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Wince at WinCE's New Name: 'Windows Powered'
Microsoft Posted by Roblimo on Wednesday December 01, @06:01AM
from the we're-really-and-truly-not-making-this-up dept.
Lycestra writes "CNet has an article stating Windows CE is being renamed. In the spirit of such names as Office, Money, and Explorer, it is being renamed "Windows Powered". I expected something more like 'Poke-Windows'."

21 Linux Web Browsers? | Choosing the Right Cluster System  >

 

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    hehe (Score:1, Offtopic)
    by Dr. Sp0ng (spong@SPAM.glue.SUCKS.umd.edu) on Wednesday December 01, @06:02AM EST (#1)
    (User Info) http://www.wam.umd.edu/~spong/
    hehe

    "Software is like sex- the best is for free"
    -Linus Torvalds

    Finger spong+@glue.umd.edu for public key.
    Re:hehe (Score:1, Funny)
    by infojack on Wednesday December 01, @01:54PM EST (#200)
    (User Info)
    What a bunch of idiots. Have any of you even used windows ce? it sure beats linux hands down, it has a great web browser too, unlike some os's we know of (linux). I got a HP from work with Windows ce on it, and it works great, I'm glad it didn't have linux on it, because then I would spend the first 10 hour battery on trying to figure out how to get the dial up networking to work, and then the next 10 hour battery life trying to download software/compile it test it, and then spend the next 10 hour battery life trying to find out why the software crashes( not the kernel, because linux is ROCK solid) Yes windows ce does suck, i wish i had linux on my palm top so I had something to do all day instead of work.

    Oh ya, its not slow either, but you would already know that becusae you used it right? People on slashdot wouldn't say stuff without first testing it would they?
    ok, moderate this down to -1 becuase i didn't say i want to fuck linus and his mom.
    Powered? (Score:1)
    by MissNachos (nospam(a)shada.org) on Wednesday December 01, @06:04AM EST (#3)
    (User Info) http://www.shada.org
    Powered implies it will work right? How about Mini-Windows?
    Slogan (Score:2, Funny)
    by Nicolas MONNET (nico@nospam.monnet.to) on Wednesday December 01, @06:11AM EST (#6)
    (User Info) http://nicolas.monnet.to
    So the ad would go "Mini-Win, you complete me!"

    --
    Join the most interesting thread

    Re:Slogan (Score:1)
    by MissNachos (nospam(a)shada.org) on Wednesday December 01, @06:20AM EST (#18)
    (User Info) http://www.shada.org
    You read my mind...
    Re:Slogan (Score:2)
    by Imperator (imperator@mytherDOESNOTLIKESPAM.com) on Wednesday December 01, @06:35AM EST (#38)
    (User Info) http://myther.com/
    "It's just as slow, completely unstable, and 1/8 the size."

    Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
    Re:Slogan (Score:1)
    by karnal (karnal@spamacct.excite.com) on Wednesday December 01, @09:23AM EST (#150)
    (User Info)
    and for the scottish version of mini-win, you happen to get either:

    * Fat Windows
    or,
    * Bastard Windows

    *p.s. no offense to the scottish... BTW, if it's not scottish, it's CRAP!
    Karnal
    Re:Powered? (Score:1)
    by maroberts (maroberts@dial.pipex.com) on Wednesday December 01, @06:15AM EST (#11)
    (User Info) http://www.maroberts.dial.pipex.com/
    Can anyone give an example of where rebranding has worked ? Windows Powered would be applicable to most systems running Windows and is a bit anonymous IMHO.

    Maybe "Weeny Windows" ?

    Mark Roberts

    Re:Powered? (Score:1)
    by hedgehog_uk on Wednesday December 01, @06:15AM EST (#12)
    (User Info)
    Mini-Windows? Perfect. Describes it exactly. Small, aggressive, bent on world domination, bastard cut-down clone of the original, big Evil version. And hopefully will suffer a similar fate to Dr Evil's Mini-Me.

    HH

    Re:Powered? (Score:1)
    by nhowie (roundof@SPAMFREEbeer.com) on Wednesday December 01, @06:33AM EST (#34)
    (User Info) http://www.crathva.fsnet.co.uk
    How about keeping the 'CE' part and losing the 'Windows', what with the name 'Windows' implying "buggy, slow, painful, etc", hence: Mini-CE, or MinCE for short ;)
    -- peace, love and penguins
    Mince? (Score:1)
    by DrCode on Wednesday December 01, @10:25AM EST (#165)
    (User Info)
    Some of us who've been around Unix for a few years remember "Mince" as a commercial derivative of emacs, where "Mince" stood for "Mince is not complete emacs".
    Re:Powered? (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @06:41AM EST (#42)
    No, I think "powered" just refers to the energy generated when you eventually end up burning your palm-PC to generate steam and useful electricity.
    What what what (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @06:11AM EST (#4)
    I thought they were scrapping Windows CE. Or is that, companies weren't using it as much.
    Oh I see, Microsoft want a change of image!
    if at first it doesn't succeed..... (Score:1)
    by Locutus on Wednesday December 01, @03:07PM EST (#210)
    (User Info)
    Then change the name, force preloads by sending Vito to the OEMs, and pay companies like AT&T BILLIONS to use it.

    How many times has M$FT done this in the name of innovation? Please don't answer this question, disk space is a terrible thing to waste. :)

    Locutus
    "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road look like roadkill to me." --Linus
    why they changed the name (Score:2, Interesting)
    by J-freak on Wednesday December 01, @06:11AM EST (#5)
    (User Info) http://www.game-over.ch
    also have a look at this article by c't (german). use babelfish to translate it. it has some interesting thoughts why microsoft changed the name.

    --
    www.game-over.ch - Jesus rules!
    Re:why they changed the name (Score:1, Funny)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @06:48AM EST (#44)

    From Babelfish, the first sentence reads:

    With the next version change Microsoft wants to rename its luckless Bonsai operating system Windows CE.

    =)

    Re:why they changed the name (Score:1)
    by bungalow (wallace_chris@go.com) on Wednesday December 01, @07:33AM EST (#75)
    (User Info) http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=wearables
    I happen to like the german term.

    "Luckless Bonsai" seems to cover it.
    _______________________________
    What are your thoughts on Wearable Computers?
    It's named that because... (Score:1, Redundant)
    by Paul Crowley (slashdot-paul@hedonism.demon.co.uk) on Wednesday December 01, @06:12AM EST (#7)
    (User Info) http://www.hedonism.demon.co.uk/paul/
    the thing is so resource-hungry, you'll need access to mains power to run it for more than three minutes!

    Wouldn't it just guarantee victory for our side if Symbian went open source? How come the hardware manufacturers don't realise this is in their interests? "The Magic Cauldron" makes it all fairly clear...
    --
    John M - personal message for you on my Web page.
    Re:It's named that because... (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @07:56AM EST (#91)
    Sybian as open source? You obviously do not understand the business they are in.

    It would be like me giving away my yearly harvest of magic beans and offing to teach how to cook them for US$10. Would you need someone to teach you how to cook magic beans? I didn't think so.

    What what what (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @06:13AM EST (#8)
    I thought they were scrapping Windows CE. Or is that, companies weren't using it as much.

    Oh I see, Microsoft want a change of image!
    Poke-windows (Score:0, Offtopic)
    by Dwonis (dlitz[IBoycottSpam]@cheerful[spamsucks].com) on Wednesday December 01, @07:15AM EST (#61)
    (User Info) http://www.redrival.com/dlitz/
    Hm...

    How Appropriate
    --------
    "I already have all the latest software."
    -- Laura Winslow, "Family Matters"
    Windows Powered .... (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @06:13AM EST (#9)
    ... but does it have the Power to Serve?
    Re:Windows Powered .... (Score:1)
    by MissNachos (nospam(a)shada.org) on Wednesday December 01, @06:22AM EST (#22)
    (User Info) http://www.shada.org
    Powered by FreeBSD?
    I liked Wince, (Score:3, Funny)
    by Forge (forge @ myrealbox.com) on Wednesday December 01, @06:14AM EST (#10)
    (User Info) http://www.gojamaica.com
    Wince was appropriate, it made sense. Every time somebody asked me to configure a Wince based palmtop for a PC, I winced at the thought that a power user would need help. Then I winced at the difficulty of doing it myself.

    Now It's "Windows Powered" which can be abbreviated WinPed, [pronounced wimped], for what people do when faced with the new levels of difficulty in using this thing. A few clients have already winped out and gone back to Palm.
    Isn't it surprizing how badly I spell ?
    Re:I liked Wince, (Score:1)
    by _neo (per-karsten.NOSPAMATALL.nordhaug@nrk.no) on Wednesday December 01, @07:47AM EST (#85)
    (User Info)
    > How the hell do you get wimped from WinPed? Very simply. Any linguist (like me) can explain to you the process of assimilation where to sounds pronounced in different parts of the mouth (like n and p) end up pronounced CLOSER (both "m" and "p" are bilabial sounds...) to each other, if not in the same place... :-)))
    .sig ? what freakin .sig ?
    I think they may get in a little trouble. (Score:2)
    by TheDullBlade on Wednesday December 01, @06:15AM EST (#13)
    (User Info)
    This name seems too blatantly misleading to me. The implication of a logo that says "Windows Powered" is that the thing that the logo is on is running a product named Windows (or contains a "windows chip"). It's a bit like naming an electric car "V8 powered". Believe it or not (given what some companies get away with), there are some rules against this sort of thing.
    Re:I think they may get in a little trouble. (Score:2)
    by SKicker on Wednesday December 01, @06:25AM EST (#26)
    (User Info) http://members.xoom.com/SKicker
    not really.. more like calling a car with dunlop tires dunlop powered
    Re:I think they may get in a little trouble. (Score:2, Insightful)
    by jafac on Wednesday December 01, @12:20PM EST (#188)
    (User Info)
    It's like those morons who buy a Honda Civic HF, and slap V-Tec stickers all over them.

    I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said "Information wants to be free".
    -jafac
    WinPo riceboy decals (Score:1)
    by Tofuhead (tofuhead_shall_not_be_contacted_via_em@il) on Wednesday December 01, @06:24PM EST (#226)
    (User Info)

    Maybe those same riceboys could install some of those Clarion AutoPCs in their Civics; then they could also apply decals that say, "Powered by Windows Powered."

    Ah yes, English at its best.

    < tofuhead >

    Re:I think they may get in a little trouble. (Score:1)
    by alecm (alecm@cryANTISPAMpto.dircon.co.uk) on Wednesday December 01, @06:31AM EST (#31)
    (User Info) http://www.crypto.dircon.co.uk/
    I REALLY wonder what the UK's "Trades Descriptions Act" will make of this little marketing gem.

    IANAL, but there is a large body of UK law regarding what claims may be made for a product's ability, in the UK, and if "Windows" can be cited as a trademark tied to the x86 Windows software line, and this name can be implied to mean software *compatability* with the aforesaid, then the results *could* be a bit messy.

    - alec
    perl -nle 'setpwent;crypt($_,$c)eq$c&&print"$u=$_"while($u,$c)=getpwent'

    Re:I think they may get in a little trouble. (Score:1)
    by BlueUnderwear on Wednesday December 01, @08:38AM EST (#114)
    (User Info)
    Only problem: they are the trademark owner themselves, so who's gonna sue them?

    Re:I think they may get in a little trouble. (Score:1)
    by Dman33 (dtisher@nospam.umich.edu) on Wednesday December 01, @09:15AM EST (#146)
    (User Info)
    I think what is meant is that using the term 'Windows Powered' may imply to the consumer that the device is compatible with (or powered by) the Windows OS when it is really just a useless hack-job. OTOH you can argue that this 'OS formerly known as CE' can be referred to as a member of the Windows family.

    IANAL, but I guess it could get a little sticky but nothing that their legal department cannot lie--uh...talk their way out of.
    Re:I think they may get in a little trouble. (Score:1)
    by orcrist (christopher.kuhi@stud.uni-*blah*muenchen.de) on Wednesday December 01, @07:02AM EST (#54)
    (User Info)
    What... Microsoft, misleading? Are we talking about the same Microsoft?

    Chris
    Re:I think they may get in a little trouble. (Score:1)
    by radish on Wednesday December 01, @07:09AM EST (#59)
    (User Info)

    Errr...but it IS running a product called Windows. Sure it's some dodgy scaled down version, but it's still part of the Windows "family" and hence can be called Windows.


    --- No I probably don't know what I'm talking about...
    Re:I think they may get in a little trouble. (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @07:25AM EST (#70)
    Maybe they are looking to produce a single chip solution, embeding the ROM with the CPU??
    Power of Microsoft (Score:2, Funny)
    by Steeltoe (steeltoe@mail.com) on Wednesday December 01, @08:56AM EST (#134)
    (User Info)
    You forget that Microsoft must be free to innovate. So if they want it to sound like their gadgets get their power, ie. charge or energy-source, from Windows, they must be free to reinvent the english language for the benefit of the unenlightened consumer.

    - Steeltoe
    - Steeltoe
    A little point... (Score:2)
    by CormacJ (cormac@iol.ie) on Wednesday December 01, @06:16AM EST (#14)
    (User Info)
    "When you buy a device, you buy a complete thing--it's not like a PC where you can upgrade the thing whenever you want to," said Phil Holden, product manager for Microsoft's Windows CE group, in explaining the change. "When we're talking to the broader consumer, it's pretty clear that customers care what the device does, but not so much what the underlying operating system is."

    I think the consumer cares about a device that works without crashing, that runs quick, and doesn't drain power so you don't have to drag several sets of batteries around with you.

    This name change will generate hordes of clueless users that will come back to vendors asking "It says its Windows powered - How can I install Microsoft Office 97 on it?"

    Microsoft should concentrate on getting it to work right, and getting it so that its compatible with Windows. If thier programmers were as good as thier marketing people, I don't think anyone would be complaining so much about Microsoft.
    Re:A little point... (Score:2, Funny)
    by geophile (jao@mediaone.net) on Wednesday December 01, @06:32AM EST (#33)
    (User Info)
    This name change will generate hordes of clueless users that will come back to vendors asking "It says its Windows powered - How can I install Microsoft Office 97 on it?"

    Oh, but you can. Well, sort of. For example the WinCE PowerPoint allowed you to edit the title of your presentation!

    Re:A little point... (Score:3, Insightful)
    by dingbat_hp (dingbat@codesmiths.com) on Wednesday December 01, @06:55AM EST (#49)
    (User Info)

    I think the consumer cares [...]

