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Journal Marxist Hacker 42's Journal: The Middle Eastern Islamic Moderate: A Mythical Animal? 30

Journal by Marxist Hacker 42
Ok, you can call this JE the definate admission to something you've all suspected about me for some time. I've lost ALL faith in the possibility of resolving peace within the next 15 generations of mankind. I think our current administration (By firing generals and intelligence sources that didn't toe to their lies) have corrupted the middle management of the armed forces to the point that they don't know how to win a war against Islamic Extremeists. They were counting on big support from the Middle Eastern Islamic moderate- which has failed utterly to materialize; so far all we've got come to our side are more extremeists that shoot our troops in the back as soon as it's in their best interest to do so.

What is needed here is a strong religious figure in the Middle East to do the following:

1. Denounce the linkage of Church and State.
2. Denounce those parts of the Koran (Suras 2, 9, 44, 45, 47, 58, 59 and 65 especially) that link the Church to the State.
3. Decalre the extremeists themselves to be Kufar and killed on sight, or at least the more timid western solution of locking them away in insane asylums like we do to our worst Christians.
4. He needs to be willing to FIGHT and fight hard, for those ideals.

Without such a scholar, this WILL end in nuclear war- the only question is which of the 100 sects or which first world coalition will gain capability and frustration levels high enough first. And somehow, with the lack of courage displayed in the free world, I rather doubt a "coalition" of Americans or Europeans will even live to see the day.
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The Middle Eastern Islamic Moderate: A Mythical Animal? More

The Middle Eastern Islamic Moderate: A Mythical Animal?

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  • to denounce Deuteronomy, and parts of Rvelations?

    You realize that your "solution" makes as musch sense, don't you? You have set up a kind of straw man. If a Cardinal refused doing this, I could by your rule, claim he is not a moderate.
    • to denounce Deuteronomy, and parts of Rvelations?

      Yes, a whole College of Cardinal denouncing wrong interpretations of Deuteronomy and parts of Revelations was a part of the Council of Trent- it's the reason we kicked the Protestants out, and still put certain very extreme preachers of those books behind bars and into insane asylums today.

      You realize that your "solution" makes as musch sense, don't you?

      Yes, in fact it's the entire reason I'm still Roman Catholic! If we did not change our doctrine to f
  • within the next 15 generations of mankind...

    Then there's some hope left, right? At least we have something to look forward to.

    CAVU
    • Who believes that the human species will survive another 15 generations?

      Faith is a wasteful excuse. At this point is history I may be able to count the number of generations personally before I die (DOB: 1950).

      When I visit NYC/Times Square, I always look for the person with the sign "REPENT THE END IS NEAR!" for a sick-humor MontyPython chuckle. Then again, by the rules of faith-based sanity today ... that person could be god/devel/angel and know the facts.
      • To answer your previous journal entry, because it is pertinent:

        God as identified and/or defined by anyone, anything, any religion, any government ... has never existed. IOW: a god cannot be copyrighted, claimed, patented ... except by weak, fearful, slaves of "the unknown and may never be" destiny/option.

        Incorrect. God, by US standards, is a little green slip of paper. We've copyrighted and printed several trillion of him. We look down on other religions, other governments, for not worshiping our lit
        • Marx,

          You are always fun, not a godmatist, and we both understand US and green things so well ... I wish we were both botanist and not discussing faux-prophets and pseudo-idols.

          On the Triangles around the world ... this is my take: [http://www.mms.gov/5-year/2007-2012DEIS/VolumeI/3 AffectedEnvironment.pdf] The most widespread potential for shallow gas may be in the zone of clathrates (frozen gas hydrates) which occur along the continental rise from 2,500 to 3,800 m (8,202 to 12,468 feet) deep. Clathrates can
          • There will never be FFM [Ficking Fact Magic] ... It is or it ain't, all maybes are questions awaiting factual answers (I think, maybe).

            That gets back into religion for me, for in my religion:

            1. God follows his own laws.

            2. We don't know what all of those laws are yet.

            A miracle is just a fortunate coincidence that has yet to find an explaination.
      • Faith is a wasteful excuse.

