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CowboyNeal Speaks 162

Posted by Roblimo from the greatful-dead-fans-need-love-too dept.
After several years of reader requests, we finally cornered CowboyNeal long enough to do a Slashdot interview. Questions were posted last week. Today we brush aside the mask (or at least the hat) and get a glimpse of the real Jon Pater (aka CowboyNeal).

1) Karma?
by glowingspleen

Since you're probably the only one with real access to all the user records, you're the one to ask:

Who among us is the current Karma Whore King, and what is their score? Is there a maximum amount of karma one can earn?brAnd finally, is there a cutoff level where you auto-post at 3 or above?

CowboyNeal:

Wow, a question about karma, what I consider to be the most boring subject in all of Slashdot. I dunno who is the Karma Whore King, since we instituted a karma cap at 50, and all karma levels that are above 50 are living on borrowed time. Getting a karma above 20 allows one to post with a +1 bonus, and from there on there are no rewards.

I said that karma bores me, and I don't understand why people get all hung up over it. It's not like having a high karma is gonna get you discounts in stores. If you're really worried about karma, go donate money to charity or donate your time to some place that can use it. I guarantee the reward will be better than anything that Slashdot karma can get you.

2) Give us the ups and downs!
by Dino

What's the best thing that happened to you since Slashdot started? Conversly, what's the worst?

CowboyNeal:

Easily, the best part was when I got a real job out of it. I had done a few odds and ends for BSI and Slashdot before coming on full time, but getting a check on a regular basis is something I still am thankful for. The worst part is probably the sheer volume of email that I get to deal with on a daily basis. That's not to say that I dislike the people that email me, but it gets troublesome when one has an inbox that can take up to half a day daily to get squared away.

3) A User Info slashbox?
by update()

Like a lot of people, I bet, I frequently look at my user info page to see if there have been responses to my posts, and what moderations I have received. Would it be possible to provide a Slashbox with that information on the main page?

CowboyNeal:

This kind of thing could be implemented, but with our current setup it just wouldn't scale. It would need to add another query to viewing the home page, for each person that has it chosen. There might be a few tricks to implement this that could save some overhead, but if I were to make such a box, it definitely wouldn't happen until after Slashdot is running bender, the new development branch of Slashcode.

4) Slashdot
by emmons

How did you become tangled up in this Slashdot thing with that CmdrTaco guy? How did you guys meet?

CowboyNeal:

I met both Rob and Jeff when all of us where freshmen in college. Rob was in the same Health Dynamics (read, Phys. Ed.) class I was, and Jeff and I shared a lab bench in Chemistry Lab. The CS department at Hope wasn't that large, and most CS majors were aware of Chips & Dips, and would read it regularly. When I graduated, I was approached by Blockstackers, who owned Slashdot at the time, and offered a job. About two months later, Slashdot was acquired by Andover.Net (now OSDN) and my employment was transferred to them.

5) Yes!
by OlympicSponsor

I've been following CowboyNeal's career for years, reading everything he writes, watching all of his movies and eating all of his cooking. Now I finally have a chance to ask him the question that's been burning me up inside: What's Taco really like?

Seriously, can you give us a breakdown of how much time each editor spends actually reading the site they nominally run? Like, time spent clicking on user comments?

CowboyNeal:

Hrm, it sounds like you might have me confused with someone else. I've never made any movies or had a restaurant *grin*. Honestly, I don't know how much time an editor spends doing those tasks. I would assume it varies from person to person, but I don't share office space with hardly any of them, nor do any of them ever have to report to me.

I know from our internal discussion lists and channels, that all of us are constantly reading the site, but as for a detailed breakdown, I'd have no idea where to start.

6) The future
by yamla

What will you be doing in five years? In ten years? If you expect/hope to still be with Slashdot, what sort of changes do you see happening to Slashdot in that time?

And yes, I know 5 - 10 years is an eternity.

CowboyNeal:

5 - 10 years is an eternity! I don't even know what I'm doing two weeks from now!

I wish I knew. I was the kid in school who when asked what he wanted to be when he grew up, didn't have the slightest clue. When I finally discovered computers, I knew that I wanted to work with computers in some capacity for a living. When I think about how much technology has advanced since I first started using a computer, it's truly amazing how far we've come. I'm hoping that someday we can put all this patent/copyright/intellectual property BS behind us, and by that time someone will have discovered the secret to putting infinite bandwidth into everyone's homes and with all of these new resources at our disposal, someone will discover the new killer app for all of it, repeat ad infinitum. That's how the system works. I just hope to be there and be a part of the process somehow. I think it's especially interesting how the internet and all of what it entails has made it easier for people to communicate and become exposed to experiences and views they normally wouldn't, so any new advances will hopefully only improve that.

I don't think Slashdot will do anything like try to take over all forms of media or any sort of grand scheme like that because there's already organizations into that sort of thing. I do think, however, that if a new way of delivering content that replaces or augments the web comes about, that we will most likely be there.

This is probably the best question I've been asked, because it was easily the toughest for me to answer. My job now is primarily the day-to-day maintenance of Slashdot, which means that I'm not usually concerned with looking to the future, but rather just making sure that our current system runs smoothly. In short, I'm not a leader but a follower.

7) What was your fav poll abuse?
by chabotc

What poll in which you were an 'option', did you find most amusing/entertaining?

What was the most depressing?

CowboyNeal:

The first few times I was a poll option I thought it was funny, but I have become rather immune to it now. Now it's to the point where I'm surprised when I am not an option. As for trying to pick out particular polls that amused or depressed me, I can't really remember any.

8) tell us the truth
by segmond

How often have you posted anonymously? do you have a pseudo handle? Have you ever trolled? Are you getting bored with slashdot? What is the biggest screw up that you did to the site that we never found out? Have you ever used "super moderating power" to mod down posts attacking slashdot editors...? What is your favorite pizza topping and sandwich?

CowboyNeal:

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.

That should bring me up to the "screw up" question, so I will now relate a story that showcases my stupidity. One day I was working on Slashdot's database, and cleaning up a lot of old database entries, when I suddenly realized I'd forgotten a "WHERE" clause in one of the SQL statements.

