we need to be tempered while deciding on a response, your "logic" is extremely two-faced.
Re:Knives?! I don't buy it. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Another building collapsed (Score:2, Insightful)
Usually when something bad happens or something tragic occurs I can make people smile and make them laugh and find the brighter side of everything. Today not even I can really cheer myself up let alone others. How truly stunning and sad. I feel crushed not only from the loss of life but the symbolic gesture and the hard fight ahead of us as american people now.
We MUST NOT EVER let the terrorists take away our freedoms. There will be people in the government trying to pass very tough laws, for example a law banning encryption or something, and we must fight and fight hard. We cannot let this change our way of life AT ALL. We cannot let laws that take away our freedoms come to pass. Please people stay ever vigilant now more than ever. We cannot sacrifice our freedoms and let laws protect us, when in reality they take away our freedoms. To quote a famous quote, "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. " We cannot bend, we cannot break. None of the world can.
The prime minister of israel had some good perspective on this. This is an attack against civilization, not just us americans.
Jeremy
Possible solution (Score:2, Insightful)
Let's face it, today's airliners are NOT designed with security in mind.
Re:WTF!?!?! (Score:3, Insightful)
This could just be the beginning (Score:2, Insightful)
Someone else, whose comment I can't seem to find at the moment, asked why this couldn't have been the work for a small group. Looking at most terrorist groups, fielding one terrorist requires a support network of ~50 other people, in varying levels of involvement with the organization. If we assume that there were 3-4 terrorists per plane, that gives us an associated organization of 600-800 people. Please note, this is the size of the logistical support group and involved sympathizers, not the size of the active cadre which is the number usually shown in law enforcement estimates. Also, we're dealing with suicide bombers here (essentially). Suicide bombers are usually isolated for days or weeks immediately preceding their missions, and are closely attended during those days by people who are skilled in psychological manipulation and indoctrination and are able to psych the terrorist up for his mission. This is an activity which requires at least a small handful of people for each terrorist, which is going to leave us again with at least 30-50 people actively complicit in the plot. It's hard to find 12-16 people who are a- suicidal; b-can plan an attack like this and c-can exercise enough self-restraint over a to do b. It's much easier to have a large group do the planning and logistics, and then pull a handful of suicidal or martyrdom-ready individuals from their ranks.
S11? (Score:1, Insightful)
With it being Septembetr 11th and all...
And the fact that it was the WTC.
-- eVirtue Dragon
An excellent from the View Askew message board (Score:3, Insightful)
You can hit it here [viewaskew.com]...
I don't subscribe to those sentiments personally, but I have to admit that reading that made me stop, set aside my anger for a moment, and do some serious thinking.
Open Letter to US/Americans (Score:4, Insightful)
September 11th, 2001
Open Letter to US/Americans
I'm not from the US. I'm not from Middle East, nor from any of the parties involved or suspected to be involved in the incidents of this morning.
Although those events are shocking and extremely sad, this letter is not directly about them. It's about what you think about them.
After reading, watching and listening news today, I started to focus on Internet discussion forums. I had reviewed several times the enumeration of facts, so I started to look for the opinion of the PEOPLE.
I was shocked to find (among the pain, grief, and will to help) rage, desire for revenge (I said revenge, which is not the same as justice), and pleas for a war. This letter (I won't hide it) is an intention to change that, through reason. I know you might not change your opinion after reading this, but consider that you have nothing to lose reading it (well, a little time, actually), and I'm saying that you have a lot to win (a slightly better world, if you ask).
First of all, rage won't lead you to a solution, and I think that's plain clear. Even if you think that retalliation is the appropiate response, you probably agree that even retalliation must be planned using brains, not blind rage. If you think about today events, the terrorists that had enough hatred to suicide on a plane are dead (the raging fanatics), while probably the intellectual authors of today crimes (those who use brains) are celebrating their success somewhere else. If you agree that then we have a starting point for discussion.
A lot of people are saying "It's the Palestinians!" "It's the Afgans!" "It's the (Insert your least favorite country here)!". And a whole country is being put at judgement there. But think twice, without the rage. Think it the opposite way. Suppose some US/American hijacks a plane and crashes it over a building in my country. Would you like to have people in my country saying "It was the Americans!"?. Would you like to have the blame put on you? Would you like to return to your home and see that your wife and kids have been murdered by a "retalliation bomber"? Would you like to pay for the crimes someone else comitted?
Well, Palestinians don't like that. Afgans neither. Nor US/Americans. Not Argentinians (if you were wondering where I am from). And it's clear that NOBODY likes it because it's not right, in the more basic forms. It's a feeling so basic that even people with very different visions of the world like you and Palestinians agree on it. And believe: In any country of the world, most people are innocent, harmless people who want to live quietly and in peace, like you. So don't blame a nation. Blame the (probably small) group of people who were behind this, and use the power that your opinion gives to get them found and judged like any criminal. Don't help turn this into a bloodshed where most of the blood belongs to innocent people.
And yes, I'm saying your opinion is power, so use it for good. If you have the democracy you say you have, then that's the way it should be. Terrorism works by using that power you have to turn it to a given goal, that is, turning you into their weapon. Don't be a weapon of the terrorists, don't help them. The way to fight this war it's not to lose our temper, and not start killing people randomly (like some people are starting to think after the outrageous attacks of this morning... remember that war always takes innocent victims). So act quickly, and swiftly, and make sure the responsible for this are punished, but if you start a war against innocent people you'll just gain more enemies than before, and this will never end.
If you believe on what I said, please, spread this message. Consider that the rage and violence I have seen means that the terrorists are already winning. Whoever did this obviously wanted that, so don't give it to them. Keep your power to yourself, and use it to make this a better world
Sincerely,
Daniel F Moisset
dmoisset@arnet.com.ar
Re:gas hits $5/gallon, katz still insane (Score:2, Insightful)
1) Wholesale petroleum prices had not increased significantly.
2) The only shortages that were being experienced were caused by people flocking to the pumps in greater numbers than normal.
3) The widely varying increases statewide in Illinois (from nothing to upwards of $4.00 extra per gallon) indicates "dealer profiteering" driven by hysteria.
In my immediate area (Shiloh, Illinois), gas prices for 87 octane unleaded presently range from $1.49 (Casey's) to $2.05 (Mobil). Friends of mine in Edwardsville, Illinois saw prices shoot up during rush hour to $2.99 for 87 octane unleaded at an Amoco station.
My advice: remember these "price gouging" gas stations and avoid buying gas (or anything else, for that matter) from them when times aren't so tough.
The last thing our nation needs right now is a pack of bottom-feeding, opportunistic gas stations.