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Return of The Holy Grail to the Silver Screen 222

Posted by Hemos
from the let's-go-out-to-the-movies dept.
Adam writes: "That's right - the Grail will soon be back in theaters (or theatres), with 24 seconds of previously unreleased footage!"
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Return Of The Holy Grai

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    ...I've soiled my armor, I'm so excited. ;)
  • "!.....I..I don't know -
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......"
  • by Anonymous Coward
    I thought the most successful trolls were the subtle ones, not the obvious ones. Good job.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    ...the gayest troll ever.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14, 2001 @12:32PM (#150289)
    IN A.D. 952
    QUEST WAS BEGINNING

    ARTHUR: What happen?
    LANCELOT: Somebody set up us the grail
    BORS: We get signal
    ARTHUR: What !
    BORS: Main screen turn on
    ARTHUR: It's you !!
    FRENCHMAN: How are you Englishmen ??
    FRENCHMAN: ALL YOUR GRAIL ARE BELONG TO US
    FRENCHMAN: You are on the way to taunting
    ARTHUR: What you say !!
    FRENCHMAN: You have no chance to survive make your time
    FRENCHMAN: HA HA HA HA ...
    ARTHUR: Take off every 'TROJAN RABBIT'
    ARTHUR: You know what you doing
    ARTHUR: Move 'RABBIT'
    ARTHUR: For great Camelot!
  • Now I have to re-memorize it from scratch!

    --
    Forget Napster. Why not really break the law?

  • The extra footage has been on the laserdisk edition for ages.


    ...phil
  • Call me tasteless, but I just don't fine Holy Grail all that funny... Worth watching once, sure, but... it's just not that good a movie.
  • Rob needs a new hof category: most moderated posting.

    That would be excellent. But this post wouldn't be in it - it's only got 27 moderations so far, I've seen trolls score in the 80's.. :-)

  • by alewando (854) on Thursday June 14, 2001 @12:31PM (#150294)
    Thirty years ago, sure. Back in the late sixties and early seventies, the civilized world plus Yorkshire was a bleak and desolate place devoid of joy and humor. But why do people still find Monty Python funny today?

    There's been a whole lot of progress in the last thirty years. Monty Python may have been pioneers of a sort, and they sure made the BBC cringe like no one had before. But do they really hold a candle to Full House or Pee Wee's Great Adventure or any of the other brilliant programs that have followed? No.

    It says a lot more about geek culture than about the quality of Monty Python's work that they've persisted as long as they have. Geeks, though they pretend to be iconoclasts on the cutting edge of technological and cultural revolutions, are really as conservative and scared of change as the people they deride. They cling to Monty Python, because they can feel rest assured that their adulation is justified, that Monty Python is officially and canonically funny. The fact that millions of scraggly geeks with crunchy socks have memorized the exact same jokes and the exact same non sequitors doesn't detract from Monty Python's appeal. Indeed, it only reinforces its appeal, since it gives geeks the sense of community and brotherhood they crave so much for not having it in the real world.

    Monty Python's back in the theatres, eh? Well, I think I'll sit this one by. I've already seen the Holy Grail once or twice on my trips to the middle east, so why would I want to see it again in the theatres? If you ask me, Monty Python's sun has already set.
  • well, they published a script, looks like they took the marked up shooting script, stuck in some stills, and sent it to the printers. I bought it in a English edition 20 or so years ago. That has not just the script for the sceen (with a big slash through each page in what looks like marker or crayon) but also stills for the King Brian The Wild sceen, so footage was shot.
  • OK, I just got done getting the DVD release, and now they're talking about a fall release of the DVD? What gives? Also, what of the talk about Life of Brian or The Meaning of Life? They're already on DVD now... are they re-releaseing those as well?

    A little confused...

  • This is my theory, my theory alone, beloning to me...

    Heh! I just now noticed how much the speech patterns of Anne Elk resemble Mojo Jojo!

    --

  • Terry Jones also wrote the (IMHO-not-so-funny) novelization of Douglas Adams' Starship Titanic a couple years back.
  • Now if only we could get the Godfather trilogy on DVD, I'd never have to leave the house again.

    The Godfather DVD Collection scheduled for reales October 9th 2001. Pre-order at will :-)

  • There's alot of comedy out there that requires a lot of knowledge of current events to see what's funny about it (SNL, most of the late night shows). This kind of humor doesn't age well. How many people nowadays would be able to laugh at jokes about WWII or even WWI era events?
    Imagine how much time it'd take to explain a joke about FDR's "New Deal"...

    Then there is comedy that is still funny many years after it was done. (IMHO, Marx Brothers, Sid Caesar, Monty Python, Mel Brooks...)

    A lot of comedy is aimed towards the general public. The stuff that stays funny over the years seems to me to be stuff that was aimed at a more sophisticated audience. Humor that requires a bit of thinking seems to age better... (Mostly--there are exceptions, like slapstick, that can still be funny...)
  • by ewhac (5844) on Thursday June 14, 2001 @12:49PM (#150301) Homepage Journal

    (Apologies for the discombobulation, this is the only part of the Holy Grail I have not memorized. It's just too convoluted...)

