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forged's Journal: Married life update 49

Journal by forged
As some of you know, I recently got married. It's been little over two months now.

My wife and I want to begin having children, but it seems it's not easy. In some cases it comes unexpectedly, but sometimes people wanting to have children wait several months (or more) for it to "work". We shall see.

A couple of weeks ago we did something interesting: skydiving. You can see pictures of us here and here. Skydiving is _really_ scary. I tried bungee-jumping before, and the fear is about the same. But once in the air, OMG... It all happens very quickly, then it's plain cool :) Highly recommended. Not for the faint of heart, though !

I was once told that whatever energy you spend trying to date or chat-up other girls, you will gain 10x more if you spend this energy in your own marriage instead. I think this is very true, for having spent hours cooking and caring for my wife during special occasions (birthdays, etc.) and sometimes for no special reason at all. She does the same to me and likes to offer me flowers and comic books once in a while ! So I tend to spend less time at the computer than before. I even gave up IRC (after so many years sucked-in...)

How's life for all of you soon-to-be-married, wish-you-were, been-there-done-that, etc.? Write in here and tell us what's up for you !

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Married life update

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  • is freaking awesome. It's the rest of it that sucks :)

    I think (hopefully without sounding too sappy or stupid) I have found the one that I will be happy with for the rest of my life. I absolutely could not see being without her. So I guess that pretty much sums it up.

    No new news on the marriage front, we are paying off all her student loans and the little credit card debt we have before moving to the next plateau. I figure it will probably be sometime late next year or early 2004 before we finally do it.

    Glad to hear everything is working out for you two. Btw, your comments on pleasing your SO is right on. Most people seem to not get it. Guess I am lucky.
    • Get rid of that credit card debt- yes.

      But student loans are at a major, major 10 year low... unless you can't come up with some other investment that can return more than the loan's interest rates.

      Seriously, think about it. Not all debt is bad... but all credit card debt is horrible (and potentially carcinogenic. No foolin' around!)
      • I can only agree! My student loan goes up to 2010, and it's only 2% interest rate. I even decuct this interest partially from taxes, and it paid nearly 1/4 of my sports car! Whooohooo: that student loan is there to stay, and it's not the 175Euro monthly that is going to kill me.
      • I am not paying her student loan debt, she is. I guess I used an ambiguous we there.

        I meant her student loans and our (seperate, but total) credit card debt.
        • Regardless of who is paying the question still stands. You can find Certificates of Deposits at banks which will yeild more than the interest on her student loans. And CD's SUCK!

          Make your credit cards a TOP priority, but don't sweat the student loans. Pay them off, but don't let them prevent you from doing something else with your money (saving for a wedding, buying a house, buying an Acura NSX, partyhopping in Ibiza (does anyone do that anymore?), etc.)
          becuase the rate of return (on another investment) vs. the rate of interest (on the student loans)is very much so in her favor.

          Where as with credit cards (typically between 15 and 20 % apr) if you can find some investment with a rate of return that is on par and above, I'll give you all my money now.

          Different kinds of debt. but hey, if you don't believe me, ask Suze ;)
          • she doesn't go to school every semester. Her loan is required to be paid on when she isn't in school. So, even when she is in school, she pays on it. Never a good idea to not pay something just because the rates are low.

            We are eliminating ALL the debt we have. We both understand that paying them off isn't the most important thing in life, (the credit cards get payed off first) but our goal is to not have any debt. The house=VA Loan. School for me=GI Bill plus total company reimbursement. So, we are set other than the student loans and credit cards.

            Our total debt (together) right now is about $7,500. Shouldn't be much longer til no debt.
            • Never a good idea to not pay something just because the rates are low. Unless you can do something better with that money. And I don't mean "Buy a sports car" I mean "investment vehicle that will return more than your loan interest sucks out".

              I have the same situation with loan defferment but I guess I'm a lazy bastard (I don't pay when I'm taking two classes a semseter).

              If your goal is to eliminate all debt, then power to ya. However if'n you buy a house... guess what? Yr in debt.

              But a mortgage is not a BAD debt- its a fixed cost for a fixed period of years, the debt doesn't really grow anymore (it grows a little, like you get a loan for $130,000 and end up paying back like $180,000, maybe more, I haven't looked at any tables recently), you pay no tax on the interest portion of the payment (which in the beginning is almost your entire payment!)and you generate equity.

