AOL/Gateway/Transmeta Team for Internet Appliance 118
OK, so now it seems almost official. According to this
story in the New York Times (free registration required) - AOL/Gateway will announce their
Transmeta/Linux based Web appliances today. The article is particularly
interesting since it details the motive behind AOLs going counter
Wintel, And Transmeta's Ditzel says it best: "The truth is that the
phrase Internet appliance has become a code word in the industry meaning
'no Windows.'" And dare I say: no Intel too... But only time can tell
if this is going to be as big as AOL/Transmeta hope. Thanks Eitan for the Link.
Too lame to make up your own information... (Score:1)
username: ihurt
password: ihurt
oh, good (Score:4)
--
Re:oh, good (Score:2)
I hope not webpads. (Score:2)
I'm not sure I want a webpad, altho they are cute.
Thank God for low power (Score:2)
Can someone tell me why low power is important in an internet appliance?
I realize that this is just pr-speak, but still, it should make some sense.
Re:Too lame to make up your own information... (Score:3)
Internet Appliance = No Windows (Score:1)
Of course, by that argument, my C64 is an IA too.
This is nice (Score:2)
My two cents...
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Let me count the ways... (Score:3)
2) If the "appliance" is supposed to be portable (or "wireless"), then low-power == longer uptime.
3) A good internet appliance is "always on"--so low-power == lower cost
4) Low-power == tree-hugger happiness
--
Have Exchange users? Want to run Linux? Can't afford OpenMail?
Future (Score:2)
* the desktop being killed by IA and connectde devices
* the way AOL gets into controlling Information and means to access such info
My guess is that in 10 years from now will have a AOL case very similar to the actual microsoft case. (Microsoft killed passive terminal by controlling the os, and then killed competition).
Worried (Score:1)
This on the surface looks good from a couple of different perspectives, but in short I am quite worried about any relationship with AOL regardless of how innocent it appears on the surface. AOL is just too powerful and although there are hints of a "mutually beneficial realationship" there is always profit margin from the AOL perspective and AOL is out for one thing and one thing only, that's to make money for their shareholders and nothing will get in the way of that. This said, I beleive that the greed factor will taint any positive spin AOL could put on this.
At last! (Score:1)
I'm not a fan of AOL, so I was thinking of writing something like "it's a shame they've teamed up with a company like AOL", but the more I think about it, the less I can find to complain about this - this really is a break into the mainstream, not just for Transmeta, but for Linux too. We're talking about a device that people expect to use with zero brain-power required (and you thought Transmeta's power management was only for electricity!), so if it's successful, no-one will be able to say "Linux is hard to use" any more. And this being AOL, you can only imagine the number of units they're planning to ship... all running Linux on Transmeta. Lovely.
This is good news. There's no other way to say it.
Cool maybe Connie will go away now. (Score:2)
Let's replace her with one of the cows Gateway modelled their boxes after - it's talk just as much sense.
Whereas? (Score:3)
Unlike RedHat and Transmeta who have a policy of stealing from shareholders and giving to hungry orphans?
--
Have Exchange users? Want to run Linux? Can't afford OpenMail?
questions (Score:1)
Would this be the first practical application of Crusoe?
I thought that the code-morphing software only translated x86 instructions.
Re:Thank God for low power (Score:2)
//Phizzy
Establishments, Orthodoxy, Revolution. (Score:5)
The case "for" is simple enough: make it cheap and idiot-proof. If anyone has a background in working on making the internet cheap and idiot-proof, it's AOL. You may not like their style, but you must concede their relentless drive to AOLize the internet. A foray in hardware is about diminishing returns to scale in software.
Consider, you are AOL. Your program right now is fairly simple for first-time users. But it still sits atop a legacy system that is in itself not so intuitive. Solution? Ditch the legacy.
AOL is actually big enough to somewhat pull this off. Especially now: the Wintel establishment has been wounded on two fronts. AMD has challenged the Intel hegemony, and the DOJ and Linux have undermined Microsoft's aura of unassailability. Suddenly, all the other sharks can smell blood, and are circling for some action.
Let us also note that minicomputer makers - and there were dozens, in their heyday - scoffed at the underpowered clunkers made by IBM. "Peecee". As if there should be a computer *per person*. Puh-lease!
Evolutionary pressure is an amazing thing. PCs evolved out of pretty much nothing into the bedrock of an entire industry. They did not wholly supplant what came before (mainframes and minis), rather, they marginalised them and extended their range of usefulness. A mainframe is no longer a standalone giant in a pen; it is a viable "force extender" for a corporate network of PCs. Mainframes are marginalised by PCs, but also sustained by synergistic adaptation to the new reality.