    I don't.

    I think they used to. Back in the days when PDAs were rare and expensive, they were bought by geeks who cared about such things. Now we're moving to a more mature (sic) market, where they're bought by the naive, or bought as gifts, and sold by the untrained and simian. Increasingly, the only differentiable features between PDAs will be the logo on the case and an inaccurate display card on the shelf at Electrode Hut.

    Take a walk through Electrode Hut sometime and listen to people buying real retail products from the real retail sales chain (all shrinkwrap developers should do this regularly). They don't understand the technical issues, and if the sales staff even mention them, they frequently get it wrong (the number of mis-sold Palm IIIe I over-hear !). Maybe you and I know that colour means unusable battery life, but very few retail purchasers do.

    -- Smert' Spamionam

    Re:A little point... (Score:1)
    by The Variable Man on Wednesday December 01, @07:10AM EST (#60)
    (User Info)

    This reminds me of when I bought a Psion. The sales 'bot tried to tell me it was "100% windows compatible" because it was bundled with the PsiWin connectivity package.

    When I asked what memory capacity the various models had he said "They never run out of memory because you can put these little cards in them".

    *bangs head on counter and walks out of shop*
    Re:A little point... (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @02:06PM EST (#201)
    At the same time, psion's 5mx is a cool little PDAs. They've got the best keyboard of any PDA with a keyboard (It's a bit like the IBM thinkpad, the way it slides out..). They're black and white, but the battery life is great - 2 AAs last me about 2-3 weeks of intermittent-pattern use. They've got IrDA and RS232 links, and they make a great serial debug /remote control terminal (in conjunction with aGSM mobile hphone in the EU, anyway).

    5mx's have 16MByte RAM (5mx pros 24) and can take flash cards (the biggest flash card I've seen is 45 MByte)

    They run ARM 710 risc chips at 36 MHz.

    EPOC32 is also a much better OS than WinCE, in architectural terms.
    Re:A little point... (Score:1)
    by dclydew (dclydew@interhack.net) on Wednesday December 01, @08:42AM EST (#116)
    (User Info) http://www.interhack.net/people/dclydew/
    I recall visiting the "Hut" with an old engineer that had me in "Jedi training". He was really interested in the new 2 Meter HT (Handi-Talkie). He inquired about battery life and the sales guys said " This battery will last all day". Wayne looked down at him,( Wayne was about 6' 2" and 280lbs, big white beard, kinda like a very very grouchy Santa) and said, "You don't know what the fsck you're talking about, do you?" The sales guy blinked and said "Ummm, well not really..."

    We left and I laughed all the way back to the office.
    Yes Virginia, there is a Tux Penguin....
    Re:A little point... (Score:2, Funny)
    by Nodatadj (u07ih@NOSPAM.abdn.ac.uk) on Wednesday December 01, @07:40AM EST (#79)
    (User Info) http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~u07ih/spamfree/
    Customer: "My palmtop won't turn on"
    Help-Desk: "It's run out of batteries"
    Customer: "No, it doesn't use batteries, it's Windows Powered"

    Re:MIcrosoft programmers (Score:2, Insightful)
    by Nerdy Spice on Wednesday December 01, @07:42AM EST (#82)
    (User Info)
    This is a misconception that is unfair to the individuals who work as programmers at Microsoft. It also may cause many free software advocates to underestimate Microsoft's programming abilities. Microsoft has some excellent programmers - even the WinCE team must have some first rate people. The problem is that these folks are often forced to do hideous things to the code for the wrong reasons - for marketing purposes, to subvert desirable standards, to present a moving target to prevent cloning, for backward compatibility with decade old hardware and software... If Microsoft programmers were allowed to write the best software they could - period - without worrying about screwing the competition or subverting existing standards, they would have some of the best apps and OSes in the world. But they don't, because Marketing and Management have fsck'ed up their programmers with many often conflicting requirements. This isn't just a programmer dilemma, btw. Those of you following the trial will probably notice how often, and how badly, Microsoft's execs lied during the trial. They repeatedly shot themselves in the collective foot (partially)by trying to cover too many bases. Dislike Microsoft as a corporation if you wish - I certainly do - dislike specific Microsoft executives if you wish, but don't slag Microsoft programmers as a group. They're no less competent and no more evil than any other group of programmers.
    Re:resignation is a solution (Score:1)
    by emorin (emorin_nospam_@videotron.ca) on Wednesday December 01, @08:07AM EST (#98)
    (User Info) http://linuxqc.citeglobe.com
    If M$ programmers are forced to do hideous things, then they should resign. I don't know of any programmer who respects is work that will stay with an employer who does not. M$ programmers are as guilty as any M$ marketing guy or corporate guy. I don't care how much $$$ they get paid for the job, they should quit.

    Regards
    Re:resignation is a solution (Score:1)
    by tc on Wednesday December 01, @08:26AM EST (#106)
    (User Info)
    Easy to say if you're not stock-optioned to the hilt. A couple of million dollars worth of stock options, especially if you have dependents, is quite something to just throw away. It's not even as though MS is the most evil corporation on the planet - plenty of chemical companies, or rainforest loggers that are IMHO far worse (and they all have IT departments).
    Re:resignation is a solution (Score:0, Troll)
    by Znork on Wednesday December 01, @08:54AM EST (#132)
    (User Info)
    Chemical companies inflict their pollution on a limited number of people, rainforest loggers ruin some ecology, but Microsofts products are inflicted upon, and causes daily loss of productivity and personal stress, stress related agression and the diseases associated with that such as ulcers, bloodpressure problems, heart problems, etc upon hundreds of millions of people. Every day. Name another company that gets away with that without having warning labels on their products? Add to that that you may be forced by companies to use those products in your job. I dont see how you can get more evil than that.
    Re:resignation is a solution (Score:1)
    by tc on Wednesday December 01, @11:30AM EST (#174)
    (User Info)
    It's just software. Ultimately, even if every computer in the world spontaneously combusted tomorrow, we'd still find a way to survive. However, if the environment gets screwed up too badly then it may not be possible at all.

    You seem to believe that rainforest logging or chemical dumping is some localised problem that only effects this group of people, or that patch of ecology. The truth is that these problems can affect everyone in the world, including the vast majority of people who have never even seen a computer, let alone been forced to use Office. What's worse is that the effects may be impossible to reverse, however much economic effort is expended.

    Furthermore, my original point was just to provide an example of something that was morally worse than working for MS. I'd reckoned without the rabid /. mentality that loading anthrax into Scud missiles (or whatever - it's just an example) is a more acceptable occupation than working for Bill.
    Re:resignation is a solution (Score:1)
    by Nerdy Spice on Thursday December 02, @07:36AM EST (#235)
    (User Info)
    There *are* other corporations, American and otherwise, that do far more morally reprehensible things than Microsoft.

    I regret that this may come as a shock to some people here.

    There may actually be other companies out there which are disliked more, and by more people.

    Mea culpa, I guess. If I hadn't gone off-topic with my post about Microsoft programmers we wouldn't be fighting over just how evil Microsoft really is.

    I'll back away from ethical issues here and focus
    on what I consider my major (and least offtopic) point: Never underestimate the abilities of Microsoft's R&D people. They are, as individuals, a match for open source people.

    The difference - the thing that makes open source people all dewy-eyed - is the great potential in writing the best software you possibly can without worrying about controlling a market or trying to fsck up as many competitors as you can.

    That had better of been sarcastic (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @12:08PM EST (#184)
    The one in Canada that let improperly stored agent orange to leak into the water supply. The gold processors that use murcury and then dump it into the Amazon. The wide use of DDT (out side the 1st world) The dumping of garbage into the oceans (like New York, The English don't apreciate the garbage that is collecting on thier south shores) The maga smoke-stack in Sudbury, Ont. Canada. The drag-netting of the ocean. The rushing of drugs like phalitamide(sp?) ....

    Your right these only effect a limited number of people (the population of the earth) or only ruin parts of the ecology (the living parts) but other than that they are of negligable effect when compaired to an annoying consumer product.
    Re:resignation is a solution (Score:0, Flamebait)
    by emorin (emorin_nospam_@videotron.ca) on Wednesday December 01, @09:27AM EST (#152)
    (User Info) http://linuxqc.citeglobe.com
    Let me answer that... So you are telling me that it is ok to do bad things if you are paid enough to do it? So, the more you are paid, the more bugs you produce!! Well, this must be why Linux has less bugs, because people are not paid to do it, most of the time!!!!

    I understand what is happening at M$, I worked for a company who forced us to deliver bad software because some marketing guys did a lousy job, corporate guys did not understand software, etc, etc, etc. But there is a limit, and I finally resigned, and let me tell you something, I FEEL GREAT ABOUT IT, EVERY F....G DAY!!!

    Anyway, I did own some stock, but not much... :-(

    Regards.
    Re:resignation is a solution (Score:1)
    by tc on Wednesday December 01, @11:17AM EST (#171)
    (User Info)
    I'm just pointing out that the cries of "resign!" are really rather glib. Very easy to say "I wouldn't take the money" when it's not actually being offered to you. Very easy to take the high moral ground when it's not actually you on the spot.

    I've quit my job because I didn't believe in the company I was working for anymore (I even took a paycut to do it), and yes, I felt better too. But at the same time, I'm honest enough to admit that if someone had offered me a couple million dollars to stay then I would have done.

    Does that mean I'd do anything for money? Of course not! Does it make me human? Yup.
    Re:resignation is a solution (Score:1)
    by Drooling Iguana on Thursday December 02, @09:14PM EST (#238)
    (User Info)
    The difference between Microsoft and the chemical companies and rainforest loggers is that the chem. companies and loggers simply do their thing without giving much thought to the problems they cause, wheras Microsoft actively tries to cause problems.
    ... If we always want what we don't have, we'll never have what we want.
    Noooo! (Score:1)
    by mike_sucks (mike(a)vee.net) on Wednesday December 01, @06:17AM EST (#15)
    (User Info) http://web.vee.net/
    I really hope this dosen't mean we're going to get a whole bunch of vendors renaming their OSs in a similar fasion.

    I can see the advocacy flames already..

    >>> QNX-Powered rulez..
    >> You don't know what you're fscking talking about
    >> everyone *knows* MacOSX Powered kicks all the
    > Get real, lamer! Windows Powered is much more swoonful

    Scheesh!
    Mike

    -- "So, what's the deal with Auntie Gerschwitz et all?"

    Re:Noooo! (Score:1)
    by weave (sdpost@weaverling.org) on Wednesday December 01, @06:24AM EST (#24)
    (User Info) http://www.weaverling.org/
    I really hope this dosen't mean we're going to get a whole bunch of vendors renaming their OSs in a similar fasion.

    Too late. Think about Tru64 UNIX, formerly Digital UNIX. :-)

    Re:Noooo! (Score:1)
    by mike_sucks (mike(a)vee.net) on Wednesday December 01, @06:40AM EST (#39)
    (User Info) http://web.vee.net/
    Yeah, where the hell did *that* come from? Trust a PC company to have absolutely no clue about UN*X, not even what they should call it.

    Mike.

    -- "So, what's the deal with Auntie Gerschwitz et all?"

    Re:Noooo! (Score:1)
    by GregWebb on Wednesday December 01, @07:56AM EST (#93)
    (User Info) http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ssu97gw/index.html
    Actually...

    Digital Unix made sense before. It was the Unix that Digital did. Now they don't exist, Digital becomes a descriptive wod rather than a branding, rather impying there's an analogue Unix out there...

    Tru64 may not be the best name in the world, but it's accurately showing that this is a proper 64-bit Unix. Which is at least honest.

    Greg
    Re:Noooo! (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @07:42AM EST (#81)
    There was a good reason for this.

    Compaq wanted to seperate Unix's identity from the company. Ie they wanted to give Digital Unix an independent identity.

    The rational is most likely composed of:

    1) Getting rid of the Digital identity. Compaq's stated goal was to absorb Digital into itself. The Digital brand was to dissapear. (and it has).

    2) They might have been thinking of selling, cross-licensing or spinning off Digital Unix when they first took over DEC. The new name would have had to be compatible with these goals.

    so there... there was a reason for it.

    -anon.

    DEC is still alive... DEC is still alive
    DEC -> CPQ
    poke-windows? (Score:1)
    by atopian on Wednesday December 01, @06:19AM EST (#16)
    (User Info) http://www.rangernet.dhs.org
    Argh.... Has that evil childrens obsession invaded every part of our life? whats next? Sailor Linux?
    "Its not a bug its a feature" -- Windows NT 3.0 beta software enginner http://www.rangernet.dhs.org/
    Re:poke-windows? (Score:1)
    by Zigg on Wednesday December 01, @08:02AM EST (#95)
    (User Info)

    ``Moon Penguin Power, Make-Up!''

    (sorry, couldn't resist...)


    "If you continue running Windows, your system may become unstable." - Windows 95 BSOD
    Re:poke-windows? (Score:1)
    by adric (haphazard@I-HATE-SPAM.socket.net) on Wednesday December 01, @08:05AM EST (#96)
    (User Info)
    Sailor Tux?
    ---
    Not plane, nor bird, nor even frog...
    Re:poke-windows? (Score:1)
    by Stephen Williams on Wednesday December 01, @08:07AM EST (#99)
    (User Info) http://www.nysa.u-net.com/

    Sailor Tux?

    TUXedo Kamen, surely? :-)

    -Stephen


    Re:poke-windows? (Score:1)
    by mfterman on Wednesday December 01, @11:45AM EST (#178)
    (User Info) http:////www.panix.com/~mfterman
    >TUXedo Kamen, surely? :-)

    I'm now going to have nightmares of Tux with that funny mask throwing roses all thanks to you. Or maybe he should be throwing CD-ROMs (a lot more damage capacity with those puppies than a rose)
    Re:poke-windows? (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @08:40AM EST (#115)
    Actually (if you factor out the obsessive parents), Pokemon isn't that bad. It certainly isn't bad enough to be compared to Windows!

    Anonymous Kev

    Re:poke-windows? (Score:3, Funny)
    by Millennium (rbg6038@spamspameggsbaconandspam.rit.edu) on Wednesday December 01, @09:18AM EST (#147)
    (User Info)
    Oh, great. Now you've got me started...

    "Jupiter Netscape Crash!"
    "Mars Pentium Processor Ignite!"
    "Venus Beowulf Chain Encircle!"
    "Mercury Microsoft Blast!"

