Slashdot Log In
Doom Archive Reopened
Posted by
michael
on Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:55 PM
from the boom-click-click-boom-click-click dept.
from the boom-click-click-boom-click-click dept.
Obiwan Kenobi writes "Computer game history buffs rejoice: Lee Killough's Doom Archive has been reopened at John Romero's site. Its been offline since 1998, when it was handed to Romero to look after, and has finally resurfaced. The info inside is priceless, if a bit Romero-centric, but who can deny the nostalgia of downloadable alpha versions, beta screenshots (complete with wild health meters) and the original Doom Press Release where the game tagline reads "Doom-the sanest place is behind a trigger.""
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
What a great caretaker (Score:3, Funny)
Oh, how reassuring.
for the uninitiated... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:for the uninitiated... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:for the uninitiated... (Score:4, Funny)
Why Doom Sucks. (Score:4, Interesting)
It has done more to ruin the state of game playing than any game in history.
For those of you who were around playing games 10 years ago and longer, have the best chance have understanding why this is. Lets recap:
So what do we have today?
We have fantastic hardware and storage capacity. We have incredibly elegant graphic and AI algorithms that make the gaming experience itself very compelling. The advent of Doom was the first truly compelling real-time 3D engine. And it was precisely at that time that gaming has gone down hill. What Doom did for gaming in a positive way (fast rendering engines) it did as much or more in a negative way (dark, repetitive, single-minded (mindless) activity).
And because of the popularity and thus (financially lucrativness) of Doom we've now had to suffer hundreds of mind-numbing shoot-em-up games since. The overwhelming majority of games on the shelves today, are first-person action games where killing is the primary activity. This isn't so bad, if it weren't for the very depressing worlds, that this mayhem takes place in. Have you ever noticed that all the worlds these games take place in our DARK, DANK, and DYSTOPIAN??
People might counter and say what about Myst, or SIMS, or the Star Wars and Star Trek franchises. Well Myst is an exception, but whatever happened to the old-fashioned adventure games? Even the Star Trek and Star Wars gaming franchises have succumbed to the Doominization of gaming. So now you can be a starfleet office whose primary duty is to kill as many bad evil aliens as possible! Whoopee! Or be some variation of a Jedi whose primary mission is to kill as many bad guys as possible. And sure enough all of these killing sprees take place in dark, dank, and depressing settings.
Ok, so what I am proposing?
Bring back the adventure games!!! We have all of the hardware and software algorithms now to make adventure games light-years beyond what was available with Ultima 7 or Zork, etc. Not only could we have far-out sci-fi, fantasy adventure worlds, but also we could explore these worlds in first person 3-D now. We could even throw in some real-time shoot-em-ups to spice it up. Why can't we have a game that combines the best of the spirit of true adventure games with the best of the shoot-em-ups?
Imagine a game, where there are hundreds of planets to explore. All of these planets are unique and compelling. Some of these worlds would have alien civilizations or spaceports and colonists, others would be hostile to life. On each of these worlds, lies mysteries waiting to be explored - pieces of a large puzzle that need to be solved. Perhaps we could just explore these worlds as part of a larger strategy of building our characters like we would in traditional RPG. And of all of this exploring could take place in full-immersion real-time 3D. And why oh why, can't we have worlds that are both compelling and beautiful and inspiring to look at?
Has anyone else noticed? Perhaps this is why I have not bought a single PC game in at least three years now.
Planet P Blog [planetp.cc] - Librety with Technology.
Re:Why Doom Sucks. (Score:5, Interesting)
My definition of a game is something where a rather simple set of rules can turn into an almost unlimited possible outcomes. Think of chess. Chess is like Langston's Ant [samskivert.com], where just a few rather trivial rules are pitted against each other, yet the tree of possible outcomes and strategies is absolutely insanely difficult to calculate. You could learn to play in an hour, you can spend the rest of your life reading and practicing and always improve. It's truly beautiful.
