Next Generation Stun Guns? 465
RoyalCheese writes "Well, I've just been reading an interesting little article on New Scientist's website about new crowd control weapons that electrocute/stun the targets. Seems we will soon be at risk of being stunned by ionised air generated by laptop sized lasers..." Reader Spetiam adds "News.com.au reports on a new weapon that will be able to zap you from afar, wires not included: 'We will be able to fire a stream of electricity like water out of a hose at one or many targets in a single sweep,' XADS [Xtreme Alternative Defense Systems] president Peter Bitar is quoted as saying." So, this company has a free-hosting website and and a free-email address for their "president", and the photo looks like cardboard tubes wrapped with green camouflage tape. Hmmmm.
Obligatory quote... (Score:3, Funny)
Oh the pain, the pain of it all... (Score:4, Funny)
Cant they somehow strap this frickin laser beem to that frickin guys head?
Im the president of this frickin company for frickin sake.
Re:Oh the pain, the pain of it all... (Score:5, Funny)
I'd hate to see what this thing can do when actually used...
Re:Oh the pain, the pain of it all... (Score:2)
"Oh, my pace maker!"
And more importantly, does anyone know what this will do to my laptop?
Re:Oh the pain, the pain of it all... (Score:3, Interesting)
Now if only I can get them to demonstrate it by taking a pot shot at the 500KV power line nearby and producing an ionized current path...
Re:Oh the pain, the pain of it all... (Score:2)
Re:Oh the pain, the pain of it all... (Score:3, Funny)
As another poster noted, Ghostbusters was doing this 20 years ago...
but MY question is...
Reminds me of... (Score:5, Funny)
We will be able to fire a stream of electricity like water out of a hose at one or many targets in a single sweep
Re:Reminds me of... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Reminds me of... (Score:3, Funny)
And the e-mail is @lycos? You would think a company with gov't contracts, doing R&D on multi-million (billion?) dollar equipment could afford $35/year for domain registration, plus $10/month on hosting...man talk about cost slashing freaks!
Re:Reminds me of... (Score:5, Insightful)
Am I the only one who thinks a respectable company/research group would NOT call their technology "Xtreme" anything, let alone Xtreme Alternative Defense System To The Max Dude! (okay, I added the "To the max dude!" part, but it sounds like it should be there..)
Super Soaker (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyway, my dad built the thing. It has been licensed for use in some non-US prisons for riot control.
http://www.jaycor.com/eme/watcan.htm
as far as small stun equipment, check out the same company's sticky shocker:
http://www.jaycor.com/eme/nlp.htm
Re:Reminds me of... (Score:2, Funny)
20 years old tech (Score:5, Funny)
The Ghostbusters were already doing that 20 years ago...
Re:Just remember... (Score:2)
Do I smell a 'Homeland Security' scam here? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep, that's what I thought, another Homeland Security scam. Nothing to see here. Carry on.
Re:Do I smell a 'Homeland Security' scam here? (Score:3, Insightful)
The whole point of the Small Business Innovation Research awards is to give cash money to people in garages with Ideas. With the express purpose of them spending that money on the idea. Not the marketing, Systems Management, or anything else. Besides these people proba
Re:Do I smell a 'Homeland Security' scam here? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Do I smell a 'Homeland Security' scam here? (Score:3, Insightful)
Nothing much, really. Let's say you have an idea for an improved, ceramic superconducting antenna for all sorts of communications with weapon systems that by their very nature are hard to reach, like missiles and mines (your first idea; you were concerned about mines being turned off at will by the mine-layer after the battle is over).
Your improved antenna can be "weapons grade" in a garage, with the right equipment. In other words, you are just maki
Re:Do I smell a 'Homeland Security' scam here? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Do I smell a 'Homeland Security' scam here? (Score:3, Interesting)
Not even an especially convincing prop at that...
Re:Do I smell a 'Homeland Security' scam here? (Score:4, Informative)
SBIRs had some pretty good PR that mimicked your "[support] people in garages with Ideas" remark, but the reality was that at least for some fields, the RFPs were ghost-written by the companies that were going to win them anyway (when they later "applied").
