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Handhelds Software Hardware Linux

Motorola+Qtopia=Linux Smart Phone 176

Posted by timothy from the tricorder dept.
lems1 writes "Start compiling the excuses you will tell your boss to upgrade your cell phone now. Motorola has opted to use Trolltech's Qtopia to power up the next generation of SmartPhones. Get the scoop/specs from here and a nice high-res picture from this other link. The phone will have 'digital camera, video player, MP3 player, speakerphone, advanced messaging, instant Internet access and Bluetooth wireless technology' capabilities. On top of being Linux-based of course." Update: 11/12 00:44 GMT by T : Yep, this is the same phone mentioned a few weeks ago.
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Motorola+Qtopia=Linux Smart Phone More

Motorola+Qtopia=Linux Smart Phone

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  • "Phone"? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Beg4Mercy ( 32808 ) on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @08:41PM (#7449644)
    MP3 player? Video player? These things are awesome, but are we sure we can still call them 'phones.' Somehow I think being a phone is no longer their primary feature.

    • Re:"Phone"? (Score:4, Informative)

      by yog ( 19073 ) on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @09:29PM (#7449916) Homepage Journal
      yeah we need a new name for them. PCA's (personal communication devices) or something.

      I'd like to see a few more features:

      a real camera: 3 MP camera (minimum), 5x optical zoom, USB port and SD slot

      VGA port: display images on big screen

      takes mpeg video/audio clips

      webcam functionality--turn it on, scp an image every 3 secs to your server

      built in laser pointer

      voice recorder (can send as voicemail message to others, like a mailing list)

      IR beaming capability a la Palm

      PalmOS, for that matter

      wi-fi, embedded httpd; people could browse to your phone while connected

      MP3/Ogg/WAV stereo output

      biometric security: require your fingerprint or retinal pattern to activate

      about 128MB to hold all this stuff

      Am I forgetting anything?

      • Re:"Phone"? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by pilot1 ( 610480 )
        Yeah, you're missing a SSH client.
        That would be a perfect phone - for people like us. Joe CellPhoneUser wouldn't even understand what most of the features are, let alone use them.
      • yeah we need a new name for them. PCA's (personal communication devices) or something.

        Or maybe an acronym that actually makes sense?

      • Why would you want a built-in laser pointer? It'd add weight and size and provide a useful service to 1% of the population (salespeople and professors). And for that matter, why on Earth would you want PalmOS? For my money, you missed the most important point: a decent flash for the camera.
        • Could you imagine if laser pointers became common on phones? Everywhere you go, some jackass would be playing "lets laugh at the guy with the light on his face - har har"

          We'd never enjoy another movie at the theater.
          • We'd never enjoy another movie at the theater.


            Sooo... what you're saying is that there'd be no change in the enjoyment of the movies? ;)

      • Re:"Phone"? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by moosesocks ( 264553 )
        um.... do any LAPTOPS offer this? (forgetting the whole 'phone' aspect)

        do any DESKTOPS even offer all of these functions in one unit?

        either way, physical restrictions will prohibit this from being practical (gotta have big antenna to transmit high bandwidths, room for a speaker, optics for the high-quality camera, microphone for the recorder, place ti put your fingerprint for security, somewhere to hold a stylus, room for the VGA port and accompanying hardware. oh.... and a battery big enough to support
      • Am I forgetting anything?

        Yea, the kitchen sink.
      • You've forgotten the built-in LCD projector.

        You won't need the monitor cables because you can just point your device at a nearby surface.

        Imagine if they were strong enough (laser-based?) to project a small image 50m or so ... you could beam a movie onto the wall next to someone from across the restaurant ... then imagine a crowd of people with thousands of these things, like New Year's Eve or a sporting event, or the cinema .... it would be an insane world.
      • Am I forgetting anything?


        Coffee. It must make coffee.
      • Am I forgetting anything?

        AM/FM/DAB radio, Television, knife, screwdriver set, marlin spike, toothpick, taser, comb, cigarette lighter, sattelite navigation, surround sound.