It may be this way with the general-purpose PC and function-oriented computers. This Brave New World has been the source of much speculation by futurists over the years, so I shall skip past it.
My own outlook is that IAs will eventually evolve to become PCs as we understand them now. People will want to write letters on their IA, and won't really understand why they need to buy a seperate machine to do that. So IAs will emerge with the power to do so. Before long they will have HDDs and user-fsckable GUIs. That is, they will be PCs by another name.
This market is seething and will continue to seethe. Expect either a big player (like AOL) to "make it happen", or for something much more interesting to emerge from nowhere and sweep the whole thing away.
be well;
JC.
--
"Don't declare a revolution unless you are prepared to be guillotined." - Anon.
Re:At last! (Score:1)
Re:questions (Score:1)
AOL's stake in this.. (Score:2)
As long as this box.. (can I call it a box anymore? maybe not.. which means these aren't 80xx3n.. and p4d is just no fun at all.. trolls.. ruminate on 1337-5p33k|ng w38p4d for me and report back in a day or so) is ISP-independant, it could be a great thing for transmeta, linux, etcetcetc.. otherwise I won't buy one.
//Phizzy
Is it really an internet appliance, though? (Score:1)
I can't say I like where this is going, AOL is not the internet, a huge BBS perhaps, but not the be all and end all of the internet. Perhaps Glorified BBS appliance would be more suitable?
Could this lead to... (Score:2)
Re:Oh great, just what we (don't) need (Score:3)
//rdj
The problem with ultraconglomerates... (Score:2)
The world's most closed public access network service(AOL) is planning to use one of the most open infrastructure operating systems(Linux) to combat the most self-doubting software company we've ever seen(Microsoft) by teaming up with ambitious but still waiting to break through firm(Gateway) and an inordinately secretive skunkworks shop(Transmeta) that happens to employ the creator of that aforementioned extremely open operating system(Linus).
Essentially, AOL trumpets an age of freedom(No MS, No Intel) by ushering in products that will likely be a long-studied model of consumer entrapment(cheap devices that only connect to AOL). Of course, such tactics wouldn't have worked that well back when AOL had teams of lobbyists seeking to make sure nobody could monopolize the net access market(the "Open Access" push) but that push has mysteriously disappeared now that AOL would be in the position of having to open its access(thinks it'll merge with Time Warner.) Meanwhile, AOL deserves superlative credit for crafting an Online Experience positive enough to drive an unacknowledged portion of the Net economy(Excellent UI design), but they've included enough code in their new revision to prevent customers from exploring other services(Roach Motel 5.0).
Guh. It's corporate tennis...you never know who's playing what side of the court, you just see your head going back...and forth...and back...and forth...
"Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun."
--(Best attribution for this quote, besides Ash, gets a cookie.)
Yours Exhaustedly,
Dan "I Can't Believe It's Not Justice" Kaminsky
DoxPara Research
http://www.doxpara.com
Re:Linus has sold us out. (Score:1)
He does have the option, of course, to quit, lose his green card, and ride that bus to the INS deportation center. And no, he won't get the Elian Gonzales red carpet treatment.
Hmm... (Score:2)
Re:Oh great, just what we (don't) need (Score:1)
If you had just tried to fit in, things would be different. But since we see no pictures of your goldfish, cat, dog, or bird on your home page, we have to assume you're one of those shareware advocates always ranting and raving about 'linusx' or BDS.
Ummm, on a more serious note- your comment about people who view the net as their 'personal playground.' Hmmmm. Seems that you're the one who missed that day in kindergarten when the lesson was all about sharing. Or is the 'net just for those with true grits [hotgrits.org]??
How Microsoft could Easily Take Over the World. (Score:2)
Say Bill suddenly decides to concede. "Yes, I'll help fragment Microsoft. You want it when, Miss Reno? Certainly." He pays off Netscape and the other companies that have been wronged by Microsoft. Bill Gates is Mister Good Guy: does what the legal system tells him to.
Now he's got a clean slate. He strikes a deal with the AOL alliance. He keeps his friends close, and his enemies closer. All one big happy family, right?
He buys them all and rules the world. End of story.
Well, it might not happen, but how good an idea is it to align smaller, more useful companies with giants like AOL? Sure, there are some benefits, but they're all Another Big Company. It surprises me to hear Transmeta is allied with AOL.
On another note: Some posters wondered about how "dumbed-down" the software on these machines will be. Well, it might be Linux. It might not. But if it is, I'm thinking it will be mostly functional, but set up for the average idiot.