    Wuss. The following, though not scrupulously perfect, is from memory.

    KING: Make sure the prince doesn't leave this room until I come and get him.
    GUARD: Not to leave the room, even if you come and get him.
    KING: No no, until I come and get him.
    GUARD: Until you come and get him, we're not to enter the room.
    KING: No no. You stay in the room, and make sure he doesn't leave.
    GUARD: And you'll come and get him.
    KING: Right.
    GUARD: We're not to do anything apart from just stop him entering the room.
    KING: No no, leaving the room.
    GUARD: Leaving the room, yes.
    KING: Got it?
    GUARD: Oh! Oh, if we... er, if he... Uh...
    KING: Look, it's quite simple.
    GUARD: Er...
    KING: You two just stay here, and make sure he doesn't leave. Got it?
    GUARD: Oh, I remember. Er, can he leave the room with us?
    KING: No, I want you to keep him in here, and make sure...
    GUARD: Oh, we'll keep him in here, obviously. But if he had to leave, and we were with him...
    KING: No, just keep him in here...
    GUARD: Until you or anyone else...
    KING: No, not anyone else, just me...
    GUARD: Just you...
    KING: Get back.
    GUARD: Get back.
    KING: ...Right?
    GUARD: Right, we'll stay here until you get back.
    KING: And make sure he doesn't leave.
    GUARD: Hmm?
    KING: Make sure he doesn't leave.
    GUARD: The prince?
    KING: Yes! Make sure he...
    GUARD: Oh! I'm sorry, I thought you meant him. (indicates other guard) Y'know it seemed a bit daft me having to guard him when he's a guard.
    KING: Is that clear?
    GUARD: Oh, quite clear, no problems.

    [ KING turns to leave; GUARDS move to follow. ]

    KING: Where are you going?
    GUARD: We're coming with you.
    KING: No, I want you to stay here, and make sure he doesn't leave!
    GUARD: Oh, I see. Right.

    Schwab
    Shameless show-off

  • Hopefully it isn't 24 more seconds of that annoying intermission music that is played at the end. Do do do do do do de. du ta du du de de de do...
  • No, you're thinking of the theme music from the TV show. I was talking about the organ music that is played durring the intermission and at the very end when the screen is black.
  • John Cleese made many industrial training films as well.

    As well as one about business ethics that was hilarious. They showed it in one of our Engineering Business classes. Gets the points across but with great humor.
  • Are you suggesting DVD's migrate?
  • ...its resting!
  • the Grail laserdisc was packed with extras. they had at least one (and it may be more - it's been many years since i've seen the ld) commentary tracks, many language tracks & subtitles, and some extra footage.

    my favorite was the french taunter scene, where they had subtitles with the english translation of the japanese translation (that's english -> japanese -> english) of the dialog. it was hysterical seeing how badly the frenchman's insults were translated.

    i sure hope they do a completely new transfer from the original film for this re-release. 'cos the one on the current dvd sucks rocks. picture is way too dark, and there are tons of compression artifacts.
    ---
  • More Info:

    The historic landmark Rialto in South Pasadena, CA will also be screening MP&THG starting Friday June 22, with three shows a day on weekdays and five on weekends.

    (I've been given a free guest pass by the manager! I can't wait!)

  • I wonder if this time they've FINALLY sacked those responsible for all the Mooses appearing in the opening titles.
  • Apparently the trolls are not only posting, but moderating, as well. Feeding time, I guess (I'm bored).

    But why do people still find Monty Python funny today?

    Because many of the themes that Python used back then are still valid targets of parody, mockery, and general silliness. The sheer range of targets over the four years of TV episodes guarantee that almost everyone can, on some level, relate to and find humor in the situations of the television show.

    Yes, people (mis)quoting the movie(s) gets old after a while, but how many people have actually seen the TV shows? The Python-a-thon was probably the coolest thing Comedy Central ever did (for New Year's 94-95), and I absolutely loved the German TV shows.

    The show operates on two levels; not only is it filled with one-liners and sight gags, but the intelligence of the creators comes through in the simple concepts of the skits. C'mon, do you really see shows nowadays making skits about German and Greek philosophers playing soccer? Do you really see most of America getting the humor in such a skit?

    So, yes, the Holy Grail in theaters may be something to pass on. Just don't assume the movies are the sole (noticeable) creation by Python. And if you still don't accept this, please remove the pole from your arse before you consider posting anymore flamebait like this.

    -jdm

  • No kidding. It's really lame how some studios have slapped together shoddy DVD releases (I actually didn't think the _Holy Grail_ DVD was that bad, but I'm not an MP connoiseur) just so they can re-release the all-singing, all-dancing super edition within a year.

    For an even more egregious example, examine the shoddy, non-anamorphic, "old" Kubrick DVD set as compared to the marginally flashier (but DD 5.1 and anamorphic) one which came out this week. "Uh, wouldn't you mind spending $200 for the DVDs we should have sold you in the first place?" Movie execs that authorize non-anamorphic DVDs, knowing full well how worthless they'll be come 2006, should be castrated and strung up by DVI cable. (I didn't buy the "old" Kubrick set, but I know people who did.)

