DoCoMo To Use Linux On Their 3G phones

ilbrec writes "Looks like NTT DoCoMo will be using Linux on their 3G phones next year. This actually was reported yesterday in Japan (here), but I could not find any article in English until now. While it's not clear who will be making the Linux phone for them, I would certainly be interested in seeing them once they are out. No word on this anywhere at DoCoMo's website at all, however." Reader paku adds links to similar coverage in Forbes and in Japan Today.

Montevista

That's who makes just about anything embedded-Linux based.

bad idea....

top use something like linux on a mobile IMO... we have enough exploitable mobiles out there already, better use something simple without toys...

greetings,

Kodo [kodo.me.uk]

Well, it's an option anyway.

Quoth Forbes article

DoCoMo does not intend to force them to use the Linux-based software and it does not preclude the use of other operating systems including Smartphone software from Microsoft Corp as future OS candidates for its 3G phones, the source said.

Simon.

Re:Well, it's an option anyway.

The engineers decided on Linux, but the PHBs don't want to take risks (correctly, by the way.) So they, in their usual manner, tell us something while telling us nothing, and not committing to anything.

But seriously, Linux is great on embedded systems. I am right now working with Arcom's PC/104 board that has XScale CPU on it. I left the board plugged in for several months, and when I checked it was still working fine :-) It's Debian, btw, and takes only 8 MB Flash (other 8 MB are free, and I have larger CompactFlash plugged in as /dev/hda for development).

dont hold your breath

I don't think the cdma people will even carry it. I reather have a 2.5G phone since the GSM carriers deliver, sprint has been promising for 7 months a bluetooth phone, so I don't think that eather sprint of verizon, the 2 cdma and therefor the only 3g networks in the us, will ever carrie it, I ditched sprint last week for a 2.5G company T-Mobil because they have the better phones, yes the theredical speed of the net is slower but the applided speed is faster because it is there. see this page I did http://slashdot.org/~mpost4/journal/53591 [slashdot.org]

It'll be Monte Vista Linux

If it's the Panasonic model.

(posted anonymously because I'm working on that project)

Reasons for adopting Linux

Nitpick:

Linux is an open-source, easy-to-modify, and license-free product.

No it's not. It's free licence. These people need to understand libre software [slashdot.org].

Manufacturers are expected to comply with DoCoMo's request to replace their systems with a unified Linux standard apparently for fear of being left out in the cold

Now, is this a good reason to move to Linux? I mean, if this is the reason for small manufacturers to move, had DoCoMo chosen Windows, they would probably have moved to that instead. Oh well.

On Bizzaro World...

Can you hack these phones to run Windows and not support the Evil Penguin Empire?

GPL

How does this work as far as distributing the source code? Is that available for modification and if so is it possible to upload a self-improved OS to the phone?

Does that open up the possibility of doing clever things or am I being ignorant? If the former then this could be great, if the latter - hey, I only wrote telecommns code for two years, what do you expect?

Dude, Symbian rocks the house.

At the same time, DoCoMo is also looking into the possibility of developing a standard based on an OS made by Symbian Ltd., a British firm whose OS is used widely in Europe and in some handsets in Japan.

(the above from the article.)

My wife's phone uses Symbian's OS. It's very, very nice. Unless someone comes out with a killer phone app requiring the linux kernel, I think DoCoMo would be better off with Symbian.

Although I would give a mint to be able to use regexps on my phone book.

Will there ever be a standard?

We all know Microsoft is trying to be the "standard" for cell-phone operating systems much in the way that they took over almost the entire desktop and workplace market, but will there ever be a Linux standard? I know Symbian [sybian.com] is also trying to create a standard for cell phones that already is quite strong in Europe, but there really should be a consortium where Linux developers can get together and set standards, instead of them being scattered across the internet proposing a few ideas.

If there's going to be standards, they should always be open source and free as in beer. Corporate control of standards only creates monopolies. Even in America, a lot of people are dropping their landlines for cellphones, and if there's ever a Linux standard for it, it should be created quickly before it's too late.

a few standards to be available...

according to zdnet japan [zdnet.co.jp] (sorry link in japanese), DoCoMo added Linux as an option for manufacturers to choose from, by setting standardized specs for Linux on 3G. apparently DoCoMo doesn't want to limit choices of OS on 3G. The article says that they have specs (requirement) for Symbian OS available also.

As Japan's largest provider, DoCoMo's relaxed stance on choice of OS may benefit manufacturers and consumers in a long run. Obviously people at DoCoMo can't care less about the OS that will soon be running inside of every car [yahoo.com].

Freedom of choice is a blessing these days...

One Year From Now...

I can just see the headline on Slashdot a year from now will be:

DoCoMo accused of GPL violation, fails to release modified code.