Just because the Cold War was "over", didn't mean that the aerospace industry welfare system augered in. The incestuous system simply put on a cloak of another layer of deception. The same people still met on the same golf course, at the same bar, and at the same industrial conference, and hammered out the same plans; but now, after being wined and dined, the government officials had to perform one more step of getting the RFP put into some periodic SBIR solicitation. In short, it's the usual corruption.
Also, as far as I know today, SBIRs are still suspiciously prone to approvals under the system of sponsorship
Spending SBIR money on marketing efforts should be a no-no, as you implied, but I wouldn't be surprised at all at how much that occurs.
New Scientist only half scammed (Score:5, Insightful)
The vapourware company was presumably able to get its press release through the editorial board at New Scientist because they already knew that such products were out there, and the reporting is of the "look how soon they are getting it to market" variety.
My 2p's worth: Both proposals seem to have one flaw, at least for military application, for the same reason gas-based weapons have not been popular since the First World War: If the wind changes, the gas can blow back into your own trenches. I guess a quick-minded operator will switch off the current, but it seems risky.
Saved! (Score:4, Interesting)
I think for this purpose... (Score:5, Funny)
In other news........ (Score:5, Funny)
Demonstrators at a protest in the United Kingdom were seen running around with lengths of copper wire trailing across the ground from their trouser-legs.
Re:In other news........ (Score:4, Funny)
When copper wire is outlawed... (Score:2, Interesting)
Heh! That's pretty funny. But if there were such a simple way of countering 'taser' weapons like this, would it be outlawed? There would likely be some legislation against anything that could specically protect you against crowd control.
"You are hereby charged with conspiracy to resist arrest."
Crowd control weapons seem more sinister than 'regular'
Re:When copper wire is outlawed... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:When copper wire is outlawed... (Score:3, Insightful)
It is what I was getting at in an oblique way - they are developing weapons that can be used more casually so that the range of acceptable targets can be widened. Acceptable in this case will usually mean using it on someone who isn't threatening enough to endanger your life or health. And if you're not endangered then the reason for using your weapons is likely to be dubious, e.g. it's politically conveniant.
I too would probably rather be shot with a Taser than an M16
Wel....... (Score:2)
It's about time! (Score:5, Funny)
Potato canon technology is now within reach of the US armed forces.
You want fries with THAT! and THAT! and THAT!
kulakovich
Re:It's about time! (Score:3, Funny)
You want fries with THAT! and THAT! and THAT!
Nothing to laugh at here...that was probably their previous job.
If looks could kill.... (Score:4, Funny)
Do the math... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Do the math... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Do the math... (Score:3, Interesting)
- Oisin
Oh No.... (Score:5, Funny)
Holt Crap! A weapon that will specifically target me in my tin foil hat!
Re:Oh No.... (Score:2)
Look at the uses they're citing -- chilling (Score:5, Insightful)
But the (smaller) gun fires a single shot with a range is limited to 7m, which makes it nearly useless for crowd control, especially in hotspots such as Iraq...
Yeah, I seem to remember a lot of situations in Iraq where there was a crowd rioting, and everything would have been better if only we'd had a stun gun to take them all out at once...
Oh, no, actually that really only applies from Saddam Hussein's POV. Take out your crowd of demonstrators, you know? The insurgency in Iraq has been made up largely of well-timed attacks against weak points. They're looking for the spots where we're not vigilant. If we knew where they'd be next, we could use a stun gun I guess... But we don't.
This is a weapon designed to use in case of protests or riots. What kinds of governments need this sort of weapon? The nearest thing to a potential use I can think of in the US would be the Rodney King verdict riots, maybe -- and would you want that? Would you want the LAPD to have this weapon?
Re:Look at the uses they're citing -- chilling (Score:5, Funny)
This is a weapon designed to use in case of protests or riots. What kinds of governments need this sort of weapon?
Any country hosting rowdy soccer fans, maybe?
Re:Look at the uses they're citing -- chilling (Score:5, Interesting)
I do. Civilians attacking troops with deadly weapons (knives, thrown rocks etc.). At the moment they have three choices:
- Fire back with lethal weapons. Kill civilians.
- Don't fire back. Die.
- Try to defend yourself with hand-to-hand combat. Possibly get injured, possibly get accused of brutality.
