Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

BeOS Ready for a Comeback as Zeta OS

Posted by timothy on Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:12 AM
from the operating-systems-shouldn't-matter dept.
Anil Kandangath writes "BeOS, the operating system that could have been the foundation for Mac OS X, but almost died, instead has returned as Zeta OS -- which is supposed to be fast, stable, media centric and boot within 15 seconds. Zeta is being released by yellowTAB of Germany and has applications such as an office suite and the Firefox browser bundled with it. Most BeOS applications will also run as-is. Screenshots are available." According to the NewsForge story linked there, the release could be as soon as next month.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
BeOS Ready for a Comeback as Zeta OS | Log In/Create an Account | Top | 625 comments (Spill at 50!) | Index Only | Search Discussion
Display Options Threshold:
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • Well, yeah... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Tarcastil (832141) on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:13AM (#12124444)
    Windows boots in 15 seconds, too, on a supercomputer.
  • For those who know... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Amiga Lover (708890) on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:15AM (#12124449)
    Which would have been technically better as Apple's new OS - the nextstep based OSX, or a BeOS based OS?
    • Re:For those who know... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:23AM (#12124502)
      BeOS was pervasively multithreaded but at the same time had incredibly expensive threads that had to be reused as much as possible in order to obtain decent performance from them. The multithreading also made creating correct software more difficult, as well as hindering debugging.

      On the other hand, Mach is pretty slow, and stuffing the BSD layer into the kernel space and building everything off of it made a Mach base superfluous. Objective C is a mediocre language with expensive message dispatch, but OpenStep was a powerful platform that proved itself to be easy to develop for.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:For those who know... by 2nd Post! (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:29AM
    • NeXT was proven.. by romanval (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:54AM
    • Re:For those who know... by iCEBaLM (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:24AM
    • Re:For those who know... by mrchaotica (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:42AM
    • Re:For those who know... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Queer Boy (451309) * <dragon.76@NospAm.mac.com> on Sunday April 03 2005, @04:10AM (#12125354)
      Which would have been technically better as Apple's new OS

      In my opinion (I've used Macs since 97 and used BeOS since the first release) I would rather have seen BeOS with the Aqua makeover. BeOS was VERY close to being like a UNIX, it tried to copy all the good stuff but left out the bad stuff.

      I don't know how well it worked in a technical sense but it let you load and unload drivers and extensions just by moving them in and out of a folder (never reboot!). It also let you load extensions and drivers for the machine, or just the user (it was never multiuser but was designed with this in mind for the future).

      On a 240 MHz 603e I was able to rotate a 3D cube playing QuickTime movies on all 6 sides (compressed with the "video" setting). Without GPU support. BeOS was like the new Amiga, it was amazing and would have been something truly phenomenal had it come out AFTER the DOJ trial against MS.

      [ Parent ]
    • Re: For those who know by AvantLegion (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @04:32AM
    • Re:For those who know... by jonadab (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @05:16AM
    • BeOS isn't multiuser by CdBee (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @06:41AM
    • Re:For those who know... by squiggleslash (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @11:41AM
    • Re:For those who know... by Lord Kano (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:05PM
    • Re:For those who know... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by rice_burners_suck (243660) on Sunday April 03 2005, @03:24PM (#12128093)
      (Last Journal: Sunday November 04, @03:38AM)
      I was really angry when Apple didn't want to use BeOS as the foundation for OSX. But BeOS by itself wasn't enough... They made mostly the right choice, except that they should have bought out Be for the code and used it in the process of making OSX, because though BeOS wasn't enough, neither was BSD. By doing that, the first version of OSX could have been where Tiger will be when it comes out, or maybe even further ahead. (Except that the user interface for much of the stuff in Tiger would still have taken a long time to create.)

      Now I must say, for the record, that I am using OSX for most of my purposes now. Only the engineering stuff from work, like Autocad, Pro/E, and Mastercam, doesn't run on this thing. My boss told me that when versions of those programs become available for the Mac, the entire Windows-based network is going in the trash. This is cool, because seven years ago, when I told him to dump NT and use FreeBSD as his server system, he didn't believe that some alternative to Windows that he never heard of could get the job done at all, let alone do it better. Boy, did I prove him wrong after a while, but I had to make him a bet that if FreeBSD didn't do the job, I'd take him and his family out to dinner at his favorite restaurant, which is a very, very expensive restaurant!

