Journal Chacham's Journal: More college anti-semitism 17
Well, college campuses are at it again. Many people look to college's for opinions. Unfortunately, the only thing they ever do is be self-centered and unabashed to display their own ignorance. The media then reports it, and people take on their silly views. If the sixties didn't teach us that college students are morons, there is no hope.
The newer problems with college campuses is taking up the Muslim anti-Israel efforts. If anyone didn't know, there have been violent demonstrations, including one where police presence was called in one California university to project the Jewish Students who were cornered by an angry mob. Harvard, known for the old Jew-quotas, recently let ant-semetic speeches go forward to support free speech. And the Candadian Concordia University allowed a violent demonstration to cancel Benjamin Netanyahu's (former Israeli Prime Miniter, currently Foreign Minister) speech.
But that's not all. Colleges have some Jewish fuinctions to help Jewish students. The most famous is known as Hillel. They help provide kosher food, places for prayer, and Jewish get togethers. But now, their under attack. Concordia's student union expelled them. It's horrible. In Israel, Muslims kill Jews and people tell Israel to make more concessions. In France and other European Countries mobs beat up Jews (so much so that the police warn caution for Jews) and little is done to protect them. In Canada, the Magen Dovid Edom (Israel's Red Cross, that the International Red Cross refuses to recognize) charity was losing its charity status and thus donations were to be taxed (it was successfully fought). On universities there are violent mobs and speakers praising homicide-bombers, with Israeli speaches being cancelled, and Jewish groups expelled.
It's truly amazing. Had this happened to blacks, hispanics, or even Muslims, the news wouldn't let anyone forget it. When it happens to Jews, its brushed under the rug and nobody seems to care. (Except once in a while Fox News mentions something.) Oh well, in case you didn't know.
Indeed... (Score:2)
Some more resources on the subject, from those whose reliance on the media for news has caused them to miss this issue:
Outside my experience (Score:1)
Similarly, when I entered college, it turns out my roommate was Jewish. Weird. Never been around a Jewish person for that length of time. Turns out it was no big thing. Except for the big holidays (Yom Kippur? Rosh Hashan? Sorry for the atrocious spelling. Sorry for not remembering the details) He was just another guy. So were all the other Jewish kids (I think about 20% of the school). I mean... Who gives a damn? I mean, there's the Black Student Association doing their thing, the Christian group doing their thing, the Jewish group doing their thing.
Maybe I was naive. I thought the anti-Semitic crap was a throwback to the 50's, with the exception of some white-power psychos.
Now, as a country, I don't trust Israel much more than I trust France. OTOH, the Israelis are a bit more honest and easier to deal with than their neighbors in the Middle East. Okay, more than a bit. If they do something stupid (blasting the shit out of Arafat's compound) they do it in full view of CNN and Christiane Amanpour. I don't have to deal with some lying bastard saying "Oh, we had no idea that charity was sending money to Al Qaeda". Maybe that's what it boils down to: I'm not seeing a raft of lies and doubletalk from the Israelis. They also had the sense to send Myer Lansky packing:)
It must be some college or upper class type of thing. I work with mostly blue collar folks, and while they aren't especially fond of Jews (although I detect no particular animus) there is no love lost for the Arabs.
Yup, you can be politically correct, as long as you ain't white. And now, apparantly, Jewish. Ironic given that the Jewish people are clearly a minority everywhere on the planet EXCEPT Israel. Guess that makes them evil, huh?
Coming next at SFSU:
Revisionism 101, Holocaust, or Just a Bunch of Hebe Lies?
Re:Outside my experience (Score:1)
That was a time when whites were *openly* anti-semetic. Now, they just aren't so open.
Overall, when I walk down the street and look like a Jew the main two groups that call out names are Arabs and blacks. Though, the Arabs don't do it as often.
Now, as a country, I don't trust Israel much more than I trust France.
Then you have problems.
are clearly a minority everywhere on the planet EXCEPT Israel.
And with the irreligious Jews making up most of the country, and that majority not having many kids, the Jewish population is become like the Shakers. They survive by immigrants. The Arab population, however, is exploding. There have been forecasts about the Jews losing their majority soon enough (decade or half-century, I don't remember).
Revisionism 101, Holocaust, or Just a Bunch of Hebe Lies?
