No HD-DVD Movies Until April

Jed from Pan and Scan writes "It's official: when the first HD-DVD players are released on March 28, there will be no movie titles available in the new high-def format for at least another three weeks, and far fewer than initially announced. Warner, the only studio that was planning on having HD-DVD movies to accompany the format's much ballyhooed debut, will now release just three initial HD-DVD titles -- and not until April 18."

Look at it this way...

If this fails, then Warner simply records this down as a lost. However, if it succeeds, these movie titles will be the most successful rentals!

Re:Look at it this way...

Well, yeah. I had no interest in watching $1M Baby before now, but at quadruple the resolution...wow! And checkout those blemishes on Tom Cruise's chin! I knew it!

Re:Look at it this way...

No matter how much you increase the resolution, it still won't make people appear on the screen in a movie they weren't in ;-)

Re:Marketing Idea?

Wait...let me get this straigh....so you're saying I should stop holding out for new releases on my Beta Max?

Movie Selection

The Last Samurai, Million Dollar Baby and Phantom of the Opera? Did they just have a monkey throw a dart at the board for those picks?

I can understand Million Dollar Baby and I'm glad The Last Samurai was picked, as that was a very underrated film. I'm still surprised they chose that instead of say, a blockbuster, or a major academy award winner. But Phantom of the Freakin' Opera?! WTF?

Re:Movie Selection

"Did they just have a monkey throw a dart at the board for those picks?"

It would have been someone in the marketing department who made these choices, so that's a yes.

Re:Movie Selection

Since the selling point of HD-DVD is the picture quality, you should go with special effects pictures and summer blockbusters where you can really show off the picture quality on a big TV. "The Matrix" is a perfect example- its the kind of movie where even if you'd seen it before, you'd want to watch it again just to soak up the visuals, and it would show off the capability of high definition. Launching your platform with dramas makes little sense.

Re:Movie Selection

But trust me, there are plenty of movies out there that are much, much worse.
Indeed they are called Revolutions and Reloaded.

Re:Movie Selection

Uhm, duh, before there can be a Star Wars release, George Lucas has to rewrite the script again.

Re:Movie Selection

How on eArth caN you Say tHat? NO, That can't be right. FrIckin' Retard. There! I Said iT!

If the Debut

...the format's much ballyhooed debut...

If it was during the full moon on April 13th, it wouldn't be ballyhoo but skullduggery.

Makes Sony look good

Hard to do, I know.

But... no releases for three weeks? That's three weeks of wasted advertising, shelf space, and cost to retailers, and while the first three movies are all great movies, how many people will pay over a hundred bucks for a new player and another thirty to watch a movie they probably own already in marginally better quality?

Re:Makes Sony look good

When I bought my DVD player I remember plugging it in and being shocked at the picture quality.

Not to mention no rewinding, no tapes getting eaten by the player, no degredation in quality over multiple viewings, defective tapes, tracking issues, zoom, repeat functions that are easy to use...

DVD had real advantages over tape. The only advantages that the new formats seem to have is clearer picture (if your TV supports it) and a familure disc format that everyone who'd buy it is already use to so there is no learning curve for the Joe Sixpacks out there.

Re:Makes Sony look good

How went out and bought a £250 DVD player and Mars Attacks when it first came out?

DVD and VCR are worlds apart. This is more akin to CD compared to one of the newer audio formats like Super-CD or DVD Audio. I don't know a single person who's upgraded their audio and I know a ton of music fans, more so than movie fans. There were great advantages to DVD, this simply isn't the case with Blu-Ray or DVD-HD. Not to even mention the percentage of people who can take true advantage of the formats playback. How many people own a HD TV to make a better viewing experience with? I'm sure this number is much smaller than the number of people who could take advantage of DVDs clearer picture when it first came out... A great margin infact.

I would buy one if I know who was going to win the format wars only so I don't needlessly buy new titles under an older format but without knowing what kind of player I would be able to buy in 3-5 years when my current one dies and not knowing if I'm going to be able to buy new releases for my new player if it loses the format wars in a couple of years I'm a bit stand-offish about buying the new players/media at all. DVD didn't have a competitor, that was acceptable. CDs never had a serious competitor in the early days.