    And of course my favorite...

    "Moon Kernel Compilation!"

    Sorry about the dub attacks; they seemed more appropriate somehow.
    -Millennium
    Re:poke-windows? (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @04:05PM EST (#217)
    It's wonderful to see so many moonies around /.! ^-^

    Re:poke-windows? (Score:1)
    by Chris Brewer (chrisbrewer@paradise.net.nzSPAMBEGONE(TM)) on Wednesday December 01, @02:10PM EST (#202)
    (User Info)
    No, no. It should just be Poke-win. Funny, everytime I see that yellow blob, I want to beat the living crap out of it. Maybe the same will happen with my toaster when it tells me that I need Windows-compatible bread to operate it.
    Marketing (Score:1, Insightful)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @06:19AM EST (#17)
    It doesn't matter how good or bad the software is, they have an excellent marketing department!
    Re:Marketing (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @06:52AM EST (#48)
    Yup, it's all about the $$$. People keep buying so what's the problem? If they can sell it, more power to them. It's like beer....Schlitz is piss-awful, but that doesn't mean they should quit selling it because I still get a good laugh when I see people buying it.
    More like "crippled" (Score:1)
    by jcr on Wednesday December 01, @06:22AM EST (#19)
    (User Info)
    Windows Crippled?

    Windows Wasted?

    Windows Brain-Damaged?
    Re:More like "crippled" (Score:1)
    by PigleT (spodzone@netscape.net) on Wednesday December 01, @06:26AM EST (#27)
    (User Info) http://www.glutinous.custard.org/
    Would we be able to sue them under the Trade Descriptions Act for not living up to the name?

    (This is a UK thing, where we have a sensible law...)
    ~Tim -- .|` Clouds cross the black moonlight, Rushing on down to the circle of the turning world .|`
    Re:More like "crippled" (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @07:41AM EST (#80)
    > (This is a UK thing, where we have a sensible law...)

    Yes, we do have a sensible law, but unfortunately we also have several tens of thousands of braindead ones.

    The name is *almost* right... (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @08:30AM EST (#109)
    But "Windows Powered" needs some re-arranging.

    Powered
    Windows

    There, that's better. Windows under powered.

    Or maybe...

    Windows
    Bloated Hyped

    Windows overbloated and overhyped.

    Of course you'll never see Window where horses
    are kept.. it's just not a stable product.

    - the idiot
    Re:More like "crippled" (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @12:13PM EST (#186)
    Why does this lame post even deserve a "1"?
    What is with this Industry and names? (Score:1)
    by Nothinman (nm666@^H^Hhome.com) on Wednesday December 01, @06:22AM EST (#21)
    (User Info)
    And I thought Athlon and Itanium were corney...

    --
    Linux - The GNU face of World Domination
    Re:What is with this Industry and names? (Score:1)
    by palop on Wednesday December 01, @09:44AM EST (#156)
    (User Info)
    well this salon story gives some explanation.
    http://www.salon.com/media/col/shal/1999/11/30/naming/index.html
    i think it the story is almost frightening.

    palop
    you should definetly read that link (Score:2)
    by delmoi (delmoi at hot mail dot com) on Wednesday December 01, @03:21PM EST (#212)
    (User Info)
    and here it is in clickable form:
    http://www.salon.com /media/col/shal/1999/11/30/naming/index.html .

    Its pretty entertaining, these people are crazy:
    It's this sort of chutzpah that makes the namers at Landor see red. "The Internet is filled with arrogance," says Amy Becker coldly. "You might have a provocative, fun name. But do you have the basis for a lasting brand? We still don't know how compelling a brand Yahoo will be 10 years from now. I sense a real missed opportunity."

    "Let's put it this way," says Redhill. "Over the years, we have created and sustained many of the world's most durable brands. We make a lot more hits than companies who think up their own symbols and names. I'm not suggesting that a company couldn't get it right with a stroke of insight or genius or luck. But if it's your own brand, how can you possibly be objective? I mean, would you name your own baby?"

    --"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?" Chad Okere, self-appointed Unquestioned Lord of the internet(TM)
    I didn't realise M$ were in the battery market (Score:2)
    by sufi (ben at spods.net) on Wednesday December 01, @06:25AM EST (#25)
    (User Info) http://www.spods.net
    And the point is?? Buzzword bingo again, sad thing is it actually works. People fall for the nice shine the M$ marketing merkins put on things. You can spray paint rust, and it may look like new, but it's stil rust, and it will still crumble eventually.
    What did CE stand for? (Score:2, Interesting)
    by Lars Arvestad (arve@nada.kth.se) on Wednesday December 01, @06:27AM EST (#28)
    (User Info) http://www.nada.kth.se/~arve
    The article says:
    By de-emphasizing "CE," which never actually stood for anything anyway, [...]

    Surely this is wrong? There must be some old meaning to CE!

    I mean, NT used to stand for "New Technology", although Micros~1 newspeak nowadays denies that. I can't believe they use a name that do not have any connotation.

    Lars

    --
    404 File Not Found
    Consumer Edition? (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @06:32AM EST (#32)
    I think that was it.
    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:2)
    by CormacJ (cormac@iol.ie) on Wednesday December 01, @06:34AM EST (#36)
    (User Info)
    CE = Compact Edition

    The original vision for CE would be that it was every that Windows 3.1 was, except smaller and ROMable.

    My guess is that they failed.
    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:1, Funny)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @07:23AM EST (#68)
    I called it Crippled Edition. Some even got the joke.
    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:1)
    by TummyX on Wednesday December 01, @11:50AM EST (#180)
    (User Info)
    Oh Please.

    It's not based on Win31. It's based on NT.

    It's a preemptive, multithreaded multasking OS with a microkernel.

    It has capabilities that PlamOS couldn't hope to reach any time soon.
    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:1)
    by DGolden (david.golden@ireland.com) on Wednesday December 01, @02:29PM EST (#204)
    (User Info)
    But, WinCE is hoeplessly outclassed, from a design standpoint, compared to EPOC32 (The Symbian/Psion OS).

    Not only that, the default UI of wince is grim, and needs serious reworking for palmtop use, whereas the only complaint I've ever heard levelled at the well-thought out EIKON UI on EPOC32 is double- click to run programs. Personally, I prefer single-click select, double-click to run, so EPOC suits me fine. It makes cut+paste much easier.

    EPOC32 is also more resource efficient than WinCE.



    Granted, PalmOS is pretty poor underneath the UI, but the UI is well thought-out and easy, unlike WinCE (WinCE is only remotely friendly if you've used ms windows before - I've never used ms windows as my primary computing platform, went Amiga m68k -> linux/m68k -> linux/i386)

    And wasn't there some sort of deal between Symbian and Palm? In future, it may be that they'll just transfer the PalmOS look 'n' feel to run on top of the EPOC32 kernel, for the keyboardless PDAs.

    Since the EPOC32 source code is mostly cross-platform C++, a port of EPOC32 to Motorola-arch CPUs as well as ARM and x86, makes sense. This could mean a binary-compatibility package somewhat like wine could be produced, that runs legacy PalmOS apps at native speed, provided EPOC is running on DragonBall.

    -- Just because you are right about some things, does not mean you are right about all things --
    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:1)
    by TummyX on Wednesday December 01, @10:26PM EST (#232)
    (User Info)
    The explorer shell is only one shell ...and designed for use in PalmPC and HandHeldPCs. I think it's fine - but not particularly great on Palm-sized PCs, but there's NOTHING to stop you replacing the shell with your own "more appropriate" shell.
    Infact, I think CASIO ship a nice one with the E105.

    I don't like the Palm default myself, and I usually install applauncher.

    BTW WinCE devices can run the Palm Emulator fine too.
    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:1)
    by evilandi on Wednesday December 01, @06:34AM EST (#37)
    (User Info) http://www.andrew.oakley.net

    Compact Edition, I thought. I'm sure I've seen that in official literature somewhere. Then again I'm probably talking out of my arse.

    --
    Andrew Oakley evilandi@cimmerii.demon.co.uk

    Crashes Easily. (Score:1)
    by Wakko Warner (wakko@qwerty.bitey.net) on Wednesday December 01, @06:48AM EST (#45)
    (User Info) http://bitey.net
    That about sums it up...

    - A.P.
    --


    "One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
    "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler

    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:1)
    by x24 on Wednesday December 01, @07:03AM EST (#55)
    (User Info)
    I always thought it stood for "chaotic evil"

    "All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost" - JRR Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:1)
    by wass on Wednesday December 01, @12:14PM EST (#187)
    (User Info)
    Haha, that had me ROFL.

    Maybe NT is for True Neutral, only with the letters reversed because they messed up the big-endian with small endian, or similar.

    "In a world without walls, who needs Windows" - Someone from LinuxToday
    "In a world without fences, who needs Gates" - Someone else from LinuxToday

    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:1)
    by Trurle (jhindin@netscape.net) on Saturday December 04, @06:06PM EST (#240)
    (User Info)
    Well, during launch of Windows NT there was rumors that it stands for next version of VMS: V->W M->N S->T
    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:1, Informative)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @07:23AM EST (#67)
    Consumer Electronics
    Caveat Emptor (Score:1)
    by Thag on Wednesday December 01, @09:11AM EST (#143)
    (User Info) http://www.users.fast.net/~acheson/
    Ok, "Compact Edition" was technically correct, but I couldn't resist! :)
    All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:2)
    by DragonHawk (dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com) on Wednesday December 01, @11:47AM EST (#179)
    (User Info)
    There must be some old meaning to CE!

    A lot of people have been saying it means "Compact Edition", but I always heard "Consumer Electronics". And if you think about it, Microsoft would never call it "Compact Edition", because that would admit that "regular" Windows is not compact.

    There are also the jokes:

    - Crashes Easy
    - Crashed Everything
    - Caveat Emptor
    - Chaotic Evil
    - Cannot Execute
    - Complete Excrement

    I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @12:07PM EST (#183)
    Off-topic, but I can't stand the suspense anymore! (AAARGH!) Not being a programmer, I am clueless as to the construct "Micros~1" which I see used all the time. How do you derive "Microsoft" from "Micros~1"? I mean, I am guessing that it is a brilliant piece of coder poetics, but I can't figure it out. Can anyone help me here?
    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:1)
    by BandSaw on Wednesday December 01, @12:51PM EST (#192)
    (User Info)
    this goes back to the name limits for dos files. dos files have a 8 character name and a 3 character extension. under w95, you can have long file names, but if you look at these file names under dos, they get truncated to the dos format.

    A number and the ~ get added to "help" you tell files apart which would have otherwise had the same name.. for example microsoftfoo.exe and microsoftbar.exe will be renamed to micros~1.exe and micros~2.exe

    under this naming convention, the name microsoft gets changed to micros~1


    Linux, of course. Why?

    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:1)
    by BorgDrone on Wednesday December 01, @12:27PM EST (#190)
    (User Info) http://linuxhome.n3.net
    ...NT used to stand for "New Technology"...

    doesn't NT stand for Neanderthaler Technology :-)
    ---
    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean THEY are not out to get you
    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:1)
    by slickwillie on Wednesday December 01, @01:20PM EST (#197)
    (User Info)
    Originally it was Compact Edition. When they realized that was too much of a stretch they changed to either Consumer Edition, or Consumer Electronics. I think I even saw yet another variation recently.
    CE = Compact Edition (Score:1)
    by rao on Wednesday December 01, @05:03PM EST (#224)
    (User Info)
    CE stands for Compact Edition.
    Re:What did CE stand for? (Score:1)
    by djKing (maxteman@hotmail.com) on Wednesday December 01, @09:50PM EST (#229)
    (User Info) http://plaza.powersurfr.com/djking/
    Computers Everywhere.


    Good != Safe [CS Lewis]
    Oxymoron! (Score:1)
    by Bander (nav@patriot.net) on Wednesday December 01, @06:30AM EST (#29)
    (User Info) http://patriot.net/~nav

    "Windows powered"... Heh.

    Sounds a lot like "military intelligence" or "government service," doesn't it?

    One day, I will have Emacs on my palmtop, then I will be happy (and TeX and a dvi viewer)... Well, okay, and Angband.

    Bander


    -- Louis Freeh, decrypt this: SHPX LBH!
    You forgot the biggest oxymoron of them all... (Score:1)
    by JackCat on Wednesday December 01, @07:49AM EST (#87)
    (User Info)

    .... "Microsoft Works"

    -- JackCat

    Re:MS Works (Score:1)
    by Wyatt Earp (wyatt@nospame.aracnet.com) on Wednesday December 01, @08:52AM EST (#129)
    (User Info)
    Now thats some sucky software.

    We have MS Works 4.0 on about 900 computers here...and it sucks. Well it sucks less on iMacs because iMacs don't seem to have the OLE crashing problem that older Macs do. But hey...we have a billion Works files so we can't migrate to anything newer.

    I love MS.

    BTW

    Wouldn't Windows Unpluged be a better name for Wince than Windows Powered?

    Ad Astra Per Aspera "A Rough Road Leads to the Stars"
    Many things will be Windows powered... (Score:1, Funny)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @06:30AM EST (#30)
    Surely when people wake up to how poor an operating system Windows is, many things will be powered by the electricity generated from burning copies - it would definately make running a Star 910 more economical :)
    Learn from Microsofts failure (Score:3, Insightful)
    by Markee on Wednesday December 01, @06:33AM EST (#35)
    (User Info)
    Microsoft has been fighting to get it's feet into the market of non-desktop computers. Looks as if they didn't succeed.

    Linux can and must learn from this.


    Same OS for different classes of devices is good for the company, but not necessarily for the customer. A software company can reduce maintenance costs by reducing the number of code bases. However, having the same look and feel for a Desktop PC and a set-top box or a wristwatch is, in my opinion, not desirable.
    A UI that was designed for choosing among 20 or more applications, switching back and forth between them, adding and configuring hardware and do extensive networking and interoperability is not the ideal UI for, say, a handheld device that features three applications, syncs automatically when in the cradle and must be usable by everyone who learned how to read a clock.

    Why is the Palm OS more successful in the palmtop arena? Because it is not an adapted desktop PC OS, but a genuine handheld device OS. (Imagine it on a desktop PC with a mouse - wouldn't work!) I hope that Linux won't make the same mistake. I'd love to see Linux on a lot of sub-PC class devices, but please don't expect it to feature a full-blown X server or even KDE or whatever. Make it a small, efficient, stable and secure Linux subset with a dedicated user interface. Let Microsoft go astray on its own.
    Re:Learn from Microsofts failure (Score:4, Insightful)
    by konstant on Wednesday December 01, @06:58AM EST (#51)
    (User Info)
    Microsoft has been fighting to get it's feet into the market of non-desktop computers. Looks as if they didn't succeed.