        Oops. Forgot the smiley thingy :-) Actually, 15 generations isn't a very long time. Less than 500 years, right? Reaching an epiphany by then would be a pleasant surprise. Real progress will be measured on an evolutionary scale of tens to hundreds of thousands of years. All physical traces of our present existence will be long gone, except for our DNA, which might look very different by then. Sure would be cool to come back and see what happens. Natural forces being what they are,
        • Oops. Forgot the smiley thingy :-) Actually, 15 generations isn't a very long time. Less than 500 years, right? Reaching an epiphany by then would be a pleasant surprise. Real progress will be measured on an evolutionary scale of tens to hundreds of thousands of years. All physical traces of our present existence will be long gone, except for our DNA, which might look very different by then. Sure would be cool to come back and see what happens. Natural forces being what they are, there's a pretty good chanc
          • We should, I didn't say we would. It just might take a hundred thousand years to reach that point. The sooner we let go, the sooner it will happen. Clinging to tribal traditions will only prolong the transition.
            • We should, I didn't say we would. It just might take a hundred thousand years to reach that point. The sooner we let go, the sooner it will happen. Clinging to tribal traditions will only prolong the transition.

              Ah, but aren't you only clinging to the Semitic and European tribal tradition of invading and interfering with the cultures of your neighbors, and replacing those cultures with your own wanderlust?
              • Nope, Just the opposite, but I don't believe you can understand that, since you believe all interaction is interference. Definitely a real roadblock in this discussion. If they all want perpetual war, then have at it. That's all the present ways of doing things will get you. There's nothing I can do but to remind them that they're just acting like a bunch of monkeys. It is savagery on par with that throughout history. Tribalism, nationalism(same thing), and all other forms of exclusion have no place in an i
                • Nothing like applying quantum mechanics to anthropology- but how can it not be? By being there, you introduce the idea of an outsider- somebody with new and novel ways to learn about. The tourist is far more disruptive to the culture he visits than the culture is to the tourist's home land, which should be *obvious*.

                  It is savagery on par with that throughout history. Tribalism, nationalism(same thing), and all other forms of exclusion have no place in an intelligent society.

                  Agreed. But human beings a
        • Agreed %~]

          Even if the reboot is pure hell on everyone ... I mean birds are a lot more small and pleasant to look at then the big old carnivorous dinosaurs. Maybe our decedents will look like rodents, frogs, sharks ....
    • Then there's some hope left, right? At least we have something to look forward to.

      Sunday's Doonesbury [doonesbury.com] showed us what we have to look forward to from George W Bush's flawed tactics in Iraq and Afghanistan. If you can't see the webpage, it's an American on a training mission with a Shi'ite milita member in Iraq. (I'm shortening and paraphrasing the dialog, both to avoid copyright concerns and because this was a rather lengthy dialog) The Shi'ite says "I know our target, he's a Sunni who lives at the end
      • What makes us think that prosperity and freedom is enough to erase 700 year old blood feuds?

        I wouldn't have the slightest idea. It's never been tried yet. Everything else has, including attempted extermination. Time to try something completely different, no?

        Christ tried to teach them forgiveness- and they killed him for it.

        The Islamists killed Christ? I always thought it was the Romans, by proxy anyway. Or was it vice-versa?
        • I wouldn't have the slightest idea. It's never been tried yet.

          Not quite. Freedom and prosperity is exactly what Mohammed tried in a way- alongside of the nastier Suras are much more peacefull ones, the ones about how the Ummah are to relate to each other.

          Near as I can tell, within 200 years of Mohammed's death, they were all ignored. Ummah began hating Ummah. There was no clear chain of command, no hierarchy to kick out heretics and solidify a singular vision of Mohammed's teaching. No Vatican, no co
  • Okay I have to comment on whoever left the note that the end times are here. They aren't. They will never appear. Also, I think that the original post does not give nearly enough credit to moderate Muslims. I used to have more moderate Muslim friends than I could count. I've moved to a different area of the country so I'm not around them anymore but they were VERY GOOD PEOPLE and I think of them often. In the United States, it seems that there has been a healthy moderating effect of liberty on these fo

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