      Back to OSX and BeOS, though... There were a number of things about BeOS that I loved, including:

      • Live filesystem. In other words, the operating system knows when it puts a file somewhere, right? So why poll for that information? BeOS has hooks that allow your software to install a "monitor" on a file or directory. When something happens to that object in the filesystem, your application receives an asynchronous message, and then you can act on it. Why is this useful? Someone else in this discussion mentioned that you could load a device driver just by dropping it in the appropriate directory, without rebooting. There are other reasons. Samba, for example, has an option that monitors the contents of a directory for changes, and acts on them. You have to set up how often to monitor. Samba has to maintain an internal list. This takes up a bunch of computer time. In BeOS, a simple line of code an a handler for the event would do the trick, and waste less computer time. This was cool. And it worked on any filesystem supported by BeOS.
      • Attributes. This existed in BeOS long before any other OS had something like it. These things are showing up in OSX and Linux only recently. Attributes are programmable metadata that you can attach to a file. This turned the filesystem into a sort of database. The operating system had certain information that it would associate with files, such as their MIME type. This information was used to open the proper application for a file, instead of going by the file's extension. This could allow you to completely do away with extensions. Most of the time, I kept extensions on files anyway, because it was convenient for transferring them to and from other computers. But it was not necessary. You could also run queries on information, and save the query. The query could be accessed just like a directory, and it was "live" due to the previous feature I mentioned, which means that as things moved around the disk, or were created or deleted, that change would show up immediately in the query window.
      • The OS was just so damn fast.
      • It was built the way the Hurd should have been built, if it were ever built. In other words, there was the kernel, and then there were a bunch of "servers", like the input server, the network server, the window server, etc. Then, there were the "kits", or the APIs, that each server had. This meant the OS was so modular that you could conceivably remove any component and replace it with a better one, if the OS had ever gained widespread adoption.
      Unfortunately, BeOS didn't fulfill all needs quite so well. Let's see a few things BSD has that BeOS doesn't:
      • Multiuser. The BeOS filesystem and other OS components were written to mak
      [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Returned to life.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by ShaniaTwain (197446) on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:15AM (#12124451)
    (http://slashdot.org/)
    Shouldn't that be ZomBe OS?
  • right... (Score:5, Funny)

    by nuggetman (242645) on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:18AM (#12124472)
    (http://www.deadkitty.org/)
    I had a friend about a month ago who told me he was learning C.

    Why was he learning C? Because BeOS was coming back, and they were gonna need people to port applications. And porting was easier if you knew C. And BeOS was gonna be the next big thing so they needed to have lots of apps ported to it.
    • Re:right... by Anonymous Coward (Score:3) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:02AM
    • Re:right... by ciole (Score:3) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:43AM
    • Re:right... by MyDixieWrecked (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @11:51AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • If you want to take a look at BeOS... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Storlek (860226) on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:19AM (#12124473)
    You can get BeOS 5 Max [bebits.com] free. It's moderately recent, and it's a nice way to take a look at what BeOS is all about if you aren't in the loop. It even boots as a Live CD if you're so inclined, although you can't do much besides click on stuff if you boot it that way.
  • Yeah, but... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by demondawn (840015) on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:19AM (#12124477)
    (Last Journal: Monday December 18 2006, @12:45AM)
    One of the most appealing facets of BeOS, IIRC, is the fact that it was FREE. At ~$100+tax, I don't see this flying off store shelves. Furthermore, I didn't read anything about it supporting RISC architecture (did I miss it)?
  • Hardware requirements? (Score:4, Interesting)

    I looked over their site and couldn't find hardware requirements documented.

    One thing I love about open source operating systems is that the system requirements are right there, up front -- or at least you don't have to look hard to find them.

    It claims to boot in 15 seconds, which I don't doubt. It would be great to use on a laptop for that very reason. However, will my poor little laptop be able to handle it? I'd love to know before I get my hopes up.

    • Re:Hardware requirements? by reverius (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:31AM
    • Re:Hardware requirements? (Score:5, Informative)

      by spy5600 (588085) on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:34AM (#12124556)
      Directly from yellowTAB [yellowtab.com]
      Hardware requirements

      Minimal Requirements:
      * Pentium 200MHz (or Cyrix, Athlon, Via...)
      * 32 MB RAM
      * 600 MB Hard Disk Space
      * 8 MB Video Memory
      * bootable CD-ROM Drive
      * Mouse, Keyboard, 14" Color Monitor

      Recommended Hardware:

      * Intel Pentium III 1 GHz (Celeron, AMD Athlon Duron/XP)
      * 256 MB RAM
      * 4 GB Hard Disk Space
      * 32 MB Video Memory
      * Soundcard
      * CD/DVD Drive
      * Mouse, Keyboard, 17" Color Monitor
      Check our hardware compatability [yellowtab.com] list to see if Zeta will run on your machine.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Hardware requirements? by Ann Elk (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @05:10AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Blessing in disguise? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by QQoicu2 (797685) on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:20AM (#12124483)
    Seems like the Unix base for OS X worked out pretty damn well for them... I don't think the boom Apple is going through right now could have been any more significant with a BeOS-based OS.
  • Obligatory.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Frodo Crockett (861942) on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:21AM (#12124487)
    To BeOS, or not to BeOS: that is the question:
    Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
    Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
    And by opposing end them?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:21AM (#12124488)
    This looks like a copy of OS X that's been brainwashed by pre-XP Windows. Or maybe just fell into a bad crowd.
  • Looks Promising... by RedElf (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:31AM
  • Be had it tough... by TheGuano (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:36AM
  • Way to kill it before it starts (Score:5, Insightful)

    by YrWrstNtmr (564987) on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:37AM (#12124569)
    "..it is expected that it will sell for approximately $100 plus tax."