    I guess that the Randroids will all tell me that it's OK because the market will bear it, but I still think it's pretty dirty to throw together a half-assed product so that you can sell twice as many to fans when you release an acceptable version. The market will bear anything when you have consumers by the balls. In this respect (and only in this respect), Lucas isn't being an ass by not releasing the Star Wars films on DVD.


    ~wog

  • Legally, the movie studios can release whatever the hell they want. If you don't like it, start making your own damn movies.... You can thank George Lucas and his Star Wars "re-releases" for the re-release line of thinking.
    I made no complaints about the legality of DVD re-releasing, nor would I wish for such a practice to be illegal. I fully agree that the proper response to these activities is to boycott the products, and that's the stance I've taken. However, it's especially egregious for a studio to release a DVD and then re-release within 24 months it with baseline, de-facto-required DVD features like 5.1 sound and anamorphic video. Lucas' re-releases (whether you like them or not -- I am ambivalent) at least changed the actual movie, rather than merely mastering it properly for a given format. (Lucas also remastered the series to his THX standards, but he had not yet developed those at the time of the original films' release on VHS -- unlike anamorphic video and Dolby Digital 5.1, which have been with us pretty much as long as the DVD format itself.)
  • At the end of 2006 (or 2005?) the US Federal Communications Comission will drop all licenses for analog broadcasters and digital, widescreen TV will be your only option. At that time, any non-anamorphic DVDs will be playable only by using the "zoom" feature of most DVD players, resulting in a grainy mess.
  • Actually, Kubrick shot on 35 milimeter in a 4:3 aspect ratio.
    Mea culpa. I wasn't aware of this. (I know James Cameron prefers 4:3 as well.) The point remains, though, that an anamorphic transfer would allow the viewer to choose an appropriate aspect ratio for her TV and viewing preferences, and would do so in the most elegant way possible, without wasting precious resolution for hardcoded letterboxes.

    (I read a review of the old _2001_ DVD -- I think it was from Widescreen Review -- that said that the letterboxes weren't even black.)

  • by Mr. Flibble (12943) on Thursday June 14, 2001 @12:30PM (#150315) Homepage
    Patron to movie employee: Right! You stay here and make certain that the movie does not leave the cinema!

    Employee: Right, we will stay here until the movie leaves the theater.

    Patron: No, you stay here, and make certain the movie does not leave.

    Employee: Right, we wont let people enter the theater.

    Patron: No you STAY here until...

    (Continue until Lancelot appears)

    (Apologies for the discombobulation, this is the only part of the Holy Grail I have not memorized. It's just too convoluted...)

  • by Mr. Flibble (12943) on Thursday June 14, 2001 @12:45PM (#150316) Homepage
    ...so why would I want to see it again in the theatres? If you ask me, Monty Python's sun has already set.

    Why would someone want to watch a movie twice? Heck, I have seen Star Wars, I don't need to buy it again. I don't need the merchandising. Oh, I have read the Lord of the Rings once a year for the last 14 years, and I guess I won't have to go see the movie either because I know what happens!

    ...Errr.... No.

    A few years back, the Meaning of Life appeared at a theater, here. I own the movie. I went to see it anyways. It was great watching this movie on the big screen (no cropping!) and, the best bonus, being there with a bunch of my friends, and a theater full of rabid Python fans.

    The only thing about Monty Python and popular culture (read, Star Wars, Matrix, etc...) that is different, is that the Pythons were very talented and an extremely well educated bunch. Their sort of humor appeals more to the intellectual type (geeks) than average sit-com crap. A large proportion of their comedy is intellectual. If you get the jokes, you are suddenly part of a club. How many people would find the "Bruces Philosphers Song" (sp) outrageously funny? Not everyone I would wager. The reason I would say this is that Joe Average probably has no idea who Immanual Kant, Heidgger, David Hume et al were!

    So, if you believe that the sun is setting on Python, then it must be setting on other big phenomena too. The only difference is the level of intellect required to get the subtle jokes and allusions.
  • Uh, I own the DVD. Its been released already.
  • I think this was meant as a joke. Full house vs python is apples and oranges. Full house is for 8 year olds and python is for people who have a sharp wit. I can stare blank faced at a segemnt of full house and not even grin at the jokes because they are for children.
  • by Jethro (14165) on Thursday June 14, 2001 @12:50PM (#150319) Homepage
    Come on, Drew Barrimore's not as pretty as people seem to think she is, but calling her a cow is a bit uncalled for.


    --
  • "For an even more egregious example, examine the shoddy, non-anamorphic, "old" Kubrick DVD set as compared to the marginally flashier (but DD 5.1 and anamorphic) one which came out this week. "Uh, wouldn't you mind spending $200 for the DVDs we should have sold you in the first place?" Movie execs that authorize non-anamorphic DVDs, knowing full well how worthless they'll be come 2006, should be castrated and strung up by DVI cable. (I didn't buy the "old" Kubrick set, but I know people who did.) "

    Actually, Kubrick shot on 35 milimeter in a 4:3 aspect ratio. His films where actually cropped for showing in theaters. This is one of those rare cases where you actually see more _more_ in a 4:3 format then you do in a 16:9. There was a good write about this on www.thedigitalbits.com a few years ago.