    I disagree. My impression of Microsoft's efforts in this arena is that they are reserving a slice of market/mindshare in the palmtop market so that they don't have to "get their feet in" when the company really decides to care.

    Most of the recent Microsoft promotion has dealt with Windows2000, a system clearly designated for machines well out of the palmtop range. M$ is aware that the market may eventually pay more attention to palmhelds, but their most recent mantra change from "A computer on every desk in every home" to "Great products anywhere anytime" is more oriented towards providing "services" from Win2k servers to PC users. Microsoft apparently thinks palmtops will be used to access those services, but it does not envision the PC obsolescing any time soon. If and when the palmtop becomes a truly large market (on the scale of the personal computer) then M$ won't have to claw its way into a PalmOS-dominated market. It will at least have a name and presence to trade upon.

    However, this does not diminish the possibility that a stripped-down Linux version might do something similar in the mean time. Otherwise we'll all be demonizing The Monopolist Palm in 10 years :)
    -konstant
    Yes! We are all individuals! I'm not!
    Re:Learn from Microsofts failure (Score:3, Informative)
    by Zoltar on Wednesday December 01, @09:21AM EST (#149)
    (User Info)
    I respectfully disagree with you.

    First, yes MS has been putting some major resources into their W2K push, however I don't feel that relates directly with the palm market. MS has such enormous resources I really can't believe that they are limiting efforts in one area due to any other area.

    Second, I don't think MS wants to *just* have a market presence in any market, they want to dominate. (As any company would)

    Third, I think that MS misjudged (thus far) what the palm market wants. They probably assumed that the standard marketing methods combined with their powerfull distribution channels and the Microsoft/Windows brand would allow them to win by default.

    Fourth, If they learned anything from their early (lack of) internet strategies it was that you shouldn't underestimate the potential of any given market. The palm/wireless market might be small potatoes today but it is poised to explode over the next few years. I really don't think they want to miss this boat.
    Re:Learn from Microsofts failure (Score:1)
    by IntlHarvester (vcs2600@yahoo.com) on Wednesday December 01, @03:00PM EST (#209)
    (User Info)
    Third, I think that MS misjudged (thus far) what the palm market wants.

    One thing to understand about Microsoft is that every product they put out will be either oriented towards one of their big revenue streams or it'll be dropped. This means that if a product can't be hardwired into Windows or MS Office, Microsoft sees little value in it. I don't think they are necessary worried about dominating every single market, but they are worried about markets or potential markets that can cut into their revenue streams.

    In the case of WinCE palmtops, I don't think to set out to dominate the palm/embedded market but instead mistakenly designed the palm devices to be value-add extentions to Microsoft Office, and the settop boxes to be extensions of MSN. They ignored the new markets and looked to Wince as an extention to the markets they were already in.

    They made their marketing play to the IT Manager types that were supposedly going to support palm devices as integrated computing equipment. This hasn't happened yet, and if it has the IT geeks are probabbly more familiar with Pilots anyway. But, if someday Palm devices are standard corporate supported equipment, the supposed Windows/Office 'integration' will give Microsoft a much stronger sell.

    --
    Plagiarism is necessary. Progress demands it.
    Re:Learn from Microsofts failure (Score:3, Interesting)
    by Gurlia (sweetswale@swalecove.zots.org) on Wednesday December 01, @07:33AM EST (#76)
    (User Info)

    Ahh, the wonder of configurability in Linux! As I've said couple of times already, I believe that to do something well, you've got to have that thing as your focus. In this context, it means that for an OS to integrate well in a palmtop, it has to be configured, designed, for palmtops.

    Now the beauty of Linux is that it's not inseparably bound to a particular GUI, like Windows is. The Linux kernel can be adapted more easily than Windows can to the palmtop platform, IMHO. But of course, only the kernel and a few basic system apps should be the same as a PC Linux configuration... an X server, or KDE, etc., may not fit very well in this scenario, and attempting to shoe-horn things is always a sign that something is not quite right with your configuration. What we really want is a UI that is specifically directed at palmtops. Anything less than that would simply not fit.


    --- mikre he sophia he tou Mikrosophou. (Just my silly parody on M$ :-)
    Win CE was supposed to replace 9x? (Score:1)
    by ballestra (benNOballard@mindSPAMspring.com) on Wednesday December 01, @08:52AM EST (#131)
    (User Info)
    When Windows CE was first announced, wasn't it supposed to be a simpler re-write of Windows. I thought I read somewhere that they would use the simple Win CE for palms and such, but eventually they would scale it up for PCs to replace the bloated legacy-code Windows. They DO have Win CE "Win Terminals", which are kind of like network computers. Did they give up on this, or did WinCE code become part of W2K?

    Another interesting thing I read once was that in a meeting, the Windows CE team was presenting a marketing plan to Bill, and they were saying how they needed to raise the price to make any money on it. Bill told them they were all wrong, because the point isn't to make a profit now, it's to gain marketshare. He reminded them how they used to sell MS-DOS for like $10 and didn't worry about profit, because the goal was to maximize marketshare. Then once in position, they could raise prices and make obscene profits. We all know that's the strategy, I'm just glad they're not so successful this time.
    If you let them do it to you, you've got yourself to blame. -Pete Townshend

    Re:Win CE was supposed to replace 9x? (Score:1)
    by IntlHarvester (vcs2600@yahoo.com) on Wednesday December 01, @02:47PM EST (#207)
    (User Info)
    Wince Terminals seemed like a good idea, but the advent of $400 Windows 98 PCs pretty much eliminated that from MS's standpoint. Think about it -- the costs of supporting a mixed Office 97/PocketOffice environment are going to outweigh any minor cost savings Wince would give you. (If you want a WTS/Citrix client, you can use any ol' 586 PC.)

    They'd much rather push Win2000's remote management features on a standard PC because it keeps the users where the applications are (which incidentially is MS's primary revenue stream). What if WinCE took off, but people started using "WordPerfect for WinCE" because PocketOffice was so crappy?
    --
    Plagiarism is necessary. Progress demands it.
    Re:Learn from Microsofts failure (Score:1)
    by _Marvin_ on Wednesday December 01, @08:20AM EST (#103)
    (User Info)
    I think you're right. One of the major problems of WinCE is its GUI: it looks crap on grayscale displays and color displays are expensive and power-consuming. And we shouldn't make the same mistakes.
    But I think we don't have to worry about this: Linux features dozens of different GUIs (Window managers, KDE, Gnome). Many of them are themeable. Whilst all of this (well, especially the themeability) didn't have any technical advantages up to now (it just gave users the possibility to make their desktop look neat), it will have in the future: There will be a dedicated WM (possibly developed from the codebase of some existing WM) with a small footprint for Palmsize computers with special themes for lo-res b&w displays, hi-res grayscale displays, hi-res color displays and so on. (And, like it or not, one day there will also be Palms running KDE or Gnome with a special Palmtheme).
    We'll show them how much more flexible Linux is!

    I haven't checked any of my claims, /. will check them for me!
    Unix did this long ago. So did GEOS. (Score:2)
    by DragonHawk (dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com) on Wednesday December 01, @11:21AM EST (#172)
    (User Info)
    I essentially agree with you on your points about why Wince has problems -- forcing inappropriate metaphors and techniques onto the UI for handheld device.

    It is worth pointing out that Unix learned this long ago. The GUI in Unix is not bound up in the OS itself, like it is on Windows. Even if you run X, the "look and feel" can be changed at will. This is one of Unix's greatest strengths.

    Linux does an even better job. One of the reasons Linux scales so well between platforms is that you have the complete source. Thus, if you are targeting an embedded system, you can reconfigure the kernel to exclude inappropriate and unneeded parts, and recompile.

    I am not sure if the X protocol would be appropriate for a handheld device. On the one hand, X tends to have a lot of overhead, enough to swamp a device like the Palm Pilot. On the other hand, hardware keeps improving all the time, and having a single protocol for the low-level graphics interface has some nice advantages. I've used a prototype of Compaq's Itsy, and it runs X on a credit card sized screen with no apparent performance problem. And the ability to run a program on a big machine, but have it display on a handheld with a wireless connection, would be very cool. I think only time will tell how this will turn out.

    Of course, if you went the X route on a handheld, the UI toolkits used by most of the software for the handheld would have to be different, or you run into the same problems as Wince. But building on the foundation of X would still have advantages, and you could run a "desktop UI style" program in a pinch if you had do.

    Anyone else here remember PC/GEOS from GeoWorks? It was a GUI for MS-DOS that enabled multitasking, long file names, and more cool stuff, all on an 8086 CPU. There was also a version of it for PDA's (Tandy's now-defunct Zoomer being the most popular one to use it, IIRC). One of the really neat things about GEOS was the fact that the GUI functions were abstracted before being presented to the applications. Thus, you could take a program from the desktop version, put in on the handheld, and its UI would change to a pen-based metaphor automatically. Very cool.

    Just my 1/4 of a byte. ;-)

    I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
    Re:Unix did this long ago. So did GEOS. (Score:1)
    by DGolden (david.golden@ireland.com) on Wednesday December 01, @02:37PM EST (#205)
    (User Info)
    AFAIK, GEOS is now called New Deal. It's still around, and is very cool - turn a 286 PC into a full-featured desktop.

    www.newdealinc.com
    -- Just because you are right about some things, does not mean you are right about all things --
    Re:Learn from Microsofts failure (Score:1)
    by S_hane (s_h_a_n_e@student.unsw.edu.au - remove the '_'s) on Wednesday December 01, @06:27PM EST (#227)
    (User Info)
    Linux is already very well suited to this, then, for two reasons:

    (1) The window manager is seperate from X _AND_ seperate from the kernel. This means that new cut-down versions of the WM and of X can fairly easily be tailor-made for embedded-type products. (Also can be replaced with relative ease...)

    (2) The source for all the different bits are free, so _anyone_ can write a new Window Manager!!!! If we ever get a linux embedded system similar to the Palm Pilots, not only will people be able to download ne apps into it, but also new interfaces! Kewl!

    -Shane Stephens

    WIN CE is losing marketshare. (Score:1)
    by arcade (ar-RemoveThis-cade@kvinesdal.com) on Wednesday December 01, @06:40AM EST (#40)
    (User Info) http://arcade.kvinesdal.com
    The problem with Windows CE is that MicroSoft cannot make much money of it. The hardware prices are dropping, and nobody will pay TOO much for a palmpilot. If the palms get as expensive as laptops, people will buy a laptop. palms need to cost less than half that price, preferably even less than a third.

    Then microsoft suddenly faces a problem. How much is it possible to get paid, for an operativ system for these thingomajigs? Not much -- if we want to believe Eric S. Raymonds -- who had made this one of "The 7 bullets Microsoft need to dodge within the next 18 months".

    And this is one of the points I think he is right about. Just look at all the hardware makers abandoning CE. :-)


    --
    "Rune Kristian Viken" - arcade@kvine-nospam.sdal.com - arcade@efnet
    Reminds me of the 70's (Score:3, Insightful)
    by kmcardle (mcardlekATmed-lifeDOTcom) on Wednesday December 01, @06:41AM EST (#41)
    (User Info)
    Back in the 1970's, Japanese car companies were very quietly working to make their products better, cheaper, and more fuel efficient.

    American car companies were changing the positions of the headlights.

    I'm sure ms could have spent the marketing focus group money on hiring some talent to make wince better. Or they just could have bought Handspring (is that right?) and manufactured Palm clones. Oh wait, maybe the DOJ would have frowned on that. ;>

    --
    so it comes to be that the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way
    Re:Reminds me of the 70's (Score:1)
    by Black Parrot on Wednesday December 01, @07:19AM EST (#64)
    (User Info)
    I think you've hit on something with your reference to the auto industry -

    Micorsoft is trying to get Detroit to use WinCE to manage the power windows in their cars. Then the price tag can say,

    Windows, powered

    --
    It's October 6th. Where's W2K? Over the horizon again, eh?
    [991015: Now they're saying Maybe February.]
    Re:Reminds me of the 70's (Score:1)
    by RobNich on Wednesday December 01, @08:34AM EST (#111)
    (User Info)
    ROFL!!!


    "If that is the way that the wind is blowing then let them say that I also blow." --Mayor Quimby
    Re:Reminds me of the 70's (Score:2)
    by Bearpaw on Wednesday December 01, @09:31AM EST (#153)
    (User Info)
    . I'm sure ms could have spent the marketing focus group money on hiring some talent to make wince better. Or they just could have bought Handspring (is that right?) and manufactured Palm clones. Oh wait, maybe the DOJ would have frowned on that. ;>

    Well, (a) Hawkins and Dubinsky would likely slit their throats before selling Handspring to anyone, let alone MS, (b) Handspring doesn't own PalmOS, 3Com/Palm Computing does, and (c) MS doesn't make handhelds, it just licenses WinCE (or tries to!) to people who do.

    Re:Reminds me of the 70's (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @01:30PM EST (#198)
    You mean it's not the seventies anymore.

    Oh man.
    Bad WinCE jokes... (Score:2, Funny)
    by Noryungi (n o r y u n g i @ y a h o o . c o m) on Wednesday December 01, @06:50AM EST (#47)
    (User Info) http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/cgi?name=noryungi%40yahoo.com&cmd=user_stats
    Is it me, or does that thing sound like (ahem) Prince?

    You know, the old saw: "The Operating System formerly known as Windows CE..." =)
    Sorry: "The Operating System formerly known as WinCE..."

    And what does that "CE" stands for? "Crash Extremely fast"? "Carry Excess bagagge?" "Could not Exchange data with desktop?"

    And what about the new name -- "Powered by Windows"? Why not "Crashed by Windows"? That's more like it...

    Don't you just love heaping scorn on the largest software company in the world? What are we going to do once it has faded back into a richly deserved irrelevence?
    Noryungi.
    Re:Bad WinCE jokes... (Score:2)
    by Mike Buddha (mike.buddha@eudoramail.com) on Friday December 03, @03:41AM EST (#239)
    (User Info)
    And what does that "CE" stands for? "Crash Extremely fast"? "Carry Excess bagagge?" "Could not Exchange data with desktop?"

