Journal fiannaFailMan's Journal: A vote for Nader is a vote for Bush 35
We don't have the luxury of Single Transferable Voting in the US, so there is no room for third parties. And even if we did, it would be irrelevant to the Presidential election because there is only one position up for grabs. So let's not kid ourselves, there may have been some similarities between the Democrats and Republicans in years gone by but we simply cannot allow the country to fall under another four years of fascist rule by this brain-dead puppet. There is no room for a third party in this election, especially when the top priority has to be making sure that all liberals, progressives, and reasonably sane people cast their votes to the candidate most likely to beat Bush. Don't throw away your vote to Nader. After all the thievery in Florida last time and the indications that this election will be every bit as close, only a handful of liberals voting for Nader could be enough to give us another four years of Bush. PLEASE don't do it!!!
Yep. (Score:2)
Re:Yep. (Score:2)
Re:Yep. (Score:2)
Re:Yep. (Score:1)
Kerry doesn't need my help. Bush doesn't deserve it. At least by voting for Nader, I help to make a third party viable for a future election.
But in the 1992 election... (Score:1, Informative)
Re:But in the 1992 election... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:But in the 1992 election... (Score:2)
Haliburton is a red herring. There's no proof of any wrongdoing.
Indeed! (Score:1)
Kerry == Bush (Score:3, Interesting)
Here's the Big Secret of modern American politics. The Democrats and Republicans are on The Same Team. Look at the most hideous legislation to come out of Congress in the past decades. Did it squeak by along party lines? No. Most of it had overwhelming support of both Democrats and Republicans.
This is due to a few obvious reasons:
- Both parties have abandoned their historical positions in favor of short term fads and poll chasing.
- Both parties have abandoned any moral basis that might have been used to guide and predict their actions.
- Both parties are so similar that it doesn't matter who wins. We, the little guys, lose.
The "Lesser of Two Evils" approach to voting for President has all sorts of Nasty side effects. (It sure came to bite us in the ass by getting Bush into office. It boggles my mind that I could even consider that maybe we would have been better off with Gore.) A prime problem, IMHO, of the Lesser of Two Evils voting strategy is that the candidate that you vote for will interpret your vote as a mandate for ALL of his policies both present and future. I can't vote for Kerry because he will misunderstand my vote. My vote will go to the candidate who will get us out of Iraq, lower government spending, cut taxes, etc. If I voted for Kerry he'd assume that I was supporting all of his little pet policies (which, at the moment are pretty damned vague. A good strategy considering that GWB has played out enough rope to hang himself.)
The past four years have been very very ugly.
The next four years are going to be very very ugly. It doesn't matter who wins.
Sad, but true.
Peter
Kerry != Bush (Score:2)
Re:Kerry != Bush (Score:2)
I'll be voting for Badnarik too.
Re:Kerry != Bush (Score:2)
First of all, drop your spiel about Single Transferrable Voting. Even if we did have STV, you'd still be advocating putting Kerry as a top-preference over Nader if your goal is to get Bush out of office. So, STV really has nothing to do with what the issue is.
The issue is: you want Bush out of office. The optimal way to do that is to vote for Kerry. It is suboptimal to vote for Nader. In fact, the way the system is set up, it is likely to be detrimental to vote for Nader if you want Bush out of offic
Re:Kerry != Bush (Score:2)
Re:Kerry != Bush (Score:2)
This may be how it was in the past, but now all they try to do is discredit third party candidates or keep them out of the elections. Look at what was done to Perot by Republicans in 96. Was his position on NAFTA picked up by any Republicans? No. Look at how the democrats are treating Nader, they aren't adopting his positions, they are trying to discourage his voters by saying he doesn't matter
Third Parties are poor at affecting short term issues. Democrats would have to lose a couple times before the
Re:Kerry != Bush (Score:2)
Now Condorcet, on the other hand...
Re:Kerry != Bush (Score:2)
A vote for Kerry is a vote for Bush.
Re:Kerry == Bush (Score:1)
So Kerry has a lot of policies you disagree with. Fine, me too. BUT, I guarante
Re:Kerry == Bush (Score:2)
It's only in states where there's a chance of Kerry winning (even a slim chance) that a vote for a third party candidate i
Re:Kerry == Bush (Score:1)
-If
Re:Kerry == Bush (Score:2)
Re:Umm... (Score:2)
No room for third parties. (Score:2)
Bush: Interventionist Kerry: Interventonist
The only difference is Kerry will send our troops to die for the UN while Bush will send them to die for the US. There is no one who wants to look at our foreign policy and put America and Americans first.
Bush: For Globalization Kerry: For Globalization
Sure Kerry talks a good game, about how he will protect certain workers in key states, blah blah blah. He's for
STV Sucks (Score:2)
Re:STV Sucks (Score:2)
Why is this a problem? Instead of 6 small precints with 1 candidate getting elected in each, you have one bigger precinct with 6 candidates getting elected. That's how the system works.
How is this any different from any other system? And at the risk of sounding blunt, any voter who
Approval Rocks (STV Sucks) (Score:2)
No, you misunderstand the term. Summability [google.com] is really Really REALLY useful. If you used IRV for state elections, you would need to collect all the millions of ballots on a single computer before you could even START determining the winner. This would require a completely new infrastructure.
With most other systems (Plurality, Approval, Condorcet, etc) each local precinct
any such system tough to switch to (Score:2)
Re:any such system tough to switch to (Score:2)
Re:any such system tough to switch to (Score:2)
After the last U.S. election one would think the climate was most favourable for a reform like that, but it didn't happen anyway. Any sane call was quickly dragged to the question whether Bush had it stolen or not, and then drowned in the (predictably) resulting howls.
So my point is: while we can continue those academic talks whether this reform is better than that, the current sys
Incorrect (Score:2)
Why is it so difficult for people to understand this -- Nader's policies and Kerry's policies have virtually no overlap. They are completely seperate, different beasts altogether. Now, Kerry's and Bush's policies, on the other hand, have a lot of overlap. Hence, a lot of people want to go to third parties (be it Nader, Green Party, Libertarian, etc) because they realize they are not getting the changes they want with the Big Two.
As for Nader cos
I'll be voting for Bush (Score:2)
In my judgment, he is the best candidate for protecting the United States and our interests from terrorists.
I don't think Kerry has the principals or fortitude.