An area effect stun weapon would allow them to disable the protesters (who may well have real grievances, but who are currently a danger to themselves and others) without causing loss of life. Would you rather that they fired into a crowd?This is a weapon designed to use in case of protests or riots. What kinds of governments need this sort of weapon?
Take 5,000 peaceful protesters. Add a sprinkling of drunk or over-psyched individuals. Watch your peaceful protest turn into a bloodbath as fights break out and others get trampled by those trying to escape. How would you suggest the police deal with this situation? Being able to knock everyone out and then sort them out later seems a lot better than the kind of tragedies that these things often degenerate into.
Would you want the LAPD to have this weapon?
You don't want them to have non-lethal weapons, but you're happy with them carrying guns?
Re:Look at the uses they're citing -- chilling (Score:3, Insightful)
heartless pscyho-criminals like the ones the U.S. War Machine is producing
Whoah, stop right there. Got any evidence to back that up? A half-dozen prison guards out of 135,000 soldiers does not constitute general psychosis.
Next you're going to start shouting "Baby Killers!" and spitting on troops in uniform. We've been there, and it's not a good place to be.
The people in the US military are overwhelmingly reasonable and decent. There are bad apples, how can there not be? But don't use them as an
Re:Look at the uses they're citing -- chilling (Score:3, Interesting)
Like the ones driving harmlessly by, who get dragged out of trucks and beaten severely and end up in critical condition.
Or the Korean store owners who got vanadlized 24/7 during the rioting.
Thank God welfare payday came up and they all stopped protesting and went to sit somberly in line.
LAPD, Yes... (Score:4, Insightful)
Any non-lethal means given to the police to subdue a dangerous suspect or suspects should be available.
RIOTs are clearly one area where large scale non-lethal intrevention is warranted. It would not be a violation of Freedom of speech or similar non-sense arguments. If a large group is violently breaking the law then give the police a means to control them.
Whats worse, being stunned or gased? Hell I think stunning may be useful compared to water hoses and rubber bullets.
Its all about context.
Re:Look at the uses they're citing -- chilling (Score:3, Insightful)
Having a stun gun would give the soldier a much more attractive third option. Even if the human shield gets hit too, no permanent damage.
Deja vu ? (Score:2)
I wonder if someone can resolve a problem I have about this article. I have a vague memory about someone in the early 20th century building just such a UV taser. It was either Alexander Graham Bell or Tesla, though I think it in fact was Bell. I know Bell worked on a UV beam to successfully send sound directly to a remote human ear without a receiving device via modulated UV intensity, but I think he also worked on a taser thingy. Anyone know ?
Next gen. Non Lethal weapons (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeay, right. Cos' a jolt that'll put you down and twitching isn't going to stop a weak heart, or mess up a pacemaker.
It's like the pulsed "non-lethal" laser - the first shop vapourises a small section of the target's surface , and the next ignites the cloud of gases. On low power it knocks people down with mild burns(hope it didn't hit your face), on high it chews through brick walls.
Why are these so bad? Simple - by the simple act of labelling these as non-lethal the authorities greatly increase their ability to use them in all sorts of situations.
After all, a "democratic" government that authorised use of automatic weapons on a rioting crowd would have a few questions to answer - But hey, CS gas, Rubber bullets, tasers are all fine...
Boo boo in Iraq with sticky guns (Score:2)
1.) hit them in the face and they suffocate
2.) the dang things gummed up all the time...duh.
The ultra low frequency sound cannon worked very very well, however (makes an entire crowd have to go poo RIGHT NOW...very effective for dispersal) and it is cheap. A tuned tube, some gaseous fuel and a spark plug basically.
Re:Next gen. Non Lethal weapons (Score:3, Funny)
Repressive Govenments Rejoice!! (Score:5, Insightful)
No longer will your govenment have to put up with protestors! Unruly tree-hugging anti-capitalists will stumble away even more confused than when they came in! But why stop there!
The mass tesla cannon(tm) can halt all kinds of protest! Even mass protestations against the president can be easily quashed in mid whine! Police forces can quickly and efficiently deal with dissenters without sparking media attendtion!
Coupled with new digital censorship, your government will now have the power to make sure the "Right" kind of society exists in your country!
