Onstar Navigation System to Deliver In-Car Spam

pneuma_66 writes: "According to the New York Times (Free reg, don't cha know) navigation systems, like OnStar, are planning to deliver ads based on the car's location. For example, the system will 'notify' the driver of sales in nearby stores. The vp of OnStar says "The privacy and the confidentiality of our subscribers are of the utmost importance", well lets see how the big companies play with this new wealth of information."

Well Well Spam even while travelling!

Well, apparently now you cant run to your car to hide from all that spam you get from the USPS and your email and your AOL email.. They've now got you! you go camping with your car, you're still going to get spammed.. seems to me that they've got every corner of the earth to be now non-spam-free.. unless you do go hiking into the wilderness.. but heck.. maybe they've got some trees hooked up to the net so you'll be spammed in the wilderness now too!

Isnt there any end to this spamfest?

Moderation Totals: Funny=+1 Insightful=+1 SpamComplaint=-1

I get enough spam from these people as it is

GM must think that OnStar is a big new cash cow, because since I bought my 2001 Grand Prix, they've not let up on the junk snail mail to home... wish they'd get the message.

Online spam in the car? Ouch

This will last right up until the first accident

Picture the scenario, you're concentrating on where you're going, because you've never been there before, its hectic traffic, somewhere in the city, where the ordeal of keeping track of pedestrians and cars is enough to deal with. Suddenly, your attention is jolted elsewhere by a voice in your car (you're alone), you take your eyes off the road to find the source of voice which says "Up ahead on the right is Foobar's. Foobar's is having a sale on diapers right now!"... by the time you realize its a crummy OnStar ad, and return your attention to the road, it's too late to notice the bicyclist chewing on your grill.

So when the bicyclist sues you, and you in turn pin it on OnStar, that's when this shit will be nipped in the bud.

RTFA

Its only happening when you use their 'virtual advisor' service. Yeah, you pay for it. but its not going to be interrupting your service use. If you dont like it, dont buy it. duh!

will that even work...

... seriously. Will that work? Oftentimes there will only be one person in the car and hence he/she wont be able to look down to see the ad. Besides, with the way people drive these days, wno one will have time to stop for a sale anyway.

Now something more realistic (if it isnt there already) would be having the system allow a user to query information about nearby hotels, malls, restaurants, etc.

Onstar Navigation System to Deliver In-Car Spam

Wonder how Batman is going to react to this. Joker will love it for obvious reasons.

This is stupid.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but people pay for this OnStar service. And they feel the need to make more money by selling ads in people's cars?

I read something in Analog SF recently that involved a household robot that you could get for free, in exchange for having it spout ads all the time. ("You are out of window cleaning fluid. I suggest you buy Windex! Streak free cleaning bla bla bla...") Maybe if they gave you the OnStar service free, or at a reduced rate, the incar ads wouldn't be so bad... but even then, this is kind of a bad idea.

We'll see how the market likes this.

OMG

Advertising is really getting awfull. I can see a huge suit going over this. And I hoep so. Buy a product, and then they advertise to you!

Pay them, and STILL get spam?

I bet they're going to try the same tired line of "Well, in this dynamic market, we need to experiment with sources of revenue..blabla..."

They're *already* charging people something like $399/yr, in addition to the stuff being installed on your vehicle,and NOW they're going to try throwing ADVERTISEMENTS at you?

Screw *that* - I'll just drive around with my happy Garmin eTrex GPS unit. At least it doesn't feel the need to inform me of a sale at Macy's.

On the flip side, Onstar really CAN find most anything. Our crazy friend Bill called Onstar and asked "Where's the nearest tittie bar?" and we had the answer within seconds. Gotta love that kind of service. :-)

no pop-ups?

The article indicates no pop up ads. That's a relief for me as a driver - i dont want an ad suddenly blocking my vision of the road. But like Internet ads, they didnt start off with pop ups either - so the question is how long until the ad appears on my windshield via heads up displays?

Let's see here...

This might not be all bad... take an example scenario for instance:

1. VA Linux, err... Systems... err, whatever they are nowaways sells all customer information on every /. user in existence to the OnStar folks.