      • You forgot:-

        remote control device for bullet proof car

        homing beacon

        dual use electromagnet (picking up henchman's knives/undoing russian lady spy's zipper).

  • Hey, this is awesome. Time to throw away those MP3 players, digital camera and others, and just get a cellphone.

    Seriously thou, isn't having that much options on a cellphone make it slightly more confusing to use? Especially for those who drive and talk?
    • Maybe that's why driving and talking on a cell are illegal in some states? because now people are driving, talking, watching video's, listening to MP3s and IMing to their hearts content!
    • Talk? What you mean you wanna *TALK* using your *PHONE*? Its for taking pictures, playing silly games, listen to music and frying eggs you morron! :/

    • Seriously thou, isn't having that much options on a cellphone make it slightly more confusing to use? Especially for those who drive and talk?

      Nah. I've discovered that if you just pay full attention to your phone you can handle it all right.

      Although everyone else on the road seems to get confused after that. What's with them anyway, don't they know how to drive?

      KFG
  • I feel sorry for the person hosting the picture. His bandwidth bill is going to be a bit larger than previous months

  • I wish they'd stop... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by HarveyBirdman ( 627248 ) on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @08:44PM (#7449666) Journal
    I went browsing for a new phone last week. Everytime I found a form factor I liked with a nice display or whatever, it always have some friggin' blasted camera function or voice recorder. Enough with the added features. Where I work, if I walk in with a phone that contains recording devices of any kind beyong phone number storage, many burly men in black suits will wrestle me to the ground and pummel me into submission while tossing my phone into an incinerator. On the second offense, *I* get tossed in after the phone.

    How about a solid, reliable phone that just makes really, really, really good, clear calls? To many of the current generation have that "disposable" feel to them.

    • Re:I wish they'd stop... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Davak ( 526912 )
      Hey, we should trade phones!

      I want a phone into which I can dictate... then just sync it into my computer and let dragon dictate transcribe it for me.

      Palm, page, phone, and dictaphone... my belt makes me look like BATMAN these days.

      Davak
      • "Palm, page, phone, and dictaphone... my belt makes me look like BATMAN these days."

        Wait, I don't see what the problem is. I actually want more devices AND a utility belt. But only if I can carry a grappling hook around, too.
      • Then buy a Sonyericsson T610 (if your network allows it). Quite cheap and good enough for a phone, I'd say. It has about 2MB of memory free (with your average set of ringtones/wallpapers/themes/games installed, which is more than enough for your average dictation.

        The other day I recorded a 20 minute talk and it took about 800K. Then connect it to a bluetooth-enabled PC and transfer the file to it. It's in AMR format, but you can get converters for it for free. I have one that does AMR to OGG.

        Then have you
      • What is wrong about having your PDA replace the dictaphone? Lots of PocketPC models and some PalmOS models have a hardware record and even the memory (or expansion ability to add memory) to make it worth while. I imagine there is some way to spit it out to/sync it with Naturally Speaking... They record just as WAV files.

        And a pager still? Wow, hello mr. dinosaur man. Why not consolodate the pager and phone? Work for some weird company who won't let you use a different page #, one that happens to be on t
    • I work at a place that makes friggin' blasted camera functions on phones. And guess what the company's policy is? The burly men will throw my Canon DSLR in the incinerator, but camera phones are just fine to bring in.

    • Re:I wish they'd stop... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by gl4ss ( 559668 ) on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @09:24PM (#7449893) Homepage Journal
      you know why those features appear there? most of them don't really 'cost' anything, they're just bits of software. and really, if people just settled a phone that 'just phones well' the sales of phones would be much much much lower, there's been such phones available for years(this year for example massive amounts of people switched to color screen phones, that as phones essentially work exactly like their old phones did). though many just buy a new phone instead of shelling out the cash for a new battery too. the phone can't do miracles about the providers network though.

      how about a nice nokia 2100 [nokia.com] if you don't want any features? or siemens a50? [my-siemens.com]

      the thing is that those phones(that don't have much features) do exist, but they're a horrible deal to actually buy(cost nearingly the same as the next phone in the range with couple of more useful functions), you essentially save a bit(not nearingly enough) of money to have things disabled.
    • Get yerself a Nokia 7210. Nice form-factor, well made, useful addressbook and calendar display features, and no camera. Sorted.
    • Where I work, if I walk in with a phone that contains recording devices of any kind beyong phone number storage, many burly men in black suits will wrestle me to the ground and pummel me into submission while tossing my phone into an incinerator.