              And if you plan on staying in that house for more than 10 years, it may make sense to pay additionally per month to pay down the pricinpal. However if you get a 'starter home' (like me and my wife) it doesn't do enough for you to be cost effective. Sure you have a 'bit' more equity in your house but, so what? your mortgage will be assumed by someone else (in a way) and it does you MORE to put more money towards buying your next house, and have a lower mortgage with that.

              Well anyways- it always makes me happy to hear that someone has a handle on their finances and will soon have the credit card monsters off their back.

              Next stop, financial planning for the future....!
              (that'd be nice- a sci-fi vignette about 401(k)s and IRA roths!)
    • You know, it's funny but I've somehow always believed that you were a chick, with such a nickname :) It seems I was wrong....

      I'm pleased to read your comments about me pleasing my SO. I just think it's natural, and I am convinced that most guys do too. They are probably too proud to admit it :->

      Good luck with your loans; mostly it should pay off, if the money was invested in education. A friend of mine has a daughter who is in Med school and who wants to be a neurosurgeon. Woow. He pays for some of her tuition fees at the moment, and expects her to buy him a Ferrari 20 years down the road (when she will make more money per month than him in a quarter :)

  • I figured you were busy enjoying married life. Woo! A point for me!

    I think this is very true, for having spent hours cooking and caring for my wife during special occasions (birthdays, etc.) and sometimes for no special reason at all.

    Perhaps you should go around the country giving seminars to all of those who haven't figured this out yet (and there are many!). :)
  • I was in a very similar boat as you are with the 'kid' debate.

    I had been dating my wife 5 years when we got married. We both had jobs, and financial stability (and we were both done with school).

    Having children is a GIANT change in lifestyle. No one understands that change until they've been through it.
    Anyway, this is what we did. Seeing as we were established (which is pretty much a 'must'. You have to support a child, so make sure you are successfully supporting yourself first!), we decided to let God decide. We wouldn't be 'trying' (read: We weren't sitting their waiting for her to ovulate and got busy then and there), we just didn't try to prevent it.
    We ended up getting pregnant after we were married for only a few months.

    Don't get me wrong, having a child has been the best thing that ever happened to me. If I would give out advice now that I know what its like, I wish we woulda had more of a financial 'cushion' in our savings account. Kids are expensive. Really expensive. Childbirth is expensive. Remember, the first day or so, you only have to pay the deductible (and 10% afterward) for your wife. But after that first day, you are now talking about having TWO people in the hospital (congratulations! Its a... new deductible!).

    All horror stories aside. I wouldn't have it any other way. Make sure you take childbirth classes, and expect the worst as far as change in lifestyle. I've seen SO many parents that have no idea what is going to happen, only to have reality smack them in the face (and pee on them, and keep them up all hours of the night, etc...).

    Best of luck, and if you have any questions I'm always available to respond to JE's, and email (and I'm sure gmhowell will put in his $0.02, too).
  • But let me play devil's advocate a bit: don't you think this is just post-martial-bliss? As someone who officially does not believe in love anymore, I just see this as the last contractions of what people call "love". I my honest opinion, this will die down slowly, when routine settles in.
    I have seen so many couples who broke up after two years (even with kids, really!), who where as happy as you two in the start. Yes, and this were not just "marriages in a whim", but couples that have known each other for years. It's sad, yes, but it is more common than you think.

    I truly hope that this will not happen to you, but as I said, I don't believe in love anymore. It's a fiction generated by a biological feeling to procreate. Don't just take this from me: I have heard from many guys at work that having children doesn't really improve the situation. They say that "life changes so much", but none of them wanted to tell me if it was in a positive or a negative way.

    • We're one of these many-years couple who eventually decided to get married.. We've been living together under the same roof for a couple of years, before getting engaged for life. Now that we are, and that the bliss of the marriage is passed out (almost so), we're indeed back into routine.

      Like FortKnox said, a child will probably change our lives forever, if we're lucky enough to have one (and of course more later). I'm aware that it won't be easy, but that's how we see our future as a couple ! We're working on this :)

      • I know you were together for a long time before, that is the reason why I included it in my post. I do remember what people write, unless I read journals drunk... Yeah, okay, that happens quite often.
        Oh and getting children isn't that hard, well that's what I was told. I just know the theory of course :-P
    • i hope for your well-being you believe in love again. i'm sorry if you think it self-righteous of me, but i think you would be happier if you could one day experience that sensation (again?).

      what is your explanation for friendship and non-romantic love? i do not wish to procreate with my parents, my siblings, my friends, or my cats, but i love all of them. and as far as couples go, i have known couples like you mention, but the counter-example is also prevalent. i know several older couples who still get excited just to be around each other. i haven't known children to change how couples feel about each other, but i have seen children bring latent feelings to the surface.

      but remember my .sig.
      • No, really... It is a choice in life everyone has to make sooner or later. I chose to make it sooner. If you really want to understand why I do not believe in love anymore then read my journals. It is well documented there.