A similar scenario is probably installing Linux on my iMac through VirtualPC. (Don't laugh; it was all I had available.) The disk image installed itself with no questions asked, and when I booted I found the configuration was for the average newbie: init was set to 5, the X resolution/color depth sucked, and so on. Still functional, but some configurations had to be changed to get to what I'm used to.
Oh well. I'm sure I'm rambling, but I'm just a bit disgusted with big companies.
Not worth getting excited about (Score:1)
Don't see the point of a web pad that is tied to something.
I'll wait until there's one with at least wireless ethernet support so I can walk around the apartment with it or take it outside. Of course I'll never buy one if it means signing up with the Devil, I mean signing up with AOL.
My Webcam [michaelcreasy.com]
We get an enclave, though. (Score:2)
The "plebs" aren't going to go away, as they own the internet now. (Scary, isn't it?) So what do the technically and socially intelligent do? Adapt.
Create some artificial barriers to entry. Create virtual communities. Enforce social contracts (e.g. the Debian one, but the GPL is also a form of social contract) to create the societies we want. Let the commercial outfits fund and support us - they pay for our bandwidth and space so we see their ads, but we don't buy their products.
Freenet is an interesting example: not many people are freenet nodes at the moment, and not many people are putting stuff in it, because it's not finished.
Let's have some more unfinished, uncomfortable, hard to use, elitist and exclusive user communities
Re:Future (Score:1)
Must be using Mozilla? (Score:1)
This probably means Mozilla right? Meaning really, eventually, you will be able to run a lot more than the internet on these things.
tony
Re:Establishments, Orthodoxy, Revolution. (Score:2)
_We_ have that, since we already bought or built PC's on which to practice the stuff we do to earn our living. My grandma, however, doesn't. She should not have to buy 600 quid's worth of equipment just to surf the web, when that equipment will be horrendously over-spec'd for the job. Why should she have a giant beige box when she could have a small flat portable thing for much cheaper? Why should she have to learn to navigate an OS (any OS) designed for ultimate flexibility when she doesn't need all that stuff, just an internet connection, email, the web and so forth?
I am looking forward to the day when only programmers have big beige boxes, anyone who doesn't need to program gets a variety of specialised appliances.
To some extent, this already happened: You probably have a watch, an alarm clock and maybe a calculator. Your computer can tell the time, sound alarms and add up. Why did you buy those things then? Probably for one or more of these reasons:
1. They are more portable
2. They use less power: you accept having your watch running all day but you might not want to have your computer running all day.
3. Less clicks to the result.
It would save me a lot of trips to fix my parents' computer if they had a web pad, a play station and a letter writing gizmo. The web pad could do the letter writing without too much hassle. This is all they use their computer for. Why on earth should they care about desktops and icons and shortcuts and start menus and double clicking and control panels and file systems in tree structures? This whole infrastructure is there to support stuff they will never use.
IBM did "Code Morphing" eons ago (Score:1)
Seriously though, I never understand how someone can get a patent for such a silly thing. It's just so evident; there's no invention here. So, if you manufacture a laser device when nobody has an idea of what laser is, I could probably appreciate it... But isn't this something that every system programmer knows by heart? So wtf?
Marriage to the Devil? (Score:3)
Okay, the article doesn't specifically mention that the AOL client will be available for Linux, it only mentions Netscape. So maybe AOL is only making a non-AOL-based box. But then I read where they're offering it to current AOL subscribers. Well, they'd have to offer AOL services then.
So how will AOL port their software to Linux. They can barely manage to keep the Mac version in sync with Windows. So a complete version for Linux being developed in a few months sounds near impossible. They could take a cue from Corel and try using WINE, but then their software is buggy enough to begin with.
A while back I read about AOL trying to move their specialized content away from proprietary formats and using more standardized methods. That was a while ago, and enough time for them to develop a slimmed-down version of the software that access AOL content using standard internet protocols.
But what if they have managed to port the entire AOL codebase to linux, complete with AOL dialer. Then it would be in their best interest to offer the software for download, giving plenty of Linux users who use (or have family members who use) AOL a good reason to abandon dual-booting. I can believe that there are at least a few people who have left AOL specifically because they wanted to migrate to Linux.
But then the part of me that equates "AOL" with "ignorance" steps in. (DISCLAIMER: It's a stereotype, not entirely unjustified, but still far from reality. I'm well aware of the generalization, so there's no need to point out any "examples" of why it's wrong.) So let's argue the Pros and Cons.