I don't know what to buy and I'm sure Joe Sixpack is even more confussed. My guess? It's going to be at least two years until there is enough of a stir and a clear enough vision of the future until the public accepts this technology on the same level that they accept DVD today.

Blue Laser Burner

What I want is a blue laser DVD burner so I can get the HD I record off of my hard drive without having to use a whole spindle of DVD-R or RW. I don't think that will be affordable if even availabe this year. I'm not concerned with the upcoming rehash of DVD vs Beta at the video store.

I forsee

a lot of chickens. No one wants to buy the player until there are movies, and no one wants to make movies until people buy the player. Gentlemen, we have reached an impasse.

Or another alternative..

You can get HD content right now, with no added cost to yourself. I am sure there are a torrent of options that could be found with a bit of searching.

How do I upgrade my current DVDs?

Since I do not own my DVDs and have already paid a license fee for the content and intellectual property, what fee structure is available for those of us that just want to upgrade to the additional content? Obviously that is not worth re-licensing what we already have, right?

Re:How do I upgrade my current DVDs?

You are just adorable!!

Who cares?

Because people who got burned in VHS vs. Beta are going to sit this one out until a format "wins."

Re:Who cares?

Most of those people are too busy yelling at the neighborhood kids to get off the damn lawn. Damn whippersnappers.

Besides, when you're wearing trifocals, the resolution difference is less perceptible.

m-

unnecessary

am i the only one who sees the transition to HDDVD as being unnecessary? VHS was a standard for much longer and when the transition to DVD did come, there was a clear difference between the two both in quality and level of technology. HDDVD and BluRay seem to me like things which are being forced on us by cotent and hardware companies. I guess like CDs they will eventually be popular, but i dont see it happening any time soon.

Re:unnecessary

After a couple years, they'll start offering some entire movies only on high-def DVD. In other words, they'll force the transition on us.

That'll take a lot more than a couple of years for them to pull off. DVD adoption was extremely fast, because of the clear advantages that DVDs have over tape. And it still took about 8 years before you saw any movies that were not released in VHS as well as DVD.

Now you're looking at a situation where the market will say "heck, HD-DVD/Blu-ray is expensive, and I have to buy an expensive TV as well? Screw that!" Adoption of these new players will be significantly slower than DVD, simply because the advantages are not nearly as obvious as DVD's were over VHS. To top it off, a common standard hasn't even been created, putting people off even more!

A studio that tries in the next 10 years to release a movie exclusively to either HD format would be guaranteeing that movie's failure in rental and retail stores alike. There simply won't be enough people who will have the equipment to play it, and no single movie is enough of a "must see" to warrant the purchase of a new TV and disc player. If a distributor tried this before HD players are universal, they'd be sued by the production company for sabotaging post-theatrical sales.

Time for the age old classic "demo disc"

I always loved the fact that older consoles came with a game (Made playing the original Gameboy with someone rather easy since everyone had Tetris). Even in the newest Generations, I still think they should at least include a demo disc, since when Johnny with his part-time job gets his PS3, he might not be able to afford a game. I think it's not that different in this situation, maybe including a HD-DVD (Or even DVD depending on how many trailers it could hold and if it could support high-def stuff) of teasier trailers and such just so people can say "See? This is what I got... Looks great, eh? You want one, don't you?"

Can't we all just get along?

I am sick and tired of these format wars. Consumers suffer the brunt of the cycle of corporate fighting. Beta vs. VHS anyone?

Like Richard Pryor [imdb.com], I choose "None of the above!"

Hrm

Sounds like deliberate sabotage to me :p. Warner are releasing Blu-ray discs too?

My rules have not failed me yet

I did it with DVD and LaserDisc

Don't buy in to the new standard until it gets as common as the old one. (therefore I bought zero laserdiscs)

I am not a whore for quality, but I do own like 400 movies in VHS and DVD. Honestly I could care less about HD-DVD (even though my projector is capable of better than DVD quality).

It suprises me that marketing would have me think that the average consumer cares about practically inperceptable differences in picture and sound quality. I noticed the jump from VHS to DVD, but honestly I cannot even tell the difference between the picture quality (not size) at the movie theater and at my home theater with DVDs on an 8 foot projection, and lets face it, an 8 foot projection is pretty much the limit for a home theater.