    What can I do with it that I can't do with a free Linux distro, or the Windows that I already have? Tell me why I should drop $100 on this.

  • What's the relationship to BeOS? by HanzoSpam (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:43AM
  • Wow... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Quixote (154172) * on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:47AM (#12124610)
    (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday April 16 2003, @07:07AM)
    Link to a page containing 115 screenshots' thumbnails.
    Editors: dost thou have no mercy? From the depths of hell, the server stabs at thee!

    I'm bored, waiting for the DST to kick in.. ;-)

    • Re:Wow... by ari_j (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:06AM
    • Re:Wow... by Repugnant_Shit (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @04:13AM
  • Funny, (Score:5, Interesting)

    by z80 (103328) on Sunday April 03 2005, @01:06AM (#12124684)
    (http://z80.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday May 28 2002, @04:01PM)
    It was back in 2002 at the CeBIT show in Germany that the people from YellowTAB gave me a "late beta" of Zeta for reviewing purposes. "Only a few problems left to fix", they said.

    Turned out the entire GUI crashed all the time and tons of drivers where missing. Then came a big upgrade, then another beta and then... nothing.

    Now it's 2005, and it's now "ready for a release next month". I suggest they bury it instead. For good, or turn the whole thing over to the OpenBeOS people.
    • Re:Funny, by platypus (Score:3) Sunday April 03 2005, @03:03AM
      • Re:Funny, by JayAEU (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:43PM
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Same failed OS, Zany new name! by bmetz (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:06AM
  • 100? by FubarPA (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:25AM
  • Is there anything new? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by teslatug (543527) on Sunday April 03 2005, @01:37AM (#12124806)
    Have they made any major improvements since Be went under, or have they just slapped some make up on the last version and are trying to sell that?
  • Sadly by Mr. Cancelled (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:37AM
    • Re:Sadly (Score:4, Informative)

      by aztektum (170569) on Sunday April 03 2005, @01:52AM (#12124863)
      There's a link in the post, it goes to the article. You should click and read the fucking thing.

      yellowTAB has just announced details of what is to be expected for Zeta 1.0. The list includes ... breaking the 1GB memory barrier"

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Sadly by zurab (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:21AM
    • Re:Sadly by DRobson (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:32AM
    • Re:Sadly by Jeremi (Score:3) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:56AM
  • Yaaawn by Indiebrain (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:50AM
    • Re:Yaaawn by rsax (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:25AM
  • Sold on HomeShopping by troggan (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:03AM
  • Sure, pay $100 for an OS that does not run the latest Windows applications, hardly has any applications it runs natively, has limited driver support, and it is an effort to revive an OS that already killed at least one other company. How can you go wrong?

    On the plus side, it should have no malware available for it.

    I think Mac support for BeOS was killed when Apple refused to release info on the G3 Macs to Be, Inc. Therefore Be targeted the X86 market, hoping to save the company that way, because that is what NeXT did. Only NeXT tanked and got saved by Apple, yet Be, Inc. tanked and nobody saved it, and Palm bought out the corpse and buried it, until this Zeta Zombie rose from the dead.

    I think I'll take my chances with Linux, KNOPPIX/KANOITX seems to be stable enough, boots from a live CD, and has an option to be installed on a hard drive.

    I mean unless most of the major OSS projects are being converted to ZetaOS/BeOS, I think you can forget convicing enough people to buy a copy to make it worth their while.
  • Deju Vu by mamladm (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:20AM
    • Re:Deju Vu by argent (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @07:48AM
  • I wanna work in support there! by veg_all (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:21AM
  • I hate hate hate that ZetaOS (Score:5, Interesting)

    by magerquark.de (466363) on Sunday April 03 2005, @02:27AM (#12124990)
    (http://www.magerquark.de/)

    I do work for a small German company called "zeta software [zeta-producer.com]".

    Currently, yellowTab is selling the ZetaOS through multiple German home-order-TV shows to computer-illiterate persons. Of course most of them fail to successfully install ZetaOS on their supermarket-bought PCs.