2. Geeks everywhere are suddenly constantly notified (in that pleasant feminine voice) of valuable chances to spend their money:

• "There is a strip club off to your left. Those women like geeks."
  
  
• "Adult video store just around the corner!"
  
  
• "That iMac girl is real, and she's giving out table dances at the Fun Club downtown at eight o'clock!"
  
  
• "Your boss just installed Windows XP across the company network. Your BSD server is gone. Wouldn't you like to purchase a firearm at Ed's Discount Sawn-offs tonight?"
  
  

The possibilities are limitless. :)

If done right, it might actually be useful

I too have a knee-jerk reaction to advertising, however I think I would love to have such a service done right, and delivered into my car. I don't know about you, but I think that being in an unknown area and getting notified of nearby restaurants/shops/whatever is kinda neat.

Don't forget advertising's original goal: to get the word out about products.

We finally have it!

OPT-IN MARKETING!!!! I never thought I'd see the day merketers ask me if I want to see ads. Read the article and you shall see - the spamming requires you to sign up. Of course one already pays soemthing like 400/year for it, so i dont know how many people will jump for joy over this. Maybe if they cut the fee for signing up they'll get some people who will live with ads.

It will work...

Ok while I hate to say that this is spam and all spam is bad, it will work...

Let me explain why. Right now there is a certain amount of noise, much like a radio. But now imagine a radio that can custom tailor information based on your location.

I have a GPS system in my car and I LOVE IT!!! I never have to read another map. And in Europe the GPS system is REALLY accurate. What I would love to do is tell my system that I am interested in buying something in the next week. And if I drive past a store that has that something tell me. Or if I need that something right away tell me. The point is that I would really like this even though it is spam.

I think the difference with this spam and other spam is that this is pin point spam that may actually be relevant on the spur of the moment.

AOL/OnStar collaboration

Drive by the post office... You've got mail!
Drive by Harvard University... Get your PhD degree!
Drive by the bank... Make $$$ Fast!
Drive by the swimming pool... Get wet pussy now!

Thanks to OnStar and AOL, my daily commute is finally going to become fun again!

How's this different from radio?

I don't mean the technical differences, but the fact that you are getting advertisements you didn't request. I suppose the next step will be to create the "Onstar Silver" system, where you can configure the type of ads you want to get, "Onstar Gold", where you can make queries about the nearest restaurants, etc, and the "Onstar Platinum" where you are given the choice of not receiving any ads.

A Database to Snoop With?

Yeah, but here's the real question.

Supposing OnStar can track where your car is, can't it also track acceleration and velocity and all that? I mean, supposing there's a sale at a Bob's Stores. It flashes the Ad.

Now, supposing you slow down and turn into the Bob's Stores parking lot. OnStar, technically, could save this information as specific to your vehicle. An entry in their big database that says "Customer 84392 will respond to advertising in this catagory."

What it all seems like is one big cyber-snoop service, tracking where you really are and advertising towards your patterns. A waste of car battery just like the new limewire ads are a waste of processing power.

Now, OnStar could say they won't do this, but you know it'll happen. It's a perfect advertising scheme. They'd know exactly what kind of driver and shopper you were dependant on what stores and advertisements you listened to and responded to.

Ieshan
Predictor at Large

Driving By Spam...

Lost again! Drat!

Oh please OnStar gods help me!

"Hello, OnStar BOFH here"

Yeah, I'm lost, I'm trying to find 1234 Bovine...

"No Problem Sir..."
""
"Up on your right there is a WalMart, do you see it?"

Uh, yeah, sure... but what...

"Pull into the parking lot so I might give you some indepth instructional proceedures."

OK...

"WalMart is having a special on Remington Pump Shotguns, they normally retail for..."

Wait, I need to get to...

"Sure, proceed north for 3 miles and I'll alert you when you reach THAT destination."

"On your right is a StarBucks giving a special discount to OnStar Customers!"

I really really need to get to 1234 bovine...
There is a really important meeting that I must attend, if I don't make it, it could mean the end of my career and all dreams!