Unfortunately, this was after the statement had already run, and the blocks table was completely wiped out. If you know anything about Slashcode, you know that blocks holds everything from color schemes, to the slashboxes, the HTML that gives the site its look and feel, to all the headlines that go into the slashboxes on the right side of the homepage. Of course, this brought the site to a halt until we could restore from backup. I was able to berate myself before anyone else could, though, so anyone in the know about my mistake was fairly forgiving.

As for "super moderating power", I know I could go into the database and moderate like crazy, but my ethics won't allow me to do so. Also, I don't usually read comments attached to stories. I have banned IP addresses from which people have been hammering on the site with scripts at the rate of several requests a second, but I don't actively moderate any stories.

I don't know if I have a favorite pizza topping. I used to work at a pizza place when I was in high school, and learned to like almost every pizza topping there is, even anchovies.

My favorite sandwich is easily a veggie submarine. I'm not a vegetarian, but I find myself ordering veggie subs more than any other sandwich.

9) Anime
by spudwiser

Seeing as in most Geeks in Space episodes Anime quotes and quips spew forth from you, I think we the listeners (and deranged readers) should see exactly how your background in anime developed.

CowboyNeal:

Well, this answer is pretty boring. One day in college my friend and I decided we should watch some anime, because we had heard it was cool. So we took a week, and rented a movie or two per night, starting with Ghost In The Shell, then moving on to Akira, Fist Of The North Star, and Vampire Hunter D. I think those are the anime titles everyone starts with, because they're available at almost any Blockbuster.

But yeah, we discovered we liked it, and I just started watching more anime. I warned that this answer was boring.

10) Stories
by Fervent

Why don't you yourself ever post any stories, Cowboy Neal?

CowboyNeal:

Oh, but I do. On the rare occasion that we get to record an episode of Geeks In Space I'll post the announcement in the radio section. Sometimes a story falls through the cracks and I'll pick it up, also, but that happens much less often lately. Rob and Jeff like to say that the surefire way to not get a story posted is to email it directly to them instead of using the submissions bin, but if you want to absolutely sure your story doesn't get posted to the site, email me it to me instead. *grin*
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

CowboyNeal Speaks More

CowboyNeal Speaks

Comments Filter:

  • Cowboy Neal (Score:4)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:07AM (#407490)
    is the most boring person imaginable.
  • Subject: CowboyNeal Speaks!

    Sit, CowboyNeal! Stay! Stay! No! Bad CowboyNeal! No hot grits for you!

    --

  • I don't think it will exist in 5-10 years. We can see that it is being torn asunder even now, as the weight of its users grows apace and the number of users exceeds 300k, 400k , 500k where will it stop? Also, there is a migration of the most intelligent users away to kuro5hin, which is a much more innovative weblog than /., and is a community rather than a mob.

    Ultimately, I don't think Slashdot will exist in 5 years time for technological reasons. Eventually everyone will have huge bandwidth and something else will spring up to take /.'s place. I consider Slashdot to be a hiatus between Usenet and the next big thing.

    Regarding Karma, I agree. It really doesn't matter a hoot, and 'Karma Whores' appear to be a thing of the past with the advent of the Karma Cap. However, it really would be better for /. if Karma were invisisble to the user, that way the pointless competitive aspect would not occur.

    I just wish the people that harass me would get the message and go away. They really are annoying, and appear to have the wrong end of the stick.
    --
    Clarity does not require the absence of impurities,

  • Never posts... (Score:5)

    by Skyshadow ( 508 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:10AM (#407493) Homepage
    Does anyone else find it just a little odd that these guys would put all this effort into creating the Grand Queen Mother of all geek discussion forums and then never post?

    I think I've only seen 1-2 posts from any editor of Slashdot (not counting Katz), and that was waaay back in the day.

    ----

  • Ah, yes.. But the true question is: What does cowboyneal look like in a black leotard?
  • I thought the +1 post bonus came in a karma level 26? When did this change?
  • Okay, I know I really am not allowed to gripe, because I didn't submit any questions of my own to be asked, but I'm started to see how one-dimensional the questions were. Granted, they were *good*, but they were almost all (6 out of 10, if I count correctly) about Paters' involvment with the noble Slashdot.

    I'm sure he loves /. and all, but I was hopping for more of a glimpse about CowboyNeal the person, not only CBN the Slashdot Admin.

    At the very least, he should have been given a question about scratching ;)

  • Most evasive interview yet! (Score:5)

    by aidoneus ( 74503 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:16AM (#407497) Journal
    At the risk of bucking /. dogma, here I go. I didn't expect any Nobel Prize material from the insights in this interview, but seriously, CowboyNeil dodged the first few questions faster than an MPAA lawyer in an indictment. So of us really would like to know if the /. editors every really read the site, but instead we get a, "I don't know how the spend their time" response. Who is the next interview subject, a ball of lint?

    Maybe we could interview JonKatz next. When I've emailed, he's always had something to say (doesn't he always?).

    I need lunch.

  • Erm, I think the Karma for +2 is quite a bit above +20... I seem to remember it being something like +23 or +27 (one of those two...).

  • Back in Black (Score:5)

    by datajosh ( 225740 ) <datajosh.gmail@com> on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:18AM (#407499)
    So, if CowboyNeal picks up stories that fall through the cracks, does that make him the Lewis Black of Slashdot?

  • an idea for CowboyNeal (Score:3)

    by tenzig_112 ( 213387 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:18AM (#407500) Homepage
    Randomly shuffle the order of posts (keeping parent/child in tact, of course). I would love to see "frist post" and "all your base belong to me" somewhere in the middle.

    my base don't belong to anyone else [slashdot.org]

  • Ummmm (Score:5)

    by OlympicSponsor ( 236309 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:20AM (#407501)
    "I know from our internal discussion lists and channels, that all of us are constantly reading the site, but as for a detailed breakdown, I'd have no idea where to start."