      INCREDIBLE! They wont trust you with a five minute digital recorder, but they will trust you with a very high quality four hour long range bug otherwise known as a cell phone? Ask any salesperson - the cell phone is the ultimate bug:

      1) Dial out to say your per
      • Actually, there are areas of my work where even cell phones are banned. Many are actually shielded in room sized Faraday cages.
    • Same here. It seems like the more junk they add to a phone:

      1) the heavier & bulkier it gets. They were just about to get to the size of a lapel pin that I could wear on my shoulder like a star trek insignia.

      2) the more unstable it gets. There's nothing worse or more embarrassing than losing a call because your phone crashes. This happens even with relatively simple WAP phones, and all the time with the old VisorPhone I had.

      3) the less electronics I would buy. If phones and PDAs were separate and

      • 1) the heavier & bulkier it gets.

        Not really. Phones have been getting smaller and lighter, despite the fact that they have added features to it (camera, Bluetooth, GPRS, WAP, EDGE, color-screen, polyphonic ring-tones etc. etc.). The size is starting to reach it's limits, since the device still needs a keypad, and the screen (color-screen these days) are getting bigger.

        2) the more unstable it gets. There's nothing worse or more embarrassing than losing a call because your phone crashes. This happens

  • i am pleased (Score:2, Insightful)

    by myom ( 642275 )
    Seems Motorola is showing the way, along with HP and IBM - All of these big companies that I had some antipathy against before are now showing some courage... Guess they are large enough to ignore Microsoft or try alternatives, while the smaller ones are ending up in either the Symbian or Microsoft camps.

  • But what network does it use? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Audent ( 35893 ) <audent@ilov[ ]scuits.com ['ebi' in gap]> on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @08:44PM (#7449672) Homepage
    Anyone? I can't find it on the site. CDMA, GPRS, string? what?

    that's kind of important to those of us with a choice.

    looks nice though. I never liked the clamshell design but now it's growing on me... much better than having to lock the keypad all the time

  • Yeah... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Davak ( 526912 ) on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @08:45PM (#7449676) Homepage
    Phones, PDAs, set-top boxes, computer games, medical equipment, industrial controllers, and other systems need graphical user interface software that is smaller, smarter, faster: and that runs on multiple platforms: including desktop and server platforms.

    What worries me about this wonderful Swiss-Army phone is the software. If it ran Palm OS, I could easily continue to use all my current favorite software.

    Where do I find software for this beast?

    If it runs pure linux stuff, yeah! But if it runs some hybrid, I'll wait a couple of versions down the line until the software is commonplace.

    • Re:Yeah... (Score:4, Informative)

      by swv3752 ( 187722 ) <swv3752&hotmail,com> on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @08:54PM (#7449737) Homepage Journal
      http://killefiz.de/zaurus
      • Exactly. Just like with linux in general, despite the common conception that you can't find software for linux, you almost always can find software and it is likely to be free. I've had absolutely no problem finding whatever type of software I need for my Zaurus and I've never had to pay a cent for it. I also have considered paying for some of the theKompany stuff, which looks pretty good. I probably will eventually.
    • well.. that's the problem. and it doesn't really mean or matter jack if it runs qt or not internally if you can't do/get the software yourself(just because it has linux innards doesn't really warm me if i can't really get any programs, that do anything i want, for it).

      anyways.. series60(nokia+some others) symbian phones are starting to have a pretty good portfolio when it comes to software. since 7650 has been out for a year already, and the appearance of other s60 phones has made it pretty nice looking pl

    • Where do I find software for this beast?