        I explain the "love" you mention as an expression of common interest, as a mutual help between individuals. There is a reason we bond, it makes the burdens of life easier. I love my parents because the help me and I will do anything in my possibilities to help them. Well, in this particular case, I try to get them proud of me so that they get the feeling that they accomplished something in life. That and I maintain their computers, setup a mailserver, webserver all for their convenience.
        Romantic love is just a big no-no, it does not work and only has reasons in procreation. That's why it seldom lasts more than a few years. Enough to raise the offspring. That has been scientifically proven.
        My parents are still together, so they might apply as "a successfull marriage", however I don't think they love each other anymore, perhaps they never did. Often this marriage looks more than a marriage of reason than anything else. Perhaps sympathy and the fact that splitting up and being alone would be more sad than staying together and be lonely together.

        I will remember your sig, but I do not think you are an idiot. You are entitled to your opinion like everyone else, and I respect that.

        • i'll check out your journals. but i'll still think that love exists.

          That has been scientifically proven.

          what do you mean, "your science?"

          i would like to see how it is possible to prove scientifically that the only purpose of romantic love is procreation. possibly can be proven philosophically because philosophy always starts with assumptions or axioms that need not be proven. science does, too, but in science those assumptions can usually be challenged or proven at a later date.
          • My science? There is no such thing as "my science". I am a scientist indeed, and have been educated as such. Hoever I did not invent this stuff:
            This book [angelfire.com] (well the link is just one chapter), actually has a Sociologist exactly explaining what I did. I'd have preferred to find some kind of chemistry PhD to (aka. hard science) instead of a sociologist, but hey... My googling skills are probably not that good.
            It's all chemistry... Besides, I have read about these theories (in science everything is always a theory unless proven wrong) in a lot of scientic publications. It is free to everyone to think their own of every theory, after all some people still believe that the earth is flat, isn't it?
            • from the song "the pink life." it's been in my head for a few days now. nothing more was meant by that.

              still, i believe that proving that love feelings cause the brain to tell the body to release chemicals does not prove that love is caused by those chemicals. i find it easier to believe that an imbalance of chemicals can make your life difficult, as the link describes. it is not a chemical that tells the brain to release these drug-like hormones. something has to cause it. there is no proof that a 'true' love feeling is not what motivates the brain.

              but that is what it means to me, not what it means to everyone. probably not to you. that's ok. there wouldn't be any point in discussing anything if a new perspective were never presented. everyone has opinions.
              • Now it all runs down to a causal effect. Is it "love" who causes those chemicals to to released or inversely. I believe that it's the chemicals that cause it. Or better said, our senses report something to the brain that indicates a certain situation that makes the chemicals to be released.

                Compare it to adrenalin: your senses (vision, audition,...) report a danger to the brain. The brain itself signals to the kidneys to produce adrenalin in order to give th body the extra punch it needs for attack and/or fleeing. The kidneys then start releasing adrenalin in enourmous quantities, and in a fraction of a second your body is ready.

                Now, you might think "what has this to do with love"? Well, consider it this way: your senses report to your brain that there is a good possible mate. The "love chemical" is produced at that point and that is what makes you feel "to be in love". Just use your logic and you have to admit it is a very plausible theory. This is also a possible explanation why many couples break up after getting children. Your biologic task has been done, and thus producing the chemical is a wastefull process.

                I know this is completely in contrast with the Western Philosophy that love is something uncatchable, undescribable, but we were educated to think this.
                Don't forget that once upon a time people thought that light had an infinite speed. There was this weird man who dissed this conviction, and turned everything upside down. He turned out to be right.

                I'm sorry I didn't catch the music reference, I'm a complete dolt at music. Oh, and by the way...the fortune on this page is quite on topic: "To our sweethearts and wives. May they never meet. -- 19th century toast"

                • I believe that it's the chemicals

                  that's cool. i see it differently

                  Compare it to adrenalin

                  your theory is valid, but not indisputably true. i see it as a person sees/feels/experiences through their senses something that makes them feel an emotion that is like fear. this emotion causes an involuntary action by the brain to release adrenalin. but if two people see the same thing and it only scares one of them, only that person will get the adrenalin pumping.