"Oh that sounds important..."
""
""

Um, sir, this looks like the same walmart I was at an hour ago. My god, the meeting is over... I'm ruined! What is your problem!

"You've reached WalMart, home of the Wally arsenal collection! Your profile suggests this would be perfect"

AAAAARGG!

How much were those shotguns?

Onstar Navigation System to Deliver in-Car Spam

Certainly opens a few possible 'revenue opportunities' for those in the advertising sector. Whether it will catch on is another matter. From a commercial standpoint it's great to advertise to those most likely to buy from you (and if they are nearby, so much the better).

However it's going to be difficult to sell advertising space to reach, lets say, the one unfortunate bastard in the whole state who has bought Onstar and happens to pass by everyday as he leaves his house...

And anyway, as a private individual, I abhor the idea of yet more corporate 'throat-stuffing' as I go about my daily business.

They had that on Knight Rider

.

K.I.T. Michael, there's a 40% discount sale at the "Spank Your Pants" Adult Bookstore in that strip mall to the right.

M. Knight Excellent Kit! Go to "pursuit" mode.

My ad...

Come to Chuck's Garage. We'll disconnect this bloody thing.

Run in fear! Buy Tickets! It's Harry Potter's box office. [lostbrain.com]
tcd004

'adult' stores

Scenario: A man is driving the family to a nice dinner in the minivan. He drives past a shady section of town. Suddenly, an advert for a nearby adult 'alternative lifestyle' gentlemen's club that he frequents comes on the speakers. It's even displayed on the navigation screen. At the very end, the announcer quickly says the terms and conditions, then says that the ad was chosen because of the number of times his car has been parked close to the store.

Great sign me up!

Wahoo! I don't have enough spam as it is. Think about this. You wake up in the morning, take a shower, check email before you head to work and are instantly bombarded with spam. %90 of the messages you received are spam and are mostly for disgusting porn sites. You then go to your car hear nothing but ads on the radio, your On-star then goes off every 30 seconds with annoying ads as you drive near a mall or downtown district. For me, living in New York city, I bet it will probably go off every 10 seconds where I am constantly surrounded by stores! Then you get to work and guess what? Then you get even more spam. Your corporate email will be loaded with spam and your co-workers with beepers will receive spam! Imagine being at work when your beeper goes off displaying spam and you or your employer has to pay $.15 for each spam ad you receive! I just can't take it anymore! This is becoming a sad reality. I hear the old Monty Python song spam going off in my head right now as I type this.

If I had one of these things in my car, I would probably rip it out with my own bare hands! How intrusive can you get! With email you can just ignore it or click on it and delete it. But with verbal harassment's ...oops I mean verbal spam that you can not shut off its, its 100 times as worse. Thats right. You can't turn On-star off! It will just go on and on to your ears go deaf or you go nuts! If On-star ever does this they will commit corporate. No one would possible want a constant spam machine in there cars. I do not like distractions when I am driving. Especially ones that are verbal. All I have to say is that I am sorry for On-star owners who are reading this right now.

I remember not too long ago that you can have your access to the internet could be terminated for spamming. You could be flamed or kicked out of a newsgroup for spamming only a single spam ad. Seriously. Spamming was very bad. Just ask any old timer. The internet and especially the newsgroups section of it were created for schools and institutions to share and exchange ideas and to promote learning. Today its being banned from schools thanks to porn spams. I was on dejanews recently and I saw actual pedophile spam ads. If I had kids I definitely would not want them to log on to the newsgroups today. What a shame.

On a sidenote...

The european union has decided that:

• sending spam via SMS to cellular phones is illegal (strange: the sender aka spammer will pay the bill)
• sending spam via e-mail is legal (here the innocent receiver has to pay the BIG part of the bandwith involved)
• persistent cookies are illegal (only session cookies are allowed)
• nothing about spyware (as if it were less intrusive than cookies!!!)

More here: Heise Online [heise.de]

long live our clueless politicians!

ms

First reaction

My first reaction was now they've gone and completely screwed up a good product. I was considering getting one of these but if they're going to bombard me with ads, forget it.

