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The RIAA's Push for an Audio Broadcast Flag

Posted by michael on Tue May 25, 2004 01:35 PM
from the monopoly-protection dept.
aaronsorkin writes "The Recording Industry Association of America has discovered that digital radio broadcasts can be copied and redistributed over the Internet, and so it is pushing the FCC to adopt an audio broadcast flag, which would likely prevent users from sending copyrighted radio programs over the Internet. But it could also hamstring other legitimate uses by preventing a digital radio program from leaving the device on which it was recorded. The FCC has initiated a notice of inquiry (pdf), typically a step leading to formal rule-making. The public may submit comments to the FCC between June 16 and July 16. A lobbyist friend sent me copies of the private correspondence on the subject between RIAA president Cary Sherman and Consumer Electronics Association president Gary Shapiro, and Cryptome just posted them here (pdf) and here (pdf). Yes, they're legit. Mindjack just posted an article I wrote on the subject titled, 'Will Digital Radio Be Napsterized?'"

Related Stories

[+] Politics: Audio Broadcast Flag Introduced in Congress 200 comments
Declan McCullagh writes "We found out in mid-2004 that the RIAA was lobbying the FCC for an audio version of the broadcast flag. But because a federal appeals court slapped down the FCC's video version last year, the RIAA needs to seek formal authorization from Congress. That process finally began today when the audio flag bill was introduced. It would hand the FCC the power to set standards and regulate digital and satellite radio receivers, and RIAA Chairman Mitch Bainwol says it strikes "a balance that's good for the music, good for the fans, and good for business." The text of the bill is available online."
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  • Since when does (Score:5, Interesting)

    by The Analog Kid (565327) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:36PM (#9250711)
    the RIAA control radio programs?
    • Re:Since when does (Score:5, Insightful)

      by riptide_dot (759229) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:38PM (#9250749)
      If the FCC lets it dictate their policy, then whenever that happens...

      Until then, Radio content is still regulated by the FCC - an equally biased organization nonetheless...
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Since when does by Wesley Felter (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:43PM
    • Re:Since when does (Score:5, Insightful)

      by jdunlevy (187745) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:45PM (#9250844)
      (http://www.speakeasy.org/~dunl/public/)
      he RIAA control radio programs?
      Since they found out they actually can control webcasting. That was a crucial slide down the slippery slop, and the RIAA will see how far down they can push us.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Since when does by CarrionBird (Score:3) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:00PM
    • Re:Since when does by snyps (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:25PM
    • For quite some time I believe. by OS24Ever (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @04:14PM
    • Re:Since when does by MacWiz (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @09:32PM
    • Mod parent down. by Bobdoer (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:47PM
    • Re:Song of the piracy apologist (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Anonvmous Coward (589068) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:53PM (#9251803)
      "The entire piracy movement is an attempt to get things for free"

      Yes, that's the piracy side of it. There's still a very large legitimate user side to it as well. Your attempt to group those together demonstrates that you really don't understand what you have obviously spent so much time writing about. Here's an example:

      "That has nothing to do with piracy. You don't have the right to pirate music because you believe $11.99 is "ridiculously priced." Even iTunes is currently .99 a song."

      An album is $12 whether you like every single song on it or not. I happen to know for a fact you have at least one CD that has precicesly one song on it you like. $12 for that one song isn't ridiculously overpriced? Face facts, the driving force between making the $.99 song available is because people 'pirated', as you call it.

      Pardon me for thinking you are full of shit. Seriously, if it's all about 'getting something for nothing' like you have stated, then $400 iPods wouldn't be flying off store shelves. iTunes wouldn't have sold millions of songs. Heck, you'd probably be paying up to $20 per album. Go explore the other side a little while before blindly calling honest people pirates.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Song of the piracy apologist by HybridJeff (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:23PM
    • Re:Song of the piracy apologist (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ichimunki (194887) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:56PM (#9252568)
      What a load. Immoral? Prove it using any established moral code. Is it in the Bible? How about the Q'uran? Or the Torah? The Baghavad-Gita? Egyptian mythology? Zoroastrianism? In the precolonial social mores and religious traditions of any of the five hundred various Indian nations native to the American continent? Does Ralph Waldo Emerson or Henry David Thoreau come out against it? Does the Buddha once speak of it? Is it mentioned anywhere in thousands of Zen Koans? Are there any tribal religions in Africa that cast aspersion on copying stories, songs, and artwork? Did the Inca and Maya curse the names of those who infringed copyright? Did Plato or Socrates or Pythagoras or Aristotle teach at length about this subject? Well? Huh?

      Fact is, the very notion that songs, stories, ideas, images, and all the other ephemeralities restricted by "copyright" were for the bulk of human history passed along and shared only by active infringement by those who carried these works along for us later. Without copying we would have no folk songs, no scriptures, a great deal fewer plays, stories, paintings, buildings, inventions. Our cultural traditions would have lasted only as long as the material on which the first author ever fixed them-- in most cases less than 100 years.

