Google Agrees to Censor Results in China

neutralino writes "The Associated Press is reporting that Google has agreed to censor results in China. According to the article, 'Google officials characterized the censorship concessions in China as an excruciating decision for a company that adopted "don't be evil" as a motto. But management believes it's a worthwhile sacrifice.'"

Don't^H^H^H^H^H

be evil.

Not as evil as the summery leads you to believe.

As the article goes on to state, when an item is censored Google will tell you it has censored the searched item to comply with local laws. This sort of censorship where you know something is being kept from you is much less scary than the type where you simply don't know what is being kept from you. Simply providing their search engine to China in censored form, and admitting to users they are being censored isn't evil. What is evil is the Chinese governments restrictions on free speech, but Google can only choose to provide a censored search engine or not provide one at all.

Re:Not as evil as the summery leads you to believe

I think the moral high ground isn't to get into bed with a facist country for the sake of money. But I can see why Google fans would want to spin that in a positive way. Yes, Google could have done worse. But they're still aiding and abetting the Chinese government.

Re:Not as evil as the summery leads you to believe

Google is aiding everyone by trying to provide the information.. the problem is Google doesn't have guns.. The Government does.

Re:Not as evil as the summery leads you to believe

Google has financial guns, which in many ways can be far more powerful than physical ones.

That said, I don't blame them for doing it. They would be missing out on one of the biggest potential markets in existence, and who knows - maybe the "your results are being censored" text will wake some people up to the truth when they would have just remained clueless using another search engine.

Re:Not as evil as the summery leads you to believe

That there's more to LIFE than money.

There's also the award-winning photography.

Re:Not as evil as the summery leads you to believe

Yes, but there is a cutoff. $2 billion dollars doesn't buy you any more time than $200k, it just buys you a lot more caviar.

Re:Not as evil as the summery leads you to believe

Google doesn't have guns.. The Government does.

Google has a far stronger weapon than any gun... the ability to make easy the free exchange of ideas and knowledge.

Re:Not as evil as the summery leads you to believe

What if this were Microsoft?

Would you be so willing to understand?

The Notice Is There

Perhaps you can't read the notice, but is there, in Chinese, at the bottom of the search results on Google.com.cn:

"Ju dangdi falü fagui he zhengce, bufen sousuo jieguo weiyu xianshi."
"According to local laws, regulations and policies, part of the search results is not being shown."

Backwards

Personally, I think the Chinese have this search engine censorship backwards. If I were in charge of the country, I think I'd WANT a massive easy to use search engine that spends its days and nights toiling away finding links to dissident web sites. After all, it would make my job of finding and... uh... reeducating those unhappy people MUCH easier.

Bold Statement

What people need to realize is that Google doesn't really have a choice in the matter. I don't believe this violates the "Don't be evil" motto, as Google is simply trying to follow Chinese law. I don't think Google should be scrutinized for this, considering every other company (Microsoft, Yahoo, etc) has been forced to do the same thing. What people should be scrutinizing is Chinese law, not companies that follow said laws. Of course, the entire political situation in China is horrible and always has been.

Why should Google help the CCP?

China needs Google more than the other way around. Google should tell the Communists to jump off a pier, and let them block Google. They should absolutely not do anything to help the Chinese authorities do what they do best, which is persecute religious minorities and throw people in jail for perfectly capricious reasons.

I have no problem with selling China cars or airplanes or other stuff like that. But to actively collaborate with the regime in stifling dissent is just too much. After this, I don't think anyone should have any faith at all in their claim that they will stick up to the US Government's fishing expedition.

Google is dead. Someone new will take their place. Someone who doesn't kowtow to dictators.

Re:Why should Google help the CCP?

Meh, at this point, its not clear who has correctly defined communism.

The academic community, who coined it....

Or the political leaders who use it to describe themselves on a regular basis....

The definitions are radically different. *shrug*

Re:Why should Google help the CCP?

For starters, China isn't a communist state.

