tomhudson's Journal: Why are people afraid of 2 official languages?

There's a move afoot in the US to have English declared the only official language.

The reality in the US is that one out of every two children born is of hispanic descent, and that by 2050, the US will be home to more than 100,000,000 hispanics. They will make up 1/4 of the population, up from 13% now.

Sounds to me like its a good idea to get your kids to learn Spanish.

Its not like the US doesn't already have a territory with an official language policy. Puerto Rico, almost 4 million US citizens, and both English and Spanish are official languages.

You can already file your income taxes using Spanish versions of the tax forms - the IRS makes them available for everyone (there's also an alternate version of many that are specific to Puerto Rico - they end in PR instead of SP):

W-4 (Employee's Withholding), a W-7 (Application for IRS Individual Taxpayer ID), a W-9, a Form 211, a Form 433(D) Installment Agreement, a Form 944 (Employers Annual Tax Rturn), the famous 1040-ES (Estimated tax), a 2159 (Payroll deduction agreement), a 2290 (Heavy highway vehicle use), a 2350 (application for extension of time), a Form 3111 (Taxpayer statement regarding refund), a Form 4868 (application for automatic extension of time), a Form 8300 (report of cash payments of over $10,000.00 received), a Form 8453 (US Individual tax declaration), a Form 8836 (Qualifying children residency statement), an 8857 (Request for innocent spouse relief), a Form 8862 (Information to claim earned income credit), Form 8878 (eFile signature application), 8879 (eFile authorization), a Form 12153(request for collection due process), a Form 13614 (Volunteer Return Preparation Program Credit), and a Form 13844 (Application for reduced user fee).

So any US citizen can already conduct their "official business" with the government in Spanish. Heck, California puts out election material, including ballots, in 7 languages.

Seems to me that the proven advantages of bilingualism, as posted here on slashdot just in the 4-year delay of alzheimers, should be enough to tip the scales.

4 years less of "warehousing" someone, at $25k per annum in current funds, * 300 million people, is $30 trillion bucks in 2007 dollars. Forget the "quality of life" benefits - just the $$$ savings should tip the balance in favour of encouraging the use of Spanish as an official language.

So, why the push to have English declared THE official language? Sounds like some unhappy people are catering to others desire to live in the past, where "white folks" thought they'd always be the undisputed majority, and they're upset now that latinos are flexing their muscles.

The days of the "melting pot", where everyone adopted the majority's culture and values, was never universally true (just ask the Amish), and the reality is that everyone will be a member of a visible minority (including "white folks"), probably in your children's lifetime, but before then, society will have to continue to evolve.

Its not like other countries aren't also undergoing change. Next year, Mohammed will be the #1 name for newborn boys in England (its currently #2, James is #1). Bye, Jimbo, hello, Moe.

So, again, why the big rush to get english as the only official language? Perhaps its because time is running out, gotta close that barn door while they still can ...

Another plus

[BrenBren]

Some studies have shown that children that learn a foreign language tend to do better in tests when they reach high school.

I've said it before in my own JE, and I'll say it here: I'm not worried about having more than one language as "official", so long as they decide.

It's cheaper in the long run to print ballots and informational material in only those languages, than to have to cater to every single person who comes to this country with no incentive to learn the local language(s).

Re:

[tomhudson]

As a side note, if a significant enough number come, doesn't that then make it another local language? Look at the number of vietnamese that came to the US after viet nam. California prints out ballots in Vietnamese because these people are a significant chunk of the local population, and deserve equal services.

I think the whole "cost of printing out ballots" thing is a bit of a red herring, myself ... all it does is highlight a broken voting process that needs to be remade top-to-bottom.

We'd shoot our

It was good enough for...

[RM6f9]

Okay, maybe it *is* time to officially acknowledge that everyone should have the right to have "official" docs in their native language - Washington State is pretty good about providing translators where necessary... Still, there is a reactionary part of me that demands to know why, if my great-grandfather had to learn English to function here, others who immigrate should not have to? (Dad's side - mom's came from England, Wales and Scotland) - the truth of the matter probably won't be decided politically,

Grrr

[Scott Lockwood]

My great-grand parents had to learn English. So should all the illegal aliens fleeing across the border. As should their descendants, and so on. If you want to speak Spanish, move back to Mexico.

Re:

[Captain Splendid]

My great-grand parents had to learn English. So should all the illegal aliens fleeing across the border. As should their descendants, and so on. If you want to speak Spanish, move back to Mexico.

That was then, this is now. Why do people stubbornly hold on to the belief that if something happened/was the norm a long time ago, it should be the norm now? It reminds of a certain generation of Britons, the ones who still haven't fully understood that the UK is no longer an empire.

Re:

[Scott Lockwood]

And now, we're letting them come here in record numbers without forcing them to obey our laws. They overtax our welfare system, cause the crime rate to skyrocket, and then act belligerent when we tell them to learn English.

I don't fucking think so.

This is not Mexico. This is the United States of America. If you are not from here, and you want to live here, follow the law. Period. If you can't do that, go home. It's not about some stubborn belief, unless you consider it stubborn to believe in equality and th

Re:

[tomhudson]

If you check out the history of Texas [wikipedia.org], it broke away from Mexico when Mexico abolished slavery, and sought annexation with the US, where slavery was still legal.

Somehow I don't think the slaves who came along with the deal were too happy about "following the law" and would have rather "gone back home" in the sense of having Texas stay part of Mexico, so they could be free.

Just something to think about.

Re:

[Captain Splendid]

without forcing them to obey our laws.

This sounds like a policing problem, not an immigration problem.

cause the crime rate to skyrocket

Figures please

act belligerent when we tell them to learn English

God, this one's been debunked to hell and back. Again, provide some figures.

Re:

[Scott Lockwood]

without forcing them to obey our laws.

This sounds like a policing problem, not an immigration problem.

cause the crime rate to skyrocket

Figures please

act belligerent when we tell them to learn English

God, this one's been debunked to hell and back. Again, provide some figures.

I can only speak from my personal experience. I've had Mexicans get belligerent with me, personally, because I didn't give them instructions on how to pee in a cup in Spanish. Yes, you got it, they needed to know how to pee in a cup, an

Re:

[Flendon]

I don't know the statistics, so I can only give a few of my personal experiences.

I've been told on several occasions, "We are taking over so you better learn Spanish. In 20 years you'll be the minority. You will have to follow our laws and do things our way. You'd better get used to that fact." The fact that I've gotten an almost identical diatribe from several different Hispanics under various circumstances says a lot to me. These people all essentially told me they wanted to turn the US into a clone of th

Re:

[tomhudson]

You might want to check out the history of New Mexico [wikipedia.org], which only became a state in 1912.

January 6, 1912 Statehood Proclamation signed by President Taft

The constitution provided that, for the following twenty years, all laws passed by the legislature be published in both Spanish and English, and thereafter as the legislature should provide.

Prior to 1967, notices of statewide and county elections were required to be printed in English and "may be printed in Spanish." Additionally, many legal notices tod

Re:

[Scott Lockwood]

Fuck off Pudge.