      Do you anti-copiers ever decry the vast body of commerce that exists in making copies of "public domain" works? Of course not. Ripping off the past is a hobby for the media cartel. Look at Disney with "The Little Mermaid", "Cinderella", "Snow White", "The Hunchback of Notre Dame", "Fantasia", etc. Look at movie releases like "Troy" and "Romeo & Juliet". Look at how often Beethoven, Bach, Tchaikovsky, and countless others have their works "stolen" and reused in contexts they could never have dreamed of. The same for Michelangelo, DaVinci, Monet, Manet. Where is your outrage at this?
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Song of the piracy apologist by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @04:54PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Another useless "feature" (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:36PM (#9250724)
    Flags are easily ignored, and if the stream is sent out in-tact it's a non issue anyway. When will they learn?
    • Re:Another useless "feature" (Score:5, Interesting)

      by pragma_x (644215) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:56PM (#9250994)
      (Last Journal: Wednesday December 08 2004, @01:13PM)
      Flags are easily ignored, and if the stream is sent out in-tact it's a non issue anyway. When will they learn?

      Yes, it will probably be easy to circumvent, as is true with many other copy protection schemes.

      But what this AC fails to realize here is that by instituting a legitimate 'copy-protection feature' (albeit very flimsy) it serves only as a legal lightning rod for copyright violation lawsuits. Furthermore, it bolsters the media's image of attempting to protect what it has, lest someone contests the issue that it more or less 'looks' like they don't care who violates copyright for radio broadcasts. Also the latter may not be much more of a deterrent, but I'm sure the members of the RIAA have shareholders (not just customers) to think about too.

      Think of it this way: how much easier would it be to circumvent being fined, or contest and reduce those fines, for speeding if the limit wasn't even posted? The RIAA is now just trying to put the signs up.

      IMO, if this goes through, the FCC/RIAA will be able to say that people have 'willfully broken/violated a protection measure' rather than just saying 'they ignored copyright law'. (DMCA anyone?)

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Another useless "feature" by snyps (Score:3) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:29PM
      • Getting rich off the law (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Simonetta (207550) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @05:56PM (#9253813)
        The way to get rich off the law is pass a law (bribe and blackmail the lawmakers) that makes illegal something that a large minority of people do. The majority of people will support the law because they don't engage in the particular activity.

        Then use the fact that a large minority of people do it and continue to do it despite its illegality to raise the penalities for breaking this law very high. Again the majority of people will go along with this because they don't engage in this particular activity.

        Use the high penalities to encourage a system of bounty hunters who get to share in the enormous fines that are brought against the many people (a large minority works best) who are found disobeying this law when they snitch their neighbors to the authorities for disobeying this law. Make sure the activity that is made illegal is common and accepted by a large minority of people. The best size of this minority is about 15 percent of the population; a larger percentage and you run the risk of a successful revolt and a smaller percentage doesn't bring in enough money to make the whole business worthwhile.

        Then just sit back and let the money pile in from legal fees and fines.

        In the USA, the stategy worked great on Black people (African-Americans) until the 1960's. It worked great on gays and other sexual minorities until the late 1970's. It still brings in hundreds of millions of dollars from the marijuana community every year to the police and the lawyers.

        Now it about to be applied to the recorded music-lover community, starting with random students and working up from there to the general middle-class.

        Just one more permanent American extortion money-making scheme. As soon as one passes, another takes its place. Americans talk a lot of trash about freedom, but when it comes to using the law to extort money from minorities, be they racial, sexual, life-style, and now digital media minorities, the dollar always comes first.
        [ Parent ]
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Foolish. by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:37PM
    • Re:Foolish. by stanmann (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:03PM
    • Re:Foolish. by No Such Agency (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:06PM
      • Re:Foolish. by stanmann (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:17PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Foolish. by EpsCylonB (Score:3) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:37PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • LOL by dot_borg (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:38PM
  • Evil bit... (Score:5, Funny)

    by b.e.n.n.y_b.o.y_1234 (652631) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:38PM (#9250748)
    (http://www.willcoxonline.com/)
    Why don't they just set the 'evil' bit?!
  • easy to bypass (Score:5, Insightful)

    by eisenbud (708663) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:39PM (#9250764)
    How lossy is hooking up the line out of your digital radio to your computer's sound input? Obviously you wouldn't want to do that over and over again, but I bet after one iteration of digital to analog to digital you'd still have very good sound quality. So this won't even work terribly well to "prevent piracy".
    • Re:easy to bypass by nkh (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:45PM
    • Re:easy to bypass by forand (Score:3) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:51PM
    • Re:easy to bypass by Air-conditioned cowh (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:12PM
    • Re:easy to bypass by 1gkn1ght (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:15PM
    • Hard to bypass by nurb432 (Score:3) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:36PM
    • Re:easy to bypass (Score:5, Informative)

      by Entropius (188861) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:46PM (#9251708)
      I'll answer that question: not very lossy at all. You probably don't want to do it on an onboard sound card, but any decent PCI (or even USB) sound board ($~40) will provide for this purpose perfect recording.