    Caveat Emptor


    by Mike Buddha the #1 Carrot-Top Fan!!! He got red hair! He so funny!
    First version numbers, now names (Score:2, Interesting)
    by Rob Kaper (cap@capsi.com) on Wednesday December 01, @06:56AM EST (#50)
    (User Info) http://capsi.com/
    This once more emphasises how important marketing has become (or remained) in the computer industry.

    We all know how version numbers are inflated for marketing purposes. Using dates such as Windows 98 or October Gnome actually make sense though, being release dates not version numbers, which is a lot more comprehensable by the public.

    However, it's not that simple anymore as product names are completely revamped as well. Windows NT is now called Windows 2000, the single-user variant will now be called Millennium instead. And now Windows CE is called Powered.

    Looks like Redmond thinks that renaming a product throws away all the legacy and actually makes the product better. Unfortunately the marketing droids are actually able to sell that story to a lot of people too.

    Re:First version numbers, now names (Score:1)
    by Fesh (eric/fesh@wcom/com) on Wednesday December 01, @08:59AM EST (#135)
    (User Info)
    Well, part of this may have come from the decision against Intel that numbers cannot be trademarks (? feel free to correct me, I think they sued Cyrix or something?), which led to the 586 being named the Pentium. Things have just gone downhill from there. Now the combined force of marketing has apparently decided that the average consumer can't handle numbers for product differentiation. Sad part is, they're probably right.

    --Fesh
    My email has been /. encoded.
    How about thin windows? (Score:1)
    by Ice Station Zebra on Wednesday December 01, @06:59AM EST (#53)
    (User Info) http://microsoft-verysmallandsoft-helpthemregainthat-getlinux.com
    "Under Microsoft's vision, Windows CE-based devices will simply be one more thin client for server computers based on Windows 2000,"



    Re:How about thin windows? (Score:1)
    by the_tsi (wNiOlSlPiAeM@perigee.net) on Wednesday December 01, @07:36AM EST (#77)
    (User Info)
    In THAT case, it's a move in the right direction for Microsoft. Any way they can make themselves more like Oracle is a way they can stick around for another six months.

    -Chris
    Re:How about thin windows? (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @12:21PM EST (#189)
    except that oracle TRULY has no competitors in the RDBMS market.

    (yeah, yeah, let's hear it. sybase rules! informix rules! ingres rules! postgres rules! blah blah blah. they all suck in comparison.)


    Re:How about thin windows? (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @05:08PM EST (#225)
    IBM DB2 rules. It doesn't suck in comparison, probably about equal. It just isn't marketed as well and not as many people know that it runs on little unix and intel boxes too.
    Re:How about thin windows? (Score:1)
    by GregWebb on Wednesday December 01, @08:00AM EST (#94)
    (User Info) http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ssu97gw/index.html
    No, you couldn't have thin windows...

    Y'see, thin windows let in noise and break easily. They're aiming for thick uPVC triple glazing if you believe the marketting.

    Or maybe it'd be a good name after all...

    Greg
    Re:How about thin windows? (Score:1)
    by An0nymousC0ward (president@whitehouse.gov) on Wednesday December 01, @08:10AM EST (#100)
    (User Info) http://www.slashdot.org
    Thin Windows TBE = Thin windows that break easily.
    a real zero.
    The new Windows from Japan (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @07:03AM EST (#56)
    Chinpoko-Windows.
    Re:The new Windows from Japan (Score:1)
    by OdinHuntr (ebourg@SPAM_ME_NOT_po-box.mcgill.ca) on Wednesday December 01, @07:19AM EST (#65)
    (User Info) http://ghww128.res.mcgill.ca
    and our nations IS tech crew take off in fighter jets to bomb finland? :)


    [OdinHuntr]--[This is all for Aiur, you realize.]

    The OS formerly known as WinCE... (Score:2, Insightful)
    by Elvii (elvii@nospamhereplease.writeme.com) on Wednesday December 01, @07:06AM EST (#57)
    (User Info) http://www.psnw.com/~elvis
    I recently got a palm III, after comparing them to WinCE devices. I decided I wanted the extra battery life and a OS designed for a small platform, not a cut-down-yet-another API to support version of windows. So they rename WinCE, so people will still realize it's still the same ball game. The PDA game goes on. It's been said before, but spiliting windows into so many versions is *very* bad, you gotta admit, no matter what your views are on MS.

    But one thing is sure, "Windows Powered" probably aren't gonna be better than the current WinCE crop. MS should just break down and liscence/use/enhance either PalmOS or EPOC32 or some other suitable PDA OS, imho. I don't think I'm the only one who sees no future in WinCE, thou IANASE (I Am Not A Software Engineer)

    David


    bash: ispell: command not found
    Remove the obvious to email me.
    Win-CE... (Score:2)
    by Cheerio Boy on Wednesday December 01, @07:06AM EST (#58)
    (User Info)
    Re-nameing WINCE won't help all that much. A properly written version would. (Yes, I KNOW a properly written piece of software is beyond the scope of Micro$oft but it's still true.)

    Somewhat Off-Topic: The only thing that I had a problem with was that most manufacturers have, until recently, put WINCE into ROM giving us no other option. If it's flashable at least we'd have the choice to test it for ourselves and decide which we want to use.

    Does anybody know if the ROM thing was a MS requirement early on?

    Regardless of all that - unless the O/S has changed much they'll probably continue to lose out to Palm(tm) or Visor(tm) on sales. It's hoggish for resources and very proprietary - end of story.

    I think it's the "If we can't dazzle them with brilliance..." routine.
    Re:Win-CE is *not* Proprietary. (Score:1)
    by cybrthng (cybrthng@pimp.org) on Wednesday December 01, @08:42AM EST (#117)
    (User Info) http://www.pimp.org
    *Ahem*

    Windows CE is not proprietary

  • based on Win32s libraries
  • Using common Windows objects
  • uses compact flash standards
  • Uses existing MIPS, Arm and X86 Cpu's
  • Uses existing compilers (i'm using gcc)
  • has a common gui
  • On the other hand, what other PDA uses any features that *are not* proprietary

    Springboard?, Sony memory stick? api? processor portability?

    BTW: I can and do run linux on these Casio's i'm speaking of. I may even give freeBSD a try :) 86.05 bogomips for a PalmPC sure is nice!
    my thoughts exactly.

    Re:Win-CE is *too* Proprietary. (Score:1)
    by Surazal on Wednesday December 01, @09:12AM EST (#144)
    (User Info) http://surazal.nerp.net

    *Ahem*

    Windows CE is not proprietary

    *Cough* *Hack*

    Yes it is. :^)

    • based on Win32s libraries
    • Using common Windows objects
    • has a common gui

    • Proprietary (show me the open standards body in charge of the Win32 API not under MS's employ and then I'll concede your argument that it's not proprietary)
    • Proprietary
    • Since when did having a common GUI have anything to do with proprietarship? CDE for Unix has a common GUI too but that's still proprietary.

    On the other hand, what other PDA uses any features that *are not* proprietary

    Personally, I'd like to see what Cygnus's offering (Eros I believe its called) is doing... I heard they made a couple of deals. Open Source embedded OS's are definitely on the way. Till then I'll stick to Palm (hopefully I'll actually get one later this year).

    ta-ta

    ---

    "Bill Gates and Richard Stallman Meet in Airport; Thousands Killed in Resulting Explosion. News at 11."

    Re:Win-CE is *too* Proprietary. (Score:2)
    by Cheerio Boy on Wednesday December 01, @09:26AM EST (#151)
    (User Info)
    Absolutely! I can't find hardly anything IN Win-CE, or Windows for that matter, that isn't proprietary. The only things that seem to get made in some semblance of standardness are those that get crammed down Micro$oft's throat! (Can you say JAVA?)

    And of course (Score:2)
    by Chris Johnson (chrisj@airwindows.com) on Wednesday December 01, @10:03AM EST (#162)
    (User Info) http://www.airwindows.com
    OpenGL.

    doh!

    Re:And of course (Score:1)
    by TummyX on Wednesday December 01, @11:43AM EST (#177)
    (User Info)
    OpenGL is just a graphics library (on windows it runs ontop of DirectX).

    DirectX was designed to allow windows applications to directly access video memory, it also has sound, and networking apis.
    OGL (Score:2)
    by delmoi (delmoi at hot mail dot com) on Wednesday December 01, @03:54PM EST (#214)
    (User Info)
    OGL does not run on top of DirectX. Infact now Hardware companys are spending more time on OGL drivers then Direct3d drivers now, beacuse Quake and all its dirivatives run on GL. Since quake is the 'standard' in gaming, cards that run quake better sell better. (This is especialy true of nVidia.)
    --"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?" Chad Okere, self-appointed Unquestioned Lord of the internet(TM)
    Java (Score:2)
    by delmoi (delmoi at hot mail dot com) on Wednesday December 01, @03:55PM EST (#215)
    (User Info)
    Java is proprietary to.
    --"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?" Chad Okere, self-appointed Unquestioned Lord of the internet(TM)
    Java is an Open Standard (Score:1)
    by the red pen on Wednesday December 01, @04:57PM EST (#222)
    (User Info)
    Java is proprietary to.

    Wrong.

    Java is a trademark. Java standards are open. There are several open source implementations of it. They are just not called "Java" because they have not licensed the Java trademark. They still run Java code and that's the important part.

    Sun is walking a fine line trying to keep ownership of Java while keeping it open. There's a lot of whining going on about what Sun is doing, but the fact is that you can run Java Freely (if the FSF meaning of "free") if you want.

    Re:Win-CE is *too* Proprietary. (Score:1)
    by cybrthng (cybrthng@pimp.org) on Wednesday December 01, @10:02AM EST (#161)
    (User Info) http://www.pimp.org
    What does an open body have to do with proprietary?

    Microsoft set the standard of PC's, like it or not. Through monopolistic practices or just through luck, microsoft has built the standard and developed them through Win32's.

    And through the existing standards, YES. the WindowsCE devices are NOT proprietary, but an extension to the products that microsoft offers (albeit a bit smaller, but very much so an extension)

    Even *WITH* a governing body, a standard is proprietary until you and i adpot it. and really, it isn't a standard until its adopted hehe..

    But hell, i can even connect my CE to linux, and other unices, it uses a standard serial port to do so.. unlike the USB port on some other well known models :)

    i'm not defending *anything* except that my lil windows ce based Cassio E-105 works beautifully, as advertised, and as sold. And so have the 2 other Handheld PC's with WindowsCE.

    friend or foe of microsoft, thats not my issue. But the work being done, microsoft changing the marketing, repositioning the product shows that they work, and that they are sticking it out in the market. a far cry from whats commonly posted on here and other "news" sites.
    my thoughts exactly.

    Re:Win-CE is *too* Proprietary. (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @11:28AM EST (#173)
    You don't get it. Whatever MSFT chooses to name it -- "WinCE" or "Windows Powered" -- it does not change the fact that it is proprietary. I.e., they own Win32 which is proprietary software; the product depends on Win32; thus the product is proprietary. MSFT wears the pants. Understand, now?
    Re:Win-CE is *too* Proprietary. (Score:2)
    by cybrthng (cybrthng@pimp.org) on Wednesday December 01, @01:10PM EST (#195)
    (User Info) http://www.pimp.org
    so what if microsoft owns it, its documented, its been duplicated on Unix, duplicated within OS/2. Everything is "owned" or "copyrighted".

    I can buy a package to let me cross compile win32s apps under linux, solaris, hpux and such. You can buy the source.

    There is a difference between proprietary and free. Say you have the Specs to MP3, thats the same information you have from Windows. You have the Specs to the API, But you have to lease the decoder from franhaufer or however it is spelled or write your own. Just like microsoft, you would have to lease the rights to the api or write your won.

    But the specs are out, you can buy a 3 book series that describes them all in detail.

    Microsoft may A) Own it B) Wrote it C) Use it, but it is the standard and therefore A) not proprietary B) Fully Documented C) Portable (ahem.. powerPC, Mips, X86, Arm).


    my thoughts exactly.

    Re:Win-CE is *too* Proprietary. (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @02:38PM EST (#206)
    You obviously do not know what proprietary means. From Webster's:

    proprietary: something that is used, produced, or marketed under exclusive
    legal right of the inventor or maker

    Now, how can you claim WinCE is not proprietary? Are you going to pull a
    Microsoft and somehow squirm out of this by redefining things?

    I have wasted enough time on you.


    Re:Win-CE is *too* Proprietary. (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @04:57PM EST (#221)
    I dont agree with you. Exclusive legal right does not make a system closed or non-propreitary as long as the specs of that system are open.

    By that definition, you could say that IBM 390 series ( or any other ) mainframes are propreitary - whereas the PC is not. How about the BIOS ? The original ROM BIos was copyrighted. However since the specs were open, it allowed competitors to make a clean room implementation of the BIOS without violating the copyright.
    Anagrams (Score:3, Interesting)
    by Black Parrot on Wednesday December 01, @07:16AM EST (#62)
    (User Info)
    wee Windows prod

    down, swore, wiped!

    worse down, wiped!

    wiped, drowns woe

    we do per Windows

    owed per Windows

    we respond "widow"

    redwood WINpews

    endows Word wipe

    weep, disown Word

    And this interesting pair:

    we window dopers
    pro windows weed

    Get yours at http://www.anagramfun.com/cgi-bin/anagrams.cgi

    And remember - Microsoft is the master of marketing, so take a clue from them: if your product doesn't sell, change it's name!

    --
    It's October 6th. Where's W2K? Over the horizon again, eh?
    [991015: Now they're saying Maybe February.]
    Re:Anagrams (Score:1)
    by manasink on Wednesday December 01, @09:57AM EST (#158)
    (User Info)
    Those are good, check these out:

    WinCE instead of Palm? --> Fiend! A complaint we sew!
    microsoft wins case? --> cosmic software sin
    microsoft office development? --> development is of comic effort
    Gates versus Linus? --> Evil ass, gurus sent.


    =8^/
    New "Official" Name (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @07:18AM EST (#63)
    OK, so now instead of "WinCE" it'll be "Windows Under-Powered".
    Other names.... (Score:1)
    by SmileyBen on Wednesday December 01, @07:20AM EST (#66)
    (User Info) http://ben.smiley.org
    If Windows did release their own distribution of Linux, do you think they'd call it 'Open Windows'?

    And more importantly, is Windows in France called French Windows???

