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The 2000 Beanies

Final Call for Voting in Slashdot's Beanie Awards 165

Posted by Hemos
from the strike-while-it's-hot dept.
With LinuxWorldExpo just around the corner, and thus the time that we'll actually give these awards away, I wanted to tell everyone to go out and vote for who you like. You can check out the initial story for more information on the awards. Vote early, and vote often...er. Scratch that last one. Anyway, voting goes until 8 PM EST tonight.
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Final Call for Voting in Slashdot's Beanie Awards

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  • I was severely disappointed to not find my personal favorite comment poster on the list.
    Had he been on the list, I would have voted for Dan Kaminsky (Effugas). I find his comments regularly insightful and well thought-out. I get the feeling he thinks about things a lot more than most posters before actually putting pen to paper, and this shows.
  • What kind of error is this? I generally have never used a 'Hope Taco and Crew fix it.
    Good chance they will.
    Folks, remember that Taco et al do not routinely read all of the comments of all of the stories. It would be impossible for them to do so, so if you have a bug report or something that deals directly with /. itself, email it directly to CmdrTaco. [mailto]
  • Shortly after posting my original message, Sensei (the admin of LinuxNewbie.org), letting me know that he was re-working the interface and he gave me all of the URL's to the files I needed.

    He was extremely helpful, and it seemed to me that he genuinely cared for the OSS community. I'm definately not ruling them out for later help.

  • Quarter-Million dollar grant. And not grants, only one. Before he got it, he was practically sleeping rough at MIT so that he could promote free software. I can't find fault with the way he put that grant to use, either.

    Brett, if you say he's out to deny you a livelyhood fast enough, it might sound to you as if it makes sense, maybe. But I see no logic there at all.

    If you don't like the GPL, all you need do is not use GPL code as part of your program. We are not forcing you to use it. You may license your own code any way you like.

    I really take issue with your calling RMS unethical. RMS and I can have our arguments, but my experience is that he is among the most ethical people I have ever met and I trust him completely. There is also no questioning his dedication: I promote free software as I can, RMS dedicates his entire life to it.

    If we were to compare RMS' achievements with yours, I'm afraid you'd not measure up. Not even in the same order of magnitude. Thus, that you should presume to judge him so harshly seems extremely inappropriate. Frankly, I'm disgusted.

    Bruce

  • Sorry, wrong vices. I've been to Vegas 7 times and have never dropped a quarter in a slot. I don't drink to excess either. Now, that new ham radio, that's tempting. But I just bought one with my own cash.

    Bruce



  • I tried to Nominate GNUstep [gnustep.org], but most people would apparently rather stick with a bad rip-off of Windows (itself a bad rip-off of NeXTSTEP/MacOS ), that will get developed regardless of any award.

    GNUstep has come a long way, and could really use the Spotlight and Money. Not to mention the real power Linux/BSD/Hurd could have with a set of Libraries and Development tools based on OpenStep.

    It's too bad the most vocal members of the ./ community seem to be;

    A) A bunch of kids who while they more than likely rebel from their mainstream communities, choose to conform with whatever the current "Hip" (which for some reason seems to be whatever is Windows-Like) open-source software is. (I guess they just trade one conformity for another)

    B) The I hate Microsoft/Bill Gates/Windows at all cost types, who again for some reason seem to have as their goal, replication of the Windows paradigm. (Albeit Pro Gratis)

    C) The I will trade REAL POWER for a cool looking but almost non-functional windowing theme.

    Now for the rest of you whom I haven't offended, I would enjoy seeing a discussion on the relative Merits of why KDE/GNOME deserves more attention than GNUstep. That is, from those that actually understand the issues involved.

    Go ahead, flame away, moderate me down, in other words, prove my point.

    Big Z

    ...I don't give a fuck, God sent me to piss the world off... --Eminem
  • When you went to the error your cursor was taken to the exact area of the code that contained said error.
    compile mode in emacs does this though... you go to the error you want to look up, and hit enter.
    You could set breakpoints in the code.
    Gdb mode in emacs does this... (just M-x gdb, it asks what you what file to run..., then in the source windoow do M-x gdb-break) bind it to a character if you like...

    I'll admit it may not be as easy as in borland, but it's certainly there...

  • Agreed. Dan's frequently got the best comments - I even nominated him, but to no avail :(
  • I hate dragging things like principles into jokes like this, but nevertheless, I abstained on principle from voting in this one-ballot election. Having only one choice turns the whole idea of an election into a joke (you hear me, a JOKE, Hemos!) and reminds me a bit too much of not-too-distant times in the CCCP where voter turnout for single-ballot elections was near 100% by fiat. I'm not saying Hemos is a bloody autocrat, just that he's a communistic socialist running dog of an autocrat. (Hmm, autocratic running dogs -- what will they think of next?) But hey, he's our hamster, so we love him just the same.
  • Or at least take some of the award money and donate it to EFF towards fighting the battle?

    ttyl
    Farrell
  • Please don't vote for LinuxNewbie.Org [linuxnewbie.org], without going over there and really scrutinizing what they are offering. I ask you to do this because I don't think that they have made a good contribution to newbie help, other than taking up a memorable domain name.
    • Look at their Samba install advice: download the source and build ... the RPM? For a huge percentage of newbies this is just plain wrong-headed. If one is on a system that supports RPM, one probably already has an RPM that is consistent with the kernel version. If that samba is too old, probably the whole distro is too old. If one is not on a system that supports RPM: totally screwed. There is no mention of any of this. Instead it says right at the front of that article: having problems? go read the samba doc.
    • That was one example. I have similar complaints about just about everything else I looked at, including the home page which does not strike me as at all simple and/or inviting to people who want to try linux but aren't sure where to start or where they stand.
    • Read the piece about "why some guy chose NT over linux." His reason boils down to security: he thinks the way samba (not linux, samba) handles expired passwords (they keep working) is not secure enough. That guy doesn't know much about Windows security, does he? Expire your passwords all you want, pal, but if you send'em in clear text you are completely insecure. And where did you read about this anyway? I would doubt highly that it was uncovered by accident.
    • That article calls into question the LinuxNewbie model: newbies writing doc for other newbies? All previously existing Linux HOWTOs and advice are missing from LinuxNewbie.Org... that's not just a waste, it's is less than helpful.
    • Probably, it's just poor execution and not bad intent. But if Bill Gates paid me to set up a website that would undermine linux by getting newbies into trouble, what I would do is mirror LinuxNewbie.Org. To tilt the table any more against linux would, in my opinion, get me caught. Yes, that's how harsh my criticism is.

    I do not have blinders on about linux. Cross platform advice is important to many newbies who will likely have a foot in several OS camps for the foreseeable future. And, the linux HOWTO world is pretty screwed up: while once it was highly useful, it is now too far out of date for newbies (oh, for how long did I slavishly rebuild my kernel to get masquerading... years after RedHat built it in). But ignoring it all and have newbies hash out the "new" way is not a good idea.

    Somebody, please convince me that I'm wrong about this.

  • RMS and Alan both have impressive beards, but I think Jon Hall might have the winning edge during the holiday season. Can you imagine Mr. Hall playing the role of Santa? hehehe....
  • Having Tom Christiansen as Best Newbie Helper is like having Bill Clinton as best family man.

    Even if you have read the FAQ, the ORA books, look at the source code, hacked on the problem for days, the chances are that Tom or his side kick Abagail will cut your head off if you ask for help on the Perl Newsgroups.

    And if you escape to comp.lang.python, he'll show up there to insult your choice of scripting languages.

    Other than that he's a great guy! Love his writing.
  • I know it's a bit late for nominations, but I think the EFF [eff.org] definitely needs some support for their defense of the Open Source community in the DVD cases.

