Legoland Introduces Wi-Fi Tracking for Kids

mindless4210 writes "Lego announced today the successful deployment of a full-scale child-tracking system within Legoland Billund in Europe. The tracking system, deployed by Bluesoft, Inc and KidSpotter, allows park visitors keep track of their children using one of the world's largest Wi-Fi tracking networks. The children must wear a wrist band with a Wi-Fi tag on it, and if they become separated, parents simply send a text message from their mobile phone, and receive an automated response giving them the accurate location of their child."

Privacy Concerns

The AeroScout Location System [bluesoft-inc.com] can locate the tags which I believe is in use with Lego's Kidspotter Wi-Fi tracking watch [lego.com]. The tag itself [bluesoft-inc.com] seems to be very small. Privacy concerns, anybody?

Re:Privacy Concerns

Does your 8 year old need alot of privacy at Legoland? What would they be doing which would warrant the parents not knowing where they are?

Re:Privacy Concerns

At Legoland?
Seriously? What could an ADULT do at Legoland that would require privacy?

This works only WITHIN THE GROUNDS at Legoland.

Re:Privacy Concerns

OK, you're right :). Until all cities have one wifi connection covering it, not much of a privacy concern- but just to clear up something:
it doesn't only work at legoland. this page [bluesoft-inc.com] says that "Bluesoft's Aeroscout(TM) wireless LAN location system is a novel technology platform that location-enables a standard Wi-Fi wireless network". So even if you have the tag and the location system, it would only work within a Wi-Fi connection (and that's ANY wi-fi area, NOT just legoland's)

Re:Privacy Concerns

I see what you mean, scary stuff. "Excuse me sir, but could you put on this wristband? Perfectly innocent, I assure you." Then the hapless fool walks away, oblivious to the fact that, as long as he stays within range of the Legoland WiFi system, some nefarious evildoer can track his every move. Creepy.

Re:Privacy Concerns

Privacy concerns, anybody?

None what so ever. You pay to borrow a bracelet, don't want it - don't rent it. And you hand it over when you leave. Only thing someone can do is track the kid while in the park, and usually most of the kids are with their parents. There are hardly anything underhanded you can do in an amusement park anyway.

Re:Privacy Concerns

I see no privacy concerns at all. I fact I think this is the PERFECT application for this type of technology that keeps the Tinfoil hat crowd up all night:

-It doesn't work everywhere, only in the park
-It's temporary
-You have to opt in
-It's actually useful

The only drawback is that someone who is already a "Bad Parent" might use this as an opportunity to not keep an eye on their child.

Re:Privacy Concerns

Okay. Let me make sure I've got this. Some anonymous paedophile may track some random unique identifier through the park from some great distance. As a parent, I'd be much more concerned with a paedophile using the decidedly low-tech approach of actually following my kid around.

And if you're worried about said paedophile cracking the (presumably) secure system to somehow tie a unique braclet ID to a person, I'd be more worried about said cracker breaking into the billing system and getting the credit card data I used to buy the tickets.

As the parent said, the biggest risk is that some negligent parents will decide that such a system obviates the need to actually keep an eye on their kid. As the saying goes, if you make it idiot-proof, someone somewhere will just build a better idiot...

Re:Privacy Concerns

Eh?? Wouldn't a Paedophile follow their target around waiting for a moment of parent's in-attention? How would knowing the coordinates help this? Besides the parents could always register their cell phone numbers upon entry to the park. Not to mention only the parents are going to have their childId to lookup the location.

See my sig for why I think this kind of paranoia about technology is rediculous.

Re:Privacy Concerns

Doesn't this just provide paedos with a free kiddie tracking system?

Yes, because otherwise, kids are so hard to find at LEGOLAND

Re:Privacy Concerns

Privacy concerns? Not really. Paedophile concerns? Yes.

It's posts like this that will probably bring to life a new abbreviation:

RTFP: Read The F---ing Post

I mean, sheesh. I can understand not RTFA but not even reading the text in front of you?

Perhaps, when you post, there should be a "I'm feeling lucky" option where your post is inserted randomly into any article that's currently on the home page?

