They Might Be Giants Open Their Own Music Store

slothdog writes "They Might Be Giants have opened their own music store, featuring "highest quality" (256kbps LAME) un-DRM-encumbered mp3's. There are only two CDs currently available (at $0.99/song or $9.99/album), but presumably more will be added as time goes on. Looks like a great way to directly support the artists."

Sounds good.

Hey, if I can download particle man, then all is good in the world.

Re:Sounds good.

You can't on there, but it is available on the iTMS

Re:Nice.

"Blue Canary" is actually called Birdhouse in Your Soul. Both "Birdhouse" and "Particle Man" are off "Flood".

Currently, only two TMBG albums are available. "NO!", their children's album, and "They Got Lost", a collection of rarities. But I'm going to assume that they will eventually have all of their albums available. Of course, I already have all of their albums on CD (and several on vinyl).

Re:Nice.

I'm sure they'll distribute their own music... unless they don't own the copyrights to it!

Sadly this is more often than not the case. Recording contracts are generally "contractual work" and due to recent changes that were snuck into U.S. copyright law this definition is now binding. If the artists did this for a record label they'll never own it, and have to pay to sell their own music. Which would be such a horrible shame.

I don't know what sort of label TMBG played under, so this may not be the case. They may be free to sell their music whenever they want, and are just starting slowly. I sure hope so.

Re:Nice.

The change of the "work for hire" definition was snuck in via a technical amendment to The Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act of 1999.

AFAIK, it has not been struck down.

Re:Nice.

The change of the "work for hire" definition was snuck in via a technical amendment to The Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act of 1999.

AFAIK, it has not been struck down.

The parent posting is indeed informative; it was all I needed to find this [austinchronicle.com] incredibly informative article from August 2000.

It was also enough to turn up this [wired.com] other article from November 2000:

The work-for-hire issue has been a sore point between artists and the recording industry for the past year.

Last year the music labels successfully lobbied to insert into unrelated legislation a clause that prevents copyrights from reverting to their authors. Now, they've agreed with artists to recommend rescinding the change in copyright law.

By adding four words -- "as a sound recording" -- deep within the Satellite Home Viewer Improvement Act of 1999, Congress essentially changed the work-for-hire section of the copyright code.

Artists were enraged by what they considered to be back room dealing between the recording industry and Congress. Led by Sheryl Crow and Don Henley, musicians formed a coalition to begin negotiating with the Recording Industry Association of America and the government to repeal the additions.

In October, President Clinton signed into law a bill that removed those four words.

I wish a happy Independence Day to musicians everywhere.

Re:Nice.

Fortunately we have independent artists like TMBG who do own their own music.

Independent...as in...they don't have a label.

They're not just starting to release their music. They've been doing it for a while.

The RIAA doesn't represent the entire music buisness. Go check out cdbaby.com where other indie musicians are releasing their own work, without a contract.

You don't need a label to sing a song. (or be good at singing a song.)

And while we're on the subject of labels and contracts and stuff, let me just plug this now famous document in case you haven't read it: http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

What about outside the US?

Will they be available to customers in Istanbul (not Constantanople)?

Re:What about outside the US?

Will they be available to customers in Istanbul (not Constantanople)?

That's nobody's business but the Turks.

Re:What about outside the US?

I don't remember which consonant to put the heavy-metal umlaut over, so "Spinal Tap" will have to do.

Just take a cue from Mötlëy Crüë - thë mörë ümläüts, thë härdër yøü røck. It's some kind of rule or something.

Or was it "the more umlauts, the harder you suck"? I can never remember...

Do not suck? They got a cameo role...

...in Terry Pratchett's Soul Music ! They've gotta be good!

'So what do you call yourselves?'

'Er - dwarfs, Mr Dibbler,' said the lead dwarf.

'"Dwarfs"?'

'Yes, sir.'

'Why?'

'Because we are, Mr Dibbler,' said the lead dwarf patiently.

'No, no, no. That won't do. That won't do at all. You gotta have a name with a bit of-' Dibbler waved his hands in the air, '-with a bit of Music With Rocks In . . . uh . . . in. Not just "Dwarfs". You gotta be . . . oh, I don't know . . . something more interesting.'

'But we're certainly dwarfs,' said one of the dwarfs.