CON: I still like to think that Linux has a "clue-shield" about it that prevents people from being able to use it without having to learn a thing or two. AOL is the antithesis of Linux in this respect; it is designed to remove all barriers to the clueless, and specifically panders to them. PRO: Plenty of intelligent people use AOL for various reasons. No need to shut them out.
CON: Following their design philosophy, AOL would want to prevent their users from having to deal with the "complexities" of Linux. They may disguise, take over, or outright cripple Linux in ways that prevent the user from messing with anything that AOL doesn't want them to. PRO: Linux is flexible. Those who want to use it will find a way to turn off the AOL-izations.
CON: Tons of linux-neophytes will now be using, and misusing Linux. IRC channels and newsgroups will be inundated with idiots who don't know what a HOWTO is asking pointless questions. PRO: (and this is different how?) This is the result of continually promoting Linux as a better solution that Windows. You can't have it being both popular and restricted to only those who know.
CON: AOL sucks. PRO: No one's forcing you to use it.
CON: AOL lusers suck. PRO: Elitist bastard.
CON: F*** YOU! PRO: Oh, smeg off!
Okay, my argument has run out of steam. And it's all pure speculation anyway. We don't really know what AOL is doing for this appliance thingy. Maybe it really is going to be web-only and if you want AOL content you'll have to stick with Windows. Until we see an official press release about this, all we can do is blather nonsensically with our thumbs up our butts.
Not that anyone really cares. I know I don't.
PS. I just noticed that the article is written by John Markoff. I long ago decided to dismiss anything Markoff says as pure bullshit. But then this is just parrotting from a press release, so...
PPS. Anyone else notice how much it looks like an iBook? Can you say "Trade dress ifringement"?
set top boxes (Score:2)
Here in the UK email and internet through your TV is one of the things that the digital TV companies are pushing to compete. Offered the choice between another device or getting the internet through the TV, I think the people who have not got a PC by now are far more likely to go for the TV option.
(yeah yeah I know, you get crappy resolution through your TV, and you still have to have an extra box attached to it... but it seems to be one of those things that says 'easy to use' better than any separate device)
Re:Thank God for low power (Score:1)
Because low power means low power CONSUMPTION which in turn means that the device runs longer on one set of batteries.
Establishments, Orthodoxy, Revolution, Subscribe. (Score:3)
This is what scares me. (And excites, too) People want to write a document on the IA. 'Why should I need a new computer?' they say. So, someone fills the need. In my fears, this is Microsoft. They have a web-based (with ActiveX) word processor. You can use it to write great docs, but you have to pay a monthy fee for the service.
See, At the moment, no company has yet been able to charge using the subscription model for mainstream software. Users won't hear of it. 'What if My subscription runs out when I have a big presentation?', and the companies aren't sure how to go about enforcing. But, with a web-based approach, users must log in. The system verifies the account status (and maybe allowed subnet for that account?), and they go on using WebWord. Stop paying? no problem, you just can't edit your docs, or print them.... And if MSWebWord stores your files 'securely' on the server, you can't even have someone else access them. All for your convenience.
That's just one scenerio. Hopefully, a free solution would be available, but the problem with that is server bandwitdh.. I'm sure ads would creep in somewhere (not that that's a problem at all).
Anyway, just some rants and raves. Don't take me too seriously.
Partners Link? (Score:1)
these are more usefull than you think (Score:3)
That's where these appliances come in.
This summer the freepad (http://www.freepad.net/) will be released. It runs on linux, uses nano-X for graphics, and a "developer's" version will follow the initial release.
I plan to get me the developer version, find or port vnc viewer, and have me a presto portable workspot. Wherever i want to work in the house then, all I'd need to do is take it with me. Instant full access to my full-size PC, and yet it only weighs 1.2 kg.
The power of these devices lies in their combination with servers, not as separate units. And AOL realizes that to it's fullest. Think about it ? Why would they want to trim down the client side ? If they trim it down it can run less, while it's in their interest to let it run more. They intend to get these things out there, and then offer server-based add-on services. If I made bets I'd bet a lot on that one.
Anyway, I can't wait for it to happen, we've been trapped at our desks way too long.
And, no, a regular portable PC is still too big to really be portable. I know, I have one, I rarely get the chance to really use it to it's fullest because it's too clunky. I get more work done on my palm than on my portable.
Re:Thank God for low power (Score:1)
-Mr. Macx
Moof!
Will this be like the Virgin Connect Virgin player (Score:1)
Yet, no source code for it. And no offer of source code.
What is the point of the GPL advantage of Linux, if the code is denied?
Netpliance all over again! (Score:1)
How? The Transmeta uses code-morphing! It analyzes the code at runtime and figures out what it needs to do, then does it!
