Microsoft vs. Ximian

Kappelmeister writes "The open source movement gets some great mainstream press today as the Washington Post reports tht Ximian's Volunteer 'Army' Fights Microsoft on Open-Source Code. It mentions Linux progress in the server market, Shared Source, and how both sides are courting Mexican President Vincente Fox for use in his 'eMexico' initiative to get 98 percent of the population online. Best of all, though, it tells a lot of people that there is a decent alternative to Microsoft software."

Re:The place to start

[SlamMan]

No! School systems are not the place to have linux right now. If a high school can get it work, then more power too them. But high schools and elem/middle schools are totally different beasts. Elememntry and middle schools computer systems are usually run by aids, not full time and paid teachers. The requirements to be an aid or almost rediculously low, and many of the people in those positions are bearly meeting the requirements. If you were compitent to get linux running for an entire school, wouldn't you be working at some place that paid a bit more? In addition, there jsut isn't software to run on linux computer in the low levels. They use some word processing, sure, but most of the fsoftware is almong the lines of "spellavator" or "number munchers." This kind, amount, and quality of educational of software just isn't around for linux. In addition, think oof what the user/techie ratio is where any of you work. Add a zero to it, and thats how overworked techs in the school system are. School systems need things that set up easily, run flawlessly, and never ever need system administration. Now, linux runs great, but thats by one of us setting it up. tech's in school systems have this lovely tendency to be teachers that got sick of teaching. No real rechnical aptitutde required.

The interesting thing in the article

[wiredog]

Is the description of Microsofts' reaction.

Microsoft, meanwhile, seems to be having trouble deciding how to respond to this new business model.

It's "a cancer," Microsoft officials said. "An intellectual-property destroyer." Almost un-American.

Then Microsoft executives began to "clarify" that stance

the company clarified its clarification

Those of us who read the Post daily (the dead tree version has a nice picture of Miguel and the Ximian HQ, btw) will notice an interesting parallel to the style used when the Post is going after a political figure. "Almost un-American" and "clarified its clarification" are classic ways of attacking spin.

It was alot of fun reading this while drinking my coffee this morning. Great way to start the day.

decent alternative

[Proud Geek]

I'd feel much better about this whole thing if Linux actually were a decent alternative to a M$ Windows desktop. There are certainly places for Linux in a program like this, particularly in the infrastructure. Unfortunately I feel like I'm pushing substandard goods as a Free software advocate in cases like this.

I know Richard Stallman says we should always use Free software because it is a morally superior thing to do. However I worry about the future when we are using technology that is inferior, just because it may save a bit of money. There are a lot of people counting on this initiative!

Microsoft vs. Ximian?

[ethereal]

But wait, I thought Ximian and Microsoft were collaborating on .Net, not competing? How can it be that those sweet boys from Redmond aren't planning to play nice? Well, this is totally unexpected. I entirely share Miguel's dismay at this unforseeable and calamitous turn of events!

OK, maybe I'm not so dismayed after all :) I hope Miguel isn't surprised either...

Re:How to open the govenrment comm link

[mikey504]

Get involved. Write letters. They *do* get counted, even if they don't count for anything until they hit critical mass. They may not read your letter any longer than it takes to tally another count for the open source zealot column, but they are at least going to do that. No one likes to lose a vote.

Be aware that in a majority rule system, it is hard for a minority (informed computer users) to find a voice. But the "ruling class" always seem to manage OK, and there aren't many of them. How do they do it? They make noise and they spend money.

So, donate to EFF, buy products based on open source, and encourage your company to do the same. For example, I order new systems with commercial Linux distro's on them even though they will most likely end up with Debian installed by the time they go into service. Sure, it's a drop in the bucket (we are a very small company) but we do what we can. I try to buy switches and hubs that have the "works with linux" stickers on the box. I know there isn't really any difference, but I want to reinforce the idea for hardware manufacturers that "support for linux = more $$$".

Hopefully Red Hat and others will eventually have enough cash to grease a few wheels. It only takes one lunch with a Senator where someone says "Please don't put us out of business... and by the way did you see that we contributed a little something to Furman's computer lab? Doesn't little Margory go to Furman? What a pleasant coincidence. I do hope to see you at the next campaign rally" to swing a vote at the next committee meeting.