Where's my wife?

That'll come next :)

Re:Where's my wife?

And why would you need that? If I lost one of my ex-wives in Legoland or whatever theme park, I'd drive away just as fast as I could!

Re:Where's my wife?

Where's my wife?
That'll come next :)

Only in Soviet Russia. In America, the wife keeps track of YOU!

Re:Where's my wife?

This one is easy... at the mall!

Opps.

Where's my wife?

Sorry. Lost track of time. I'll have her home by 8:00 PM.

Re:Think of the children!

You wouldn't want just anything being able to instantly locate your kids would you?

Yeah, because eyes don't usually work that well.

Low tech alternative:

A leash.

Re:Low tech alternative:

Damn, I hate that. It just seems so... derogatory.

A couple times I've seen a mother with a kid on a leash, and I've asked her if the kid knows any tricks. Every time I got a dirty look. I guess some people don't like to be reminded of their bad parenting habits.

Giving kids IP addresses

Oh great. We're now giving kids IP addresses so their parents can ping them. What it going on now?

Excuse me while I compile IPv6 on my systems. We need it now.

Re:Giving kids IP addresses

Oh great. We're now giving kids IP addresses so their parents can ping them. What it going on now?

Actually it's more like a

traceroute lil-johnny

cause a ping is only going to tell you if he's alive, not where he is ;)

Re:Giving kids IP addresses

But that's only if there's a route to the kid. If a router goes down somewhere it could look like the kid is dead.

Police: "I'm sorry. I can't ping your son. I'm afraid he may be dead."

Mother faints. Father starts crying.

Police: "Oh wait. There it goes. A router just went down in seattle for a few seconds. I hope I didn't scare you. Say, is your wife OK?"

Peace of mind

Wow, this sound like a great idea. The peace of mind for parents is great. Not to mention not having to use one of those horrible Child Leashes [google.com] that make it look like you are taking your child for a walk.

Re:Peace of mind

If you're scared that he might be kidnapped, just teach him to cry in the loudest way possible, it's very easy.

You've never been the parent of a toddler, huh?

I've never put mine on a leash, but I can think of some situations in which it would have been the best, safest thing to do. Some times and places you get tired of carrying him, but it's too crowded to put him down (trust me, a two- or three-year-old can move through a dense crowd a *lot* faster than a grownup can), and he's not tall enough to make holding hands workable unless you enjoy walking like Quasimodo, and strollers are just intolerably rude in a crowd. A leash, held short enough not to tangle up with other people, is sometimes the most practical option there is.

That said, I don't get the people who put 6-year-olds on leashes. *That* just looks wrong. A toddler doesn't have the impulse control to keep from running off after things and forgetting your instructions, but an older kid really ought to be able to.

Re:Peace of mind

My only problem with this is the tendency some people have to rely on technology. In other words, I'm afraid some parents will think that they don't have to watch their children because the tracking device will do that for them.

But that's a problem with people, not the technology.

Re:Peace of mind

Good point. I can see it now:

parent frantically types out SMS message on cel phone, waits in agony for response...

Your child is currently: squashed underneath rear left tire of delivery truck.

Re:Peace of mind

And it has the added bonus that Lego can know exactly how long children spend in each area of the park, what to concentrate on in their ads, what to rip out if its underperforming, etc..

Not that thats a reason not to track kids. I just think its a 'side effect'.

Re:Peace of mind; carelessness? liability?

The peace of mind for parents is great.

Which may be precisely the problem. "Peace of mind" causing parents to be inattentive, incautious, and careless. And when the systems goes down, as it inevitably will? Will there be civil liability, or will the parents have to sign a waiver of liability when they rent the wrist band for their child?

When the system goes down, will a child be lost, kidnapped, hurt, etc. that otherwise would not have been because his parents relied on the system instead of knowing that they, and only they were responsible for keeping track of their child?

Perhaps the analogy is a bad one, but this reminds me a bit of the problem national parks are having with people who *rely* on GPS and/or their cell phones to keep them out of trouble. No wilderness or outdoor skills, no ability to use a compass or read a map, and half of the time no jacket. But they figure as long as they have their cell phones, they'll be ok. And when they can't get reception, the battery goes dead, or they drop it.....