      Very well put. In the US you are at the mercy of your carrier as to what phones they will allow you to use. For example, try and get a J2ME enabled phone you can use on Verizon.

      Of course they have bucketloads using their GetItNow service (also known as Qualcomm BREW) and the apps only come for a fee (which Qualcomm and Verizon get a portion of).

      To write a "free" program for any Verizon cellphone would require me to spend over $6,000 a year at Qualcomm, get it

    • If it runs pure linux stuff, yeah!

      MontaVista has announced [mvista.com] that it runs their Linux, so technically it should be able to run arbitrary Linux stuff. But information on how to download applications and on applications that are hooked up to the phone's buttons and display might also be needed... If it does run Qtopia then there are a lot of Qtopia applications available.

    • Since the Zaurus runs Qtopia, you would hope that a fair quantity of the Zaurus software would run on this phone. Whether the insanity runs as deep as I've seen for the Zaurus (i.e., running apache and sshd) is yet to be seen.

      Also, wouldn't it have support for J2ME as well?

  • What they don't tell you... (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ...is that this picture [motorola.com] is actual size.

  • This is Linux's Omaha Beach (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Ridgelift ( 228977 ) on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @08:49PM (#7449701)
    And, the model A760 is ideal for execs on the move with secure and instant access to corporate e-mail and database applications. Everyone loves a multi-tasker.

    Cell phones are the battleground where Linux will defeat Microsoft for world domination in the OS war. When executives who buy Linux-based phones note how reliable the OS is on their phone, it's a short mental leap to see it's reliability on the internet, servers, phone systems, and eventually the growing server and desktop.

    Many techs think this is naive, but just ask a suit. You'll be surprised to hear the phrase "I thought Linux was dead". Executives are like salespeople; they only believe what they see, and what they see is the end product.
    • Your assuming people who use cell phones will find out or even care what the OS of the phone is. I bet money that no one but the few here care at all. People want cell phones that are inexpensive, feature packed, and have good reception. They could care less what's running under the hood.
    • Cell phones are the battleground where Linux will defeat Microsoft for world domination in the OS war. When executives who buy Linux-based phones note how reliable the OS is on their phone, it's a short mental leap to see it's reliability on the internet, servers, phone systems, and eventually the growing server and desktop.

      Then they'll have absolutely no interest in this [attwireless.com], right? No business executive could possibly have a use for a phone that can sync directly with their Windows programs and includes p
      • Far more likely in my mind is that linux phones will win minds by having a simpler set of tools, which interoperate cleanly (just use standards, no integration beyond that) and go out of their way to minimise bandwidth usage over latency (i.e. use compressed tunnels for all data). Of course, the bandwidth thing will never happen as the carriers will all want to make sure they can charge you your 3/MB (current gprs/3g charge here in Ireland for a single phone user) and not the miserly 0.3 or less you would
    • When executives who buy Linux-based phones note how reliable the OS is on their phone, it's a short mental leap to see it's reliability on the internet, servers, phone systems, and eventually the growing server and desktop.

      First of all, they are unlikely to know or care what OS the phone runs. Secondly, you are asking for a (possibly correct) conclusion based on faulty reasoning, which is a terribly slippery slope. There are many phone (or PDA) operating systems, and most of them are utterly unsuitable

    • WOW there cowboy... an exec who has a no-crashing phone will be AT BEST, content... if an exec has a crashing phone, he will just curse at it, and restart the damn thing. No million dollar migration will come from a cell phone, imo.

  • Ogg Vorbis? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Pyro226 ( 715818 ) <Pyro226@nosPAm.hotmail.com> on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @08:50PM (#7449707) Journal
    The phone will have 'digital camera, video player, MP3 player...

    Anyone know (or have reason to guess) if this thing will play Ogg Vorbis or FLAC audio files? Despite my decided lack of money I would buy an iPod if it had Vorbis support, and while I don't need a walkman, I do need a cell phone.