I'm one of those people who believes that lobbyists exert far too much leverage with our representatives, and most of it does not work in our favor.

Lobbyists do what they do with CASH. I am not sure that Linux and related technology needs to be commercialized to survive, but we (the community) do need to buy or beg at least enough influence to make sure we don't get patented and DMCA'ed out of the game. I just moved the last vestiges of our file services off of NT, and I am now enjoying reduced maintenance time while I brace for the first SAMBA patent infringement lawsuit. I will lose "boy genius" status with my boss in a heartbeat when that hits the papers.

I don't car if Linux never gets more than 25% of the corporate server market-- as long as there still *is* a Linux, and as long as there remains enough incentive and legal freedom to allow the kernel hackers, the Gnu guys, the Samba team, and the Apache team to keep doing what they have been doing for us for all this time. (I am not leaving KDE/Gnome and others out on purpose, I just already feel like I am starting to ramble.) In a lot of ways I think the changes needed to make Linux suitable for mass consumption are in danger of making it unsuitable for people like me. But that is another story-- as long as the config files stay "human readable" and documented we will all be OK.

An argument I don't understand

[Laplace]

The Free Software Foundation has recently started to promote the idea that all software should be free. This includes open source, free software, and (currently) proprietary software. To clarify that statement, Microsoft keeps their source secret, and the FSF feels that the source should be made available for all to view, modify, and redistribute. This is a point that was touched upon in the Washington Post article.

I don't understand this point of view. I am very supportive of free software as a choice. I like GNU software. I prefer to use free and open source software (yes, I do recognise the distinction between the two). In my personal life I have been free of Microsoft for over a year, and mostly free from it in my career. However, I appreciate and respect the copyright that Microsoft (and other software companines) holds on their software.

By stating that "all software must be free, no matter who developed it," I believe that the FSF is shooting itself in the foot. By crippling itself with such extremism, the FSF takes away opportunities to convince people that by having a choice, they can make the choice to improve their futures by choosing free software. The FSF political tendencies seem to be closer to dictatorship rather than the common attack of communism. Even if a dictatorship is benevolent, it is still a dictatorship.

Free Software has come so far, and has improved the quality of our lives so much. Preaching the word of freedom while advocating the removal of freedoms is counterproductive. Can anyone give a rational explanation as to why the FSF and its advocates push this unintuitive line of thought?

KDE.

[Anonymous Coward]

I normally try to avoid posting total flamebait, and I would point out that I do not speak for the KDE project, but am an independent third party-:

Linux does have a viable alternative to MS - in the form of KDE, Konqueror, KMail, and KOffice.

de Icaza and GNOME raise plenty of publicity, but KDE is where the good stuff happens. In fact, by drawing attention away from KDE, de Icaza is really doing Microsoft a favour.

The longer NIH syndrome keeps KDE out of the American public eye, the more ground microsoft gains in America. KDE has pretty much taken over the Asian and european sector, and is considered a viable alternative to windows by many private companies and government institutions.

A decent alternative!

[mcrbids]

Boy, stuff like this just makes me laugh. Have you actually USED KDE 2.x?

As a desktop, it BLOWS WINDOWS AWAY...

Multiple simultaneous desktops, multiple simultaneous users. Configuring menus in KDE is every bit as easy as configuring the Start menu in Windows. User customizable panel menus (like the start button, 'cept you can have more than one)

Move programs between desktops with two clicks. (right click -> move to -> desktop X) Lots of games.

Lots of other nice touches, such as "highlight an URL in ANY program. You immediately get the option to open it in your browser of choice."

Kmail is super easy to use and supports any number of e-mail accounts, and has an excellent filtering system. Address book support, etc.

I just migrated an 8-site corporation to Star Office from MS-Office - no complaints; its working great...

It's very stable, running for weeks on end w/o restarting X-Windows. (note: X-Windows, not operating system)

In short, what's not the decent offering?

Sheesh....

Re:An argument I don't understand

[10am-bedtime]

people misunderstand fsf position as "extreme". well, another way to think about it is: the bedrock you build your house on is quite extreme. extremely stable (unless on pacific rim ;-), extremely low (usually underground), extremely boring. this extremism is a feature, not a bug. same goes for fsf position.

hope that helps clear up this common misconception.