Hooray for code-morphing! Any waste of a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from tragic!
Re:Oh great, just what we (don't) need (Score:1)
No, I'm sorry, but I'm sick of people with no clue about a) computers and b) politeness using the net and making it all the worse for all of us. I remember the web back in the early 90s when it was first opened up, and their was *gasp* informative content readily available.
Although in many respects I'm entitled to agree with you, the internet is an exciting new medium which is being used, and will be used more extensively in the future, for beneficial communication and near-seamless information transfer. Yes, there are a lot of people in "The masses" who will use the Internet for not-so-useful purposes, but you can't sensor their pages just because you don't find them meaningful.crappy homepages (who cares what your dog is called? And your picture is so fucking ugly!)
Perhaps people who are dog lovers, vets, or hold animal-related positions will care about this first peice of information, and as for the second, perhaps the picture is used to convey the person's appearance to someone geographically distant who would otherwise not be able to view the person in question.
Now, as for the commerical factor, no matter how you slice it, companies have been involved with the Internet's expansion from the time it has been opened up. Certainly, it's conception and implementation was intially handled by scientests, miliatry scientests and university hackers, but the actual expansion - which has led to it becoming the worldwide network it has become, is largely a result of corporate funding.
And with the newbies have come the script-kiddies, people who think they're 31337 because they can fuck other people's computers up. Now that's progress!
*Sigh*. I agree with you. To truly be 31337, those kids should start developing for the Java(tm) 2 Platform [sun.com], in the impressively well designed Java language. [sun.com] Java is an excellent choice for distributed applications, because from the start, the API was designed with networking in mind. It's also become the leading server-side language in use on back-end solutions. And, due to the wide variety of Virtual Machines (JVMs) available for it, WORA (Write Once Run Anywhere) becomes a possibility, eliminating platform dependence. Now THAT is 31337.And, of course, with technology like the Transmeta Crusoe CPU [transmeta.com]A JVM could be built into the CPU using Transmeta's impressive Code Morphing(tm) technology, creating in effect, a "Java chip". Personally, that's the way I think AOL and Transmeta *should* go here, no eliminating Linux by any means, because Linux is an excellent platform, and I'm impressed with their insightfulness at choosing this operating system - but rather, to run Java and Linux side by side, perhaps implementing a customized JVM on top of the embedded Linux system.
In any event, it's good to see technologies such as Linux being used in devices such as this. I believe that with robust technologies such as Linux and Java, the embedded market could soar to new heights, and be used to improve human communication by orders of magnitude, part of which would involve humanising technology that would otherwise be frightening to the man in the street.
- Sun Certified Programmer for the Java Platform
- Sun Certified System Administrator for Solaris
Re:Internet Appliance = No Windows (Score:1)
Well, it has a serial RS232 port you can use to connect a modem to. And IIRC there is a HTML-browser for it, so in theory you could call it an IA.
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Re:Establishments, Orthodoxy, Revolution. (Score:1)
Dare I say this was the Amiga MCC? (Score:1)
-------
TheInfoBox [theinfobox.com]
Another techie hangout... Please visit and crash my site so I can say I've been slashdotted!!
Re:Will this be like the Virgin Connect Virgin pla (Score:1)
If you don't, Virgin is under no obligation to provide it.
Of course, that all hinges on the depth and quality of research that led you to believe it was "based on some variant of linux".
Could it be iOpener all over again? (Score:2)
I want a nice transmeta based laptop.
I wonder if this will be an "iOpener" situation again where people get the hardware and hack it to hookup to their own ISP or even better, erase the flash and install their own version of Linux on it.
My bets are that AOL/Gateway/and company has already learned from the mistakes of the other companies and will somehow prevent this.
We'll see...
I have my doubts (Score:3)
First, will there be local data storage available for this device, or will it become a glorified "dumb" terminal?
Second, will this device allow the playback of streaming A/V files in Real G2, Windows Media and Quicktime 4.x formats? Or how about plugins such as Macromedia Shockwave/Flash and Adobe Acrobat Reader?
Third, what kind of connection beyond the obvious V.90 analog modem will available?
And finally, will it be AOL-only, or can we set up settings from our own ISP?
Gateway has the right idea, but unless it can connect to any ISP the customer chooses and can use the standard browser plugin programs, it's not going to be as popular as AOL thinks.