                  Just use your logic and you have to admit it is a very plausible theory.

                  somewhat plausible, but until they can get more evidence it seems more like a 'chicken or the egg' kind of question. i believe there is an interpretation layer between recieving information through the senses and sending signals to make chemicals that you do not believe in. that's fine.

                  i think there is a separation of love feelings and feelings that cause procreation. if you haven't experienced both, it is difficult to explain. but because i see them as separate, it is easier for me to believe that the love feeling causes the desire to get down. and that's how the feelings have developed in my relationships. i also find that after i get to know people they become better or worse looking depending on my opinion of them. you could explain this with either your theory or mine, and there is a pretty good chance we'll both continue thinking we're seeing it the right way.

                  i think people frequently separate after kids because they find it didn't change anything. if there was not a good love basis to the relationship or other strains, the extra burden of children brings all other troubles to the surface and amplifies them.

                  i don't think you are bad or stupid for seeing things the way you do. if you are content, that's great. i require different proof than you do for your theories. it is plain to you. what i believe is obvious to me. so at least we know we don't make each other redundant.
                  • And again the fortune at on this comment is on topic: "In real love you want the other person's good. In romantic love you want the other person. -- Margaret Anderson"
                    Oh, well... Guess, we won't come to a consensus. I can be quite stubborn at times. I'm going to stop argue, because forged's journal is getting polluted by our argument, and I don't think he will appreciate that, after all his married bliss is all what matters to him right now. And in that context you are probably a more cheerful fellow than me to hang around discussing love.
                    My mind is made up... Be it chemicals, or just feelings or whatever "godly intervenience", I don't care anymore. I'll just quietely retire with my eitgh computers and don't worry anymore. Let life go on, let love be... It has nothing to do with *me*, and *that*, my friend, is a *fact*.
          • . If you really want to understand why I do not believe in love anymore then read my journals. It is well documented there.

          .
          .
          .

          • Romantic love is just a big no-no, it does not work and only has reasons in procreation. That's why it seldom lasts more than a few years. Enough to raise the offspring. That has been scientifically proven.


          First off, a few years is a minimum of 12-15. Longer if more kids are had. By the time all the children have grown up and left home couples tend to have grown wise enough to be able to see the true beauty in the world, and those, around them.

          Short termed temporary love is for those who are impatient and foolish. Bleh.

          Second;

          from your journal;


          • Oh, yes, she was delighted with the present but of course love was not mutual.


          uh, duuuuuh. What had you done for Her? 19 roses, nice, hardly a fall in love tactic.

          First, take some reading classes. Get control over your voice, learn to invoke emotions in your listeners. For best effect you should be able to do this onto anybody, it makes the effect all that much stronger when what is being said is real rather then acted out.

          Second;

          being a depressive shell boy is a big no no

          Ok granted I am not one to talk about that, but at least I choose to be a depressive shell boy, I have my choices. :) (well more or less, you human people are scary! Bleeeh! :-o )

          Act sweet, kind, nice. Don't be like you are going out of your way to do things, just do them.

          (I actually am a mean son of a bitch and tested out various techniques on people before leaving HS. Yah I am mean enough to use human test subjects. I'm sure I'll get bitched at for that one. ^_^ )

          Do what ever German culture says you should be doing. I have no bleeming idea, (though if I had to make an educated guess I would go by the German proximity to having been one of the high European culture in the late 18 century and would guess that they have a lot of similar formalities and such. )

          Granted here in America it is rather simple to be overly polite, it stems from being around what tends to be a rather rude culture as a whole.

          In fact just a few days ago I heard a guy complaining to his SO

          "Well if you got any damn books to go pick up go pick them up, don't fucking bitch to me cuz I ain't got time to follow you all over the place"

          Now of course the proper action would have been to just walk along beside Her carrying along conversation and then non-chalantly pick up and carry Her books when She went to get them from where ever.