    ;-)
    Re:Other names.... (Score:1)
    by david42 (david /at/ fortytwo.8m.com) on Wednesday December 01, @07:39AM EST (#78)
    (User Info) http://fortytwo.8m.com/
    No, but it does have systeme d'exploitation in big letters on the box. :)

    -- "We all know you're soft cos we've all seen you dancing. We all know you're hard cos we've all seen you drinking from noon until noon again" -- Belle & Seb
    Slavery system? (Score:1)
    by BlueUnderwear on Wednesday December 01, @08:46AM EST (#121)
    (User Info)
    Quite appropriate...
    Re:Other names.... (Score:1)
    by Foogle (foogle@adelphia.net) on Wednesday December 01, @08:28AM EST (#107)
    (User Info)
    No... I think it would be called Fenetres, but my French is lousy :-)

    -----------

    "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
    - They Might Be Giants

    Re:Other names.... (Score:1)
    by Blrfl on Wednesday December 01, @09:03AM EST (#137)
    (User Info)
    Fortunately, Sun trademarked the OpenWindows name about twelve years ago.

    -- Blrfl
    Windows "Powered" Windows "CE" Has its place. (Score:4, Insightful)
    by cybrthng (cybrthng@pimp.org) on Wednesday December 01, @07:24AM EST (#69)
    (User Info) http://www.pimp.org
    Windows CE devices are great. The OS may not be the best, but they work.

    Figure this. My Cassiopeia E-105 has 32 megs of ram, i have a compact flash IBM MicroDrive with over 340 megs of storage.

    I get all of the following features

  • Music MP3 or WMF
  • PIM Software
  • Not only music, stereo sound
  • 65K colors, active matrix screem
  • Small, sturdy device
  • WindowsCE lets me code easily for network applications, it lets me surf the web, port over existing applications, and follows the same legacy as the Desktop OS.

    Windows CE makes a powerfull embedded OS. Infact it may do too much for being embedded, but it works.

    I've long since ditched all my other PDA's and handhelds and enjoy my handheld pc.

    Plus, i've got GCC compiling WindowsCE binaries for mips processors now, and will be releasing a Cygwin based version for people to download, and i will help support open source applications under WindowsCE because WindowsCE gets the job done, and rather well.


    my thoughts exactly.

    And a 15 minute battery life! :-) (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @07:45AM EST (#84)
    .
    Re:And a 15 minute battery life! :-) (Score:1)
    by cybrthng (cybrthng@pimp.org) on Wednesday December 01, @07:54AM EST (#90)
    (User Info) http://www.pimp.org
    err wrongo again.. 6 hours playing mp3's, 8-10 hours of nonstop under normal wear and tear.

    for palm pc usage, this equates to about a weeks worth of battery power. considering it charges while i'm synchronizing and its itc cradle, its never died on me.

    You can also purchase 75 hour batteries now.


    my thoughts exactly.

    Re:And a 15 minute battery life! :-) (Score:1)
    by quasipunk guy (tsunake at yahoo dot com) on Wednesday December 01, @03:56PM EST (#216)
    (User Info)
    Well, you're definitely a WinCE (or Casio Exx) zealot, but you need to remember, not everyone fits your same situation. My Palm III is worth much more to me than my E100. It has a longer battery life, it will sync with ALL of my computers, and it's significantly smaller. Sure, it's fast, and the screen is nice, but it attempts to be too much. The pen based interface is limiting, to me, and if I need anything taken down, I use the palm. Sure, playing mp3's is nice, but it's not that great. I haven't done it yet, but using my E100 (functionally the same as the 105) to browse a webpage or IRC on it seems like it would be rather pointless. A Libretto or some other sub-mini-nano-notebook makes much more sense in that situation. Playing solitaire in color got me a lot of 'ooh cool's but otherwise I was largely dissatisfied with my WinCE devices (I've had others, one an HP/C and they were all much too large, and the battery life was much too short, in my experience)
    Re:Windows "Powered" Windows "CE" Has its place. (Score:4, Insightful)
    by Zigg on Wednesday December 01, @08:13AM EST (#101)
    (User Info)

    Congratulations, you have found the device that you want for your needs.

    I had a handheld CE device for some time. Its touchscreen recently broke so it's only usable with the keyboard. But even before then, I had the following beefs with it:

    1. Its scheduling app was not something that made sense on a handheld or palm-based device. It felt just like a copy of Outlook (which ties in with point #3, btw.)

    2. The traditional Windows GUI metaphors just don't work on handheld devices. I mean, come on, we're going to simulate right-clicking by holding down Alt and tapping?

    3. It only syncs with Microsoft products. I can't emphasize enough how terrible that really is. I've been slowly migrating to FreeBSD and Linux more and more for all my ``desktop'' work. They do a good job of being compatible with each other. However, my H/PC, as well as Outlook itself (which can import iCal/vCard but can't export them), hold the data I've trusted them with very close and don't let it go.

    CE just bothers me. Its interface is unintuitive for doing what I expect a handheld or palm unit to do first and foremost -- calendaring and contacts. I'm getting a Visor as soon as I can. (Ironically enough, where I used to work, an engineer recently sold his Nino after having offered it for several months. But another tech who has a Palm III just mentions in passing he might be upgrading to a newer Palm and there are already three people lined up to buy it.)


    "If you continue running Windows, your system may become unstable." - Windows 95 BSOD
    Re:Windows "Powered" Windows "CE" Has its place. (Score:1)
    by cybrthng (cybrthng@pimp.org) on Wednesday December 01, @08:32AM EST (#110)
    (User Info) http://www.pimp.org
    Lemme reply to your points, and kind of theorize the corporate world and my use for a PalmPC.

    1. Microsoft Outlook and Exchange and Office 2000 are used Exclussively at work (not my decision, i just run the oracle databases which are on my fav unix systems). So interfacing seemlessly is a major Issue. The Pocket applications on my PalmPC work great. And synchronize 98% of the information i have already in place in Outlook. My Palm had to be dinked around with to match 30% of the information.

    2, your point there proves you have never used a CE device. The GUI is the same in its looks, you never have to right tap, and there is no such thing.

    Infact for such a small screen, the gui fits nicely having the look and feel of something i'm already familiar with (and millions upon millions of other people)

    I synchronize with AvantGo all the time, i get my web pages clipped from there, custom news and weather. I use Ibrowser to surf the web over my ceullular phone (which uses infared to beam over to my PalmPC instead of carrying around cables) I synchronize with Netscape mail at home no problem. I can synchronize with my mail and news on excite no problem. This synchronization of Palm to whatever costs more to me since i don't need to synchronize to some no name program. Like i said in statement one, it covers more complete synchronizations of my existing data then palm does.

    I love the look and feel of Palms, the OS is superb. But WindowsCE gave me alot of features for such a small device, and it runs rather good. I got a 130mhz Mips R4000 CPU pushing the power, and you can tell its there.

    I dont disagree at all with the uses of a Palm Pilot device/PDA. But Windows CE has a future, and its just rapidly evolving in many directions.

    My GCC compiler i'm working on will support Strong arm based cpu's shortly, and i will have direct X support, and hopefully I will get some code working on a DreamCast too, so i will have cross compilers available for Cygwin or Linux GCC systems.
    my thoughts exactly.

    Re:Windows "Powered" Windows "CE" Has its place. (Score:1)
    by Zigg on Wednesday December 01, @08:44AM EST (#119)
    (User Info)

    Microsoft Outlook and Exchange and Office 2000 are used Exclussively at work

    Then I guess you don't have a problem with ``Pocket Outlook''. I do, because I am moving away from Microsoft Outlook. I think it is an inferior solution, and it ties me unnecessarily to the Windows platform. If, someday, your company decided that Outlook/Exchange was no longer right for its needs, what would your CE device do then?

    your point there proves you have never used a CE device. The GUI is the same in its looks, you never have to right tap, and there is no such thing.

    How childish of you. You speak of something you know nothing about as if it does not exist and assumes it proves me wrong. Pick up an H/PC sometime and check it out.

    You make a lot of points about web synchronization here. I don't have a problem with those; they work equally well regardless of platform, primarily because Microsoft doesn't have their hands in them.

    Finally, correct me if I'm wrong (I regret I have not investigated this as thoroughly as I should), but isn't Palm's official development platform already free? Seems like it's better if the platform owner supports your efforts from the beginning. Helps insure you don't get left out in the cold when xxx new feature comes along.


    "If you continue running Windows, your system may become unstable." - Windows 95 BSOD
    Re:Windows "Powered" Windows "CE" Has its place. (Score:1, Insightful)
    by cybrthng (cybrthng@pimp.org) on Wednesday December 01, @08:51AM EST (#127)
    (User Info) http://www.pimp.org
    how childish of me? I own a Casio E11, E10, and a E105, One of the Two is an HPC, i've never right tapped on, and the Others are Palm PC's which never "right tap". Should you buy a "Pro H/PC" Then you get mouse, and ofcourse the features of the mouse are inplace. Someone might have some app that requires some keypad press and then a tap, but to use the darned thingy, i've never "right tapped" :)

    And free never means perfect. I never dissed the palm in any of my statements, as the palm works great, but didn't solve any of my needs.

    Getting 4-5 years out of my PalmPC is not bad. If microsoft should belly up in the future, then Oh well. I'll load linux on the puppy or sell it off to someone else. But right now it works, keeps me happy and solves 100% of my needs for a PDA and a PalmPC.
    my thoughts exactly.

    Re:Windows "Powered" Windows "CE" Has its place. (Score:2)
    by Zigg on Wednesday December 01, @09:34AM EST (#154)
    (User Info)

    I own a Casio E11, E10, and a E105, One of the Two is an HPC, i've never right tapped on,

    On the H/PC, go to your desktop sometime, hold down Alt, and tap one of the icons. That's your ``right tap''. Anyway, the thrust of that point was originally that the reason I dislike CE is because they are trying to fit a desktop metaphor into a handheld or palm unit, and I don't think it makes sense. Tom Christiansen's recent article on interface zen explains it better than I can.

    And I beg to differ that free != good. In the world of development tools, the freer they are, the better -- because you can count on more varied applications being available as well as lots of apps that will mimic the freeness of the development tools and will be able to be improved on by many people. CE seems to, probably because the devel tools are so expensive, encourage locking up of apps and code.

    Anyway, I can see we're not going to reach an agreement on this one. :-)


    "If you continue running Windows, your system may become unstable." - Windows 95 BSOD
    Re:Windows "Powered" Windows "CE" Has its place. (Score:0, Flamebait)
    by TummyX on Wednesday December 01, @11:42AM EST (#176)
    (User Info)
    And what the hell do you want? A double sided wand?

    I guess you don't like your Macs either?
    Read the post again. (Score:2)
    by Wakko Warner (wakko@qwerty.bitey.net) on Thursday December 02, @11:11AM EST (#236)
    (User Info) http://bitey.net
    He's saying that the entire interface is ill-conceived for the hardware. The windows metaphor doesn't translate properly to palm PCs and he used the right-tapping "feature" as an example.

    - A.P.
    --


    "One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
    "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler

    Re:Windows "Powered" Windows "CE" Has its place. (Score:2)
    by mattdm (mattdm@mattdm.org) on Wednesday December 01, @08:20AM EST (#104)
    (User Info) http://quotes-r-us.org/

    My Toshiba Libretto, only slightly bigger has the following features:

    • Dual-boots Win95 and Debian Linux
    • 850 MB HD, upgradable to several GB
    • 640x480 24-bit color active matrix screen
    • stereo sound if you've got headphones
    • small but totally usable qwerty keyboard

    Well, you get the point. It fits in my coat pocket, and is great at doing mobile computer tasks. It's not so great at being a PDA -- so I've got a Palm Pilot too, which is a lot better at those functions than either the libretto or a wince machine.


    --
    PS: Like Lego? In New England? Join NELUG!

    Re:Windows "Powered" Windows "CE" Has its place. (Score:1)
    by cybrthng (cybrthng@pimp.org) on Wednesday December 01, @08:24AM EST (#105)
    (User Info) http://www.pimp.org
    I got linux running on the E-105, I only paid 349.00 for my PalmPC, i have great portability, great color, and good solid device.

    Sure, i would have bought a laptop or pc based system if that was what i was looking for :)

    The libretto is a work of art and craftsmanship, i'm not denying that at all, but so is the Casio :)

    And both the casio and libretto come with a microsoft OS that is easily replaceable with linux.
    my thoughts exactly.

    Another Libretto fan (Score:1)
    by greenfly on Wednesday December 01, @08:46AM EST (#122)
    (User Info)
    The great thing about my libretto is that my university library is wired with ethernet jacks all over the place.

    I can just bring my libretto in, plug it in, fire it up, and have high speed internet access (higher speed at night).

    Sure beats waiting all night for a download on my modem at home, I just need to get a bigger hard drive so I can use it as an MP3 jukebox.
    Re:Windows "Powered" Windows "CE" Has its place. (Score:1)
    by jhoffmann (jeff at propertykey dot com) on Wednesday December 01, @08:45AM EST (#120)
    (User Info) http://www.propertykey.com/~jeff
    it may have a place somewhere, but where i'm not sure. they use it in everything from set-top boxes to smart cards. i can see set-top boxes. i can even see it on handheld pc's. but smart cards? what are these people smoking? it's not like its hard to write an embedded OS to do just the things that a smart card needs. the success of palm has proven (although on the PDA front) that what works best in confined spaces is something designed specifically for that device. there's very little that's more confining than a smart card.
    Re:Windows "Powered" Windows "CE" Has its place. (Score:2)
    by Accipiter (shadSowfireP@hotAmail.cMom) on Wednesday December 01, @04:59PM EST (#223)
    (User Info) http://www.hackphreak.org
    I think Windows CE is one good thing that has come from Microsoft. It's small, reasonably fast, and easy to use.

    But the new name? Ugh. All the devices say "Powered by Windows CE." Now, they get to say:

    Powered by Windows Powered.

    A bit redundant, no?

    -- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
    (If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't. :P)

    Poke-Windoze (Score:1)
    by ajlitt (ajlitt(foo)mail(bar)utexas(baz)edu) on Wednesday December 01, @07:29AM EST (#72)
    (User Info) http://www.ece.utexas.edu/~litt
    Gotta crash 'em all!
    Re:Poke-Windoze (Score:1)
    by toriver on Wednesday December 01, @08:52AM EST (#130)
    (User Info)
    Actually, relating Microsoft's system to Pokémon would be doing the latter a disservice: After all, it runs on small handhelds with 16 kB RAM consuming 0,4 Watt (or so).