      This is compounded by the fact that radio signals (as someone above pointed out) go through a process called "dynamic range compression", which basically makes the soft bits louder and the loud bits softer. This does a couple of things: 1) it makes setting recording levels for FM recording a snap, since it's all close to the same amplitude, 2) it makes sound card fidelity even less important, since you don't have a huge dynamic range to deal with*, 3) it screws up the quality anyway, so who cares if your card puts a -50 dB noise signal in there?

      (Comment about dynamic range compression: I suppose boosting soft bits of the audio helps to raise the signal-to-noise ratio for weak FM signals--otherwise very soft passages would get lost in static. Even with range compression the local classical station has issues with this.However, wouldn't it be trivial to do the range compression, then broadcast the dynamic shift on a sideband channel? Then the FM receiver could reconstruct the original dynamic from the (compressed) signal and the sideband dynamic indication. That would be the best of both worlds... and would be backwards-compatible since older FM receivers would just get the compressed signal, same as they do now.)

      You're not going to get audiophile-quality sound off an FM broadcast. This isn't the fault of the recording equipment, the radio receiver, or the FM transmission process; it's what they do to the signal before it hits the transmitter. This is a good thing for this purpose though, since it means even crappy hardware doesn't mess up the recording!

      *Some of the most challenging signals to record accurately are those with both very loud and very soft periods. The recording gain has to be set low enough to accomodate the loud passages. Then, the combination of the low gain with the low intrinsic volume of the soft bits makes for a very low signal--which, on bad hardware, can be comparable to the noise floor. But we don't care about this on the radio, since it's *all* loud.
      [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Introductions... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Aneurysm9 (723000) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:39PM (#9250767)
    Fair use, meet the circular file. Circular file, meet fair use.
  • Flag (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nkh (750837) <red.geta@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:40PM (#9250774)
    And the broadcast flag is automatically cleared when the packet leaves american computers? We should tell Cisco to put this new feature in their routers.
  • Remember DAT? (Score:5, Informative)

    by PeeAitchPee (712652) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:40PM (#9250777)
    (http://www.civilwarflorida.com/)
    They did this about 15 years ago with what was the last promising tape-based format, and ended up killing the medium for pretty much everyone but pro audio studios. Wonder how much potential revenue they missed out on w/ that fiasco?
  • Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Gothmolly (148874) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:40PM (#9250778)
    where the villains' scheme depended on the "fact" that no matter what type of regulatory and taxation hell the industries were put under, they'd still produce, and this provide power to the very people who were strangling them.

    How long until people just give up and listen to local music? Leave the RIAA to the sheep, and the sheep to the RIAA, and the sheep will get what they deserve. Remember, the only reason that ??AA organizations have any influence is that people buy their stuff. You have two options: buy their stuff, but don't complain, or don't buy their stuff, and try and support alternative markets - local bands, live concerts, low power FM, etc.
    • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by SirSlud (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:59PM
    • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged (Score:5, Informative)

      by Wylfing (144940) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:00PM (#9251038)
      (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Friday December 23 2005, @06:30PM)
      You have two options: buy their stuff, but don't complain, or don't buy their stuff, and try and support alternative markets - local bands, live concerts, low power FM, etc.

      This is undoubtedly what the long term future holds. However, for the next 50 years, if you don't buy their stuff outright, they'll just get a law passed under which the government collects money from you on their behalf. You will pay the RIAA whether you want to or not.

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by pseudochaotic (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:30PM
      • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by Richard_at_work (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:33PM
      • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by BillyBlaze (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:42PM
        • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by Jardine (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:51PM
          • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by ipjohnson (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:22PM
            • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged (Score:5, Informative)

              by Jardine (398197) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @05:13PM (#9253397)
              (http://burntheflag.ca/)
              I've heard that rumor floating around but I'd like to see the proof that you can infact copy the CD legally. I know they charge a blanket tax but I'd be very suprised if infact the CRIA has given away the right to prosecut you.

              Do you have any links to prove this (and no slashdot opinions don't count)?


              How about Part 8 [justice.gc.ca] of the Canadian Copyright Act? Plenty of legal speak in it, but the part that matters here is this section:

              80. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of

              (a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording,

              (b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or

              (c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied

              onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording. (emphasis mine)

              The section after that sets up the levy on CDRs, tapes, etc. If you want it explained in something other than lawyer-speak, try this FAQ [neil.eton.ca].
              [ Parent ]
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by Anonvmous Coward (Score:3) Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:00PM
      • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by RickHunter (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:02PM
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:00PM
    • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged (Score:4, Insightful)

      by tetsuji (572812) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:01PM (#9251047)
      (http://www.crags.net/)
      How long until people just give up and listen to local music? Leave the RIAA to the sheep, and the sheep to the RIAA, and the sheep will get what they deserve.

