Forgot your password?
[an error occurred while processing this directive]

Slashdot Log In

Log In

[ Create a new account ]

Voices From The Hellmouth

Posted by JonKatz on Mon Apr 26, 1999 11:26 AM
from the Geek-Profiling dept.
In the days after the Littleton, Colorado massacre, the country went on a panicked hunt the oddballs in High School, a profoundly ignorant and unthinking response to a tragedy that left geeks, nerds, non-conformists and the alienated in an even worse situation than before. Stories all over the country embarked on witchunts that amounted to little more than Geek Profiling. All weekend, after Friday's column here, these voiceless kids -- invisible in media and on TV talk shows and powerless in their own schools -- have been e-mailing me with stories of what has happened to them in the past few days. Here are some of those stories in their own words, with gratitude and admiration for their courage in sending them. The big story out of Littleton isn't about violence on the Internet, or whether or not video games are turning out kids into killers. It's about the fact that for some of the best, brightest and most interesting kids, high school is a nightmare of exclusion, cruelty, warped values and anger.
[an error occurred while processing this directive]

The big story never seemed to quite make it to the front pages or the TV talk shows. It wasn't whether the Net is a place for hate-mongers and bomb-makers, or whether video games are turning your kids into killers. It was the spotlight the Littleton, Colorado killings has put on the fact that for so many individualistic, intelligent, and vulnerable kids, high school is a Hellmouth of exclusion, cruelty, loneliness, inverted values and rage.

From Buffy the Vampire Slayer to Todd Solondz's "Welcome To The Dollhouse," and a string of comically-bitter teen movies from Hollywood, pop culture has been trying to get this message out for years. For many kids - often the best and brightest -- school is a nightmare.

People who are different are reviled as geeks, nerds, dorks. The lucky ones are excluded, the unfortunates are harassed, humiliated, sometimes assaulted literally as well as socially. Odd values - unthinking school spirit, proms, jocks - are exalted, while the best values - free thinking, non-conformity, curiousity - are ridiculed. Maybe the one positive legacy the Trenchcoat Mafia left was to ensure that this message got heard, by a society that seems desperate not to hear it.

Minutes after the "Kids That Kill" column was posted on Slashdot Friday, and all through the weekend, I got a steady stream of e-mail from middle and high school kids all over the country -- especially from self-described oddballs. They were in trouble, or saw themselves that way to one degree or another in the hysteria sweeping the country after the shootings in Colorado.

Many of these kids saw themselves as targets of a new hunt for oddballs -- suspects in a bizarre, systematic search for the strange and the alienated. Suddenly, in this tyranny of the normal, to be different wasn't just to feel unhappy, it was to be dangerous.

Schools all over the country openly embraced Geek Profiling. One group calling itself the National School Safety Center issued a checklist of "dangerous signs" to watch for in kids: it included mood swings, a fondness for violent TV or video games, cursing, depression, anti-social behavior and attitudes. (I don't know about you, but I bat a thousand).

The panic was fueled by a ceaseless bombardment of powerful, televised images of mourning and grief in Colorado, images that stir the emotions and demand some sort of response, even when it isn't clear what the problem is.

The reliably blockheaded media response didn't help either. "Sixty Minutes" devoted a whole hour to a broadcast on screen violence and its impact on the young, heavily promoted by this tease: "Are video games turning your kids into killers?" The already embattled loners were besieged.

"This is not a rational world. Can anybody help?" asked Jamie, head of an intense Dungeons and Dragons club in Minnesota, whose private school guidance counselor gave him a choice: give up the game or face counseling, possibly suspension. Suzanne Angelica (her online handle) was told to go home and leave her black, ankle-length raincoat there.

On the Web, kids did flock to talk to each other. On Star Wars and X-Files mailing lists and websites and on AOL chat rooms and ICQ message boards, teenagers traded countless countless stories of being harassed, beaten, ostracized and ridiculed by teachers, students and administrators for dressing and thinking differently from the mainstream. Many said they had some understanding of why the killers in Littleton went over the edge.

"We want to be different," wrote one of the Colorado killers in a diary found by the police. "We want to be strange and we don't want jocks or other people putting us down." The sentiment, if not the response to it, was echoed by kids all over the country. The Littleton killings have made their lives much worse.

"It was horrible, definitely," e-mailed Bandy from New York City. "I'm a Quake freak, I play it day and night. I'm really into it. I play Doom a lot too, though not so much anymore. I'm up till 3 a.m. every night. I really love it. But after Colorado, things got horrible. People were actually talking to me like I could come in and kill them. It wasn't like they were really afraid of me - they just seemed to think it was okay to hate me even more? People asked me if I had guns at home. This is a whole new level of exclusion, another excuse for the preppies of the universe to put down and isolate people like me."

It wasn't just the popular who were suspicious of the odd and the alienated, though.

The e-mailed stories ranged from suspensions and expulsions for "anti-social behavior" to censorship of student publications to school and parental restrictions on computing, Web browsing, and especially gaming. There were unconfirmed reports that the sale of blocking software had skyrocketed. Everywhere, school administrators pandered and panicked, rushing to show they were highly sensitive to parents fears, even if they were oblivious to the needs and problems of many of their students.

In a New Jersey private school, a girl was expelled for showing classmates a pocket-knife. School administrators sent a letter home:

"In light of the recent tragedy in Littleton, Colorado, we all share a heightened sensitivity to potential threats to our children. I urge you to take this time to discuss with your children the importance of turning to adults when they have concerns about the behavior of others."

This solution was straight out of "1984." In fact, this was one of the things it's protagonist Winston was jailed for: refusing to report his friends for behavior that Big Brother deemed abnormal and disturbing.

Few of the weeks? media reports - in fact, none that I saw - pointed out that the FBI Uniform Crime reports, issued bi-annually, along with the Justice Departments reports (statistical abstracts on violence are available on the Department's website and in printed form) academic studies and some news reports have reporters for years now. Violence among the young is dropping across the country, even as computing, gaming, cable TV and other media use rises.

Unhappy, alienated, isolated kids are legion in schools, voiceless in media, education and politics. But theirs are the most important voices of all in understanding what happened and perhaps even how to keep it from happening again.

I referred some of my e-mailers to peacefire.org, a children's rights website, for help in dealing with blocking and filtering software. I sent others to freedomforum.org (the website Free!) for help with censorship and free speech issues, and to geek websites, especially some on ICQ.com where kids can talk freely.

I've chosen some e-mailers to partially reprint here. Although almost all of these correspondents were willing to be publicly identified - some demanded it - I'm only using their online names, since some of their stories would put them in peril from parents, peers or school administrators.


From Jay in the Southeast:

"I stood up in a social studies class -the teacher wanted a discussion -- and said I could never kill anyone or condone anyone who did kill anyone. But that I could, on some level, understand these kids in Colorado, the killers. Because day after day, slight after slight, exclusion after exclusion, you can learn how to hate, and that hatred grows and takes you over sometimes, especially when you come to see that you're hated only because you're smart and different, or sometimes even because you are online a lot, which is still so uncool to many kids?

After the class, I was called to the principal's office and told that I had to agree to undergo five sessions of counseling or be expelled from school, as I had expressed ?sympathy? with the killers in Colorado, and the school had to be able to explain itself if I ?acted out?. In other words, for speaking freely, and to cover their ass, I was not only branded a weird geek, but a potential killer. That will sure help deal with violence in America."


From Jason in Pennsylvania: "The hate just eats you up, like the molten metal moving up Keanu Reeve's arm in the ?The Matrix.? That's what I thought of when I saw it. You lose track of what is real and what isn't. The worst people are the happiest and do the best, the best and smartest people are the most miserable and picked upon. The cruelty is unimaginable. If Dan Rather wants to know why those guys killed those people in Littleton, Colorado, tell him for me that the kids who run the school probably drove them crazy, bit by bit?.That doesn't mean all those kids deserved to die. But a lot of kids in America know why it happened, even if the people running schools don't."


From Andrew in Alaska: "To be honest, I sympathized much more with the shooters than the shootees. I am them. They are me. This is not to say I will end the lives of my classmates in a hail of bullets, but that their former situation bears a striking resemblance to my own. For the most part, the media are clueless. They're never experienced social rejection, or chosen non-conformity'Also, I would like to postulate that the kind of measures taken by school administration have a direct effect on school violence. School is generally an oppressive place; the parallels to fascist society are tantalizing. Following a school shooting, a week or two-week crackdown ensues, where students? constitutional rights are violated with impunity, at a greater rate than previous."


From Anika78 in suburban Chicago:

"I was stopped at the door of my high school because I was wearing a trenchcoat. I don't game, but I'm a geekchick, and I'm on the Web a lot. (I love geek guys, and there aren't many of us.) I was given a choice - go home and ditch the coat, or go to the principal. I refused to go home. I have never been a member of any group or trenchcoat mob or any hate thing, online or any other, so why should they tell me what coat to wear?

Two security guards took me into an office, called the school nurse, who was a female, and they ordered me to take my coat off. The nurse asked me to undress (privately) while the guards outside the door went through every inch of my coat. I wouldn't undress, and she didn't make me (I think she felt creepy about the whole thing).

Then I was called into the principal's office and he asked me if I was a member of any hate group, or any online group, or if I had ever played Doom or Quake. He mentioned some other games, but I don't remember them. I'm not a gamer, though my boyfriends have been. I lost it then. I thought I was going to be brave and defiant, but I just fell apart. I cried and cried. I think I hated that worse than anything."


FromZBird in New Jersey:

"Yeah, I've had some fantasies about taking out some of these jerks who run the school, have parties, get on teams, are adored by teachers, have all these friends. Sure. They hate me. Day by day, it's like they take pieces out of you, like a torture, one at a time. My school has 1,500 kids. I could never make a sports team. I have never been to a party. I sit with my friends at our own corner of the cafeteria. If we tried to join the other kids, they'd throw up or leave. And by now, I'd rather die.

Sometimes, I do feel a lot of real pure rage. And I feel better when I go online. Sometimes I think the games keep me from shooting anybody, not the other way around. Cause I can get even there, and I'm pretty powerful there. But I'd never do it. Something much deeper was wrong with these kids in Colorado. To shoot all those people? Make bombs? You have to be sick, and the question they should be asking isn't what games do they play, but how come all these high-paid administrators, parents, teachers and so-called professional people, how come none of them noticed how wacked they were? I mean, in the news it said they had guns all over their houses! They were planning this for a year. Maybe the reporters ought to ask how come nobody noticed this, instead of writing all these stupid stories about video games?"


From ES in New York:

High school favors people with a certain look and attitude - the adolescent equivalent of Aryans. They are the chosen ones, and they want to get rid of anyone who doesn't look and think the way they do. One of the things which makes this so infuriating is that the system favors shallow people. Anyone who took the time to think about things would realize that things like the prom, school spirit and who won the football game are utterly insignificant in the larger scheme of things.

So anyone with depth of thought is almost automatically excluded from the main high school social structure. It's like some horribly twisted form of Social Darwinism.

I would never, ever do anything at all like what was done in Colorado. I can't understand how anyone could. But I do understand the hatred of high school life which, I guess, prompted it.


From Dan in Boise, Idaho:

"Be careful! I wrote an article for my school paper. The advisor suggested we write about ?our feelings? about Colorado. My feelings -what I wrote -- were that society is blaming the wrong things. You can't blame screwed-up kids or the Net. These people don't know what they were talking about. How bout blaming a system that takes smart or weird kids and drives them crazy? How about understanding why these kids did what they did, cause in some crazy way, I feel something for them. For their victims, too, but for them. I thought it was a different point-of-view, but important. I was making a point. I mean, I'm not going to the prom.

You know what? The article was killed, and I got sent home with a letter to my parents. It wasn't an official suspension, but I can't go back until Tuesday. And it was made pretty clear to me that if I made any noise about it, it would be a suspension or worse. So this is how they are trying to figure out what happened in Colorado, I guess. By blaming a sub-culture and not thinking about their own roles, about how fucked-up school is. Now, I think the whole thing was a set-up, cause a couple of other kids are being questioned too, about what they wrote. They pretend to want to have a 'dialogue' but kids should be warned that what they really want to know is who's dangerous to them."


From a Slashdot reader: "Your column Friday was okay, but you and a lot of the Slashdot readers don't get it. You don't have the guts to stand up and say these games are not only not evil, they are great. They are good. They are challenging and stimulating. They help millions of kids who have nowhere else to go, because the whole world is set up to take care of different kinds of kids, kids who fit in, who do what they're told, who are popular. I've made more friends online on Gamespot.com than I have in three years of high school. I think about my characters and my competitions and battles all day.

Nothing I've been taught in school interests me as much. And believe me, the gamers who (try to) kill me online all day are a lot closer to me than the kids I go to high school with. I'm in my own world, for sure, but it's my choice and it's a world I love. Without it, I wouldn't have one... Last week, my father told me he had cancelled my ISP because he had asked me not to game so much and I still was. And when he saw the Colorado thing online, he said, he told my Mom that he felt one of these kids could be me'I am a resourceful geek, and I was back online before he got to bed that night. But I have to go underground now.

My guidance counselor, who wouldn't know a computer game from Playboy Bunny poster, told me was Dad was being a good parent, and here was a chance for me to re-invent myself, be more popular, to ?mainstream.? This whole Colorado thing, it's given them an excuse to do more of what started this trouble in the first place - to make individuals and different people feel like even bigger freaks."


From Jip in New England:

"Dear Mr. Katz. I am 10. My parents took my computer away today, because of what they saw on television. They told me they just couldn't be around enough to make sure that I'm doing the right things on the Internet. My Mom and Dad told me they didn't want to be standing at my funeral some day because of things I was doing that they didn't know about. I am at my best friend's house, and am pretty bummed, because things are boring now. I hope I'll get it back."

