Slashdot Log In
Analyzing AT&T's Anti-Anti-Spam Patent
Posted by
simoniker
on Sun Nov 16, 2003 01:20 AM
from the oddness-abounds dept.
from the oddness-abounds dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Dan Gillmor is reporting in his eJournal taken, in turn, from Gregory Aharonian: AT&T has apparently been awarded a patent for circumventing certain spam filters, thereby providing slimeball spammers with yet a bigger hammer!" The patent covers "A system and method for circumventing schemes that use duplication detection to detect and block unsolicited e-mail (spam.)", although it's unclear exactly what AT&T want it for.
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
Analyzing AT&T's Anti-Anti-Spam Patent
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 314 comments
(Spill at 50!) | Index Only
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Hey! Shortsighted people! (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://fury.com/)
Yay AT&T. I applaud you.
Re:Hey! Shortsighted people! (Score:5, Insightful)
But on the other hand, I doubt ATT will be selling circumvention technology. Now, a fair guess would be that they won't sue the spammers for infringement, but may sue those who sell software used for spamming (who are generally a bit more findable).
Re:Hey! Shortsighted people! (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Friday December 17 2004, @05:00AM)
The matter being that unless sizeable amounts of money are involved, nothing gets enforced.
Re:Hey! Shortsighted people! (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Monday November 26, @06:13PM)
Hey, I hope this doesn't get me modded flamebait but I've had this thought for awhile and this seems like the ideal article to raise it in. Disclaimer: I am not endorsing or defending SPAM or the people behind it.
Has anyone else thought that the most effective way to combat SPAM would be with education not filters/lawsuits/etc?
It would seem logical to me to assume that at least a large number of (if not a vast majority of?) spammers are ignorant as to why it's a bad idea. They don't know much about the Internet, and some idiot with a spam-software outfit approaches them and tells them about this "Great Marketing Idea", sells them some software (that may or may not do various bad things like hiding headers/etc), and off they go!
My boss approached me once with some literature he received from one of these software companies. After my initial "WTF??? You aren't serious???" reaction I sat down with him and explained some of the history behind spamming, why it's a bad idea, would piss off our existing customers/alienate new ones, etc etc etc. Based on this experience it would seem to me that the most logical solution would be to educate the companies behind the spamming as to why it's a "Bad Idea".
Of course, this theory doesn't hold any water when you look at pornographic spam, Nigerian bank fraud spam (my personal favorite), pyramid schemes, etc etc. But it probably would be a better approach when dealing with the idiots who have been duped into thinking that unsolicited e-mail is a legitimate marketing tool. At the very least it can't hurt any.
Just a thought I've had for awhile now.
Re:Hey! Shortsighted people! (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Just do a mass spam once a month, or even once a week, to every email address you can find. Do a few spams: one selling Viagra, a few pushing different types of porn, etc. Cover the basic list of things that get spammed for on a regular basis.
Make the offers believable, and direct the recipient to an appropriately believable web site. Take their credit card details (but don't actually charge the card), do the whole lot. Right at the end, though, put up a page and say "hey, this is a scam site. Lucky we didn't really take your money!"
This will make all of those people that actually buy from these emails actually think twice the next time they go to purchase.
I wouldn't mind getting these "spams" as often as other spam if only for the fact that because the goal of these emails is to educate, there would be no reason to try and break through Bayesian filtering (or any other form). That is to say that they would be very easy for me to filter and never see, and hopefully at the same time we would see a reduction in other types of spam as people are educated about the problems associated with it (as it would drive sales down).
Having said that, I know there is no limit to stupidity, so maybe the market will always be big enough...
Re:Hey! Shortsighted people! (Score:4, Funny)
(Last Journal: Sunday November 05 2006, @05:31AM)
I'm astounded at your self-control. I'd have slapped him sillty.
-jcr
Wrong numbers (Score:5, Informative)
On the other hand real email marketing (done by a well known legitimate business, targetted to specific peoples who agreed to receive it) can get much better results.
ATT will be selling circumvention (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember being charged for an unlisted number?
1990...
AT&T sells us caller-id, and then sells caller-id avoidance devices to marketeers, then sells us next-gen caller id to thwart their devices...etc...etc.
AT&T has been playing the middle for years...I see no reason for them to stop now. Patents just mean more money, faster.
Re:ATT will be selling circumvention (Score:5, Funny)
ATT sells their spam circumvention patents to SCO, who, dying from their fight with IBM, seeks to build a new business providing software tools for the spam community.
PRECISELY! (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.evilnet.net/ | Last Journal: Wednesday August 30 2006, @12:30PM)
Now, instead of being well-nigh untouchable due to spam's precarious placement as little more than a highly undesireable activity, AT&T can go after spammers IN COURT on grounds of PATENT INFRINGEMENT.
And going to court over something like this takes megabucks. Especially against a company the size of AT&T. Even if the spammers somehow weasel out on technicalities (like they didn't actually infringe on the patent directly), they're still going to be out so much money that their great grandkids aren't even going to be able to go to any educational institution after public high school.