    Anyway, you can always vote for LiViD and Video4Linux.

  • by brianvan (42539) on Thursday January 27, 2000 @07:18AM (#1331294)
    And you are wrong because...

    ... the issues you brought up matter little to a newbie. A clear, helpful, get-things-working explanation is what newbies need. Regardless of arrogance or stupidity or impatience, all people need the short answers that work even if there's a better long answer. LinuxNewbie.org does a fine job of giving short answers, and it's perfect for the first time Linux home user. As a business or experienced Linux user, I'd be reluctant to rely on only one website or source for information anyway, which makes all of your "They're wrong about this and that" points on advanced topics kind of moot. LinuxNewbie.org gets you up and running, and it's your job to take the next step but at least they help A LOT in getting to that point...

    And for the most part, HOWTOs are very easily available. Just because they're not an LDP mirror or something doesn't mean that their own information is useless. It's original and it's easy to fill the holes yourself, so why chastise them for spending more time on original content rather than messing around with all of the other easily available documentation (most of which are anti-newbie anyway)...
  • See, that's the problem with you Libertarians, you expect Big Brotha to take care of your petrification needs. Anyone who has actually read through Steve Forbes' tax plan will see his clear vision of Ms. Portman, Ms. Barrymore, and even Ms. Neve Campbell. A flat tax for everybody, deductions only for home mortgages and petrification research. Give the public sector the incentive and let it flourish in petrification. By having no other loop holes, we can encourage companies to beef up the petrification research to such a point that we will have our goal accomplished before Ms. Portman reaches the dreaded age of 22.

    Letting the government handle petrification of young girls would be like throwing pennies at a petrified Leonardo DiCaprio. Sure we wouldn't have him in every other movie there is, but to do away with the problem completely, you must use dynamite! So, to really get the job done, please put your support behind Steve Forbes and the Republican party, which is the only party to put petrification into their party's platform.
  • I was disappointed to see John Carmack on that list. It's not that I have anything against John, but his posts are nothing special, really. The only reason they get moderated so high is because of his icon-status.

    I would've liked to see Enoch, Signal, CB Brown, or (heck, why not) even myself ;) At least three of the four on that list post mildy interesting comments most of the time. Carmack is mostly just setting the record straight about things he is involved with... That's nice, but it's hardly anything special.

    -----------

    "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."

  • by / (33804)
    There's a lovely lady in my neighborhood with a beard to put RMS and Cox to shame. No hormone supplements -- it just naturally happened that way. I think she's more into tatoos than mallocs, but who knows what goes on behind closed doors....
  • Well, seeing the lovely flame war he I just HAD to get my own torch out! It is getting kinda rusty... First off, on linuxnewbie.org I am known as "TiredManInNeedOfSleep". Where it NOT for LNO I would not have Linux and if I had managed to obtain it I would not have been allowed to install it on my computer in the first place since I am 14 and live with my parents. This site has been a great help to me, while the people on it may not offer the bar none best advice they do offer tips and adive that will get the job done the first time around without making the poor person read through 130,348,488,000 how-to's

    Quite obviously you are a troll!
  • As of Jan 27, 8:21a CT (14:21 GMT), http://slashdot.org/section.pl?=beanies gives a 404.


    _________
  • Brett, if you say he's out to deny you a livelyhood fast enough, it might sound to you as if it makes sense, maybe.

    Sorry, Bruce, but there's incontravertible evidence that this is so. In his essay The GNU Manifesto [gnu.org], he explicitly states that the purpose of his "GNU" project -- and the GPL -- is to make it impossible for programmers to make a better salary than they could as graduate students in academia.

    Stallman writes:

    For more than ten years, many of the world's best programmers worked at the Artificial Intelligence Lab for far less money than they could have had anywhere else. They got many kinds of non-monetary rewards: fame and appreciation, for example. And creativity is also fun, a reward in itself.

    Then most of them left when offered a chance to do the same interesting work for a lot of money.

    What the facts show is that people will program for reasons other than riches; but if given a chance to make a lot of money as well, they will come to expect and demand it. Low-paying organizations do poorly in competition with high-paying ones, but they do not have to do badly if the high-paying ones are banned.

    This is right from the horse's mouth -- written in one of his more candid moments and posted on his own Web site. Q.E.D.

    If you don't like the GPL, all you need do is not use GPL code as part of your program. We are not forcing you to use it.

    Funny: Microsoft makes this same argument about Windows.

    Alas, due to misinformation about the GPL (which, alas, I fear that you and ESR are perpetuating by not speaking out about this outrage), it is spreading like a cancer. It is literally becoming as impossible to avoid GPLed software in the UNIX world as it once was to avoid buying Windows with an IBM-compatible PC. No, more difficult. Why? Because the GPL's predatory nature has done more to stamp out competition in the realms of UNIX development tools and utilities than even Microsoft.

    You may license your own code any way you like.

    This is not sufficient to stop the GPL's deleterious effects. It is important to encourage others not to stamp the GPL on their code, and to create non-GPLed open source products that can be used to replace GPLed ones.

    I really take issue with your calling RMS unethical.

    Do you think it's ethical to attempt to destroy others' businesses and livelihoods because of a 20-year-old petty grudge? I don't.

    If we were to compare RMS' achievements with yours, I'm afraid you'd not measure up.

    If you measure "achievement" by how much one has hurt others, you are right: I don't measure up. And am very glad not to. I won't sacrifice ethics for fame, fortune, or power, as Stallman has done.

    --Brett Glass

  • Prease to fix rink.

  • Just calm down man. It's just a slashdot thread. Remember, that this is the site that has people who fantasize about people naked and petrified. Don't take anything so seriously that you feel you need to give your 'papal indulgence' to those who transgress laws of etiquette.

    This is not real life. This is the internet. Repeat that until you believe it, because it's true.

  • She's real.... From the cute little horns on her head to her skin-tight leather pants.

    I guess you didn't look at the picture.

    --Brett

  • GNU does not force people to use their utilities, no matter how you feel about the issue. The vast majority of UNIXen ship with their own proprietary utilities that you are free to use in leiu of GNU utilities. Whether or not you'd trust your box to programs that you have no knowledge of whatsoever is really up to you though.

    Do you *honestly* think that RMS is out to get you? Because that's how it sounds. It sounds like you're scared of the GNU bogeyman that's riding into town and forcing you to use free software. That sounds like a persecution complex to me. And comparing GNU to microsoft? Do you have any idea of the difference in scale between GNU and microsoft?

    If *I* were RMS, and I was against people making money doing what they love to do, I wouldn't have made it possible to make money selling GPL'd software. But RMS went out of his way to make it possible to sell GPL'd software at a profit. He didn't have to do that. While it's recommended that you charge for the media, there's nothing stopping you from selling deluxe distributions of gcc for $2,500 a pop. He's not anti-profit or anti-capitalist, as much as the people who would like to discredit him would love to slap the "commie" label on him. He's just pro-ethics, and against profit where it comes at the expense of freedom.

    When you refer to the 20 year grudge, would you be referring to the other MIT programmers being hired away at high salaries? If so, I would question whether or not that's a grudge...as one of the best programmers in the department, he probably could have gone that route whenever he chose, but he simply chose not to, for ethical reasons.

    GNU is not Microsoft, part of the essence of freedom is that you don't even have to choose freedom when it's offered to you on a plate via GNU. Chill out and realize that it's OK to disagree with GNU and go your own way, it is not however OK to spread FUD based off of your misconceptions about what GNU is about.

  • That may be true in an extremely limited sense, but in general, it's not.

    Set your threshold at -1, and post something pro-linux, and watch the flames of karma-whore, linux nazi, and the usual oatmeal/natalie portman BS fly.