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Voices From The Hellmouth | Log In/Create an Account | Top | 1228 comments (Spill at 50!) | Index Only | Search Discussion
Display Options Threshold:
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1) | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12
  • Where were the Parents by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:42AM
  • irrelevant? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:39AM
  • My experience in NH HS (logged out for this one) by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:43AM
  • Damn straight... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:45AM
  • The real problem is dealing with anger. by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:46AM
  • It is easy to. by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:04PM
  • EMBRACE YOUR NERDITUDE! (Bruce Sterling on geeks) by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:43PM
  • Anagram? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:37PM
  • Hold on!!! These people _Deserve_ social hazing!!! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:48PM
  • American Public High Schools -- My Experience by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:07PM
  • Outcast by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:23PM
  • werd from a nerd by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:44PM
  • If you are a student reading this by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:23PM
  • geekgirls (long) by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:52PM
  • To hell with the public education system by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @10:42AM
  • hang in there by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @10:50AM
  • Lack of Tolerence by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @12:09PM
  • School sucks ... this is news? by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @12:22PM
  • Why do people fear us geeks? by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @01:17PM
  • My two cents. by drendite (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:28PM
  • stupid administrators by Crow- (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:06PM
  • Easy Answers by John Murray (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:19PM
  • Distant but familliar... by morph- (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:36PM
  • Damn straight... by caro (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:40PM
  • Some Free Advice. (Score:4)

    by Adam Schumacher (267) on Monday April 26 1999, @06:35PM (#1915256) Homepage
    Throughout my years in the public school system, I have seen much of the spectrum of pressure and abuse which the individualists in the school culture are subjected to. Although I have no formal credentials, I feel that my 3 3/4 years in high school qualify me to at least dispense some advice to those who feel alientated by the system. I can summarize this adivce with two main points:

    • Learn how to work the system
    • Fuck the system

    Wow, pretty contradictory, eh?

    The system is all around us in our culture. It is all about rules, controls, checks and balances. This system is implemented by the powers that be to keep things running smoothly. Powers fear change, and therefore need the system to ensure that everything runs according to the plan.

    As an individualist, you have probably already dismissed the plan. You have probably already recognized it's shortcomings and weaknesses, whis is why you have chosen to branch off from it, rather than try to conform to the expected norm. I feel that this is a good thing, but you must realize that, because the powers fear change, they will resist you. They will try to force you into the system. They will become frustrated, and you will become angry. You wmay be branded as an "outsider" or "troublemaker". This is not a good thing.

    You cannot simply go against the system. The system is like a fast moving river, and you are stranded somewhere along it. The current tries to push you in a certain direction. If you try to fight the current, you will lose the battle, and be swept away nonetheless. What you must learn to do is work the system, the current. No one is asking you to go where the stream pushes you, but by watching how the water flows, and observing and learning it's patterns and behviours, you can use the current to take you where you want to go.

    As it is in the system. If you fight the system head-on, you will fall. It's not fair, but that's the way it works. What you need to do is look at how the rules of the system work, and learn to use, manipulate, and bend these rules to get you where you want to go. Don't reject the system outright, but rather use it's power to your own advantage. Don't let it change who you are, but rather find a way to make the system work with you.

    You will need patience. The system doesn't always let you move where you want to immediately. You must learn that, if you move in the right way, at the right time, you can go where you want to through the system. Attaining a harmony with the system, but not letting it control you, is the path to success. Ever see The Matrix? Kinda like that, only without having to jab a probe through your brain.

    So how do you make it through the system without becoming a drone? That's where the other point comes in: fuck it. No, I don't mean literally. You must also see that, despite the power of the system within mainstream society, it is not omnipresent. You must be able to "escape" the system every now and then. By reaching out and finding a peer group of people who are "on your level" and have also learned to see the system, you let yourself exist on an intrapersonal basis in an environment free of the rules of the system. The Internet is a great forum for this, as the deliberate environment of agreed anarchy precludes the intervention of the system. A warning though, don't let it become all-consuming. Don't let the Internet take the place of real intra-personal relationship, or the real-world skills that help you navigate the system will soon begin to decay.

    Once I made this realization, life suddenly became so much easier for me. I am still learning the rules, but the more I know about the system, the more I can manipulate it to my own ends as a non-conformist. You'd be suprised how often the powers can look past your individualism so long as they can't detect a threat to the system.

    In summary: The system is there. You can't stop it by fighting it. Don't give up your individualism. Learn how to work and use the system, and you will rise above it. Keep a few good friends, with whom you can relax outside of the system. Be yourself.

    Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    Adam Schumacher
    cybershoe@mindless.com

  • Why do people fear us geeks? by Nova (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:59PM
  • Parenting in a classed society. by Luis Casillas (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:20PM
  • Response... and some advice for HS kids by Luis Casillas (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:39PM
  • If you are a student reading this by Alan (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:32PM
  • Subdivisions - Conform or be cast out by Erbo (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:46PM
  • God Damn by Jordy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:04PM
  • by Analog (564) on Monday April 26 1999, @12:33PM (#1915263)
    I'm not sure where to start, but here goes.

    First, as regards those who are being mistreated in school as a result of this, the admininstrators are not your friends. Accept this. When you find this isn't true in the case of one individual or group of individuals (rare, but happens), treat them accordingly, but remember that they're there to make things run smoothly. If they can lower their workload by walking all over you, most will do it without hesitation. Expect it.

    So what to do? You people are supposed to be smart. God or nature may not have given you beauty or strength, but one of the premises here is that you to have brains. Use them. The letters to Katz show several lawsuits waiting to happen. Be aware that you don't have to file them (I never did). Go to the library. Read the relevant areas of the Constitution. Find some court cases that set precedents that favor your position. When Joe Administrator tries to force you into counseling for speaking your mind, lay it on him calmly, coolly, and with confidence. He will turn tail and hide.

    And if this doesn't work? Pick up a pen. "The pen is mightier than the sword" is an old cliche, but it's true. If you know how to use it. When my school implemented a draconian dress code (for no real reason that anyone could ascertain; the vice principal just decided to do it) I wrote a long editorial for the school newspaper. I pointed out the flaws in the reasons given for each specific rule. I did not call names. I did not use inflammatory language. I did use humor. I did cite legal angles. When the vice principal tried to kill the article, he was unsuccessful because he couldn't point to anything that was actually wrong with it other than it kind of made him look stupid. The dress code wasn't repealed as a result of this (it ain't a perfect world), but neither was it enforced. And if he had killed the article? First I would have offered to send it to the local paper along with an explanatory letter to the editor. This will usually work. If that hadn't worked, I would have gone ahead and sent them.

    The point is, you need to do what the TCM didn't. Take responsibility for your life. If you can get help from your parents or a teacher do so, but if you can't (I usually didn't) don't just roll over. There is always a way to fight back. You'll have to work harder than you should have to to find it, and you'll lose some frustrating battles, but if you're smart (and you are, right?) and careful, you'll win most. It is worth it. And you'll find that you might not have to wait until you're out of high school to laugh at the people who are putting you down.

  • To Sir With Love by kdart (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:35PM
  • Damn straight... by Indomitus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:29PM
  • Homeschooling -> 1 teacher by Indomitus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:44PM
  • Sales Weenies aren't losers? by Chris Johnson (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:52PM
  • If you are a student reading this- DAMN straight! by Chris Johnson (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @11:35AM
  • Taking away computers? by Trepidity (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:40PM
  • One word: homeschooling by Trepidity (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:45PM
  • I have a kid... So I'm homeschooling. by Trepidity (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:48PM
  • Beatles by Trepidity (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:20PM
  • Common Misconceptions by Trepidity (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:41PM
  • No Carnage by Trepidity (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:16PM
  • Religion != (bad || fanaticism) by Trepidity (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:27PM
  • I have a kid... So I'm homeschooling. by Trepidity (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:03PM
  • Games are the solution, not the problem by Have Blue (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:04AM
  • Objectivism and AYN RAND by Eric Green (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:33PM
  • More links by Eric Green (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:51PM
  • Older and maybe a little wiser by Riktov (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:05PM
  • Rings true to me by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:54AM
  • Stupid Kids by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:13AM
  • What to do by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:24AM
  • Questions by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:53AM
  • Why can so few others see this? by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:19PM
  • Why I wore a trenchcoat in HS by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:36PM
  • Why it can't be the lifestyle... by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:30PM
  • My Story by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:36PM
  • Vegetarians annoying! by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:20PM
  • The Most Powerful Kid in School. by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:26PM
  • Only in America by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:38PM
  • Hatred In High School by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:59PM
  • Heathers? by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:11PM
  • Religion != (bad || fanaticism) by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:34PM
  • targetting the REAL problems by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:04PM
  • Thanks Slashdot by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:28PM
  • Im going to lay on the line and be real. Flame me. by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:27PM
  • You are a loser. And a simp. by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:32PM
  • Oh yeah...and a Homophobe. by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:33PM
  • Wish I was still in High School... by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:35PM
  • In the world of intelligent comment... by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:36PM
  • You want to be a good little Nazi by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:41PM
  • Flame? Well, Okay. by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:48PM
  • i never got picked on... by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:50PM
  • I love people who lie about.... by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:54PM
  • entendre this! :-) by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:07AM
  • Misunderstanding the geeks by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:39AM
  • Gee.... You mean I'm not alone? (Rant) by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:51AM
  • Remembering high school by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:55AM
  • Whatever. by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:21AM
  • I am geek. Hear me... hear me.... AAAH-CHOO!!! by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:05AM
  • What's going on, IMHO by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:13AM
  • well actually. by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:10AM
  • Free Advice Works by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @10:16AM
  • Why can so few others see this? by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @10:37AM
  • Only in America by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @10:51AM
  • Dan in Boise,, contact your lawyer by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @11:48AM
  • Cheerleader/band geek by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:18PM
  • Cheerleader/band geek by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @08:40PM
  • Re:I think I'm going to be next by gavinhall (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @09:20AM
  • Re:Taking away computers? by gavinhall (Score:1) Thursday April 29 1999, @04:15PM
  • Re:MSU CS majors./Littleton incident backlash by gavinhall (Score:1) Saturday May 01 1999, @06:21AM
  • Don't let the bastards get you down by gavinhall (Score:1) Sunday May 02 1999, @12:35PM
  • What the hell!!! by gavinhall (Score:1) Sunday May 02 1999, @11:12PM
  • YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!! by gavinhall (Score:1) Monday May 03 1999, @04:59PM
  • Being different, repost from another forum by gavinhall (Score:1) Friday May 07 1999, @11:46AM
  • Re:What we are NOT allowed to talk about by gavinhall (Score:1) Friday May 07 1999, @01:13PM
  • Re:Misguided fools by gavinhall (Score:1) Friday May 07 1999, @01:30PM
  • Re:Funny, the jocks know... by gavinhall (Score:1) Tuesday May 18 1999, @09:55PM
  • Private schools don't get bad students as input. by DunbarTheInept (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:19PM
  • Very Familiar. (warning: long story) by DunbarTheInept (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:17PM
  • Excellent song. by DunbarTheInept (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:58PM
  • Get over yourselves! by pingouin (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:50PM
  • Sneeches, the Next Generation by pingouin (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:45PM
  • by silver (790) on Monday April 26 1999, @09:33PM (#1915337)

    This is exactly the kind of thing that needs to be written about the Colorado massacres. I just think it's a bit of a shame that we can't get columns like this into all the paper media.

    School can be hell. I think most of us know this on some level. I didn't go to school in America, I went to school in New Zealand and every day I experienced the same thing, the nasty comments, the abuse (both verbal and physical). I remember one day when four successive people walked past me and simply spat on me for no other reason than that I wasn't a conformist, I wasn't popular. I wasn't like them and what they don't understand they fear.

    The administration of my school, Riccarton High, in Christchurch, New Zealand, did nothing to stop this. What can you do when one of the people who teases you is the pricipals son and one of the people who spits on you as they walk past is the Deans son? Nothing, because you are different and they simply don't care and won't take the time to understand.

    The experiences I had a school almost made me leave, there were entire mothns when I didn't show up to shcool because I couldn't bear the thought of what would happen when I got there. I ended up in deep depression and in counselling for a couple of years after that.

    My only satisfaction comes from the fact that now I'm 23 years old and earning more than most of my teachers and have a hell of a lot more prospect that most of my fellow pupils, they may have been half-decent atheletes but they'll get old and slow and fat and I'll be sitting behind my terminal making their porn connection work.

    To everyone out there who is getting hell at school, bear with it. Let it flow past you and get on with your life. It will be the one of the hardest things you have to do but if you get through it and don't let them break you then you will win.

    We are not misfits, we are not dorks, we certainly aren't idiots. We are Morlocks and we will be the ones who make their world work when our time comes around.

  • What about other countries, why here? by AshNazg (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:29PM
  • wait a minute - access used to be EASIER!! by Wansu (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:27PM
  • Dan in Boise,, contact your lawyer by bluGill (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:03AM
  • This is the price of freedom! by bluGill (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:15AM
  • Taking away computers? by bluGill (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:30AM
  • One problem with homeschooling by bluGill (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:24PM
  • Remember: The best revenge is living well. by bluGill (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:31PM
  • How I escaped it all. by Damon C. Richardson (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:25PM
  • Just a thought by Eccles (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:03AM
  • Highschool is Hell, for everybody... by Eccles (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @09:38AM
  • May 19th, Geek Drop out day by Shanoyu (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:07PM
  • It could be fixed... but don't hold your breath by Ian Bicking (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:43PM
  • If you are a student reading this by Tadpol (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:21PM
  • the real problem lies here.. by pb (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:43PM
  • I don't think the murderers fit the profile here by Danse (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:19PM
  • Conditioned Response... by Danse (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:25PM
  • Violence is not the Answer by Phil Gregory (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:21AM
  • Wish I was still in High School... (Texas Acads) by C. E. Sum (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:09PM
  • Not everyone is stupid by C. E. Sum (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @11:35AM
  • [off topic] katz's quote marks by coats (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:35PM
  • Hang On! by bhurt (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:26PM
  • School Discipline is part of the problem by sjames (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:17PM
  • Conspiracy nut? by jedidiah (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:02AM
  • Sure wish we had a scapegoat... by ninjaz (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:26PM
  • What about other countries, why here? by ninjaz (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:34PM
  • What we are NOT allowed to talk about by ninjaz (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:08AM
  • school vs. real world by xpurple (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:59AM
  • What we are NOT allowed to talk about by Kestrel (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:45AM
  • Misguided fools by Kestrel (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:41PM
  • Black Ribbon by jafac (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:57PM
  • To hell with the public education system by jafac (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:00PM
  • Where were the Parents by jafac (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:05PM
  • If you are a student reading this- DAMN straight! by jafac (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:18PM
  • Anyone Remeber the Breakfast Club by jafac (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:20PM
  • Of course you're not OK! by jafac (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:00PM
  • A different school experience by jafac (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:18PM
  • I Hear The Tides Of Man by jafac (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:49PM
  • My $.02 by jafac (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:55PM
  • I CANT BELIEVE THIS CRAP by jafac (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:11PM
  • Outcast (Score:3)

    by jafac (1449) on Monday April 26 1999, @11:54AM (#1915377) Homepage
    To all high-school outcasts:

    We do all have something in common, but we're not all the same.
    I was a High-School outcast. I've often referred to that experience as "4 years of hell". I'm 31 now, and I've come to grips with what I went through, and why it happened. I dealt with it back then by kidding myself that I was smarter than them, better than them. Truth be told, I was at the exact 50th percentile in the class. Okay, I topped out all the standardized tests, and all the counsellors and teachers had these heart-to-hearts with me telling me how bright I am, how smart and talented I am, but really, I think at least some of that was a thin attempt to get me exited and involved in a world I had no interest in. Academics. So bottom line, I wasn't the "best and brightest" of my school, and now, 14 years later, I don't have the comfort of seeing all the jocks and preps working daddy's car dealership. (some of them)
    But I eventually figured out, the problem was me. For some reason, even in the professional world, I just don't fit in. I'm just not very socially - fluent(?). I don't know what it is, but at least now, I don't carry a lot of angst over it, I just deal with it as best I can. At least here, in the professional world, the people I work with are grown-up about it, and the wolf-pack mentality that kept me excluded and ostracized from everything in High-School is no longer present.
    I'm not as bad off as some of you. I've read about others in the "Why Kids Kill" column, some people have had counselling, drugs, and even "extended stays" at Arkham Assylum for the Criminally Insane.