Re:PRECISELY! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Hey! Shortsighted people! (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://news.google.com/)
Re:Hey! Shortsighted people! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hey! Shortsighted people! (Score:4, Funny)
Which would make it an anti-anti-anti-spam technique
Re:Hey! Shortsighted people! (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.speakeasy.net/~sbrinich)
True, though it's unfortunate that the government hasn't already done so on the grounds that circumventing an anti-spam filter is a form of cracking.
Re:Hey! Shortsighted people! (Score:5, Informative)
(http://iki.fi/jni/ | Last Journal: Thursday November 27 2003, @05:14AM)
If the technique is well-known and utilized prior the patent as well as extensively discussed in public forums (like nearly all ways of bypassing the spam filters are), then the patent can be nullified. In other words:
Re:Hey! Shortsighted people! (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Wednesday January 31 2007, @02:25AM)
This isn't "providing slimeball spammers with yet a bigger hammer". It's a bread-and-butter spamming technique. Almost all the spam I get is salted with random letters or dictionary words in the address or message body to change the hash (and is therefore infringing on AT&T's new patent). We just saw a story a few days ago where spammers were sprinkling fraudulent scam emails with hash-busting characters [securityfocus.com] to get past filters.
One of the nice things about spammers is that (unlike their opponents) they rarely patent the circumvention mechanisms they use, leaving their bag of tricks open for intellectual property land grabs like this one. Compared to laws against spam, which for the most part hardly exist, patent law rests on sound international footing and gives AT&T much greater leverage against spammers who are now patent infringers. Good for AT&T. I wish I'd thought of it first.
It's lunacy to assume that AT&T secured this patent for any other reason- like productizing this stupid patent. Are they going to sell a new software suite for spamming? Spammers aren't an ideal software market by any reasonable standard. There's only 180 of them. AT&T would sell one copy, it would get pirated 179 times, everyone with a copy would start spamming warez versions of it, and that would be the end of it. Assuming that spammers cared about using patent-encumbered software at all- which they don't. And AT&T would alienate its customers in all the other markets they're in. It would be like a Christian bookstore opening a bondage videos section. It makes no sense. I can't understand how anyone could possibly take the outrage in this article at face value.
What is really amazing about this patent is what it says about the research done by the USPTO. I bet the USPTO examiner received a dozen examples of prior art in his own inbox the very day he approved this patent, and he approved it anyway!
Re:No, not hash-busting characters. Read the paten (Score:5, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Wednesday January 31 2007, @02:25AM)
Yes it does. Note that while they describe many ways to alter a message, the specific method used is not central to their claim, which is merely that m different versions are created somehow, that recipients are assigned to sublists in which the same ISP does not appear twice, and each sublist gets a different version. While it doesn't mention them specifically, any technique using n random letters in a message will infringe, since it effectively divides all users into m=26^n sublists and sends the same message to all users in a sublist. Use of enough random characters effectively generates such a large m that each recipient lands in their own sublist. Therefore there is no need to "determine if the selected address is substantially similar to an address on the selected sublist" since there are no addresses already in the sublist. Nobody gets the same message, so you don't need to worry about two copies of one version going to users at the same ISP. It is algorithmically equivalent to what they're claiming.
The patent goes on to describe many ways that a message might be altered, like reordering paragraphs, etc. In general many of the techniques they describe are subtle and do not allow as many permutations as you can get from a bunch of random characters, and so they stipulate (as a part of the claim) that care must to be taken that no sublist contains two "similar" email addresses. Meaning, don't send two copies of the same version to two recipients at the same ISP, who will notice the identical message hash. Duh. Any spammer could figure that out for himself. And like I said, if you use a large enough m this part of the patent is irrelevant since you don't need to worry about this problem. All the messages are unique.
If you are too lazy to read the entire patent, and insist on only reading a small part, how about also reading what the claims section says instead of just the abstract?
Yeah, what in the claims section do you think I missed?
Sometimes, you know, patents are allowed that don't actually have prior art, or at least aren't as obvious as the abstract makes them sound.
While true, that's irrelevant in this case because this is an obvious patent with plenty of prior art.
That gives me an idea! (Score:5, Funny)
Up next.. (Score:5, Funny)
(Last Journal: Friday December 26 2003, @08:33PM)
Obvious value (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://samspade.org/)
If you look back, at the time AT&T would have been filing the patent they were in the consumer ISP business.
Odds are it was filed as an offensive tool to use against spammers.
A patent such as this could be used as a hammer against spammers using filter evasion approaches. The value of that for an ISP of the size of AT&T far exceeds the cost of filing a patent.
(AT&T are pretty clueless on many levels, but this looks like it was a smart move. It'll be interestng to see what, if anything, they do with it.)
Wait a minute ... (Score:5, Insightful)
2) AT&T can prevent anyone else from circumventing anti-spam filtering software with this patent
3) Ergo, AT&T are the good guys
wait a minute, I thought they were the bad guys [slashdot.org]
I'm confused now
Re:Wait a minute ... (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://drunkcoder.com/)
Then again, I suppose I'm lucky that I block only 200 spam messages a day, with only about 5 getting through.