Tracking implications

[this is reasonably political - feel free to ignore]

Whereas this is bound to be a 'good thing' (the cry 'child in trouble' is just about the most instinct-driven response any adult has), the signature is somethinng to be wary of.

Consider that analysis of people-in-crowds is pretty easy these days. Consider that tracking (after positive analysis) is again reasonably simple (I was doing it 15 years ago - the key is to track in feature-space (region features: circularity, RGB, connectivity, 1st- and 2nd-order parameters) rather than just using image intensity. Using relations between features gives you context and thus more contextual information).

Consider that if you can track individuals within crowds, and given a covert surveillance system (eg: London, UK) you can track indivduals from locality to locality. You can start to (automatically) build circles-of-trust where individuals who meet regularly are automatically associated.

Consider that biometric information is now being put forward (eg: fingerprints, DNA samples, Iris scans, head ratios (eye:nose:chin parameters) and other observable information) and encoded within a compulsory identity card

Consider the amalgamation of this automatic identification, automatic relation of associates, and automatic recognition of individuals. Consider the implications. And yet a "Labour" government (the "People's" party!) is putting this forward in the UK.

I am fortunate. I am planning to emigrate this year to the US from the UK - previously I thought the UK (despite the lack of consitution) had a reality more responsive to the people and their ideals than the US. No more. I am one of the lucky ones that Joseph "Blunkett" Stalin will have no hold over. I feel deeply for my erstwhile compatriots. Freedom, after all, is a state of mind, and mind control is a tool of (this UK) government.

Simon.

Re:Tracking implications

Both political (which is fine), and as far as I can tell, completely off topic :) But that's Slshdot.

As someone who recently did the same move from UK to US - if you value your privacy this really is not the place to come. It starts when the Immigration official takes your photo and fingerprint, and just goes downhill from there. I'm not saying the UK is great, but things like identity theft are much easier and more rife here, and there no useful data protection laws meaning companies share all their data about you. You would be happier I think somewhere like the Netherlands.

Just my 2p.

well...

Well, it's about time for kids to start wearing tinfoil hats.

Well,,

Its a nice step up from the Leash that some mothers seem to employ upon thier crying 5 year olds.

I wonder how they'll get a wifi tracker out of a kids stomach?

Thats where some of my sisters lego ended up.

That's a little low-tech sounding.

It shouldn't just give the location of the child. For a lot of people, that's totally useless. Most people couldn't tell you the difference between latitude/longitude and UTM coordinates. Instead, it should guide them to their child... let the parents page through instructions. Not only would this be more useful for them, they could get charged by the page, so our corporate overlords should be pleased as well (afterall, reuniting a parent and child isn't satisfying enough).

Secondly, what ever happened to Darwinism? The lost children should starve and/or form their own feral societies. Only the best would survive to re-enter society, hopefully as very productive, since they'll have lots of useful skills.

Lastly, where the hell are all the wolves? Aren't they supposed to take care of the lost children?

First post? I doubt it...

The good news is...

...you get to put it together first!

Biggest Customer:

Michael Jackson

They are late

Tivoli Gardens in Copenhagen has already installed that a month ago, and before them another park in Jutland - so they are a bit late :)

Have parents really gotten that lazy?

We plop kids in front of TVs and now we let them run around amusement parks alone? Yes, I understand that this is probably intended for kids who get away from their parents, but you know some parent is going to sit somewhere with a laptop tracking their kid and not actually keeping an eye on them. I'm horrified.

~~Guildencrantz

Re:Have parents really gotten that lazy?

We plop kids in front of TVs and now we let them run around amusement parks alone?

What do you think kids were doing before TV? Sitting in the living room watching the cat, while Dad read the newspaper and Mom (in tasteful, frilly dress, of course) cooked dinner?

I was a kid in the '70s, and my friend and I went out to the "forest" (really just an overgrown bluff) and tried to melt crayolas over a pile of matches. When we were in second grade. And we did similar things, none of which were under the watchful eyes of our parents -- though I suspect other parents were watching, back in the days before everyone moved their driveways to the back of the house and put up 10-foot-tall privacy fences.