    I don't know how to solve my root problem, social ineptness. I know it's a problem that feeds on itself, because the more aware of it I am, the more nervous I get around people, and the worse I am. But I do know that being online, and conversing with others online - like-minded or not, helps a lot. I don't even know if THIS problem is what causes ALL kids to be excluded and ostracized. I know there are probably other factors (economics, parental "connections", acne, physical stature, and hobbies). But I DO know one thing: If I knew then, what I know now, I would DEFINATELY done many, many things different, and perhaps, I would be in a much better position in life now.
    The main thing was, I couldn't see past age 18. When I was in High-School, I was so preoccupied with my misery, that I couldn't see my future at all. All I could see what I was missing out on. I think that this is a totally critical thing for kids going through this need to understand. That their situation is temporary, that the other kids are behaving the way they do because they're just kids. Most of them will grow up and stop being assholes. You can't wallow in self-pity like I did, because I ended up totally screwing up my life. And while things are going well for me now, at least financially, things could be MUCH MUCH better. (if only I had got good grades, and finished college, and not changed my major to art. ART?! What was I thinking? I don't know.)

    I think about these kids and I see that at least they had a clique to be in, though some of the other TCMs say that these two were fringe members, that may be some defensive distancing. I did try sports, and I did play some sports, but I wasn't accepted by the "jocks". There were a couple of instances where I DID actually go postal, but I was unarmed, so I didn't end up in the news. Luckily for me, I had a big brother who used to tease me and beat the crap out of me, so at least I knew how to fight. Won some, lost some, luckily, never got in trouble over it. But I didn't fit in with the intellectual geeks, I didn't fit in with the stoners, I didn't even fit in with the theater kids. I was kind of a fringe member of all those groups (except the preps, that was an economic thing, pure and simple - mommy and daddy didn't buy me a BMW to drive to school). I wasn't even accepted by the D&D players. I did dabble in Paganism, I did have a gun, I did build bombs (take the Anarchist Cookbook with a grain of salt, some of it is just plain wrong), and I read Che Gueverra. I guess I'm just lucky I never decided to end it all and take some people with me.
    (although - I wasn't ignored in a class of 400. I was voted "Most likely to blow up the world")
    In the end, I didn't bear a grudge against any individual. I guess I still feel anger, but you know, life is what it is, and it's the way it is. You can try to change it, but it's not likely, and bottom line, at least I'm not some poor Rwandan kid, starving in the savanna, witness to his parents being hacked up by machettes in tribal violence. Kind of puts things in perspective.

    And do I feel angry at how the press handles this shooting incident? You bet I do, but face it. These TV reporters and Politicians were all popular kids when they were in High-School. They have no idea, and can't possibly understand what we went through, and what you kids are going through now. And when they begin to understand, they HAVE to close their eyes to it. Can you imagine the guilt they must feel? (I do not feel sorry for them, but this is how I rationalize it).

    So I welcome this "movement", of outcast kids on the internet. It's pretty crappy that this is turning into a witch-hunt, but I think maybe we'll all be a bit smarter from this experience, and maybe we'll all see what this can lead to, and maybe, the things that I've said can help some of you (and maybe some of those "sociologists and psychologists" out there will get a freakin' clue!). Maybe this gathering on the internet is something that can finally help this situation, something that wasn't possible before (I know I certainly had zero outlet for these thoughts and feelings when I was a kid - there was no internet back then. Not like today.)
    So, for the kids who are getting their internet access cut off, I say, go to the library. Stay in touch with those who are going through the same things you are. I think it's the only way y'all are going to stay sane. (and by sane, I mean SANE, not "normal" or "conformist")

    And please, stay away from this Nazi crap. That's just stupid. I'm not going to bad mouth Paganism (though I don't recommend it, it didn't get me anywhere, in terms of spiritual peace), This Nazi stuff is just plain stupid. It's SO 50 years ago. . .

    Well, good luck.

  • To hell with high school, at least by Daverz (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:41PM
  • Partially agree.. by Thomas Charron (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:58AM
  • I'm sorry, but this kind of thing does happen by Thomas Charron (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:02AM
  • School... not bad EVERYWHERE by Niomosy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:13PM
  • geekgirls by Iffy Bonzoolie (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:46PM
  • Oh Give me a Break by jd (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:54PM
  • This is the price of freedom! by axolotl (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:59PM
  • My views by axolotl (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:42PM
  • Different in Canada? by SEGV (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:46PM
  • Let's make a support group! by Daniel (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:21PM
  • Why I'm laughing now. by Sabalon (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:25AM
  • Dan in Boise,, contact your lawyer by MoNickels (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:54AM
  • Wow by nstrug (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:11PM
  • Wow by nstrug (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @10:54AM
  • I hated High School by ChiefArcher (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:01PM
  • MSU CS majors... hehe. by Sabby (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:36PM
  • MSU CS majors... hehe. by Sabby (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:40PM
  • Test Group: Canada by Outlyer (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:11PM
  • Manufactured Education by Canis Lupus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:23AM
  • Temper the flames... by Canis Lupus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:43AM
  • hang in there by Rene S. Hollan (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:18AM
  • Objectivism and AYN RAND by Rene S. Hollan (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:27PM
  • Re-Read Your Economics 101 Book Again. by Rene S. Hollan (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:35PM
  • Er, you forget the Ecole Polytechnique by Rene S. Hollan (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:57PM
  • Yes; but then you'll turn 35 ... by Rene S. Hollan (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @12:07PM
  • well actually. by Derek Pomery (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:17PM
  • my money's worth by Tiny (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:48PM
  • Well Done. by Sly-Guy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:57PM
  • We are over ourselves. by tony@work (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:06PM
  • I Jon Katz Article I enjoyed by deanc (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:18PM
  • You're doing that pigeonholing thing too... by Timothy Chu (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @03:51PM
  • Is it 1984? I'm not sure... by InThane (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:00AM
  • This must end... by Millennium (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:41PM
  • Objectivism and AYN RAND by Millennium (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:26PM
  • Where were the Parents by Millennium (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:58PM
  • Where were the Parents by Millennium (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:02PM
  • Amen! by Millennium (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:17PM
  • Check out my page... by Mike Bedy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:06AM
  • High School Days by GrenDel Fuego (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:20AM
  • Re:You're right! by GrenDel Fuego (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:33AM
  • insanity.. by GrenDel Fuego (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:56AM
  • Crime dropping is not an excuse! by cirby (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:21AM
  • public education system costs by JimBobJoe (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:52PM
  • One word: homeschooling by acb (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:29AM
  • Free speech in schools? by acb (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:34AM
  • "worshipped Hitler"? Maybe. by acb (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:18PM
  • Damn straight... by acb (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:23PM
  • Damn straight... (Score:5)

    by acb (2797) on Monday April 26 1999, @10:45AM (#1915426) Homepage
    Far from being idyllic, happy communities, high schools (including the one in question) are hellish social pressure cookers. High school society is strictly regimented into rigid hierarchies; at the top there are the athletes, the cheerleaders and the kids with rich parents; the alpha primates. At the very bottom of the food chain are those who do not fit in. The environment is a closed system; there is only one hierarchy, and nowhere to run. And failure to conform is relentlessly punished, not by the indifferent authorities but by the system itself. Systematic physical bullying goes on on a scale sometimes reminiscent of the English public school tradition of "fagging". The whole system is sadistically elegant; if a latter-day Dante was writing an updated Inferno, he could scarcely find a better model than the social structures of the high school.

    This system evolved to serve a purpose; by ruthlessly punishing difference, rewarding conformity and reinforcing an immutable status quo, it creates the preconditions of a modern industrial society; a population of predictable, conditioned worker/consumer drones, people who accept their place in the great machine of society and don't make trouble. The relatively small number of murders and suicides is well within the margin of acceptable loss.

    Meanwhile, when the jocks and popular kids grow up, they take their places in the leader-caste of society; and while most of them are, by then, relatively decent individuals, they do not see that there is a problem. Hence, when a bunch of black-clad angstpuppies massacre some jocks and popular kids, the solution is obvious: sue the video-game companies, restrict the Internet. and ban aspects of outsider subcultures, such as black clothing.

    And so, the invisible hand increases the pressure even further.

  • My own story. A littleton response. by egnarts (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @04:24AM
  • Send this article/URL to mass media... by tjansen (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:35PM
  • Welcome to Germany, 1933. by Squeeze Truck (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:06PM
  • Huh? by Squeeze Truck (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:20PM
  • by jjohn (2991) on Monday April 26 1999, @11:19AM (#1915431) Homepage Journal
    Although I didn't have a rough time at all in high school, I think I can appreciate some of the problems that occur to "oddballs". High school nor society is ready to handle "special cases". Our country isn't very long on tolerance. It was founded by puritans after all...

    It is far easier to run a school like a prison than to maintain a place of independent thought. Even teachers are kept on a leash. It is also easier to fault "deviant" lifestyles, like Goths, Geeks or Gamers, than to admit the utter failure of our school systems to engender social skills in our children. Is it possible that parents need to do this themselves? Please, mom and dad are already working two full time jobs.

    In a fiercely capitalistic culture in which "greed is good", one's status increases by the number of people walked on. The outcasts deserved to be abused because they make the rest of us feel uncomfortable, right?

    I saw VP Gore talking about how we need to reduce the amount of violence we expose our children to. He didn't mention NATO's "relief efforts" in Kosovo as one of those harmful influences. Clearly, real violence isn't as harmful to children as Doom.

    What these Colorado kids lost wasn't their minds. It was hope. It's a shame what happened in Littleton. It's worse that our country won't learn squat from it.

    Is it me or does anyone else see some parallels to the movie _Heathers_?

    "What's your *damage*?"

  • GRRR! (wrong reasons) by Mickey Jameson (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:32AM
  • If only everyone watched "Saved by the Bell" by Pengveen (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:32PM
  • What kind of kids.... by Pengveen (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:45PM
  • by maynard (3337) <maynard AT jmg DOT com> on Monday April 26 1999, @11:17AM (#1915436) Homepage Journal
    As a 31 year old adult, far from the years of high school, I can tell you that those years were absolutely the worst time of my life. As a computer head and social outcast I grew up in a wealthy suburban town in Massachusetts. Getting teased regularly is one thing, but these kids assaulted me in large groups. I didn't stand a chance and the faculty refused to provide relief from my tormenters. If I attempted to defend myself the administrators would take me to task for supporting violence, yet would not prevent or punish those committing blatant violence against me and the other outcasts.

    This is a human rights issue. I know many who had to drop out of high school because it was just too dangerous to continue in school, even though we lived in a famous suburban town (known for it's involvement in the revolutionary war -- how ironic). School administrators use the threat of being outcast and regularly assaulted in order to force mental obedience. Because of my experience I will never place my children (when I do have children) in public schools. I would rather homeschool or find a good private school than potentially subject my children to that environment.

    Of course what those kids did was wrong. It pains me to know that they were pushed up against the wall and mentally twisted to the point where they murdered 13 others and then committed suicide. But the very fact that they planned suicide from the very start is telling: as far as they were concerned their lives were worthless because of the regular abuse they received. So they struck back by taking the lives of their tormenters. Kids who take enjoyment from dishing out abuse should take note of this event; they may reap what they sow in lead from their targets.

    And yes, nearly fifteen years after my walk through high school hell I am still angry over how I was treated and how the school administration prevented me from living in a reasonable non-violent and non-abusive environment. So, while banning trenchcoats, video games, and access to the Internet won't stop kids from going on insane murder sprees, school faculty and administrators might consider providing a safe and reasonable environment to learn without danger; that just might bring peace back to our schools.
  • Media mentions of "jock's intolerance" by SpiceWare (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:11AM
  • this is irrelevant by nadador (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:49AM
  • A different school experience FINALLY. by Mr.FreakyBig (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:11AM
  • Same old story.- older, though, than U8... by Rick_T (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:53PM
  • It's a two-stage process by freeBill (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:42AM
  • In my case, it was a physical handicap. I suffer from a neurological motor deficit. I was not able to speak clearly until I was 18 or so, and was very clumsy in my movement. It's gotten almost completely better over the years.

    As soon as I got to first grade, around 1963, the teacher heard the way I spoke and walked me down to the retarded children's classroom, where I stayed until my parents realized that my description of my classmates was a bit odd. No IQ tests or anything, she just dumped me in there. Once my parents found out, they tested my IQ (it was high) and put me back in the regular class, but the teacher resented it - she took every opportunity to tell me, in front of other students, that I was retarded and that I didn't belong in the class. This made me the school pariah until Junior High or so.

    The problem with American schools is the awful pressure on students to conform, when they simply can not do so due to the misfortune of being bright, handicapped, or in some way unusual. The pressure to conform is the same sentiment that causes racism and religious intolerance - there's simply a different group being hated this time. It is enforced by the students but it must come from the instructors and parents - where else would the students be getting it?

    Anger in our schools will be a problem until we can embrace our differences rather than try to iron them out.

