XBox Netplay Already

ElectusUnum writes "Well, it's been a little while since the XBox was released and people are already playing online! The folks at xboxgw.com have written a program to create an ethernet bridge between xbox's over the net, fooling the xbox's into thinking they're on a LAN. 1v1 seems to create no major lag and reports have come in like this one that claim up to four xbox's work fine. It seems a DSL connection is preferred for hosting the server." I want an X-Box so bad, or as I would call it, a DOA3-Box.

You're not the only one.

I'm dying to give Halo a try, but after my short relationship with the PS2, I need to wait for CostCo [costco.com] to carry the Xbox, as they will take it back 6 months later when I'm bored with it.

-Toli

other platforms

The XboxGW FAQ [xboxgw.com] is pretty interesting. Specifically:

Q: Do you need help writing code?
A: We could definately use help in the area of porting it to Other platforms. If you are interested in seeing the requirements for this, please send an e-mail to [e-mail] [mailto], letting us know which platform you have your expertise in.

Microsoft can't be to happy about this...

There goes the revenue I'm sure they were hoping to get off online gamers. How much do you want to bet future games won't work like this? Or even have any LAN support at all.

While it's true that developers can do whatever they want, I doubt Microsoft would let them use the system however they want (after all, do you think Sony would be very happy if someone released a 'game' that let people pirate PS2 games easily?)

This hack is pretty sweet, though. It would be really cool to play online games with people across the country (or world) without going through some stupid intermediary.

Re:Microsoft can't be to happy about this...

don't you think that it might be a good thing for them, since if it becomes this open, then more people will buy them, and more and more games? It's bound to make them more money in the long run.

The only thing that they might be angry about is that they didn't get there first, or they won't be able to provide the service if it's free.

Re:Microsoft can't be to happy about this...

don't you think that it might be a good thing for them, since if it becomes this open, then more people will buy them

I think you've read enough replies to your post, but I wanted to add this. I saw the Microsoft "CXO" being interviewed on CBNC, and Mark Haines *grilled* him about, "how do you expect to make any money if you're losing big bucks on every single unit?" The CXO replied that the unit ships ready for broadband access, and they plan make all their money selling online services.

I say be prepared for MSFT to attack anything and everything threatening their main source of income. They're banking on it.

Re:Microsoft can't be to happy about this...

My guess is that Microsoft will allow this and maybe even encourage it. All to sell as many X-Boxes as possible. Then in the next version of the X-Box or X-Box version 3 they will crack down and lock the system down. But by then Nintendo and Sony may only be shadows of their former selves and it will be time for the X-Box to be a money maker.

Just like MS looked the other way at casual piracy of Win9x and NT for years it will probably do so with the X-Box. But sooner or later payday will come.

When will MS' netplay be up?

I mean, this is cool and all if you want to play with someone you know across the country or something, but it's not really that useful until there are actual servers up with gamespy type software. I mean, you can only fight the same people so many times, you know?

M$ seem to be on to a winner here

I'm getting more and more tempted into getting one of these things now. Anandtech reported the DVD playback was better than the PS2s which boosts its cred. All that is needed are some great games (i'd like to see midtown madness and maybe championship manager for it) and a crack to play multi-region DVDs, then I should be begging for one.

After this they just need to buy up bleem and release it so I can play my old PS games on the machine. If they can get EA, Namco and Capcom to support them they should make a killing.

The problem is that in America there is no price differential between the PS2 and XBox (both $299 me thinks). In the UK the Xbox should be coming out at £299, with the PS2 already at £199. There seems to be no incentive in the US for people to favour the PS2. But even over here I'm wanting a Xbox now. Oh well - only have to wait till next spring!

XBox is going to be the hacker's dream

As much as slashdotter's hate MS, it looks like the XBox is going to be much more hackable then the GameCube.

Funny

I like how the download is an RPM. That'll make Bill G happy. Besides, without him we couldn't have things like RPMs anyway.

XBOX Development Team

It's nice to see so many people interested in this. I have been on the development team and would just like to let you all know where this project is headed. We are currently working on a matching server to hook people up to each other. The software is highly stable and fast. I just finished a 3xbox game less than a half hour ago. Pings were about 150ms, and there was NO lag. We are also working to implement chat. Expect another release in the next couple of days.

Hobbyist Community

Several days ago I posted a note about a friend of mine who got in trouble with Sony after posting home programming tools to the Internet. To revise my previous post, I believe it was a tool that allowed someone to write a PlayStation boot sector on a CD. My friend used it for writing his own programs to run on a PlayStation but perhaps Sony was understandably concerned it might lead to the copying of their games.