So with all this powerful hardware, where are the games like that? Where are the carefuly setup rulesets that provide constraints, yet a chaotic, non-linear equation type amount of freedom? Not this "run, run, jump, jump, duck... ooops slipped. Try again. run, run, jump, duck... oops, slipped, try again." Or "kill everybody in a row, run to the exit. Kill everybody in a row, run to the exit." That is embarassingly idiotic.
But, maybe we shouldn't expect otherwise. Games have fallen into the same trap as movies. The demand for payoff is larger, thus the budget must be bigger, because the audience must be wider. The wider the audience, the more dumbed-down the game must become. Ridley Scott said, in Future Noir [amazon.com], the same thing will continue happening to movies till you just can't even break even anymore. Then ... maybe ... the industry will start over and start nichifying again.
It's sad too. You can see a "hint" of it, like in games like Diablo or Age of Empires, or the Grand Theft Auto series. Give people freedom. That's what they want. Don't setup the path, setup the rules, and people will breathe the kind of life THEY want into the game, by playing it THEIR way. And look what happens, those games become wildly successful. But it's like the idiot game designers miss the point, they give the credit for success to the graphics, so, like for Age of Empires, rather than in the next one, building on the chess like attributes they decided to spend all their time and money on a 3D engine which did exactly nothing for the game. So now we have the exact same ruleset, in fact, dumbed down as compared to AOK, but a glorious new tileset that does nothing for the playability. Its frustrating. Look at this recent Slashdot post and you'll see why the situation isn't going to get any better anytime soon. [slashdot.org]
Anyway, that's my rant. Sorry, I just agree with the original poster 100% and I hope that one day all the people forwarding the success of the clone army of Quake-style games will taste the true satisfaction of an open/world, Langston's Ant type game, and demand more of it from the game makers.
Re:Why Doom Sucks. (Score:5, Interesting)
I discovered Chris Langston back in 1987, when he gave a talk at UofA about his work and his new book Artificial Life (of which there are several volumes now). A few weeks after his talk, I had this huge intuite leap, and started to develop an entirely new Game Engine for Adventure games. The idea, is that there would be a large number of n-variables - people, chain-of-events, scenarios, etc. That way as you played the game it would through various degrees of strength effect the rest of the world in obvious and very subtle ways. Like cause and effect, the rest of the game world would could continue to morph and change on one side while you were playing on the other. Then about 18 months later, the original SIMS game came out, and they beat me to the punch. Oh well.
My original idea for this game, and I would still like to see something like it develop an adventure game where you started out a someone in 1987 earth (now 2003), and your goal was to reach the center of the galaxy. That means that you had to live long enough to make it there, or discover some kind of FTL drive sooner than that. So in the game you would a nearly unlimted number of ways to make it there - make millions so you could have yourslef cryonically frozen, or afford the best longevity medicine, invest in the right technologies such as nanotechnology, allie yourslef with the right syndicates so that you were on the winning side, etc, etc. Anyway, it was a great idea back in 1987, and I would love to see something even remotely close to it now.
I will re-iterate:
The state of gaming today is totally pathetic.
Planet P Blog [planetp.cc] - Liberty with Technology.
Re:Why Doom Sucks. (Score:5, Interesting)
Much of your rant lines up pretty well with the design philosophies we had at Looking Glass (and I know Irrational shared), and that we have currently at Ion Storm. So I'm curious as to your take on how well we've accomplished our goals.
Chris Carollo
Deus Ex 2 Lead Programmer
Oh to look back at history... (Score:5, Funny)
I think little handheld thingies from Tiger do this now :)
Ok. Time for the +1 funny comment (Score:3, Funny)
psDoom (Score:1, Offtopic)
daikatana? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:daikatana? (Score:5, Funny)
9 Years Later (Score:5, Funny)
That's on the list! (Score:5, Funny)
Service Temporarily Unavailable- Here's the index (Score:3, Informative)
Features in the alpha / beta versions (Score:4, Interesting)
The most interesting thing about this version is the different BFG -- it causes many fireballs to come out in many directions. See screenshots.
Fireballs ricochet off of floors and ceilings.