    Bruce Perens

  • Jon Katz is king of De Nile by Dodja (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:58PM
  • Re:You're right! by Lurking Grue (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:15AM
  • Re:You're right! by Lurking Grue (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:53PM
  • Re:You're wrong! by Lurking Grue (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:09PM
  • very weak. -- excellent comment by jjoyce (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:42PM
  • What about other countries, why here? by K-Man (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:15PM
  • If you are a student reading this by Tsarnon (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:01PM
  • You're right! by scenic (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:51AM
  • You're right! by scenic (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:52AM
  • Depression is a bad sign by morbid (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:45AM
  • Motes, planks, and what could be done by motyl (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:36PM
  • I'm sorry, but this kind of thing does happen by Gambit Thirty-Two (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:54AM
  • Bloody merkins, was To hell with the public ... by Nicolas MONNET (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:30AM
  • scapegoat. by stevew (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:57PM
  • When DO children comprehend? by stevew (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:54PM
  • And German has a great word for it: by otis wildflower (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:25AM
  • Bloody frogs shouldn't comment... by otis wildflower (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:21PM
  • Forget guns, we should regulate breeding by otis wildflower (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:17PM
  • Apventures in education... by otis wildflower (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:48PM
  • Forget 1984, try Catcher in the Rye!!! by otis wildflower (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:59PM
  • Today, I was assaulted. by otis wildflower (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:15PM
  • A good article by otis wildflower (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:51PM
  • Apventures in education... by otis wildflower (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @09:27AM
  • I disagree too.. by otis wildflower (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:59PM
  • Bloody frogs shouldn't comment... by otis wildflower (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:10PM
  • The problem with Gifted programs... by jht (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:18AM
  • Anyone Remeber the Breakfast Club by dvdeug (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:19PM
  • Solutions? by squarooticus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:09AM
  • Subdivisions - Conform or be cast out by squarooticus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:00PM
  • Wow (Score:3)

    by squarooticus (5092) on Monday April 26 1999, @10:35AM (#1915472) Homepage
    This is unbelievable. Thanks, Jon. I never thought so many people felt the same way I did when I was in high school. Thankfully, things have changed for me in recent years (as they usually do), but that doesn't make the high school and middle school (worse for me) years any better.

    Thankfully, I'm an adult and can't have my net access taken away by mommy and daddy. =)
    --
    Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
  • School sucked by Chas (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:06AM
  • This is unreal!!!! by david_morgan (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:47AM
  • I don't Like Mondays... by law (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:14PM
  • I don't Like Mondays... - was a she by law (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:49PM
  • by clintp (5169) on Monday April 26 1999, @11:01AM (#1915477)
    My kid is 6 years old now. Very smart. Handles a computer better than most adults. (On his own correctly analyzed and fixed a hardware setup problem last week when his game stopped working...) He's not particularly athletic, he despises "team" sports, and he's a nonconformist. His chances are pretty good at being a smart outcast in school.

    I was blessed. I got to go through public elementary school in a 1-day-a-week gifted student program. Wonderful implementation. Freedom of expression was foremost. Most of those kinds of programs have dried up. I'm wondering if my child is going to have any way of expressing himself when his time to go through high school comes around. I doubt it. Parents are so quick to put on the Jackboots, and squash individuality. Supress individuality and expressiveness long enough, and it will find its own way out--in short, harmful, and explosive bursts.

    As a postscript, my wife and I have raised Foster Children before (and shortly after) our son was born. For children that are truly destructive, harmful, and uncontrollable there are lots of warning signs. In practice, they differ from expressiveness and individuality as much as a shovel from a bayonet. Only when expressed in the dry, clinicians language used for describing behaviour do the differences fade. "Flat, sharp, metallic, with a handle". It's this dry description that's going to be used to hunt down the individualists.

    (We had a Foster Child committed to a home for a while because of this kind of desctuctive behaviour, with good results. It's possible to tell the difference, and necessary to act on them.)

  • I don't think the murderers fit the profile here by cthonious (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:29AM
  • by cthonious (5222) on Monday April 26 1999, @11:49AM (#1915479)
    If they were enraged by jocks teasing them, why did they shoot everyone in the library? Hard to find jocks and other popular types in the library. If you look at the list of victims, there doesn't seem to be any method to it at all. If they wanted to get revenge on "popular students", why not crash the prom? It doesn't make sense.

    What the people can't accept is that the massacre was utterly meaningless. You have to consider a few things:

    • they had no intention of getting away with it (i.e., living through it)
    • there was no clear target - they were indiscriminate

    I just think they wanted attention; they wanted to do something superlative. When life is meaningless (and most surburban youth are upset at meaninglessness of bourgeouis life), there isn't anything else left. This doesn't look like the "suffering chilld being driven over the edge" thing to me.

    They were obsessed with Hitler. Hitler was definitely superlative. I guess they could have done something great, but slaughtering a crowd of helpless people is a lot easier than self sacrifice.

  • A few thoughts... by EngrBohn (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:51AM
  • A few thoughts... by EngrBohn (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:56PM
  • Good Point by EngrBohn (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:47AM
  • Working Class Hero by Darchmare (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @04:52AM
  • I CANT BELIEVE THIS CRAP by Darchmare (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:29AM
  • There's hope for /. "community" by Darchmare (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:35AM
  • insanity.. by Darchmare (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:39AM
  • the real problem lies here.. by Darchmare (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:54AM
  • What the hell is with you people! by Darchmare (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @08:29AM
  • Triggerman was a Jew by Darchmare (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @08:50AM
  • If you are a student reading this- DAMN straight! by mazeone (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:46AM
  • An idea: how to get the best of both worlds by Julian Morrison (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:05AM
  • Captain Bruce! by J05H (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:45PM
  • Hellmouth indeed (Score:3)

    by J05H (5625) on Monday April 26 1999, @11:00AM (#1915493) Homepage
    I hated high school.
    I REALLY hated high school.
    High school, the act of getting up every
    fscking morning to walk through hallways of
    laughing happy people, to get shoved around
    by people I didn't even know, to get called
    names for the way I dressed, spoke.

    I had friends, very close friends, but we
    were a tight group because of the oppression
    and crap that got thrown at us every day.

    I remember getting slammed into lockers every
    day for two years, over and over, for being
    a little different. I remember teachers,
    especially Mr Gunn, the coke head that stared
    down girl's shirts, simply turning away, knowing
    what was going on, but not caring.

    In my high school, you got kicked out for
    throwing a punch, so defending yourself from
    physical agression lead to suspension.

    I don't support what the kids in Colorado did, I
    think it's repugnant, but I understand how they
    were driven to what they did. The parents, guidance
    counselors and adminstrators don't have the balls,
    or intelligence, or compassion, to prevent this sort
    of thing from happening. Unless people, that is,
    teenagers in our schools, somehow start treating
    each other like valuable human beings, instead of
    social doormats, this sort of slaughter is going to
    continue as more of the discontent snap.

    Unfortunately, that does not seem to be what is
    happening. It seems that, so predictably, there is
    yet another backlash against the geeks, freaks,
    nonconformists and kids who don't fit in. "Be normal"
    they will tell you, over and over, "Try to get along",
    failing to realize that it's not you, but the savages
    that are stepping on you that are not being well
    behaved.

    To all /.ers that read this that are still stuck
    in high school: good luck with the next few years,
    my heart goes out to you. It should get better
    afterwards, it might not seem like it now, but there
    will be a time after school when you can look back
    and think "How did I survive that?"
  • geekgirls..oh where oh where can they be? by wynlyndd (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:18AM
  • Most backwards state? by wynlyndd (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:26AM
  • School sucks ... this is news? by wynlyndd (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:30AM
  • Outcasting and emotional expression by Kha0S (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:17PM
  • so-called life by wren (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:43PM
  • Choices of Evil by David Ishee (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:58PM
  • How to get this message to where it matters? by NeoTron (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:27AM
  • [off topic] katz's quote marks by knuth (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:55PM
  • Some Animals Are More Equal Than Others by knuth (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:17AM
  • screw that! by jwhyche (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:08PM
  • My story... (Score:3)

    by Anonymous Commando (6326) on Monday April 26 1999, @11:38AM (#1915504)

    With my 10 year high school reunion coming up, I'd been thinking a lot about my teenage years a lot. Now with the shooting, I can't think of anything else.

    I was always the weird kid. I completely sucked at any sort of sports - I was on the school softball team for a while in Grade 4, but quit after it conflicted with piano lessons. I am pretty near-sighted, so I've had glasses since I was 7 or 8. The school that I attended from kindergarten to grade 8 was living hell for me, especially in the later years (actually, the school shut down one year after I left due to the number of parents pulling their kids out). By that time, I had a shattered self-image and no self esteem. I got into some fights with other students, and began bullying other kids who happened to be just a little geekier than me.

    Grade 9 saw a new school for me, with the number of students at least a full order of magnitude greater than the previous school. Here again, I was ostracized and bullied. Gym class was a special sort of nightmare - eventually, I just skipped class. I took the grade 10 computer class along with a number of other grade 9 geeks, but wound up crossing paths with one of the grade 10 jerks in the class. None of the teachers knew me, or seemed to care.

    Grades 10 through 12 were at a private residential school in a small town about an hour away from my home city. The total enrollment in that school was about 115 students - the teachers knew each student by name. I believe that the three years at this school is what kept me from becoming a complete sociopath. It wasn't perfect - grade 10 was a bit of a rough transition, my roommate in the dorm that year was a complete psycho, and I threatened suicide twice - but I don't even want to think what would have happened to me back at my old school. The social structure among the students wasn't very rigid - you had your jocks and geeks, but they managed to get along fairly well (I sang in the school concert choir, along with most of the members of the basketball and volleyball teams). I made a number of lasting friendships from those years (and a couple of people that I hope don't show up at the reunion).

    I'd say I turned out pretty good, but I wonder what would have happened to me today? In grade 12, I grew a beard and dressed in camouflage. I read "International Combat Arms" magazine. I played computer games (Autoduel and Beyond Wolfenstein were favorites). I loved violent movies (Aliens, Predator, and Platoon were among my personal collection). I listened to heavy metal. I had an UZI water pistol. A kid like that today would be in serious counseling and/or surveillance.

    Life after high school has been pretty good. Got into BBS-ing in the early 90's (under the alias "Suburban Commando"), went to university, got into the Internet and earned my B. Sc. majoring in Computer Science, married a girl that I had met in high school, and I'm now the father of a 1-year-old girl. I've got a good job as network admin for a small company (even if it is an NT network), and I'm happy with my life. I don't wear camouflage any more, but I still listen to loud music, play games like Quake and Jedi Knight, and I drive my car a little too fast sometimes. But I survived high school, and I'm happy now.

    This shooting has hit me pretty hard. I can understand what the two shooters were feeling - I'm not condoning their actions, but I think I understand their motives. Revenge is a powerful drive, pain and hate are powerful emotions, and it's pretty easy to let them override common sense. To everyone who is currently in high school, I just want to say "hang in there". It'll soon be over, and then you can get on with the rest of your life.
    ________________________

  • Let's see it for what it is by gelfling (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:34AM
  • Forget guns, we should regulate breeding by Zagadka (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @11:27AM
  • Re:Forget guns, we should regulate breeding by Zagadka (Score:1) Thursday April 29 1999, @12:07PM
  • sympathy by Qeyser (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:30AM
  • You didn't make him bleed! by VinceV (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @11:59AM
  • daydreams &amp; nightmares by Benjy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:01PM
  • It doesn't have to be that bad by Fluffy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:59AM
  • Memories by BrianB (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:41AM
  • Welcome to 1984... by Ethan Butterfield (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:33AM
  • Wow by Acronym (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:03PM
  • I have a kid...I'm really dreading this... by jawildman (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:06PM
  • I have a kid...I'm really dreading this... by jawildman (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @11:42AM
  • entendre this! :-) by chialea (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:08PM
  • Amen for geekgirls by chialea (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:14PM
  • geekgirls by chialea (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @11:06AM
  • Within the margin? So far, so (SPLAT!) by leonbrooks (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @01:56AM
  • Sympathizing with the wrong people ... by Phlod (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:22PM
  • School Life. by Accipiter (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:26AM
  • Agree 100%: Where were the Parents? by Thag (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:22PM
  • Get REAL! (You all should come live in Europe!) by argathin (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:48PM
  • geek life by Mutex (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:23PM
  • My parents wouldnt stand for that crap by Squiggle (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:33PM
  • Common Misconceptions by Dictator For Life (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:53PM
  • Common Misconceptions by Dictator For Life (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @04:12PM
  • We're all still a bunch of tribal monkeys... by GoodDoug (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:28PM
  • Blaming the Mirror... by Pym (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:46PM
  • by ghjm (8918) on Monday April 26 1999, @04:02PM (#1915531) Homepage
    I may be in a uniquely qualified position to comment on this issue, as I moved from Canada to the U.S. halfway through high school. This was in the mid-80s, and I don't think American high schools were as bad then as they are now, but the difference was obvious.

    In elementary school (in Canada), I was picked on by the other kids pretty badly. But when I got to high school, I didn't have any real problems, even though I was high-IQ, low-brawn, into computers, etc. The high school I went to in Canada had less restrictive policies than some American universities. You were expected to go to class, and if you failed to show up for a scheduled class more than once or twice, the school would call your parents and get you in trouble. But at lunch time, or before and after school, or during a period when you hadn't scheduled a class (what American students call a "study hall" - we called it a "spare"), you pretty much did whatever you wanted: Go sit in the cafeteria or the library, walk across the street to the nearby shopping center (which had a video arcade and a food court), what have you.

    After a couple years of this, I moved to the U.S. and was thrown into an American high school. I showed up the first day with a walkman, like I'd worn to school every day for the last two years; it was immediately confiscated. We were not allowed to be in the halls during class without a signed note from a teacher; we were absolutely not permitted to leave school grounds during the day (except for seniors who, only if they had their own car, were conditionally permitted to go out to lunch, no more than two days a week). If we didn't schedule a class during a period, we had to go sit at a desk in a classroom, with a teacher sitting up front but not teaching anything--and we weren't allowed to _go to the bathroom_ without asking permission first.

    After about a week in this environment, I realized, not without some horror, that these people were children and that I would have to spend the next two years being treated like one of them. The coursework was almost without exception pure memorization and repetition--in my case, it involved a heavy diet of American propaganda indoctrination ("civics") because this was the only graduation requirement that I hadn't already satisfied. Happily, the school I went to had a "gifted & talented" program and I managed to find a couple courses that were actually interesting--AP physics and calculus.

    I also met my first geek when I went to the computer club. Now, there are undoubtedly geeks in Canada; I'm not trying to say there aren't. But these people bought into every negative stereotype about themselves. They didn't just like playing with computers; they defined themselves by _hating_ the good-looking kids. I didn't get this at first, and almost wound up ostracized by every group at the school including the geeks. But as it turned out I was a lot better at the computer stuff than all but a couple of them, which earned me some respect.

    Then there was the racial tension. In gym class, the black kids and the white kids actually played on opposite sides of the gym. This was so far beyond my comprehension that I didn't even notice, and went and played on the wrong side. They whipped me into line pretty quick--and it wasn't just the students; the gym teacher took me aside and told me what the deal was--as if it had official approval!

    In short--I've never been in a more hateful, useless, divisive, nasty place than an American high school, and I can state from experience that there's no inherent reason why it has to be that way. It may sound like I'm painting Canada as some land of milk and honey--but believe me, that's not what I think at all (otherwise why would I still live in the U.S.)--and I have no way of knowing what's happened to Canadian high schools in the last 15 years. But if Canadians rarely kill each other in their schools, maybe there are good reasons why.