    // EvilJohn
    // Java Geek
  • I wonder if the new DVD of HG will have the Japanese soundtrack with the re-translated English sub-titles like the Criterion laser disk did. Pee-in-the-pants funny.
  • But do they really hold a candle to Full House or Pee Wee's Great Adventure or any of the other brilliant programs that have followed? No.

    I'm sorry I have to disagree there. Monty Python managed to gain appeal throughout many different cultures, not just in their native homeland. I would hazard a guess that "Pee Wee" and "Full House" have not managed to gather anywhere near the same level of international appeal. Take this as an example, I am a child of the 70s and 80s (born in 1974). I have only heard of Pee Wee because of what happened in that cinema - I haven't seen a single one of his shows - and I had to look up "Full House" on IMDB to find out what it was.

    Can you imagine anyone having to do that for Monty Python? Monty Python was innovative and it still has international appeal, long after lesser shows have been forgotten.
  • what about

    KING (tho he can't be a king, no?): Oh, go get a glass of water
  • I find some Shakespeare very funny. When we were reading Romeo and Juliet in English class in highschool, I chuckled out loud a few times. The kids in my class just looked at me funny.

    --
  • It's actually quite famous. It's an added 'meta'-scene in the castle Anthrax between where Galahad meets Dingo and where they walk together into the room to talk about spankings.

    I won't post the entire text of the scene ,but it starts off with Dingo saying how she does like this scene, and goes on (for 24 seconds) about whether or not they should include the scene in the film, ending finally with "Get on with it" shouted by all the soldiers from the near battle at the end.

    It's been shown on Channel 4 in England a couple of times, and is on a recent-ish (ie ~6 years old) VHS release.

    In gernal, it's quite good.

    Cheers,
    Noims.
  • I think part of the problem with getting extra footage for the DVD is that it's already used elsewhere.

    First off, there's the laserdisc that has additional commentaries and the like.

    The real gem, however, is the game 'monty python and the quest for the holy grail' released by 7th level in 1996 available for Windows only, afaik. Not only does it have an animated version of the King Brian the Wild sketch, but also several hilarious cinema ads. No real extra footage though.It features voice acting by several Pythons (Michael's stuff is what I remember most), but this is general bizarreness aot anythin to do with the movie (eg Micheal just saying "don't tempt me, Betty" when you click on a curtain in a tent in one of the scenes).

    If you're into all this kind of bizarreness, there's also a Meaning of Life game by 7th level with a lot of similar stuff. An excellent buy. Otherwise there's "Monty Python's Complete Waste of Time" which is based on the series.

    That should keep y'all busy.

    Cheers,
    Noims.
  • I've yet to buy it.. the main reason; I know the LD (yes, the big shiny record-size thingies [yes, records, the big black plastic-like thingies]) had an audio track with commentary of the making of the film. Something I actually heard once when Grail was shown on Comedy Central. Something I was pissed being left off. Something I hope to hell makes it on this re-release.

    Now if only we could get the Godfather trilogy on DVD, I'd never have to leave the house again.
  • The 24s will probably be the extra 24 s found on the special edition laser disk. I haven't seen it in years, but as I recall it has something to do with different characters talking about what is the best scene in the movie. I believe they are debating the merrits of the vergins in the castle, with some characters thinking it is no more than a sad attempt to make some "pusy" jokes. Not really all that funny.
    --------------------------------------
  • I think it's great they're re-releasing Holy Grail. Easily the most innovative, creative, and funny film of the Monty Python series (though I have the others and they are quite good by themselves).

    I thought I would share that the missing 24 seconds, if you weren't aware, are from Castle Anthrax, ("I can face the peril!") featuring a few quick cuts of girls doing generally bad things that you wouldn't discuss over a cup of tea with your grandmother.

    Anyway.

    One other story I'd like to share is from the Criterion Collection's laserdisc release of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. A fabulous edition that you can now, thanks to the death of laserdisc, get super cheap on ebay (I found it for less than $20, including shipping). On it is a fantastic commentary with Terry Gilliam and Terry Jones. Here is a comment from Terry Gilliam on the first American screening. I'm paraphrasing here, but the gist is the same:

    "On our first screening, in New York, I couldn't believe the response. People were lined up around the block. I was nervous as hell, not believing what I was seeing. Saturday Night Live had yet to hit TV's across the country, and sketch comedy was generally something thought as avant garde at the time. After the screening, a couple came up to me and told me how much they respected Monty Python and loved my work. I thanked them and told them I appreciated the support.

    The two were Gilda Radner and John Belushi."
    - Terry Gilliam

  • Rob needs a new hof category: most moderated posting.
    -russ
  • The Slashdot remake would star Natalie Portman as one of the virgins.
    -russ
  • Maybe it's just that there hasn't been anything as funny since. I mean Tom Green sucking cow tit just isn't funny.
  • by slickwillie (34689) on Thursday June 14, 2001 @12:49PM (#150344)
    Good riddance to him, the freeloading bastard.
  • And there was much rejoycing.

    YEAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!

  • sound of screaming while falling off bridge
  • A whole new generation of irritating fans! It looked, for a while, like their numbers would taper off as they succumbed to acne-medicine overdoses and lynchings. I now know I'll be long dead before the last nonsensical "Ni!" is injected into an otherwise-enjoyable conversation.

    cheers,
    mike
  • And don't forget John Cleese as 'The Bomb' and Terry Jones as the Parrot in Douglas Adams' computer game Starship Titanic.

    John Cleese is also set to take over HMSS' Q division, having appeared in The World Is Not Enough as R. (How long will it be before he's admonishing 007 to grow up? :-) )

  • One of the scripts that I saw I don't think was ever shot --

    After crossing the Bridge of Fate, Arthur and Bedevere come across a boat on the edge of a late. And the old man appears again, and says something to the effect of:

    'Those who wish to cross the sea of fate must answer me these questions twenty eight'

    The knights grab the old man, throw him in the water, and take his boat.

    [But the news article made it sound like the a Holy Grail DVD is new...it was among the first four I ever bought -- Holy Grail; Labyrinth; Dark Crystal; Army of Darkness]
  • >>It says a lot more about geek culture than about the quality of Monty Python's work that they've persisted as long as they have. <<

    My my, what big egos we have here. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not just geeks who are die-hard Monty Python fans. Better than half the employees at the ambulance company my wife works for spontaneously recite Python quotes at appropriate/inappropriate moments. "It's just a flesh wound!" Most of them aren't even old enough to have seen ANY episodes while they were still being produced.

    Python is still popular because it's that good. No political correctness, no over-sensitivity, just pure timeless fun. (and fanatical devotion to the pope)
  • "it's only being shown in certain cities on certain days to hype up the release of the movie on DVD"

    Say what? I've had the Holy Grail on DVD for months now, and I know it was out for quite some time before *I* bought it...

    --

  • Of course, if you had an ounce of pop culture, you wouldn't live in your parents' basement.
  • by radja (58949)
    >A good joke is timeless. If you don't find the joke humoruous, that's your loss, not mine...

    indeed, and calling full house better than monty python is a classic ;)

    //rdj
  • The LA Daily News claimed that the extra 24 seconds are with Galahad in Castle Anthrax.
  • by UnknownSoldier (67820) on Thursday June 14, 2001 @04:54PM (#150362)
    A good joke is timeless. If you don't find the joke humoruous, that's your loss, not mine...

  • This is disinformation at best.

    Not necessarily. The rumors I've been hearing on one [dvdfile.com] or another [thedigitalbits.com] of my usual DVD news/rumor sites say that the upcoming DVD release will be a special edition with a commentary track, the 24 seconds of extra footage (which I suspect is the same extra footage found on the old Criterion laserdisc), and other spiffy new features.

    And this would be a Region 1 disc.

  • It will be 24 seconds of them discussing about the previously unseen 24 seconds of footage..... and it'll prolly go on for at least 5 minutes.....
  • by selectspec (74651) on Thursday June 14, 2001 @01:07PM (#150370)
    Here's the script [oraclehumor.com]
  • Eric Idle also plays the owner of the magazine on the series "Suddenly Susan." -Jeff
    -Vercingetorix

  • This is not the extra 24 seconds, but in my official Montry Python and The Holy Grail scriptbook (not an original, but a retail book released after the movie, complete with behind-the-scenes notes) there is an entire scene X'ed out. I'd gladly reproduce it here while we're in the whole Python spirit, but alas, I left the book back home. I seem to remember it had something to do with Arthur and Team going to another kingdom and talking to another king. It didn't seem very funny.
  • by epeus (84683) on Thursday June 14, 2001 @01:40PM (#150377) Homepage Journal
    That reminds me. Long ago in 1992, when the net was younger than it is now, I was working in London for the MultiMedia Corporation on a CD-Rom with Douglas Adams. He was friends with the various pythons, and he suggested that Terry Gilliam dropped in to see what we were doing with our computers.

    We showed him our CD-ROM titles, and an early version of QuickTime, and mentioned Usenet in passing. he expressed interest, so we sat him down in front of the Mac that had the modem (in our cable cupboard) and showed him alt.fan.monty-python.

    He was fascinated, and sat there reading it for at least 40 minutes. I remember him seeing someone ask for the script to Holy Grail and him posting his production company address for them to get a copy (of course somone else posted the entire script the next day, and no-one ever believed that Terry Gilliam was posting from our address).
  • we're not talking a star wars type re-release here. it's only being shown in certain cities on certain days to hype up the release of the movie on DVD. there's fat chance it will ever make it to anywhere within a few hours driving distance of where i live.

    ---

  • I won't post the entire text of the scene ,but it starts off with Dingo saying how she does like this scene, and goes on (for 24 seconds) about whether or not they should include the scene in the film, ending finally with "Get on with it" shouted by all the soldiers from the near battle at the end.