    "...I don't usually read comments attached to stories."

    No comment necessary, I think.
    --
    Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
  • It's not evasive. No one asked questions about Pater does - look at his response. He doesn't post stories, except GIS, he doesn't do the moderation system - he's the hands that keep the boxes updated, user accounts working and stuff like that. No one asked apropos questions.
  • ... or was that the BORINGEST interview ever. I mean, no offense to CoyboyNeal, but that was incredibly uninteresting. I think it was the quality of the questions that caused it. Those were just terrible.

    Now admittedly, I can't think of any BETTER questions, but c'mon, "What's your favorite pizza topping?" That is SO junior high.

    The only question there that I actually cared for was about the User Info Slashbox. That was good. The rest was just, well, blah.

  • I don't think it is odd that they don't post - if they did it would probably mess up the whole discussion (like that is possible) and we'd have moderator wars with their posts going up and down. There are too many raging fans out there!
  • In a way, they do post. They post the stories and the stories are frequently ammended with quips, thoughts, etc...
  • Randomly shuffle the order of posts [...]

    So, then, how might moderators easily tell what is *truly redundant* without checking the timestamps?

  • For the most wishy-washy answers of any /. interview, this interview has to take the prize.

    Either the cowboy has almost no sense of humour, culture, charisma or taste. Where's the wit? Where's the insightful, well thought out answers? Where's some additional information I couldn't get from a magic 8 ball? Where are the inside jokes to beowulf clusters, first posts or this week's net-meme, ALL YOUR BASES?

    Its my serious hope that our beloved cowboy has been out on a long binge, sampling every brew known to man and sampling as many delightful young ladies as humanly possible. And when he came to he ripped out those answers in 2.3 minutes chrono before the aspirin kicked in. Its the only excuse I'll accept.

    the AC

  • it's just his damn job (Score:4)

    by crudmonky ( 301152 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:27AM (#407508)
    How many of you enjoy going to work everyday? I'm sure CowboyNeal hates it just as much as you. You think he's really gonna be enthuastic about the crap he works on day in and day out? Come on, he doesn't care. He gets paid to do this, then goes home and thinks about (or tries to) anything but slashdot.

  • Re:Karma 50... (Score:4)

    by KjetilK ( 186133 ) <kjetil AT kjernsmo DOT net> on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:28AM (#407509) Homepage Journal
    Eh, well I guess I might be the most effective Karma Whore around. I got +1 bonus before I could moderate and I've been up to 50 for a while now but still I'm not eligible for meta-moderating. But, I can tell you, it does cap at 50, and there are no +2. :-)

    Seriously, I don't think I've karmawhored that much really. The only time I might have been karma whoring was that story Hemos posted about spammers getting jailed, that I submitted. It wasn't good.

    BTW, the 50 cap is a Good Thing [tm], if somebody has been karma whoring up to that point, it removes the incentive to continue karma whoring.

  • Karma is a game. (Score:3)

    by BilldaCat ( 19181 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:30AM (#407510) Homepage
    Like it or not, it is. It's not Slashdot's intention, but Karma IS viewed as a game here, and the fact that that bothers them makes the game even more fun.

    I'll probably lose my quarter here, but I'll continue later. :)
  • There's no way that was the real CowboyNeal answering those questions.

    I mean, come on. You're telling me that one of the main slashcode maintainers can't properly form HTML tags, and doesn't even know the karma level where the +1 bonus kicks in??

    Now that I think of it, I don't think there is a real CowboyNeal. I suspect he is a fictious person, or perhaps a bot, cooked up by Taco&Co. for use as a scapegoat when things go wrong with slashdot.

    I'm on to you, Rob! The slashdot users demand the truth!

    -the wunderhorn

  • it's a game here, but plastic.com just made it into a contest. http://www.plastic.com/karmacontest.pl
  • As long as I've visited /. (about 2 years now, not very long), I still haven't fully groked the roles each of you play. Sorry about that. Still, I did enjoy the interview.
  • Do you find it interesting that Slashdot is the Grand Queen Mother of all geek discussion forums, but most people that post are either deranged, suicidal, or know *way* too much about a topic? :-)
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I`m not at 50, i can meta mod. think you just have to go to a certain page - try http://slashdot.org/metamod.pl

  • I meant posting at 2, not having a +2 bonus... Maybe I should drink more coffee, then people would understand me.

    As for the +50 cap, it should be lower. Otherwise you just get to +50, then that's maybe a dozen comments you can post at 2 and get modded down for.

  • That would be "All you base are belong to us"... 2 points to whoever can post where the quote originates from...
  • Simple - remove `redundant` as an option. I never use it. Same for `overrated`. What does that mean? Is it supposed to refer to the comment, or is it a lame form of meta-moderation?
  • Maybe it's just me but from his answers he seems depressed or burnt-out. None of his answers are particularly enthusiastic.

    Could be that he wasn't that interested in answering the questions.

    Does CowboyNeal need a vacation?

    Anybody else get this vibe? Or am I just reading too much into his answers.

  • When I was in High School and Junior College, I used to publish a couple of 'zines (Well, Johnny, back then we had this thing called paper...) The way things would start out, it was "Hey I've got something to say." Eventually, publishing/editing/distributing/promoting becomes and end in itself, and the original purpose gets sidelined.

  • Yeah, you only need karma 1 to metamod. Once you go to the page it automatically sticks the link up for you, but until you've used it once you never see it, regardless of karma.

  • Well honestly, I sometimes wish Katz would follow suit and never post either. It's quite easy to hate a commercial icon who's disrupting an open community in order to gain attention. If he didn't have such a one-track bullshit capitalist mind, nobody would have noticed him.

  • +1 Bonus (Score:3)

    by drift factor ( 220568 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:42AM (#407524)
    Getting a karma above 20 allows one to post with a +1 bonus, and from there on there are no rewards.

    Hmm, unless it has quite recently changed, I'm pretty sure it's 25, not 20.

    No rewards after that? Being a karma whore is it's own reward! :)
  • But what makes you think he would have thought to write "BEGIN TRANSACTION" (or maybe it was "BEGIN WORK"?) before starting the whole mess?