My second reaction, upon seeing it is opt-in, is who's stupid enough to sign up for this?

Re:First reaction

My second reaction, upon seeing it is opt-in, is who's stupid enough to sign up for this?

The yellow pages is opt-in advertising, but people still use it every day to find out the locations of certain types of stores. All they have to do is get a large enough number of stores to participate so that I can say "Onstar, where is the nearest pizza place. Place an order for a large pepperoni pie.", and there will be plent of people signing up for it. Hell, I'd probably consider signing up for it, if it was free like the yellow pages.

Too weird

All the in car nav systems I have seen/used always pop up a box warning the driver not to use the system while driving. I guess this allows the manufacturer to disclaim liability problems that might happen for accidents with claims like "I was looking at my nav system when I hit x..."

So on the one hand we are discouraged to use the device then driving around, and to only look it at to get directions, but now the device is going to be advertising junk - trying to get our attention?

Seems like a liable case waiting to happen, unless it only displays spam when the vehicle is detected to be stationary (which would make the spam low volume->not spam).

Yea but...

Will it find me a parking space, park my car, watch the kids, and beep loudly at me until I find the right door to the sellers location?

No? Then I ain't stoppin in the middle of town.

Didn't one commercial have

On-Star in the Bat Mobile?

Duh-nun-nunna-duh-nuh-nunna BAT SPAM!!!

Spam?

But it's not spam!

It's "targetted advertising." :-)

Information you can use!

Judging on the areas I have to drive through to get to work, I'll be receiving lots and lots of ads for where I can buy the purest heroin and the cheapest automatic weapons...

And you HAVE to buy it.

If you want to buy an LT model truck or sport ute (LT = heated, pleather, power seats in addition to all other options on truck), you have to get OnStar. There is no way for me to purchase the GM vehicle I want without buying onstar, and then having the burden of removing it and ordering a panel for the next trim level down to fill the hole.

Hey my radio does that too!

I go to another town and hear advertising for that town! Yeah!

Of course for some reason the radio stations don't seem to need to track my every movement, or make me pay to recieve their ads, but hey this is progress!

free onstar, yay!

well thats cool, now sicne onstar is lining its pockets with ad money, it will be a free service...right, right??? RIGHT?!

i cant tell you how badly this sits with me...

What's the benifit to the consumer?

Seriously... usually advertising helps pay for something the user gets for free... eg. TV shows, access to mapquest, things like that.

Will the price of OnStar be lower because of this? Or will this end up being another thing like cable, where you pay an enourmous amount of money for something that used to be done for free to the enduser, but now you pay AND get commercials.

simple solution

Dont buy Onstar. Buy an aftermarket Nav system that isn't going to rob you blind monthly and then for the quarterly navigation disc updates. (Nothing like a forced upgrade.. your navdisks are too old, please replace them with a newer version...)

There are several Car computing/navigation systems out there. Hell if you want one that is cheap but the first one out there buy an autopc off of ebay. (Dont pay any more than $600.00 for a new one with gps and nav... I've seen them at the "super deals that cost $5.00 to get in" around here for $550.00 with software.)

The biggest problem with most of these navigation systems is that they use the really crappy maps from navtech corperation.. They make the worst map database on the planet... if the city is below 1,000,000 in population it isn't on the disc. and errors will stay there for years before they fix them.

The best nav-system I saw was a Q-pc car computing platform running linux and then running delorme with wine... it rocked, and the 4 year old disc database was perfectly useable if you were interested in addresses or routes...

only problem is that the Q-pc with display is about $3000.00.... ICK... anyone have a nice 4.5 inch 800X600 TFT lcd that can withstand -60degF and has touchscreen? I'll design the vehicle mounted computer. :-)

Every system can be hacked...

Now that OnStar exports the real-time location data, there must be a rather massive data stream somewhere.

Now suppose I were to intercept that stream. I've always been able to find out data about your car from the DMV (tag #s, VIN, etc). I could then filter that stream for YOUR car, and know where you are at all times. Perhaps I could track you, and notice that you go down a country road everyday on the way to work.

