Is StarOffice Ready To Take On Office?

A reader writes "CNET has an article about: Is StarOffice ready to take on MS Office? A quote: "Bottom line for Sun and StarOffice: If you keep aiming where Microsoft has already been, then your opportunities will be in China. A better tactic is to take aim at where the IT market is going to be and your opportunities will be much wider.""

Parallel to Win vs. Linux?

[FortKnox]

Do you see a parallel to windows vs. linux?

The biggest point he's made is the user familiarity. Something difficult to overcome. Something that Linux has been working on to try and grab the Windows population.

Say what you must, but everytime I show KDE to Windows only users, they look puzzled. The minute I pop up a terminal, they're gone. Its the familiarity that's the hardest wall to scale. People don't like change.

Correctness first.

[davec]

Before Star Office talks about taking on Microsoft Office, they should get the spreadsheet to give correct results. As it is now, I'd rather use Visicalc with an Apple ][ emulator.

Not really

[Ryn]

A group of developers at my company has tried converting to StarOffice. That attempt has lasted for a couple of weeks, when people were trying to get the needed functionality out of the SO (something to do with spreadsheets). Bottom line is: we are still using MS Office, and no matter which way you look at it, it's simply allowing better functionality. Office 2000 may not be the best app bundle in the world, but it certainly does the job better than SO.

Re:staroffice question

[ethereal]

The latest OpenOffice, based on the StarOffice codebase, is downloaded in one big chunk but then you can select which components to install. Rather than firing up the StarOffice "desktop" MDI, OpenOffice (as well as the next release of StarOffice) will be going to a more Unix-like single-window-per-document arrangement.

Funny

[l33t j03]

The funny part is that you state:

Is StatOffice Ready To Take On Office?

Note that you don't have to state MS Office, because everyone already knows what you mean. No, StarOffice is not ready to take on Office.

It needs perfect import/export

[bobalu]

What it really needs to make it is perfect file compatibility with Office. When you multiply the cost of Office by thousands of employees it's a serious chunk of change, and in a recession some smaller companies might finally be willing to try it.

I don't know about all this, but

[WhiteWolf666]

I have been using Star Office for awhile, after I dumped Office 2000.

I'm sorry to say, I actually like it. I have even encouraged people to install it.

Yes, it may not have all of Office 2000's functionality, but it is close, and there are several benefits.

1. It's free(as in beer, but not as in speech (read on, however).
2. It's cross-platform. There are linux binaries (and solaris, I believe) on sun's website. This may just be the office suite of choice for linux (at least beginning linux users) users, as it does not require much to get it working.
3. 6.0 looks really sweet.
Plus, come one, people. It has 98% the functionality of office 2000. That is good enough for at least 75% of people out there, because most people don't use the bloated features avaliable in office. Yes, you have to do things slightly differently. But generally, whatever you wanted to do in office, can be done in staroffice.
While my third point is kind of irrelevant (it makes me hopeful, though), I think the first two are serious advantages that IBM/Lotus/Corel don't have. Sure, you could get Corel's Java Wordperfect, but it kind of sucked, and it didn't have all the features of star office, and the full version cost money.

Finally, StarOffice is forming the core of OpenOffice, which has (IMHO) the potential to become fantastic. In fact, the first full featured beta is avaliable, I may just switch.

As it is, however, even if StarOffice falls off the face of the earth, methink the project is a success. There are a substantial number of users (maybe not compared to Office 2000, but a fair number nevertheless), it's free as in beer, it forms the core of an office suite that is free as in speech, and is cross-platform.

OK, A bit of a new thread here...

[taliver]

I'm going to suggest some things that I don't believe Microsoft has put into office. With any luck, either KOffice or StarOffice are listening and will look at these features:

1. Make a presentation software that's not completely limited to the slide show format. The metaphor should be a stage, and allow for notes on slides, multiple projectors, speakers, etc. Imagine a networked display system between three laptops (two for display, one to control/syncronize, an have your notes on it).

2. Combine word with CVS and give complete modification histories, and keep all undos in files. Sure, they grow large, but you could also show precise branches and replay changes done by one person on another file.

3. A Spreadsheet program that has HUGE libraries of functions, and allows other functions to be written in any language under the sun, compiled, and then used nicely. Also, allowing spreadsheets to use scripts from the command line would be nice.

4. Speaking about the command line, how about a nifty little piping interface that allows for a tool setup with all sorts of little switches on each icon (representing the different switches on the command line) and then drag pipes from one command to another, then let the data flow in.

Just my 2 cents.

Re:It needs

[shinji]

I hate the fact that people say it needs to have better this filters and importers. (My documents can't be imported well.) Microsoft is to blame for this. They have closed file formats and filters have to be reversed engineered. If they used a nice open format converting could be a snap. Of course then they would have to compete on the level is my (spreadsheet|editor|etc) better and easier to use than anyone elses. Its high time users demanded interoperiablity and the way you do this is you don't pony up the bucks until a company adds the features you want.

Not ready

[j7953]

Is StarOffice Ready To Take On Office?

As long as people can say Office, and everyone knows they're referring to what is actually called Microsoft Office, no, StarOffice doesn't have a big change.