Don't laugh too hard. More people are denying the Holocaust now, and without appropriate counter-claims, that may just happen.
Re:Outside my experience (Score:1)
My only complaints are the (IMHO) excessive number of spies they have in the US. Seems unneccessary and a waste of resources. Nope, no sources, it's been about 5 years since I read about it. Honestly, that's about my only problem.
Also, France was an awful, awful, awful choice for comparison. I find the Russians more open and honest than the French.
Don't laugh too hard. More people are denying the Holocaust now, and without appropriate counter-claims, that may just happen.
I spent an evening looking at some of the 'evidence' denying the Holocaust. I couldn't believe how much credence was given to some of this crap.
While vaguely on topic, let me state that the Basques in Spain have me a bit worried as well.
I always found it interesting that there is such a schism between Jewish Americans and Black Americans. I thought one of the chants of the white power brigade is that the 'negroes were the foot soliders for the Zionist conspiracy' or something along those lines.
Re:Outside my experience (Score:1)
Interesting. Valid complaint. I'll retort, though I am not denying anything. (Not that I know enough about this too anyway...)
Spies always spy on countries. When WW2 broke out, Russia opened its borders for a small period of time. Why? to let spies "immigrate" with others. When enough spies went out, the re-sealed the borders.
Israel has a stragic deal with the US. The US is supposed to pass information to Israel. For example, before the Gulf War, the US was supposed to tell Israel about its intelligence information that Saddam was going to fire chemical warheads at them. They didn't. So, someone spied for Israel and passed in the information which allowed Israel to prepare (gas masks, sealed rooms). Had the missled spread disease, and had Israel not known, it could have been devastating. Unfortunately, the US has a history of not sharing information that it should, so friendly countries find the only way to get anything is by spying. If caught, spying from a friendly nation is a pretty minor offense, and people get off after only a small time in jail. (Except Jonathan Pollard, which someone is Washington seems to have a vendeta against him.)
It's probably the State Department. Besides being liberal and defiant to Rebublican presidents, they absolutely refuse to recognize Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel. They reference Jerusalem without mentioning Israel. Hopefully, however, the US embassy will be moved there soon enough, in complinance with the overwhelming vote of both houses a few years ago.
I can't stand spying either. But I understand why now. That knowledge makes them seem less evil.
Also, France was an awful, awful, awful choice for comparison. I find the Russians more open and honest than the French.
Yeah, but the Duma (Russian lower house of parliment) is rather anti-semetic right now. But they are better that France in many respects. Jaque Chiraq publicly snubbed Israel when he visited the PLO under the guise of visiting Israel. But then the Pope did that too to some extent.
While vaguely on topic, let me state that the Basques in Spain have me a bit worried as well.
Not familar with them. Though, Spain seems nice. They haven't expelled the Jews since 1492, and they have burnt anyone at the stake since the inquisition ended.
I always found it interesting that there is such a schism between Jewish Americans and Black Americans.
So do I. But when I go to black populate malls and hear racial slurs by them, I just keep my distance. I know that's Detroit. In (a suberb of) St. Louis I found many very pleasant blacks who went out of there way to be nice to me. So, it may be a city by city thing.
I thought one of the chants of the white power brigade is that the 'negroes were the foot soliders for the Zionist conspiracy' or something along those lines.
Who knows? What they say is irrelevant. They'll say anything to stir themselves up, and proving them wrong only makes it worse.
Re:Outside my experience (Score:2)
I certainly have heard some antisemitism, and it was at an anti-war rally (I waren't there. Radio.) but it drew silence and horror from the crowd. It's a far cry from the "liberals are antisemites" that I keep hearing about.
The thing that really confuses me is... all the Jews I know are liberal. Really liberal. All the liberals I know, Jews included, feel that Israel must be protected from its enemies... and that the Palestinians must significantly change their behavior if they desire peace.
As a country, I trust Israel much much more than I trust France - not because they are less likely to change their opinion, but because their interests are more congruous with ours. The US has very significant financial and military investments in Israel. If we lost that, we would be diminished. If Israel lost that, they would be diminished.
Hell, the most liberal Jew I know is a professor at SFSU. He's opposed to GW's war on Iraq, and he's certainly expressed dissappointment with some of Israel's actions, but he's not anti-israel, and he certainly isn't an anti-semite.