'"We're Certainly Dwarfs",' said Dibbler. 'Yes, that might work. OK. I can book you in at the Bunch of Grapes on Thursday. And into the Free Festival, of course. Since it's free you don't get paid, of course.'

The last line proves that Terry really does know about the music industry. (-:

some day...

Some day middlemen will die and I'll get the money...

Now all they need is someone to back them.

Some huge artist needs to join the bandwagon...

without that, or some pepsi backing, it won't win the 'music store race'

(where's limp bizkit, after their last album they would do something like this for the publicity)

Dial a song

Don't forget their dial-a-song site!

They've got some intersting old stuff on it.

Dial-a-Song [dialasong.com]

wha?

please do not trade them with your friends or post them on-line as this service is how we are making a living

I hope they don't honestly expect to make a living selling a handful of $0.99 cent tracks.

I hope they don't honestly think that people aren't going to trade them with their friends.

I hope they realize their terms of use is 404.

Disclaimer: I never really got into TMBG (read: I don't like them).

Re:wha?

I hope they don't honestly expect to make a living selling a handful of $0.99 cent tracks.

TMBG has been around and "making a living" for literally decades. I doubt you need to worry about Them. They'll be okay.

LOL ... it's DOT COM!

From the website:

TMBG and the fine folks at homestarrunner.com are teaming up for a number of projects. The folks who brought you Strong Bad are working on an animated internet video of "Experimental Film" TMBG's upcoming single off "The Spine." John and John also recently sat down to an impromptu jam session with the Homestar puppet and performed "A Little Help from My Friends" and some Billy Idol songs nobody knew the words for. Hear TMBG music at www.homestarrunner.com (email #99)

hehe.

Great songs....

Music Store man, Music Store man Doing the things a Music Store can What's he like? It's not important Music Store man Is he a dot, or is he a speck? When he's underwater does he get wet? Or does the water get him instead? Nobody knows, Music Store Man Music Store man, Music Store man Music Store man hates Napster man They have a fight, Music Store wins Music Store man I-Tunes man, I-Tunes man Size of the entire universe man Usually kind to smaller man I-Tunes man He's got a watch with a minute hand, Millenium hand and an eon hand When they meet it's a happy land Powerful man, I-Tunes man P2P man, P2P man Hit on the head with a frying pan Lives his life in a garbage can P2P man Is he depressed or is he a mess? Does he feel totally worthless? Who came up with P2P man? Degraded man, P2P man Music Store man, Music Store man Music Store man hates P2P man They have a fight, Music Store wins Music Store man

Almost...

I haven't purchased a TMBG album since FLOOD (a lifetime ago, I know), but was ready to purchase both the albums just to show support. The little help window mentioned specific browser versions needed on Windows and Mac, and I would have preferred to either see Linux mentioned in that window, or some explanation as to why specific versions were necessary to download. Not sure what would happen with Mozilla, so I figure I'll wait until someone posts here.

I also didn't like the '6 hour time window' in which to download my purchase... I'd like more time to resolve any issues that might come up doring download - in fact, I'd like them to create an account for me, and let me download them at any time - and possibly again in the future if for some reason I lose them.

Re:Almost...

bitch bitch bitch.

p.s. bitch bitch

Re:Almost...

Perhaps you should send these ideas to their contact email [e-mail]. I doubt specific versions are needed, usually versions on a website means "don't bug us if you use something older". And anything that works on Netscape 4 or later has a 99%+ chance of working under Mozilla.

Think of this as the store version 1. They wanted to get something up, I'm sure they'll take ideas for improvements.

Thanks for the non-flash version guys!

Clicking on the "You dont have flash - click here for the text version" pops up a TMBG guy telling me "Get flash you hippie"

Way to shame me into it.

this is great

Wow, and I'm not encumbered by the choice of which music to buy. I hope they don't add to much more music. It's just perfect as is! It's also great for the /. crowd: one site, one crowd, two CDs to rule them all.

Not practical or profitable

less people will know that They Might Be Giants have their own stuff.

They would almost certainly be more profitaable in the long haul even if they get less from iTunes/Apple, but I guess having the two is a good idea too.

They seem to be on all the major online stores and have their own - good move.

What they should do is offer a discount of whatever they get from iTunes/Apple for those that have bought iTunes Music Store Songs.