I just want to say how fascinating I find this culture of console hacking and programming. Here is Japan in the home of the console, I wish we had a more active community, but it does not seem to be so. I am not sure why not, especially since consoles are nearly uniform in popularity among all age groups and such.

My only fear is for these programmers. Microsoft is well know for its business practices, and I worry that they will disaprove of this Xbox net-play project. I do not see how this will hurt them but I still think they will not like it. Too bad since it will only make their console more popular.

R. Suzuka

What about PC's..

Now the trick would be to get it so that when some of these games are ported to Windows, to have them able to play against eachother across the internet. That would be the real gem in the Xbox and online gaming. I wonder if this would be even possible due to the obviously differences in the controls and the games themselves, but it would still be worth a try to get it to work.

oddwrold-sortof on topic

this is the first tim'e i've noticed this:

the description of oddworld on the xbox.com website is as follows:


Save Oddworld from greedy corporate bigwigs and evil animal-testing researchers. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll meet Fuzzles about to fry. Simply neurotic...


i added the bold. am i the only one who finds this funny?

2 XBox?

So what you're saying is that I have to use two boxes to play online games with an XBox? I think I'll wait until the Sony PS2 Networking kit (or better yet that much rumored Linux kit) is available...

Do the math. XBox + linux PC for online play is not a deal. $300 + time to set up your xboxgw software alone, assuming you already have yourself setup on a Linux box... wait, better yet, I'll get 2 XBoxes, install Linux on 1 of them and set it up as the gateway for the other... then M$ will lose twice the money!
g=

How's this for irony!!

From the xboxgw.com website.

>> XBOXGW currently only runs on Linux.

I'm having a great laugh!!!

Its WAY easier than that!

using the standard TAP/TUN driver for linux, I was able to set up an ethernet TAP tunnel between my friends house and mine. (128K ISDN links).

Just pop the ethernet cards into promisc mode, set up a kernel IP filter to filter out any unnecessary traffic, and bridge the TAP to the ethernet card! works great! no noticible lag!

Net Ready

> I want an X-Box so bad, or as I would call it, a DOA3-Box.

My Athlon I ordered came "net ready too" .. imagine that.

The XBox is the whore of gaming consoles. It's a celeron processor with an nvidia video card. Whow, some great amazing technology that Microsoft gets to put their name on. I don't get it.

Gaming consoles are ment to be DIFFERENT then when I play games on my PC. The XBox is making you play games that you could play on your PC except with not as high resolutions (unless you plug into a HDTV that costs over $3,000.) ...

Play Metal Gear Solid 2 before you decide to jump on the xBox bandwagon.

Re:Net Ready

PC = lets say 64 megs of RAM, 64 megs of Video RAM and an AGP bus that lets you copy between the two (think having two buckets and a hose) Unified Memory Arch = 64 megs of RAM which both your video chips and processor are plugged into. Note that originally AGP was designed to work as a poor man's UMA; the card would go directly to system RAM over the AGP bus, obviating the need for on-board RAM. Nobody actually does this. :-) So lets say you want to create a texture on the fly. On the PC, your processor creates it, dumps it in RAM, and it's then copied (and this is the bit that takes time) over to the video card's RAM, where it's read and displayed. On a UMA machine, the processor creates it, dumps it in RAM, and the video card reads it and displays it. Now, IIRC, the PlayStation2 does this the exact opposite way; lots of little bitty cup sized RAM caches, and a firehose of a bus. The idea being grab some data, use it, get rid of it. You need it later? Just grab it again, you've got bandwidth to spare.

Re:Net Ready

It's a celeron processor with an nvidia video card.

Ah, but it's not a celeron. You'd know this, had you read Anandtech's article yesterday. And while it is an nVidia video card, it's not one you can go out and buy for your PC. Sure, it's somewhere between the GF3 and GF3ti500 in terms of clock and memory speed, but that's ignoring the extra shaders on the card. And it's also ignoring the fact that the XBox IS A CONSOLE. What that means is that it's hardware that won't change for 5+ years. Developers can write directly to that hardware, and do many other programming tricks that they can't do with a PC because they don't know what hardware their game will run on. Yes, it uses some PC hardware. That doesn't make it a PC (if that were the case, then the GameCube is a Macintosh).