  • Trolltech Unveils Qtopia Phone Edition Oslo, Norway - 2003-10-31

    Trolltech(R), a leader in multiplatform development frameworks, today introduced Qtopia(R) Phone Edition (Qtopia Phone), a Linux(R)-based application platform for phones.

    The combination of Qtopia Phone and embedded Linux creates a robust operating environment with the flexibility to support phones with limited capacity, feature phones and high-end enterprise smartphones. Qtopia Phone provides all the base Qtopia applicati

  • So, is Motorola betting on Linux (this phone, A760) or MS Smartphone (MPx200)? Or are they just playing with both to see which one wins?

    • Re:Confused (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Linux Ate My Dog! ( 224079 )
      Many manufacturers do, except for Nokia & Sony Ericsson. Samsung, for example, is pumping out phones in world markets will all kinds of OSes, just to see what sticks.

      What sticks are good UIs.

  • Qt/Embedded vs Qtopia (Score:5, Informative)

    by rhysweatherley ( 193588 ) on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @08:52PM (#7449724)
    Qt/Embedded is the low-level widget library - essentially Qt ported to embedded Linux. Qtopia is a suite of PDA/SmartPhone applications that build on top of Qt/Embedded. I belive that Motorola is using Qt/Embedded and its own suite of applications on top, not Qtopia.

  • Save Some Time (Score:2, Informative)

    by dandot ( 605647 )
    To save some time, go here [motorola.com] for the specs without the HTML junk.
    • Specs? There ain't no numbers in that page. Just lots of superlatives.

      Where are the specs?

      Also, which cell-phone companies support/permit it?

  • VisorPhones (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dark-br ( 473115 ) on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @08:56PM (#7449747) Homepage
    I have the forefather, one of those old VisorPhones that you put in springboard of a Visor. It's about 2 years old now I think, and quite big in my pocket, if you compare with these new models. Still, I wouldn't trade for any of those other "smart phones" out there, except for this new Treo 600 of course. Why buy a phone that also tries to act as a pda, when you can get a really good pda, that can also act as a phone? I mean, the gadgets of a cellphone are more important than the phone itself, right. :)
    • i'm reposting this because i beleive it still applys to this article
      Yes, some households have several phone numbers per person. However, other households have one phone number for several people. Cell phones, second lines, etc are moderately common, but far from ubiquitous.
  • Just because this phone runs Linux does not necessarily make it better than the other phones out there. Sure, if they had used GTK+ it would look like arse, but if this phone doesn't have the hardware to back up the software, it's simply not going to perform as it needs to. It's great to support projects that support Linux, but if those projects suck, your support is wasted. There are plenty other worthy cell phones out there that perform as advertised, such as those from Microsoft and Handspring/Palm.

  • Not for me (Score:2, Troll)

    by JanneM ( 7445 )
    The idea of a Linux-based phone is nice, but Qtopia just isn't a very good environment. It was far too clumsy and 'desktop'-like on the Zaurus, and will likely be even worse on such a cramped device as a telephone.

    • I abandoned my SL-5500 and went back to a Palm PDA because the software was crap. The idea of a phone using PIM software inferior to what Palm were doing donkey's years ago is not appealing.
    • I am sure in the two years since Sharp released a Qtopia 1.5.4 version, the Qtopia developers have managed to work out quite a few kinks.
      • Well, the basic "kink" is that the stuff looks and acts desktop-like. There's windows, button bars, scrollbars and so on - all stuff that makes good sense on a arge desktop, but not on a device where I will be running one app only at a time. The screen should _be_ the window for the apps; the whole idea of a title bar is anathema to the format. That is something the Palm does right and Qtopia does not.
  • Wonder if they are making this phone hearing aid compatible? For those of you who may not know (probably most of you), a hearing aid has a telecoil that picks up EMF frequencies. Most modern phones broadcast in EMF but cell phones are more spotty. My Samsong A460 does broadcast EMF but also provides lots of static and weird noises..