    There are other ways of teaching newbies to find stuff for themselves then cutting their heads off. Namely, "here's the resource, but more importantly, here's how I found it..."

  • And, therefore, I won't attack others out of spite or malice, as Stallman did -- and continues to do via the GPL.

    Is Stallman out to get me personally? No, he hasn't singled me out. His goal is to destroy the livelihoods of all commercial programmers. In a recent interview with Forbes magazine, he gloated over the fact that he had hurt a new business that was struggling to make money:

    [Stallman] retaliated [against the computer scientists who left the MIT AI Lab to form Symbolics] by sabotaging his former colleagues' sophisticated commercial programs for powerful computers, singlehandedly hacking up his own versions and giving them away. "They accused me of costing them millions of dollars," he says. "I hope it's true."

    In short, the GPL was created out of spite -- pure and simple. Of course, in order to encourage its spread, Stallman must deny this -- and so he does.

    GNU is not Microsoft, part of the essence of freedom is that you don't even have to choose freedom when it's offered to you on a plate via GNU.

    Ironically, the GPL -- and the FSF -- use the same methods as Microsoft to destroy legitimate and creative small businesses and to deprive users of choice. The GPL does not bring "freedom" at all -- in fact, it keeps open source from the very people who could use it most productively.

    The only "freedom" the GPL offers developers, especially when compared to true open source licenses such as the MIT X license, is "freedom" from being able to be paid for their work.

    Stallman is likewise opposed to authors' rights.

    --Brett Glass

  • It sounds like the reasons people give for anti-Semitism and other racist sentiment. They stick together and take over, they get into all of the good businesses, and there's nothing left for us. That really means we got complacent, we didn't stay competitive, and we wanted everything to be the same forever. It's unfair that someone comes in and does things better, and we lose out!

    You think that you should have a monopoly to make costly software, and anyone who makes less costly or free software is unfairly destroying your livelyhood. That's competition, Brett. If it happens that you lost, you weren't looking while we went by.

    I know of three people who think more or less the way you do. One of them can actually program and seems to be a benefit to society sometimes. Two of them consider themselves hackers and bemoan that they are prevented from making a living by RMS and the GNU crowd, but try as I might I can't find any software that they've made. And this is at the same time that my own company is advertising a $100,000/year position for someone to do free software, and will advertise more. I call that making money. In fact, it's difficult to find good free software writers who aren't making something like that already, these days. Brett, how did we leave you behind? Don't you realize that these days, the way to make the most money is writing Linux and Free Software?

    It sounds as if you're blaming us for your own failings. I'm sorry, but that's what I see here.

    Bruce

  • It sounds like the reasons people give for anti-Semitism and other racist sentiment....

    Irrelevant to the argument at hand. I prove my point above, and you respond ad hominem by calling me an anti-Semite or a racist!

    You think that you should have a monopoly to make costly software,

    Now another ad hominem attack: telling me what I "think" -- incorrectly -- and accusing me of being a monopolist.

    and anyone who makes less costly or free software is unfairly destroying your livelyhood.

    Another provably incorrect claim. As I've mentioned many times, it's the GPL that targets livelihoods. Other open source licenses, such as the MIT X license and BSD license, do not because they are not exclusionary.

    That's competition, Brett.

    No, it is anti-competitive. Just as Microsoft is, while all the time claiming that it is merely "competing aggressively."

    If it happens that you lost, you weren't looking while we went by.

    Another insult that does nothing to bolster any argument you might be trying to make. In fact, your entire message appears to be nothing but a series of attempts at personal attacks.

    I know of three people who think more or less the way you do. One of them can actually program and seems to be a benefit to society sometimes. Two of them consider themselves hackers and bemoan that they are prevented from making a living by RMS and the GNU crowd, but try as I might I can't find any software that they've made. And this is at the same time that my own company is advertising a $100,000/year position for someone to do free software, and will advertise more.

    All anecdotal and irrelevant to the point at hand. The fact is that the GPL is the instrument of a spiteful, malicious, and therefore unethical agenda -- a point which you cannot refute because there's ample proof. And you are actively supporting that agenda and thereby doing harm. If you are ethical, you should stop.

    I call that making money. In fact, it's difficult to find good free software writers who aren't making something like that already, these days.

    Actually, companies like your own -- and others, such as Red Hat -- are not making money. They're losing it. The money they spend on salaries was taken from stockholders, not earned.

    Brett, how did we leave you behind?

    You didn't. I've refused to participate in unethical activities. Writing GPLed software is unethical, because the GPL is designed to turn open source -- otherwise a good thing -- into a weapon against a specific group of people against whom Richard Stallman bears a grudge.

    Don't you realize that these days, the way to make the most money is writing Linux and Free Software?

    Maybe ethics matter more to me than to "make the most money."

    The fact is, Bruce, that the companies to which you refer are not making money. They do not even own what they sell! This is not a good business proposition. I intend to make money off of sound and ethical activities. I will not contribute to any GPLed software -- ever. And I will use it only as a matter of necessity, until such time as I can avoid it altogether.

    It sounds as if you're blaming us for your own failings.

    Again, an ad hominem attack. I haven't "failed" at anything. What I am doing is sounding a warning which intelligent and ethical people should heed.

    I'm surprised to see a message like yours from a person who is said to be a key evangelist for open source. Look what you're saying and doing! The way you're coming across, you seem to be so much in denial about the aims of the GPL that even after I've demonstrated irrefutably what they are, you feel the need to attack me personally instead of following the argument to its obvious and inescapable conclusion. We must face facts, Bruce: the GPL is an instrument of spite designed to hurt people. Honest people who want to make an honest living. It is therefore unethical to use or support it.

    --Brett Glass

  • Jon Katz's Hellmouth writings be listed under the 'Cluestick Award for FUD in Journalism' award??? It would seem a much more appropriate place for it than 'Best Slashdot Story'. Though he may not be up with the ranks of the MS lawyers/marketing and Jesse Berst, since he does write some thought provoking stuff now and then, the Hellmouth series was just about as bad as it can get - almost as bad as the "Please Die" series, which don't strike me as anything worthy of posting...

    Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the guy, but not everything that comes off of his pen (keyboard) is golden...
  • by Anonymous Coward
    The Usenet Oracle pondered your question deeply.
    Your question was:

    > How many posts would a "first post" post if a "first post" boast "first post"?

    And in responce, thus spake the Oracle:

    } A "first post" would post as many post as a
    } "first post" would post if "first post"
    } boast "first post".
    }
    } You owe the Oracle the first "first post"
    } in the "first post" posting history.
    } And oh, by the way. *ZOT*...er...(Score: -1, Offtopic)
  • I was disappointed to see John Carmack on that list. It's not that I have anything against John, but his posts are nothing special, really. The only reason they get moderated so high is because of his icon-status.

    And that's only because most of the people on slashdot probably bought that multi-million dollar mainframe just to play his baby quake*

    I was disappointed to see John Carmack on that list. It's not that I have anything against John, but his posts are nothing special, really. The only reason they get moderated so high is because of his icon-status.

    I would be hardly impressed by this. If any private individual actually got money for just posting reponsed to slashdot then I think I would be up in arms about it. All that posting a great deal actually shows is that you have a great deal of free time or that you can type a 300wpm or something.

    I seriously doubt that you will be nominated but that's because I don't believe in immense levels of self absorbtion.

    Well at least you can make me! your new leader

    And remember, always remember:

    ******ONE PEOPLE, ONE NATION, ONE SLASHDOT-TERMINAL******:)
  • I was disappointed with that whole category. It seemed more of a "Who is your favorite famous person who occasionally shows up on Slashdot?".
  • I agree about the voting after where the money will do most good, at least for the big award, instead of after a literal interpretation of the question. The big award is a significant sum.