    I think that the heart of this problem is the notion of discipline in schools. As much as Americans talk about freedom and liberty, they sure aren't comfortable with it in practice. America can be (and is) one of the most oppressive nations in the developed world. Hell, any politician who doesn't have quite as many votes as he would like can run a "get tough on crime" campaign and win an election. And what's the effective difference between "get tough on crime" laws in America, and oppressive social policy in places like China and Saudi Arabia?

    The typical American on the street is strongly in favor of, to name a few, state-sponsored execution; state-sponsored political assassination (of foreigners, never of Americans--but no qualms about foreign heads of state, Geneva conventions be damned); immediate death penalties for anyone even suspected of, say, selling drugs to children; economic "starvation warfare" against civilian populations; the sale of heavy arms to essentially crazy people (ie state militias); and God knows what else--I can't even go on.

    And they want to blame violence in the schools on Quake and Doom? Please.

    The penchant for extreme violence and extreme social oppression is built into the American psyche. You can't get away from it. The use of language, the mass entertainment, the political scene, the reality of many neighborhoods--you can't turn around twice without being confronted by violence. Hell, America was founded on violence; up to maybe four generations ago, a fairly typical way to get land to live on was to go drive off or kill the native people who lived there. There's the old joke about an American and a Canadian talking about guns: "Guns are necessary," says the American, "because without guns we couldn't have won the West from the Indians." Replies the Canadian: "Did you ever think of making friends with them?"

    But even with all the violent tendencies in the world, it's very difficult to act on them if you don't have a gun. Guns are the basic problem. Gun advocates will quote the Constitution as if it were holy writ: I say, the Constitution be damned; the provision for well-armed militias was written when the worst thing you could carry was a wheel lock musket. Stop hiding behind the Constitution and tell us exactly how free access to guns helps build communities in our cities. A note to the clue-challenged: You can't. They don't. Wake up.

    -Graham
  • Sitation in Sweden is different. by LarsWestergren (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:42AM
  • salt in the wound that is my brain by bahamuut (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:09PM
  • On being an outsider by artdodge (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @11:12AM
  • Text of Suicide Note by Evan Vetere (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:24PM
  • Text of Suicide Note - Apparent only by Evan Vetere (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:02PM
  • Forget guns, we should regulate breeding by Logger (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:35PM
  • [off topic] katz's quote marks by Cid Highwind (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:21AM
  • The American quick fix mentality in action by Rabid Wombat (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:32AM
  • Objectivism and AYN RAND by Rabid Wombat (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:56PM
  • There are ways out by Phrack (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @08:08AM
  • Teenage Angst by MuyJuan (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:00PM
  • HS is hell... by UncleRoger (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:12PM
  • To hell with the public education system by Boomhow?er (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:12AM
  • How I survived... by ch-chuck (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:25PM
  • I wanted to kill! by poohbear_honeypot (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:00PM
  • If you are a student reading this by dria (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:18PM
  • I don't think the murderers fit the profile here by psaltes (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:02AM
  • by bughunter (10093) on Monday April 26 1999, @11:20AM (#1915549) Homepage
    Hell. I remember it. Not only was I a geek, but my parents moved so much that I went to 5 different high schools in four years. Actually, that probably insulated me from a lot of peer abuse, but it also insulated me from peers in general. High school was a living hell for me, just as it is for Katz' correspondents.

    Administrators at every level between guidance counselor to President Clinton are asking "what can be done?" Yet they fail to understand that they are as much to blame as the TCM's parents. They fostered the environment where anyone who is not a superficial stuck-up bimbo or a dumb masochistic macho jock is an outcast, and ridiculed.

    What can be done? Provide some socially acceptable environment other than battle.net for exceptional teens. Don't penalize them for being bored by the least common denominator curriculum you dole out in uniform, non-challenging parcels. Give them some advanced curriculum that interests them. Just pay attention to them fer christsake, instead of ignoring and berating them... instead of joining along with the kids you're supposed to be leading.

    These are the people we need to drag this sorry ass culture from the depths of fossil fuel addiction. These are the future researchers who will find cures for aids and cancer. These are the future entrepreneurs who will raise this economy from of the ashes of depression when our paper tiger economy burns up. Wouldn't it be wise to nurture them instead of the future Anchor Bimbos, Housewives, Lumberworkers, and Linesmen?

    Maybe it would be a start if we began to place a little more value on the teachers and administrators themselves. We don't exactly attract the best people to these jobs - I can count on one hand the number of teachers that actually taught me something. I acquired an education in spite of the rest. And the administrators... well, I won't repeat cliched jokes.

    But consider - when your principal and dean were in high school, which group did they belong to? It's a self-perpetuating system...

  • Violation of civil rights by NYC (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:26AM
  • Violation of civil rights by NYC (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:28AM
  • Taking away computers? by ToastyKen (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:52PM
  • Wrong. by Enucite (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:43PM
  • Highschool is Hell, for everybody... by crovira (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @11:02AM
  • What college? by Dast (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:20AM
  • What college? by Dast (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:25PM
  • How do you protect kids from other kids?? by Dast (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:58PM
  • MSU CS majors... hehe. by Dast (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:37PM
  • Small towns and nerd life... by Dast (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:23AM
  • by Dast (10275) on Monday April 26 1999, @11:08AM (#1915560)
    The social hierarchy that exists in today's public education system determines an individual's status based on the wrong set of criteria. Rather than rewarding intelligence and free-thought, people are segregated by "popularity"--and popularity is a balance of good looks, money, and lack of thought.

    Now, I'm not saying that the members of the TCM didn't have serious problems. I certainly think the whole "Hitler's birthday" thing was very odd. But I do sympathize with the reasons they feel the way they do (just not with the way they choose to express it).

    On one hand, I think that the increased exposure of this problem may help. On the other, I hope that this backlash against free-thinkers in school doesn't make things worse. It is disgusting how school administration seems to beat down anyone who feels like the TCM did. They might as well call in the thought police and eliminate crimethinkers. Sheesh.

    I am surprised that I didn't explode and spray automatic fire all over the schools I went to. (Everyone expected me to.) The reason I didn't was because I was brought up by good parents who took interest in what I was doing, rather then letting me make bombs in the garage. Take away good parenting and you will have a lot more kids who kill.

    But that is just me.
  • Hang on in there..... by SparkyUK (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:21AM
  • Speak out now. by JoeyLemur (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:28PM
  • Great article by Pinehill.net (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:17AM
  • My $.02 by LWolenczak (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:22PM
  • Taking away computers? by xyzzy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:40PM
  • Taking away computers? by xyzzy (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @10:55AM
  • Shift Your Focus by Chris Lindsay (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:14PM
  • Text of Suicide Note - Apparent only by Chris Lindsay (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:52PM
  • I have a kid...I'm really dreading this... by Nate237 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:05PM
  • Sympathy for the Wrong People by Romen (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:22PM
  • As Stupid as Ever by DH1 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:44PM
  • Geek profiling by Cally (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:10AM
  • What about other countries, why here? by Cally (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:51PM
  • the Geek shall inherit the earth by WH (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:49PM
  • 20 years from now... by Drakino (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:28PM
  • 10 years after HS, and I can still feel the anger by BlackWind (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @03:27AM
  • hang in there by toriver (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:19AM
  • Only in America by toriver (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:13AM
  • Wow by Ian Pointer (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:53AM
  • What about other countries, why here? by Ian Pointer (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:58PM
  • Sure wish we had a scapegoat [off-topic response] by ralphclark (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:00AM
  • What about other countries: Report from the UK by ralphclark (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:05AM
  • Questions by JohnnyX (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:38PM
  • Not Gun Control, Pipe Control by JohnnyX (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:08PM
  • Guns are peripheral to the actual problem by JohnnyX (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:53PM
  • by PsychoSpunk (11534) on Monday April 26 1999, @10:55AM (#1915586)
    Yeah, it may sound strange but I wish that right now I was still in high school. That way I could effectively fuck with the administrators minds.

    I was the "popular loner" in high school, a term that it took me years to create, but none to recognize. I was in all the "nerd classes" and I loved them, but even more importantly so were many of the "preps, jocks (shocking, huh?), and other popular people." I got lucky, as I was held with esteem by classmates for my intelligence. But then again, I didn't have a real girlfriend until I left high school. It is a stark dichotomy, and I imagine had I written my first poem this month rather than in '92, my english teacher would have sent me for counseling.

    What hasn't been written is the other "escape plans" that students have available to them. My sophomore year, I was selected to attend the "Texas Governor's Honors Program" (btw if you're a TGHPer from '93 or later, send me a line at this email [mailto]) and it was a pure joy that changed my life forever. A year later, I left for college before graduation at a program held at the same school as TGHP called the Texas Academy for Leadership in the Humanities [anapraxis.cx]. (That link goes to our reunion planning page for those of you academy kids who run across it.)

    Texas has two such programs, TAMS @ UNT and the Academy @ Lamar-Beaumont. It let me leave an atmosphere that was stifling to go to a program where I was not alone in my desire for REAL EDUCATION! Unfortunately, public schools don't promote these opportunities because they would lose federal aid if they did. The government gives money for attendance, that's why these programs are hard to find. They exist, probably in abundance, but they are hush-hush.

    I urge anyone who is a high school student who is a geek, nerd, dork, or "popular loner" to investigate these types of programs. Invest in your future and your pleasure. And for those older geeks with kids, help them if they don't fit in. I know I'm preaching to the choir because I imagine that parents who love learning support their children, I know mine do.

    Please for the sake of everyone, do the Right Thing and give these kids what they really need, and that is not counseling, it's respect.

    Mike Ford
  • yuck by giuoco (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:49PM
  • Thanks Slashdot, thanks John by Norman Lorrain (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:42AM
  • If only everyone watched "Saved by the Bell" by johnus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:18AM
  • You're right! NOT! (Score:3)

    by johnus (11641) on Monday April 26 1999, @11:02AM (#1915590) Homepage
    > I have zero sympathy for the TCM.

    You are missing the point here. As other people have said, the media has totally latched on to the wrong thing. This wasn't the actions of the whole little group, this was the actions of a couple (maybe few) totally messed up individuals.
    If a Slashdot poster goes out tomorrow and guns down 10 people and the media gets a hold of the knowledge that he's a member of slashdot, what will happen? You better believe that everyone here would be shunned by the media. Not because we are all bad, but because we had one bad apple. The media would do the whole Slashdot = EVIL, geek = dangerous, smart people= bad people. Just like they have in CO. Look at some of the discussions here! Insults abound. Some people hate Katz, some people hate Star Wars, we generally say what we feel (and sometimes it isn't very pretty at all).

    In the article above, people are being shunned and mentally evaluated for saying things like we say here every day. Now that is sick. And people here with no clue just say the whole group is bad, i don't feel sorry for them... You should. Because once people start losing freedoms for wearing a trench coat or listening to MManson or playing Doom or Quake, we've started on a long slippery road.

    When you stop defending other people's freedoms, where are you going to be when they start restricting yours?
    You're going to be up a certained un-named creek, because there are no free people left that want to defend your freedoms.
  • Revenge of the nerds? by dwlemon (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:25PM
  • Solutions? by Christopher Thomas (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:25PM
  • Where else they would be getting it from. by Christopher Thomas (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:41PM
  • What about other countries, why here? by Christopher Thomas (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @01:01PM
  • hang in there by Linus H. (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:10PM
  • I got bullied at school... by Bowdie (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:25AM
  • I hated middle school/high school... by Natedog (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:43AM
  • Oh please!!! by Natedog (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:46PM
  • Sympathizing with the wrong people ... by Augusto (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:37PM
  • BINGO ! Moderators, please ++ parent message ! by Augusto (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:08PM
  • Follow up on this ... by Augusto (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:58PM
  • Uh ... hello ??!?!? by Augusto (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:33PM
  • The evidence is there ... by Augusto (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:45PM
  • ... please ... by Augusto (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:49PM
  • It's a matter of respect by Augusto (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:47AM
  • hollow by willhelm (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:09PM
  • Blame the fingers... by pspeed (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:13PM
  • just drop out. by Lx (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:46PM
  • You're doing that pigeonholing thing too... by nixon (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:22AM
  • Beware simple solutions. by Venomous Louse (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:27PM
  • Uh . . . by Venomous Louse (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:09PM
  • Some thoughts... by ShinGouki (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:03AM
  • Don't read this. by Paranoid (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:13PM
  • Taking away computers? by finkployd (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:10PM
  • 'fit in' vs. be friendly by Red Leader. (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:58PM
  • Wow (Score:3)

    by awrc (12953) on Monday April 26 1999, @01:10PM (#1915616)

    I would be interested to hear from any UK posters whether this atmosphere has developed in schools there - it certainly didn't exist when I left school (12 years ago)

    Maybe you were just lucky? It was certainly there to some extent when I was at High School, and I left 13 years ago. I was fortunate in escaping most of the casual humiliation (never did figure out why, to be honest, but I suspect it's because that while a nerd, I didn't diverge too far from the norm in appearance) but still had a hellish time, largely due to a value system that strongly valued athletic achievement over scholastic. So, while I was a very good student (typically in the top two or three in the year right through high school) the fact that I couldn't kick a ball to save my life made me a 2nd class citizen behind those who could.

    There were a number of inconsistencies in school policy that made it worse. The school streamed heavily, which generally meant that you ended up in a class with people of similar ability. Not so games class, where everyone was thrown in together in the name of "team spirit", and folk who tripped over their own feet like myself were expected to compete against people who, in some sports, played at a national level.

    Needless to say this was seen as "payback time" by some ("hey, it's kick the nerd time!"), and the teachers encouraged rather than discouraged this (in most cases, I suspect, because they'd done this themselves when they were kids - sorry, but at my school the P.E. teachers did nothing to dispel the usual stereotype). Just to make it more fun, P.E. was the only subject that was compulsory right through all six years of high school - the only way I escaped this particular torment was a nervous breakdown and suicide attempt at 16 after I couldn't take the combined taunting and verbal abuse of kids and teacher. Thereafter, while my grades stayed good, life became increasingly unpleasant as I was passed over and to some extent ostracized by the school itself - the P.E. department had a lot of influence in the running of the school, and anyone the P.E. department didn't like (I heard through a teacher that the department considered me "unstable and unsuitable for positions of responsibility" because of what happened) got ignored. Cue standard teen "school razed to ground" fantasies (although I'd like to stress that while the physical structure of the school was oft reduced to rubble in my dreams, I didn't harbour similar feelings regarding my fellow students - the worst offenders tended to drop out at 16, and the teacher who'd induced my breakdown seemed to undergo a change in attitude after realizing that his little games had caused a student to try to kill himself)

    This sort of thing coloured my entire experience of high school - you'd think that a "good student" would miss leaving, but on the day I left I (quite literally) jumped for joy as I passed through the gate for the final time, and I've never had anything to do with the place again, and never will. Bitter? Twisted? You bet! In fact, it was an "I'll show them" mentality that propelled me through the last two years of high school, directing my bitterness and resentment into work to make the disparity between recognition and achievement all the clearer.