      Too many sheep.

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by illuminata (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:06PM
    • Re: Third option by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:08PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by digrieze (Score:3) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:31PM
    • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by 680x0 (Score:3) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:38PM
    • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by Shuck (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:40PM
    • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by cft_128 (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:49PM
    • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged (Score:5, Insightful)

      You have two options: buy their stuff, but don't complain, or don't buy their stuff, and try and support alternative markets...

      It has probably been five years since I bought a CD for myself, yet I continue to rent movies on a regular basis... While the RIAA has been busy "fighting" the demons of piracy, I've been losing interest in their material.

      A few years ago I heard a friend of mine (and his band) sing a rendition of a popular song. What impressed me most was that this guy was in his early 20's, and he sounded exactly like the CD. The rest of his family is into music; he's been raised with it his entire life. Though he wasn't a music major, he had developed a talent which far exceed a lot of the trash that gets put on CD's today.

      And he's just one. In college, I did sound mixing for some of the music majors I knew, and even the "B" student music majors could make most of the pop-40 singers sound like amateurs. There's a lot of talent out there - good talent - and the majority of it is never heard. In fact, the smarter ones stay away from the RIAA because they've figured out that the draconian terms of an RIAA-member recording contract leave the musician with no room to actually earn a decent living.

      But after hearing a few of my friends perform, my tastes in music have changed. I've been exposed to real music - music with feeling, purpose, and beauty. I can't go back to listening to pop-40, because it sounds so assinine by comparison.

      The RIAA fails to understand that people are beginning to realize that listening to any RIAA music comes with a lawsuit risk. How am I supposed to relax and have a good time listening to music if I'm worried that a convenience copy could land me in court? How can I kick back and relax if I have to think about "licensing issues" every time I play a song or rip a CD?

      The RIAA isn't losing sales because of Napster, or Gnutella, or file-sharing software. They are losing sales because those of us who really appreciate music find it appalling that a musician (or his representative) would sue a fan. This completely destroys a person's ability to enjoy music. It doesn't matter even if I am completely legit - the fact that I'm listening to the voice of someone with a mean streak spoils any listening pleasure I might otherwise have had.

      And strangely, now that we've gotten off the CD-sales bandwagon and discovered that listening to real people making real music is more enjoyable, we aren't going back. We're spending more money than ever on music - cover charges, concert tickets, etc... but the RIAA is getting less and less of it.

      And that's why the RIAA is mad. People are spending more money than ever on music, and they feel like they've been cut out of the deal. Truth is, they made money selling what never belonged to them in the first place, and now they're mad because they are losing their ability to exploit the talent of others for their own financial gain.

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:Reminds me of Atlas Shrugged by node 3 (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @06:08PM
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • FUCK RADIO (Score:5, Insightful)

    by LocalH (28506) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:41PM (#9250787)
    (http://www.s2beta.com/)
    I don't even listen to radio anyway. Of course, I'll still be arguing against the broadcast flags anytime it comes up, but I haven't listened to the radio in, hell, I can't remember how long.

    Besides, I doubt digital terrestrial radio will take off, same way that digital terrestrial television has not taken off - the few people watching terrestrial DTV are those with HD sets.

    If an industry doesn't see fit to give me my legal rights, then I won't use their product, and I will do my damndest to make sure other people don't use their product either.

    I resent being told that I can't do something because I *might* use it for illegal purposes. Even if what I'm actually *planning* to do is fully legal.

    And, just like virtually every other protection system out there, it WILL be broken. The only one I know of that HASN'T been broken publically is digital cable - and I feel it's been broken, but just not revealed to the public yet.
    • I don't think I've listened to any radio but NPR (for news) for about a year now. Otherwise, I ask some of my friends what they like and give it a listen, then buy it from one of the online stores (like the iTunes store).

      Otherwise, radio for me died when I turned it on, heard the same songs I had heard 12 months before played every 2 hours, turned it off for 2 months, turned it on (same songs from 2 months ago every few hours), turned it off for 4 months, and repeat.

      I figure another 8 months and I'll see if anything new is playing. Till then, forget it.
      [ Parent ]
    • Re:FUCK RADIO by stanmann (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:57PM
    • Re:FUCK RADIO by aaronsorkin (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @04:16PM
  • Little Slow, here's a mirror (Score:3, Informative)

    by karmatic (776420) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:42PM (#9250815)
    Here [t28.net].
  • RIAA wants a pay, not play button (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Fiz Ocelot (642698) <baelzharon@nOsPam.gmail.com> on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:44PM (#9250836)
    "Also, as noted in your letter, there is no content "license" at issue because RIAA members have no licensable right that could be a basis for imposing limitations on free broadcasts."