    However, I also believe Wine is the project that could use the money most. It does _not_ get money directly from Corel, Corel has their own version of the source, and occationally the merge back contributions to the main Wine CVS repository. Also, Corels goals are different from the Wine project, examplified in Corels KDE-specific GUI patch. I believe the money could help keep Wine alive independent of Corel, and implement features that are less important to Corel.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    CHAMPAIGN 2000

    Free Champaigning
    by Richard M. Stallman


    It has come to my attention that Slashdot is holding a contest of sorts and that I have been nominated for an award. Please allow me to share some thoughts on this contest and perhaps give you an understanding of why I believe this contest is not beneficial to the Free Software Movement nor the Slashdot community.

    The voting process has historically been about money. The concept of money is not compatible with the Free Software Movement. This contest is destined to become not a vote of ideas, but a vote of dollars. I don't have access to the millions of dollars that Mr. Raymond, with his little IPO rewards, has amassed. I therefore do not have access to the proper media channels to bring my platform to the people of Slashdot.

    Let me explain this further with an analogy. Let us imagine two software developers. One of these developers is from a rich family of lawyers. Money has been as accessible to him as air. The other developer is the son of peacock farmers in Tennessee and has struggled for his very survival all of his life.

    Despite their vast economic differences, these two developers have many things in common. Not the least of which is a passion for wildlife. This common interest brings the two developers together, in a cosmic sense, as they decide to protest the shutting down of a tapir refuge in Washington DC.

    Independantly, the two developers decide to take action to save the tapir refuge. Being of like minds, they come to the same logical means of implementing their action. Here is where the disparity begins to manifest and, like a gust of wind churned about by a pair of butterfly wings growing into a storm on the other side of the world, the disparity only increases with time.

    Both developers set out to travel to the National Farmland Headquarters. The wealthy developer books a seat on a plane. The less prosperous developer must hitchhike.

    The less wealthy developer spends weeks on the road. Starvation, pestilence and fatigue are his only companions. The wealthy developer reaches the Farmland National Headquarters in a matter of a hours.

    The less wealthy developer hasn't even reached the halfway mark to the Farmland National Headquarters by the time the wealthy developer has appropriated the giant novelty sausage displayed in the main lobby and booked a flight to Washington DC.

    Days later, our less well-to-do friend has collapsed on the side of the highway. Nobody even stops, thinking he is just another mutilated mass of road-kill. His clothes are torn but not as much as his spirit. The wealthy developer on the other hand has found his way to the tapir refuge. He beats in the door and severely bludgeons the beauracracy responsible for bleeding away the funding that the refuge depends on for its survival.

    The wealthy developer is now a national hero. He is revered by high-profile political figures and is the media's darling. Eventually, he meets Natalie Portman at a movie opening, marries her and rears several beautiful daughters.

    Meanwhile, our less wealthy developer is being autopsied in a small town, population 500. He is the talk of the town and is featured on the front page of the local paper, accompanied by a photo of his mutilated remains stuffed into a black trash bag.

    Clearly, money talks in this society. That is why I protest this contest. This is just the Slashdot Community's way of giving ESR a hot young actress wife and a bunch of sweet little girls and leaving my rotting carcass in a black trash bag.


    thank you.
  • Does anyone know of a way to force^H^H^H^H^H persuade Xemacs/Emacs or something else to work well

    Sure, it's called M-x compile. Or if that's too hard, you can always try the little 'compile' button up at the top of Xemacs.

    I'm not sure I see your problem. I do Java and C++ development in Emacs, and I have 2 windows open: Emacs, and a terminal for testing the program. You're not going to get any fewer windows no matter what you're doing. Now I must admit, I'm rarely dealing with more than a handful of sources, so it's trivial to whip up a makefile and just M-x compile using the default command "make -k".

    Or are you referring to something else?


    --
  • how the hell did that get moderated up to 4?

    you are a troll sir. your accusations of Linuxnewbie.org being a Microsoft Site is ridiculous.

    Do you want me to post feedback from people that the site has helped?

    Are you bitter about something?

  • This post is not redundant. The internal server error and previewer problems were not mentioned by any previous poster.
    Nor is it off-topic--I expressed my opinions on the voting.
    (Now I'll probably get moderated down for flamebait)
  • Well, I happend to be a daily vistor to LinuxNewbie.org, and I must say the I disagree with you. Being a Win9x/NT man, I have found the learning process of *nix very steep. LinuxNewbie.org has been my one-stop resource for linux, with great NHF and links to all required info/apps/drivers/etc! There message board is extremelly helpful and creative, with a rather fast turn around time. Oh well, that's just me though...
  • What? You work with MattMann, too? Maybe you're the same person as MattMann.

    >Hypocrite, your email address is not in your info

    DUHH!! Did you actually read that Mattman's sliming LinuxNewbie.org and did you actually went there? You that blind you can't read Sensei's email-address from that site that he owns? DUHH!

    >You say that what he has posted is FUD even
    >though he has given many reasons to back up his
    > argument, while you have given none

    You got a really bad case of reading-disability, huh? MattMann's just trolled and tried to slime a good newbie-site. Why? Coz Linuxnewbie did a great job of exposing LinuxOne's fake-distro. That pissed off MattMann in another thread and then he goes here at this thread to try to confused people about Linuxnewbie-site, probably hoping that people will not read the first-hand linuxone-distro review over there.

    >I agree with him completely

    You oughta. You seem to be either himself or another person working for/with him.

    If you're gonna troll, troll better. Go pack your bowling bags and read trolling-101 book.


    --treatment--
  • I'm happy to see Carmack on the list. Allthough I have no interest in his games, it is his type that occationally makes it worthwhile to read /. comments. There are basically three types of comment posters:

    1) The flamers and off-topic posters.
    2) The people who seem to have an opinion on everything, but insight in nothing.
    3) The (rare) people some first hand knowledge about the topic being discussed.

    I vote for Carmack as representing the third category. Those comment posters who makes it worth browsing through the first two categories.
  • Whew! Let's see if we can burn off some of that meaningless karma here...

    You, sir, are either an utter baffoon or a determined troll. After reading your post, I just had to have a look at this site, as the idea of a bunch of misleading information being provided targeted at newbies pissed be off. Within 10 minutes of browsing their site, I have found clear solutions to three different problems that have bugged the hell out of me for a good, long time; two of them I thought were simply impossible as they were related to "made for Windows" hardware that I own that require a Windows program to operate! The instructions that I found were well written and very methodical, so that someone who had just learned to expand a tarball could follow them. This is a truly amazing site and should be praised for its amazing newbie friendliness and quantity of information. If you somehow found discrepancies, then you should have better spent your time submitting your views to them, as they openly solicit feedback on damn near every other page and welcome new information from users. I never heard of Linuxnewbie before reading your post, but I foresee spending many, many hours perusing its excellent content.

    Deosyne
  • thanks, I like your style.

    you misinterpreted me a little. I was/am really interested in getting other people's opinions (about LinuxNewbie) so I wanted to let angry people know that I was still listening despite their best efforts to get me to stop. I meant what I said more as a parish priest than as a pope.

    I am, however, infallible (ha ha, ok, too obvious a joke)

  • Coz Linuxnewbie did a great job of exposing LinuxOne's fake-distro.

    LinuxOne's fake distro was exposed a LLLLOOOOONNGGG time ago. You may be an old-timer on LinuxNewbie, but you clearly have not been reading Slashdot. Want to see what'll show up as the next LinuxNewbie expose'? Get a little taste of the future! Come read this [slashdot.org]! hee hee.

  • Brett,

    We'd like to - but that's what the whole two-week nomination process was for. We've simply schelped what people nominated in the highest degree.
  • Sure, it's called M-x compile. Or if that's too hard, you can always try the little 'compile' button up at the top of Xemacs.