I just don't think there will be much difference to the average consumer besides branding and price.

Re:My rules have not failed me yet

If you can't tell the difference between SDTV and HDTV, you are blind. The difference is far from "practically imperceptible". E.g., a friend of mine was testing his new 62" TV. He was watching the NCAA basketball tourney. The first thing I noticed was that the picture looked like crap. He said that not all the games are in HD and switched to an HD broadcast to show me the difference. The difference is not small. SD looks blurry compared to HD (there is a reason Best Buy and the like always show HD content on the demo TVs--no one would buy a 60" TV if they were showing SDTV.

April 1st to be exact

Sorry, there is no such thing as HD-DVD - APRIL FOOLS!

it's NOT official

Stop saying that, that's the most overused phraze EVAR, ORLY.

It's official Condi is running for prez.

The delay is not surprising, but Warner is STUPID!

I'm as big a movie fan and geek as anyone. I've got my HD-ready 55" widescreen TV that is aching to take advantage of 720p or 1080i in native resolution, not scaled-up DVD resolution. But frankly I am in no rush for either format to come out for several reasons, not the least of which is the DRM that they're trying to push.

Could it be that perhaps Warner is worried about falling into the same trap that Microsoft fell into by rushing the Xbox 360 to market? Any failings during the official release HD-DVD will be fodder for Sony. If Warner releases their movies and HD-DVD bombs, that's obviously their lost money. They're feeling the water of HD-DVD because, let's face it, Blu-Ray appears to have the most popularity from both a technical and exposure perspective. Sony's recent statement that they will no longer force analog down-converting also helps to bolster their high-def DVD position.

What I'm surprised at is that Warner is releasing movies that really should not be on the forefront of high-def showcasing. If you want a format to succeed, you support it with movies that not only show off what the format can do but also are what have a large fan base! Warner is not doing HD-DVD any service with the titles they're releasing. Million Dollar Baby? The Last Samurai? Phantom of the Opera? Oh my f**king God!!! What the HELL is Warner thinking?!

The people who would buy HD-DVD are those who are movie aficionados, technical geeks, or both. The Matrix should be first and foremost one of the top three HD-DVD releases if Warner really wants to help to push the HD-DVD format into people's homes! Come on! Warner owns New Line Cinema! Why for the love of Pete is the Lord of the Rings trilogy not one of the first releases!

Warner might be delaying to feel the HD-DVD water before taking a dive, but with movies like those three, that's water's going to be REALLY cold, and they're obviously not helping to warm it up! With the movies they're releasing, they're not going to convince anyone to spend the money for HD-DVD.

Blockbuster rentals?

It'll be pretty hard with those unlimited Blockbuster and Netflix rentals with only 3 titles!

Maybe even hollywood ..

.. realizes that these new formats are going to flop.
They won't save you if you're down.
They won't make bad movies good; they won't even make ok movies good.
They'll make money off enthusiasts that'll buy a movie they already own in 2-3 formats who just -have- to buy it again.
They won't get people to respect you for a devistatingly lackluster year of movie.
They won't wash the bad taste out of my mouth for putting unskipable anti-priating ads on the DVDs I PAID FOR.

Lack of movie content

The lack of (movie) content support with HD-DVD is going to be its downfall. If Warner would release classic movies that people actually want to see it might help. I think for HD-DVD to survive it needs to concentrate on the backup to writable media now, by releasing blank disks (at a lose if they have to) at an affordable price. That might intice people to purchase for their computers. But I don't see that happening..

Not to sound all geeky...

...(a lost battle around here, I suppose), but what about pr0n? That industry always seems to be out on the cutting edge.

I ask purely for information, of course. No, seriously.

Not True

There is already an HD-DVD available as a matter of fact. The adult film "Pirates" included an HD-DVD in it. Of all of the things to have that included in it I thought it odd. But it is in fact in there.

Wrong

Pirates included a WMV HD 720p format copy. On a regular DVD. It is a HD-DVD, not a HD-DVD. I'm trying to be clear about this.

OK, Pirates came with a High Definition movie on a regular old-fashioned DVD. (like grampa used to buy)

Not a HD-DVD, this new probably doomed format.