Re:At last! (Score:1)
I agree 90% (Score:1)
slashdot > bible
Re:I have my doubts (Score:1)
Re:Marriage to the Devil? (Score:2)
People can write whole Web-based applications in Mozilla. Look at Active State [activestate.com] and Zope [zope.org]. AOL is smart enough to use this to their own advantage. Suddenly they got a version of AOL that can be deployed *over the network* to any PC or OS, w/o those pesky CDs. Added bonus: the main OS for testing this platform is (coincidentally, because of Netscape's incompetence) a *free* one, that they can do anything to.
Welcome back to the future: Mozilla is the VT100 of tomorrow
engineers never lie; we just approximate the truth.
Unlikely to use Mozilla (Score:1)
As I see it, it either means AOL/Gateway are being highly optimistic in choosing Mozilla as their embeddable browser or they are not going to use it at all, at least in the 1st generation device.
Mozilla is not suitable because it leaks like a sieve and is so bloated. It also has a mean time between failure of about an hour. All this will of course change by November when 1.0 comes out, but that's much too late for this device.
Re:Oh great, just what we (don't) need (Score:1)
AOL, Transmeta and Linux (Score:1)
Is S3's new RioReciever Transmetta powered?? (Score:1)
here we go again (Score:1)
Re:Hmm... (Score:1)
--
Anti-Intel for the sake of being Anti-Intel (Score:1)
I bet the xbox is a much higher volume device anyways though. This AOL thing is locked into one ISP, one vendor, etc.; no way it can be high volume.
Re:At last! (Score:1)
Re:Oh great, just what we (don't) need (Score:1)
Oh yes, the "old days". snicker...
Everything went to crap after they started selling pre-assembled computers with bundled software. Instead of real men, real women, and small, furry creatures from Alpha Centauri, who could use a soldering iron, wire-wrap gun and write device drivers, we got the nameless hordes of appliance operators whose primary qualification to own a computer was Daddy's credit card.
Assemblers are for wimps with poor memories.
Re:The problem with ultraconglomerates... (Score:2)
--(Best attribution for this quote, besides Ash, gets a cookie.)
Besides the "Army of Darkness" quote, this was also used as the intro sound effect in the classic MS-DOS shareware game "Megapede." Think Centipede, with cooler sound effects and cheesy music.
Megapede -- from Cheezy Software!
Thank you.
Re:low power - less heat - no fan (Score:1)
No moving parts means two things:
- low maintenance costs
- Possibly moving the whole thing to a single chip (heck, I think that the transmeta chip will eventually be made to emulate a whole PC just by itself, but you might want to put the memory on a seperate chip/card/stick)
Re:US Only? (Score:1)
Re:Establishments, Orthodoxy, Revolution. (Score:1)
Because I didn't have my Palm Pilot yet...
- Richie
Re:Marriage to the Devil? (Score:1)
If AOL needs to rip the brain out of Linux, and sink it's hooks into the kernel to make the AOL client fit, then so be it - who cares?
It will be one more step away from M$ - so people will realize that M$ != Internet != Computer. This 'revelation' might actually interest people in their other alternatives, such as the 'one true Linux' - which ever distro that happens to be that week.
It will bring a flexible and open platform into the internet market place - even if AOL doesn't share it's modification (though the GPL folks will have something to say about THAT) there will not be as big a chance for ILOVEYOU as there is with an M$ front-end.
The only concern is that AOL will require you to use their Linux flavor in order to use their service. No biggie right now, but the AOL/Time Warner merger may make it impossible to not go through that company in one way or another.
SOL? (Score:2)
Huh? (Score:1)
When did Transmeta go public?? Where do I buy?
This is going to be a HELL of an IPO when it happens. The last of the great tech investments, pre-biotech...
And it'll come with free spam. (Score:2)
Doesn't that fill you with confidence in how they'll handle privacy issues?
(Anyway, given that Gateway was the only company whose sales reps outright laughed at me, and made fun of me for asking about non-Windows systems, when I was last looking for a laptop, I have trouble believing they're serious.)
Re:Marriage to the Devil? (Score:1)
CON: I still like to think that Linux has a "clue-shield" about it that prevents people from being able to use it without having to learn a thing or two. AOL is the antithesis of Linux in this respect; it is designed to remove all barriers to the clueless, and specifically panders to them.
If you buy one of these things from CompUSA or wherever, without reading anything about it, then I'd be money that you could use it for years without realizing that Linux is on it. Because it's not going to have the whole Linux OS - it's likely going to have the linux kernel, AOL, and Netscape. The Linux kernel, probably with a few extensions, will be there to replace an OS.
Re:oh, good (Score:2)
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AOL for *nix? Looks like it. (Score:1)
Check out this article [efront.com]. Looks like AOL really is writing a version for Linux. Rumor has it it'll be based on the Gecko (Mozilla layout component) rendering engine.