Fonts

[geophile]

Setting up decent-looking fonts under Linux is still difficult. I think that this is the major
issue blocking the use of SO as a serious alternative to Office.

SO 5.2's MDI blows clunks

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate MDI's they stink.

Hell, even MS finally got rid of most of their own MDI's.

Re:Not ready

[jasondlee]

Is that like how people don't say Microsoft Windows instead of Windows? Does that mean X Windows will never catch on until people start noticing the difference? We call X Windows 'X' for the same reason people call MS Office 'Office': we're lazy. Sure, most people don't know there are options, but, come on...

jason

Programmer Snobbery

[bwoodring]

> Many rank and file clerical type employees do > not want to learn some new software.

Just curious, how often do you use Office applications? How advanced of a user are you? Is it possible that those "rank and file" clerical workers are actually right? That switching to a new office suite will cost them many hours of productivity?

It is for programmers to talk about switching office suites, because most of us don't use them very often. I use office for maybe 2 or 3 hours per week. But if you spend eight hours a day in Word and Excel, those small differences matter a lot.

Think of it this way: Say I decided to take away your vi and replace it with emacs (or vice versa). Simple enough, right? They are both text editors and you will figure out the differences, quickly enough. Besides, you're probably already marginally familiar with the other one anyway.

The reality is, that if you're a veteran programmer, you are probably intimately familiar with your text editor, and replacing it with a new one would cost you many hours. If you are a veteran "rank and file" clerical worker, you are probably intimately familiar with Word or Excel and changing office suites would cost you a lot of lost hours.

Switching Office suites in a corporation is an extremely expensive proposition. Even if the software is free (hell, even if Sun paid you), for most companies it is a bad deal.

Re:Tell me about it

[Arandir]

People always scream about change. But it happens anyway. Otherwise Microsoft would never have become a monopoly.

I remember when a million secretaries were dragged kicking and screaming from WordPerfect to MS Word.

Re:StarOffice's ace in the hole

[hey!]

StarOffice definitely has an in-your-face kind of design. It just wants to be your everything, including your browser, mailer and desktop. It is awkward if you aren't working exclusively within its confines and doesn't offer any particularly wonderful benefits if you do.

I suspect that's why people who've tried it don't like it, it's too restrictive. If I offered you free shoes which hurt, would that be a good bargain? I know I prefer simpler, less "integrated" and more deferential kinds of programs like Abiword. I've used the OpenOffice versions of the StarOffice programs and liked them much better for being shorn of the irritating attempt to take over your screen with a duplicate desktop. It isn't very polished yet, but I could very well live with it. In fact, I've stopped using Office except when I need to exchange files or use MS Access.

There's lots of good stuff in there, it just needs time and reorganization.

Re:Want to take on Office?

[Pengo]

You forgot

5) Convince MS to enforce a method of stoping piracy of Office letting only people that *gasp* pay use it. Also convince MS to include advanced phone home features, complicated authentication / license rules, etc. Surely this would be the best thing for a free-beer alternative.

Why people should check out Star Office

[Eloquence]

The article misses the point. The point is not functionality. The point is

FREEDOM.

Freedom is the reason you should check out OpenOffice [openoffice.org], K Office [koffice.org], Evolution, Gnumeric etc. [ximian.com]. Remember: Sun has GPL'd Star Office's source code. That means that everyone can peek at it and change it -- that means you don't have to worry that the next version of the product will fuck with you because if it will, enough developers will be pissed off enough to fork and fix it. You don't have to worry about Passport, .NET, talking paperclips, proprietary file formats or "Smart Tags", or whatever Microsoft's current strategy of becoming Big Brother is.

This is relevant not only for individuals and for corporations. Choosing OpenOffice now is reasonable long term thinking, something most individuals seem incapable of. Yes, Sun would behave just as badly as Microsoft in Microsoft's shoes, but with OpenOffice under the GPL, there's not really much that can go wrong. The file format is also open, XML-based and documented and can be legally implemented by anyone.

Freedom is not just an ideological point. If you trust all your critical documents to a closed source software corporation, you are dependent on them and on their decisions, which will hurt your bottom line -- and, in the long term, hurt you much more than training your personnel to use an alternative.

The bottom line is that if you care about freedom, you shouldn't have to go to China -- you have to look at the alternatives. If you don't do that, you have no right whatsoever to complain that you have none later.

Another parallel: bazaar-mode training

[Guil Rarey]

One way to get past the user learning curve issues is to work inside your organization to build up a community of clueful users who can be available to coach and train their colleagues.

This is a deliberate parallel to the development mode employed by Linux: Self-selection of the self-motivated, rewarded by recognition and tangible rewards. Encourage your power users to communicate and share tips and techniques, with each other first, then with other users. How about a tip o' the month award (cheesy but fun)? Develop programs to encourage and reward them for sharing their skills, especially public recognition and feedback at performance review time ($$$$$$$$$) for those who take the time and effort to share their skills and make the cube-dwelling troglo...err..co-workers... around them more productive.

Yeah, it's not hacking. There's not one line of code in all of that. But it needs to be done.