Gaming consoles are ment to be DIFFERENT then when I play games on my PC. The XBox is making you play games that you could play on your PC except with not as high resolutions (unless you plug into a HDTV that costs over $3,000.) ...

And the XBox IS different than the PC, where the games are concerned. While you might find Halo on a PC, you're not going to find Munch's Oddysey, Amped, DOA3, Cel Damage, SSX Trickey, and more. And as far as Halo goes, the XBox isn't the only console to have FPS games on it (nor is it the first). Hell, the old Super Nintendo had a port of Wolf3D. The PS2 has ports of NOLF and Half-Life , among many others. So just because you think that the FPS is the realm of computers doesn't make it so. But rarely will you play a fighting game or party game, for instance, on a PC. Oh, and you might want to go re-price HDTV's. You can get good ones for $2000 or so these days.

Play Metal Gear Solid 2 before you decide to jump on the xBox bandwagon.

And play Halo before you write off the XBox for good. Then again, there's nothing saying you can't have both an XBox and a PS2. or an XBox and a Gamecube, or PS2 and Gamecube, or even all three.

PC-BOX

I have no idea if this has been talked about, doesn't anyone here feel that xbox games could be easily had on a computer with comparable features? GF3, DVD-ROM, x-box games. Don't they already use directx to develop their software? I don't know, seems to me that Microsoft could easily put out something. Be it hardware/software, like what Sega did for the Saturn.

I wonder.

How many game studios are being told that, if they want the SDK's early, or even at all, that they must sign exclusivity contracts with M$ ? My prediction for sure, is this. No game released for Xbox will ever be released for linux. My 80% sure prediction is this... no game released for Xbox will be released for ANYTHING else.

Sega is gone. It's possible Nintendo is hurting. How far can they be pushed, before they have to give up too? Even Sony might have to pull out, if M$ behaves as I've suggested. Bingo. Video Game Industry Monopoly.

But... it gets worse. The powers that be have always HATED people building their own computers, upgrading them. Here is a viable PC platform, that is almost completely sealed. Even a bigger hard drive might be impossible for a user to install, if M$ wants to really cheat. If they release this as a home pc, or even business... and Office XP2 is released for it, what then? "People buy the Xbox, it's the end to all those hardware conflicts, software too!". Compaq(HP?), Dell, Gateway... their days are numbered.
Bingo. PC Industry Monopoly.

Won't affect you, you say? "I'll always buy my own, and build as I chooose!". Noble thoughts. But the fact is, the prices you pay for hardware are in part subsidized by the fact that everyone else is doing the same. People like you and I might be left paying prices similar to those that corporate enterprise purchasers are paying, since they will be the only other market that won't be able to use a sealed system like Xbox. The future looks grim, my friend.

Kali?

Hmmm, a virtual LAN...this sounds familiar. I believe that a software package called Kali (www.kali.net) has been doing this for years and years. I remember using this for doom or quake or something like that.

IIRC it's a decent package. Check it out.

Xbox OS?

I was wondering what OS the xbox is based off of the games use directx 8 and such so should it be a fairly easy thing to get the game to run on a win32 box?

Re:Xbox OS?

It's not a PC. The CPU might use a PIII and the OS might be based on Win2k, but it isn't Win2k, even the DirectX8 being is significantly different, and the system architecture is quite different to a PC.

All software runs in kernel mode, unified memory means the CPU and GPU get equal access to textures & vertex data, a second vertex pipe & some other fancy texture stuff on the GPU, specialised controllers - none of that exists in the PC space, and would all have to be emulated.

Of course, it'll be much easier to port an Xbox game to Windows & vice versa, compared to a PS2, but it's still far too different to just run.

MMOFPS?

Are there still plans for HALO to become an MMOFPS as originally intended by Bungie? Or is it just going to become another 32 player DM thing?

PS2 ?

what is the state of broadband kits for the PS2 or GameCube? things become infinitely more fun when an actual person is involved, rather than just the cheesy, predictable game AI.

Microsoft FUD

You'd better be careful on those index page posts, before you know it Microsoft will say that they have been endorsed by Slashdot!

> I want an X-Box so bad, or as I would call it, a DOA3-Box.

Inventive use of the apostrophe.

Clever idea, good story, I especially liked the inventive use of the apostrophe.

