Journal FortKnox's Journal: The Joy of Consulting... and my new dilemma 31
I apologize for the writing style and such, but thist is just a brain dump...
Every job I've had since college has been consulting.
Its a nice deal. I usually work with the latest technologies (have two years of struts under my belt already, etc...), and enjoy the work. Because companies hire away contractors (the 'right to hire' clause in contracts are pretty standard, now), the consulting companies have to make for a fantastic environment so that they keep their employees.
It has its advantages that if you are on an assignment that is particularly bad, no fears because you can inform your consulting firm not to renew your contract (or backfill it with someone else), so you only have to work through the contract and you are out.
There are disadvantages of being removed from projects you enjoyed because your contract is up and they no longer need you. I make friends in every place, which seems like an advantage because I have contacts in all the major businesses around Cincinnati, but its not like coworker friends, as I never really get to know them because I'm usually out of a project after so many months.
Well, yesterday my current client asked me if I'd entertain an offer. He thought I'd immediately say no, because I do work for a fantastic company, but its really silly to not at least hear what they are willing to offer[1]!
Now comes my delimma... most clients I work for have pretty terrible IT departments (the worst I've been in happen to be banking and financial institutions... scary, isn't it?[2]). This client, though, is a grocery chain (a top 5, and its not Walmart). Their IT department is very well structured and very well managed. I can't say its been the best assignment, but my boss is really quite a fantastic boss, and I really get along with the people I know...
However, in my current (consulting) company, two of the main managers (they'd be directors if my company was large enough) have really taken notice of me and are fast tracking me into a pretty high and powerful position. A position that was vacated this past Monday. I am really young in the company, though, and the position is for a technology that's really important to the president and such, and I don't know if they are willing to put me into such a position...
So, Monday I hear the clients proposal. Of course, I was thinking that I could use this to my advantage and pit the companies against one another so I end up the winner......
But I was talking to my father about it (HR bigwig for a very large fortune 500). Pitting companies against one another does nothing but ruin your reputation for doing it. Basically, when I get an offer, he says the best thing is to ask my client for 48 hours to make a decision, and tell my (consulting) company that I've gotten an offer that I am considering and will make a decision in 48 hours and thats it. If my (consulting) company really thinks I'm valuable, they will sit me down and try and throw money and such at me to keep me. But, what really got me, was when my father said "If your company gives you more money cause you are valuable, why are they giving it to you now that you are threatening to leave?"
If you remember the whole Chicago trip and my "being important to my (consulting) company" JE's, you'd know I'm trying to get myself into a large position. This position is basically the technical leader of a new technology that will be VERY large and is very important to the company. The person in that position was trained in the tech by me (I learned it in the Chicago trip). The only people that know it (including him) have recently been hired away to other companies. That leaves me as the sole person that knows it... besides that I was the one that knew it the best... So many think I'm in position to get it.
My hopes are I get a good offer from my client, take it back to my consulting firm and they offer me similar salary and the new position... I'm just afraid that won't happen....
I guess I'm sick of being the 'young kid' in the company. I don't want it to bite me in the ass. I've been with the company for a long time compared to most of the others, but when they hire people in the company, its usually into a very senior position, so I never grow higher in position. That, along with the fact that most java developers just want to program, when I want to get into a management position, so they don't even really talk about moving into managment positions to java guys...
I think I may be looking a gift horse in the mouth. If I took the client position, I can make it clear that I want to move up, and I believe it wouldn't be difficult, because a lot of the guys that have moved up did it kicking and screaming because they just want to program. But if I get the position I want with my current company, I'd end up at a very high mangement position, quickly...
[1] I have actually said no to even hearing an offer from the very first client I had at my current consulting firm. The reason was I had a very bad experience and an absolutely terrible boss, and you couldn't pay me enough to continue working for her... but thats another JE...