It is a known method of the Mafia to kill people by placing a bomb in a road, and blowing up your car. Now, I could use that data stream to set up my device in a pothole on that country road without ever following you. Nobody ever sees me. I arm the mine with an RF link when you get near it, and it's all over.

In other news...

In other news tonight, over 75% of OnStar subscribers are considdering canceling the service, or maybe just driving into the store window "to your left that has a great sale on plus size jeanes."

OnStar - has a 70% NON-renwal rate...

According to a poll at saab.com, 70% of current OnStar users do NOT plan on renewing their service after the first free year.
I know I won't - it's cute, but not worth the $$. They want $0.50/min for cell phone use on top of the annual fee! The GPS data is only available to the call center and the thing can't even set the time in the car!
This debacle was obviously created by a Marketing committe.

Not to be a Luddite, but...

...this just confirms that "a map" may be the best navigation system out there, if only because it's quiet.

And "a book" may be the best way to read a book, because you can carry it with you and read it wherever, even without violating the law.

What I'm afraid of is the day where you can't get 99% of the books in paper, and where cars come with always-on navigation and "security monitoring" systems which blare ads at you without your ability to stop it.

I'm not afraid of technology. I'm afraid of the dunderheads we have running our world, and what they will do with technology (or anything else).

-Rob

Throw that junk in the garbage.

Well, you know what I'm gonna do, right? If I ever get a car with On Star, that thing is coming off. Even before the smog stuff.

How it works

Let me preface I'm a Chevrolet mechanic.
First Onstar uses the car's speakers. It stops the radio feed then the Onstar operator can speak to you through them. I don't think GM will brake into the radio signal just to send an add, sense this will only piss off paying customers. You have to pay for Onstar. The first year is free but after that it's a subscription.
Now how it works. It has 3 parts a GPS sender, a cell phone receiver, and a control module. The GPS sensor records the car's position. The control module calls the Onstar center every 10 minutes if memory serves. It will also send messages such as the air bag has gone off and the operator can call you assuming you still have power. There are also blue Onstar and red emergency buttons you can press to initiate a call.
Now there is a lot of Big Brother things that can be done with this system but I don?t think Spam is one that GM would stoop to. However I wouldn?t do anything illegal in an Onstar equipped vehicle.

Very misleading write-up

No, OnStar is NOT going to deliver in-car spam. If you read the article, you'd read that 'OnStar, by far the biggest service with 1.5 million users, says it makes note of a car's location only in an emergency or when a driver makes contact with the service.' 'OnStar seems more interested in advertising that is tied to content.' The title of this story is blatantly incorrect, and the write-up is very misleading.

Onstar is considering putting ads that are related to their content, such as ads for a brokerage if you're getting stock quotes. That's pretty far from 'in-car spam' based on tracking your location.

The only thing in the article that resembles this is the 'gas station locator' by Wingcast, a service which hasn't even been launched yet. It would notify you when your car runs low on gas, and give you directions to gas stations. It's a useful feature, and I'm sure you'll have to sign up for it before they send you gas station ads.

Personally I'd object to ads mixed in with a service that I paid good money for, even if they're not based on your location. For a few hundred dollars a year, I expect a service that's free of annoyances. A gas station locator isn't an annoyance, it's a feature.

Pushing

In the ad world this is known as pushing. The concept is to put ads where you never got them before. Cell phone, pager, and car when the radio is off, etc. They want you to see ads in church, on the beach, in the shower, and NASA is working on allowing commercial sponsorship of space missions. Can you see the Pepsi logo on the side of a rocket? I can.
It will get much worse. You know that networked refrigerator they keep telling us is going to come? It too will have ads.
Free software has ads. Spending on advertising is going down as people become trained to ignore them. Just 10 years ago there where 2 less minutes of commercials per 30 minutes of programming. You now see 6 times the number of ads you did 10 years ago (sorry can't think of the source).

Ads are getting more intrusive by the day. Remember when you would get your receipt and it would have coupons on the back? Those are too easy to tune out. Now you get a separate piece of paper with coupons on it.