    Especially if it's the first time you make a mistake like that..

  • This discussion has been going on for years, and it raises some interesting questions. Well interesting to me anyway.
    • Is it better to use a service as is, try to get the owners to improve it, or take the time to improve the code yourself?
    • Is it trendier to protect Slashdot from flames and intelligent criticism, or to criticize Slashdot for problems they either won't fix or don't have the resources to fix.
    • Do "Taco and the Andovers" not care about the site or do they work all day trying to maintain it and half the night trying to improve it?
    • Is "Pat" male or female? (Why does Pat always get into these lists?)
    • How long are you willing to continue reading Slashdot while you have a low opinion of it?
    • Will this community of geek subculture splinter off into hundreds of even smaller subcultures that replicate the site on to infinity?
    • How many users does it take to turn a community into a flaming pile of troll dung?
    • Won't someone think about the children?

    "Legitimate questions... no answers."
    -the Pedro Picasso

    --

  • Well, the guys that know *way* too much about a topic are the ones that usually make the smart comments about them, and the deranged/suicidal ones are usually the funny ones. The best ones are the deranged/suicidal/smart combos...
  • Yes, but only if he consumes enough caffeen that he can shake and freak out like Lewis Black does.
  • "and most CS majors were aware of Chips & Dips, and would read it regularly."

    What is Chips & Dips? Is it still published/updated?
    --
    Peace,
    Lord Omlette
    ICQ# 77863057
  • While I read this, the highest moderated comment says "Slashdot editors don't post" or something like that... Apparently they do read comments and occasionally post...

  • You don't have to start a transaction in Oracle. Of course then it might undo more than you expected, but I'd say that's better than restoring from a backup.

  • There is a much better picture of him right here. [slashdot.org]
  • Probably some little kids playing with GI Joe that didn't know how to speak in proper sentances.

  • Re:chips & dips (Score:5)

    by Hemos ( 2 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:51AM (#407534) Homepage Journal
    It was the progenitor of Slashdot, and was hosted on Rob's personal website at Hope College. It no longer exists.
  • Shouldn't they be checking the timestamps anyway?
    ISn't a moderators responsibility to do a good job and leave that $3 crack alone?

    Oh wait...nevermind...

  • Karma and posts (Score:4)

    by Belgand ( 14099 ) <(moc.ssertroftenalp) (ta) (dnagleb)> on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:54AM (#407536) Homepage

    I have to say that I find it rather odd how much karma and posting has taken over. I think most of this has to do with my view of slashdot. I mainly view it as a news site, never a discussion site. Kur5in I'll view as a discussion site.

    Why? Well, Slashdot tends to post news stories, lots of them. Bunches of links off to interesting or relevant stories pour across the main page every day and I either read about them and note it or follow the link and read the actual story. About the only time I ever click through is when there is a real story to be had with content. In this manner Slashdot is like memepool for news with a bit more insight tossed into the reports.

    Kuro5hin on the other hand I read less frequently. It's updated with new material every few days and most of what it has is short articles. Opinion pieces on recent events or mentions of the background and then analysis of it. The articles posted tend to be more conversation starters and topics rather than news.

    I realize that most people probably think Slashdot is wonderful the way it is right now, but personally I think that a greater emphasis on thier main content, news, would be better while lessening the impact that comments seem to have made.

  • Hmm... oddly enough CowboyNeal said that Karma above 20 means you post with an automatic +1, my karma (at the moment at least) is 24 and yet I've never posted with an automatic +1, just the standard score of 1 that every registered user gets. Who's right here and is there anything else that might contribute to this? I ask purely out of curiosity.
  • Nah, he just didn't want to do this. And the questions were totally not what he does.
  • "ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US" originates from the intro to a Sega Genesis game (also previously an arcade game) entitled "Zero Wing." It features the most inept Japanese-to-English translation in video game history.

    SOMEBODY SET UP US THE BOMB!

    ***
  • I don't see Slashdot as a discussion forum. It's more like a newspaper, with much of the editing done by a kind of electronic democrarcy. The posting and moderation system doesn't really encourage Usenet-style discussion. The result is a lot of informational posts. Most of the posters are opinionated as hell, but posts that are just opinions tend not to get modded up.

    The result is a site with a lot of useful, if somewhat random, information tidbits. Which is what keeps me coming back.

    __________________

  • Re:an idea for CowboyNeal (Score:4)

    by nosilA ( 8112 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:57AM (#407542)
    Both are useful - I use overrated for posts that I would qualify as "not funny" or "not interesting" but aren't really trolls or whatnot. Perhaps maybe there should be "not funny" and "not insightful" as moderation options, which can only counter an existing "funny" or "insightful." And I'd also like to see a "wrong" moderation, because sometimes posts sound nice and insightful, but they are just plain inaccurate.

    Redundant is for the 14th person in a row who says something because they clearly couldn't take the time to read the posts that are already there saying the exact same thing -- if someone said approximately what you said and you want to add something to it - respond to them, no need to start a new thread! At the same time, marking post #7 as "redundant" shows a lack of moderator responsibility.

    Another thing I'd like to see is an option to make "funny" not count as +1 (from a reader selection, of course). Because while sometimes I enjoy the humor in the funny posts, most of the time it's really lame and a waste of my time to read.

    -Alison, who is probably just a humorless bitch
  • We went over 300K of users about two weeks ago. The answer about the future is that we could easily (even today) handle the additional growth to 500K. At the moment its just an issue of adding memory to our databases.
  • Here's a great big group hug from all the kernel hackers! Keep up the good work you do here at Slashdot.