Taking away the TV is only part of the solution to the problem you've almost uncovered. The other part of giving childhood back to our kids is to let them *have* their childhood. That means we have to let go, sometimes -- something that's harder to do, now that all the neighbors have their blinds drawn out of paranoid fear of the "unknown".

Now that we've moved out to the country, with eight acres of land and neighbors that keep an eye out, God only knows what my second grader and his friends are getting into. But I think my boy will be the better for it.

Surprisingly, a good idea

I'm normally opposed to this sort of thing, but in a place like a theme park this sounds great. Assuming that the tag could be hired from the theme park, you need only use it while you are there.

When you are in a place which the parent or the kid knows reasonably well, you can easily arrange a good meeting place if you get seperated, and the kid has a reasonable chance of finding it. OTOH, most people only go to a theme park occasionally: even if you do decide on a meeting place, you could easily get lost en route to it.

It could also help if the child is with the other (custodial) parent: the first parent can quickly check whether other parent is still queueing for a ride, or has gone onto designated meeting spot. Dh and I have tried using mobiles, but as dh's mobile is his work phone he is too likely to get work related calls for it to be particularly useful on his day off.

Heh.

Considering that children don't usually wander far away from their parents, it would be reasonable to assume that where the child is, the parents also are.

Thus this is a nice way to get parents to consent to having their motions tracked as they move throughout Legoland, under the guise of helping "the children."

Imagine it... If you had a giant database of people's movements as they go through the park, you can more strategically position the food vending carts, move the rides and displays around in order to maximize the "candy aisle effect," etc.

Re:Heh.

don't you think they already have this information? Perhaps it's not as high tech, but certainly they have to know which routes are the most heavily traveled, which rides/attractions are the most visited, etc. Simply by how often the trash recepticles are filled, or how much waste is swept up will give you an idea how popular an area is. and that's incredibly low tech. How about line lengths at rides or how much business each food stand does in a day?

There are hundreds of ways they can track how heavily traveled areas are and none of them involve tracking devices. The idea that this child tracker will somehow give them more info seems a little exaggerated.

Re:Heh.

The idea that this child tracker will somehow give them more info seems a little exaggerated.

Not at all exaggerated. Like you said, they can already track mass usage patterns in various ways. But now they can track where you go, personally.

You get all kinds of great things out of that. "People who eat hamburgers don't tend to ride the Crazy Lego Ship. Maybe it makes them feel sick? We should put less mayo on the burgers." Or perhaps people who shop in store XYZ don't tend to also shop in store ABC. Perhaps there is too wide an array of popular items in XYZ -- leading people to forgo any further shopping. This tells you you should move some of the popular items from store XYZ over to store ABC, and hike up all the prices a little bit. Since people arent' buying as much per location, they are less likely to notice a 3% price hike.

Maybe you find that people who walk past a certain ride are more likely to want to buy ice cream. This leads you to put more ice cream stands in that location. Maybe you're asking "Why the hell would a particular ride cause people to want ice cream?" Believe me, the company doesn't care why, but they'll sure as hell cash in on it.

The only reason you can't think of uses for this is because you (obviously) aren't the one getting paid to do it.

Re:Heh.

Perhaps there is too wide an array of popular items in XYZ -- leading people to forgo any further shopping. This tells you you should move some of the popular items from store XYZ over to store ABC, and hike up all the prices a little bit.

It seems like you are really struggling to come up with reasons why this is a bad thing. (Even if you could somehow imagine that this system would give them more information about shopping habbits - you know those credit cards people tend to use nowadays?)

If walking past a particular ride makes me want icecream, hell, I want there to be an icecream stand nearby.

So, you go to their park, pay them money for the entertainment they provide, but somehow it's nefarious of them to more accuratly measure what the hell it is you want?

You are at their park, you wan't what they are selling, you are not somehow bucking the system by getting extra mayo on your burger before going the the Crazy Lego Ship.

Re:Heh.