    My parents have long ago videotaped The Holy Grail from Dutch public television, I copied the tape to VHS (it was recorded on the now obsolete Video2000 system) and have seen the movie many, many times :) This version had some differences compared to the versions I have seen fairly recently on Net5 (Dutch commercial station) and the BBC. The scene with Zoot's worrying twin sister and "Get on with it!!!" is included in the old show, for sure. But I don't know if that scene has been left out in the newer shows, I should check the other two tapes.

    Apart from that, the old show is in letterbox format (widescreen) and it has a trailer in which the Monty Python team apparently tries to hire an announcer. You see Arthur and a knight (Bedevere? I recall this from memory), with Arthur "knighting" (correct my English pse) the other with his sword. You hear a candidate saying "Once upon a time..." but the first candidates are lousy speakers ("Un-ce aa-pon aa ti-me..."), and they are replaced, "Next!" (I think that's Eric Idle). The scene starts over time and time again. Then you see the castle in the background collapse (it's only a model :)) and Arthur apparently gets bored, so he stabs the knight. Then a Chinese speaker turns up. It looks like this is the perfect announcer (with English subtitles), but it turns out to be a Chinese restaurant commercial ("Only 5 minutes from this theatre!"). I have a Mandarin speaking girlfriend and she confirmed that the Chinese is genuine.
    After that, the movie starts, with the fake Swedish subtitles and so on. (Is this the reason the Muppets' Swedish Chef becoming so popular among geeks?)

    -brinkie [xs4all.nl]
  • John Cleese has made a few movies. Terry Gilliam has directed a few. Michael Palin I believe has landed some TV sitcom roles. What about Graham Chapman, Eric Idle and Terry Jones? Where did they go? They all are so whacked and talented which is desperately needed given the mindless mediocre drivel that is put out by the major studios.

    - tokengeekgrrl

  • It says a lot more about geek culture than about the quality of Monty Python's work that they've persisted as long as they have.

    Except that some of us started watching Monty Python's Flying Circus and various movies before we were ever geeks. Monty Python is unique in that they make fun of conservative cultural values and religion in such a way that they don't piss anyone off. Why? Because they're funny. Because there is something about the social properness that is conveyed by the British accent accompanied with insanity and nonsense that evokes humor. Canadian comedians like Kids in the Hall have the same quality about them as well; however, it is a quality, I think, that most American comedians have not and may never master and a timeless one that can appeal to anyone of any generation, in my opinion. Monty Python Live at the Hollywood Bowl, for example, is brilliantly funny.

    - tokengeekgrrl

  • Thank you so much for the information. I've already seen all the movies you have listed. Brazil is one of my favorites. I was thinking in terms of within the past decade up until today.

    Regards,
    tokengeekgrrl

  • Perhaps I should have taken a little bit of a different angle on this one. So, I'll take it here. Comedy is much like literature (in fact, its pretty much is literature). Now, literature, for the most part, never goes bad. Its not wine, its not going to turn into vinegar. However, this is not to say that it is always as relevant as it once was. Certain genres of literature age better than others, and in many cases the literature of comedy doesn't age well because it takes into account a much greater amount of social norms and social situations of the time in which it was written. This means that the comedy in it is subject to the knowledge of what was going on at the time... there is a pre-requisite to finding this stuff humorous.

    Now, certain forms of comedy were able to get by this as they appealed to certain subjects (such as sexuality) that pretty much just stayed relevatn throughout the ages. If George Carlin tried to do his "Seven Words You Can't Say on Television" skit in a place that didn't have TV, they wouldn't find it funny at all since they had absolutely no background knowledge which was required for the joke.

    So, the point of this long winded diatribe is simply that the jokes can still be funny, the do not go obsolete so long as the requisite knowledge is maintained. Python will remain funny so long as people know the background information which makes them funny.

    As someone else pointed out here, sophisticated humor seems to last longer than others. That is mostly because the requisite knowledge for sophisication has not changed all that much through different time periods. I know that there are some differences, saying that would just be dumb. However, this gets back to the cannon... there are certain books that people are supposed to read, and rather than replacing books in the cannon, books are just added to it. So, if you make jokes that refer back to stuff like that, then people are going to be getting them for a much longer time period than commenting on something much more ephemeral.

    So, to pull of this back together. Comedy does not become obsolete like technology in the sense that so long as people have some sort of knowledge of what made it funny in the first place, it will still be considered funny. Since most humorists work with a common base (else people wouldn't find them funny), and this common base is passed on throughout the ages, the comedy is passed as well.

    OK, so this argument isn't perfect, but its not bad for having about 5 minutes to think about it before writing it down.

  • by Lucretius (110272) on Thursday June 14, 2001 @01:05PM (#150395)

    Well, I will say one thing for this post, it definitely has attracted quite a bit of attention and quite a bit of responses, so I figure its time for me to do my part and have part in this lovely little response fest as well. Afterall, what is life without mob mentality (She's a witch!!!).

    There's been a whole lot of progress in the last thirty years. Monty Python may have been pioneers of a sort, and they sure made the BBC cringe like no one had before. But do they really hold a candle to Full House or Pee Wee's Great Adventure or any of the other brilliant programs that have followed? No.