"up to four xbox's"

Let bob the angry flower tell it:
http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif [angryflower.com]

XBOX vs. *

This program is a godsend. I have a feeling MS wont have a netplay service set up for some time, and now i can play with my friends full screen w/o having to drag TVs and such over to one persons house. The XBOX may have 4 controller ports, but playing 4 to a screen really doesnt compare to haveing a screen to yourself. Console NET gaming will take off. SEGA made huge headway in to this arena, and it will only get more popular. XBox is going to be hacked left and right, and i cant wait =)

And to gaming bigots - I am an avid collector of consoles, and have a PC and MAC for gaming as well, and what ticks me off more then anything is people who have some blind attachment to one way of gaming, usually because its what they blew 300 bucks on. Heres the point, for all those who still dont get it:

ITS ABOUT THE GAMES STUPID

Finally, about seeing Xbox games directly playable on PC... its going to be a while if ever. Fist reason is MS wont want to cannibalize their own market(although a lot of games will be ports, the strength will be original titles, and XBox first titles, to drive sales). The second is a technical hurdle: XBox on the surface may look just like a PC with a gForce3, but, it has one very important advantage: the programmers have ONE target spec to reach the whole audiance. This has always been a console advantage from a game making standpoint. So while on paper its looks like less then a high end pc, in then end you have better looking games because programmers write games to take full advantage of what resources are available, the target output is a TV (relativly low resolution and a constant), and no huge OS overhead.

Someone tell me

how this is any different than, say, setting up an ethernet bridge?

How is this specific to the xbox?

Unfortunately, it's already doomed

I was just reading Business Wire, and apparently Nintendo will sell out it's initial 700,000 unit shipment this weekend, has added an additional 200,000 units to the next shipment, and MSFT still has backlog after shipping only 300,000 units (originally scheduled for 600,000).

If you're hoping to get these as hack machines (a pretty good deal, actually), you better hurry, cause it's likely the xBox will be dead by springtime. The game industry only rewards the #1 and #2 spots, and xBox is radipdly becoming in danger from holding on to #3.

[caveat - I own both MSFT and NTDOY stock]
-

something's not right

there are linux users that own xboxes? who'da thunk it...

wtf

I want an X-Box so bad, or as I would call it, a DOA3-Box.

who are you and what the hell have you done with rob malda?

XBox

I want an X-Box so bad

Are you sure you wouldn't rather have Mandrake Gaming edition [slashdot.org]

It should be noted..

That you've been able to play Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 on PlayStation 2 over the net for quite sometime now. Get yourself a USB Ethernet Adapter and away you go.

Booo Hisss... XBox

Metal Gear Solid 2 X

A lot of people have been saying
"Don't ditch the PS/2 go play MGS2"

Well incase a lot of people didn't know
Metal Gear Solid 2 will be coming out to xbox
So really, if that's the only reason to hold onto a ps/2.....

CmdrTaco's turnaround?

"I want an X-Box so bad, or as I would call it, a DOA3-Box."

Wow, that was a quick turnaround. I've been arguing for the benefits of an XBox in the living room for awhile (one of my posts during the release day Slashdot article generated over 20 replies), but I never expected Taco to become a convert.

Makes you wonder, though, if he has some kind of syndrome? :) Swings from one technology canvas to another. There should be something in the DSVIV for CmdrTacoism.

NEat..but..

How is building an ethernet bridge something new? I mean, great that they packaged it up like this...
but this is nothing new.

Some mention KALI.. kali was based on bridging IPX I believe....

Of course, MS could always just make the damn game support tcp/ip in the first place...

"She kicks high"

I want an X-Box so bad, or as I would call it, a DOA3-Box.

Only for the pixel shaded bump-mapping and rich plot development, no doubt. ;)

After having played Halo a few times online...

I can safely say that these launch titles were not supposed to be on the Internet in the first place. Now, I have a cable modem, which is second tier to the DSL's I was running agianst. I realize this. But, the game was created with LAN play in mind, with 1ms ping times. However, when I was getting a 350ms ping time (awful, I know), it wasn't compensating at all.

For instance, you can look around when you lag, but can't move or shoot in Halo. Since there's no error detection built into these games, you wind up in strange places when you resync with the server, and then get blown to bits. Many times.

The server doesn't lag, obviously. But the clients do.

Now, the game isn't bad multiplayer, but it was made with a LAN in mind. So, before everybody goes out and buys XBox's because of this, have that in mind. The programmers didn't think they would have to deal with Internet Latency in Halo, so there is nothing to help you if you have a high ping.

IRC #xbox-online on EFnet

Until a gamespy-like GUI is released for any of these ethernet bridging solutions, #xbox-online of EFnet is the place to be to gather net games together. Enjoy!