Maybe I just don't understand. What is the basis to the conservative opinion that liberals are anti-semites? Or even anti-Israeli?
Re:Outside my experience (Score:1)
Right now, its not happening everywhere in the Americas as it is in Europe. So, you can hear about it but not see it.
It's a far cry from the "liberals are antisemites" that I keep hearing about.
Who ever said that?
The thing that really confuses me is... all the Jews I know are liberal. Really liberal.
Religous Jews are usually conservative (trend is changing this way) non-relgious Jews are usually liberal. As for being "really" liberal, Jews tend to be passionate, so they go the extra mile when something is their cause.
All the liberals I know, Jews included, feel that Israel must be protected from its enemies... and that the Palestinians must significantly change their behavior if they desire peace.
That is not the standard liberal view.
The standard liberal view is "land for peace". In other words, Israel *first* gives land, and *after that* the arabs promise peace. The liberals may demand that peace be part of the agreement, but not that it happens first. This is clearly seen in all the agreements that the Clintonian White House handled.
Unfortunately, when Israel gave land, and the PLO didn't change, the liberals made excuses about why they didn't give peace.
The standard conservative view (amongst those who wish co-existence) is that first comes peace, then comes land.
Jews outside of Israel are still passionate about Israel, and therefore, even when liberal, may espouse a more conservative view. In reality, however, they likely do not truly believe it, and this can be seen when asking about specific incidences, and they start making excuses.
As a country, I trust Israel much much more than I trust France - not because they are less likely to change their opinion, but because their interests are more congruous with ours. The US has very significant financial and military investments in Israel. If we lost that, we would be diminished.
Not to forget that when Iraq had a nuclear facility, Israel bombed it for the US. There is a close relationship betwen the two countries.
If Israel lost that, they would be diminished.
Probably true.
Hell, the most liberal Jew I know is a professor at SFSU. He's opposed to GW's war on Iraq, and he's certainly expressed dissappointment with some of Israel's actions, but he's not anti-israel, and he certainly isn't an anti-semite.
There are jews who have married arabs and are anti-Israel. NPR just has one such lady on this afternoon. There also was that nut who keeps being noisy and rallying against Israel.
Maybe I just don't understand. What is the basis to the conservative opinion that liberals are anti-semites?
I do not believe there is such an opinion. The closest view I can think of is that liberals cause class warfare by promoting the classification of groups, rater than just seeing "people".
Or even anti-Israeli?
They are not so much anti-Israel, as reluctant to promote the use of force. As such, that forces Israel not to respond, and to make unreciprocated concessions. This can be construed as passively anti-Israel. Though they don't mean it that way.
Conservatives are generally pro-Israel though, because they see the use of logic and might as appropriate methods to attain agreements. Also, conservatives have a much easier time labelling friend or foe, and believing it strongly enough to take action upon it.
Re:Outside my experience (Score:1)
This is why I think the Palestinians can go fuck themselves for the most part. (There is a reason number two that I will include, just for the sake of completeness). I thought the Dayton Accords would be a great step forward. "Okay, here's some of your land, back off". Didn't work out that way, did it?
Second point: why doesn't Jordan, Iraq, Iran, etc, etc. take in the Palestinians? If they are such great people, why wouldn't you welcome them with open arms? Talk about duplicity.
RE: Israeli vs. French Friendship
Almost forgot who sold Iraq much of their weapon making facilities: France. Who sold them some Exocet missles: France. Ah, yes, good buddy France. With friends like that, who needs North Korea?
Re:Outside my experience (Score:1)
I forget some of the fine points, and I would appreciate anyone clearing it up for me.
The PLO used to be in Lebanon (late seventies). They attacked the Christian Arabs in southern Lebanon and northern Israel. When Lebanon didn't respond, Israel fought all the way to Beirut to force their hand. Then they agreed to some ceasefire and let Arafat leave the country. So, they only caused trouble in Lebanon.
Jordan has two types (sorry, I do not know the appropriate word, maybe arch-families, dynasties, sects, or something) of Arabs. One is the same type as those who are called Palestinians and they are the overwhelming majority. The ruling party, however, is in the minority. There is a general fear that should the PLO move to Jordan, they will get enough sympathy to be able to overthrow the ruling party (as they have tried in the past). So, they absolutely refuse to let them in.