    Ahhh however you have to edit the command line to take into account for the file you are editing unless you know of a nifty trick to make the buffer you are editing append itself to compile's command.

    I'm not sure I see your problem. I do Java and C++ development in Emacs, and I have 2 windows open: Emacs, and a terminal for testing the program. You're not going to get any fewer windows no matter what you're doing. Now I
    must admit, I'm rarely dealing with more than a handful of sources, so it's trivial to whip up a makefile and just M-x compile using the default command "make -k".


    Or are you referring to something else?

    Yes as I explain below.

    *long sigh* Yes. I learned programming using things like the dos based borland products. You made a mistake in the program using the editor and when you tried to compile it you were given a list of errors. When you went to the error your cursor was taken to the exact area of the code that contained said error. You could set breakpoints in the code. You could easily open up windows that showed the cpu registers. You could setup things to look at variables. I have developed exactly one program that was fairly trivial (I actually figured most of it out in about 3 hours) and then I proceeded to code it.
    I used the traditional method that a great deal of people use currently. I took tty1 and got that read for compiling with the command line. Next I opened tty2 with the source in ae. I wrote code in ae and then went to tty1 and compiled it by hand. When an error was generated I had to manually count the lines of code down from the top look at the error message and then fix the problem. This was preformed at least 40 times to get the whole thing to work. Now I thought to myself I guess this little thing called linux could at least make this process a little easier on me. Now is there a good way to do this? I mean they have something for java called JDE however that works for java and the JDK and not for C++. Since I really can't easily learn all the intricies of emacs lisp while simulstaneously trying to learn C++ in an educational environment I thought that there was at least a little more formal system in place to do such a thing. Or do people just gloss over difficult subject matter or just secretly design their own.
  • Because *this* money is for the Beanie Awards. Other money can be spent on the EFF for the DeCSS battle.

  • I know this sounds like a rant, but I mean it in all sincerity: The lack of good voting options for software in this poll worries me. KDE still comes across as a Windows wannabe (all the frittery details and nonsense, but no real advance). Gnome is the great unfinished project. The Gimp is up for best graphical interface? Okay, it has a lot of interface with a lot of frills, but *yuck*, no would should ever design a user interface like this one--ugh.

    I guess my real point is that this could have been a poll from 1998. Has nothing changed?
  • I know a lot of people like the Hellmouth series, but it read to me as this incredibly self-indulgent therapy session by Katz trying to exorcise his own demons.

    I mean, my high school experience sucked too, but I just don't feel this big need to cast blame everywhere. My inability to fit in was because of my own social limitations. When I worked to overcome them, suddenly life started improving a lot.

    Unfortunately, Katz' story is just another symptom of blaming everything in society except yourself for your own problems.


    --

  • Ahhh however you have to edit the command line to take into account for the file you are editing unless you know of a nifty trick to make the buffer you are editing append itself to compile's command.

    I know exactly what you are referring to. I wondered about the same thing myself not long ago, however I eventually realized that I almost never compile only one source file. Thus I write a makefile, and as I said, to compile I type M-x compile [enter] [enter]. Now if this takes you longer than a couple of seconds, I see your problem. And then if you happen to be compiling only a single source file, then yes, you have to type in the command to compile (g++ -Wall -ohello hello.cc or something...) however you only have to do that once per session, unless you are compiling multiple sources, in which case you should be using make.

    As far as debugging goes, I believe Emacs and XEmacs can easily integrate with gdb, and possibly others (correct me if I'm wrong).

    Basically the issue is flexibility. In an IDE such as VC++ or CodeWarrior, you are locked in to using THEIR compiler and THEIR debugger. This is all fine and dandy if those work for you, but suppose I write a compiler for a new language called "Foo". With Emacs, I just set up syntax highlighting for all .foo files, and use make to call the command-line compiler. This is not possible in most IDEs, to my knowledge.


    --
  • Dunno about Emacs (hideous program that it is;), but vim has the :make command, which will call make, then you can cycle through any errors with the :c set of commands. As for knowing what file to compile, you need to set up dependancies in the Makefile so that make will know only to recompile one file. What's 'ae' btw?
    --
  • I understand the pressures of business and of trying to manage a difficult environment such as Slashdot.

    However, my nominations were made during that two-week period, and several of the same people or projects were also made by others. Therefore, I cannot understand why they were omitted from the ballot. There was certainly room for more choices!

    Among the people to whom I've spoken, there seems to be general disappointment with the selection on the ballot. Some have accused Slashdot of favoring "the usual suspects" -- Stallman, the FSF, etc. -- because the Slashdot crew may feel that it owes its new-found wealth to the hordes of "Linux faithful." I don't think that's so, but the ballot choices certainly would support that assertion! I'd still encourage you to open up the voting -- and perhaps to circulate ballots at the show. (When's your awards ceremony?)

    --Brett Glass

  • >LinuxOne's fake distro was exposed a
    >LLLLOOOOONNGGG time ago. You may be an old-timer
    >on LinuxNewbie, but you clearly have not been
    >reading Slashdot. Want to see what'll show up as
    >the next LinuxNewbie expose'? Get a little taste
    >of the future! Come read this! hee hee

    You're such a doofus. Nobody has done any review of the actual LinuxOne distro besides LNO since it was only released some weeks ago and LNO's member got a hold of it right out of the ftp-bat and sent in the first review here at slashdot and everywhere else! Next time you try to divert attention, check you story correctly.

    Fyi, I'm an old-timer here in slashdot and the whole linux-advocacy, not just at LNO.


    --xre--
  • >We must face facts, Bruce: the GPL is an
    >instrument of spite designed to hurt people.
    >Honest people who want to make an honest living.
    >It is therefore unethical to use or support it.

    __Who__ are these honest people that you are talking about? Be specific.

    How is it really _unethical_ to use or support GPL? Do you write software? If so, for _whom_? Do _you_ own that software you wrote? If not, then _why the heck not_?

    __Nobody__ is forcing people like _YOU_ to use the GPL. If you don't want it, don't use it. Don't _whine_ about what other people prefer to use. The GPL is very simple: either you agree to use it, or you don't use it coz you don't agree to it. Don't try to pontificate about your jihad against RMS or the GPL.

    How about __YOU__ come up with a better license than GPL and tell us exactly how many coders are willing to accept __your Brett Glass license__. Don't even think about appropriating or cloning the various *bsd-type licensing terms.



    --treatment--
  • oh, good point, I accept the correction. I guess what I was thinking about was the Slashdot discussion of the LinuxNewbie review. That discussion didn't cover new ground, it was just the same old slanging about "they should be stopped." That tainted my impression of the whole topic. Sorry.

    See, that's how you should respond to a post, directly, like nobody has to my original. And the moderator up above who "redundanted" me? That post covered new ground and answered plenty of specific questions people had. The post it was in response to was redundant, as were all of the flames I received. I guess honesty does not figure amongst your own traits (not you, treatment, I'm still talking to the moderator).

  • I was a little concerned when I noticed who the nominees for 'Favorite Slashdot Poster' were. Only one (boredatwork) was a 'real' slashdot poster. The others are very public personalities who just happen to have slashdot accounts. Name recognition plays a big part, just like any popularity contest. My opinion is that there are at least 10 slashdot posters who are more deserving of the award, whose aliases just aren't very memorable. I find myself recognizing posters by their signatures, for example.

    ..And if we're going to nominate 'personalities' where the fsck is Alan Cox? His posts have all the qualities I look for in a significant contributor to this community. First and foremost; terseness, but he's well informed and interesting as well.

    Compare this to Tom "I know what I want. It's not that, that or that. Come to think of it, I know what you want too" Christianson, and Bruce "Everything I know I learned in 8th grade debate class" Perens.