Pricing

I realize that simplicity in pricing is their goal, but it seems odd that little between track oddities lasting 34 seconds are priced the same as a 'real' song.

TMBG put on the most entertaining concert I've ever attended. The skit with the puppet heads in the spotlight 15 feet over the stage was a scream. And lugging the glockenspiel all the way to Colorado for one note during one song was a nice touch.

Re:Pricing

It seems like iTMS is just as simple-minded when it comes to pricing. E.g. for the album "Pull My Finger [apple.com]," an album full of fart tracks that don't last more than 10 seconds* - much shorter than the 30 seconds preview - however they all cost 0.99 cents each.

* To be fair, I should mention that a few tracks last longer than 10 seconds, including the best selling track on the album, "Yankee Doody Daddy," which is 1:18 long.

Laws of Karma

My band has given away online tunes free for a couple of years now. At least you can play it through the site, you can probably figure out how to save them with a bit of geekery and craftiness, I am sure.

Despite giving away the music, we get at least a couple of CD sales through the internet every week!

Karma seems to be working in this case, because people often email in and say they heard the band on the radio, loved the music, did a web search, listened to a lot of the tunes, and wanted to own a copy for themselves or as a gift.

Not sure if this will work in 5 years if people don't buy CDs any more, but it's working for us at the moment.

Shameless plug - go to www.oninvisiblewings.com to see what I mean. If you listen to some tunes and decide to buy the album, then you will have proved the theory! A good intoduction the music is A Formidable Marinade.

Regards,

The Baron von Babyface

(with the face of a boy on the body of a middle-aged man)

[e-mail]

Well, They might be giants...

But their site is obviously not.

Continuing a long tradition

They Might Be Giants were one of the first artists years ago to release an album ONLY in MP3 emusic.com which, while it's not as cool now, for a little while was pretty nice, it was cheap, DRMless and available in multiple formats at multiple bitrates.

Beyond that though, they regularly put songs up on their website, including exclusive unreleased songs (similar to their dial-a-song service where you call up and hear a new song on their answering machine).

A step in the right direction

I have to say the one major hurdle that has steered me away from downloading music from the iTunes and others has been the DRM. I'm sure there's few among this crowd that would disagree. I realize, I could still burn my downloaded music to a CD and do what I please with it, but it's really the principal of the fact.

But my complaint comes out at lossy codecs. Maybe I'm just being too picky, but the less compressed the better. A few years ago I put my whole CD collection in MP3 format for my computer/portable listening enjoyment. All at 160K CBR using XING. Of course, with the availability of an ogg player for my handheld PC, I have converted again much of my CD collection to ogg format for my computer/portable listening enjoyment.
If I hadn't had the uncompressed quality of the CD, I'd be stuck with my older MP3 encoded files. I had heard of a project earlier put forth where the company/band was releasing tracks in multiple formats, including FLAC (curious if anyone has a link or knows what I'm talking about?).
I personally wish that others would go this route--more choice.

I'm done complaining though. Seeing artists walk away from DRM is a great thing. Seeing them recognize the importance of the higher bitrate is also very encouraging. I hope this causes more of a rift between the good bands and the strong arm of the RIAA. It can only be a move in the right direction for consumers.

Live Phish

http://www.livephish.com/

They have both MP3 and FLAC of their shows, and they are available within a day or two of the show. They have "every show Phish has played since 12/31/02" along with some other shows too.

Re:A step in the right direction

Primus [primussucks.com] also sells live recordings in MP3 and FLAC formats at Primuslive.com. [primuslive.com] MP3's cost $9.99 for a show (2-3 CD's) and FLACs cost $14.99.

Metallica

While maybe not popular here on /., Metallica does exactly what you're talking about. They sell soundboard recordings of every concert in both MP3 and FLAC, usually within 48 hours of the show. For those that care, its here [livemetallica.com].

From what I understand, just like the service Phish has. I just wish more bands did the same.

Makes a lot of sense

Makes a lot of sense to get rid of DRM since people can already buy audio CDs anyway which are DRM free. And might as well sell it in a format currently most popular amongst consumers, mp3, although I wish they'd also sell it in AAC format (comparable audio quality takes up less space on my hard drive).

