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Toys Science

11-Pound Model Plane Vs. The Atlantic, Again 301

Posted by timothy from the admirable-hobby dept.
Luap Nanreffeh writes "Last year, (/. Story 1, /. story 2) Maynard Hill and some retired NASA buddies tried to set a record for flying a model aeroplane across the atlantic ocean (from Newfoundland to Ireland). Their plan, using GPS, onboard controllers, and a gallon of gas, would have been the first to cross the Atlantic under FAI rules. They didn't have much luck last year, but now they're at it again. The first launch should be tonight."
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11-Pound Model Plane Vs. The Atlantic, Again More

11-Pound Model Plane Vs. The Atlantic, Again

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  • all of us from slashdot send Charles "Lucky Hammy" Hamster our support.

    good luck and godspeed, brave hamster.

    Mike

  • Wouldn't it be better... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sir Haxalot ( 693401 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:29PM (#6628784)
    instead of giving an exact date, just waiting until weather conditions are perfect to fly it?
    • weather in newfoundland is extremely unpredictable, thus the choice of set date i imagine.

      newfoundland also has the fame of being the birthplace of wireless communication, as the worlds first wireless transmission across the atlantic was recieved on signal hill [marconicalling.com] back in 1901, so maybe that was another reason as well.

      hmm, guess my newfoundland pride is showing :)

      • Re:Wouldn't it be better... (Score:5, Funny)

        by los furtive ( 232491 ) <ChrisLamotheNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @06:24PM (#6629262) Homepage

        newfoundland also has the fame of being the birthplace of wireless communication, as the worlds first wireless transmission across the atlantic was recieved on signal hill back in 1901, so maybe that was another reason as well.

        And I'm sure that the fact that it's also about closest point between North America and Europe without getting your feet wet has absolutely nothing to do with it.

        But thanks for the trivia. Now quit your lollygaging ;-)

      • I think your pride is getting the better of you :^)

        The birth of wireless communication happened, unsurprisingly, before the first trans-Atlantic transmission (which may actualyl have just been static). Try looking here [cnn.com] for example.

        In fact, as every Northern Irish school child is (or at elast should be) taught, the first overseas transmission happened just up the road from me between Rathlin Island and Ballycastle, as this [q102.fm] site should inform you.

  • Drug running (Score:5, Funny)

    by GreenCrackBaby ( 203293 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:30PM (#6628811) Homepage
    So, how long until drug runners send little planes from Columbia to Florida?

    This gives me too many ideas...

  • In other news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Valiss ( 463641 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:31PM (#6628825) Homepage
    ...my neighbor tried to make his toy remote control car across the street, only to be crushed by the UPS guy.

    So this is what a job market over-saturated with people with degrees and experience produces?

    Or maybe they were just tired of people laughing when they told people that they worked for NASA.

  • I've got an idea! (Score:5, Funny)

    by daeley ( 126313 ) * on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:32PM (#6628834) Homepage
    Get in touch with the English Channel skydiver [slashdot.org] and set up a cross promotion: Skydiver Flies (and Flies Model Plane) Across Atlantic.

    Q. Which reminds me of an old joke: what do you get when you cross the Titanic and the Atlantic Ocean?

    A. About halfway.

  • Possible Use (Score:2, Insightful)

    by thePancreas ( 690504 )
    Drug Smuggling anyone? Or maybe strong encryption smuggling. Can't be radar visible if it's that small.
    • These days we ignore anything larger than an eagle on radar, under the premise that any plane of war would be masked to appear much smaller.

      This plane will be shot down before it leaves US waters.
    • Can't be radar visible if it's that small.

      I believe that's why the Lear Fan private jet model was aborted.

      Made mostly of composites, with the biggest single piece of metal being the spindle of the Jet and the bulk of the metal being the avionics, it had such a small radar cross-section that it didn't show up on airport search radar until it was actually over the field...
      • Glock pistols "had" that problem according to the flying FUD when they were announced. Now when the composite is still liquid they put in a bunch of metal filings, etc. or something like that to make them appear solid on xray.
        • Umm, no. Glocks are about 80% metal by weight, IIRC. They have always been easily seen by xrays. It's not like someone has invented composite ammunition, magazines, and barrels.