    To those who're going through it now, I know it's no real compensation to know that it'll end eventually when it's hell on earth right now. All I can say is to try holding on and putting up with it as long as you can, and when you make it to the end, the reward is worth it. My experience at university couldn't have been more different, and while the smarts that were so undervalued then are of use to me daily in my work, I can safely say that my inability to kick, hit or catch a ball hasn't proved relevant in real life.

  • Reality ... by sadist (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:39AM
  • the last one drives the point home for me... by j h woodyatt (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:00PM
  • Why do people fear us geeks? by WebFetus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:11PM
  • The Great American Melting Pot... by jabber (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:35PM
  • Bodybuilding and weightlifting helped me a lot by kinesis (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:38PM
  • Test Group: Canada by kinesis (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:08PM
  • Geek to sheek: I'm now a jock! by kinesis (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:23PM
  • Jon's writing...remember the early years? by detailer (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:11PM
  • Um... by detailer (Score:1) Thursday April 29 1999, @01:21PM
  • Private schools don't get bad students as input. by Optical (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:13AM
  • Trial By Fire? by Paradox (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:29PM
  • Littleton is a tragedy. by DHartung (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:37PM
  • by DHartung (13689) on Monday April 26 1999, @12:08PM (#1915629) Homepage
    First, I'm touched by much of this article. I recognize all these adolescent voices in myself 20 years ago ...

    Second, I'm appalled to hear that this tragic incident in Colorado has, apparently, led to more, not less, marginalizing and ostracizing of today's misfits ... of which, in each generation, there are many.

    The bad news is that this tragedy has got the talking heads jumping on all the wrong "solutions" in the hope of appearing concerned and serious (rather than merely exploitative). Ban guns. No, make teachers wear them. Ban trench coats. Ban Quake. Run Net Nanny. Throw the misfits into counseling. Throw the misfits out of school. Throw the misfits in jail, just in case. See, if you're a misfit ... if you don't fit in ... it's your fault. You're different. Perhaps you're disturbed. You've got a problem, and we can solve it by making you conform.

    The good news -- as Bill Maher pointed out [go.com] the other night -- is that high school is not the map of adult life that many believe it to be. The jocks will end up selling cars, and the geeks will end up building the systems that run the robots that make the cars. Bill Gates. Linus Torvalds. John Carmack. Thresh. There's life out there, kids.

    If only all geeks, nerds, and misfits knew this simple truth: for too many people, high school is the high point of their entire lives. How sad!

    Conformity is not the answer. Why join the masses in their hagiographic awe of the vapid period that is high school? But we need to work on treating depression and isolation in our young people. It would be neat if this incident led to all the halfwit jerks in high schools across our great land realizing what their harassment has done and stopping it ... but there's always next year's class, and this will be forgotten. Rejection and social pressure are normal parts of adolescence; dealing with it is something we don't often teach kids. And individual misfits often bear the brunt of several insecure, mainstream teenagers' harassment.

    If only I'd known that life would get better! If only I'd known how insecure my tormentors were! If only I'd known how to build my own self-esteem through personal challenge and risk-taking! Instead, I struggled with inner pain for another twenty years. I can never get back those lost days. But maybe, maybe we can keep some other kids from ending their lives, or from becoming killers.
  • I was a Jock/Geek in trechcoat. by Xiver (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:51PM
  • I was a Jock/Geek in trechcoat. by Xiver (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:51PM
  • To Sir With Love by Weasel Boy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:30PM
  • Nice sentiment, if not apropos by Weasel Boy (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @09:22AM
  • Littleton II: The Overreaction by Weasel Boy (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @11:31AM
  • geekgirls (long) by K_Murray (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @08:14AM
  • Life, The Universe, and Everything. by red_one (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:47AM
  • i hated school by generic (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:46AM
  • I *liked* High School (A European perspective) by mato (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:46AM
  • One problem with school by Roy Ward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:32PM
  • How to get this message to where it matters? by Roy Ward (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:53PM
  • What about other countries, why here? by Roy Ward (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:25AM
  • A lot of outcasts bring it on themselves by Zico (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:05PM
  • There's more to life than high school by grae (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:37AM
  • 'Should geeks go to college?' by cesarb (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:54PM
  • School can indeed be hell if you're different by Mark Gordon (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:03PM
  • Is it 1984? I'm not sure... by col (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:49PM
  • To hell with the public education system by sammy baby (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:55AM
  • Jon's writing and this tragedy. by sammy baby (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:59AM
  • Probably an unpopular opinion... by grappler (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @12:08PM
  • PARENTS, OPEN YOUR EYES! by krb (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:22PM
  • Inside looking outside... by JDLazarus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:45PM
  • GEDs by JDLazarus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:52PM
  • insanity... is a precision instrument. by JDLazarus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:59PM
  • Inside looking outside... by JDLazarus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:10PM
  • GEDs by JDLazarus (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:56AM
  • Religious Schools are Not Public Schools by JDLazarus (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @10:43AM
  • Damn straight... by bobsquat (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:30PM
  • geekgirls by wiz_80 (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:44AM
  • Confessions of a Nerd by LordMyren (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:06PM
  • sounds familiar. by aderack (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:01PM
  • Wow by Mindwarp (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @11:56AM
  • Life at High School by Dnigh (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:04PM
  • Here ain't &quot;Hellmouth&quot; by Amoeba Protozoa (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:08PM
  • Wow by kertaamo (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:31PM
  • America's gotta overdo everything, right? by Bartmoss (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:39AM
  • What about other countries, why here? by Bartmoss (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @04:03AM
  • why private schools might be better by elizabeth (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:29PM
  • You will be assimilated.... by c64k (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:05AM
  • It is the real world by gehrehmee (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:33PM
  • It is the real world by gehrehmee (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:34PM
  • what everybody is forgetting by Mennie (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:34PM
  • what you are wrong about by Mennie (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:27AM
  • by swerdloff (16397) on Monday April 26 1999, @11:30AM (#1915673) Homepage
    As with every democracy (even the representative democracies) the US has a problem on its recently re-bloodied hands: how do you serve the minority when majority rules? The short answer is: usually, you don't.

    In high schools across the country, students are ritually ostracized, ignored and avoided by their peers, supposed mentors and potential friends, because they dress differently, they listen to different music or they have the wrong color skin. This is not news.

    The Slashdot community (can I call us that?) is in a bit of an uproar, because "Hey, those guys over there in Colorado, that's us... or could be if we lost it... not saying that we'd blow people up or anything, but jesus, it'd be nice to get some revenge on these jerks who've been mercilessly picking on me since they developed muscles and I learned to code." Not that slashdotters would actually go out and do anything violent. We've got better things to do. Like watch freshmeat update. Or daytrade. But still, we can understand.

    So teachers get worried. Because, after all, many of their middle school students are already more intelligent than they are. Not in all cases certainly, but after all, those who can, do, those who can't teach, right? Obviously overgeneralized, but you get the picture. When you have to send your eigth grade student over to the local college to get math tutoring, you have to worry that maybe the kid, without guidance, will be a bit of a danger. Because it's not a far jump from learning math to learning physics to learning chemistry to making bombs. Especially with such easy access to violent images in the media, not to mention the sex and violence they learn in Sunday school from the bible.

    So teachers run scared of their students, who can, in many cases, out-think them, certainly outnumber them and with a bit of weaponry, could destroy them. Small wonder that that they trample students civil rights in the name of protecting themselves and other students. Small wonder that they pawn intelligent students off on psychiatrists, guidance counselors and the schools principal (Remember, the principal should be your pal... or treat him like a member of your family... an older brother...) when any student shows promise, or interest in something not specifically in the curriculum.

    A fascination with war could be interpreted in two ways: if the kid is a jock, he's a West Point cadet, if he's abnormally intelligent, he's Oppenheimer, pursuing a "sweet technology" at the Trinity site.

    How do you balance your fear of those who are more able than you with your duty to them as a teacher? Here's a thought: punish students who pick on other students, instead of ordering the students who get picked on to go to counseling.

    You want solutions: don't turn to parents, who have turned absentee-landlord. Maybe it's time to up teachers salaries, so we can get teachers that are more able to cope with gifted and ostracized students. Perhaps looking to a President nicknamed "Bubba" is the wrong thing to do when dealing with the rights of the oppressed? Maybe it's time for corporations to send their techies out to do some one on one, or one on groups with gifted students? Show them that at the end of the tunnel is a paycheck, if not a light. Maybe it's time to stop handwringing and ask the "misfits" what it is exactly we'd like, why we hate four years of life and how we could make it better. Because you certainly won't see teachers reproaching the football team for locking the chess club in lockers and setting fire to the swim teams clothing. But you will be sent home for wearing a trenchcoat.

    Because many of us can understand the hatred that wells up in the pit of the stomache when the opposite sex laughs at your advances, the media gives you no voice and your peers and mentors all view you askance because you have been cursed with intelligence, or view the world slightly differently, or have acne, or god forbid, are of a race not the majority. Those of us who have made it through the gauntlet of high school, getting marginalized, ignored and offended, could take some of these marginalized kids, and help them.

  • Something is very wrong by arcade (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @05:58AM
  • Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.. by [ Nighthawk ] (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:44AM
  • Open Letter from MIT by tcp (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:04PM
  • It's not only in your country by Masamune (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:18AM
  • Same old story. by mhat (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:04AM
  • scapegoat. by Camelot (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:16AM
  • Motes, planks, and what could be done by Zach Frey (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:38AM
  • "Pump Up The Volume" by Tekmage (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:27AM
  • My sentiments precisely. by Yohimbe (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:55AM
  • Very few sensible parents by lee (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:15PM
  • Some Concerns, and One Way to Fight Back. by telematx (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:46PM
  • You miss the point by akintayo (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:40AM
  • My 2 cents by Scudsucker (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:21PM
  • Finding Roots by Berdwa (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:05AM
  • My view by Rini (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:28PM
  • You're right! by dillon_rinker (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:13AM
  • 'fit in' vs. be friendly by SpacePunk (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:11PM
  • Can we see part of the problem here... by Seth Scali (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:25AM
  • High School in the '80's. by humphrm (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:55AM
  • Excelent... by kennedy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:58AM
  • Some ideas. by dlowe (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:49PM
  • My thoughts by jmroberts70 (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:33AM
  • One problem with homeschooling by Jerry Kindall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:05PM
  • Yes you will too by yzorderex (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:51PM
  • Internet:The greatest thing since pre-sliced bread by GreyFauk (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:17AM
  • My Highschool was called HELLgate. by DranoK (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:43PM
  • Ouch... by DranoK (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:28PM
  • scapegoat. by pinko (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:30AM
  • scapegoat. by pinko (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:58AM
  • Yes; but then you'll turn 35 ... by pinko (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:19PM
  • To hell with the public education system by pinko (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:32PM
  • scapegoat. (Score:3)

    by pinko (18911) on Monday April 26 1999, @11:12AM (#1915705)
    does anyone notice how no one in america is responsible for their actions anymore? instead it's the fault of the media, of the violent video games, of the dark role playing game, of the music and/or of the kids friends. a parent ignores all the warning signs that they have a troubled child. the child finally lashes out. whose fault is it? of course it can't be the parents! it has to be those violent video games, violent movies, or offensive music. bah! so since it was the video games fault etc... anyone who plays that game is a suspected killer. heck, them geeks in their trenchcoats are weird anyway. they gotta be up to something.

    america today is ripe with hypocrites. we have politicians who make big deals over other peoples affairs, when they've done the same themselves. we have people who under no circumstance should be allowed to raise kids raising them (or letting tv do so). after they've made a mess of their kids and the kids do something stupid, it's the media's fault. i'm so sick of people blaiming the media. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS. IT'S BAD PARENTING, NOT THE MEDIA THAT IS TURNING YOUR KIDS INTO KILLERS.

    I want to know how 2 sets of parents didn't notice their sons stockpiling weapons for a year. that's a dilly for you america.

    so now the counsellors and school officials want to pick up the slack. great. last group you want to do that. they deal with so many kids, they cannot possibly know them all. so now were dealing with the results of their knee-jerk reaction to this all. trying to find their own trenchcoat mafiosos.

    i know if any of those things in the article happened to me in school, my parents would have been at the school in 5 minutes to give the school official the third degree. they might have even brought a lawyer. that's what you're kids from the article need to do. the officials at their schools need a whack with a clue-by-four. just bring the lawyer and make it legal.
  • I have a kid...I'm really dreading this... by AJWM (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:34AM
  • I don't Like Mondays... - was a she by AJWM (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:03PM
  • Remember: The best revenge is living well. by AJWM (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @11:10AM
  • Re:Quoth a Jock. by webbsmith23 (Score:1) Monday May 03 1999, @03:36PM
  • Been there, done that by Krellis (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:52PM
  • No, it does not have to be! by SuperMux (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:22PM
  • Objectivism and AYN RAND by SuperMux (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:54PM
  • It can be done, it's starting to happen now. by Cattywampus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:29PM
  • Funny, the jocks know... by JohnnyCannuk (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:47AM
  • "The Scapegoat Generation" by Mike E. Males by RyanGWU82 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:36PM
  • Moderator, please? by RyanGWU82 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:08PM
  • Fraternities don't ALL suck... :) by RyanGWU82 (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @09:29PM
  • Perhaps the system is working as designed by i ronin (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:12PM
  • May 19th, Geek Drop out day by Ellis-D (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:17PM
  • We have nothing to fear? by aphrael (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:57AM
  • It comes down to the parents by Traxxas (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:25PM
  • RE: If you are a student reading this by Fish Man (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:00PM
  • RE: You're doing that pigeonholing thing too... by Fish Man (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:32AM
  • Heathers? (add Carrie to that...) by Chad Page (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:10PM
  • What about other countries, why here? by Hamshrew (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:39PM
  • geekgirls by zagmar (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:57PM
  • You're wrong! by zagmar (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:28PM
  • echo of our childhoods by Siege (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:12AM
  • scapegoat - parents by Dan B. (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:29PM
  • Fight back; correctly by Dan B. (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:04AM
  • Anyone Remeber the Breakfast Club by mbrannig (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:36AM
  • Damn straight... by ywwg (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:02PM
  • I have a kid... So I'm homeschooling. by ywwg (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:27PM
  • Taking away computers? by ywwg (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:48PM
  • It could be fixed... but don't hold your breath by davewill (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:07PM
  • A solution? by Bokonon (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:39PM
  • daydreams & nightmares by laura20 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:21PM
  • And you are the ruler of not getting the point by laura20 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:09PM
  • WHAT TO DO by Saac (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:53AM
  • Don't Join the Service!!! by Dead Mike (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:50PM
  • Bullshit. The Army was great. by Dead Mike (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:56PM
  • A few thoughts... by brad.hill (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:23AM
  • by NecronomiconII (22006) on Monday April 26 1999, @12:58PM (#1915747) Journal
    The following is my response to the Littleton massacre. A horrible event that could of been prevented. But the public system was too blind to see it coming:

    I am 22, and since the age of 4 I've been a Geek. All through grade school I was considered a thug because of the people I hung out with people who
    liked to think, rationalize things, and for that I was an outcast along with them. I developed a horrible temper, and was sent to the principal on
    a regular basis because I wouldn't take the insults. And this was just 4th and 5th grade.

