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Sory?
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @02:54PM
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How about the actual product? Ok, I didn't read the story, but I don't want stories from Netscape, I want better browsers!
(I guess somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed today)
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Well, if you had...
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @03:45PM
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...you would have seen that Netscape is hoping for a Beta release in spring and a final in summer.
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Gecko (Score:1)
by I-man on Thursday February 04, @02:55PM
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Lord Gecko is gonna be great. Web publishing will be sexy again...
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Standards compliance
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @04:40PM
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Just what web designers have wet dreams about: reasonably standards-compliant browsers, and finally a set of standards that are better than the proprietary extensions.
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That and.... (Score:1)
by I-man on Thursday February 04, @05:20PM
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Not to mention that I'll finally get my money's worth out of that CSS book...=)
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Gecko
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @03:00PM
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I haven't been following this very closely...
Will the rendering engine be completely seperable from the browser? If so could gecko be used to render for the 'minibrowsers' in Gnome and KDE?
That would be pretty cool. An efficient, portable, consistant, standard, renderer for many projects.
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Yep
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @03:04PM
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I was thinking the same thing. Then I was thinking, "mini-browser? I don't wan a mini-browser I want a full fledged browser. Hey wait a minute, why not integrate Mozilla into KDE and GNOME?" I think a browser integrated into the OS could offer users much more than a stand alone browser. I wonder if Microsoft has thought of this?
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Gecko component
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @03:47PM
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I haven't been following much more closely myself, but I have heard that the rendering engine will also be available as a component to be integrated into other programs. I think somebody's even run it as an ActiveX component inside a web page on IE!
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Gecko + Balsa == good html mail
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @03:48PM
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Now we might be able to use HTML mail in our favorite mail readers.
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Probably KWM (Score:1)
by VinceJH on Thursday February 04, @04:59PM
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I heard from the KDE mailing list they plan on just improving their own browser, which is part of KWM. It is already pretty good, and I heard it is as good as netscape in KDE 1.1 (by good I mean rendering, it beats netscape in speed, size, etc). It don't think it has java or javascript, but I guess for most those are just annoyances(sp?).
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Probably KWM (Score:1)
by Fandango (jehamby@lightside.com) on Thursday February 04, @07:20PM
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Actually, the KDE browser *does* have Javascript support. I don't know how good it is, nor have I tested it myself, but kdelibs comes with a library called libjscript.so, which is used by the browser, so draw your own conclusions...
-Jake
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fetch builds
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @03:03PM
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You can get recent builds from www.mozillaZine.org,
I am using it now. It is pretty impressive to resize
your window on /. and not have it take a minute
to redraw. Excellent...
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"The Geek Factor" (Score:1)
by lovelace (lovelace@NoSpAm.cs.unc.edu) on Thursday February 04, @03:07PM
(User Info) http://www.wayfarer.org/
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It's amazing just how much Microsoft executives don't get it...
These are people who work on Linux and other weird Unix variations.
Linux is more mainstream that most "Unix variations out there, and gaining fast on Windows.
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Enterprise ready (Score:1)
by K-Man on Thursday February 04, @03:26PM
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Two-faced FUDspeak. One face says they sell to "Joe User", the other claims that they're "Enterprise-ready". MS made its bucks by selling kludgy home software to office workers, who eventually forced their companies to hire tons of LAN support people so that people could get access to the legacy apps that did all the real work.
I'm not a mainframe fan, but let's face it, Linux is more enterprise-ready now than Windows ever has been or ever will be. Companies have spent billions trying to get DOS/Win to network, handle email, admin remotely, and a long, painful list of missed promises from MS was the only result. I remember once when I spent two weeks installing TCP/IP on a Windows machine. It took 20 minutes for an OS/2 machine, and 0 minutes for the Solaris boxes we had then.
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Enterprise ready
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @05:07PM
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So linux fans have finally stooped to ripping on the networking in Windows 3.1. Great.
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Enterprise ready
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @06:34PM
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Forgive me if my message was not clear, but in this case I was commenting on the consistency of Microsoft's marketing claims. Windows, by version 3.1, was already being more heavily marketed to corporations than linux is now, yet it lacked most of the features of a decent OS or network client, let alone server or peer.
Now MS poses as a holier-than-thou enterprise vendor, as if it had never marketed a less-than-satisfactory product at all. You can't be a lowball huckster and then turn around and expect people to take your word for it when you trash-talk somebody else. Track record counts.