Re:Features in the alpha / beta versions (Score:4, Informative)
Here's the Doom Bible [doomworld.com] (and PDF version [doomworld.com])... it seems to detail lots of stuff that was planned but didn't make it in.
Yikes (Score:3, Interesting)
Most of the improvment seems to be in the 'lighting' that made the retail game so scary and not so cartoonish.
There doesn't seem to be any lighting in these screen shots, and the game looks VERY amatuer.
Look at some of the other screens. This just shows ID released the game when they had everything looking right, in a 'Doom' sort of way.
Console Programming (Score:3, Interesting)
Romero's inspiration? (Score:2, Interesting)
Mr. Romero,
Puting aside all the splattered corpses, deranged vertebrae, snarling beasts of death, and moppy hair, what inspired you to be the the man to control the immortal death-spawning machine of E1M30?
Will I meet you again, some form or another, maybe even in a healthkit, somewhere within the scope of Doom3? It wouldn't be the same without you...Carmack thinks a good game is moreso implementation than creativity. You are the creativity, Carmack was the implementation; separate, we would see somthing less.
Stencil Shadows? (Score:3, Interesting)
Wouldn't it be sweet if Stencil Shadows [apple.com] were implemented, just like it was in Quake 1 [sourceforge.net]?
God, I am felling weird again. Just like in the old times of Doom 2...
Wow 10 years (Score:3, Informative)
"Its been offline since 1998" (Score:3, Funny)
Hrm, his site may be down (Score:3, Informative)
domain (Score:1)
smashing pumpkins (Score:4, Informative)
nice screenshot resolution ;) (Score:2, Funny)
Good job!
Re:nice screenshot resolution ;) (Score:5, Informative)
I guess the low system requirements make them easier to port without cutting down on features.
ID hit the nail on the head on this one.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Yep, my small little ISP in '93 was brought to its knees because of this program..
My favorite quote from the press release... (Score:3, Funny)
Well, we cant argue with the facts...
How can I run those? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:How can I run those? (Score:5, Informative)
Of course... (Score:1)
I have a theory DOOM III will be out on 12/10/2003 (Score:5, Insightful)
Thankyou DOOM, ID, and Cthulu. (Score:5, Interesting)
Suddenly, fast hardware was important. Getting friends around to deathmatch was important. Writing my own levels and sound effects files was important. I was shelling open the machine, squeezing out as much performance as possible. I was learning about graphics, about 3D design.
My reflexes became honed. I surprised people with my ability to notice pencils rolling off the table and catch them before they even had time to register something was happening.
Out of sheer time at a keyboard, both in and out of the game, I started typing at over 100 words per minute. I could mouse around a GUI quicker than people thought reasonable.
I discovered the internet. I payed $9 per hour to access it in Australian dollars, and that didn't include the timed STD calls I had to make to get to the ISP. I consumed every map file I could lay my hands on. I discovered porn, e-mail, gopher, the web, FTP, IRC in that order. I started making friends with people I had never seen in real life. I used Kali because Doom lacked TCP/IP support.
Now I am an I.T. professional, still as passionate as I was the first time I layed hands on the Doom I shareware installation floppies (that a thoughtful person in a Canberra computer games store copied for me). I still get shivers when I hear the Doom I map 1 music (it's my polyphonic mobile phone ring).
Without Doom, my passion for computers would not have developed, and I would probably not be posting to slashdot today.
May Cthulu bless ID and all their works.
quoth (Score:5, Funny)
He's a crappy webmaster too!
Odd timing (Score:1)
Weird.
Just plain weird.
And scary.
The missing link? (Score:1)
Fear Me! (Score:2)
Romero and the pipes of doom... (Score:1, Redundant)
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.
------
Doom: The safest place is behind a trigger
Slashdot : Where the safest place is *not* on the front page
Ahhh the days of multiplayer BBS'ing (Score:1)
Did I mention I bought it BEFORE we even owned a computer? I bought it just to play at my Dad's work after hours! Without sound or anything. And it was still the best game ever!
After my parents bought a PC (a super fast 486/66!) we figured out BBS's and how to play this 4-player, and I don't think to this day, that I've ever had so much fun with a PC game as those days of 4-player Doom on the local BBS.