Regarding other artists that also give away free mp3s, I find a lot of artists on the Kill Rock Stars [killrockstars.com] label give away free full length mp3s, especially Stereo Total [stereototal.de] (factsheet [killrockstars.com]) and DeerHoof [killrockstars.com] (factsheet [killrockstars.com], Puzzling Music Archive [suchfun.net]).

News?!?

Don't get me wrong, I love TMBG...

But what makes this newsworthy?

A lot of artists, like Stuart Davis [stuartdavis.com] have been selling high quality MP3s à la carte for song time. Most of Stuart's are ripped using LAME --alt-preset extreme, now --preset extreme, for even higher quality than TMBG's CBR rips. And, Stuart even offers free songs [stuartdavis.com].

This is good, to be sure...

but I really wish someone would get up and offer unencoded raw music files. At 48,000kbps sampling rate. This lets me choose what lossy format I want to use, and I would seriously start buying entire albums like candy.

I bought it

I just bought it for a few reasons:

1) I like TMBG.
2) It helps support the artist very effectively.
3) If enough people buy it, it will send a message to the RIAA that selling unencumbered MP3s is a better business than selling all these DRMed tunes.

By the way, no problems during the download process. Very easy, but not as seemless as iTMS. Still fun, and I was happy enough spending the $10.

Re:I bought it

2) It helps support the artist very effectively.

How sure are you of that, exactly? They pay to have the webpage up. They pay for the store. They have to pay a fee to the credit card companies for every transaction. They could quite possibly be giving a percentage to some producer, agent, etc.

3) If enough people buy it, it will send a message to the RIAA that selling unencumbered MP3s is a better business than selling all these DRMed tunes.

Yeah, that's what they'll see... They won't realize that it's merely the same price as iTunes, and lacking their beloved DRM. Thereby making iTunes seem even better of a deal.

I'm sure, it won't send them the other message, that people are willing to pay massively inflated prices for music.

$10 for a CD would be rather high. $10 for lossy digital files, with DRM, and no physical media, is unconscionable.

Buy it if you want, but don't dilute yourself into thinking that by doing so, you are sending them a compelling message, that might convince them to be less evil.

have to give them credit

TMBG is a band that has worked their asses off for years and years. While not "commercially viable" according to what corporate overlords dictate, they've managed to garner a cult following and become a success. I remember being in Manhattan more than a decade ago and I couldn't walk a few blocks anywhere in the city without seeing their flyers all over the place. If any group deserves success and attention, it's these guys.

I heard them on Air America Radio the other day and they were great... I especially loved the bit where they "accidently" gave out the 1-800-AFAMILY telephone number of the right wing religious nutjob organization that apparently sent out a missive to people with Michael Moore's personal contact information and suggested he be harassed for releasing the "un-american" movie Fahrenheit 911 [michaelmoore.com].

That is cool.

You should also be aware seminal european electronic music label Warp Records does much the same thing with their catalog. [warprecords.com]

Smashing Pumpkins - ahead of the game ;)

There's tons of The Smashing Pumpkins [billy-corgan.com] stuff that Billy (lead singer) got people to release. Some major stuff, like a 5 disc set of B-sides (Mashed Potatoes).

Most of this stuff here was made by Billy himself, and given to an online fan with the message to "circulate this". He's a pretty cool guy, and he's going to be releasing a new album [billycorgan.com].

Yea, but its already...

Yea, Flood, the album everyone wants is already on Rhapsody. Its no itunes, i guess, but as a mobie tech, my music follows and i pay 10 bucks a month for as many new albums as I choose to support, and a crapload more. So uhh yea, once again, real isnt the company you want it to be, Apple isnt always the best choice, and ill always get modded down. Thx slashdot!

Weedshare.com sets a nice balance - Weed files.

I love "The Might Be Giants," and it's nice to see them taking this step, but not every musician can start their own on-line store. With Weed files, you just need to have the files on a web site.

With Weed [sharenewyork.com], musicians always get to set the price of the song (usually about a dollar, of course) and get 50% from every sale. Weed publishers Shared Media Licensing, Inc gets just 15%. 35% goes to the people buying then sharing the music. (20%, 10%, then 5% commissions) And sites like ShareNewYork.com [sharenewyork.com] make it very easy to buy Weed files, upload them, and review why it's and great song, why you chose it. Whatever the cost of the song, if 5 people buy it, the song has paid for itself. It's also a great place to look for new songs, because most songs are posted with a few words from a fan.