    -nme!


    PS Yes, I am a bitch.
  • OK, thanks for the straight shooting. My second point there ("stop praising us and help!" :) was better than cute: you're gonna see that sucker again because it seems irrefutable by "don't complain" theorists.

    And I am stopping, but ya gotta do me a favor and get LinuxNewbie to change at least this line from their credo page [italics added] :) :) :)

    Instead of
    fuddling with the difficult to read 'man pages'and HOWTO files,...

    just a joke, folks, anybody can make a typo! ...see you all, around.

  • I would nominate konstant.
    His posts are always insightful and sometimes funny as well. What is especially interesting is that he is in a unique position of being a MSFT employee who has triple digit karma on slashdot.
  • You obviously must have your mother writing posts for you because only a moron would say LinuxNewbie.Org is not helping newbies. If you actually took the time to skim the BBS, you would see how the LinuxNewbie.Org community has become one fo the best self help systems on the Internet, let alone for Linux users.
  • "Read the piece about "why some guy chose NT over linux." His reason boils down to security: he thinks the way samba (not linux, samba) handles expired passwords (they keep working) is not secure enough. That guy doesn't know much about Windows security, does he? Expire your passwords all you want, pal, but if you send'em in clear text you are completely insecure. " Are you always this dumb, or are you being special today for some reason? The above quote from your post came from a comment someone wrote to LinuxNewbie.org. It was just an opinion someone wrote about their reasons why they chose NT over Linux. It wasn't written by Sensei, LinuxGirl, or anyone else running LinuxNewbie.org for that matter. It was just someones opinion simple as that. You're writting this flame as if it was LinuxNewbie.org telling the masses to choose NT over Linux. Which just isn't the case. Many people have been helped numerous times by LinuxNewbie.org. I have, on more than one occasion, found answers to more of my problems their than anywhere else. If you can do better than LinuxNewbie.org than do it. No matter what, Sensei got my vote.
  • Just like the subject says. If you HAD spent any time there, you would realise how valuable the site is.
    Let's get something straight: If a newbie wants help, he/she is best served by going to a general-purpose linux mailing list, news group or bulliten board. I use all three of these sources and it is QUITE obvious that most users of these lists are newbies themselves. Look at the linux-newbie and debian-user mailing lists for good examples. So the model of newbies helping newbies is is actually the *dominant* model for linux support. And this isn't a bad thing! I constantly post to these groups both to get help and receive help. I have been using Linux for 4 years, and in that time *every* *general* *purpose* *Linux* *support* *source* has used this model. Because it works. LinuxNewbie.org is no exception. The gurus generally don't have the time or patience to answer these questions. Newbies do. Newbie A knows how to get their SB Pro working under Linux. Newbie B can get their mcd CDROM working. They can trade their knowledge to solve each-others problem. This is the principle behind most linux support sites. LinuxNewbie.org provides a conveinent place to do so. Why in God's name would someone who already knows everything about Linux hang out on a newbie site? The only incentive for doing so is to learn something.

    Why don't you go to LinuxNewbie.org, and follow a goddammed thread or two? You'll then realize how valuable a tool it is.
  • by BiGGO (15018) on Thursday January 27, 2000 @08:54AM (#1331357) Homepage
    Damn, that was a hard choice.
    I couldn't decide - I checked hemos, then i decided he's not worthy, since hemos is much better.
    So naturally i changed my vote to hemos, but hell - hemos was still a better choice!
    So again i rechecked the hemos box,
    but then I understood that the best hemos isn't hemos nor is it hemos, so i checked hemos instead.
    Then I doubted my choices and decided to go back to Hemos.
    After an hour or so I realized that such a desicion can take me days!

    So eventualy I absained. :-(



    ---
    The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck,
  • Normally I try not to feed the trolls, however this is something to consider. With AC on the list and with the above thread listing best comments, I would also like to see a catagory for best trolls be on the list.

    Oh well, maybe next year.

    Never knock on Death's door:

  • MattMan, It's clueless snotty zealots like you that makes non-linux users wonder about the mentality of all the linux-users. You're just a 14-year-old mama's boy. You're probably another disgruntled team-os/2 member that jumped to the linux-bandwagon just so you can label sites and people as Bill Gates' minions. You clearly have __NO IDEA__ how linuxnewbie.org helps newbies. If you're that smart and not just another armchair-critic, why don't YOU build a linux-newbie site of your own? Heck! I'll wager that __YOU__ have not contributed at all in helping out newbies __anywhere__ at any __time__ since Linux broke out. If you have a problem with the LNO site or any articles posted there, then go post at the friggin LNO-forum about it. Email the authors or the site-owners, instead of assasinating a good site's rep over here at slashdot. Instead of just __WHINING__ about your dis-agreement with a particular article, why don't __YOU__ write another Samba-article for all the world to read? You can't coz you're __not qualified__ to do so. Get off your high horse and start contributing __POSITIVELY and ACTIVELY__ to the linux movement. It doesn't matter where, just friggin do it. --xre--
  • by Brett Glass (98525) on Thursday January 27, 2000 @10:18AM (#1331360) Homepage
    Some of the best candidates for these awards are not on the ballot.

    OpenBSD, for example, was left out of the "most improved" category, despite the security audit that made them the most secure OS in existence. Tim O'Reilly was left out of the advocacy category. Brian Behlendorf, whose Apache project has the distinction of achieving the largest market share of any open source project, was left out of the "unsung hero" category. And what's this about Richard Stallman for "Best dressed?" Unless the intent is to make a sarcastic joke at his expense, this is silly. The FreeBSD Daemon Girl (see http://www.gci-net.com/~u sers/f/fluke/comdex/bsdgirl1.jpg [gci-net.com]) got my nomination. But she wasn't included on the ballot, even though I both mentioned her in the discussion and entered her into the form.

    When I e-mailed Rob Malda asking why none of these folks appeared on the ballot, he said that nominations had been closed and that it was "too late." However, I did mention these candidates in plenty of time in the nomination discussions, and entered all of them on the nomination Web form! Other people also recommended them in the discussions.

    I certainly hope that these folks were not excluded from the ballot because the awards were actually intended to go to specific people or only people from certain organizations. (With only one or two exceptions, only people involved with Linux or FSF projects appear on the ballot.) Since Andover is spending enough to buy a house on these awards ($100,000 for the awards themselves and probably about $50,000 on space at the convention, advertising, etc.), they should include candidates such as these. Currently, my ballot mostly says "Abstain" -- and I bet I'm not the only one!

    Since this is the Web, it's never too late to add candidates or allow write-ins. How about it, guys? It's sure better than winding up with people who aren't the readers' choices.

    --Brett Glass

  • Yes, and I agree - it's a popularity contest. try not to get too upset about it though. I'm just happy people like to read my comments. I also get the occasional troll attached to a post of mine, but doesn't everybody? :) It's slashdot.. don't take it too seriously.

    Now, if I could just figure out how to convince people I'm not in it for the karma (although it's nice to brag about!) I'd be all set.. =)

  • As a newbie user of a desktop linux machine, even tho I have used it on and off for years remotely, I appreciate the help I am getting at LinuxNewbie.Org. See.. as I went searching around the net looking for information to help me with my machine, not even my distro's info site would help. It just ended up confusing me more than ever. Going into irc to any of the #linux channels would just get me a "RTFM!!" from some arrogant snot who thinks he's better than me just cause he knows stuff I don't. That made me want to switch back to Windows. But I kept on looking for help. When I found LinuxNewbie.org, I was much happy. I've been ransacking the sight for info and help. I even got a laugh about the windows NT article. Without it, I would have probably said "fsk it!" and gone back to Windows. Instead, I am a convert of the Gimp. =)
  • I just found linuxnewbie.org yesterday and can say with 100% confidence that you have not a clue what you are talking about. I found the site to be most informative. Yes, I found a problem with one of the articles there, and I wrote to the guy who wrote the article and let him know what the problem was. If you find a problem someplace why don't you write to the author and let them know? After all, that is why HOWTO authors put their email addresses in there - so people can comment on their work and they can fix what needs fixing - just like they do on linuxnewbie.org.