    Then came middle school, I saw the anger I had, which was the same anger my father had, was killing him, and would kill me too if I didn't
    try and control it. It took months of work on my self to bring myself to a level where the insults and ridicule wouldn't trigger the rage against people who saw me as a freak because I like chemistry, math, computers, and Star Wars.

    But this if ofcourse didn't stop anything. In fact, it only made it worse because now I would "take it". In the 7th grade it got to the point
    where I had to switch schools. My father had divorced my mother and moved to the suburbs. I can't describe the nightmare of that year.
    In a world where you had to be a jock, or cheerleader in order to not be slammed as a nerd, it was straight out of the movie "Disturbing Behavior". I was supposed to go to the local highschool after that, but I moved back with my mother in the city, where there was at least
    more people who thought on my same level. I would of rather died then stayed in the suburb where I was. They threaten to take me back, I threatened
    to run away, never to return, and showed them the bus ticket to prove it.

    Ah yes. High school. The most patheticly egotistic and superficial institution I know of. My freshman year was just as bad as 8th grade, only at least here I had a group of fellow geeks to lean on. Nerd, Geek, Dork, you name it I was called it. That was until an honest accident in high-school.

    I was mixing two chemicals to study air pressure in a contained blast, for a science project, the teacher knew about it. I forgot that the vent fan wasn't on so it was basicly a big contained
    box. I blew up the chemical shield that the compound was contained in. In a full class of 40 kids, the room was cleared in 10 seconds. They refused to come back in with me in the room. I was given a suspension, and was told that if anyone wanted a bomb from me, I was to report them immediately.

    After this I was never ever bothered again. The people who once thought of me as a freak, thought of me as now a dangerous people who could snap
    at anytime. They left me alone, and my friends and I who knew that I wouldn't hurt anyone, laughed, and were also saddened that it took an accident and the fear of me the "Crazy bomb making psycho" to finally make the cruelty stop.

    My sophmore year I met my wife, online, and she supported my "crazyness" my irrational "curiosity" and now I'm a programmer and system administrator
    at the midwests largest private ISP.

    What the Littleton kids did was horrible. But not surprizing. My hearts go out to the families of the people who died. But we need to look at the
    social struture of our schools. They can be segregated and twisted environments, which lead to twisted individuals who no longer see the value in life. Individuals who won't control the rage, and have no support system to vent it.

    And then you have Littleton.

    To those in school who see this situation as their own, you have to take heart. With places like Slashdot, you have a vent. You have a culture that accepts you are on the net. Life gets much better
    after high-school. Find people who you share the
    same ideas with, and who you can be creative with.
    Don't get isolated. Find your kind. They ARE out there. The net makes it much easier for us to find eachother. And when the Jocks the people who find our curiosity dangerous and offensive are 30 years old with beer guts, watching re-runs of "All in the Family" wondering why the NFL hasn't called, you can laugh from your leather chair in your office knowing that for all your suffering, it paid off.



  • What about other countries, why here? by Baron Fundi (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:54PM
  • Scapegoating vs. Reason by aongus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:20PM
  • What about other countries, why here? by ywl (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:49PM
  • another student's perspective by jalen (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:18PM
  • Its a wonder it works.. by cybrthng (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:34AM
  • The Trenchcoat Mafia And Me by laktar (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:02PM
  • I don't think the murderers fit the profile here by laktar (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:10PM
  • Easier said than done by laktar (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:26PM
  • Welcome to Germany, 1933. by Rombuu (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:20PM
  • I've been very lucky by hammy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:23PM
  • Is this an "Only in America" Thing? by Onetus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:22PM
  • Lucky by redkanga (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:42AM
  • geekgirls by srl (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:39PM
  • geekgirls by srl (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:03PM
  • Just a thought by felix rayman (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:32PM
  • The torture of high school by litlnemo (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:56PM
  • School can indeed be hell if you're different by litlnemo (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @06:51PM
  • Er, you forget the Ecole Polytechnique by Rage Maxis (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:39AM
  • i hated school by p00ploop (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:42AM
  • What college? by p00ploop (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:17PM
  • Damn straight... by Uraki (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:26PM
  • Oppression of the Intellectuals by Colin Winters (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:02PM
  • entendre this! :-) by Le douanier (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:44AM
  • everything sucks by Mr. Tinkertrain (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:13PM
  • Damn straight... by Hast (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @04:35PM
  • Damn straight... by SuperKendall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:32PM
  • One problem with homeschooling by SuperKendall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:57PM
  • I have a kid... So I'm homeschooling. by SuperKendall (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:27PM
  • Jocks vs. Nerds, an Irish experience by funferal (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:42AM
  • I have a kid... So I'm homeschooling. by Sharkeys-Day (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:22PM
  • Strange Reversal by Merk (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @11:42AM
  • There's hope for /. "community" by RebornData (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:04PM
  • Correction by RebornData (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:13PM
  • Change our society by martymouse (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:25PM
  • What happens in Brasil. by bogado (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:29AM
  • Beautfication of firearms ... by kaputnik (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:38AM
  • I have a kid...I'm really dreading this... by J.J. (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:27AM
  • Damn straight... by Sleeve Coathead (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @08:14AM
  • Damn straight... by gutter (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:23PM
  • yup by rullskidor (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:18AM
  • echo of our childhoods by lightPhoenix (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:15AM
  • Solutions? (Not quite) by lightPhoenix (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:21PM
  • Sensitivity and Diversity by trichard (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:30AM
  • Alternatives by swdev (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:55PM
  • What if the situation was reversed? by ThreeTee (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:39PM
  • We all know he's right, now tell the media. by rjrjr (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:59PM
  • Keep your head up by alkali (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:26PM
  • I am a sophmore. Hear me roar by extrasolar (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:33PM
  • I am a sophmore. Hear me roar (as well) by extrasolar (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:44PM
  • You're right! by AlefNull (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:58PM
  • It is the real world by BeanThere (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:57PM
  • Working Class Hero by BeanThere (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:17PM
  • "What people say" isn't the problem by BeanThere (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:35PM
  • Solutions; a start? by BeanThere (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:47PM
  • The psychology of online environments by BeanThere (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:34PM
  • "What people say" isn't the problem by BeanThere (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @04:51PM
  • Life on the edge is perilous... by Radix999 (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:15AM
  • Forget 1984, try Catcher in the Rye!!! by smart2000 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:48AM
  • Reality Check (Score:5)

    by scotpurl (28825) on Monday April 26 1999, @10:50AM (#1915807)
    I was both jock and nerd in high school (14 years ago). Worst time of my life. I needed anti-depressants, 18 months of counseling, and strong support of my parents and my few friends to make it through without killing myself. Life has improved by magnitudes since then.

    If your parents abuse you, Child Protective or Social Services steps in. If your co-workers harass you at work, The Law protects you. If some stranger harasses you, there are restraining orders, and stalking laws, and such, to use as a remedy.

    But if your classmates treat you in a manner that is not acceptable in _any other facet of society_, it is called "part of the growing up process," or "all part of high school." I have never again seen the callous viciousness that permeated high school.

    I do not, in any way, condone or sympathize with any violent actions. I do not condone, nor understand racism (especially because I am of mixed race).

    But this national search for scapegoats must end. If the Internet and violent games cause behaviour like what has surfaced in Colorado, then how do we explain the actions of Ted Bundy and Ed Gein, whose killing sprees were far, far more sinister?
  • I agree:: One word: homeschooling by suraklin (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:06PM
  • All is not lost by MrNixon (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:29PM
  • I find all this incredible . . . by himi (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:13PM
  • When DO children comprehend? by himi (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:48PM
  • I CANT BELIEVE THIS CRAP by debrain (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:36PM
  • Conspiracy nut? (Score:3)

    by Jimhotep (29230) on Monday April 26 1999, @10:35AM (#1915813)
    Sounds like "they" want to arrest
    people "before" they act.

    About school uniforms.

    My son wears uniforms to school.
    His school has taken the lead in
    arrests. How many of you knew
    anybody that got arrested in the 7th
    and 8th grade? I didn't.
  • Conspiracy nut? by Grandpa_Spaz (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:02AM
  • Why do people fear us geeks? by MarchHare42 (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:08PM
  • private school by Uart (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:39PM
  • Why do people fear us geeks? - not alone by Uart (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:07PM
  • Why do people fear us geeks? - not alone by Uart (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:17PM
  • i never got picked on... by Uart (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @08:25PM
  • Taking away computers? by Lotek (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:42PM
  • This is not new... by CricketGod (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:10AM
  • "What people say" isn't the problem by CricketGod (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:06PM
  • Where were the Parents by starman97 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:04PM
  • Nerds against social rasicm by ADL (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:30PM
  • The Ensuing Hysteria by jallen (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:26PM
  • Games/Violence of the day. by jallen (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:00PM
  • It's a phase. And we emerge on top. by draggy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:54PM
  • Uhhh... no by Jeckle (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:28AM
  • The Wall by Shotgun (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:05AM
  • by DonkPunch (30957) on Monday April 26 1999, @10:50AM (#1915830) Homepage Journal
    I have one thing to say, and I can't say it loudly enough:

    The talents and values which are rewarded in high school have NOTHING to do with the real world.

    HIGH SCHOOL IS NOT THE REAL WORLD!

    I get up every morning to go to my over-paying job GLAD that I made it through without killing myself. Eveyone I know who is happy as an adult HATED high school.

    HIGH SCHOOL IS NOT THE REAL WORLD!

    If you're an outcast in high school, it's probably because you have values more meaningful than sneaking beer and attending pep rallies. I'm sorry it sucks, we "adults" aren't doing a very good job making it better.

    People used to tell me it gets better after you get out. They were wrong. It gets fscking GREAT after you get out.

    I can't imagine why adults are fascinated with high school. Every day I put between that place and myself is an improvement.

    HIGH SCHOOL IS NOT THE REAL WORLD! DON'T TAKE IT TOO SERIOUSLY!

    Hope this helps.
  • What about other countries, why here? by D3 (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @11:05AM
  • Fame by RiverRat (Score:1) Saturday May 08 1999, @07:42AM
  • To hell with the public education system by dickens (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:59AM
  • So how can we make a difference by dickens (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:14PM
  • Harsh memories by a9db0 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:24PM
  • You're right! by remande (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:04AM
  • I have a kid...I'm really dreading this... by remande (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:40PM
  • Stupid Kids by remande (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:40PM
  • This is the price of freedom! by remande (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:01PM
  • It comes down to the parents by remande (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:35AM
  • I CANT BELIEVE THIS CRAP by remande (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @08:52AM
  • Egalitarianism and school size by dublin (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:48PM
  • Rah! Rah! Rah! by Script Kiddie (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @11:03AM
  • Re:I have a kid...I'm really dreading this... by Script Kiddie (Score:1) Sunday May 02 1999, @10:27AM
  • Silly Europeans by Skorzeny (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:13PM
  • Silly Europeans by Skorzeny (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:40PM
  • Home Schooling by Skorzeny (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:52PM
  • Silly Europeans by Skorzeny (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:16PM
  • Silly Europeans by Skorzeny (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:59PM
  • Silly Europeans by Skorzeny (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:03PM
  • School has not changed by skipjack (Score:1) Sunday May 02 1999, @12:14AM
  • Vegetarians are gang members! by Izaak (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:34PM
  • .... by Shad99 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:27PM
  • What college by Shad99 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:42PM
  • geekgirls by Shad99 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:54PM
  • Wow by Shad99 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:14PM
  • Important things to remember about being diferent! by Shad99 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:00PM
  • "What people say" isn't the problem by Shad99 (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:09AM
  • We should all be taking a hard look at ourselves by Shad99 (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:59AM
  • Escape High School in Ohio by Shad99 (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:05AM
  • 10 years of perspective by ManicSparkle (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:34AM
  • I would have been in deep sh*t by Alan Mattern (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:38PM
  • by PovRayMan (31900) on Monday April 26 1999, @01:03PM (#1915863) Homepage
    Heya,

    I'm just going to tell you a quick story about my first day back in school after my April Vacation. I dress weird, you can say I'm a freak, or just weird. This [gis.net] is what I look like just about everyday at school. Because of this, I was assaulted. For many many years since about fifth grade, i've been the object of ridicule because i'm very defenseless. I'm now a junior in high school, everyday I get made fun of or joked about. I've got the reputation in my class for the mostly likely student to bring a gun to school and kill people. This is very untrue, I wish to harm no one. In fact i'm a real peacefull guy. I just don't get treated as a human being. Since i've been through all this ridicule i've learned to ignore it. (BTW in my picture, i'd like to explain that i have a very serious "ANTI-TREND" deal going on. I hate dressing like anyone else because $50+ for a pair of pants that has the name "Tommy" on my ass just isn't worth it.)

    Anyways here's what happened today. A fellow student noticed me standing in the doorway of an empty room, he began shouting at me saying stuff like "Hey! Here's that psycho kid!" and "He's in the trench coat mafia, watch out he has a gun." I know he was just messing around with me, but it was just getting ugly at that point. I told him to back off and he began to grow violent with me. It all went off when he first spat right in my face. I stood my ground and didn't flintch, I grew angry myself at that point. He then demanded that i appologize for being disrespectful to him. Just right there, that's BULLSHIT! One of the most disrespectfull thing one can do is spit in another mans face. Yet I still stood my ground.... After a few more mins of him taunting me, I was fed up and told him to "Leave me the hell alone." Being the punk he was, he quickly threw his hand to my throat and began choking me. I could tell he wasn't 100% serious about choking me to death because I was still able to breathe through my nose. After about 4 seconds of this I immediatly ripped his hand off my throat and once again told him to leave me the hell alone. I guess he grew tired of me and so he left. Before leaving the room he walked over to me and punched me in the side of my throat/neck area. I was very lucky he didn't get a HARD hit on me, or else I would have died right there from a colaspsed windpipe. He then walked out of the room. I was left in the room with saliva running down my face and finding it difficult to swallow anything.