  • Re:Never posts... (Score:5)

    by JWhitlock ( 201845 ) <John-Whitlock@noSPaM.ieee.org> on Friday February 23, 2001 @09:59AM (#407545)
    No. When I first started, it was suprising. I haven't done a full study of the life-cycle of a slashdotter (post-cap), but I'll throw up my notes:

    1. Larval stage: After reading several references to Slashdot, or being pointed to it by a regular Slashdotter, the Larvae is exposed for the first time. Interesting - News for Nerds (I guess I'm a nerd), Stuff that matters (what's all this irrelevant Linux/BSD stuff?). Maybe he/she bookmarks it the first time, maybe some other time.
    2. First Post: The first post is probably an AC post. The person isn't sure yet, if they want to be a poster, what nick they want, what to do it their nick is taken, etc. Soon, they realize that their serious posts will never be seen if they don't post.
    3. First Mod Up: It's quite magical. Someone thought what you said was worth more people seeing! For a few weeks, you debate in your own mind whether it is better to be modded or to get a responce.
    4. Karma Whore: You are below the magic karma number, and you have to get up there. You learn the tricks. Phrases that the moderators like. Few or no spelling mistakes in the first paragraph. Lots of links. To the point, or long enough to look important. Very fast post, so the moderators see it first. You may even strike your first gold - a score of 5. You brown-bag lunch, so you can hunt for new stories during the lunch break. You submit any story remotely related to Linux or Microsoft. You are a whore, and you can't stop.
    5. Karma Kapped: Soon, your whoring pays off. You get the +1, and soon all your posts have that much more visibility. Your skills pay off, and the final sprint to 50 takes no time at all. Then, you are there. Where next?
    6. Slashdot Journeyman: The quest has been for karma - what now? Maybe more story submittals, but now you search for stories you found yourself, never ones from the AP wire or ZDNet (someone else has already done it). You grimace when a submitter did a terrible job on the story. You experiment as a troll, first as AC, then maybe with your prime account. You may start other accounts, if you still feel like whoring, or trying on another persona. You post when you feel passionate about a subject, or have something funny to say, or are just bored. You bitch about the editors, or trolls, or how it was "back in my day".
    7. Slashdot Master: You may still post, you may not. You read Slashdot to get up on the news. You are now an old man in the slashdot world, maybe a battle-scarred vetern, or a drunken merchant, or a mercenary. People look up to your User ID, but you brush it aside. You know many posters by their style, and laugh when Shoeboy or Urban Existentialist are up to their old tricks, but don't respond anymore.

    I'm at the Karma Kapped stage right now, so I'm guessing at the upper levels. The editors are busy keeping this baby running, and look on posting as something the community does. If they did post, we'd complain they were posting more than they were reading submittals, and we'd probably be right. Posting is fun, but I imagine it gets old after a few years.

    Feel free to tear up my analysis, add stages, whatever. I did it while eating my left-over chinese, during the lunch break...

  • Re:Most evasive interview yet! (Score:3)

    by Roblimo ( 357 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @10:00AM (#407546) Homepage Journal
    Not true!

    No Slashdot editors post comments, ever.

    - Robin
  • And not one of the options is "CowboyNeal".

  • I think you are right - I can't remember if mine kicked in at 25 or 30, but not 20.

  • How often have you posted anonymously?

    Cowboy Neal: Nope

    Syntax Error...
  • Wow, an editor speaks?
  • (Maybe I should e-mail this... I wonder if Hemos checks replies?)

    In the future, you might want to give us a clue of what CowboyNeal does do when asking for questions. A brief bio or something (like what he works on, his likes/dislikes, projects, whatever). I really know nothing about him (or much of the /. crew, really), and therefore couldn't think of any questions to ask him. Maybe if we knew more about him and what he does the questions would have been more in line with what he does - but since I really have no idea exactly what he does (other than "admins the site" which is overly vague - what does running Slashdot entail?[1]), I really have nothing to ask him.

    Except maybe that he pronounce his name with a hard A instead of with a soft A since it sounds too much like my last name, "Potter." (And no, I'm not interested in changing my first name to "Harry.")

    [1] Maybe I did have a question to ask... too bad I didn't think of it at the time of the interview!

  • "...I don't usually read comments attached to stories." is like...
    • General Motors saying, We don't usually drive the cars
    • Microsoft saying, We generally run linux in house, we haven't really used win2k.
    • McDonalds saying, We are all vegitarians.
    What Cowboy Neal really meant was, "VA linux should fire me right away because I'm a bumbling idiot."

  • Deleteing slash data (Score:3)

    by FattMattP ( 86246 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @10:10AM (#407553) Homepage
    That should bring me up to the "screw up" question, so I will now relate a story that showcases my stupidity. One day I was working on Slashdot's database, and cleaning up a lot of old database entries, when I suddenly realized I'd forgotten a "WHERE" clause in one of the SQL statements.
    Why didn't you just type 'rollback;' ??? Transactions make life easy.

  • "Karma Bores Me" (Score:3)

    by Rahoule ( 144525 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @10:11AM (#407554)

    I didn't expect any Nobel Prize material from the insights in this interview, but seriously, CowboyNeil dodged the first few questions faster than an MPAA lawyer in an indictment.

    Notice how he completely ducked the question on karma. A simple database query would bring back the answer in a flash, but instead he effectively tells us, "You don't need to know." Well, why else would someone ask the question!?

    I think CowboyNeal is toeing the Slashdot staff party line in a way here. In an interview on IRC, CmdrTaco was being repeatedly asked to remove the karma cap. He (naturally) declined, saying the usual stuff, "Karma is not a game, it's just a gauge of who would and wouldn't make a good moderator, etc. etc." Basically, they want us all to forget about our karma entirely and stop talking about it.

    Perhaps they didn't like they way Signal11 and Enoch Root managed to accumulate so much. I'm not sure why that was a problem.

    So, karma is not a game? We shouldn't care about our karma? Well, in that case, I don't really feel like making Insightful, Interesting, Informative, Funny, or Underrated comments on Slashdot anymore. Three points for submitting a story and getting it accepted? Who cares? Those are three karma points! We're not supposed to care about our karma, right? If I didn't know better, I'd just run around making Troll, Redundant, Overrated, Offtopic, or Flamebait posts.

    Anyway, feel free to moderate this any way you please. I'm not supposed to care about my karma.