    Making such idiotic comments such as you have made about this site does nobody any good. It misleads those who could benefit from its content yet now will not visit and it just makes you look like a fool.
  • by Bruce Perens (3872) <bruce@perens.com> on Thursday January 27, 2000 @09:23AM (#1331365) Homepage Journal
    I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch. But if I got a $10K award, who would I donate it to? At first thought, several organizations come up:
    • FSF, for general free software development.
    • SPI, for general free software development.
    • EFF, for DVD defense.
    • No-Code International [nocode.org] for the continuing battle to institute sensible laws for ham radio licensing, rather than the present system of Morse code exams.
    • ARRL [arrl.org], another ham radio organization, specificaly their frequency defense fund.

    Or someone else? This isn't a vote, though I'm looking for suggestions and rationale.

    Thanks

    Bruce

  • by ep0k (144783) on Thursday January 27, 2000 @09:25AM (#1331366)
    Well I am a relative newcommer to the linux world. And i am going to disaggree with MattMan. linuxnewbie.org is one of the most helpful linux sites i have ever come accross. Just about every question that i have needed to ask has been answered at this site. Not to mention that there is a comrodery unequaled in any user group i have ever been a part of / come accross. We are a bunch of people getting together on the web to help each other. With no equivications. No prejudgements. The one thing i will aggree with this fellow on is that you SHOULD check out http://www.linuxnewbie.org . Take a look around. Register a handle. Make a few friends. And if nothing else, learn linux. There are always going be a few tools out there that will want to say that this is a site of melvins but i am going to challenge you and ask "What have you done to contribute to the well being of the Linux community?" silly. ep0k
  • So you work for LinuxOne, huh? figures. --xre--
  • So you work for LinuxOne, huh? Figures... --xre--
  • In my subjective opinion (how does one judge these things?) Mozilla is the most improved project. However I wonder, what is the use of giving $30K to AOL?
  • Sometimes.

    I usually learn most by lurking on newsgroups or mailing lists. I also spend a good deal of time researching on the net and in books.

    I too have seen Tom help absolute newbies. But I have also seen him and others squash folks with what were real questions that need the touch of a tutor, not the lash. I think this has lead to the increase in sales of Python books.

    We have a common joke in users groups in this area that reflects the zeal that sometimes comes from both the Internet and local Perl wizards:

    "Perl, the choice of arrogant bastards!"



  • They have been very helpful to me. They certainly deserve my vote, so I guess I had better go vote.

    I found out about this thread from LinuxNewbie.Org which I visit every day.
  • Heh, well it would sure as hell help *me*..



    Bowie J. Poag
    Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org [themes.org])
  • Hiya Bruce.. :)

    Well, if I turn out to be the lucky horse, I'll be donating a good chunk of it to The XFree86 Project. ...An worthy investment, considering what theyre doing for all of us.



    Bowie J. Poag
    Project Manager, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://propaganda.themes.org [themes.org])
  • thanks brianvan, and especially for sticking to the issue at hand : ) (moderators, brianvan's post was technically more "insightful" than "informative". MattMann does not cotton to loose definitions of terms.)

    which makes all of your "They're wrong about this and that" points on advanced topics kind of moot

    You should reread what I wrote. I was not saying that newbies should be bogged down in the detail of advanced topics. I was saying that IMHO the advice offered on linuxnewbie is likely to get newbies into trouble, without helping them to get out of it. And I cited specific examples. Please, cite a specific counterexample, and we'll wrassle on it.

    why chastise them for spending more time on original content rather than messing around with all of the other easily available documentation

    When criticizing someone (me) you should take into account everything they said, not just a small piece. I criticized the linux HOWTOs quite sharply. I said they were not good enough for newbies in today's environment. So, even if I was not clear enough in tying together all that I said, there must be some reason I said it all. Clearly, I was not advocating a simple LDP mirror. So, a rational conclusion (why does everything have to be so laboriously spelled out on slashdot) would be that I was advocating improving on the HOWTOs rather than tearing them up and starting from scratch. "Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it" is popularly considered to be good advice.

    Now, please don't take me to task and say that it doesn't always make sense to migrate, that sometimes it makes sense to start fresh, because that point is obvious. However, since the corollary to that is the equally obvious "it only sometimes makes sense to start afresh," my criticism must have been (why does everything need to be spelled out so laboriously on slashdot) that linuxnewbie has chosen the start-from-scratch option in every single case. I think that's a bad idea. I think you think it's a bad idea too, except that you like linuxnewbie so you don't want to admit it in this context. It's a completely valid and simple criticism.

    There are really two issues I raised, so perhaps they should discussed separately. One question is "how bad is linuxnewbie", as in, is it in toto useful? (I could be convinced.) And "how good is linuxnewbie", as in, is it better than all the rest and therefore worthy of winning this contest. (I could even be convinced of that if you show me that what else is out there is worse.)

    But I'm only interested in hearing from people who are willing to do the legwork: tell me the specific pages you think are good or bad. I could care less about it's-good-it's-bad-me-too" one-liners. Even testimonials from people who were helped or not are of limited value. Unless it's from a randomly selected sample, it's unscientific and invalid -- advice that newbies to science too often ignore.

  • RMS invested his MacArthur money so that it would support him for life as a free software advocate.

    Unlike RMS, I am paid a nice salary for a job that happens to include Linux advocacy in its duties. I like that job and want to keep it. In that context, to keep the award seems uncool. Not unethical or dishonest, just uncool. It wouldn't be uncool for RMS, for example, he dedicates his life to free software and his money supports that. Linus has benefitted less than many of us (so far) and has two little kids and can make good use of that $10K, and I would not begrudge him that either. Eric doesn't need money any longer, I'm sure he'd donate the $10K too. So it's not one-upmanship.

    But when I saw my name next to that $10K, I was struck with the need to make an immediate statement statement that it would not go into my pocket. I just felt uncool until I got that out.

    You are welcome to hold whatever belief you wish in my sincerity.

    Thanks

    Bruce

  • by Anonymous Coward
    Thanks for clearing that up for us, Tom!
  • KDevelop is looking nice... but much of what you are asking for (in terms of debugging, jumping to the error, editing, etc) is available for C,C++,Java,Perl,Python, etc, with one interface in the Data Display Debugger (DDD) at www.gnu.org/software/ddd [gnu.org].

    Very cool piece of software.
  • The LinuxNewbie discussion groups permit everybody to post questions as well as advice. Due to this, there is good probablity that SOME advice given may not be the right advice. Any reasonable person should understand this. Furthermore, any intelligent person would do his/her own research prior following another's advice. This is called common sense. I, along with many others, find LinuxNewbie.org to be very helpfull. MattMann appears to be very bitter - why is that?
  • Convince you that you're wrong? How about the 150+ praise emails I've recieved ever since posting my NHF? How about the thousands of posts on the message board @ LNO... I mean, for chrissakes, LNO's message board competes with Slashdot in terms of posts... the only difference is that trolls like yourself don't reign down there.

    Hell, if I even got to help one person, and I've helped way more than that, I'd praise that site.

    Most of your arguments are against specific people's posts on LNO and not against the site itself. Your whole argument is invalid. It's like saying Slashdot sucks because of assfaces like you.

    "Including the home page which does not strike me as at all simple and/or inviting to people who want to try linux but aren't sure where to start or where they stand."