    Now let me ask you this. At what point did I do anything wrong?

    BTW... this guy can be labeled "A jock."

    -----
    prm@alignment.net
  • turn it all around by Brennan (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:13PM
  • very weak. by haizi_23 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:45AM
  • Selfishness by frohike (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:49PM
  • RE:What about other countries, why here? by Vox (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:05PM
  • Just had to post on this one. by paitre (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:09PM
  • What I remember from HS by Lord Madhammer (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @07:55AM
  • Re:I think I'm going to be next by Lord Madhammer (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @08:13AM
  • Obsession with Hitler by Steeldrivin (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:39PM
  • Highschool is Hell, for everybody... by Mike Van Pelt (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:21PM
  • Knowing what's wrong by Saltheart (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @11:58AM
  • I am geek. Hear me... hear me.... AAAH-CHOO!!! by protogeek (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:02AM
  • One word: homeschooling by Theran (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:18PM
  • Three choices: Fit in, Leave, or change by The Optimist (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:07PM
  • people who want to be heard by junk (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @09:39AM
  • Go gettem by Copenhagen (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:04PM
  • i have not hated school by Damned (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:09PM
  • Temper the flames... by PapaZit (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:53PM
  • Speak the truth my brother - HS is nothing by Madhatter (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:32PM
  • 'Should geeks go to college?' by Madhatter (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:40PM
  • scapegoat. by Salamander (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:34AM
  • Wow by Salamander (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:22PM
  • grrr by proclus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:16PM
  • Been there, done that. by #._*_.# (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:46PM
  • I wanted to kill! by Russ Nelson (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:39PM
  • What we are NOT allowed to talk about by Russ Nelson (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:46PM
  • Home-school yourself! by Russ Nelson (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:56PM
  • One misconception with homeschooling by Russ Nelson (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:31PM
  • One word: homeschooling by Russ Nelson (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:57PM
  • I have a kid... So I'm homeschooling. by Russ Nelson (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:15PM
  • GEDs by An Ominous Cowbird (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @05:48PM
  • hell... by virid (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:50AM
  • It gets better folks - trust me! by BLKMGK (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:11PM
  • Check out Breakfast Club by BLKMGK (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:32PM
  • Fights in school by BLKMGK (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:49PM
  • Why flamed? by BLKMGK (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:38PM
  • I can top that :-) by BLKMGK (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:53PM
  • Ways to fight back! by Nichen (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:04PM
  • I CANT BELIEVE THIS CRAP by cebe (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:52PM
  • and another thing by cebe (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:07PM
  • insanity.. by cebe (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:12AM
  • Forget 1984, try Catcher in the Rye!!! by ClearBlueLou (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:36AM
  • I'm a geek girl too! by GEORGIANA (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:05PM
  • Some Free Advice. by H-Monk (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:17PM
  • Let's stop that kind of shit by Nassah the Protoss (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:42PM
  • How do you protect kids from other kids?? by CharlieG (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:21PM
  • high school or hell school by moving target (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:32PM
  • My Youth in the Seven Hells by Navaash Fenwylde (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @04:08AM
  • HANG ON by MztrBlack (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:14PM
  • USA: Nice place to visit but not to live in... by Quebec (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @08:52AM
  • Re:What about other countries, why here? by Quebec (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @09:22AM
  • High School Hell by revscat (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:27AM
  • Not a simple issue... by bskin (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:22AM
  • Just another comment by stressboy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:47PM
  • Exactly... kids are being persecuted unnecessarily by doja (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:55PM
  • This resonates loudly. by heech (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:37PM
  • what you are wrong about by heech (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:59PM
  • I CANT BELIEVE YOU by heech (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:11PM
  • insanity.. by heech (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:15PM
  • Heathers? by heech (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:18PM
  • I don't think the murderers fit the profile here by heech (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:36PM
  • You deserve a long painful beating by heech (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:51PM
  • I disagree too.. by heech (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:54PM
  • Follow up on this ... by heech (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:56PM
  • It's a matter of reality by heech (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @08:18AM
  • "A bunch of stuff that happened"? by heech (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @09:48AM
  • You are a loser. And a simp. by heech (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @10:05AM
  • The evidence is there ... by heech (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @10:12AM
  • seeing both sides of the fence... by epoh (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:34PM
  • School, compulsion, misanthropy ... by timothy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:19AM
  • Damn straight... by hemp (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:54AM
  • Woah there coyboy! by ttfkam (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:50PM
  • Woah there coyboy! by ttfkam (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:53PM
  • i hated school? (warning: long nerd rant) by slackergod (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:19PM
  • Older and maybe a little wiser by JJSway (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:39AM
  • Older and maybe a little wiser by JJSway (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:25PM
  • The profile fits just fine by jwilson (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:20PM
  • Existing laws were ignored by coyote-san (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:37PM
  • Stop thinking about pink elephants! by coyote-san (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:59PM
  • "Pump Up The Volume" by coyote-san (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:28PM
  • But when speech is criminalized.... by coyote-san (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:04PM
  • Get a clue! by coyote-san (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:07PM
  • I Hear The Tides Of Man by coyote-san (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:22PM
  • 2nd Amendment or not, we're keeping the guns by Kohath (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:38AM
  • Two words: home schooling by Kohath (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:48AM
  • Does anyone regret home schooling? by Kohath (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:51AM
  • See above. We're keeping the guns. by Kohath (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:32AM
  • Geek Drop out day - a better plan by Kohath (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:48AM
  • What about other countries, why here? by Kohath (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:19AM
  • Jon Katz is king of De Nile by F0XFIRE (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:03PM
  • Letters to schools? by F0XFIRE (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:12PM
  • What the hell... by F0XFIRE (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:33PM
  • Flame? Well, Okay. by F0XFIRE (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:40PM
  • Flame? Well, Okay. by F0XFIRE (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:20AM
  • The best days of your life by The Winter Queen (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:20PM
  • High School is Horrible by VonGuard (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:56PM
  • i can't think of anything to write in this space.. by sparkles (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:08PM
  • Damn straight... by ransom- (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:41AM
  • To hell with the public education system by MartinLuther (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:32PM
  • From the inside... by Symbiosis (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @06:56PM
  • I am a sophmore. Hear me roar (as well) by Symbiosis (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:25PM
  • Go gettem by porkchop_d_clown (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:38AM
  • Bloody merkins, was To hell with the public ... by porkchop_d_clown (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:56AM
  • Damn straight... by ggregg (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:39PM
  • Re:You're right! by BitPoet (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:29PM
  • Hatred Kills by Pfhor (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:35PM
  • Been and Being through Highschool by Pfhor (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:29PM
  • Been and Being through Highschool by Pfhor (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:30PM
  • Sorry bad link by Pfhor (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:39PM
  • Libertarian rule #1 by Camper Bob (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:41PM
  • I'm shocked... by BeezleBug (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:04AM
  • Organised Anarchy?? by Balthasar (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:10PM
  • Reality ... by ShadowDragon (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @09:03AM
  • Hellmouth indeed by parvati (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:34PM
  • a teacher's views by Masloki (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:15PM
  • Brave New World, perhaps? by spoon42 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:38AM
  • An outside perspective by RicRoc (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:37AM
  • The same old story by Murgatroyd (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:50PM
  • Same as it ever was... by ben_@home (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:57PM
  • hell... by Loopy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:22PM
  • hell... (oops) by Loopy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:27PM
  • Alternatives to public school by laander (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:30PM
  • The 10% error in human reproduction by Pingo (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:23AM
  • Yesterday, I was assaulted. by WonderWhy (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:56PM
  • People do understand by pbk105 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:48AM
  • I was a High School Geek! by hunterdw (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @12:34PM
  • Reality Check by Stormhound (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:00PM
  • The Academy by eshu (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:33PM
  • Important things to remember about being diferent! by CC_kid (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:18PM
  • KMFDM by santiago (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:34PM
  • KMFDM by TSaNNIK (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @03:31PM
  • I have a kid... So I'm homeschooling. by Solarian (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:29PM
  • Keep the Faith. by smac (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:50PM
  • Life in Hell by Wabbit (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:02PM
  • RE: Just another comment by Cpt. Fwiffo (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:50PM
  • Why do people fear us geeks? - not alone by Arithon (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:58PM
  • From a former geek by JHKINCAID (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:04PM
  • Guns and stuff by oberoc (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @09:57PM
  • Square Pegs in Round Holes by Siciliana (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:07PM
  • I just don't agree by PrayForMojo (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:20PM
  • I feel sorry for this S-O-Bs! by SquierStrat (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:30PM
  • Homeschooling--my experience by SquierStrat (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @10:49PM
  • What is the school officials Mindset...? by _Sprocket_ (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:18AM
  • I threatened to burn down the town on the way out by brianvan (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:23AM
  • Religion != (bad || fanaticism) by B.B.Wolf (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:38AM
  • I have a kid...I'm really dreading this... by B.B.Wolf (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:59AM
  • A lot of outcasts bring it on themselves by B.B.Wolf (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:19AM
  • Objectivism and AYN RAND by B.B.Wolf (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @07:08PM
  • Wish I was still in High School Too... by FreakingOut (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:28AM
  • i hated school by funaho (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:35AM
  • what -is- a geek? we're all -human- by funaho (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:09AM
  • Net "cleansing" by funaho (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:31AM
  • Amen! by DaveMan2 (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:56AM
  • Hate.. by Beastly (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:58AM
  • Damn straight...What crack are you smoking? by Beastly (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:47AM
  • Re:You're wrong! by reverie (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:33AM
  • Highschool is Hell, for everybody... by KludgeKML (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:18AM
  • One word: homeschooling by sput (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:34AM
  • They were the best and worst of times by Madalaine (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:02AM
  • Oh.. and the best thing... by Madalaine (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:04AM
  • What is wrong with you people? by Gray Eagle (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:48AM
  • I'm sorry, but this kind of thing does happen by Pharque (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:36AM
  • Who is really to blame. by darktech (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:48AM
  • Welcome to 1984... by Typo Negative (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @06:41AM
  • Guns and stuff by Steve B (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @09:45AM
  • My heart is breaking by K@ (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @10:04AM
  • Nothing Is Forever! by Picaska (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:08PM
  • Something is very wrong by webgrrl (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @10:48AM
  • Right on, Mr.FreakyBig! by webgrrl (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @11:17AM
  • Flame? Well, Okay. by webgrrl (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @11:50AM
  • Must EVERYONE say "now, I don't condone..." YES by webgrrl (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:37PM
  • Damn straight... by webgrrl (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:24PM
  • I have a kid... So I'm homeschooling. by webgrrl (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:58PM
  • Forget guns, we should regulate breeding by webgrrl (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:10PM
  • Up Against the Wall by Nelson Crowe (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @12:59PM
  • Public vs. Private High School by hellion (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @01:06PM
  • It's a matter of reality by swippy (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @09:19PM
  • If you are a student reading this by nin981 (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @05:14PM
  • Trenchcoat by Adam Da Man (Score:1) Thursday April 29 1999, @04:24PM
  • geekgirls (long) by crickett (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @12:14AM
  • Murderers aren't 3 eyed Freaks! They look normal! by TookyCat (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @01:12AM
  • Re:Sales Weenies aren't losers? by mom/of/boys (Score:1) Saturday May 08 1999, @10:18AM
  • Nerds Hated, Feared. Want to change that? by Mairead (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @10:49AM
  • Re:I think I'm going to be next by Mairead (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @11:12AM
  • A place to speak your mind . . . by Laygo (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @10:56AM
  • Re:A lot of outcasts bring it on themselves by mommyguilt (Score:1) Thursday April 29 1999, @12:43AM
  • Re:what -is- a geek? we're all -human- by artemisa (Score:1) Thursday April 29 1999, @06:22AM
  • Re:Does anyone regret home schooling? by Sayke (Score:1) Friday April 30 1999, @12:16PM
  • Re:geekgirls..oh where oh where can they be? by MissionControl (Score:1) Friday April 30 1999, @01:37PM
  • If you need to talk to a HS survivor... by timon (Score:1) Monday May 03 1999, @11:36AM
  • why should we be surprised? by teddy17 (Score:1) Monday May 03 1999, @11:38AM
  • Re:to all those kids: Light at the end of the tunn by PrincessGeek (Score:1) Monday May 03 1999, @07:52PM
  • Re:Something is very wrong by guruhuey (Score:1) Sunday May 09 1999, @08:55PM
  • Why I hated HS and other sins. by pagen (Score:1) Monday May 24 1999, @02:40PM
  • Conspiracy nut? by zantispam (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:19AM
  • Hmmm... by zantispam (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:30AM
  • entendre this! :-) by zantispam (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:14PM
  • I would have been in deep sh*t by zantispam (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:12PM
  • Er, you forget the Ecole Polytechnique by Tridus (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:39PM
  • What is wrong with you people? by flyboy (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @02:51AM
  • Damn straight... by Giza (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @05:53PM
  • High school sucks by bradburn (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:27PM
  • Hold on!!! These people _Deserve_ social hazing!!! by PickldPlur (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:37PM
  • excuse me, but what are you smoking by Amalthea (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:42AM
  • Hypocrites and Scapegoats by strange-angel (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:26PM
  • Of music and highschool (city, suburb, private) by emonk (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @04:36PM
  • Conspiracy nut? by Tise (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @11:41PM
  • what -is- a geek? we're all -human- by eternal (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @03:12AM
  • A thought by Mr. T (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @06:28PM
  • you people are kidding. by MrSparkle (Score:2) Monday April 26 1999, @10:58AM
  • Another comment on High School and society by kag (Score:1) Wednesday April 28 1999, @07:38PM
  • One word: homeschooling by dougn (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:35PM
  • Re:You're right! by phoenie (Score:1) Thursday April 29 1999, @10:16AM
  • but is anyone listening by reive (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:30PM
  • Fraternities don't ALL suck... :) by reive (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @10:19AM
  • Quick and Easy scapegoat by deggy (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @02:14PM
  • I think it gets a lot better in college by Aerolith (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @01:20PM
  • Blame by qplnm (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @08:50PM
  • I sort of buy that. by qplnm (Score:1) Tuesday April 27 1999, @09:03AM
  • High School by chrisw15 (Score:1) Monday April 26 1999, @07:03PM
  • 386 replies beneath your current threshold.
(1) | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12

The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up.

 



Forgot your password?
Working...