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Enterprise ready
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @07:18PM
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(Same AC)
Sorry to flame you - you've got somewhat of a valid point. However, I don't think MS was really clueful enought in those days to do much 'enterprise' marketing. Windows 3.1 was basically a user revolution against the DOS&Novell luvin MIS depart. Plus MS gave it away with DOS.
What's worse are the shops that are still bleeding from the anus from their coversion to NT, Exchange, and SQL coming back for more with big Win2000 conversion plans. (Of course, they may just be trying to save what they've got.)
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"The Geek Factor"
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @03:28PM
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| I noticed that quote myself, and I was going to paste it here. You beat me to it. Arrogance, condenscension, and snide contempt from The Borg. Nothing else.
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"The Geek Factor"
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @04:06PM
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| They'd love it if you believed that all UNIX variations are "weird." As we all know, if there's no start button, it's weird. Don't let the FUD get you down.
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No Subject Given
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @03:09PM
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ohh yeah "fial" version is gonna look fine
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"Geek factor"
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @03:11PM
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I think Nichols is wrong on this. Mozilla is strongly discouraging additions to the core code, instead urging developers to add features with geek-appeal in as plug-ins. However, they do seem willing to make changes to core code to support hooks for these plug-ins.
The net result should be a browser that can be configured to support a wide range of users with different needs and levels of experience, unlike the Redmond one size fits all "We'll tell you where to go today!" approach to software...
Now if somebody could just explain to me how this "community responsibility" thing works (This line of thinking also seems to be the impetus behind Sun's Jini license...)
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NGLayout
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @03:15PM
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Troy writes in with this update:
On the layout front, Kipp's going to be
developing full-time under Linux, so this week
he's been setting machines up and getting his development environment going.
boo-ya, now maybe they can get some work done ;)
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Is it just me or.. (Score:1)
by pyrite (gold.dragon@krynn.tsr) on Thursday February 04, @03:20PM
(User Info) http://
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did the latter part of that article seem almost like FUD... not presented in the first person, but nonetheless, seeming to me to give only Micro$oft's perspective.
...able was I ere I saw elba... |
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Is it just me or..
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @04:06PM
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It's total FUD. Who would actually believe that someone who wants to modify the browser is going to suffer because they will have to support it themselves. Anyone who knows how to modify a web browser is _not_ going to need tech support!
Then there's the part about the "geek factor" where he says that Mozilla is going to be made for people who like text browsing. Does he not understand that Mozilla is going to have a better rendering engine than anything M$ will ever make? Does he think the developers are going to say, "Forget gecko! let's go text browse on our wierd OS's!" Either he's not thinking straight or it's some pretty desperate FUD.
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Some comments from the front lines. (Score:1)
by jerodd on Thursday February 04, @03:25PM
(User Info) http://iiinet.ml.org:8/xfsttos2
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Hi,
I'm someone who's worked on Mozilla in the past
(specifically, the port to OS/2), and I
currently use NGlayout, which is what we call
Netscape 5.0, for my browsing (as long as it
doesn't crash).
It's good stuff. The rendering engine has been
completely revamped; it no longer (for example)
takes 10 to 15 seconds to "think" about how to
draw a complex page (like /. commentpages).
It's also highly modular: the layout renderer
can go inside other things, and it might even
get implemented as a GTK widget.
Netscape itself will be an application that
uses the NGlayout subsystem; that means work can
be focused on either the layout engine or on the
browser application. In the past, the two were
one, and fixing problems or improving features
with one required working on the other.
It's also multiplatform. I'm using NGlayout on
OS/2 (AKA GeckOS/2 <grin>) and it works
just as well as under Linux. (For those of you
who are early adopters, head on over to
ftp.mozilla.org, get the MIRRORS file, and get
the tarballs from your favorite mirror site. It
is pre-alpha code, so don't complain when it
crashes.) There are ports to diverse platforms,
such as a AMozilla--Mozilla for the Amiga.
All in all, it's cool stuff, and I look forward
to when we can present a beautiful, fast, and
functional browser to the free software
community.
Cheers,
Joshua. (I hope /. doesn't mangle my password this time.)
--jon. Postel is dead. May we all mourn his, and our, loss. |
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Does NGLayout work now? (Score:1)
by timur (nospam_timur@tabi.org) on Thursday February 04, @04:02PM
(User Info) http://www.tabi.org
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I used the last public beta of GeckOS/2 - the damn thing couldn't even render my hotlist (and html file with a single, simple table and about 50 hotlinks)! Is the current build any better? I'd love to use something other than NS 4.04 for regular browsing.