Way to Go...

...early adopters. Yet another lead balloon that the sheeple bought into.

A product looking for a market

Based on how few people I'm aware of who have spent the cash on a new HDTV set, I predict that HD-DVD will be a failure in the USA, at least for the next few years.

Similarly, when the HDTV broadcast deadline rears its ugly head, I think you'll see the cable companies offering digital to analog converters to allow their subscriberts (those who haven't upgraded their TV's) to continue getting their television, which means that their current DVD players will continue to meet their needs.

Don't get me wrong... I think HDTV's great, but there hasn't been a compelling reason to upgrade to it, and based on HDTV sales, at least here in Michigan, I think most people are in the same boat.

The economy's in the tank, jobs are scarce (particularly in my neck of the woods thanks for the ineptitude of GM, and their multiple plant closings), and people are understandably hesitent to spend a grand or more to replace e television that's still serving them well.

Add in the higher media costs, the lack of uses, the lack of pre-recorded content, and the lack of players for the media, and it all spells doom for the format. If it's still around in a few years when more people have upgraded to HDTV (assuming old TV's continue to die, and the economy begins a turnaround some day), maybe it'll have a chance at becoming a standard then. For now, it's a waste of money for most people.

Digital Broadcast Deadline... Not HDTV

The deadline is for broadcasts to be digital, not HD. HD is just a subset of digital broadcasts, there are also Standard Definition digital broadcasts.

No Movies?

The studio will now release just three initial HD-DVD titles on April 18: .... and the big-budget screen update of 'The Phantom of the Opera.'

So, this is equivalent to being stuck with WaveRace when the N64 first came out?

The way Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will enter market

We all know how the Movie Studios will make these new formats win in the marketplace. They will pick certain movies and ONLY release them in Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. No normal DVD release. Of course, this means they need a blockbuster movie that many people will WANT to own... (Good luck on that one studios) The studios will force the consumer to switch to by reducing and eventually eliminating normal DVD sales of movies. They did the same thing with VHS.

Optimistic scheduling disease ...

As the old saying goes, "People tend to overestimate what can be done in one year and to underestimate what can be done in ten years." I think that applies very nicely here. It took much longer for HDTV to take off than was originally believed. When I bought my first rear projection TV back in 1993 the salesman said "you should hold off and buy an HDTV-ready TV - everyone will be replacing their TVs by 1995 when HDTV broadcasting begins". I ignored his advice and, last year as I was replacing that old klunker I bought a 57" HDTV-ready widescreen. Personally, I believe HD-DVD will probably catch on, but it will take some time.

Surprised

I am shocked at the negeative acceptance this is getting. I for one can't wait for Blu-ray or HD-DVD to take off. My major reason for not owning an HDTV is lack of content, and this solves that problem. My cable provider dosn't do HDTV in my area yet, there are aparently too many trees for me to get satalite, and OTA is out of the question. I can't even receive standard def TV. Besides that the majority of TV I watch isn't available ATO. I suppose I could be the exception, but I can't believe there arn't a bunch of people in a simmilar situation as me.

Bad day at Bentonville for Warner

the company had asked Wal-Mart and other retailers to cancel online pre-orders for HD-DVD titles late last week,

A supplier cannot do that to Wal-Mart without serious suffering. Missing a delivery date is considered very serious by Wal-Mart. Warner execs will be summoned to Bentonville for a serious chewing out and will probably be forced to give discounts.

Wal-Mart does not suck up to the content industries. They not only sell online music at $0.88/song, undercutting Apple, they actually sign a few bands themselves and put their music on line and on CDs. Just to remind the music industry that it can be replaced.

Stop comparing HD to SACD and DVD-Audio

Since I'm pretty sure there are no human beings on the planet that can tell the difference between a normal CD and a SACD or DVD-Audio in a blind test (apart from the additional channels, I suppose) this is not the same thing. The comparison between VGA and HD are night and day to a lot of people, so saying that the transition to HD is going to fail like the hd audio attempts is very specious reasoning.

So now we know what HD-DVD stands for

HD = Highly Delayed

DVD = Da*n, Very Delayed

Why wasn't one of the first titles available that Penguins movie? Seems like that would have actually moved units. That and something cinematically georgous along the lines of "House of Flying Daggers" or "Hero".