It's still "Communist" as in Communist Party controlled. How "communist" the "Communists" are is debateable.

Re:Why should Google help the CCP?

Yes, as it always has been. :)

Re:Why should Google help the CCP?

China does not need google, there are plenty of chinese search engines that WILL comply with the chinese government.

Also, they have stated that they will tell users when search results have been removed in order to comply with a chinese government request so the people searching can clearly see that its the fault of the government that their search results arent as good as they could be, not google.

Re:Bold Statement

Poland Spring sells clean, clear bottled water. What if Chinese law said that bottled water manufacturers had to put a little lead in the water to dumb down the population, so they won't understand how badly they're being treated by the gov't. Should Poland Spring comply just because that's Chinese law?

Well that's exactly what Google's doing. Google normally offers uncensored, clean information from which people can learn. But the Chinese government says that Google must poison the learning through censorship, in order to dumb down their citizens so they won't know how badly they're being treated by the gov't.

I am ashamed of Google and any other American entity that encourages China's oppressive style of government.

Re:Bold Statement

> Just don't come complaining when you realize that you go other places in the world, even other Europeon countries, and don't enjoy the same freedoms.

Yep, the whole world sucks except for America!

Or you could be moderately intelligent and undersand the point he's making. EVERY civilized country reduces freedom, rather than simply being unable to enforce granting all, for the sake of whatever the fuck you define 'civility'. If you like what civility is in your country, stay there. If you don't, vote or leave. But don't, for a moment, think that any country allows the ultimate ideal in freedoms. Millions upon millions of people on this planet prefer the style of freedoms and restrictions granted by their government over Americas, and its retarded to actually place one's personal beliefs as the measure of what the right balance is. Its reverse phychology dude .. no matter how old you are, anybody who suggests that free will exists and that you're incapable of regonizing how to take maximum advantage of it will piss you off. Don't fall for it, it just makes you look juvinile.

Re:Bold Statement

For example, here in the US, in ANY court case, the burden of proof is on the prosecution. In many europeon countries, this varies with the type of court case. Libel cases, for instance, have the burden of proof placed on the defendent in Brittan.

You keep telling yourself that [smh.com.au]. Here's what Reverend Desmond Tutu had to say:

"We are appalled that revered conventions are being blatantly flouted such as the dictum that someone is presumed innocent until proven guilty and that everyone is entitled to legal defence of his choice and that habeas corpus obtains. I support your efforts to ensure justice is done for your loved ones and that they will be given access to the families. God bless you." -- The Most Reverend Desmond Tutu -- http://www.guantanamohrc.org/ [guantanamohrc.org]

The US spin machine even has a nifty term for what they're doing: Internment Without Trial. Wtf? They just slapped a happy-happy name on "guilty until proven innocent" and you guys bought it. Loyal sheep are already parroting the US government's implication that innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to certain people.

The hand-wringing about innocent until proven guilty is all very well but the assumption must inevitably be applied a little differently to someone accused making off with a bun out of a bakers, than people held captive in the act of fighting against our forces and our allies. Given the circumstances in which they were taken captive, I am personally far more concerned about the threat to our security these people represent, than the conduct of those that detained them. Kelly Tait, Edinburgh -- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4204997.s tm [bbc.co.uk]

Ok, admittedly she's British. Do you think most Americans would say any different? What worries me most is that it seems US citizens are less informed of what goes on in Guantanamo than people from the UK and Europe and Australia. Aren't you frightened by that?

As I said, remove the beam from thine own eye. You guys are acting pretty scary these days and it's even scarier when you don't realise it. The fact that I'm already receiving negative moderation for even daring to say that the US is less than perfect should be all the evidence you need that something is very wrong in the US right now.

Very, very, very wrong.

Re:Bold Statement

I invite you to perform some tai chi excercizes in the Washington Mall, then in Tianamen Square, and after the broken bones heal you can lecture us all on the moral equivalence of the American and Chinese governments. By the way, if you had posted a message equally critical of China as your message is of America from China, you would be guilty of crimes against the state (and your Internet connection would probably have terminated after you sent an HTTP request containing the characters for oppression).