    A daily average of two or there of them call us (not yellowTab!) and ask what they can do, now that they crashed both their Windows installation and their ZetaOS.

    Even the hints beside every phone number on our website that we have absolutely nothing to do with that ZetaOS did not help much.

    yellowTab seems to be aware of the problem that many many customers seems to be very discontented with ZetaOS and additionally call all companies that seem to have the Word "zeta" in their name (which are quite a few), because yellowTab hired a marketing agency (or how you call that in English) that called us some time ago on the phone.

    This agency seemed to have the task to call all those zeta-named companies and apologize for the "idiots" (= ZetaOS customers) calling them. The agency further asked us what the average questions of the ZetaOS customers was. You could call that "Indirect surveying" ;-).

    I really whish myself and all zeta-named companies that yellowTab runs out of venture-capital really soon and that they disappear and never ever return again *sigh*.

    • Re:I hate hate hate that ZetaOS by platypus (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @03:11AM
    • I know Germany is not a common law country, so I am not sure if the following applies there, but in common law countries (mostly the anglo-saxon world) you could get an injunction against Yellow Tab forcing them to change the name due to the fact that there are two kinds of trademarks: common law trademarks and registered trademarks.

      A registered trademark is quite obviously something you have to register with the trademark registry.

      A common law trademark is established through using a mark persistently. You don't have to register it.

      Needless to say, registered trademarks are easier to enforce, but common law trademarks are just as valid.

      Another important fact about trademarks is that there are 40+ different categories. Two companies can hold the same trademark for their products in the same country as long as they are in different categories. Since you are a software company and Yellow Tab's ZetaOS is a software product, there can be no doubt that both companies' products fall into the same category, the one for computer software.

      Now, assuming that German trademark law does acknowlegde common law trademarks, then you have established such a common law trademark by trading as Zeta Software. If you can show that you have been trading for longer than Yellow Tab has been marketing ZetaOS, then you stand a very good chance that you can get an injunction to force them to change the name. The fact that you have those errant calls will actually help you to go after them.

      Even if German trademark law doesn't help you, I am sure that German company law will have various clauses that protect a registered company's name from other companies in the same sector using the name.

      Don't have pity for them. They should have done their homework before launching their OS. They should have never picked that name in the first place. A simple check with the company registry would have revealed that you guys exist.

      On the other hand, if your company has been founded after Yellow Tab have started to market their OS under the Zeta name, then the blame would go to you guys.

      In any event, you should get some legal advice from a lawyer dealing in such matters and see what your options are.

      Good luck.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:I hate hate hate that ZetaOS by aug24 (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @05:33AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:I hate hate hate that ZetaOS by Attackman (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @09:00AM
  • What's the point? by brainnolo (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:28AM
  • Too bad by oncee (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @03:17AM
    • Re:Too bad by darien (Score:1) Monday April 04 2005, @01:40AM
      • Re:Too bad by oncee (Score:1) Monday April 04 2005, @07:43AM
  • BeOS is here to stay... (Score:5, Informative)

    by oktokie (459163) on Sunday April 03 2005, @03:31AM (#12125222)
    First check BeOS!
    http://web.archive.org/web/20010521150816/www.bene ws.com/beos/ [archive.org]
    to learn the root of the OS.

    BeOS was originally developed for BeBOX(custom ppc based smp box) and later started supporting 60x lines of PPC based Apple's Macintosh computers and power computing(Taiwan's mac licensed manufactural).
    With version 3.0 x86 versions started shipping.
    There were 3.0, 4.0, 4.5 then 5.0 Personal Edition and 5.0 Professional Edition.

    I personally believe that BeOS doomed itself with expensive public relations fund spend heavily on BeOS Preview release 2(Remember those BeOS preview release shipped with Mac related magazines for free?) and decision to start selling x86 version. They started offering free version for 5.0 called 5.0 Personal edition, which were bit late(developers have migrated to linux world then...). So company were bought out by Palm.

    However, right before they were bought out by Palm, there were two main project which disappeared all together.

    BeIA with SONY eVilla project and Dano(BeOS 5.5 release). BeIA pretty much slipped away when Be had office equipment auction when they closed down the building along with some handheld devices(tablet computers loaded with BeIA).

    I've heard rumors that after Sony seeing the utter failure of QNX based iOpner(which was immediately followed by another QNX based 3com'saudrey), axed eVilla and destroyed all produced units, so only surviving units are the ones that were auctioned off with BE office closing in CA(developer's machine?).

    After BE was sold to Palm...however, BE source along with Dano was leaked over Beshare(beos centric p2p software).

    So Dano(considered as unofficial release ver 5.1d0) .

    OpenBeOS movement started around this time.
    Now OpenBeOS has changed its name to Haiku-OS.
    http://www.haiku-os.org/ [haiku-os.org].