  • mistake (Score:4, Insightful)

    by penguin7of9 ( 697383 ) on Tuesday November 11, 2003 @10:33PM (#7450287)
    I think Motorola made a mistake by choosing Qt/Embedded, and one that may cost Linux the phone market.

    Choosing Qt/Embedded means that Motorola is now tied to the fortunes of Troll Tech. The GPL option of Troll Tech's license may be acceptable for open source developers, but it wouldn't be an option for Motorola should Troll Tech decide to take a wrong turn somewhere with where they take Qt/Embedded (some would argue that they already have). Furthermore, commercial developers for these phones have a much higher cost of entry into the market than if Motorola had chosen one of the LGPL'ed toolkits.

    Altogether, Motorola is in roughly the same situation with respect to Troll Tech as they would be with respect to Microsoft if they had chosen Windows CE. But Microsoft at least is guaranteed to stay around a little longer.

    What is particularly sad is that Qt/Embedded really has technically no advantages over any of the alternatives. Even compared to X11 and Gtk+, Qt/Embedded is slow and memory hungry; it's less featureful and without open implementations.

    Congratulations on a good marketing and sales job to Troll Tech. But this is a pretty sad day for Linux and open source.
    • Qt/Embedded is slow and memory hungry; it's less featureful and without open implementations.

      You mean open implementations like this [handhelds.org]?

    • Re:mistake (Score:2, Insightful)

      by darkheavy ( 78519 )
      The huge difference of QT/Embedded Vs X11/GTK _and_ glib is that QT has an API that an eight y/o could code with. Have you ever tried to make "Hello world" with Xlib?

      Commercial developers have to pay to use QT? Big deal, it only means that their commercial margin will be a bit lower. And if they don't want to, they can distribute their software as GPL.

      But meanwhile there are lots of free software products hitting the internet instead of the shelves from the non-commercial developers. And guess what, they
  • I want the new pocketPC T-Mobile phone (I don't think one has come out yet...)

    Why?

    Because you can use Visual Studio 2003 to easily write apps for the .net portable framework. I've already written a few simple ones using the simulator in visual studio and it's incredibly easy. I predict that as Visual Studio 2003 catches on and pocketPC 2003 catches on the number of pocketPC apps will spike and at least catch up with the number of palm apps.

    Just about any app you can think of that would be useful could
  • [Insert stupid comment regarding wireless beowolf cluster of these here]
  • I admittedly didn't research every fscking handset on that anouncement site. The general fine print I did read on the BT handsets pretty much pointed to the Bluetooth phones, once again, being only for GSM/GPRS.

    Sprint and Verizon, what gives? What the hell do you guys have against BT??? I work in the industry and have even queried a few manufacturer reps and higher-ups at the carriers and the results have been disparaging, to say the least. Reps scurry away quickly with hands firmly clamped over their ears
  • Does it sync with Outlook? Sad but true.
  • Motopia!

  • You must be kidding. I bought one of their timeport phones and it was the total suckage. I asked a couple friends why that was, and they gave me that pittying look - "Look...that poor sod bought a motorola, how sad..."

    A lot of stuff runs linux nowadays. But just because you can slap linux on a machine doesn't mean it's a good machine...

  • None of the Motorola phones I had were particularly ergonomic. The tri-band P7389 was particularly annoying. You can't simply add a number that you just dialed to your phone book. Nope, you have to enter the whole number one more time. Disgusting. Why should this be better now? As far as usablity, Siemens and Nokia still lead the pack by far.

  • I had a Motorola Accompli 008 (I needed a calendar) which can be described as an older version of this phone I believe and it sounds like this phone have some of the same flaws according to a small "review" I found here [mobileburn.com].

    Basically, the interface on the Accompli 008 sucked. It has got to be pretty easy to use or I'll simply not use it. I ended up only using it as a phone and it wasn't very hand in that regard. This smartphone sounds like it's become a bit better, but not that much. Today I have a SE P800 an

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