But will they include the sources?

Given that the FSF will not pursue anyone who abuses the GPL unless the abused code's copyright is owned by the FSF, and given that no other organization seems to be protecting the GPL, what guarantee do we have that the sources will be included and this will be legit? Answer: None.

Probably will be modded a troll, but...

I mean this seriously. Would a good sign of Linux becoming more mainstream be when it's no longer news that a company is using Linux in their products?

Phones and operating systems

What I don't understand is why anyone needs to cram a whole multi-user, multi-tasking OS onto a small device with only two or three modes of operation (voice phone, Internet and maybe digital camera). None of these devices really need to be upgradeable - most Europeans get a whole new phone every 12-18 months because their network provider allows cheap upgrades - so that can't be the reason.

Presumably it's cheaper to build additional processor speed and storage into the device, to cope with the overhead of Linux/Windows Embedded, than it is to spend developer time to knock up a custom OS for the limited hardware?

Re:Phones and operating systems

Cos you can rip out what you don't need and add what you do fairly easily.

For example, all the userland stuff can go - just cos it'll have a user doesn't mean it needs to use the existing, highly secure multi-user stuff.

The multi-task stuff may well be of use, as phones are not RTE any more. The chips almost certainly are still, but certainly not the front end.

Justin.

Not DotCom !

Don't forget: re-arrange the letters in NTT DoCoMo and what you get is "Not Dotcom" !

O/S not the main consideration

Many handset vendors are working with Linux in some way, and some vendors like Motorola are working with all kinds of O/S from Linux through to Symbian and MS.

But does the O/S really matter if all the phones support Java now anyway? If you're going to write software for open mobile deployment, wouldn't you be inclined to consider Java first since it alone is ubiquitous on phones? O/S generally doesn't count for much in that decision.

More than that, consider the data formats... Those indespensible new compelling 3G services if they ever eventuate will be all about selling and consuming data. Whose format(s) are service vendors going to use and support and work with? The content is what will be monetized with consumers and the format is what determines the nature of the franchises, like e.g. Office on the desktop.

Whether the data format is something proprietary like .ppt or .doc or .swf or something open like SVG or XHTML I think is more significant to mobile developers' careers than the O/S.

Look at the SMS business - the SMS standard can be implemented on any phone O/S and in fact it has been implemented on all of them. That is why SMS has been able to grow to $36b per year today.

Who is making the phone

While it's not clear who will be making the Linux phone for them [...]

As I recall from the NTT iMode service, NTT just set the technical specifications. Any manufacturer who wants to sell iMode phones has to follow these specs, and they do it, because the iMode market in Japan is huge.

My guess is that the same thing applies to the 3G handset. There probably won't be a dedicated handset manufacturer but each of them will produce a "NTT compliant" phone.

And since the Japanese version of IMT 2000 is "slightly" different than those in Europe and America, you won't be able to use those phones anywhere else without modifications.

Makes A Lot Of Sense.

In many ways Linux and the whole Open Source way of doing things is ideal for this kind of application. It makes a certain amount of sense to standardize certain aspects of the OS on mobile phones, after all it is a communication device, and having every thing talk the same language is an obvious bonus.

The article talks about how many different manufacturers are running different systems on their phone. The linux initiative would mean that all of those companies can contribute to an open standard codebase and have the same os running on a bunch of different architectures, The other bonus of course is that they can choose their hardware based on merit / cost instead of having to choose the hardware based on whatever hardware company is sharing the redmond pie.

Interested to see one?

"I would certainly be interested in seeing them once they are out."

Of course, if they do their job properly then you wouldn't be able to tell that it runs linux. It would just do phone stuff.

Additional links & NEC to offer Linux phones

This actually was reported yesterday in Japan (here), but I could not find any article in English until now.

Courtesy of the Rejected Post Machine:

NTT DoCoMo: Linux-based 3G Mobile Phones in 2004

* 2003-12-02 11:59:33 NTT DoCoMo: Linux-based 3G Mobile Phones in 2004 (articles,pilot)(rejected)

Reuters [reuters.co.uk] cites a confidential source as saying that NTT DoCoMo will offer its customers Linux-based 3G mobile phones in 2004 [forbes.com]. DoCoMo has apparently sent specifications to handset manufacturers and DoCoMo [nttdocomo.com] supplier NEC [nec.com] has said that it will offer Linux-based phones by 2004. If true, the report would indicate a shift from the dominant TRON and Symbian-based handsets.

This was also submitted yesterday morning, but I guess Reuters wasn't considered authoritative enough until the English version of the Japanese story. =)

hmmm

I just wanted to add that I had put this in as a submission 3 days ago. I know the submission big can be a bit lagged, but I know damn well it isn't 3 days lagged. Grr.