          (On a personal note, it took Rosia around three months to figure out that She had not had to open a door for quite some time. ^_^ :) )
          • And perhaps you are right. But you rip those quotes out of context. I was not prepared to meet her again, and I fell in love with her over a year ago. Knowing one has no chance, the brain kicks back in and then you realise how pointless all of this is. I may indeed be not good with the ladies, as you sadly prove in your post, but it just enhances my standpoint. In nature animals that are not fit to procreate (like me), just will be selected out of the circle of life. No training whatsoever will change this. Worse, training in order to fake love is the worst thing you can do. You are playing a role, betraying your true self.

            I can't help being a "shell boy" as you state. Society has made me that way and there is no way out. Since you seem to be one yourself, you should understand that more than anyone else. Besides, I perhaps chose to be one myself, that doesn't mean I can't complain about my failures anymore ;-)

            Then you say that "being together" should be at least 10-15 years. You know that this restricts relationships to a meeting in highschool. If you screw up that one chance, you lose for the rest of your life. (I never ever had a girlfriend, so I screwed up, right?) In my case time is running out. Look at it, I'm 25. Even if tomorrow I meet a girl and fall in love (even a 20 year old girl), and have to wait 10 years, I will be 35 and she 30. Biologically this is not a good thing because males are at the prime reproductive age in their early twenties. For females this is around their 25th birthday. After that it goes downhill very very fast. Count in your biological clock, and you know I am at the losing side. One unmarried guy at work (my boss actually) told me: find a girlfriend before 30 because after that your chances are near to nil. He is nearly 40, he knows what he is talking about...and he is a handsome outgoing guy, unlike me. Time is running out for me, that makes me more desperate and that is why I have to accept that I'm a biological failure.

            And yes, I read Em Emalb [slashdot.org]'s journal. He still is not in my friends list because I just cannot take grip on this comments/journal entries. I still read them, so perhaps someday he will make it to my friends list.

              • I can't help being a "shell boy" as you state. Society has made me that way and there is no way out. Since you seem to be one yourself, you should understand that more than anyone else.


              I am here because society en masse bores me. I find that overall it is simplistic and fed upon base desires and needs that have illogical roots and often times serve against its own pain purpose.

              In other words, people irritate me. Too irrational, too easy to guess what they are going to do next. The later stems from the former. And no, it is not self contradicting.

              • Then you say that "being together" should be at least 10-15 years. You know that this restricts relationships to a meeting in highschool. If you screw up that one chance, you lose for the rest of your life. (I never ever had a girlfriend, so I screwed up, right?)


              You kidding? I heavily frown upon high school relationships, they have no place to go. Pointless.

              Is your society similar to the Japanese society where in if a person has not "met somebody" by age 24 or so they are considered an old bag / man, as the case may be?

              The median age for marriage in America is a bit higher I do believe, at least among the middle class. The lower class still unfortunately marries at a young age, but ah, those who do not and work towards an education have a greater chance of ending up middle class, so the problem is at least slightly self correcting. Kind of.

              • ?) In my case time is running out.


              Only because you rush things. :)

              • and have to wait 10 years, I


              Huh? What is the standard courting time over there?

              I guess I have been desensitized by drive through wedding chaples. ^_^

              • , I will be 35 and she 30. Biologically this is not a good thing because males are at the prime reproductive age in their early twenties. For females this is around their 25th birthday.


              *shrugs* Strange stuff. Newspaper reports happen over here of "an increase in child birth by parents over the age of 50" and things like that. Whatever. ^_^

              • Time is running out for me, that makes me more desperate and that is why I have to accept that I'm a biological failure.


              LOL! No, you have a minor bit of a psychosis, not the same thing. :-D

              One advantage of living in America is that with all the different cultures around here, it is not to hard for a person to find culture that matches up pretty closely with their own mind set. Likely why the few friends I have are either Asian or Jewish, strong dedication towards learning and education, strong tendency against frivolous and wasteful activities. ^_^ (outside of some traditional cultural events of course, a person has got to do stuff some time, hehe)

              • I may indeed be not good with the ladies, as you sadly prove in your post, but it just enhances my standpoint. In nature animals that are not fit to procreate (like me), just will be selected out of the circle of life. No training whatsoever will change this


              • I may indeed be not good with the ladies, as you sadly prove in your post, but it just enhances my standpoint. In nature animals that are not fit to procreate (like me), just will be selected out of the circle of life. No training whatsoever will change this


              It is not training, it is learning to control what you already have.

              Ok, put it this way. Some people are natural fighters, they can get up and just start whoopin ass. Little if any training necessary. Dangerous mofos, some of them are able to compete even at a professional level.