    What the? Linux newbies aren't idiots... maybe? They don't need to be pampered with a text-only page in big header font that says "LINUX HELP HERE." I'd be offended by that, if the design was as if for age groups 3-5. Simply because LNO has the style of a news page, that looks cool and classy and maybe (to you) complicated, doesn't mean it is at all daunting the appeal of Linux newbies to get started on a new linux system.

    So basically, Sensei is a great newbie helper by creating a site that helps all Linux Newbies out in one way or another. You can't get the fix to any given linux problem any quicker than the LNO message board, and you can't find any more easier-to-read-and-follow tutorials than the NHF section. If you're not convinced that you're wrong now, I don't know what to tell you.

  • As a linux newbie myself, I have to agree with you. Linuxnewbie.org helped me none.

    When I installed RedHat 6.0, my goals were to have it eventually replace Windoze. In order to do that, as a power user, all I need is internet access, and icq. With that in mind, I went to their site. After spending several minutes figuring out how their website interface worked and looking for a place to search for help files, I typed in "ppp". Instead of bringing up a helpful dialog, I get a ton of stuff I don't need, like "NHF's: Intel Based" and "Linux: What is linux?".

    After searching for about fifteen minutes, I gave up and instead went to Linux.com's help chat, where I was referred to KClinux.com, where I immediately found how to set up internet in KDE, complete with newbie-useful graphics. Once I completed that, it was time to set up ICQ. I have heard that the ICQ java version is crap, so I decided that I wanted one of their clones. I headed on back to linuxnewbie.org and searched for "ICQ". The search only turns up two things, neither of them even remotely having anything to do with icq. I have yet to find a way to install the rpm and other necessary files for ICQ, so I'm still stuck in windows.

    (Offtopic: If someone is willing to help me on this subject, email me at oh00@yahoo.com and I would greatly appreciate it)

  • thankyou, i think ill burry my head in the sand now ;)
  • I'm very pissed that JED isn't one of the editors listed. It totally rocks, and I'm very sure tons of other people think so. Why give the duopoly of vim and emacs money? ;)

    Freshmeat entry [freshmeat.net]
    Author's homepage [mit.edu]

    ICQ#2584116
  • Well, IMHO Linuxnewbie.org did NOT get me into any trouble and was actually more helpful than any other site in pointing me in the right direction. If you have any support for the claim that they can hurt a newbie, I'd like to see it.

    Second, does it matter whether they use the HOWTO's or not to build their own articles? If they want to start from scratch and it still turns out to be a good article, then who gives a rat's ass? I can't think of an example where I thought LNO posted an article that was inferior to HOWTO's with related information... although it may be the case rarely, most of the site is just as good as HOWTO's, only easier to read. At that rate, it's almost refreshing to have TWO DIFFERENT explanations of the same information.

    It's true that if I looked up everything in LNO and in the HOWTO's and made side-by-side comparisons, I might say that writing a new article from scratch was not necessary. But if the new article is of decent quality anyway and does the job, then I don't see an issue. And if ONE article is worse than the HOWTO's and is a bad article to start with, well then I can personally say that I know that's not the trend for the entire site and I happen to disagree with you.

    I dunno if they should win the Beanie contest, but I can tell you that I would RECOMMEND the site wholeheartedly as a good, useful site. If there's anything bad about it, I have yet to see it. It was useful to me, and if it's not useful to you then remove it from your bookmarks and don't bash it unless you trashed a Linux installation with it.

    It seems that you have an opinion about the site, but you fail to show good reasons for it. I mean, it's not as if I really care one way or another because it's not my site, but I can't see what would make you think that LNO is so bad. How about you do a little legwork yourself. You just might wind up proving the OPPOSITE of your opinion, IMHO...
  • I can't believe no one hasn't nominated that guy that always posts under the name "Anonymous Coward". He always posts so MANY comments in every discussion (he's almost super human in how it seems he never even goes to sleep. A new story can be posted at 3 AM EST, and there he his, going "first post!" and plays a very important role around here in encouraging slashdot to add features (witness: Moderation and then meta-moderation, thresholds, etc...).

    Yep. Anonymous Coward should take the grand prize...

    :)
  • Maybe people don't know it even exists, but I LOVE lpe. http://cdsmith.twu.net/lpe/ [twu.net] It's like joe or pico, but I think it has better keyboard commands, and best of all it, has syntax highlighting for java, c, perl, c++ and html. So, lpe is all I ever use for my ediitng purposes. It combines the syntax highlighting of things like vim with an even easier to use interface than joe or pico. I suggest you all check it out(especially you debian maintainers, I want a deb of it!)
  • I didn't realize the voting was still going on--it's been how long, two weeks?

    Yes, that was the plan. The voting was to be counted in two weeks after it was announced. That means the contest is about up. If you haven't voted, please do it now.
  • "Best Open Source Developer Beard Award!"?

    Doesn't that exclude most of the female technogeeks? For example, my neighbour, Micosoftie that she is, is one heck of a technogeek, and if I could just sway her over from the Dark Side (TM), she could be in the running for this, except - she's blond and has no beard. But brains, yup, tons of those ...

  • Sometimes insults, flames and having your head cut off are good learning experience.

    You can have as many friendly, helpful and cheerful helpers as you want to carefully guide and correct the newbie, but there has to be at least one person doing the weaning. At some point the newbie has to learn that he can and should try to find out stuff himself.

    "Spare the flame and spoil the newbie"
  • And to the rest of you who responded to my post: you are all forgiven. You are forgiven for calling me names; you are forgiven for calling my mother a moron (may she rest in peace); and you are forgiven for accusing me of not having been to the the linuxnewbie site (how do you think I wrote my original post?)

    I'm serious. I understand completely that if you feel insulted or passionately about something it is natural to lash out. I've done it myself. But I think this is a serious topic and worth pursuing so I'm ignoring all the noise.

    Respond, if you'd like, to the actual details of what I posted (hint: it would make you look more credible if you admit which parts you might agree with and separately which parts you disagree with) and we can talk about it. Helping newbies is a noble cause and worth getting right, which I suspect is the reason the award is being given.

  • Come on folks! How could you forget the "Best Open Source Developer Beard Award!". Sheesh! My vote goes to RMS with Mr. Cox coming in a close second.
  • I prefer to think of award money as just a way of making things interesting. The award itself is a means to recognize an accoplishment. Money is iceing on the cake. If you were to win an award, the recognition would be grand, but money would make it so much sweeter.

    Don't let money get in the way.
  • Is it possible to exchange that hug from CowboyNeal for a few shares of stock in VA, Redhat or Andover? Come on, if I'd win, I'd be more than happy to not be hugged by a sweaty geek ;-). Just a one or two share token... just a drop in the biiiiiiig collective bucket... nobody would even notice...

    --

  • Then write an editorial response of some kind, if you think his opinion is invalid. I don't really care.

    [sigh] I did write one, it's what you read. And you didn't care so much you ... responded. I get so sick of this kind of thing (believe me, compared to the rest here, you are an angel) people mouthing off "betawze I huwt dere feewings"

    Newbies don't write the documentation.

    mmmm... I'll give you your interpretation, though if you go read the page with the credo it says the site is "we the newbies" and doc is written by "users"... forgive me for being confused.

  • Your points are well taken, thank you, but they don't answer mine.

    The LinuxNewbie discussion groups permit everybody to post questions as well as advice.

    I didn't criticize the discussions groups, in this post. In the other post I criticized just the discussion about switching to NT. I thought that whole thread was a little strange on a site whose name is "linuxnewbie", a site that carried an editorial criticizing LinuxOne (rightfully) for riding on the linux name.

    Due to this, there is good probablity that SOME advice given may not be the right advice.

    I think my critique was pretty comprehensive, and not focused on random erroneous info.

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