    Looks like this may be a lot harder for the RIAA than mp3 issues to me.

  • bullshit by An0maly (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:44PM
  • Fair enough (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nacturation (646836) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:45PM (#9250845)
    (Last Journal: Thursday May 24 2007, @01:08AM)
    This may be an unpopular opinion here, but I don't see anything wrong with this. Radio is there for you to listen to and enjoy. The music is being broadcast to you at no charge (excepting commercial-free services like XM and Sirius) and the broadcaster sets the licensing terms. Naturally, the broadcaster needs to comply with the licensing terms of the copyright owner, represented typically by the RIAA.

    So what rights are being infringed here? Unless you're paying a radio station to broadcast your own music to you, you are not in posession of a license to the music. So fair use in terms of copying to your computer, etc. doesn't apply as you haven't purchased anything. One could make the argument from a research standpoint and being able to record samples for the purposes of critique, etc. This would easily be fulfilled by plugging a jack into the headphone slot and recording the non-digital output to tape or via line-in on a computer and you'd still get better quality than any non-digital radio station that exists today.

    Honestly, I don't see an issue here.
  • covered under normal broadcast flag? by musikit (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:45PM
  • Uhm, and so what does a flag do? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:45PM
  • This will just keep getting worse by Quixadhal (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:46PM
  • watermark? by Chuck Bucket (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:47PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • I like it by L. VeGas (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:47PM
    • Actually... by No Such Agency (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:17PM
  • any digital protection system can be broken, no matter HOW complicated.

    the one way that breaks ALL digital protection systems, and still leaves the content with decent audio, is to go through an analog phase. record from the output of your sound card into another computer via the analog lines, you only lose one analog generation (negligable given how lossy mp3 encoding was on the original content), and get a perfectly rippable copy on the other side with no history of any DRM preserved whatsoever.

    so you DRM bastards: KNOCK IT OFF!

    All DRM does is make the stupid feel empowered, the common person feel condescended to, and the pirates feel bored as to how easy it was to crack it...
    • Re:*sigh* they still don't get one simple fact by Abcd1234 (Score:3) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:20PM
    • Re:*sigh* they still don't get one simple fact by gclef (Score:3) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:25PM
    • by Otto (17870) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:54PM (#9251814)
      (http://ottodestruct.com/)
      You're half right. Tech like water marking can survive a D-A and A-D transitions. And make no mistake, that's the long term goal here. These sorts of "flags" are just the beginning, because they introduce the concept of forcing equipment manufacturers to include enforcement of DRM technologies. It doesn't matter that the current technology is ineffective, what matters is that new hardware *must* support it, by law.

      Once that framework is built into place, newer tech that can survive these conversions gets introduced, and it's easier to push it into the marketplace, because the law says that this sort of thing must be included in consumer hardware. Eventually, you don't have any hardware that will actually record that analog source. It'll all detect the watermark, and refuse to record. Oh, there will be workarounds, but this sort of knowledge is already forbidden for you to pass around, by the DMCA. That's right, it's illegal for you to tell somebody how to bypass a protection mechanism, be it by code or by word of mouth or by t-shirt. The DMCA makes no distinction between these methods.

      And that's their vision of the future. Total control of all media. It's just that simple, really. You want to make a copy for your car? You can't. You want to watch the program later than they air it? Sorry, the broadcaster of the show has decided that you might skip the ads if you did that, so your recorder won't record it. And if you post anywhere telling other people how to fix these "problems" with the equipment they bought, armed guards show up at your residence and take you away and put you in a padded cell and stare at you thru a small window for the rest of your life, because you're an informational terrorist.

      Pretty bleak, but unfortunately I don't think it's all that much of a stretch of the imagination anymore.
      [ Parent ]
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • In other news today ... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Jtheletter (686279) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:48PM (#9250882)
    ...the RIAA began legal filings to sue numerous users of an online news forum collectively known as "slashdotters" for copyright infringement of internal emails.

    The emails, stored in a digital format known as PDF (which the RIAA maintains is yet another tool used exclusively by online hackers and pirates for the sole purpose of stealing IP), while not normally covered by copyright, were in this case earmarked by RIAA president Cary Sherman for use in his new book: Digital Stranglehold - a Step-by-Step Guide to Forcefully Prevent Any Exchange of Audio Information Whatsoever in the New Millenium - or - How to Ram the Buttplug of DRM Further up the American Consumer's Ass.