" Considering that children don't usually wander far away from their parents, it would be reasonable to assume that where the child is, the parents also are."

Hahaha! Hohoho! Heeheehee!

You don't have kids, do you?

You know....

for kids!

mallrats

Reminds me of a scene from Mallrats

I hope his pants get caught and a bloodbath ensues.
What is with you today ?

I don't wish the kid harm, but his mother should suffer that horrific ordeal...

So she'll learn how to manage her child !
Sort of a harsh lesson.

Man, there's not a year goes by...

That I don't read about some escalator accident involving some bastard kid...

That could've been easily avoided had some parent-- I don't care which one--

But some parent conditioned him to fear and respect that escalator !

Though these WiFi Trackers do sound like a good idea, maybe if the parents kept a good eye on their children, the need for these trackers could be avoided.

Accurate location?

>"...giving them the accurate location of their child."

Actually, it will give them the location of the wristband.

This doesn't belong at 2.4GHz...

The biggest problem I see is that this service is subject to a perfectly legal denial of service if anybody were to flood the place with any other WiFi signal...

That's the advantage that licensed frequencies have, they'd could be jammed, but then the jammer would be transmitting without a license and in trouble. Here the DOS wouldn't quite be covered by that.

If I were a kid...

I'd gnaw off the wrist band and flush it down the toilet. The ensuing search in the sewer system by rescue teams should prove amusing...

Switching bands?

I wonder how hard the wristbands would be to remove?
What's to stop kids from switching their wristbands?

I can't imagine being unable to find my kid, tracking him down, and finding some other kid instead.

Moving target

Unless little Wally realises they are lost and has been reduced to tears, knowing where they are this instant will be useful for only a few seconds. I'm sure the mobile phone company is gleefully aware of this.

Why not fit the rugrats with something like those electric dog collars? If their squeals exceed X decibels or they move more than Y metres from their parent, they receive a little reminder from the collar... >:-)

And the first response is geeky...

My first thought was, "What, a CF card on each kid with a little microcontroller where you have to cha[r|n]ge the batteries every day?"

Then I looked at the website for the tags - 5 years worth of service, regular MAC address, only transmits occasionally, never receives.

Way geeky, I think. I'd like to know what kind of 802.11 packet they're transmitting!

Then I read the comments. Are all you guys privacy geeks, or what? What happened to all the "Cool technology! How'd they do that? etc" comments, consequences be darned (as in fixing holes in socks)

Ah well. So much for *real* geeks.

-Adam

Gee, when I was a kid...

... I was more concerned with acurately tracking all of my lego pieces!

Tunnel Vision

"Ok Billy just stay withing 30-40' of the access point and wear this Wi-Fi tracking bracelet at all times so I know where you are!"

Solution looking for a problem, anyone?

Will this locate the TV remote?

Because if it does, they've got my money.

I remember seeing this in a film once

And if the kid walks outside the park boundary... kaboom! Right?

OH MY GOD!

The Tag can be mounted in many different ways on a variety of assets, including the use of double-sided tape, screws and straps.

Tape??? Screws??? Straps???? My kid isn't getting with a hundred miles of these guys. Nobody screws a wifi tag to my kid!
-russ

Security will surely be a top priority.

I'm certain that Lego will take security into strong consideration with this system. I am certain they will ensure that preditors of children will not be able to hijack the system and locate your kids as effectively as you can. Afterall, strong cryptographic authentication will be used and identifications will be universally unique, or some other such mechanisms will be in place... right?

i hear kidnapping is all the rage these days...

... and I can see a high-tech ransom outfit using this data to know where one certain child would be for quicker in-and-out kidnapping. Or knowing when that child might have been separated from it's protecive older siblings.

Or how bout this: 5-year-old son of European royalty is playing at legoland, taken out by a sniper from a huge distance based on his location from an SMS query to their wristband system...

OK, I'm being dystopian, and hopefully the crypto on those wristbands is bulletproof, but if the potential is there it will be abused and to think otherwise is naive.

Re:Hey maybe you shouldn't loose the child in the

I take it you haven't been in a place like that with 4 kids.
Gutless AC.