[2] For as much rigid organization that is in most bankings financial departments, most bankings IT departments are complete and utter chaos. The only way I'd join in that madness is as a 'bigwig' in charge of changing it around...
Every job I've had since college has been consulting.
Its a nice deal. I usually work with the latest technologies (have two years of struts under my belt already, etc...), and enjoy the work. Because companies hire away contractors (the 'right to hire' clause in contracts are pretty standard, now), the consulting companies have to make for a fantastic environment so that they keep their employees.
It has its advantages that if you are on an assignment that is particularly bad, no fears because you can inform your consulting firm not to renew your contract (or backfill it with someone else), so you only have to work through the contract and you are out.
There are disadvantages of being removed from projects you enjoyed because your contract is up and they no longer need you. I make friends in every place, which seems like an advantage because I have contacts in all the major businesses around Cincinnati, but its not like coworker friends, as I never really get to know them because I'm usually out of a project after so many months.
Well, yesterday my current client asked me if I'd entertain an offer. He thought I'd immediately say no, because I do work for a fantastic company, but its really silly to not at least hear what they are willing to offer[1]!
Now comes my delimma... most clients I work for have pretty terrible IT departments (the worst I've been in happen to be banking and financial institutions... scary, isn't it?[2]). This client, though, is a grocery chain (a top 5, and its not Walmart). Their IT department is very well structured and very well managed. I can't say its been the best assignment, but my boss is really quite a fantastic boss, and I really get along with the people I know...
However, in my current (consulting) company, two of the main managers (they'd be directors if my company was large enough) have really taken notice of me and are fast tracking me into a pretty high and powerful position. A position that was vacated this past Monday. I am really young in the company, though, and the position is for a technology that's really important to the president and such, and I don't know if they are willing to put me into such a position...
So, Monday I hear the clients proposal. Of course, I was thinking that I could use this to my advantage and pit the companies against one another so I end up the winner......
But I was talking to my father about it (HR bigwig for a very large fortune 500). Pitting companies against one another does nothing but ruin your reputation for doing it. Basically, when I get an offer, he says the best thing is to ask my client for 48 hours to make a decision, and tell my (consulting) company that I've gotten an offer that I am considering and will make a decision in 48 hours and thats it. If my (consulting) company really thinks I'm valuable, they will sit me down and try and throw money and such at me to keep me. But, what really got me, was when my father said "If your company gives you more money cause you are valuable, why are they giving it to you now that you are threatening to leave?"
If you remember the whole Chicago trip and my "being important to my (consulting) company" JE's, you'd know I'm trying to get myself into a large position. This position is basically the technical leader of a new technology that will be VERY large and is very important to the company. The person in that position was trained in the tech by me (I learned it in the Chicago trip). The only people that know it (including him) have recently been hired away to other companies. That leaves me as the sole person that knows it... besides that I was the one that knew it the best... So many think I'm in position to get it.
My hopes are I get a good offer from my client, take it back to my consulting firm and they offer me similar salary and the new position... I'm just afraid that won't happen....
I guess I'm sick of being the 'young kid' in the company. I don't want it to bite me in the ass. I've been with the company for a long time compared to most of the others, but when they hire people in the company, its usually into a very senior position, so I never grow higher in position. That, along with the fact that most java developers just want to program, when I want to get into a management position, so they don't even really talk about moving into managment positions to java guys...
I think I may be looking a gift horse in the mouth. If I took the client position, I can make it clear that I want to move up, and I believe it wouldn't be difficult, because a lot of the guys that have moved up did it kicking and screaming because they just want to program. But if I get the position I want with my current company, I'd end up at a very high mangement position, quickly...
[1] I have actually said no to even hearing an offer from the very first client I had at my current consulting firm. The reason was I had a very bad experience and an absolutely terrible boss, and you couldn't pay me enough to continue working for her... but thats another JE...
[2] For as much rigid organization that is in most bankings financial departments, most bankings IT departments are complete and utter chaos. The only way I'd join in that madness is as a 'bigwig' in charge of changing it around...