  • Ive got a flag for the RIAA by Prince Vegeta SSJ4 (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:49PM
  • by TheTXLibra (781128) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:50PM (#9250905)
    (http://vote4libra.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday July 08 2004, @02:27PM)
    Shock Jocks are controlled by the FCC.
    The FCC is controlled by the Supreme Court, which is controlled Bavarian Illuminati.
    RIAA is controlled by Cthulhu.
    RIAA with the assistance of Cthulhu will attempt to control the FCC... and they're bidding tons of megabucks.

    ...let's hope to God they roll an 11 or 12.

    -The Libra
    "You've got no kids, no wife, no job, and you're not in The Tigger Movie!!!"
    - my best friend's son, Gabe, at 5 years old. [everything2.com]
  • When a man is drowning... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tkrotchko (124118) * on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:50PM (#9250906)
    (http://mysite.verizon.net/tkrotchko/)
    ...we say that he goes down for the 3rd time to mean that he used up his chances for life and he's finally going under for good.

    This is really the RIAA and its members going down for the 3rd time.

    What I'm really waiting for is for the sh*t to hit the fan when Joe Six Pack buys his $3K HDTV, and pays Comcast $150 a month for HDTV content and then another $2K for his Digital VCR (or DVD or whatever), and he presses the RECORD button to tape the latest Victoria Secret underwear show, and a message pops up that says "Due to copyright restrictions, you may not record".

    All of the sudden people will understand what people like the EFF have been complaining about for years.

    Right now, congress and the FCC is passing these goofy laws and regulations because there's no downside; broadcast flag? Sure. DRM? Sure. Whatever will keep Hollywood happy.

    But when people begin to complain about losing their ability to do what they do today, people are going to be very unhappy, and that's the stuff that brings people out to vote. Remember, Florida? It only take a few people to tip an entire election.

    DRM on consumer audio in the past has been the death of a new format. I don't think things have changed that much. Unhappy consumers won't buy stuff.

    And if consumers aren't buying TV's, Radio's and Computers because of Hollywood/RIAA lobbying, things will change quickly.
  • The next logical step: (Score:5, Funny)

    by burgburgburg (574866) <splisken06&email,com> on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:50PM (#9250910)
    Memory flag

    All audio/video devices will have to be able to broadcast the memory flag. Only individuals who have had the necessary surgery (elective, not typically covered by insurance) will be able to actually view such content. Depending on the decision of the content provider, the content might almost immediately disappear from a person's memory, be a faint memory driving the repurchase of an opportunity to see/hear it again, or could be lodged so firmly in their brain of the end-user that they will have to pay extra to get rid of it.

    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • They're just now figuring this out? by ManyLostPackets (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:51PM
  • by karmatic (776420) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:54PM (#9250965)
    This is just another failed attempt to excercise control over digital services. It's to be expected - they are convinced it will make them more money in the end, and as such they feel compelled to stop it.

    This technology, like Macrovision (that's not technically digital, but it fits), DVD's CSS, Adobe PDF, Zip File Passwords, iTunes, SDMI, Microsoft Reader, DirecTV, those silly self-destructing DVDs, faulty CD Toc's, autorun-based protection, SecuRom, Game Consoles, LaserLok, and any other number of protection technologies, it will be defeated, broken, or bypassed).

    Hundreds of man-hours, hundreds of millions of dollars in development and marketing, and the only real protection still lying around is simple cryptography (and only when the keys aren't given to users at all, instead of this "hide it in the box, but don't tell anyone" crap).

    The only real reason to be concerned is the "stifiling innovation" issue. What devices, technologies, or uses will I lose because of this? To some extent, it benefits open-source, as open-source software can address markets made smaller by the fact that the only way to use the services the way you want is to break the law.

    However, how many cool gizmos, gadgets, and whatnots haven't been made, thanks to the DMCA etc.?

    Just a little something to think about.
  • Its real easy to break this... by night_flyer (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:55PM
  • Once again RIAA shows us that is simply can't adapt themselves to the new reality of information sharing.

    Internet isn't just a new media, or a new commercial channel. It's also a new and improved way to communicate. For those who want me to be even more clear, it's a new way to share and exchange information.

    The fact is that internet users will, for itself, share information among each other. That's what a communication tool meant to do. And there's nothing RIAA can do that'll will avoid 95% of the world population (US residents are 5% only) sharing information, musing included.

    RIAA must do just like any other group or company around the world when a new technology tries to ruin its buissines, adapt.

    Not adapting itself to the new technological reality, RIAA is opening huge chances of new visionaries company or groups to be successful, being the first in the market and getting ahead even before RIAA can think in any action to avoid it.

    The revolution is in its way. All we can do (including RIAA) is adapt ourselves to it. It's useless to try to stop a train without destroying it.