--
Timur "too sexy for my code" Tabi, timur@tabi.org, http://www.tabi.org
... In Windows, no one can hear you scream |
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Yes, it works much better now (Score:1)
by brennanw (wrightc@dtcweb.com) on Thursday February 04, @04:16PM
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I'd hesitate to call it _absolutely_ reliable, but the latest version of GeckOS/2, while lacking the "pretty" front end, is a far more consistently useable product. It seems to hang a bit before loading a web page, but I've been having ISP problems lately so I can't definately say that it's a browser problem.
It still does strange debugging things -- not being a programmer, I don't think I can be any more specific than that. It opens up an OS/2 command prompt to display row after row of weird text stings.
Christopher B. Wright
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" -- Edward Young |
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OSS = Freeware, but does Freeware = OSS? (Score:1)
by cswiii on Thursday February 04, @03:32PM
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'In the year since its birth, mozilla.org has breathed new life into the development of open source software, also known as "freeware."'
Hmm...
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OSS != FREEWARE (Score:1)
by Master Switch on Thursday February 04, @03:58PM
(User Info) http://
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OSS is not freeware! OSS is open source software, that may or may not come with a price attached to its distribution. FreeWare is hand outs, OSS is not a hand out, and should not be confused as such. Remember that 50 to 70% of us choose to pay a nominal fee to whichever distributor we like, so that we may have a near complete Linux system. Freeware does not permit this sort of arrangement.
Sorry if I seem nit picky, but at the foundation of it, this is a very important distinction.
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OSS = Freeware, but does Freeware = OSS?
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @04:01PM
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Yeah, that one got me a bit too, but I figured I was being too picky. I don't think that Freeware = OSS, and I think that even the OSS = Freeware is an oversimplification; what about quality? Portability?
I've downloaded lots of freeware utils for W95, but rarely does it come with source so I can't modify it to do what I really want it to do.
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This is a NEWS.COM article! (Score:1)
by ChrisRijk (chris@ivision.co.uk) on Thursday February 04, @03:37PM
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This is really an article from news.com entitled Mozilla comes of age.
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how about...
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @03:46PM
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you learn to spell/edit things before putting them
up on your page? hmmmm?
goddamn tools.
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how about... (Score:1)
by Jordy (jordy@wserv.com) on Thursday February 04, @05:13PM
(User Info) http://jordy.wserv.com
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God damn is two words.
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Why? (Score:1)
by Georgester on Thursday February 04, @04:06PM
(User Info) http://llamas.org
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Why is Mozilla so terribly broken? From the status page it looks like they barely have a browser and they're really proud. Navigator 4 at least did stuff for short spurts between crashes.
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Because!
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @04:23PM
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Maybe because it's pre-alpha software that is incredibly complex, running on multiple platforms,
coordinated by hundreds of people spanning the globe. Completely driven by standards, not "how can I twist tags to make more money" microsoft standards, but REAL W3C standards, this browser flies.
Let's not complain.
-thomas winzig
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Because! (Score:1)
by kaisyain on Thursday February 04, @04:34PM
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Yeah, let's stay away from those "how can I twist tags to make more money" microsoft standards instead let's stick with REAL W3C standards like . Hey, wait a second....
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How insightful of you ...
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @04:32PM
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Thank you for your deep and insightful observation. I look forward to reading more of your unique and penetrating insights. Yes, clearly you are a master of the software arts. All hail.
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'freeware'? (Score:1)
by ccg (Chad dot Glendenin at Yale dot Edu) on Thursday February 04, @04:18PM
(User Info) http://promethium.org
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okay, what's the deal with the term 'freeware'? Maybe it's just me, but I think 'freeware' smacks of Windows proprietary crap as much as 'shareware' does; just like I connect 'Free Software' and 'Open Source' with truly open software, generally on Linux or BSD.
'Shareware' is the worst of the worst: like Free software, it can often lack the finishing polish that most people like (hey, some people WANT to install their precompiled binaries with some InstallShield Wizard and get a warm fuzzy when a colorful corporate logo pops up), and like commercial proprietary stuff, you don't get source and can't count on the author to fix bugs/security holes immediately nor can you do it yourself. On top of that, they expect you to send them money. 'Freeware' generally makes me think of Shareware that the author just doesn't charge money for; maybe he doesn't want the hassle of trying to be a real business. Probably because what he wrote is just some crap that he pumped out of Visual Basic on a weekend.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that all shareware is crap. I'm just saying a lot of it is crap (when last I checked anyway, since I stopped using Windows a while ago). For example, see how many Windows "Notepad" replacements you can find. Not editors with syntax highlighting or anything, just yet another pointless Windows text editor that someone expects you to pay for, or at least won't give you the source to.