    And soon people started BeOS Developer's Edition
    at http://www.beosonline.com/ [beosonline.com].

    And other people started BeOS http://freshmeat.net/projects/beos-max/ [freshmeat.net]
    http://www.beos-max.org/ [beos-max.org].

    Both BeOS Developer's Edition and BeOS Max revolves around Be's latest official release BeOS Personal Edition 5.0 + 5.0.3 upates and many new improvement which were contributed by a user community developed opensource softwares & drivers.

    However, there versions which includes some unofficial released stuffs(stuffs from Dano and some controversial stuffs)
    http://phosphuros.tk/ [phosphuros.tk]
    You can read the article by OSnews here.
    http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6948 [osnews.com]

    Here are some screen shots provided by Korean BeOS UserGroup.
    http://www.bekrage.net/gallery/view_album.php?set_ albumName=screen [bekrage.net]
    BeOS is nice because Localization stuffs were incorporated into GUI nicer than most other OS, making easier to support different language than English, especially where language isn't based on phonetic latin based alphabet languages such as Korean/Chinese/Japanese. Thier alphabet is 8bit(or even 16bit) character based.

    Currently, Haiku-OS programmers are plugging away diligently where OS is almost ready, where most of the bread and butter applications were already worked out! This is a nicer situation where applications are already there when OS still hasn't shipped, due to special current circumstances of BeOS.

    ZetaOS is heavily based on BeOS R5.0.3 + Bone network(Dano style) + lots of improvement borrowed from drivers found on BeBits(opensource community of BeOS) + Haiku-OS(OpenBeOS).

    ZetaOS, there are RC1, RC2, RC3, Zeta Neo(considered as RC4) a
  • Yeah, great news.... by piecewise (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @03:37AM
  • Huh huh. heh heh. by BUTT-H34D (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @03:50AM
  • Looks like Linux running OpenTracker by Queer Boy (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @04:19AM
  • While picking "zeta"... by SharpFang (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @04:20AM
  • A Floater (Score:3, Insightful)

    by borud (127730) on Sunday April 03 2005, @04:50AM (#12125462)
    (http://borud.no/blog/)
    Is BeOS going to be another floater that won't flush, like the Amiga? Every time you think you've heard the last of it, it pops back up again, and you have to listen to all the fans go on about how special it is.

    Why can't they go after a market where it is needed? For instance, there are more and more ATMs popping up running windows and misbehaving in ways that you didn't think was possible for such a critical system.
    Obviously BeOS, or whatever the marketroids call it this week, is stable, lean, fast, and seems to support media processing well. Why not go for the upscale embedded market? Why not go for set-top boxes, portable media players etc?

    No business is going to jump ship and switch from Windows, OSX, Linux or whatever they run, to BeOS as their primary desktop OS. Come on.

  • Ya, but have any of you tried to install it? by msimm (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @04:57AM
  • It looks ugly. by gozu (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @05:01AM
  • Heh, that's the equivalent of weaking a "kick me" piece of paper on your back in high school when it comes to the /. effect.
  • BeOS (Score:5, Interesting)

    by wootest (694923) on Sunday April 03 2005, @05:37AM (#12125564)
    BeOS was insanely great, with some innovations that were entirely ahead of its time. But do they really have that much going for them now? Microsoft, Apple and several Linux groups already have highly GPU-integrated window managers going, for example, and work's being done on more metadata-rich filesystem-based platforms - WinFS and Spotlight both sit on top of NTFS and HFS+ respectively.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it'd take them a few months or years to catch up to the current state of technology, because it's been maintained by enthusiasts ever since the company maintaining it dropped it. Even for something that was ahead of its time, it has catching up to do, both when it comes to technology and killer apps, and I guess what I'm asking is... is it worth it?
  • is it multi user? by noamsml (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @05:49AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • I like this zombie OS by rakerman (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @06:35AM
  • good luck to them, but... by master_p (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @07:18AM
  • NTFS Volume? by krunk4ever (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @07:47AM
  • Interesting quotes (Score:5, Insightful)