  • foriegn hardware by greywar (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:57PM
  • OK RIAA, time to fuck off. by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:58PM
  • Thank God for the BBC by Forget4it (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:58PM
  • All your radio... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Lead Butthead (321013) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:59PM (#9251032)
    Consumers: What happen?
    Slash-Dot: Somebody set up us the Broadcast Flag.
    Slash-Dot: We get SUED.
    Consumers: What!
    Slash-Dot: Main screen turn on.
    Consumers: It's You!!
    RIAA: How are you gentlemen!!
    RIAA: All your radio are belong to us.
    RIAA: Your fair use rights are on the way to destruction.
    Consumers: What you say!!
    RIAA: Your rights have no chance to survive make your time.
    RIAA: HA HA HA HA!
    RIAA: Sue you all
    Consumers: You know what you doing.
    RIAA: Landsharks, engage
    Consumers: For great justice.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • At this rate by WormholeFiend (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:01PM
  • likely? by AyeRoxor! (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:01PM
  • If I listen to a song... by midifarm (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:02PM
  • by Fullmetal Edward (720590) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:03PM (#9251063)
    (Last Journal: Thursday June 03 2004, @11:21AM)
    12 year old girl caught singing Britney in the shower. RIAA sue for 17 billion dollars over copyright issues.

    Next on in the future news!
  • Old programs? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by eviljolly (411836) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:03PM (#9251066)
    (Last Journal: Monday October 11 2004, @04:04AM)
    So how are they going to stop us from using older programs to broadcast the media? I don't feel a need to upgrade my shoutcast server just so I can have a radio broadcast flag that rats me out when I'm broadcasting copyrighted music. They would either have to change the way the internet works, or force a new media type on us other than mp3.
  • Why is it.... by d4rkmoon (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:05PM
  • RIAA has always been at it! Remember the tape tax? by COredneck (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:05PM
  • Lets have a digital flag burning by dunsurfin (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:06PM
  • Far be it for me to say... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:06PM
  • This will be easily defeated (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dnamaners (770001) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:07PM (#9251118)
    (Last Journal: Saturday October 20, @10:03PM)
    This may be invasive and annoying but it will not stop the recording. In order for the flag to work all the software will have to be "flag" compliant. So simply the adoption of this will provide either a resurgence of older tools that don't support this "feature" or new softwear that will not support this (or allow it to be turned off) even if mandated by law. Even that NX thing and the flag combined will not stop the recording as it:

    A.) will only be present on new systems so old hardware will still work(how much computer do you need to stream rip any way).

    B.) because as long as you can hear it you can record it. so perhaps the sound will have to be recorded right off the analog output by the very same computer that is playing it, after extracting the ID3 of course.

    C.) if by some magic they make it work and be fool proof people will simply go back to cd ripping and file sharing. By that time the new encrypted networks will be better and harder to sue users of.

    This will only add another teer of complexity and another charge that they can sue the file makers for.

    "FROG!" ..... "I said frog, now jump dammit, jump!" ........"Um boss, it's not working." ...... "awww be a good boy, please jump when i say frog".......
  • Didn't we settle this? by CarrionBird (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:17PM
  • The day the music died. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nurb432 (527695) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:19PM (#9251292)
    (http://slashdot.org/~nurb432/ | Last Journal: Friday August 27 2004, @03:24PM)
    "Granddad, do you still remember when you could listen to music when you wanted too without having to pay every time.. what was that like?"
  • What's the point? by Jane_Dozey (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:21PM
  • Just edit the 'bit 'out? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by nurb432 (527695) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:23PM (#9251356)
    (http://slashdot.org/~nurb432/ | Last Journal: Friday August 27 2004, @03:24PM)
    I cant believe the tag *cant* be removed. Then your music is 'free' again.

    Sure the common guy wont be able to do this, but it seems the common guy is just screwed these days anyway.
  • A US specific problem? by Goth Biker Babe (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:24PM
  • Here . . . (Score:3, Funny)

    by Lorenzo de Medici (774505) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:29PM (#9251472)
    . . . take my fair use rights. I wasn't using them anyway.

    Recording Industry Association of America has discovered that digital radio broadcasts can be copied and redistributed over the Internet

    I'm trying to imagine that moment when they "discovered" this . . . Did they honestly just not know? "Gee, we're sending them a stream of data that gets played automatically. Those stupid end users will never think to *save* that data!"

  • Anybody Remember DivX Discs? by IOOOOOI (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:32PM
  • Mirror by mykawhite (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:35PM
  • BFD, doomed to failure (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jhylkema (545853) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:42PM (#9251661)
    (http://vigilamusprote.blogspot.com/)
    Okay, one side (the content providers) wants to impose some DRM scheme on whatever. The other side, the geeks, will attempt to break them. Now, other than OTP, no encryption scheme is unbreakable. The only value encryption has is to make it more expensive to unlock the data than it's worth. However, when the opposition has a religious fervor and practically unlimited resources, inevitably it will be broken. (SDMI? iTunes? DeCSS?) Exhibit "A" is DeCSS. Export of strong cryptography is prohibited by law. So whatever they come up with will be fairly trivial for the geeks to break. As for it being a lightning rod for copyright lawsuits, well, P2P continues relatively unabated against the RIAA's jihad of suing 12-year-olds and grandmothers.
  • by Gothic_Walrus (692125) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:46PM (#9251710)
    (Last Journal: Thursday August 11 2005, @05:50PM)
    If the FCC adopts such a broadcast flag rule for digital radio, it would apply only to what's called "in-band on-channel digital radio content," that is, digital radio stations that broadcast over the airwaves -- as traditional AM and FM stations now do -- and not to satellite radio or Webcasters that stream digital radio over the Internet.