Order today!
Re:Repressive Govenments Rejoice!! (Score:2)
Ohh, the agony! (Score:3, Funny)
Police forces can quickly and efficiently deal with dissenters without sparking media attendtion!
Ouch. With puns like this, governments don't need stun guns.
Re:Repressive Govenments Rejoice!! (Score:2)
-1, no [sarcasm] tags
but thanks all the same.
How it works (Score:5, Informative)
Of course, you still need to hike around a whopping big capacitor bank to have this work over any reasonable distance, and the repeat rate of fire would probably be lousy since the capacitors would have to be recharged....
Effective Range -lt 9 feet! (Score:2, Funny)
Obviously this is real. If it were a fake story, they wouldn't have included this amazing piece of info. 9 feet? I could probably throw my 70 lb dog that far!
Re:Effective Range -lt 9 feet! (Score:4, Funny)
More Star Trek technology... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:More Star Trek technology... (Score:2)
Re:More Star Trek technology... (Score:3, Insightful)
If they can't keep their terminology accurate, how can we take this seriously?
Googled (Score:5, Informative)
Anderson, Indiana, will be one of the first companies to market
another type of wireless weapon. Instead of using fibres, the $9000
Close Quarters Shock Rifle projects an ionised gas, or plasma,
towards the target, producing a conducting channel. It will also
interfere with electronic ignition systems and stop vehicles.
"We will be able to fire a stream of electricity like water out of
a hose at one or many targets in a single sweep," claims XADS
president Peter Bitar.
Solid-state lasers
The gun has been designed for the US Marine Corps to use for crowd
control and security purposes and is due out in 2005. It is based
on early, unwieldy technology and has a range of only three metres,
but an operator can debilitate multiple targets by sweeping it
across them for "as long as there is an input power source," says
Bitar.
XADS is also planning a more advanced weapon which it hopes will
have a range of 100 metres or more. Instead of firing ionised gas,
it will probably use a powerful laser to ionise the air itself. The
idea has been around for decades, says LaVerne Schlie, a laser
expert at the US Air Force Research Lab in Kirtland, New Mexico.
It has only become practical with advances in high-power solid-state
lasers.
"Before, it took a laser about the size of two trucks," says Schlie.
"Now we can do it with something that fits on a tabletop."
The laser pulse must be very intense, but can be brief. So the
makers of the weapons plan to use a UV laser to fire a 5-joule pulse
lasting just 0.4 picoseconds - equating to a momentary power of
more than 10 million megawatts.
This intense pulse - which is said not to harm the eyes - ionises
the air, producing long, thread-like filaments of glowing plasma
that can be sustained by repeating the pulse every few milliseconds.
This plasma channel is then used to deliver a shock to the victims
similar to a Taser's 50,000-volt, 26-watt shock.
The Power Lead (Score:5, Funny)
The article forgot to mention... (Score:3, Funny)
Here are the real next gen weapons (Score:2)
This is Horrible (Score:2)
fake or not? (Score:5, Interesting)
1) In the picture, the "soldier" doesn't look older than 14
2) The "soldier"'s shirt is not tucked in, nor are there any insignia on the shirt. A definite no-no.
3) The "soldier" is not wearing combat boots, nor are his pants tucked into the boots. Another no-no for real soldiers.
4) The "weapon" definately looks like a paper tube wrapped in gift wrap. Additionally, whatever that spring thing is at the end of the tube looks rusty. Call me a sticker but methinks that a weapon that shoots electricity would not have a rusty thing at the end.
Now here's why I think this could be real, just incredibly, incredibly stupid looking:
1) WHOIS indicates [register.com] that the website has been registered since 1997. While not entirely unplausible, it seems unlikely that for just a joke someone would have registered the website that long ago, and would have reregistered it.
2) A Google search [google.com] show some interesting things. Like the Pete Bitar who is the president/register/etc. is VP of American Aviation [americanav...ompany.com] where his bio mentions this xtremeads thing. A little bizarre that a professional company would mention a fake project for the bios of their personnel.
3) The google search also found an article from the Inside Indiana Business [insideindi...siness.com] that mentions the company and the president. Once again, it seems unlikely this guy could fool that many people. Although not entirely unplausible.