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Zardoz has spoken!
Who is making the chips? (Score:1)
This same story is in today's print edition of the Wall Streen Journal (the bastards charge for their online edition, so I don't know if it's there too), but the WSJ claims that Transmeta has not released the name of the manufacturer of the chips in question. Could it be a foreign company, as this Yahoo! page [yahoo.com] seems to suggest?
I haven't seen the information about the TM & Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company [tsmc.com.tw] anywhere else. Can anyone confirm this from an independant source? Oddly, it doesn't look like TSMC has posted the TM press release on their press page at the website above. If this is true, I'd be interested in hearing of any good reasons to suppress the information - IBM/Intel threats to firebomb Linus' house, etc.
Re:US Only? (Score:1)
So, that name wasn't available then.
AOL and Matchbox Internet Appliance (Score:2)
CNN Junkies... (Score:1)
Re:oh, good (Score:1)
The September That Never Ended rolls on.
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Ever heard of "network economies"? (Score:1)
By the way, when the time comes for the trash to step off the web, don't be too far away from the front of the line yourself - your assumption that a network's worth increases as the number of users decreases shows clearly what an idiot you are.
Re:Will this be like the Virgin Connect Virgin pla (Score:1)
file:// lets you look at the basic file layout. Things like lilo.conf, the same file system structure, and http://www.espial.com/linux.html [espial.com] shows a picture of the Virgin box. I belive my 'research' is correct.
And, to date, my letter to Virgin is unanswered.
Re:Still don't like it... (Score:1)
Re:oh, good (Score:1)
That would be because of spammers, trolls and flamers? I'm sorry, I don't get your point either. Easy to use IA's are gonna ruin the Internet for us Geeks?
Re:This is nice (Score:1)
Inital info on Version of AOL on Linux (Score:1)
Hacking the aolOpener (Score:1)
Seems to me AOL is not going to want to get involved unless the machines are constructed so as to restrict users to that ISP.
So what might be likely is that they contract with Gateway for a certain number of them, then Gateway contracts with the Taiwan suppliers to come up with the main assemblies such as LCD panels, motherboards, Gateway puts them together, and so on.
The Netpliance iOpener used a similar model. But they made the mistake of assuming hardware obscurity could prevent hacking and using another ISP. Virgin with its Netconnect IA was smart enough to require a long-term contract that made the machine too expensive to hack--even though it runs Linux already. We will have to assume that AOL will not release any without the same sort of long service contract for ISP.
The next question is pricing. It makes no sense to charge a large amount of money upfront for the hardware and at the same time something like $20 or $30 a month for the ISP, since it would be cheaper for anyone just to use a cheap PC and free ISP. So the hardware has to be cheap, perhaps like the iOpener's $99 (the result of months of price experimentation) or Virgin's $50 for each of the last two of three years.
The reason I think they will have to have strict terms of service, and emulate Virgin's $499 cost of ending service, is that it is very likely there is no economical way to prevent hacking of the IA. Netpliance has gone through about four ways to try to stop hackers, and each time their attempts have been overcome.
As soon as you can put a hard disk on one of these IAs you can make it boot into a different system and hack it, use it with a free ISP, or anything you can do with a PC or Linux box.
The remaining question is, whether the Taiwan manufacturers will want to put some of these together at a reasonable price for us Linux hackers. No doubt the design work on the aolOpener will help them. But LCD panels are still expensive, and it is not known if the Transmeta CPU will be any cheaper than the alternatives--Intel could probably match it with strongARM.
Without a hard disk drive, the IAs will just be like television sets--you can "watch" AOL just like any other channel as a consumer--you just can't produce or publish anything freely of your own. Using a Transmeta chip is really quite irrelevant in this picture--an IA that is plugged into the grid doesn't need to use less power, as there are no batteries--and the "code morphing" is not necessarily an advantage. Consider that the iOpener uses an old Winchip that probably was bought as surplus--they aren't produced any longer--what could be cheaper, and they are fast enough for what they do.
I believe AOL will target schools for these IAs, try to put them on every desk. It has already started the back end with the AOL School project online. It will be able to sell the whole package of IA hardware and service to whole school districts. The low frontend price will be subsidized by longterm contracts.
As other posters have noted, the result of such a plan would be to turn the Internet into something quite undesirable to those of us who prize freedom. I don't want my children watching AOL at school any more than have them turn on the Disney channel for education at home. We need to have some public space, some environment free from commercials and "product placement" and brand names and "non-offensive" interpretations of the truth. At my site I try to present free content to students. AOL School produces no content of its own--it just parasites off the free web for its portal. And I don't want AOL or Time Warner or Disney to produce the content--I want teachers to be able to do it for their own classes.