    Unless I'm mistaken, this means that the flag will not apply to Shoutcast radio stations or others that are internet-only. This sounds like it applies to XM, Sirius, and other forms of digital radio, but NOT what's streamed to your computer.

    Then again, I could be misinterpreting that part of the article...

  • The information already *is* free. by LesPaul75 (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:07PM
  • Keep your damn music by Craig Maloney (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:12PM
  • Not Because... by Catiline (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:14PM
  • the culprit? Windows by wardk (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:20PM
  • They wanna mess? they're gonna loose by t_allardyce (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:30PM
  • If you are against this, talk to the FCC as shown! by Wiseleo (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:36PM
  • ...and in other news... by pandrijeczko (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:42PM
  • Ridiculous (Score:4, Insightful)

    by 0x0d0a (568518) on Tuesday May 25 2004, @05:26PM (#9253526)
    (Last Journal: Sunday October 03 2004, @04:03AM)
    This is absurd.

    The RIAA is asking for protections greater than they recieve for analog radio.

    The problem is that none of the justifications they claim for extended protections apply here.

    The earlier justification was that "digital copies allow infinite generations of lossless copies to be made."

    If someone is recording from the analog radio, they make a digital copy of a lossy transmission. At that point, they can make an infinite number of copies.

    If someone is recording from digital radio, they can make an infinite number of copies of a lossily (probably MP3) encoded stream. Exact same thing.

    Furthermore, because of the nature of streaming data networks, it can be more efficient to use retransmission -- to send one stream of audio to a single host in Sweden that then rebroadcasts ten streams to other Swedish hosts. This is superior than directly sending to eleven Swedish hosts. This would prohibit network structures of such a variety.

    I can't even figure out why the RIAA managed to impose per-stream fees on Internet radio. That's *absurd*. Normal radio has a smaller transmission cost (i.e. not linear in the number of listeners), and has potential audiences several orders of magnitude larger than Internet radio. Why Internet radio stations can't enjoy small, flat rate fees for playing music is beyond me.

    I'm so frusterated with the RIAA. If there was a single vote that could remove all their lobbying, I'd vote for it in a second. But instead, it's a long, unending, slow grind against people that have the potential to make scads more money by swaying a couple of votes.
  • Mirror sites by aaronsorkin (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @06:01PM
  • who would midjack those signals? by The Lynxpro (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @06:30PM
  • Copying ? by cwernli (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @06:37PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • How can the FCC enforce this? by Lord Kano (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @06:42PM
  • The RIAA needs a wakeup call by DigitalSpyder (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @07:02PM
  • How do I capture stream audio by Qrlx (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @07:03PM
  • Other proposed regulations include... by Lewis Daggart (Score:1) Wednesday May 26 2004, @12:00AM
  • FCC-noncompliant equipment by Thomas Shaddack (Score:2) Wednesday May 26 2004, @01:43AM
  • Re:napsterized? by wo1verin3 (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:39PM
  • Re:NX? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:40PM
  • Re:NX? by riptide_dot (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:40PM
    • Re:NX? by Spellbinder (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:43PM
    • Re:NX? by LocalH (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:43PM
      • Re:NX? by Friggo (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:30PM
    • Re:NX? by Mavolic (Score:1) Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:00PM
    • Re:NX? by DynaSoar (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @03:21PM
  • Re:NX? by Geiger581 (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:41PM
  • Re:FCC (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kemapa (733992) * on Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:41PM (#9250788)
    (Last Journal: Sunday September 09, @06:09AM)
    They just need to give up...

    I agree with you that they need to lighten up a bit, but based on history they will not. Remember the whole 'crisis' over video recorders way back in the day? A more contemporary example is the TiVO controversy, with many broadcast networks saying that TiVO will end their business model and cable will be the only option for TV, which is simply untrue. New technology often spurs fear because people fear what certain things _might_ be used for. Just like a gun, it _might_ be used for illegal purposes, but it might not as well. But what _might_ happen is not a good excuse for stifling technological development
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:FCC by malamute5 (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @01:48PM
    • BLT RIAA by August_zero (Score:2) Tuesday May 25 2004, @02:16PM
  • 18 replies beneath your current threshold.