Anyways, those are my feelings, what do you all think?
It's already been done by a LEGIT company (Score:2)
HSVT [hsvt.org] last posted a news item on their site regarding a "tetanizing beam weapon" in 2000.
It uses two lasers (not one) to create two ionized pathways through air which are then used to conduct tuned AC; ou choose the power level and frequency which can result in anything from 'lock up skeletal muscles' through 'create excruciating pain' to 'instant death'.
Of course, they have yet to shrink it down to a man-portable size, which is why there haven't been any more press releases.
Reason New Scientist picked it up (Score:2)
The paper version I was reading not two hours ago makes the important observation that these devices that subject the human body to high voltages are known to be safe, right?
Uh, no, actually. There's not much safety data on them. Probably on the lack of willing participents in safty trials. There are, however, 40-odd docummented cases of injuries from tasers, and one induced miscarriage. And that's a single target weapon, used relativly precisly. (For example,
Location of the company (Score:2, Informative)
ionized gas? (Score:2)
Alternate business model (Score:2)
Very short range... (Score:3, Insightful)
If you think 20 feet is long range, then the first prototype is likely to be about 10 feet or so, or has extremely limited power/time. It likely doesn't carry its own power supply.
But that doesn't mean the technology isn't viable, it just means that it needs a ton of development work and will probably be very limited in its capabilities.
Rubber bullets, tear gas, fire hoses, etc will probably still have a broader applicability to most situations. Either that or the other alternative weapons such as the sonic or light weapons that cause dizziness and nausea.
Power is always an issue, though. Anything that doesn't focus its power on a spot the size of a dime at 300 feet is, due the the laws of physics, going to require immense amounts of power - not hand carryable. Possibly backpack for short sessions.
-Adam
Saw this before... (Score:2)
"Y-Wings! Disable their shields!" (Score:2)
What the article does not say... (Score:4, Interesting)
"I'm sorry, our nonlethal line is only available to law enforcement sir. Would you be interested in our line of top quality firearms?" Lethal force is only for civilians... what a time to be alive!
(5 mod points and I had to comment.)
Is it just me ... (Score:2, Funny)
Not particularly mobile.
Maybe GI Joe there can carry one of these [briggspowerproducts.com] in his backpack.
Even more trusting... (Score:2)
Now that I know the phone number is real:
Geneva Jenratte, (765) 641-9865, 3021 Nichol Ave, Anderson, IN 46011
Cops testing techniques (Score:2)
Enough to get a contract (Score:2)
That should be all they need to get past the demonstration phase for getting a government contract. When I was a kid, my dad brought home the stinger missile mockup that the Army had been using to show off to the Saudi government. It was made from cardboard and coat-hanger wire with a poster tube where the missile should be.
Legit? (Score:4, Informative)
XTREME ADS (ALTERNATIVE DEFENSE SYSTEMS)
1508 E. 7th St.
Anderson, IN 46012
Phone: (765) 724-2226
PI: Mr. Pete Bitar
Topic#: NAVY 02-121
Awarded: 25NOV02
Title:Personnel Neuromuscular Disruptor Incapacitation System
Abstract:The STUNBEAM will effectively be proven to be the world's first available "wireless Taser", using electromagnetic energy to create ion "streams" which conduct a static charge which can disrupt neuromuscular control of any human or comparable animal target, at an output of between 25,000 and 100,000 volts with extremely low amperage. The weapon can also be used to disrupt electronic devices. Current technology already has proven results at very short, point-blank ranges of between five and ten feet. This Phase 1 work will deal with the ion streams themselves in the areas of columniation, tracking, limiting scattering effects, and static pulse conductivity in order to increase the range and controllability of a larger-scale device to between 50 and 300 feet. Since work has already been done in this area by Xtreme, one of the final results of the Option portion of this Phase 1 SBIR will be to build and deliver a working proof of concept device with a range of at least 10 feet, which will be useful in close-quarter scenarios as are common with the use of "Tasers". Xtreme has the technical ability, facility, and willingness to forge ahead in taking this technology to the incredible potential it has. The benefits of this system are unlimited. The unit will stun, not kill, its target, allowing for hostages to be rescued easily from almost any hostage situation, and criminals or enemy combatants to be captured, not killed, in a variety of military and law enforcement scenarios. This system will be easy to use and will be portable. Units can be sold commercially to police as well as to homeowners for effective, non-lethal self defense. Other applications of the massive ion generation of related devices can be used, among other things, in air purification and medical sterilization.