Most of the Arab states hate Israel, and at least some do not want the PLO in their country because they are a threat to their stability, so helping them fight Israel is to kill two birds with one stone.
Almost forgot who sold Iraq much of their weapon making facilities: France. Who sold them some Exocet missles: France.
Interesting. I knew that Russia helped them out, I was unaware of France. I'll have to keep a lookout for more information regarding that.
Re:Outside my experience (Score:1)
ethical relativity (Score:2)
i think the problem is that by not allowing any sort of talk that might even possibly be considered offensive to any minority group, more energy is directed at a few select groups, and it is more negative than it would have been otherwise. people need to be able to identify with a group. it's part of our nature. it is possible to be proud to be a part of an ethnicity, race, religion, while still appreciating that other people are members of their own groups.
this is one of the casualties of political correctness, imho. you can't draw attention to differences even if you don't think there is anything good or bad about those differences. i think some people feel bottled up and look for a group that other groups don't favour too much. then they actively hate that group as a sort of way of belonging to their own group. it's ok to say evil things of the germans in england. it's ok for US northerners to make redneck and hillbilly blanket statements about the south. i think because of historical events, jews are a group that has traditionally been segregated from other cultures. so they end up being on the outside to many groups and get a disproportionate amount of ill will directed at them.
i'm not saying that israel never makes mistakes. but i don't think that it is the fault of every jew in the world every time israel does something that us gentiles don't all approve of. it's the same as not every american is directly responsible for actions the US government. not every arab, middle easterner, and muslim is a terrorist. this all seems like pretty straight-forward logic. but we all fit into groups that we identify with. so if someone bad-mouths our group, we take it personally.
i'm not sure where i was going to go with all of this, but this comment has gotten too long. i'm stopping now.
Re:ethical relativity (Score:1)
/me giggles.
i'm not sure where i was going to go with all of this, but this comment has gotten too long. i'm stopping now.
/me can't breathe too..much..laughter
Re:ethical relativity (Score:1)
i think i was just frustrated that as tolerant a society we like to believe we have, there seems to be a need to have some group to look down on or torment. i was trying to figure out why jewish people get selected as that group so frequently. i don't understand why in order to be pro-palestine people feel the need to be anti-jew. the us/them mentality doesn't help things.
but then my train of thought derailed and it was time to stop.
Re:ethical relativity (Score:1)
Oh, don't stop.
i think i was just frustrated that as tolerant a society we like to believe we have, there seems to be a need to have some group to look down on or torment.
It's a strong tendency to look down on others. It's an easy way to gain self-esteem without making too much effort. Instead of raising ourselves up, we can put everyone else down.
i was trying to figure out why jewish people get selected as that group so frequently.
A guess. For as small as Jews are in number, they are the most noticed group in history, and people resent their efforts. When Jews enter politics, they're trying to take over the world, when they make movies, they're forcing public opinion, when they become doctors, they're killing babies. It's a gut reaction to excellence. Look at foreigners with H1-B visas. They get hired not only because they are cheap, but because they do amazings jobs. So, people get angry at them.
And, as a group, Jews have resisted almost every culture there is, and stayed the same throught thousands of years. G-d referred to the Jewish people as a "stiff-necked" people. It has its ups and downs, but it sures ticks off a lot of people.
i don't understand why in order to be pro-palestine people feel the need to be anti-jew.
Neither do I. It may just be the pro-arab view is really a mask for their latent hate. There has got to be people who are pro-arab yet not anti-jew.
the us/them mentality doesn't help things.
Excellent point. This is a general Republican complaint on Democrats. Regardless of how us/them may help, it ultimately forces class warfare. It's true everywhere.
but then my train of thought derailed and it was time to stop.
Better than me. I have a one-track mind, but two opposing trains.
Re:ethical relativity (Score:1)
Re:ethical relativity (Score:2)
"you started it"
"no we didn't"
"yes you did. you invaded poland!"
that was a great series. hillarity always ensued.
Hillel is very cool (Score:2)
But most of my Israeli friends seem pretty anti-Palistinian, and I think today if you're anti anything you'll be looked down on (unless you're anti-anti something), even with legitimate reasoning.
In high school I remember the Jewish folks had a really tightly knit community, and they were kind of ostracized on for that. A lot of anti-semitic people around I guess.