              Then there is the other 99.99% of society. If they want to learn to fight, they go take classes. If they want to learn to fight really well, they dedicate a goodly part of their life towards that goal.

              Nobody calls them a wuss ass for doing such, and nobody says that they are "just faking it" because they got training.

              Well, some people can control their voice naturally. They are natural charmers, able to work their thoughts into any bodies mind. Nifty trick if you are born with it.

              Then there are people who have just a regular set of verbal skills. They will stumble a bit but overall they will eventually get through.

              And then some people just, well, suck.

              You my friend belong in that last category.

              Here is what you do;

              Go to whatever the local equivalent of a university or college is, and find out if they offer improv classes open to the public. (improvisation) If they do not, move on to some other place, find a good place that does. Good beginning or introductory improv classes around here in the States cost around $600 for five or six weeks of courses, twice a week I do believe, but that was from some veerry nice institute offering up classes at the University of Washington. (I had a scholarship. :-D :-D :-D )

              Read around a bit, make sure you are not getting taken by the place. Make sure that they are legitimate. Then go and sign up. Attend all the classes, do not skip for ANY reason. When they ask you do to funky stuff, do it. I don't care if you have to stand in a pyramid reciting poetry, it sounds kooky, but shit like that comes in handy. Don't ask me how, it just does.

              Mainly I think it is being able to come up with at least something to say no matter what is going on. It is learning to form coherent sentences, and dare I say it, even organize your thoughts, under almost any circumstance. Another part of it is also learning some control of your voice, how to make it rise and lower and change in speed and tone depending on how you want to communicate what you are saying.

              That last bit may or may not be part of the course depending on exactly what is covered, but it is worth taking a course on vocal control just for that skill right there. Being able to scare somebody off with merely a few sharp tones is a very powerful tool to have, as is being able to comfort a crying child with soft soothing words.

              Pay the money, take the courses, and stop complaining that you weren't born with the skills. Hell I started out with just a hint of voice projection and a speech impediment and I have been able to come this far. ^_^

              Oh yes, and one final bit of psychiatrical analysis;

              Your problem is that you are rushing into things because you feel like you are pressured to accomplish them. Stop giving a royal flying rats arse about your "biological fitness" (if I wasn't such a *cough*PolCor*cough* person I would comment further on that. . . .) and just let things flow. If you are sitting there thinking about yourself, don't expect the others around you to also give a damn about you.

              In other words, wrong motivations.
              • Okay, I'm not going on with this discussion. I only have one remark: why are you insisting on that "control over voice" thing?
                You do not even know how I talk. I'm not a shy muttering guy that cannot say a word in front of a lady. Actually I'm a very verbose guy, and I love to talk. I can talk about nearly anything and have an opinion on about every topic. I avoided to talk about that when you first replied, but honestly...don't you just think that you project your *own* problem on my situation. I'm a good talker, have a nice voice and have no problem whatsoever talking. This is one of the reasons ladies like to have me as a friend. Just a friend of course.

                I also want to mention that you started about the 10 year delay. I just extrapolated it on a normal life situation.

                And if I "suck" (which I do not think I do), why the heck did you add me to your friend list? That escapes me completely.

                  • Okay, I'm not going on with this discussion. I only have one remark: why are you insisting on that "control over voice" thing?


                  Sorry, was assuming the common problem of computer nerds/geeks being unable to have complex vocal / social skills. You are the one who said you are a shell boy, a term which normaly implies some lack of communications skills. (thus the entire, err, shell thing)

                  • I also want to mention that you started about the 10 year delay. I just extrapolated it on a normal life situation.


                  ?

                    • Shell boy was perhaps not the best term to choose. I just reused your words. I more charcterise as a "Lone Wolf" (or "Lone Shark" in my case) This means, I can talk a lot, but most of the time I am on myself.
                    • The 10 year delay before marriage and kids. Which I then extrapolated on my own situation, and having the conclusion of not marrying before 35...etc...etc...
                      You also have to think of the kids, I mean if your first kid is when you are 40 (for example), by the time that they are in college you'll be about 60. Then they have a granddaddy as daddy. Oh, well, my vision on this is probably just a bit out of scope.
                    Oh, and I'm going to the movies with The Flower Girl tonight.
                      • The 10 year delay before marriage and kids. Which I then extrapolated on my own situation, and having the conclusion of not marrying before 35...etc...etc...


                      I still do not remember ever mentioning ten years. :-D That is one heck of an enloping time! ^_^
                    • In this post [slashdot.org] you say: "First off, a few years is a minimum of 12-15. Longer if more kids are had."