alternate forms of weaponry (Score:4, Interesting)
Here [hektik.org]
NOTE: WE SELL ONLY TO... (Score:3, Funny)
Also Tony Hawk, Dave Mirra, Bam Margera, the good people at Right Guard, and that hottie from that show about all the videogames.
"Hey baby, my cannon goes nine feet and can shut off a Volkswagen. Can I see your b00biez!?"
Lightning proof fashion statement (Score:2)
On the show one of the presenters had a German powerplant blast him with a few minutes worth of lightning. It was pretty cool, but I can't find the pictures.
Re:Easy (Score:2)
At last somebody who thinks! Yes how about some AL foil in you hat and etc. Shorting the guys out might just be a bit interesting. Or how about some fine mesh wires in the clothes like thin gold wires. I think the guys on the other end just are bucking for a surprise. If they try these devices counter measures may happen that they don't like.
Personally I would love to see a demonstration where the (Police hated) crowd drives forward to the police lines only to fall back when chased and emitting crazy
If Google is to be believed.... (Score:5, Informative)
Source: http://www.americanaviationcompany.com/staff.htm
Still sounds dubious to me. The picture of the stun gun is hilarious.
Re:Free email (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Xtreme, eh? (Score:2)
Re:T3 Magazine (Score:2)
Re:This is worrying... (Score:2, Informative)
all you will have to worry about is the 50,000 volt shock it is going to hit you with... you may be toast but your eyes will be ok to survey your charred corpse
Remember your physics, voltage doesn't kill, amps do. Besides I believe that standard police issue tasers already administer 50,000 volts over the wires for a period of 5 seconds. The only deaths that arise from this are because the heart fails to restart, usually because the victim was on some kind of drug that inhibited the process. (think co
Re:This is worrying... (Score:2)
Death is an unfortunate side affect at times. Remember, you can gun someone down with a
For some reason, I find being blind a tad bit better off then being dead.
Re:defense (Score:2)
Re:Where will it end? (Score:2)
Re:Laptop sized? (Score:2)
Re:Good for them.. (Score:2)
Re:I'd rather have this than (Score:2)
The laser isn't suppose to hurt the person, it's only designed to momentarily ionize the air so that the subsequent electric arc follows a path to the target. The arc is what does the hurting.
Re:They can't afford a serverver. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Wrath of God (Score:2)
Actually, making a huge fluffy-cloud shaped dirigible that could dispense lightning would certainly be a FUNNY way to maim/kill your foes... I'd be more impressed if it could also store large amounts of locust, frogs, and hail for droppage as well.
What we really need to build, though, is a giant floating marble thrown with a giant anamatronic Zeus to throw thunderbolts. Much better.
He's got the right haircut. (Score:2)
Also, his pants are not bloused into his boots.
Are those zippers on the pockets on the front of those pants?
Now, his uniform is nice and new, but the eyelets of his boots are shiney. They eyelets should be black. New uniform & old boots maybe?
And is that a WHITE tee-shirt he's wearing? It should be a BROWN tee-shirt.
And his shirt is buttoned up too high.
Re:I don't get it? (Score:3, Insightful)
'Laptop sized' power unit apparently stuck in belt/pocket
Incorrect firing stance for a large weapon (knees locked, stance too narrow)
Power lead dragging ground, should be coiled and tucked
Uniform sleeves too short
sleeves left loose, not buttoned down
Pants cut too long, and not bloused to boots as mentioned above
Incorrect t-shirt under a field jacket
Gun strap too tight, should be resting at the hip to allow a more relaxed grip and faster sweeping when firing... the way it's resting, he wou
Pete called me back! (Score:2, Interesting)
Earlier, I called the number and when it was picked up, I chickened out and hung up. Well, Pete called back and did a great (hilarious) job of convincing me that this company is indeed real.
Nice talking to you, Pete.