Consumers don't care about image quality...

...that's why I and many others buy TV shows on iTunes. Why would our ilk bother with 1080i HD players?

If they want HD DVD to succeed....

they need the backing of the most influential video companies when it comes to pushing new technologies.

Porn companies.

Finally copyright protection

The movies studios finally found a way to protect thier copyright, by not releasing any media for a new format at all. In a brilliant move no one will ever see movies at a higher quality than DVD, because no movies will ever be released again. Idiots. DRM has been really slowing down and screwing up the adoption of these new technologies, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

Pirates

http://www.piratesxxx.com/ [piratesxxx.com]
I just ordered this movie (off cduniverse) and it ships with a DVD, a special features disc, and the movie in HD-DVD. If this movie doesn't hold you over for the three weeks after the player is released, nothing will.

What War?

Three years from now we'll be buying HD-DVD/BluRay/DVD/CD/SACD/DVD-A combo players for $79.95 out of a wire basket parked in the middle of the cold medicine aisle at RexAll Drugs. There's not going to be a winner or a loser, nor will there be a war or even a battle. Everything will just merge.

The only losers will be the fanboys. And they're already losers.

Was anyone around when DVD was launched?

I have been following the many stories on slashdot regarding HD-DVD/Blu-Ray with great interest. I am a huge film fan and am excited for the formats to shake out. The thing that totally surprises me is the posts from so many people. I'm not sure if you were all around or watching the launch of DVD but this current launch is looking exactly the same. Here are the posts I see repetedly:

The $500 - $1000 hardware is ridiculously over-priced. When DVD launched, I remember salivating over the $1000 DVD players in the crutchfield catalog. DVD launched in 1997 (as I remember) and the hardware was expensive at first. My first player that I bought in 1998 wa $400. It took a couple years for prices to drop into the mainstream $100 level. This is the same thing that happens with every ne technology.

The choice of launch titles is stupid. My first DVDs (bought off a little spinning rack which contained the whole store's inventory) were Unforgiven and Ronin. These seem very similar to the launch titles of today - oscar winner (Unforgiven/Million Dollar Baby) and mid-level action (Ronin/Last Samurai). My guess is that these are good 'testing the waters' titles. They aren't so old that the sales volume would be low regardless and they aren't your heavy hitters (the Matrix, LOTR) that you want to promote heavily once player penetration is high enough that the money spent on marketing will help sell a lot of units.

The discs are way too expensive! This will get lower over time as well. Back in 98 there were no bargin bin $9.99 titles. The movies I bought were all around $25. It looks like the HD titles will be in the same ballpark. If the adoption is slow, expect them to stay there (basicall there will be consumer and videophile price levels) and if adoption is fast, watch them drop (to reach the widest consumer base).

The quality is not worth the upgrade. I would say seeing is believing on this one. Thats what it took for DVDs nearly 10 years ago. Granted DVD also had the side benefits of not being a tape mechanism and all the problems with that format. This was a real benefit that the new HD formats won't be able to use as a feature.

My DVDs work just fine! Do they expect me to re-buy my collection? While I'm sure the studios would love it if you did, no one is going to force you to. My interest mainly lies in new movies (why buy Superman Returns when it comes out on DVD instead of HD?) and replacing my absolute favorite films (LOTR will look amazing). I even read somewhere that films made before the 1970's used film stock that does not have enough resolution to make use of HD. I don't know if this is true but it is certainly possible.

Too much DRM! Thats valid. There is a lot of DRM with this round. But when DVD came out there was no DeCSS yet. Everyone lived with the copy protection. Most people just want to pop the disc into the player and watch anyway. I don't like the direction that all the DRM is going either but to say that this is any different from DVD is not accurate.

What this all boils down to is the same kind of launch that everything gets. The XBOX 360 is expensive and had somewhat marginal launch titles. I'm sure the PS3 will be the same and whatever the big thing is after that.