Weed files are legal to share, and will play 3 times for free (on Windows Machines. Macophiles, I feel your pain [sharenewyork.com]) They are ideal for new musicians, since it is usually free to get your music in this format, and the music must be original. Now that CD Baby has endorsed Weed, 65,000+ musicians can convert their files by oping in to Weed as part of digital distribution, again for free.

Oh, and Heart's new Album, Jupiter's Daughter, is available in Weed.

For some reason, this Weed - CD Baby deal [sharenewyork.com] is completely below the notice of the media. I think it's the biggest deal in OMD since MP3.com went public, but the media doesn't get it. Anyone see anything about it here on /. ? What's up with that? CD Baby gives that needed catalog of 100,000+ files. As a whole, CD Baby represents 230,000 songs, but it remains to be seen how many will opt in.

With Weed files [weedshare.com], there's actual potential for income for everyone ... musician, distributors, and even fans! The better each does their job, the more everyone will make. Music becomes a capital investment. it makes new business models of music possible. Now is the time to get involved.

Pre-chewed baby food

Sounds good to me. If more bands take control of their own output like this, that can only be a good thing. I used to think it might just be me getting older, but modern music really is rubbish: it's pre-chewed baby food and has to be, because there's so much money involved in marketing and packaging and lawyers that it has to be dumbed down for the largest possible audience just to make any kind of profit.

What would work even better is if a band's CD also acts as a passport for added-value services on the website - so if you buy a CD, you can also download MP3s, bonus tracks, wallpapers, ringtones and so on from the website at no additional charge. Real fans buy the CD and get extra goodies. Passing fans just download MP3s cheaply and delete them if they get tired of them. Anyone who just wants to check out the band will pick up some MP3s from their favourite P2P network and either buy more or decide they suck, so it's not like the band loses out.

See? No need for DRM if you DIY. I'm in a band myself... if we ever get round to recording anything, that's the way I want us to go. I'm too old to go selling my soul to a record company.

This ain't so good...

I paid my $10.00 to download They Might Be Lost just before bed last night. It can download all night, then I have new music to listen to in the morning!

Except that they give you a page with 21 download links on it! That's right: click on the first track, click save. Click on the next track, wait for the save dialog to show up, click save. Click on the third track, wait a LONG time for the save dialog... It's insane.

But it gets worse. Each file wants to be named "tmbg_6134634563543_12.mp3" instead of, say, "12 - Reprehensible.mp3". I haven't managed to download any tracks yet so know about the tagging but, given the file names, I don't expect much...

And, they give you only a six hour window in which to download everything! I was too tired to go through the hassle last night, so I went to bed. This morning, of course, I'm locked out.

You've got to be kidding me. I still buy my music because I believe artists should be paid for their hard work (buying CDs direct from the band in small venues is my favorite). But, let me tell you, file sharing is one hell of a lot easier to use than this site! At least I can download all the tracks at once, have it work overnight, and they're usually named something sensible.

Please contact me when I can click *one* link, then download properly named files. Anything else is just a waste of my time.

Good thing I paid by credit card...

Re:why why why!

why can't these music stores use a more superior format. they can then give more bang for your bitrate. they still stick with the old mp3.

there are portable vorbis players out there, we need more online stores now.

Yeah, because when you want to reach the widest possible audience with your new e-tailing venture, you should always endeavour to avoid selling popular products or using popular technologies in favour of more obsure goods or less supported formats.

Oh, wait, that business model's been patented. Do you remember boo.com?

Re:why why why!

Just like most of the world, people tend to cater to the majority. Most people do not use Ogg. Most people use MP3. Fact of life.

In fact, I suspect that there are a huge number of MP3 hardware players compared to Ogg. I only know of one or two dedicated hardware players capable of playing Ogg files. A few more that do WMA, and I could list probably twice as many MP3 players. Do the math. You want to sell to the most people, you give them the format that's used most often.

Re:Already up for sharing...

You suck dude.

If an artist requests that you don't file share their music, don't. If they support filesharing, then fine, thats where most of the good music is anyway (even though i am a HUGE fan of TMBG).

If they're giving you (trusting you with) good-quality non-DRM mp3s (mp3's yeah yeah ok ogg is better), don't abuse that.