DoCoMo & Linux ... AT&T Wireless & Mic

This is particularly interesting considering DoCoMo bought a large stake in AT&T Wireless last year. AT&T Wireless is based in Redmond, WA, and has announced that they plan to use Microsoft products in their phones. I suppose DoCoMo could influence AT&T Wireless to switch over.

I was one of the first Westerners

to get a Docomo imode phone.

Docomo, like Sony is one of those companies you want to hate but end up rather liking. Sony, you hate for the AIBO hacking controversy, saves itself with the Linux kit for PS2.

Docomo is a money-grabbing, high priced qu(e)asi-governmental monopoly. But it knows that by adapting Linux to run on a phone, it wins tecchie friends.

The first imode phone came out in February 1999. I bought one (the black f501i) in March 1999 when I arrived in Japan. I wanted a phone I could send email from because I didn't have a PC. That phone was nice and was way ahead of it's time (even in Japan)

Docomo's Linux offering will also be good, as it has tecchie know-how. Oh, and NTT Docomo has one of the highest market capitalisations on the planet.

English site

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8011783890.html

Oh Goodie! More Freaking Cellphones!

No matter what the operating system, I have no doubt that mobile phones in Japan will continue to be used by pedestrian-endangering people on bicycles and incredibly irritating Japanese schoolgirls who insist on keeping their "SMAP" ringtone at TOP VOLUME while riding the train.

Dear God, perhaps Linux based phones will be able to tell when this is happening to reach out and give them a good whack. (That was a joke. Please don't reply and tell me why the OS doesn't make a lick of difference. Thanks.)

Moderators: Think this is a Troll? Move to Japan - I DARE YOU! They'll make you give up all your moderator points at your port of entry, but in return you'll get a delightful pack of ad-ridden tissue paper.

Re:3G is dying

I predict that 3g will eventually catch on as 2g clients wish to upgrade to bigger and better things. 3g isn't dead yet.

Re:Linux /Java virus.

I've always questioned the need for games and apps on a phone.

How else will we overhear things like this on the bus: "Beep-beep-boop, *Ring*! Hello, yeah, I'm on the bus. Listen, I'm going for a high score in Dark Evil Castle of Doom, can I call you back? Yeah, I'll put it in my schedule. Okay, bye! Boop-beep-beep..."

Happy happy, joy joy.

Re:Obligatory Beowulf joke.... coming up :-)

Hey! distributed computing to cure cancer.

Hmmzz... Didn't they say that Cell Phones could be causing cancer ?

Re:3G is dying

yes, that was the general idea I was hinting at. good to see not everyone here is totally dim.

the "I predict.." is also based on a Homer Simpson quote.

Re:Setting the pace

you mean there is 4G? if 3G was marketed as the best thing since sliced bread what will 4G be marketed as?

Mods on crack

Please could some mods with functional brains actually recognise this for the bullshit it is? "Host the phone interface on a central Solaris cluster," my arse!

Re:3G is dying

3G is not dead yet, but it is not alive either. From a few reports that I read, the network is a solution in search of a problem. Who would regularly need to stream real time video on the phone, paying 10 cents (or something) per minute, all the while trying to make out details of a tiny 2" barely visible picture?

Maybe in Japan, or in Europe, train or bus passengers would want the network to entertain them in some way while in transit. But most likely IP rights will make it impossible anyway, so they will be limited to simple Web browsing (on a phone? come on...) In USA there are no trains or buses, for all intents & purposes; people fly. But you can't use 3G in flight, so back to old trusty laptop with all the wealth of video and audio one can only imagine...

If anyone really wants to make a killer phone, make it just small enough to be worn as a wristwatch. That would be much more useful than all those petabytes per second. My friends always leave their phones where they themselves are not - on the desk, in a bag, in a car, at home - you name it, they left it there. And of course once someone leaves the phone on the desk and walks out, the phone rings...

Many best things that we enjoy are not marvelous novelties, but something well known, but perfected to absolute excellence, to its limit. I dare say, the phone shall follow this path.

Re:Setting the pace

so we're thinking of installing the Citrix ICA client and host the phone interface on a central Solaris cluster.

HA HA HA! This is great. Clearly, AC does not know what he is talking about and is a karma whore. Hosting the phone interface on a central Solaris cluster and connecting to it by a Citrix ICA client? Did it occur to anyone else that this doesn't make the least bit of sense?

Re:Setting the pace

Why use redhat when Asia has their own Linux?

Re:Linux /Java virus.

Good luck, Java implements a security manager so the user would have to explicitly grant the malicious code to do nasty stuff, assuming of course that the platform even worked in the ability to let the user choose.