    Well, there has been a whole lot of progress in all sorts of things. But does it make those things which made the foundation upon which the other stuff stands obsolete? Not at all... comedy is not technology, it does not become obsolete . When one thinks about it, why would comedy become obsolete? We could really get into the theory of comedy (I know many a person who has taken the class), but that's just going to be wasting our time. A good deal of Python's comedy was done in such a way that it was rather universal, which is why they succeeded in many different cultures rather than just ours.

    Saying that comedy becomes obsolete like technology is like saying that literature becomes obsolete like technology. Thus, we should not go back and read anything that was prodcued before 1995 as it has all been said more recently and more relevant to our times. This is hardly ever the case. Quite often, the newer material is stuff that was pretty much ripped off from the original and done in the manner of a cheap hack, which would then give me less pleasure than the pure original. Why then would I bother with something that is modern and not purely original when I could have the pure sources? Well, that is simple as well... they new people have something new to offer above and beyond what the original source did.

    What conclusions have we come to in this posting. Basically that saying anything old is categorically better than something new is wrong, and vice versa. Python continues to exist and be popular because people enjoy it, and other stuff isn't as appealing to them. It will continue to be so as long as these conditions exist.

    By the way, I'll try to ignore the fact that you even brought up Full House in comparison to Holy Grail and Pee Wee's Big Adventure.

  • oh, you mean the stuff about bunnies? (right after Zoot mentions knitting exciting underwear and in similar scenes with her in Anthrax)

    that's in the director's cut. ...and should NOT be part of the extra 24seconds. hopefully that will be on the DVD's cut scenes; it's too silly to be funny in the same nature as the rest of the film, even given the film's zaniness.

  • by CleverNickName (129189) <wil&wilwheaton,net> on Thursday June 14, 2001 @05:53PM (#150407) Homepage Journal
    And there was much rejoycing. YEAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!

    Actually, it was "Yaaay." Without enthusiasm. Now you try it.

    Better, better, but "Yaaay." From the back of the throat.

    That's it!

    Oh, you wanted an interesting comment? It's karma whoring in here.

    "Karma whoring? What a stupid concept!"

  • by jbischof (139557) on Thursday June 14, 2001 @01:49PM (#150415) Journal
    I will tell you what made holy grail funny.

    Its the fact that they were too cheap for expensive actors, or props, or special effects, and all they had was their wit and natural funniness. I mean the fact that they use coconut shells for horses isnt really all that funny unless you realize that they couldn't afford horses, and they realize that too, and they just make fun of it.

    Some of the newer stuff where they had money, and didn't make fun of themselves as much, isn't nearly as funny.

  • So, I was reading this post, thinking, "wow! All those Flamebait mods-- what's up with that? He's got some good-- er, wait, what's that? But do they really hold a candle to Full House or Pee Wee's Great Adventure or any of the other brilliant programs that have followed?"

    Well, congrats on a good troll. Surprisingly well-written. But if it was your intention to have me fooled, you should've left out Full House.
  • Add underrated +1... What a horrific waste of human life, er, mod points.

    /Brian
  • We can have spam on DVD.

    You can, but it's not very tasty. I suggest spam on toast instead, or for something one might actually want to consume, perhaps you could also substitute something else for the spam.


    --
    ALL YOUR KARMA ARE BELONG TO US

  • thank you, gentlemen...
    "A six-ounce swallow can't break 56-bit encryption."
    ...made my morning. Well, I'm off to surf the ol' Web now...

    "Wait, a minnit, that's not a web browser, you're usin' cocoanuts!"
  • The Holy grail, but then, maybe

    NOBODY EXPECTS THE RE-RELEASE



  • Nice tuxedo, nice tuxedo to DIE in.
  • comedy is not technology, it does not become obsolete

    I don't think that is true. Ever watched any Keystone Cops? Or Laurel and Hardy? Or -- dare I say it -- I love lucy? These were considered hysterical in their time, but by today's standards, they seem quaint and unsophisticated. A lot of humor is timeless (Shakespeare), but a lot of it really requires living in the times and seeing it when it was innovative.


    --


  • Have you ever heard of the Rocky Horror picture Show?

    Who knows where this qoute is from (besides myself)?
  • Well, congrats on a good troll. Surprisingly well-written. But if it was your intention to have me fooled, you should've left out Full House.
    That's the beauty of it. Controversial but reasonable arguments and then something completely off. I've seen a few good trolls around here lately, and this is one of the better ones.
  • That by the way is "Liberty Bell" by Sousa.
  • by Ranalou (200662) on Thursday June 14, 2001 @12:46PM (#150445)
    He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks- dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and satire. He was vicious.

    (Monty Python, Episode 14)

    --rana, who almost fell for this as serious until he read the "Full House or Pee Wee's Great Adventure" bit...
  • by jdev (227251) on Thursday June 14, 2001 @12:58PM (#150449)
    There is an excellent summary [bbc.co.uk] of the Monty Python cast's careers on BBC's site. There's also a bunch of other good info in their special report [bbc.co.uk] on the show.