  • You have to have had a user account for ~6 months to a year. I'm pretty sure I was allowed to metamoderate after six months of being a member, but it may have been longer. It's not tied to karma.
  • Ahh, but that's what makes CowboyNeal the legend that he is. His boringness is just a ruse for a much less interesting life. Hence the need to give him some joy in life by putting him as an option on most of the polls.

    I got voted for again, yeah! - CowboyNeal

  • Hey, is this some kind of sick deal wherein you guys are making Pater defend his job? He didn't ask to be interviewed on slashdot, so was he told to? Was he asked politely to do this? where there any dreadful implications to his refusing to? Who put him up to it? you? taco? roblimo???

    I notice the quip about how he 'dearly appreciates his generous paychecks'. Seems like grovelling of a very specific flavor... Are you perhaps forcing Neal to expose himself to this ridicule and debasement in order to drive him away?

    Is he the 20% your division has to axe?

    I was recently laid off and I know first hand how wretchedly the cowardly managers act when they have to make tough decisions. All of this is perfectly plausible considering the atmosphere you guys must be working under at this point. I will be extremely pissed with you guys if Pater is gone in a month or two...
  • Some of us have been around long enough that we've still got karma higher than that. My home account is at 71, for example.

    But, please note, you still get to post at +1 even at that level, so the only use is the ability to say what you want without excessive fear of being modded down to where it hurts your base karma.

  • Re:chips & dips (Score:4)

    by trog ( 6564 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @10:29AM (#407563)

    As an interesting look into Geek history, is it possible to resurrect this old site, for archival purposes? I'd be interested in seeing what it looked like.

  • REALLY boring comments. (Score:3)

    by sulli ( 195030 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @10:34AM (#407565) Journal
    Hey everyone: Your comments that CowboyNeal's answers are boring are the most boring comments I've seen in a while. So he doesn't read the comments every day - so what?! You don't have to read the comments every day to be Editor at Large - on the contrary, if that's all you did, you wouldn't have time to edit!

    Give the guy a freakin' break. Sheesh.

  • Bahaha, duh, they are on MySQL, No transactions, No rollback. At least they back up!

  • my habits (was: Re:Karma and posts) (Score:4)

    by otis wildflower ( 4889 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @10:36AM (#407567) Homepage
    I have to say that I find it rather odd how much karma and posting has taken over. I think most of this has to do with my view of slashdot. I mainly view it as a news site, never a discussion site. Kur5in I'll view as a discussion site.

    Strange, I find the discussions here much more informataining than the 'news' content.. I prefer The Register for my news coverage, since their writers are wittier and tend to spel correcly..

    Maybe I'm the bad guy, but I do read at a score of 1 or higher, newest first. I tend to not moderate or metamoderate, unless something's unusually funny or interesting.

    I check off the 'no +1' box unless it's something I really give a shit about or if I forget (making the 'no +1' box on by default would be smart IMO).

    Karma: it's a number. An interesting mechanism to keep people involved. A mild behavioral check. It really doesn't actually count for shit (like CN said: where do I redeem Karma for valuable cash prizes? or hell, maybe a /. mug or something?) but it's harmless fun. Hell, it's not even a high-score list!

    Karma Whoring: obnoxious, but _someone_ is spending mod points on it.. Whatever. People shooting for Karma are either preaching/pandering/whoring to the converted (and are easily revealed as doing so), providing an interesting counterpoint (where couching in 'mod me down, BUT..' is more offensive than just getting to the fucking point), revealing some truth about themselves or the community as they see it, or something that gets a laugh. Figure out which is which.

    Personally, I post what I think, behind the comfortable safety of a mildly-concealing pseudonym. I _am_ philosophically inline with the community, which is why I read this site in the first place, so that's no surprise. But I never woke up thinking 'gee whiz, how do I garner more karma today?'. I'm _happy_ to have found a like-minded community, because finding such a motley band in meatspace is remarkably difficult, and I'm happy to contribute where I can as I can.

    I mean geez, how much of this is not obvious? But it needed to be said at some point..

    Your Working Boy,
    - Otis (LICQ: 85110864)
  • As the owner/operator of a virtual community for over 10 years now (ob. ad: see the sig), I can tell you, it's a good thing that editors don't post.

    Posting by editors/admins/operators/etc. confuses the community. Most users are afraid to argue with the opinions of the folks in charge. Some people engage in simple pandering. The worst part is someone feels that the post reflects on the entire site, not just on one person. Sometimes people leave on that basis.

    I don't care if people disagree with me -- I want them to disagree with me, and to feel free to do so. But despite pointing that out time and time again, there were always users who would freak out at my posts and disappear shortly thereafter. So I forged a handle to post to my own site. That way I can be just another person posting, and people can disagree with me as much as possible.

  • Getting modded up and replied to is nice, but the karma thing is NOT a game, it's the internet's best way (thus far) of maintaining a large community.

    I don't agree. I think K5's system works a lot better...
    Karma is a game. You might not like to look at it that way, but many people do, and treat it as such.

    --K
  • I'd also like a moderation -1, poster either misread or totall misunderstood the article
  • I'm not so sure about the "wrong" mod - maybe if there was no karma attached. It seems obvious it should be used when someone gets the facts wrong, but some may think it means when someone's opinion is wrong. The proper responce to wrong facts is to post the correct facts, in an insightful, interesting, informative, or funny manner, with troll detection meter at 4. The proper responce to "wrong" opinions is to respond in a I/I/I/F manner, with the troll detection meter at 8.

    As for the rest, yeah, we may be able to use a few more categories, but I think the editors are against it. Funny/Not Funny would encourage moderator wars, where moderators fought over whether a comment was a 5, Funny or a 4, Not so Funny.

    It would also be nice to get some statistics on how many people actually loaded a page that included your comment. For instance, you could know that your comment that took an hour to compose was seen by 100 people and only 1 moderator, justifying the +1 score, or that your comment was seen by 20 moderators, and none liked it. It would really help the karma whores and trolls, and maybe the casual poster as well.

    And while we are dreaming, how about some feedback on submissions? Redundant? Bad Spelling? Thought about it, but no?