    But I guess the new name will result in a flood of "Windows Infected" or "Windows Afflicted" stickers...

    You take the PDA.
    You wield the PDA.
    Oops! It feels deathly cold!
    You are using a PDA with Windows Powered (-5) {cursed} (g).

    Re:Poke-Windoze (Score:1)
    by ajlitt (ajlitt(foo)mail(bar)utexas(baz)edu) on Wednesday December 01, @09:15AM EST (#145)
    (User Info) http://www.ece.utexas.edu/~litt
    You know, I do have one of the older WinCE palm-clone doodads that I got at a closeout sale. I put new batteries (2xAA)in when I got it, haven't used it for the last two months, and last I checked (last night?) the batteries were dead. Conversely, my Palm's 2xAAA batteries usually last ~1.5mo, while I've been on the same 3 AAA cells on my HP48 calc for the last two years. And I do use both often.

    I have only seen Pokemon once (ok, half an episode; I was about to go into convulsions), but I understand there's something about them needing to suck energy from something or other.

    See, the analogy does indeed work.

    It might actually work better (Score:2)
    by Greyfox (nride@uswest.net) on Wednesday December 01, @07:30AM EST (#74)
    (User Info)
    We can go from WinCE to WinP. Either way you accurately describe your computing experience. Works for me.

    Someone had to put all that chaos there!

    sounds like... (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @07:43AM EST (#83)
    Microsoft Powered : Operating Systems :: Cheese Food : Sustenance
    Question from not English speaker... (Score:1)
    by m2 (m2atswissfactordotdhsdotorg) on Wednesday December 01, @07:52AM EST (#89)
    (User Info)
    Not being a native English speaker, I have a doubt: aren't all these "Windows", "Money", "Explorer", "Exchange", "Word", "Office" and even "Power Point" nouns? Isn't "Windows Powered" an adjetive phrase? Does it make sense to use "Windows Powered" as a noun?
    Re:Question from not English speaker... (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @09:09AM EST (#141)
    "Exchange" is really a verb if you're talking about the process of trading something (like information) to someone else. It's a noun if you're talking about the transaction itself, or a place (like a stock exchange) where exchanges are conducted.
    "Power Point" isn't anything, but we'll assume it's a noun :-)

    It should properly be "Windows-powered", and yes, it's an adjective phrase. I agree; it's useless as a noun. "Arrgh... I installed the latest version of Windows Powered and it crashed."
    I suppose they mean that they're going to *describe* the hardward as being "Windows Powered". As the for actual noun name of the operating system... *shrug*


    Re:Question from not English speaker... (Score:2)
    by Q*bert (Don'tSpamqweaver@vovida.com) on Wednesday December 01, @10:17PM EST (#230)
    (User Info) http://www.vovida.com/
    You're absolutely right. "Windows-powered" (which should most certainly be hyphenated) is an adjectival phrase. It can't be (correctly) used as a noun.

    I am not looking forward to this latest mutilation of my language... :P

    Vovida, OS VoIP
    Beer recipe: free! #Source
    Cold pints: $2 #Product
    Safe rides home, any hour: $25 #Support

    Microsoft Innovation (Score:1)
    by Archeopteryx (benburch@wwa.com) on Wednesday December 01, @07:56AM EST (#92)
    (User Info)
    "We rename our failures."
    "Love is the law, love under will."
    Even more amusment possibilities (Score:1)
    by 0xdeadbeef on Wednesday December 01, @08:05AM EST (#97)
    (User Info)
    Someone should print up stickers with whatever logo they used to denote "Windows Powered". Then we can stick them on all manner of underpowered and broken devices.
    Re:Even more amusment possibilities (Score:2)
    by Q*bert (Don'tSpamqweaver@vovida.com) on Wednesday December 01, @10:18PM EST (#231)
    (User Info) http://www.vovida.com/
    I do this with "Designed for Microsoft Windows 98" stickers. My favorite applications so far have been the fire extinguisher next to my desk and the urinal in the men's bathroom.

    Happy sticking!

    Vovida, OS VoIP
    Beer recipe: free! #Source
    Cold pints: $2 #Product
    Safe rides home, any hour: $25 #Support

    Beleaguered! (Score:1)
    by LarryTheCucumber on Wednesday December 01, @08:35AM EST (#112)
    (User Info)

    There are huge changes in store for Microsoft's beleaguered Windows CE operating system, starting with its name.

    As a long suffering Macinstosh user, I remember when the company run by Gil Amelio was officially christened "Beleaguered Apple Computer Corp." by the press. I find it quite a turn around that a M$ product has now taken on that moniker, while Steve Jobs' company now goes by "Resurgent Apple Computer."

    -jimbo

    ps I think I've seen the beleagured tag attached to Compaq somewhere as well.
    "Hold me Bob!" "I would if I could man!" -Larry and Bob in VeggieTales

    OT: veggies (Score:1)
    by ChristTrekker on Wednesday December 01, @09:00AM EST (#136)
    (User Info)

    Woo! Another Veggie fan on /.!!!

    CT


    For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but rather so that through him, the world might be saved. (John 3:17)
    Inaccurate summary, OS will still be Windows CE (Score:1)
    by RedX on Wednesday December 01, @08:44AM EST (#118)
    (User Info)
    Roblimo's summary is a bit inaccurate. Microsoft is not renaming the Windows CE OS. Rather, the handheld devices that are running Windows CE will be stamped and referred to as "Windows Powered devices" rather than "Windows CE devices." They'll still be running the operating system known as Windows CE.
    Windows Powered (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @08:46AM EST (#123)
    Batteries not encluded
    Winpered (pronounced "whimpered". (Score:2)
    by Apuleius (ocschwar@nospam.mit.edu) on Wednesday December 01, @08:50AM EST (#124)
    (User Info) http://udamisha.tep.org
    The new pejorative.

    It'll catch on before "Windows Powered" ever does.
    [.sig under procrastination.]
    Windows' most famous feature (Score:1)
    by cabalamat (phil@comuno.com) on Wednesday December 01, @08:50AM EST (#125)
    (User Info) http://www.comuno.com/

    In honour of Windows' most famous feature, they should call it...

    the Blue Screen of Portability

    Or ``Bilge'', after MS's founder BillG.

    Oh, yeah. (Score:1)
    by Black Parrot on Wednesday December 01, @08:50AM EST (#126)
    (User Info)
    And the devices that run it will have a sticker that says,

    Windows Powered Powered
    --
    It's October 6th. Where's W2K? Over the horizon again, eh?
    [991015: Now they're saying Maybe February.]
    That would be consistant! (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @10:09AM EST (#163)
    The current beta of Win2k has a bootup screen that says "Contains Windows NT Technology".

    I guess basic grammar isn't a requirement of M$ Marketroids (TM).
    Re:That would be consistant! (Score:1)
    by Black Parrot on Thursday December 02, @11:50AM EST (#237)
    (User Info)
    >The current beta of Win2k has a bootup screen that says "Contains Windows NT Technology".

    Since W2K is newer, shouldn't that be -

    Contains New Windows NT Technology

    Or, if they're referring to older stuff included from NT 4 -

    Contains Old Windows NT Technology

    Or maybe just -

    Contains Old Technology Formerly Known as New


    Of course, either way they'll have to rename Windows NT to Windows OT.

    --
    It's October 6th. Where's W2K? Over the horizon again, eh?
    [991015: Now they're saying Maybe February.]
    Windows Powdered (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @08:51AM EST (#128)
    This is pretty funny. WinCE has been a technical and marketing failure. So what does Micro$oft do? They rename it. Yeah, that'll fix it! Right. Have they never heard the old adage: "A rose by any other name...?" Or do they perhaps fail to grok that the wisdom expressed by that adage works both ways?

    On the off chance that the latter is the case, here's a Free Clue: a bloated, unstable, power-sucking operating system with a new name is still... a bloated, unstable, power-sucking operating system. Imagine that!

    WinCE has managed one thing well: it has emphasized perhaps more clearly than any of Microsoft's other products just how bad their stuff really is.

    Micro$oft's shoddy workmanship and marketing over-hype are finally coming home to roost. The word "Windows" has long been a joke to those in IT "in the know." (Which, by definition, does not generally include PHBs.) It's now rapidly becoming a joke even to those outside of the IT community. PHBs are next :-).

    About damn time.

    Hey, don't give them ideas! (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @09:03AM EST (#138)
    Poke-Windows? You can just imagine if they sorted out the licencing, an office assistant pack of pokemon characters would probably sell like hot cakes. And wouldn't Pikachu be an improvement over that EVIL EVIL paperclip? Er....
    (surely the cat from Team Rocket would be more apt...)
    Anyway, surely the main reason they're changing the name from Windows CE is they're sick and tired of the "wince" jokes...
    Oberon for small devices (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @09:07AM EST (#139)
    Oberon S3 is an OS as well as a language. The basic system fits on a 1.44 disk and includes a compiler, hardware drivers, and a lot more. A few more megs of space gets you a full GUI with development tools. This runs on bare Intel hardware. I'm sure it could be ported to a handheld pretty easily. If you want to try it, search for "Native Oberon". sr
    Re:Oberon for small devices (Score:1)
    by Jay Carlson (nop@nop.com) on Wednesday December 01, @11:37AM EST (#175)
    (User Info)
    I looked at this again few weeks ago. Sadly, there is still no full source-available version (and there never has been AFAIK for most platforms). From http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/faq.html:
    Reading the install.txt file, I noticed that the source code for the Kernel is not included. (1) Why it is not in the distribution file? (2) How and where I can get it?

    The source of the Kernel is made available under license from the ETH to people that propose a specific kernel-related project. For commercial use there is a small license fee per installed system. Please contact Prof. Gutknecht gutknecht@inf.ethz.ch in this regard.

    I think Oberon would have been more of a contender if it was a full Open Source project, although it may be too late now. Oh well.
    Why I bought a WINCE device (Score:1)
    by doublem (mattDENIALOFSERVICEwmiller@hotTOSPAMMERSmail.com) on Wednesday December 01, @09:07AM EST (#140)
    (User Info) http://www.50megs.com/users2/mattwmiller
    While professionally employed as a geek, I am at heart a fiction writer, and I wanted what ammounted to a keyboard with some ram, a way to enter the ideas I get when I'm away from my computer without having to transcribe my sanscrit like handwriting.

    At the time I was looking around, the only palmtop device with a keyboard that was in my price range was the Cassiopeia A-10 and A-11, both WINCE devices. I needed a keyboard because I type much faster than I write longhand, even on the tiny handheld keyboard.

    Soon after my purchase, I learned that WINCE Services were a joke. I couldn't use my Internet connection while having my palmtp connected (they both use dial-up networking) and the freeware Filegram utility was spotty in its performance at best!

    A month after I bought my new toy on e-bay, they came out with a keyboard for the Palm Pilot, and I was kicking myself for my mistake. If only I had waited! If I had just been more patient I could have had a bigger keyboard, more software, a supported device and easier syncronization!!!! ARGGGG!


    Matthew Miller, a man born in the Midwest and trapped on the East Coast. "Please help me!!!!"

    Powered Windows. (Score:1)
    by anatoli (anatoli@my-dejanews.com) on Wednesday December 01, @09:10AM EST (#142)
    (User Info) file:///unix
    I have four of them in a Mitsubishi Lancer (that's Dodge Eagle (?) for some of you). Rear ones are crappy, they've died on me twice. Their, dare I say, architecture is just not up to the job. OTOH the UI is ok -- simple, minimalistic, and intuitive to boot.

    This post wants to be moderated down (-1, Offtopic).
    --
    Industrial space for lease in Flatlandia.

    "Windows Powered" Digital Television (Score:2, Insightful)
    by PiotrK on Wednesday December 01, @09:20AM EST (#148)
    (User Info)
    Millions of clueless users will buy digital TV-sets with "Windows Powered" logo.

    Microsoft main goal is to monopolize digital television.

    Re:"Windows Powered" Digital Television (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 06, @01:43PM EST (#241)
    I agree. I think they are really eyeing the cable-modem-connected internet video games, set top boxes, and other smart-TV products that we're all waiting for in the next few years. They may even be a little nervous about these new products displacing the home PC. LeisureSuitLarry
    Hmmm, reminds me of nuclear accidents. (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @09:41AM EST (#155)
    Did sellafield used to be called Windscale? :)
    what about the hardware? (Score:1)
    by geoff lane on Wednesday December 01, @09:55AM EST (#157)
    (User Info)
    if I were a manufacturer of WinCE h/w I would be VERY unhappy to have it labelled as "Windows Powered" It hides the fact that I make the h/w and gives the impression that the product is supplied by Microsoft.

    More companies are going to look at Palm and wonder if they really need to feed a percentage of their sales profits to an already overweight MS.

    Re:what about the hardware? (Score:1)
    by artg on Wednesday December 01, @11:52AM EST (#181)
    (User Info)
    It might be particularly annoying to those using the ARM chips - ARM countered Intel's 'Intel Inside' campaign with 'ARM Powered'.

    So is a PDA with Wince and Arm (like one of the HP Jornadas) 'ARM Powered' or 'Windows Powered' ?

    This re-use of someone else's ad campaign also suggests that Microsoft's marketing department can't innovate, either ..


    Re:what about the hardware? (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @04:29PM EST (#219)
    But you need anothe sticker, "NiMH powered"

    CY
    Noooooo! (Score:2)
    by Q*bert (Don'tSpamqweaver@vovida.com) on Wednesday December 01, @10:28PM EST (#233)
    (User Info) http://www.vovida.com/
    Too many people will think the label "ARM powered" on devices means you have to wind them up. :P

    Vovida, OS VoIP
    Beer recipe: free! #Source
    Cold pints: $2 #Product
    Safe rides home, any hour: $25 #Support

    Propitious timing? (Score:2)
    by r2ravens (rusrow@SP.primenet.AM.com) on Wednesday December 01, @09:57AM EST (#159)
    (User Info)
    You know, WinCE has been around for quite a while (never doing very well, but been out a while) and they never had a problem with the name.

    I may be dense, but it was only recently that I saw a post pointing out the "wince" moniker and had a good chuckle at something I hadn't recognized before. Has this reference been around a long time, or has it recently become more popular? Has the mainstream media never picked up on it before?