    by beforewisdom (729725) on Sunday April 03 2005, @08:00AM (#12125848)
    "BeOS was a lighweight but full-fledged operating system designed from the ground up to be a desktop OS with strong multimedia capabilities. Its claim to fame was the real-time response of its graphical interface, even on low-powered hardware. Its minimalistic approach made it easy to use even for beginners. Its database-like BFS file system with indexed attributes made file searches a breeze. All of this in a system that could boot in 10 to 15 seconds on most hardware, and that was as stable as a rock."
    AND
    "... and a new non-destructive partition manager for easy installation of Zeta on machines that already have Windows or other OS installed. Zeta 1.0 will also come with numerous development tools, including Python 2.4 with a working Bethon (Python modules for Zeta), GNU bash 3.0, GNU coreutils (5.2.1), OpenSSH, and Bash autocomplete with Zeta-specific completion templates."
    AND
    "yellowTAB bundles many applications with Zeta, including an office suite called Gobe Productive that includes word processing, spreadsheet, graphics, and presentation applications; the Firefox Web browser; an instant messaging client for AIM (clients for MSN, ICQ, Yahoo, and Jabber are available separately); a CD burner and DVD player; numerous games; a PDF viewer and writer (you can create PDF files from any Zeta application that can print); a scanning front end; several emulators (BeBochs, DosBox, BeUAE, and others); and development tools. Zeta also benefits from the fact that most of the third-party BeOS applications found on Bebits.com can run on it as-is."
    That last part is particularly interesting. It comes with an amiga emulator, a dos emulatior, and "bochs" which supposedly can run another operating system and that operating systems software within it.
    If all of that works...I know a big "if"...there shouldn't any shortage of software.
  • Odd operating system out? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by beforewisdom (729725) on Sunday April 03 2005, @08:18AM (#12125898)
    Moving to a BSD(unix) based system breathed new life into the MAC with a world of software possibilities and its ability to place nice with other systems. MAC has proven that unix can be used for a friendly and powerful desk top system. In a way it also proven that it is very hard to make it as a third party alternative sandwiched in between the Nix * Windows world. This reincarnation of BeOS sounds interesting enough for me to buy a copy, but I wonder about its potential to survive in niche that is similar to one that MAC decided was not a good place to be. Maybe the 2 keys this time around is that it is starting off in Europe away from Bill Gates' home market and that microsoft may be distracted with linux as a challenger to the point of not trying to crush this new version of beOS
  • Nov 15 2001 kernel by cacheMan (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @09:09AM
  • Not OS X but Cobalt... by WareW01f (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @10:24AM
  • Missing Features by allenw (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @11:01AM
  • Hmmm. by Patrick Mannion (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @11:15AM
  • shows its age by ywwg (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @11:21AM
  • My favorite BeOSism... by FauxPasIII (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @11:27AM
  • Multi-User BeOS? by entrylevel (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:00PM
  • Whats with this? by Jozer99 (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:26PM
  • ModLevel5 :: Funny=5 : Informative=3 by ElitistWhiner (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:31PM
  • Boot Time? by Mad Ogre (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:37PM
  • Run in Virtual Machine? by chiph (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:16PM
  • how many here have used it... by soapdog (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:27PM
  • Too expensive... by Mage66 (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:19PM
  • kernel is old! by Kenyon (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @03:21PM
  • Soon to be followed by... by Masami Eiri (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @03:21PM
  • Looks good except... by RobertKozak (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @04:25PM
  • The Screen Savers by assassinator42 (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @06:42PM
  • GREAT OS FOR AUDIO/VIDEO WORKSTATION by maxpaceaol.com (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @09:24PM
  • thats nice... by torrents (Score:1) Monday April 04 2005, @01:33AM
  • BOFH... by webhat (Score:2) Monday April 04 2005, @03:16PM
  • Re:Say what now? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:20AM (#12124484)
    BeOS was considered very strongly as a foundation for what would become OS X instead of NeXT - see the What is OS X? [kernelthread.com] guide.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Zeta OS (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:21AM (#12124491)
    Zeta OS? Now what are they going to call the next version? It's like Apple calling their OS, OS Infinity.

    Apparently you were never in grade school. The next version would be "Infinity plus one and no returns."
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:Zeta OS by JamesTRexx (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:10AM
    • Re:Zeta OS by jonadab (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @06:40AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Zeta OS by brilinux (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:23AM
  • Just the truth by Jonathan (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:24AM
  • Re:Zeta OS (Score:5, Funny)

    by cammoblammo (774120) <cammo@NOsPAm.netcall.com.au> on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:28AM (#12124524)
    Hmm, they seem to be using a fair bit of GNU in there. Better make it GNU/Zeta.

    Or, if it's meant for novices, GNU/Be.
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:Zeta OS (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:44AM (#12124596)
      It took me a second to get the subtle GNU/Ance of this post.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Zeta OS by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:47AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Zeta OS by Zorilla (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:40AM
    • Re:Zeta OS by DRobson (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:19AM
    • Re:Zeta OS by codergeek42 (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:28AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:yes! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:29AM
  • Re:yes! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:31AM
  • Re:yes! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 2nd Post! (213333) <gundbear@@@pacbell...net> on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:33AM (#12124551)
    (http://nekobox.org/)
    The world seems pretty happy with iTunes, the colored iMac, the iPod, and the iPod mini.