  • actually i think i got black listed. my karmas 25, and still no +1.

    It has to be over 25, I believe.
  • I guess you forgot to check the No Score + 1 Bonus box again, eh? :-)
  • I'm still not sure where I fit in this list. I've never been a karma whore, and I don't troll. But then again.. I just read /. to pickup on the news, read a few +4/5 funny posts, and if the mod points flow, do my part to make it easier to find interesting comments.

    maybe I just fell through the cracks of the typical /. user.

    Hmmm... maybe I have described the path of the Dark Side of the Force, and you are following the good path... or there is a stage before the Karma Whore, where you can decide whether to follow the Karma path or the way of Productivity at Work.

    Sounds like, with some research, we could make the Choose Your Own Adventure version of Slashdot membership...

  • Re:Never posts... (Score:5)

    by Matthew Weigel ( 888 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @11:12AM (#407579) Homepage Journal

    That path seems to presuppose that the person didn't already use Linux or BSD, and that being a Karma Whore and hence getting to Karma Kapped is a necessary step. It ain't; I've never seen the high end of 30 karma, and I never tried to get past 10 (all I ever wanted was to be able to be lose karma, to stupid posts or metamoderation, without going negative).

    It ignores the first moderation down; the poster will be indignant, that some stupid moderator lacked the intelligence to see the poster's comment for all its glory. Eventually, the poster gets used to the fact that the quality of the moderators is proportional to the quality of the posters, and that the worst moderators are almost as bad as the worst posters.

    It also ignores the progression of a moderator, who is necessarily a poster as well:

    1. The poster gets moderator access the first time. This is frequently a magical experience, and each moderation up or down gets a lot of consideration.
    2. The poster gets complacent about moderator access; moderation becomes as much a spur of the moment response in annoyance or agreement with another poster, as a well-reasoned consideration of the value of posts relative to what has been posted.
    3. As a result, the moderator loses karma to metamoderation: this is frequently a nasty surprise, since your karma goes down without any kind of notice. The poster begins to wonder 'what did I moderate wrong?' and begins to constantly second-guess moderation.
    4. The poster realizes that the quality of the meta-moderators are also proportional to the quality of the posters, and so the quality of the meta-moderation can only be marginally better than the quality of the posts.
    5. The poster decides to stop moderating, because to moderate is to lay your Karma bare before the idiots of Slashdot in an untraceable way.
    6. The poster goes back to moderation, finally realizing that gaining or losing Slashdot Karma is largely irrelevant to life, and that good moderation helps to improve the quality of Slashdot -- that is, the better the posters moderated up, the better quality of the moderators and meta-moderators, and hence the better quality of the entire system.
  • Karma does matter.

    I wouldn't know how to measure it, but I bet a good percentage of all Slashdotters make their best effort to post good comments to get some karma points. You know why? because it's fun. yes, this IS a game, and in my book, everything is.

    Sure, the main motivation behind most posts is to share your thoughts, but if I have instant feedback on what people think of what I write, AND i can keep track of that feedback in a measureable manner, what you have is a VERY fun game to play.

    A good deal of the success of slashdot is owed to Karma points. I used to care about it a lot. After the cap, I got to open my eyes and realize what Slashdot's real value was, the news, and stopped caring about posting or letting others know my thoughts. Now I rarely post, only when i feel too passionate about a subject or don't have much else to do. I don't find time to write comments anymore, and I'm afraid others will open their eyes eventually and slashdot will be no more. I'll have to go back to the more traditional ways of getting news: the other's websites where people either don't have a comment option, or don't have enough motivation to comment.

    I think karma is a great MARKETING (uuuuuh!) tool for slashdot but they refuse to use it. Not sure why though.

  • Re:chips & dips (Score:3)

    by feidaykin ( 158035 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @11:14AM (#407581) Journal
    On CmdrTaco's site, there's a screenshot of an Enlightenment theme that he made. In the image is a Netscape window displaying the "Chips & Dips" page. If you want to see what it looked like, the link is: http://cmdrtaco.net/linux/images/flaunt_82397.jpg
  • CowboyNeal, you're the wind beneath my wings; the father I never had. Of course, I guess that would make you the kind of father who sleeps around, left my mother before I was born, and didn't even know I existed...but you're still l33t.

    Hail, CowboyNeal!
  • I don't really care about the other types of annoying posts much, but the rush of "first lamers" has always seemed silly.

    What they could do is simply block posting from AC's until there is one post from a real user. Then the first post at least has a chance of being sort of interesting, and people might actually take the time to read stories instead of just blasting off a response.

    Another possiblity would be to limit the ratio of AC to non-AC posts for the first ten posts or so, but I don't think it would really do that much.

    Still another idea is to delay AC posts by five minutes or so.

  • Karma (Score:3)

    by RandomPeon ( 230002 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @11:15AM (#407586) Journal
    Regarding Karma, I agree. It really doesn't matter a hoot, and 'Karma Whores' appear to be a thing of the past with the advent of the Karma Cap. However, it really would be better for /. if Karma were invisisble to the user, that way the pointless competitive aspect would not occur.

    Karma is worthless yet meaningful. Money is an abstraction, and it motivates people to do all kinds of things, partly because it has real value and partly because it's money. You can never have enough money. Karma is like money without tangible value value - it's karma and nothing more - it's the ultimate abstract reward for contributions. It's amazing how much people will do to change an integer value on a server somewhere.

    Oh no! We're trapped in Kuro5hin! We're gonna spend the rest of the year talking about how to change the submission process, the comment process, the moderation process, what color the site logo should be, and how many angels can post comments simultanenously.

  • ...good fucking riddance.

    I see why you call yourself "Rudeboy777".

    The system is in place to promote and maintain intelligent discussion..

    And should I consider "good fucking riddance" part of intelligent discussion?

    ...it's the Internet's best way (thus far) of maintaining a large community.

    I'm sure you meant "it's Slashdot's best way...".

    Getting modded up and replied to is nice, but the karma thing is NOT a game.