Re:Bold Statement

I think you're getting confused between Fa Long Gong and Tai Chi(Ji). Fa Long Gong is the illegal "cult" and Tai Chi is a martial art that is practiced by Chinese all over the country. Practicing Fa Long Gong will certainly get you noticed quickly but practicing Tai Chi is perfectly normal anywhere in China, including in Tian An Men square.

Re:Bold Statement

Giggle. Right on, brother. We only approve of America's oppressive style of government!

Try saying something like that in China about the Chinese government... then let us know how much giggling you do when you're thrown in jail for upwards to a decade (as its commonly the case).

You are missing one key thing.

As the article goes on to state, when an item is censored Google will tell you it has censored the searched item to comply with local laws. This sort of censorship where you know something is being kept from you is much less scary than the type where you simply don't know what is being kept from you.

To use your own analogy this would be like Poland Spring putting lead in their water, and then putting a bit notice on every bottle that said "To comply with Chinese law we have put lead in this water."

If you know the water is posion you can choose to drink elsewhere if you wish.

Re:You are missing one key thing.

As the article goes on to state, when an item is censored Google will tell you it has censored the searched item to comply with local laws. This sort of censorship where you know something is being kept from you is much less scary than the type where you simply don't know what is being kept from you.

And how long until the Chinese government will require Google to remove the 'censored to comply with local laws' notification? it's not like that would be a difficult step to take once they see that Google would prefer to play by their rules rather than leave.

Google just placed itself in the perfect position between the Chinese carrot and stick. Let's see how it plays out (unless that info will get censored too) At least, they have MS and Y! to keep them company.

Re:Bold Statement

Yes, they do have a choice. Rather than assist the PRC in violating human rights, they could decline to do business in China. There's all the talk here about how they faced down Bellsouth--don't you think they maybe have a little market power in China, too? Well, not now--they caved to the almighty yuan. I'm sure the dead Christians and the Tianmen Square students crushed under the treads of the people's tanks are thankful censored Google is available thanks to the sweetheart deal with the Chinese Communists.

Re:Bold Statement

what dead christians? what crushed students? i searched www.google.cn and couldn't find any of this?

Tienanmen Square? What else is new?

Tienanmen square is the tip of the iceberg. I have conversations with people in China all the time via Skype, and they don't even know that Mao killed more Chinese than Tojo! They know that their parents lost a sibling during the cultural revolution, but they have no idea that Mao's body count is well into the tens of millions. A few of them have been stunned when I sent them the wikipedia pages on the Cutural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward.

Communism is on the way to the ash heap of history, and when companies like Google, Microsoft, and Cisco help the thugs, they're just helping in delaying the liberation of China. I hope that the Chinese people make their displeasure known when they become a free country.

-jcr

Tiananmen+Square

Check this out:

http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=tiananmen+S quare++&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&meta= [google.cn]

Re:Tiananmen+Square

For those who can't read Chinese, there is a line of text at the bottom of the screen saying "In compliance with local laws and policies, some search results are not being shown."

You don't tell you how many results have been removed or where those results would fit in the "normal" search results. Personally I think some message that appears for every deleted search result would be less evil than the very subtle, almost un-noticable, message that they have now.

Compare

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Tiananmen+Squ are+&btnG=Google+Search [google.com]

http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=tiananmen+S quare++&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&meta= [google.cn]

The bulk of the English results refer to the massacre. Not oe of google.cn's hits refers to this. Nor is there a reference to the vast omission.

And they say this is not censorship.

Re:Tiananmen+Square

True, there is some censorship going on, however it doesn't seem that either Google's software or the Great Firewall is completely effective. Googling for "tiananmen square massacre" results in a lot of hits, whereas you would think it would return nothing:
http://www.google.cn/search?q=tiananmen+Square++ma ssacre&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&hl=zh-CN [google.cn]