    How would the world be better off if Apple chose BeOS over Jobs? It's not immediately obvious to me.
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:yes! by Jonathan (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:45AM
      • Re:yes! by wizbit (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:30AM
        • Re:yes! by argent (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:49AM
  • Re:Say what now? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:34AM
  • Re:Say what now? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jmunkki (726856) on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:36AM (#12124567)
    When Apple's Copland plans failed, they looked for outside help. Jean-Louis Gassée's Be Inc. was one of those possible sources. Steve Jobs was the one they eventually chose.

    BeOS would have been more lightweight and probably more efficient, but OS X is maturing into something quite useable. The UNIX roots of OS X have helped lure new developers and new types of users to the platform. Having more developers is never a bad thing.

    BeOS would also have been a cleaner start. It's difficult to say how much (or if) UNIX is holding back MacOS X. I find OS X somewhat bloated, especially in terms of the number of files that it is comprised of. I wish it took less time to make a backup.

    BeOS is/was also advanced in terms of file meta data. That situation is still quite messy in MacOS X.
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:Say what now? by NanoGator (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:09AM
      • Re:Say what now? by larry bagina (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:57AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Say what now? (Score:4, Informative)

        by pascalpp (684288) on Sunday April 03 2005, @02:39AM (#12125041)
        (http://www.pascal.com/)
        I'm sure someone out there can do a better job of explaining this, but I'll take a shot:

        Metadata is data about data. File metadata is information describing a file or its contents.

        On many operating systems, file metadata comes primarily in the form of filename extensions. A file with the name "house.jpg" can reasonably be assumed to be a JPEG image file.

        Unfortunately, filename extensions are pretty limited as a means of storing file metadata. There's a lot of other metadata one might want to store and retrieve for a give file.

        Classic Mac OS went a small step further, storing 2 pieces of file metadata: file type and file creator. This information was stored separately from the filename, allowing Mac users to name there files whatever they wanted, without having to include a filename extension. It also allowed them to have some JPEGs open in Photoshop when double-clicked, and others to open in a web browser, by means of the files' creator metadata.

        Not too much later, the World Wide Web appeared, and with it the use of filename extensions as required metadata for any files to be transferred via the Internet. So Mac users learned to live with filename extensions. Most of them were already doing so.

        One development that accompanied the rise of the Internet was the development of mime types, another means of storing file metadata. BeOS used mime types extensively for storing file metadata, in conjunction with a database-driven filesystem. From what I saw, the combination was pretty effective and powerful.

        File metadata on Mac OS X is a mess because Apple has officially abandoned the traditional Mac type/creator metadata system. This is one area where Apple could have taken a leadership position as they transitioned their core userbase and developers to their new OS, as they did in other areas like Core Audio, but instead of replacing the type/creator paradigm with some newer, better metadata system along the lines of that which already existed in BeOS, they simply chose to fall back to the less powerful but more internet-compatible filename extension paradigm. Yet they did not completely abandon the traditional system, as it would have made porting classic Mac apps to O S X more difficult. So some Mac OS X apps use type/creator metadata, some only use filename extensions, and some use both. Without a clear leadership direction from Apple, things are kind of a mess. Not that most users would notice.

        There is some hope. Last I checked, Dominic Giampaolo was still working at Apple. He was the main brain behind the BeOS filesystem and went to work for Apple a few years back. He's responsible for the journaling support that was recently added to Mac OS X. Many folks (myself among them) are hoping that Dominic will bring the BeOS metadata system (or something like it) to Mac OS X. I believe Tiger and Spotlight will bring some improvements in this area.
        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Say what now? by bani (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @03:08AM
          • Re:Say what now? by mabhatter654 (Score:3) Sunday April 03 2005, @04:04AM
            • Re:Say what now? (Score:5, Interesting)

              by bani (467531) on Sunday April 03 2005, @05:32AM (#12125553)
              no, i do understand.

              the problem of storing metadata that way is that its non portable. it's exactly the same problem that plagued macos classic. great when you only deal with macs but bad when the internet comes around and suddenly you have no simple way to transport files around.

              also bad when you need to talk eg nfs or smb.

              storing metadata in bundles and the whole bundle system allows macos to be transparenly "native" on just about any filesystem.

              linux and nt have the ability to attach metadata to files, but nobody uses it. it would be a huge pain if anyone did start, because it would then suffer from again being non portable.

              osx bundles are a sort of compromise between having metadata available, but in a way thats portable. its a bit ugly, but it works.

              its also all xml, woo woo.
              [ Parent ]
              • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Say what now? by FidelCatsro (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:43AM
    • by theolein (316044) on Sunday April 03 2005, @06:39AM (#12125674)
      Considering the fact that Gassee apparently wanted $400 million in the end, I think it was a wise move.