Similarities between Doom III Alpha and Doom ideas (Score:3, Interesting)
Bruiser Brothers
Twin terrors at the end of episode one
These were never used, but there are an unused "monster_demon_bruiser" in the leaked Doom III Alpha files.
A short while later, a strange alien creature bursts into the room. ("What the hell?") A fight ensures.
No monster breaks into a room in Doom I, but a strange half-machine "pinky" demon does break into a room in the Doom III Alpha.
Just two things I noticed from a quick browse... Perhaps there are more.
Card playing marines= Half Life (Score:2, Interesting)
RGCD.* regulars? (Score:1)
My very introduction to USENET was that group, actually, it's amazing how much time has gone by.
Oh, and are there any other D2I's here?
The Doom song (Score:1)
What's in a name? (Score:3, Interesting)
Hehe, an interesting look into history, eh? By the way, I beat Ultimate Doom on Ultraviolent. I tried Nightmare but I just couldn't get use to the damn respawning. Umm, I failed a few classes that year, too. In retrospect... of course it was worth it! ;)
Blood on the Wall (Score:3, Interesting)
Meanwhile, I'm surprised that only ONE post refered to the song.. aka.. blood on the wall [www.rome.ro]. It has been sung my an ex-Nazareth group member.. and that AGAIN says a lot for the popularity of the game. It's a gr8 song, better than lotsa the **** that plays these days....
A somewhat predictive exert. (Score:3, Interesting)
Doomlight shadow (Score:5, Insightful)
DOOM was a favorite on damp winter afternoons. I would play it wearing headphones so as to not disturb others in the house. It felt _creepy_. You felt a bit of anxiety as you could hear another Imp shuffling around the place, but couldn't tell exactly where he was. You'd jump when you went around a corner and suddenly heard one of those half-man-half-goat things shout "Wwooooooooooooooo!!!" and start hurling fireballs at you.
I've not found an FPS since that does that for me. ID got the atmosphere absolutely right on that, and I hope they can recreate this in DOOM 3 - to a bigger extent with the graphics capabilities they should have.
One afternoon, I was playing DOOM and got the fright of my life. I was playing along, headphones on, volume up, creeping around one of the levels when my housemate sneaked up behind me and threw one of those beanbag frogs that were used to prop open doors. The frog landed on my shoulder JUST as a room erupted with Imps. I almost died of fright!
Slashdot...SMASH!!!!! (Score:2)
It may not be back online until 2006 by the time it recovers from the Slashdot attack
Oh god (Score:1)
Umm... yeah.. just a BIT Romero-centric maybe? Jeez, what is WRONG with this guy? >_
Where are the Carmack Interviews? (Score:1)
One thing.. (Score:1)
I mean, I used to say "eye dee" too, until about the time doom 2 came out and I noticed that that was wrong.
I was an alpha tester (Score:1)
Sheesh it hasnt been that long.. 94/95?
Last Post! (Score:1)
when I drive at night, it looks like everyone else is standing still
-- Steven Wright
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...
Re:Umm... that's like a cool website right? (Score:5, Funny)
| |
Re:This still doesn't make John Romero cool (Score:2, Insightful)
Sure Daikatana was a fuck up but he TRIED - he got it wrong, he's not a good manager maybe but he put an effort in.
If you've ever seen an interview with the guy or READ rome.ro you'd realise this guy has a REALLY great attitude about gaming - he's nostalgic - he enjoys games and he want's to have fun - the guy was crying because some moron like yourself sent him (yet another) abusive email just to make themselves feel better.
That's more than I can say for the id crew who seem to care less and less about each title, John C himself has said multiple times in interviews that certain aspects of a game are just gimmicks (even though said aspects would add to the title such as realistic physics in Doom 3) to put it bluntly as far as _I'M_ concerned Carmack and crew have far less enthusiasm for GAMES than they do engines...
He may have had a few failures in his time, but for christs sakes can we leave the guy alone now please???
Re:Doom 486 (Score:2)
Good times...