If the offer is good, take it. (Score:2)
Movin' on up (Score:1)
Think about it. Its really quite a shame that I very much so enjoy my current employment; I'm sure I could work up a much higher salary by lateralling.
However if we move in 2 years I won't hesitate to shop around.
So nevermind forcing your current employers hand. Infact, you'll be making their job easier because instead of having 5 candidates in the running including you, they'll now only have 4!!! Is the offer from Kroger a good deal or not?
Your compa
Re:Movin' on up (Score:2)
What sleuthing did you enploy to come to the conclusion that my client is Krogers??
Re:Movin' on up (Score:2)
Re:Movin' on up (Score:2)
Re:Movin' on up (Score:2)
Mostly i'm just wondering if i've ran into you, since i've contracted at a few of the local banks...
Re:Movin' on up (Score:2)
'Cincinnati' and 'large grocery chain' it was prettty easy to put 2+2 together.
I don't know about working for a grocery chain nowadays. Isn't the large W-headed beast causing trouble for the large grocery-only compnaies? I was under the impression that that business operates under pretty thing profit margins as it is.......
Re:Movin' on up (Score:1)
Re:Movin' on up (Score:2)
Re:Movin' on up (Score:1)
Tom Wolfe's "A Man In Full" has a main character Charlie Croker, who is the president of a big grocery company or something. Somewhere I heard there was some correlation to Kroger (a company I had never heard of before).
Heard you talk about grocery, first thing my brain spit up was Kroger. wanted to make sure they were actually a grocery company and not something else, so I did a google for "Kroger Grocery" and sonufagun, "Headquartered in Cincinnati, Ohio," from their website.
Re:Movin' on up (Score:2)
Re:Movin' on up (Score:1)
Walbaums? Shopright? Stop n Shop? Super fresh? Giant? Safeway? Shop-rite? Food Emporium? Macgruders? (Off the top of my dome)
However I'm sure they don't own Whole Foods.
Re:Movin' on up (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Movin' on up (Score:2)
Re:Movin' on up (Score:1)
Then, they are outta Austin, TX.
Re:Movin' on up (Score:2)
Re:Movin' on up (Score:2)
I wonder if they will eventually decide they need to have a national brand and rebrand all of the chains they own as "Kroger". It seems businesses swing back and forth between wanting to keep a strong local brand and wanting a national well-known brand.
Re:Movin' on up (Score:2)
Re:Movin' on up (Score:2)
Cincinnati, and top 5 grocery chain doesn't leave too many options. Especially since I suspect that Safeway and Albertson's don't have any major IT operations in Ohio.
ha! (Score:2)
I think... (Score:2)
1) I agree with your father, especially about trying to play hardball.
2) Seems to me you're in a situation you like, where they like you and they're making a sincere effort to give you an upwards path. If that's accurate, I'd be leery about jumping ship for an unknown situation.
Pop's got good advice. (Score:2)
I wouldn't fret too much about the "why am I worth more only when I'm threatening to leave" part, though. It's something to be cautious of, but given everything else you say is going on there at the moment, I think it's a background concern.
Good luck!
Like Hampster said... (Score:1)
He entertained an offer from a competing firm, then turned in his resignation, and I guess assumed he would discuss a counter offer with the boss when he did that. Instead, the boss took the letter, and told him I am sorry to see you go, but good luck.
Re:Like Hampster said... (Score:2)
However, in this discussion, I was asked about my interest in the position...
Big Grocery Chain... (Score:2)
I think I left skid marks running out of there.
Re:Big Grocery Chain... (Score:2)
Re:Big Grocery Chain... (Score:2)
Man, replace "Java" with "C#" and... and... *bursts into tears*
alternately (Score:1)
Figure out which one you'd be more content at long term. Go with that one.
My biggest question when looking for employement was "How high/far can I go?"
Re: (Score:2)