You used to buy something and it would come with a free gift. That free gift has turned into a discount somewhere else. More advertising.

When will this change? It won't. What can you do to avoid all of this? Nothing. Well nothing unless you live like I do, which is not recommended.
o Text based browser.
o No pager
o No cell phone
o TV is not plugged in
o no VCR
o no DVD
o Listen to NPR, the ads here are even getting an out of hand for "commercial free programming"
o don't own a car
You see fewer ads on the bus because you can bury your head in a book and not have you eyes locked on the road where all those billboards, A-frame signs, and faux-hot-air balloons are.
o Don't shop at the big stores. Hit the thrift stores and antique stores.
o Eat at mom and pop places and not places with BigThemePark adverts on the tray liners, YBotherBox adds on the drinks and movie tie ins on the to go bags.
o and the list goes on.

To explain, no there is too much, let me sum up: This should come as no surprise.

How companies will use the info?

"...well lets see how the big companies play with this new wealth of information." -- As if you really need to ask that question. Although I'm sure it was done so facetiously. When will it all stop? Will it ever stop? Probably not. As long as there is money to be made, Big Business will be there to capture their unfair share of it.

TellMe has ads now

Dial TellMe at 1-800-555-8355, say "driving directions", and get driving directions interspersed with ads. Even worse, sometimes you get the ads even though the driving directions system is down.

TellMe also offers movie tickets via Fandango, which in my experience has something go wrong in almost every transaction. (Today: six minutes of voice interaction and credit card entry leads to "an unexpected error occured, transferring you to customer service... wait time at least ten minutes...").

I think the challenge of the post-Internet era is to re-implement the better ideas so that they don't suck.

Antique Pentium Laptop + GPS = ad-free nav system

My Pontiac has a dashboard Garmin GPS connected to an old 133MHz pentium laptop stashed under the seat. I can pull it out and place it on the passenger seat to interact with it. Mostly I just upload the navigation data from Street Atlas to the dashboard GPS since its display is quite adequate for most road navigation. This system is obviously not embedded into the dashboard and radio system as the nice luxury sedan solutions, but then it also didn't cost neither an arm or a leg. Look on eBay for old GPS receivers and laptops, there's tons of them. I recommend Delorme Street Atlas - you get good reliable maps and there's no subscription fee or ads or anything.

I work for OnStar

I work them and know exactly what they do with the vehicle and the capabilities of the OnStar system from the telephony, database, and internet connectivity and can say with some degree of certainty without even reading this article that this is 99% BULLSHIT in it's purest form.

Yes, they can do funky stuff with locating the vehicle and tracking speed, direction, blah blah blah... But this can only be done when the driver asks for it. The code simply does not exist to be able to initiate this. The proof is in the large number of requests we get to locate some drug dealers car by the local Enforcement Agency and we have to decline the offer. We get multiple supeona's every day on this.

As for spam in the vehicle... The technology isn't practical at this point in time. Could it be done, everything *could* be done eventually. But to track someone's location and pump them with ads is not a realistic technology for years to come. By then, who knows what the ethics or business rules will be.

This article sucks! I think we should be more paranoid about the other problems we have with technology today. This is merely a pathetic diversion. And no, I am not going to get a bonus for doing the 'corporate shill' think.

I could give a twip less about any of this, it's just that I *know* what's going on and am sick of the Chicken Little stories that are running around in the news media. Do you realized I don't take sugar doughnuts into work because they might leave behind a "mysterious white powder"? bleah!

Spam from the sky

How long will it be till HBO has commercials, along with the same concept that puts ads all over AOL's PAY internet connection software? Makes you want to pirate all of it...

Re:What about the monthly fee?

$10 a month??? Try about $39 a month... as another poster mentioned, about $399 per year, depending on what package you choose. GM won't waive that fat fee, not for putting up with ads or anything.

Re:Car Talk

For anyone who hasn't heard CarTalk, it's a true bit of radio-americana. They have a Real Audio archive of their shows on the website. Tom and Ray (the hosts) are both MIT grads, so their opinions are not only nerdy, but also quite often right, when it comes to auto-tech.