    Perhaps we slashdotters/techies/geeks/truly intelligent beings have more power than we think. If our use of the term has the potential to bring it into use in the mainstream... could this be the reason for this change now? The desire to do some revisionist FUD and try to head off this allegedly derogatory reference at the pass?

    Well, it will always be "wince" to me. :) And I hope to all of the rest of us thinking beings... You can change the name, but the truth will tell. Although the truth often has a difficult time against M/$ FUD...

    Of course it's still called "Boulder" Dam to me, not Hoover. And, damn it, I learned to spell Czechoslavakia in the 5th grade (could do it in my sleep the way the teacher drilled us), what am I going to do with that little piece of now useless knowledge?

    Enough of changing the names of stuff. ;)

    Russ
    Subvert The Dominant Paradigm! Do the obvious to reply --
    Re:Propitious timing? (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @10:11AM EST (#164)
    I learned to spell Czechoslavakia in the 5th grade
    Hate to rain on your parade, but it's Czechoslovakia.
    Re:Typos :( (Score:2)
    by r2ravens (rusrow@SP.primenet.AM.com) on Wednesday December 01, @10:51AM EST (#169)
    (User Info)
    Constructive criticism noted. :)

    I guess I cant spell Czechoslovakia in my sleep after all.

    That will teach me to type and proofread before I am truly awake. Maybe my future posts should occur later in the day. :)

    Russ
    Subvert The Dominant Paradigm! Do the obvious to reply --
    Re:Propitious timing? (Score:2)
    by SpinyNorman (spiny_norman@mad.scientist.com) on Wednesday December 01, @12:09PM EST (#185)
    (User Info)
    I'm sure if they thought that WinCE had any value as a brand/name they'd have kept it, so this is obviously basically "it's not WinCE, really!" name.

    It reminds me of the forever leaking British nuclear power station called Windscale. The Government's eventual reaction to the continuous Windscale bad press was to rename it Sellafield!

    Source of mild mirth. (Score:1)
    by br0ken_ (drown@beer.com) on Wednesday December 01, @10:00AM EST (#160)
    (User Info)
    So soon even the Microsoft marketing machine will be describing its new apps as "Running under Powered"..?

    They really do need to start running these names by people before announcing them.

    --
    Tim.
    The Name Game (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @10:40AM EST (#167)
    So...if this portable Windows is now "Windows Powered", does that imply that the desktop Windows is not powered? Perhaps a name change for the desktop version is in order: "Windows Broken" -johan
    Casiopaeia 105e (Score:1)
    by Kelt (scd@flashcom.ihatespam.net) on Wednesday December 01, @10:43AM EST (#168)
    (User Info)
    Has anyone played with one of these? I like the PDA+MP3 thing, but not sure about WinCE. But now that it will have Powered Windows, I might reconsider it *joke*.

    Seriously, has anyone played with these or WinCE devices in general?


    My intelligence insults itself.
    Linus (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @10:53AM EST (#170)
    the should call it to linus so all the dumb linus long hairs will by it and be fooled and then say why is this so much beter than linus? linus sux!
    Re:Linus (Score:0, Offtopic)
    by JohnG (jeg@dontvisispam.net) on Wednesday December 01, @04:16PM EST (#218)
    (User Info) http://www.scinomaly.org
    dumb linus long hairs will by it Do what by it? Stand by it? Dance by it? huh? If I'm the dumb long hair how come you don't know the difference between by and buy?

    beter than linus? linus sux! Not quite sure what beter is. And I've never had Linus on my computer. Not sure he could run it very well though what with that blue blanket getting in the way all the time. Of coure Linux is great! Far better than Windows CE by any name.

    Seriously fellow slashdotters. Don't you just love the windows advocates. Non of them can spell, make complete sentences, yet they claim how superior their OS is.


    Scinomaly.org Science outside the norm

    What's in a Name? (Score:1)
    by jwhyche (jwhyche@hotmail.com) on Wednesday December 01, @12:05PM EST (#182)
    (User Info)

    A pile of shit by any other name ... is still a pile of shit.

    Re:What's in a Name? (Score:1)
    by My_Favorite_Anonymou on Wednesday December 01, @04:46PM EST (#220)
    (User Info) http://thebigsleep.homepage.com
    No, it's art. (BMA website is here) I think it's time to hand the guy a couple copy of windows for positive use.)


    CY
    Clearing the namespace... (Score:1)
    by SamBaughman (sam at catlover dot com) on Wednesday December 01, @12:30PM EST (#191)
    (User Info)
    I don't believe I've seen anyone point this out yet... I recall WinCE being termed "Windows, Consumer Edition" when it was first released. Now, M$ is coming along with Windows 2000, and eventually a product called Windows 2000 Consumer, meant for the Win9x user (as opposed to Windows 2000 Professional for the WinNT user). Seems to me that M$ is simply cleaning out the namespace so that they can use Windows 2000 Consumer as a product name and not get it confused too much with WinCE in their marketing department.
    /* Made from 100% Recycled Electrons */
    We all know the reason (Score:1)
    by slickwillie on Wednesday December 01, @01:00PM EST (#193)
    (User Info)
    M$ wanted a new name is because WinCE was becoming known in the general population. I think they thought no one could bastardize Windows Powered something demeaning.

    How about WiPed? You coul pronounce it either "wiped" like "I wiped my ass with it", or "whipped" as in "That OS is really p-whipped".
    We all know the reason (Score:1)
    by slickwillie on Wednesday December 01, @01:01PM EST (#194)
    (User Info)
    M$ wanted a new name is because WinCE was becoming known in the general population. Maybe they thought no one could bastardize Windows Powered something demeaning.

    How about WiPed? You could pronounce it either "wiped" like "I wiped my ass with it", or "whipped" as in "That OS is really p-whipped".
    Sorry for the double post (Score:1)
    by slickwillie on Wednesday December 01, @01:16PM EST (#196)
    (User Info)
    My mouse must be Windows Powered.
    Windows CE should have been renamed ... (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @01:46PM EST (#199)
    Herring 2000
    strange... (Score:1)
    by kaoshin (intelligreed@yahoo.com) on Wednesday December 01, @02:17PM EST (#203)
    (User Info)
    The commercial version of redhat 6.1 I purchased came with 3 stickers, two small - one bumper sticker sized that say: "Powered by Redhat" Have the P.R. people started stealing slogans off of their competitors bumpers?
    max power! (Score:1)
    by Lint^^ on Wednesday December 01, @02:50PM EST (#208)
    (User Info)
    this reminds me of the simpsons episode where homer changes his name to max power. amusing stuff...
    Re:max power! (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @07:01PM EST (#228)
    GREAT EPISODE!
    Alternative OS Names
    Homer -- eats huge resources, lays around, and complains when forced to work
    Marge -- constently cleans it's hard drive
    Bart -- Does what ever it wants, and when It really screws up it say "sorry, man".
    maggie -- just sits around and process's info allday.

    Now if I can only think os something the 'LISA' could do ....;)
    Remember: Windows is NOT an OS, it's a brand name! (Score:1)
    by Noel (noel@megsinet.net) on Wednesday December 01, @03:07PM EST (#211)
    (User Info)
    According to Brad Chase, MS VP of Marketing, Windows is "the most popular software brand name in the world." That helps us understand what MS is doing here. They are not claiming that a "Windows Powered" handheld is running the Windows operating system. They are not committing to a unifying the WinCE/WP code base with the W2K code base. They are not even changing the WinCE operating system itself.

    All they are doing is unifying their products under a familiar and popular brand name, and hoping that people will think "Windows? That's what I'm running at work/home, so I've got to get a Windows Powered handheld, too." They're obviously hoping that the brand name recognition will pull WinCE/WP out of the market share hole that PalmOS has driven it into.

    Yes, it's pure marketing drivel. Yes, it's silly. Yes, it's misleading. But hardly surprising, unfortunately. Perception is often more important to sales than reality.

    Re:Free the source (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @06:24AM EST (#23)
    unfortunately, they've no obligation to do so. i, for one, would be interested to see a more advanced slashdot (rather than pre-0.3, i reckon we're past that stage by now), not to rip off the code, but to see how they do certain things.
    Re:Free the source (hypocrisy for fun and profit) (Score:0, Flamebait)
    by cruise (cruise@openverse.org) on Wednesday December 01, @06:43AM EST (#43)
    (User Info) http://openverse.org/
    All of this is off topic but I happen to agree.. /. is all riding the open source movement and the linux community's "moral values" for fun and profit. Can you say... hypocrites!

    I think I even spelled it right.


    OpenVerse Visual Chat
    Re:Free the source (hypocrisy for fun and profit) (Score:0)
    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 01, @06:59AM EST (#52)
    Hmm... betcha if all the registered posters put a message like the first one in their sigs, taco might listen... who's game? I'll be doing it as soon as I find my passwd... ~luge
    Re:Free the source (hypocrisy for fun and profit) (Score:0, Flamebait)
    by Lonesmurf (lonesmurf@HAHA.hotmail.com) on Wednesday December 01, @07:30AM EST (#73)
    (User Info) http://w3.to/rjames/
    You, my friend, have a point. And my support.

    Linux and opensource go hand in hand? Why isn't Slashdot practicing what it preaches?

    --

    see - ug? what be this see - ug? oh! you mean 'SIG'!
    Re:Free the source (hypocrisy for fun and profit) (Score:3, Informative)
    by rc-flyer (NoSpam_Jonathan_Bayer@bigfoot.com) on Wednesday December 01, @07:49AM EST (#86)
    (User Info)
    Boy, the number of totally clueless and blind readers never fails to amaze me. First you have this non-sensicle posting about freeing the source (even though the source code for /. has always been available, look at the number of /. powered sites out there), then you get a few other idiots who don't even bother to read a previous reply which specifically states that the source is available and even where to find it.

    I don't even know why the original posting was moderated up. Seems like a moderator was also clueless (which makes sence, considering that the moderators are also the same clueless idiots who read and post these totally stupid comments)

    Before I get flamed for this, the source code for /. is available at:

    http://slashdot.org/code.shtml


    Their only requirement is that you link back to /. if you use their code.
    -- Error: Cannot find file REALITY.SYS - Universe halted, please reboot!
    Re:Free the source (hypocrisy for fun and profit) (Score:2)
    by Foogle (foogle@adelphia.net) on Wednesday December 01, @08:36AM EST (#113)
    (User Info)
    I can't believe you're getting so upset over something you're wrong about :-) Yes, the SLASH code is available, but it's pretty out-dated. The current Slashdot system has a bunch of new features that aren't in that release. Also: For a site that advocates the GPL so much, why is Taco releasing SLASH with an advertising clause? I don't care how much he says he loves Open Source -- his actions speak volumes about his real feelings.

    -----------

    "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
    - They Might Be Giants

    Re:Free the source (hypocrisy for fun and profit) (Score:1)
    by GregWebb on Wednesday December 01, @07:51AM EST (#88)
    (User Info) http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ssu97gw/index.html
    If you have a look on the left (as someone mentioned earlier in the thread...) there's a code link. It's available.

    The truly annoying thing is that we have a company which was sold for a sizeable amount of money to a company's that's about to be listed on the stock market where your primary obligation is to make the most money possible for your shareholders. And what's the domain name? slashdot.org, in the non-profit domain.

    If I were Rob I'd have done my level best to sort out a commercial domain some time ago. I were in charge of domain registrations I'd be spitting blood over an obvious abuse of domain names.

    Greg
    The domain name people really don't care (Score:2)
    by Greyfox (nride@uswest.net) on Wednesday December 01, @08:16AM EST (#102)
    (User Info)
    And it's common practise for businesses and politicians to register a trademarked name across as many domains as they can. So are you whining like a 2 year old because you wanted slashdot.org or because you want Rob to pay you for slashdot.com?

    Someone had to put all that chaos there!

    Re:The domain name people really don't care (Score:1)
    by GregWebb on Wednesday December 01, @08:55AM EST (#133)
    (User Info) http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ssu97gw/index.html
    I don't want a domain and someone else has already registered slashdot.com - did so back in '96. Given the circumstances, however, it would be nice if they'd at least posted a notice explaining that there was a problem as someone else had registered the domain (though it appears to be a token page and I'd class it as definite cybersquatting.

    I resent being told I'm whining like a 2-year old for raising a legitimate query, to be honest. This isn't good and there should at least be an explanation somewhere. But how did this post get to be a 2?

    Greg
    Re:Free the source (hypocrisy for fun and profit) (Score:1)
    by cruise (cruise@openverse.org) on Wednesday December 01, @03:28PM EST (#213)
    (User Info) http://openverse.org/
    If you have a look at that code... it's been sitting there since, well a long time. It certainly is not an example of open exchange of information.

    before you jump around like a loonie calling people clueless, get a clue yourself.

    Of course, this message will be moderated down and called flamebait as are any posts critical of /. usually are.


    OpenVerse Visual Chat
    Re:Free the source (hypocrisy for fun and profit) (Score:1)
    by GregWebb on Thursday December 02, @07:34AM EST (#234)
    (User Info) http://www.rdg.ac.uk/~ssu97gw/index.html
    I knew it wasn't exactly the most up-to-date code release out there, but something's there and it's certainly better than useless. Which some people seem not to recognise, unfortunately. That's what I was complaining about.

    Interesting to see that I'm not the only one fed up with the moderators :) Slashdot tends to be rather less open minded than some people seem to think IME.

    Greg
    Hint (Score:1)
    by JamesKPolk (multivac @ fcmail.com) on Wednesday December 01, @07:29AM EST (#71)
    (User Info)
    Look on the left sidebar on basically any slashdot page:

    directly under "faq", you'll see "code", which is a page about the "slash" engine, source code, and the licensing.

    Apologies to the many people who already knew this; I'm just letting someone else in on the deal.
    Re:Hint (Score:1)
    by Foogle (foogle@adelphia.net) on Wednesday December 01, @08:29AM EST (#108)
    (User Info)
    Yeah, but it's not the current source - it's an older version. Rob still hasn't given out the source to the current Slashdot... Kind of ironic for a site like this, eh?

    -----------

    "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
    - They Might Be Giants

    Re:Hint (Score:1)
    by JamesKPolk (multivac @ fcmail.com) on Wednesday December 01, @10:28AM EST (#166)
    (User Info)
    Not really... Malda makes periodic releases, whenever he gets the chance to stabilize the code, and clean it up.

    It's not like slash is a well-planned, formal project with a CVS server, and a design committee.

    Though, I would hope that the andover.net purchase of slashdot would give him more time to clean up the codebase, along with adding features.
     
     
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