Pink contracts (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.barbieslapp.com/)
What I suspect that they will do is allow it for their Pink contract holders and go after anyone else.
Wouldn't that be illegal in the US anyway? (Score:5, Interesting)
That's a question, not a statement.
Maybe AT&T is just disorganized (Score:5, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Friday March 26 2004, @04:22PM)
I could see a guy inside of AT&T working on something, and having to justify his time to his bosses. The lawyers who filed the patent probably work directly for AT&T, and so they gave it to them, and asked if it could be patented. The patent lawyers filed it, because they're patent lawyers, and that's what they do.
I tend to assume that this situation would fit right into a dilbert storyline. I don't think it's part of a grand strategy.
I can't imagine that AT&T would sell spam technology, because it would be a public relations nightmare. And I can't imagine that they'd try to sue spammers for patent infringment, because that would be expensive, and they wouldn't get anything out of it.
Re:Maybe AT&T is just disorganized (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://phroggy.com/)
You don't think they'd sell it under the "AT&T" brand name, do you?
Several distinct companies operate under the AT&T brand name; I'm sure AT&T owns several companies that operate under different brand names as well.
How many normal people do you suppose make a connection between Bugs Bunny, WinAmp, Mapquest and CNN? They wouldn't make the connection between AT&T and whatever subsidiary sold the spam software either.
THey've patented something... illegal? (Score:3, Funny)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Okay. I can work with that. Now I shall patent a method to circumvent systems that use visual inspections to detect and block illegal quantities of cocaine from entering national and/or state jurisdictions.
Forget trying to wrest money out of some crummy /spammers/.
A victory for anti-spam (Score:4, Interesting)
With the patent, AT&T can sue the makers of spamming software for patent infringement, unless SpamCo (or whatever company) makes sure that their mass e-mailer doesn't use any of AT&T's patented methods for avoiding filters. Of course, this will result in a crippled program: AntiSpamCo (or whatever company) knows exactly what SpamCo is not allowed to do, so their anti-spam filters will actually work.
So why is AT&T doing this? One, it could be good PR for them once AntiSpamCo et al. realize the implications. Two, (this is for all you conspiracy freaks out there) the government may have asked them do to it. Governmental agencies cannot hold patents. Only individuals and corporations hold patents.
I'm not trying to claim that AT&T is some benevolent corporation, though. It's entirely possible that, in addition to suing SpamCo, AT&T could also try to sue AntiSpamCo. They might not have as strong a case, but AntiSpamCo would still be using pieces of AT&T patent in their filtering software.
Despite that troublesome possibility, it'll be good to see SpamCo get what's coming to it. A lot (perhaps most) of SpamCos are rather or the sleazy, shoddy side; I'm sure there will be patent infringement. It will be interesting too see how soon and how vigorously AT&T will defend their patent in court.
The next big patents? (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.school.net/)
And recursively more anti- as well?
AT&T has cornered the market (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday August 14 2002, @01:03PM)
I sure hope AT&T don't enforce this patent (Score:3, Funny)
(http://www.theschmoejoes.com/ | Last Journal: Saturday June 19 2004, @02:56PM)
I'll chime in on the anti-patent side (Score:5, Insightful)
probably just a fluke (Score:5, Insightful)
The reason why... (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://127.0.0.1/)
If they cannot call you [nypost.com] to get you to change your long distance service, maybe they are doing to "telemarket" to your inbox. The Federal 'Do Not Call List' is changing the way a lot of traditional telemarketers are doing their business. Since they are now being fined for calling you, they need another way to invade your life and bombard you with offers. Having a technology that can circumvent spam blocking would be a step up on the competition.
useless patent (Score:4, Informative)
Modern spam detection which uses statistical methods applied to the spam content would be unaffected by the techniques described in the patent.
get the spam tool makers (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://www.chaostrophy.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday September 25 2002, @07:43PM)
A world of AT&T only spam? (Score:3, Funny)
(http://www.hotpop.com/)
Infinite Loop? (Score:3, Funny)
2) Article links to Slashdot discussion
3) Slashdot links back to article
4) Article links back to Slashdot discussion
repeat...
What's good for the goose (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.northarc.com/~ke6isf | Last Journal: Tuesday November 23 2004, @01:32AM)
That AT&T came out and did this, frankly, rocks. Good show, guys.
The only concern I have is that there is prior art, which will come up as a double-edge sword again. Prior art will protect the good guys from frivolous patent filings (Amazon, anybody?), but as such I'm concerned that the spammers will pull the prior art card against AT&T. On the other hand, AT&T's interest - protecting their network - and the fact that they probably have infinitely larger amounts of money than your spammers just might put an end to them for now.
useless patent # 3,454,343 (Score:3, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Wednesday November 05 2003, @03:12AM)
Re:Just going from the summary... (Score:3, Informative)
(http://drunkcoder.com/)