    Well, for better or for worse, it has become a game to many Slashdot readers and contributors. I find it contradictory that the Slashdot staff want you to forget about karma but at the same time, they reward you with karma for having stories accepted (which is another game in itself), give you rewards for having high karma (+1 bonus), and penalize you for low karma (posts starting at 0 or -1).

    As far as I know, karma is a feature of every Slash-based site. Slashdot probably doesn't want karma to be a game, but you should see what another Slash-based site is doing [plastic.com]. I don't agree with you about karma not being a game, but I'm sure you can agree with me that what that site [plastic.com] is doing takes it way too far!

  • Cut him a break man... (Score:4)

    by RogueAngel7 ( 250551 ) <RogueAngelSeven&gmail,com> on Friday February 23, 2001 @11:42AM (#407593)
    So far I've read a lot of posts saying how boring CowboyNeal is or how lame he is, and I just want to know...

    What did you expect?

    SuperPowers? (i can see it now, a big L on his chest and hes Linux Man!)

    Mad 70 hour hacking binges against Microsoft?

    Stories of his brave adventures in outer space, or his wonderous trips to the bottem of the ocean?

    You say boring I say busy. Supporting a website of this size/readership takes many people and LOTS of time.

    He said he spends half his day clearing out his inbox, and probably the other half Supporting /. for all of our sorry arse's. No big supprise that is isn't really that excited to talk about his job and /. karma, and so on. Its what he has to deal with ALL DAY. I mean, if you work in a pizziaria, you get sick of pizza fast.

    Im wondering exactly how exitcing all of the Lame/Boring post writers are themselves.

    Anyway, no offense to all of you, but give the guy a break.

    RAL
    -

  • Underware (Score:4)

    by waters ( 78738 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @12:02PM (#407595)
    I'm surprised no one asked the question:

    So what is it?
    ( ) Boxers
    ( ) Briefs
    ( ) Commando
    ( ) CowboyNeal

  • I think everybody's bothered because if CowboyNeal is just some boring guy with a boring job, then the same holds true for all the readers. If CowboyNeal isn't special - even though he's famous and l33t - then maybe the rest of us aren't hot shit either. Our idol has clay feet, and that's definitely worth whining about.

  • I am always looking at my user info page, but not too see my karma, I want to see if anyone has responded to me or felt that what I said was worthy of one of their moderator points (and I don't care much which way they moderate me, I post what I want to say safe in the knowledge that it will take a lot of negative moderation to lose my ability to post at two). I read /. to get an overview of news items and to read the ideas it inspires in the /. community. I post to /. to try and inspire debate, advocate my point of view, find out if I'm wrong, be funny or refute rubbish. I moderate on /. to try and find -1/0/+1 posts which are worthy of being treated more seriously. I meta-moderate occassionally because it takes too much effort generally, when I'm bored I hit that link and try to see if anyone was being mad.

    Treating karma as a game means that people who see /. as a forum will leave slowly but surely leaving nothing but trolls and karma whores

  • You said: "I mean, if you work in a pizziaria, you get sick of pizza fast."

    CowboyNeal said: "I don't know if I have a favorite pizza topping. I used to work at a pizza place when I was in high school, and learned to like almost every pizza topping there is, even anchovies."

    You, sir, picked the worst possible example!
    Even so, I agree 100%

    Morel
  • Why didn't you just type 'rollback;' ??? Transactions make life easy.

    How exactly would 'rollback' fix the transaction after it has been committed?

    On the other hand, a better RDBMS would let you step back through transaction log backups...
  • Pretty damn close, excepting the "Moderator" stage, where you suddenly have all of this power and try to use it wisely.

    You have to lower your reading level from +3 so you can see all of the posts to start moding some of them up. You weigh the decision: post, or moderate? for each discussion. You feel dismayed that the really crappy troll posts never show up when you have moderation points, cause you'd love to smack down some of the crap that sometimes makes it up to your usual reading level.

    -m

  • Gee, and to think I've been posting comments and submitting stories ideas all this time because I wanted to share with the community. I knew I was doing something wrong.

  • Ironic that most people talk about the karma capping. I suppose i got sort of confused about reading the Karma Capping stuff on the FAQ because, at the time, my karma was over 100 (don't ask, i have no idea).

    lately it's been dropping like a rock whether i get modded up or down, but i'm still at 54. Maybe this'll get fixed when bender is released.

    BTW - you forgot the kuro5hin stage :P and the "God damn, will Signal 11 just shut the fuck up for a minute" stage.


    FluX
    After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
  • There are a lot of high scored comments that start with phrases like "I will probably lose my karma with this opinion, but nevermind". If the main objective of Slashdot is to exchange opinions, why do some people feel guilty when they write intelligent things? This democratic system is becoming a demagogy.

  • Re:Slashdot in 5-10 years? (Score:3)

    by Inoshiro ( 71693 ) on Friday February 23, 2001 @07:24PM (#407637) Homepage
    K5 innovative? Maybe. We still don't have a lot of the features which the Slash code base has. At the same time, we have a lot of features they don't have. If K5 had been first, would you call it innovative to have a closed story submission queue which allowed much stronger steering of content on the site?

    When you say people migrate from slashdot to Kuro5hin, you make it sound like it's one way. /. is all about your quick fix for news -- K5 can't ever replace that. I get news from here. Just filter out the bs (score below +3 mostly :)), and everything's fine. K5 is an addition, not a replacement, to the online weblogs.

    Kuro5hin -- we're not the anti-slashdot!
    --
  • It isn't good, it isn't bad. I wasn't here for the real early phase, but it hasn't changed much since I got my UID.

    Sure, we gained the ability to exclude Katz from our custom homepages, moderation was extended from the tiny cadre to the masses, metamoderation was invented, and karma caps were born. And /. went from a self-supporting org to a commercial entity.

    But the essence, the types of stories and the types of comments, has not changed. And if it didn't change much during the factor of 40 increase from 7681 to 307240, why should it change much from 307240 to 12,289,600?

    Steven E. Ehrbar

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