    They have really been too busy to put a thorough response here, but my personal fave's of their post-Monty Python work have been Brazil, The Adventures of Baron Munchausen, and A Fish Called Wanda.

  • this [muohio.edu]. Found it a long time ago when I was surfing for the lyrics for the Kinghts of the Round Table song.

    "// this is the most hacked, evil, bastardized thing I've ever seen. kjb"

  • In the May 2001 issue of Film & Video Magazine [filmandvideomagazine.com], they interviewed André Jacquemin, who worked on remastering and transforming the audio tracks on the Holy Grail from mono to stereo. The article is available online at filmandvideomagazine.com [filmandvideomagazine.com], but here's part of it that I found interesting:

    "Basically, because modern sound equipment can handle so much more in the way of dynamics, we were able to get away with a lot more than we had before. With things like the explosion scenes at the end of Holy Grail, we could make them much more powerful...From the moment the first new music came up we realized we had something much better. Terry kept referencing back to the original and saying, 'I can't remember doing that!' We would bring it up and he'd say, 'Maybe we did do it like that."

    The article also mentions the re-release of Jabberwocky on DVD with a remastered 5.1 soundtrack, as well as the programs the dude used for remastering.

    -Mr. Fusion

  • The only big difference is that Michael Palin came back to redo his narration for the re-release. The original audio tracks sounded very "boxy" and unclean, so they called him up to imitate himself from 30 something years ago. They also cleaned up all the sound effects and explosions to give it a stronger, more current feel. More info at filmandvideomagazine.com [filmandvideomagazine.com].

    -Mr. Fusion

  • Nice! This is the greatest news ever, but I can't believe they've actually managed to keep the extra footage a secret this long. Now if Cleese and co. could could just explain the Meaning of Life, I could rest soundly.

    1. is this.....is this for REAL? [mikegallay.com]
  • I disagree, the reason that the humor of Monty Python has persisted is that it appeals to all levels of a persons sense of humor, e.g. intellectual and physical gags. Most of the crap that is being produced now is simply done for shock value and not because it is really all that funny.

    I seriously doubt that the reason that Monty Python has survived the last few decades has little to do with the geek culture. But if that is the line of thinking that you need to rationalize your behaviour or deal with insecurity, then be my guest.
  • Great to see that we are right on the bleeding edge today.


    Whatcha doooo with those rollin' papers?
    Make doooooobieees?
  • by loydcc (325726)
    All they could dig up was 24 seconds? Are they saving 2 seconds for the DVD release at Christmas?
  • ...but this is just a natural consequence of the Hollywood Writer's Strike [cnn.com]. Studios are saving what good scripts they have, hedging their bets with old cult classics and stuff like Monty Python. Yes, we all love it, but do you really want to be a pawn for the studios, watching this scab movie while underpaid screen writers strike in solidarity?

    The longer the studios can pull stuff like this, the more time they have to organize a flood of illegal Mexican writers to take the place of hard working American script writers. If we continue to allow the studios to recycle old movies while the Writers Guild withers, the lower the chances that the sequel to Battlefield Earth will ever be made.

    Don't pawn our future for a few cheap laughs. Rent it on video instead.
  • 24 seconds -- just the right time for a geek to get off if it's some kind of sex scene...
  • The thing that makes Monty Python special isn't the way it spoofs everyday life and intellectuals all at the same time. It isn't the knights who say "nee" or the killer bunny or the nymphomaniacal nuns or even "Run away! Run Away!"

    What makes Monty Python truly a treasure is the sum of all of these, the simple fact that I am laughing as I write this, and yes, I did laugh when I read the oher posts quoting python. Not because of the quotes, but because of the scenes and movies they remind me of. Yes, you can take the knights who say "nee" and the killer bunner, and perhaps even the nuns, and say "this isn't funny." But put it all together with the complete sincerity of the actors, the unashamed cheesiness of the sets, and somehow the whole is funnier than any of the parts.

    The way that the characters react to their situations also increases the funniness factor. Those knights were truly terrified of a small bunny rabbit.

  • by Anomynous Cowand (459781) <bg0mfq6rcs7001@sneakemail.com> on Thursday June 14, 2001 @01:27PM (#150504)
    ...is just not enough.

    I was hoping they would include the "King Brian the Wild" segment from the original script. That was a seriously funny bit.

    For those who haven't at least read it, King Brian is a bit "authoritarian." All of his subjects were missing one of their arms, presumably because an arm offended the king one day. (Except for the archers, who are missing one leg, but that's a different gag.) Anyway. King Brian doesn't like close harmony groups. Well, he has auditions for close harmony groups, and for every group that auditions he has the aforementioned archers execute when they've finished! The king enjoys this immensely.

    King Arthur and his men pass through his land, and are "pressed" into auditioning, even though they consider themselves more of a "chorus" than a "close harmony group." Not too many close harmony groups are auditioning these days, so they're always trying to get new talent in the door for the king's amusement.

    Anyway, it's a great bit, too bad they didn't have it on film. After reading the script, I was hoping that it was simply cut from the final release, rather than never having been filmed at all.

"When the going gets tough, the tough get empirical." -- Jon Carroll

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