-Sarkoon

Re:blerg

if taco wants an xbox then wtf doesn't he buy one? It's not like he's poor.

Have you seen VA's stock price lately? :P

Actualy, yeh that surprized me to. You can get them on ebay [ebay.com] these days for like $350

Re:he wants an xbox????

Sure, except they're not making the hardware, it's contracted out.

Re:whoopsie

xboxen

Re:who gives a shit

Obviously you're not into doing something just for the fun of it. Sure I'm probably only going to play Halo online once or twice online, but it's FUN to set it up and get it to work. Halo works very well as a large multiplayer game because it was developed for a LAN of xbox's, supporting a max of 16 players. The difference between doing this with a lot of tv's and the same over the internet isn't different in terms of gameplay. Sounds to me like you have a problem with the Xbox and it's LAN capabilities, not connecting over the net....

You don't need linux, it boots off a disk..

It just loads into ram..

Thanks!

Your post was so clear and well written, the message just JUMPED out of a page, I thought I'd say thanks..... *sarcasm* if you're too stupid to figure that out yourself...

Re:who gives a shit

consoles were never meant for online gaming. It just doesn't make sense.

Well here's my 2 cents.

Consoles are far more convenient and more simple than a computer. How are they more convenient? They are small, light, and very portable. How are they more simple? Plug in a cartridge or put in your CD, press the power button and you're done. No installation required. I'm not suggesting that it's difficult to install a game, at least it isn't for most people, but not doing something is always easier than doing something.

Personally I think it would be great to have the simplicity of a console and the power, graphical quality, and networking capabilities of a PC all combined into one small, light weight, and portable machine.

I love getting together with friends for a weekend of LAN gaming [freedomware.org] at someones house, but I hate lugging my computer over there. On the other hand, if I had a console system like the GameCube (6x6x4.3 inches), it certainly would make LAN gaming a lot easier. A console and an LCD panel would be very portable.

Furthermore, if games were no longer any kind of a priority for my Desktop PC, I could save a fortune on PC parts. You wouldn't need to spend $350 for a ti500 GeForce3 video card. A $29 8MB AGP card would be fine for most people who just need to display 1280x1024 at 85Hz or less on a 19" monitor. Of course if you have other reasons for needing 3D power, like CAD, then this wouldn't be a factor for you. I also wouldn't be as quick about upgrading the rest of my PC parts if games weren't a factor. Games require more computing power than any other software for the most part.

Bottom line for me - I'm not willing to give up the awesome networking ability of PC gaming so until consoles can match the ability of PC's in that respect, I will continue to play games on the PC. But I would have no reservations at all about dropping PC gaming in favor of consoles when that day comes. So I think it's cool to see a project like this even if it is for the XBox.

I think you are right to say that "consoles were never meant for online gaming"... That's true in terms of all past consoles... But moving forward, I think consoles will be meant for online gaming and IMHO, it does make sense.

Let the flame begin.

Re:he wants an xbox????

I didn't say they were ripping off consumers - I meant they are ripping off Sony, Nintendo, and Sega, probably Atari too somehow. Earlier this year, i read an article in EGM about how Microsoft got together grioups of gamers and asked them what they liked about previous consoles design, controllers, etc. Good business (how else would you do it if you had no clue about consoles?), but basically, they ended up stealing all sorts of ideas from previous consoles, like the dreamcats's cotrollers. Big surprise.

Re:he wants an xbox????

actually it was in an article along time ago when xbox was first announced that they wern't even that serious about breaking ground in the console market, this was only to be a stepping stone to get them into the set top entertainment arena [bbc.co.uk]

Re:US based console

I for one am excited that a console is finally being designed in the United States and manufactured in the United States. The US deserves some credit... we certainly play enough games, we should be the ones making them! Now if only we could move great companies like Electronic Arts into the United States, so we'd have great software to go along with great hardware.

I think the X-Box is a great chance for the United States to show the world what our own game machines are really worth. And we'd be doing the Japanese such a favor... they won't have to write such difficult code for the Dreamcast or GameCube or PS2 anymore... they can just spit out the code once and ship it as soon as it compiles. Game development will go into overdrive, and the quality of the products will finally reflect some AMERICAN standards of ingenuity, creativity, and stability.

God Bless America, Goddammit!

Connect the xbox to ANY box, witha linux boot DISK

THe whole thing loads into ram, as mentioned earlier u dont even need a hard drive.

Guilty as charged

Passion is best left to notions of love

... and not responding to obvious troll ;)

(and yes, still offtopic after 6 replies)