                      I wonder WTF I am doing online at 5:35am online! I'm insane! I'm going to bed.... *sigh*

                    • Err, by that I meant that if what you said is true and that people only 'love' each other just so long as kids need taking care of, then just ome child should suffuce for 12-15 years of 'love'.
                    • Ah, okay... Little misunderstanding. Usually the "love" after having children lasts until they can walk. That's where I got my 2 years from (I don't have kids...I don't know when exactly they start to walk).
                      • Ah, okay... Little misunderstanding. Usually the "love" after having children lasts until they can walk.


                      Well that depends on if the couple are both hopeless romantics or not. :-D

                      I am the type of person who can stare at a flower blossom and sit and ponder the beauty of nature until somebody comes and asks me WTF am I doing. ^_^
                    • Well, I understand you... Because deep within I'm a hopeless romantic too. For me however it is more sunsets that do it, or now the in the fall the trees that become all sorts of colours.
                      And now you made it to my friends list, because first I though there was no way to have a reasonable discussion with you. I was wrong.
  • I'd have to say it's pretty damn dope.

    And yes, its the second 1 year anniversary, since we were married twice... (So actually it's like a year and 10 months, but who's counting?)

    And yes- the most important thing is taking time out to do special and nurturing things for each other. It is another side of the romance. You have your functional relationship, you have your sexual relationship, and sometimes the chasm between the two can get pretty jarring; "Let see, I have all this overtime next weekend and I'm caught up in my evening classes, the dishes are done, the laundry is done, the floors are mopped... Honey, i've got an hour free now! Quick, lets hop into bed!"

    I feel its these "inbetween times" that are to most vital for a relationship.

    And we have given kids the big "NO"- We're just beginning our lives and I don't want to lose that freedom.
    • "Honey, i've got an hour free now! Quick, lets hop into bed!"

      Heh, that happens to us on a regular basis already, even though there are no children in the equation yet. She's a nurse and works really strange shifts: 7-13 or 13-21, in alternance, plus every other week-end. I'm lucky to have regular business hours, but we don't get to see each other a lot. Either she's really tired in the evening when she wakes up at 6, or it's almost 22:00 when she gets home and we can't do much that night. So we kind of find each other whenever we can or feel like it, even if it isn't always in bed at night ;)

      Funny to see your reaction with kids (big NO for the moment). Moving every few years didn't seem to affect my parents, who had 4 lovely children and who folloed whererer the family went. They did things as a group rather than as a pair. I give up thet it is heavier planning and is also more restraining, but if you really mean to, you can do a lot with your whole familly following you. We intend to try that route anyway, we'll see how things work out with kids :)

      I was told once that the real freedom isn't to do what you want, it's to want what you do.........

      • "Honey, i've got an hour free now! Quick, lets hop into bed!"
        Heh, that happens to us on a regular basis already,



        The problem is when it DOESN'T happen on a regular basis! ;)

        I think in terms of kids- if you want them you can manage it, somehow. Necessity is the mother of invention. I just don't think we want them right now. Its kind of how I imagined married life when I was 20; I couldn't conceive of it- it didn't compute and it made no sense.

        Well, it made sense but only in a purely logical analysis- I couldn't wrap my head around it and grok it, if you will suffer a heinlein allusion. And then one day I could.

        So I assume the urge for procreation will follow similarly.
  • Those who want to have children face a problem: Statistics show that when one of the parents don't work in order to grow the kid, the result is a more intelligent kid.

    So the parents are faced with a dillema: Let one of the parents quit their job? It's not modern, and also chauvinistic if the mother does that. Or continue working and leave the children in some school? Or hire a permanent babysitter who might abuse the kid?

    Alvin Toffler predicted in his book The Future Shock that we'll be able to postpone pregnancy to retirement age, and this way it'll be much easier to grow the kids. I'm still waiting for that to happen.
    • If I can work alone and bring enough money to sustain our family, I will and my wife will quit her full-time activity. She wants to continue working, but part time. Then if we can mave more than one (we really want 5 -- I'll explain another day ;) she will give up working alltogether. We both want it that way. Income will decide; we don't want to be unreasonable either.

      Funny, in a sense we're very old fashioned !