I've also seen the term 'freeware' often sloppily applied by people who think 'Open Source' means public domain.
Does anyone else think 'freeware' has this connotation?
chad at glendenin dot org
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'freeware'?
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @04:40PM
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Hmm, I don't really agree. Some of the best software I've used both on the Mac and Windows has been Shareware.
I have less experience with Freeware, but certainly think poorly anything label Freeware until I've tried it. The Mac and Windows worlds obviously aren't as tuned into GPL isses, Free Software and Open Source nomenclature as the Linux folks are. Often Freeware is totally free software by another name. Sometimes it comes with source, sometimes it doesn't, but compiling your own binaries isn't typical on the Mac and PC so it's not as huge a deal.
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The "geek factor" and other pitfalls (Score:1)
by ccg (Chad dot Glendenin at Yale dot Edu) on Thursday February 04, @04:34PM
(User Info) http://promethium.org
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'He also warned against what might be thought of as the "geek factor."'
Excuse me!?
Geeks are good people.
'Open source development can give rise to problems with customer support and software compatibility, said Windows group product manager Mike Nichols.'
Funny, if you substitute the word 'Microsoft' for 'Open source development' in the above sentence, it flows quite well and makes more sense:
'[Microsoft] can give rise to problems with customer support and software compatibility, said Windows group product manager Mike Nichols.'
ccg
chad at glendenin dot org
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I'd like to to help out but... (Score:1)
by Otter (jsinger@genome.wi.mit.edu) on Thursday February 04, @04:48PM
(User Info) http://homepage.usr.com/j/jsinger/
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I'd like to offer some feedback or bug reports, but there don't seem to be any Mac builds ever happening. Or am I missing something?
A linuxPPC binary would be great also. As far as I can tell, the x86 Linux one is the only one being built regularly. Come to think of it, that's not surprising, is it?
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I'd like to to help out but...
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @05:12PM
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Mac builds do appear to happen, but only occasionally. Here, though, is one: ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/99-02-03/mozilla-macPPC.sea.bin (However, I have no idea if it runs or what it even looks like.) There is also ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/99-02-03/mozilla-mac-headers.sea.bin but I assume that these are relating to doing the build (I know that the Mac build is a different beast from the somewhat similar Win and Linux build systems).
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not Netscape, AOL (Score:1)
by mattc (mattc-at-pobox-dot-com) on Thursday February 04, @05:19PM
(User Info) http://pobox.com/~mattc
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You mean: America Online recently released a story about The Mozilla Project.
Let's not kid ourselves here, Netscape is gone.
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not AOL, CNET
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @05:52PM
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No, you mean "AOL/Netscape/whoever recently rereleased a story about The Mozilla Project formerly published by CNET."
Let's not kid ourselves here, AOL/Netscape doesn't write the content for Netcenter.
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"wierd UNIX variants.." (Score:1)
by patg (patg@aa.net) on Thursday February 04, @06:25PM
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One side of the microsoft mouth "Oh, it's a wierd, obscure UNIX variant"
The other side of the microsoft mouth "Oh, look, see, we have competition, oh Linux is great, it's competetition"
Microsoft wants to have the best of both worlds!
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uhhhh WTF?
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @08:03PM
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hey, this was originally published on CNET. duh.
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Mozilla for mac
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @08:55PM
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It's cool to see a company as big as Netscape making a staple product open source, even if it's slow going and self serving. A cool interview with Mike Pinkerton from netscape is at intothecore.8m.com
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Plain and simple (Score:1)
by Dissenter (dissenter@interaccess.com) on Thursday February 04, @09:52PM
(User Info) http://homepage.interaccess.com/~dissenter/
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I think we can all agree on this... I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS TO COME OUT!!!!!!!
Dissenter
"There is no knowledge that is not power." |
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Take Your Time Mozilla
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 04, @10:53PM
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I really don't want Mozilla out any sooner than it's ready. This is a really big experiment for the corporate world. If they release a great product it will speak wonders for the open-source model and will hopefully lead to other businesses following the same model. If they fail and release a buggy product too soon it will just add to the "open source isn't suitable for business apps" fire.
Take your time guys. Don't release it before your comfortable. From what I've heard it will be well worth the wait.
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Posted by CmdrTaco on Thursday February 04, @02:51PM
Mozilla news from Netscape
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