      Not only that, but the NeXT system had a significant userbase, and, more importantly, software. There was a large amount of software that was available on NeXT, some of which is still being added to OSX now (Apple's Pages software, for example, was once a NeXT app called, wait for it, Pages). Also, Next had the advantage of being used in research institutions (The WWW was developed on a NeXT by Tim Berners-Lee) and was one of the very first systems to offer a fully fledged web application server (WebObjects). The fact that NeXT also had the advantage of some 8 or 9 years of experience and development behind it didn't hurt its chances either.

      Possibly, one of the additional factors in Apple's decision was the fact that basing the next Apple OS on BeOS would have meant using a completely untested system. Untested in the market, I mean. Given that Apple really was in dire straights at the time (1995-1996), I think Apple made a wise decision.

      But who knows, perhaps BeOS would have made apple become the absolute killer in the OS world.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Say what now? by bani (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @09:22AM
    • Re:Say what now? by mmeister (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @09:24AM
    • Re:Say what now? by Antique Geekmeister (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @11:58AM
    • No it wasn't. by theolein (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @06:26AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Say what now? by reverius (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:38AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:yes, another OS! Hooray! by vjouppi (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:43AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Zeta OS by Wavicle (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:45AM
    • Re:Zeta OS by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:33AM
  • Re:yes! by ruiner5000 (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:49AM
    • No. by argent (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:47AM
    • Re:yes! by mmeister (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @09:31AM
  • Re:hardware support by Lehk228 (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:52AM
  • Re:15 Seconds? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Luddite (808273) on Sunday April 03 2005, @12:53AM (#12124638)
    >> That's pretty good. Does anyone else know of a fast booting OS? I personally hate waiting for my PC to boot up.

    Most of the time my "boot up" is waiting 3 seconds for the monitor to warm up. I don't shut of the PC, just the monitor.

    If you want a fast boot time, run linux and leave it running...
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:old news by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @12:59AM
  • Re:Why Zeta? by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:10AM
    • Re:Why Zeta? by Caspian (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:12AM
      • Re:Why Zeta? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:14AM
        • Re:Why Zeta? by Caspian (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:24AM
      • Re:Why Zeta? by oktokie (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:35AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Why Zeta? by Bootle (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:13AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Zeta OS by agildehaus (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:37AM
  • Re:yes! by argent (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:42AM
  • Linux + suspend2 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Sunday April 03 2005, @01:46AM (#12124837)
    (Last Journal: Tuesday October 30, @10:59AM)
    My laptop's Linux takes about 30 seconds to boot up, counting from the bootloader, when resuming from a suspend [suspend2.net]. This could be tuned a LOT, though -- if I forced it to clean out more memory and write fewer caches, and repeated this on my desktop (which takes 30 seconds for a normal boot, so it'd be much faster from suspend), I might get 15 seconds.

    Maybe that's cheating. My desktop linux takes about a minute, including time spent launching an X and a couple of needed programs.

    But seriously, people, this is really just problem of bootscripts and choice of desktop. That means that I can make my OS boot in 30 seconds merely by switching to a lightweight window manager, doing a little bash programming, and cleaning out the init scripts I don't need.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:Why Zeta? by Narchie Troll (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:49AM
  • Re:Source Code by agildehaus (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @01:52AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:yes, another OS! Hooray! by DRobson (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:26AM
  • Re:yes! by goates (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:26AM
  • by timmarhy (659436) on Sunday April 03 2005, @02:37AM (#12125033)
    "The next significant step in computing will be an OS that becomes much more proactive; it watches and learns what you like to do, and over time it will perform tasks on your behalf without being instructed to.." i sincerely hope this never happens. i can't think of anything more fucking annoying then a pc that does what it wants, not what it's told. it's bad enough as it is right now with windows. of course, your just spouting bullshit like some unsanitary fountain, so typical.
    [ Parent ]
  • Re:yes! by ArbitraryConstant (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:38AM
  • Re:yes! by mrchaotica (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:38AM
    • Re:yes! by be-fan (Score:3) Sunday April 03 2005, @03:22AM
      • Re:yes! by bani (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @09:27AM
    • Re:yes! by DRobson (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @04:12AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:yes! by cianduffy (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @08:30AM
      • Re:yes! by mrchaotica (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @02:49PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:yes, another OS! Hooray! by kfg (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @03:46AM
  • Re:Will it run on any PC?? by oktokie (Score:1) Sunday April 03 2005, @09:14AM
  • Re:this reaks of... by Sj0 (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @11:43AM
  • Re:is it even open source? by Sj0 (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @11:59AM
  • Re:yes! by ruiner5000 (Score:2) Sunday April 03 2005, @03:24PM
  • Re:Zeta OS by boots@work (Score:2) Wednesday April 06 2005, @08:27AM
  • 24 replies beneath your current threshold.