  • glad to know you are happy and doing well.

    i am not yet married. we delayed the wedding a year to give us a chance to get our finances (at least a little) more in line and to allow my fiancee to finish grad school. things are working out pretty well for us. we will have been together for over seven years when we tie the knot next august. it seems so far off sometimes, but i know it will be here before i know it.
    • A year into preparing your wedding will seem to be very short indeed. We've been at ours for almost 1.5 years and time just seemed to fly. So much preparation......... (we gathered about 350 at church and 200 came at the dinner).

      I wish you all the best of luck ahead; you'll need all the help you can get, but it is really worth it in the end :)

  • ...it's nice to read your jounal entries... makes me think about my life, my girlfriend, and all that sits in between. For example, giving up IRC.
    Once I wanted to write something like a book about IRC, and call it "Souls in a Web" like we were all stuck in a web that paralized us and forbid us to move and look around... I even wrote an index, if you are interested in that I can send it to you (maybe you'll become a great writer :) )

    You're not the first one that gave up IRC after having found the love of your life... so maybe the fact that I gave up IRC, too, when I first met my girl could be a sign :)

    About other things.. I'd LOVE to try skydiving and bungee jumping. Definitively. Never had a chance, tough. But I want to.

    Want to read a "fun" book about women and men? "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus". It's amazing. And it's incredibly funny when you realize how silly you are, or how easy it was to understand "why" and so on. Don't take it too seriously.. but it's good. [apologies if you have alread read it]. I'm doing it with my girl, we read chapters each other whenever we can.. it's nice to listen to the person you love reading.

    Ok enough for tonight... good night and say 'hi' to your wife :)

    cheers
    • Hi Kipple, I'm a poor writer and only very occasionnally do I log a journal entry; but I couldn't resist this time !

      Try skydiving at some point, better yet do it with your partner. Mine was absolutely thrilled, and I even had to delay the jump 2 weeks because of conflicting schedules (I would have had to jump on my own otherwise, she'd jump at a latter date, however we really wanted to do our first jump together which is why we waited).

      IRC and other on-line activities don't have to stop just because you find the love of your life. I would say that for a moment, you are overwhelmed with love, but some time later things begin to fall into position again and you will (and should) find a new balance between everything. The amount of my life online has certainely diminished a lot since marriage, but I'm afraid that I'll be online for the rest of my days :)

      Anyway, all this nonsense was to simply wich you to be happy too, to care for your sweetheart and to be successful together. We all need love :)

  • I've been married for over eight years and have a lovely 3.5 year daughter... I would not trade it for anything in the world. However...

    Wait on kids.

    Give yourselves a chance to enjoy each other's company. Marriage is one thing, married with children a whole new game. Focus shifts from each other to the children. Not that it is a bad thing, but we had a chance to travel the world, get settled, and have a solid 2 on 1 parental tag team in rearing our kid.

    Unless you know you have fertility issues, don't sweat it. If you do, it is going to take a fair pile of cash to deal with it anyhow. Wait years, not months...

    As a side note, one of my co-workers had a packed chute in his office. The director saw it and asked if he was backpacking. We explained it was a parachute, not a backpack and he skydives. He replied, "Make sure he checks in his code..."
  • First, as I'm sure you've noticed, it's quite difficult to have a general discussion about marriage. Each is different. To be totally for or against it speaks more of the indivdual speaking than the institution.

    A kid didn't change my life nearly as much as what FK reports. OTOH, my wife and I weren't going out drinking and dancing every night anyway. Most of the stuff we did could be done as a family.

    And we had no difficulty conceiving. She stopped taking the pill on August 28, and was pregnant by September 25th. It's not supposed to work that way (and it can be a little dangerous) but it did. IMHO, the best thing to do is say "Okay, we're ready" and then drop all of the birth control. If you're not expecting within 6-9 months, then it's time to 'try'.

    And if your swimmers are a little deficient... Your wife is kinda cute;)

    Enjoy it, and let it happen when you are ready.

    • And if your swimmers are a little deficient... Your wife is kinda cute;)

      Heh, you're outrageous ;)))))

      Seriously though, we won't sweat it. It's just a little weird to be in this waiting-mode....

      • Heh, you're outrageous ;)))))

        It's what I'd say if we were f2f. And it's so dull to just remark that she's attractive.

        It also helps me judge a person. If you had a shitty response, I would know to ignore you from here on out. If you took it in jest... Game on.

If you hype something and it succeeds, you're a genius -- it wasn't a hype. If you hype it and it fails, then it was just a hype. -- Neil Bogart

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