I had hoped we could do that voluntarily and freely on the web ourselves. But it seems that not all large corporations have bought into this vision. Instead, they see the web as a place to make bucks.
We will have to wait and see--I don't expect any of these IAs to become available before the Christmas buying season. The more interesting portable webpads using Transmeta won't be out until next year.
Re:I hope not webpads. (Score:1)
Re:Unlikely to use Mozilla (Score:3)
Monopoly swapping? (Score:1)
So, will we be able to choose our own ISP on this box? Is the Linux IP stack left in place? Or has it been replaced by AOL's closed source propriteory stack?
It seems to me that we get caught up in the Evil Empire of the moment that we fail to see the next Evil Empire sweeping in on its tale. Anyone remember IBM? Remember all of the fear and loathing everybody had for them? Anyone see Billg@Microsoft.com comming before it was too late?
I mean, ok, this uses Transmeta's chip, which is really cool, but not amazing. The amazing thing for the Slashdot croud is the Linux base. Yeah, that's cool, it runs on Linux, so it's free, right? The kernel and some of the tools might be, but that dosen't mean that AOL can't lock them into their service with it. Does that seem free? "You can have this box, and it has a free kernel, but, oh, sorry, you have to use AOL for it to be useful."
I'm going to try to use the past here as a guide, lets see, Micros~1 let people use other than IBM hardware for PC stuff (clones) that drove down price and all was good and well, but then, oh no, look out, now Microsoft has an OS monopoly, and everybody hates it. Now, along comes AOL, who says "hey everybody, free OS", and then, next thing you know, an Internet Service monopoly, owned by not only a link provider, but a content provider too (a la AOL/Time Warner).
If somebody can explain to me why this dosne't really suck ass, then please correct me, but from where I'm standing, it stinks.
Re:I have my doubts (Score:1)
You don't need to develop new software, just use plain vanilla netscape and plugins, either for Win32 or Linux.
You have the videos available either in
http://www.transmeta.com/news [transmeta.com]
or
http://www.z dnet.com/zdtv/zdtvnews/features/story/0,3685,2119
Re:Marriage to the Devil? (Score:1)
Linux is already in the position of the Macintosh. There is already a big pile of Windows only software that it won't run. And the only way that we are going to be able to replace Windows as the "You can buy software for it at Walmart" leader is to make sure that there are machines in normal people's hands that run Linux.
If a Linux-based Internet appliance were in millions of homes, then you can bet your life that applications would magically appear for Linux. AOL would probably even encourage other software companies porting their applications to the AOL appliance (ie Linux).
More importantly AOL pushing Mozilla will basically guarantee that the web maintains some semblance of standards. After all, AOL has a lot of clout when it comes to the Internet. I imagine that the mere suggestion that AOL might switch to Mozilla is enough to make the IE coders shiver in their boots. AOL could almost single handedly tip the browser war back into Mozilla's court.
Re:oh, good (Score:1)
There's no point in preaching or ranting; it's all been said and heard before. The Great Unclued are a mixed blessing. The more of them there are, the cheaper the pipes get, and the more bandwidth I have to myself from 2am to 5am. Or would have, if I didn't have a day job.
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"Yboocs mirror"? (Score:1)
Well, at least it's not a goatse.cx link for a change.
Re:oh, good (Score:1)
Hey! I am/was one of the Great Unclued! I resent the implication that the internet should be the exclusive province of only those who measure up to someone else's standard of elite-ness. How dare you hang a 'white-folks only' sign on my public internet (school house/drinking fountain/public bus). Who are you or anyone else to decide who is fit to enjoy the benefits of this new "information age"?
(no, I'm only kidding. I think everyone should be forced to take an internet-competency exam before being allowed to have a dial-up account with AOL. Same with having children. "Sorry, you failed our basic parenting apitude class. You'll have to surrender your reproductive organs at the front desk.")
Re:oh, good (Score:1)
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Re:This is nice (Score:1)
Re:I hope not webpads. (Score:1)
Re:I hope not webpads. (Score:2)
Gateway speaks..... (Score:2)
*Carlos: Exit Stage Right*
"Geeks, Where would you be without them?"
IEEE Article on the Development of the Crusoe chip (Score:2)
Excellent detailed article on the chip, its design, and the history of Transmeta. Probably the most extensive and comprehensive article I've seen on the fledgling company. Of course it was wriiten before the AOL/Gateway deal so its now a bit out of date.