The big question is how successful will the HD format be (once someone wins the format war). I expect it to be something akin to Laser Disc for the next 5 years. It would be imediately popular with film lovers but everyone else will wait until it gets cheaper and they buy HDTVs. This may take 5 or more years. Eventually I think everyone will just buy an HD capable player becaue the prices will be equivalent, and it will play all your old DVDs. It won't be the massive shake-up that DVD was but it will eventually flow into the next generation pretty smoothly. Everyone will gradually switch over when their TVs support it and the player prices come down. Everyone wil start to have a mixed DVD/HD collection and

definition is not the problem

Hollywood shows me that their executives are just looking at the wrong direction.

I'm completely satisfied with my tv resolution. What I want is intelligent movies with a consisten end ingriging plot . The last one that I bought was Fight Club a long time ago.

Can someone explain?

What's the big deal with HD anything? I seriously don't get it and have been hearing the hype from my friends for years now. Personally, I've NEVER been watching TV and saying "Gee, I wish this picture was crisper, then my television experience would be so much better!" VHS was plenty good quality for me, though I appreciate the convenience in DVD's other features. I think this format stuff is just a silly marketing ploy. I watch movies/tv for the content not the quality of the image. Maybe I'm one of the few.

And what about...

...those of us who find HD-anything unwatchable, due to a visual impairment?

I may have normal vision, but my wife does not. She's legally blind, in fact. Most of her center vision is gone, and she depends wholly on what's left in her peripherals. Also, her color sense works differently from someone with normal sight. Yellows appear green to her, as one example, under certain lighting conditions.

We've looked at HDTV's vs. regular sets, and neither one of us were impressed. The HD picture, while noticeably sharper to my sight, had very visible (and annoying) artifacts around the edges of objects.

As for my wife, the increased contrast and sharpness of the image was actually painful for her to look at. In fact, it started a migraine that lasted the rest of that day.

Who is to say that HD-DVD or BluRay will be any improvement?

Now, I will grant that there could have been other reasons why this particular side-by-side demo we looked at didn't work out. The HD set might have been misadjusted, or of questionable quality, or the source material used for the demo may have been compromised in some way.

However, the end result is the same. Unless BOTH of us can see a clear and immediate benefit to "upgrading," one that CLEARLY justifies the increased cost, we're not touching ANY of the HD technology with a 3.048 meter pole (or, for that matter, a 1.2 meter Italian).

We both grew up with regular TV, and VHS, and Laserdiscs (which I still have a whole shelf of), and regular DVDs. Though we're not watching VHS any more, except for the occasional home-movie type of thing, all of the above work perfectly well for us. We're HAPPY with what we have. Better yet, DirecTV has assured us that their receivers will continue to work with analog sets just fine.

The DRM (I think of it as Digital RESTRICTIONS management) is only one more reason for us not to be "early adopters." Once the new systems are "De-CSS'd" to the point where my Fair Use rights are not compromised, then (and ONLY then) will we consider the new format(s), whatever they may turn out to be, as an option.

If the day comes when the studios stop issuing movies on regular DVD, well, we may just stop buying movies if no other viable alternative presents itself.

Here's my challenge to the industry. Come up with something that doesn't give sight-impaired folk a headache, that doesn't require a second mortgage to buy, and that won't try to tell its owner what they can or cannot make backup copies of.

Until then, well... taking a lengthy stroll off a limited-length floating platform comes to mind.

Netflix Support?

Has anybody seen any statement from Netflix on if they will be distributing HD format discs when they come out?

Re:Nice selections

Whoah!

I am an FBI agent!

Re:Nice selections - Don't count on it yet.

You need to read the article more closely.

The studio will now release just three initial HD-DVD titles on April 18: Clint Eastwood's Best Pic Oscar winner 'Million Dollar Baby,' the Tom Cruise starrer 'The Last Samurai' and the big-budget screen update of 'The Phantom of the Opera.' Each title will have a retail list price of $28.98.

The three that you mention are supposed to be available "in the coming weeks" but "no street date has been set". Don't count on anything coming out until you get the official press release. And don't be surprised that those movies are not released for a long time if HD-DVD acceptance is lukewarm or colder.

Re:Nice selections

Extra features? Not likely considering that, in most cases, the feature presentation itself barely fits on the disc. I see extra features gettign the shaft as far as HD-DVD is concerned unless 'every' release is 2-disc.