  • Why NASA's efforts failed the first time around.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Bowie J. Poag ( 16898 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:37PM (#6628869) Homepage
    They forgot to add in the additional weight of the coconuts.

  • This is excellent practice... (Score:3, Funny)

    by vudufixit ( 581911 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:38PM (#6628886)
    The engineering experience gained from this endeavor will only help humans create better autonomous craft for Earthbound and space-based uses. Glad they're doing this, and I wish them luck, although if they see any German guys with ladders in their backyard, get the ol' shotgun ready.

  • hm (Score:4, Insightful)

    by DNS-and-BIND ( 461968 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:39PM (#6628892) Homepage
    Why don't they just build a dozen of these, and launch them an hour apart. The whole advantage of small inexpensive craft is the "swarm" approach.

  • Thanks for the links (Score:5, Funny)

    by CracktownHts ( 655507 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:39PM (#6628898)
    (from Newfoundland [gov.nf.ca] to Ireland). Their plan, using GPS, onboard controllers, and a gallon of gas, would have been the first to cross the Atlantic under FAI rules. They didn't have much luck last year, but now they're at it again. The first launch should be tonight."

    You know you're reading Slashdot when "GPS" and "FAI" are assumed to require less background info than "Newfoundland".

  • I can see it now. (Score:5, Funny)

    by MegaHamsterX ( 635632 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:40PM (#6628901)
    In the news today a nearly blind and deaf man was arrested for terrorist acts after his home built guided missile traveled the atlantic and started a fire at a shoreside housing complex, a terrorized elderly couple lost 16 cats in the fierce blaze.

  • By all other names (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jonhuang ( 598538 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:40PM (#6628912) Homepage
    So this is a automatous GPS-guided long-range flying vehicle? Isn't that a cruise missle?

    Admittedly, there would be some scaling up before poeple could fit a 2000lb warhead on it. But for bio/chemical WMDs, here's your cheap unstoppable delivery device.

    I wish them luck, regardless.
    • Well Bio agents can be pretty light and not that hard to disperse over large areas. I wouldent call it unstopable just particulary hard and nearly unstopable in large numbers (can you see a few hundred of them in a formation) To small to shoot with missles to slow to attack from a jet realy it would be the helicopters who could probably just fly over the things and send them into the sea via there prop wash (thats for planes same thing for choppers?) but if all else fails machine guns work.

      So whats next
    • here's your cheap unstoppable delivery device.

      Cheap, yes....but unstoppable? it's so stoppable it has YET to fly more than 1/4 the way through its route!

    • Re:By all other names (Score:5, Insightful)

      by oGMo ( 379 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @06:24PM (#6629257)
      So this is a automatous GPS-guided long-range flying vehicle? Isn't that a cruise missle?

      So, a cat is a 4-legged mammal with hair? Isn't that a woolly mammoth?

      Nope, invalid logic.

    • here's your cheap unstoppable delivery device.

      Dude, be serious, even the Iraqi farmer with 100 years old riffle [bbc.co.uk] could shoot this plane down.

      I also found this when searching for the farmer: Comical Ali [comicalalidvd.com] on DVD. hehehe

    • This thing is probably just a tad slower than a cruise missile. In fact, several tads.

      I mean, this is just a friggin' airplane. You scale it up to carry a 2000lb warhead, and you're gonna start needing a much larger and sturdier body, wings, fuel tank, and engine . . .

      'Scaling' this would still just be giving you a vehicle with the capability of a personal airplane. It's going to be pretty slow, very expensive (given that even gutless airplanes generally cost around $500k), and it will show up on radar un
      • A metric ton of coke is a million grams. Back in 1990, if you can believe Bush Administration propaganda, the retail street price for coke was about $30-40/gram. That's $30-40 million of coke per airplane, or $10 million if the Feds' price was too high for this stage in the food chain. If the airplane costs $500K, it's small change. The wholesale price was less than 10% of that, and the airplane is still small change. If one airplane out of 5 gets through, you win. If one in 10 gets through, you stil

  • Website is pretty disappointing (Score:3, Informative)

    by Sanity ( 1431 ) * on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:41PM (#6628913) Homepage Journal
    The website is somewhat disappointing, and for some perplexing reason they want to keep their autopilot system closed source. If they had even the slightest flair for the dramatic they would set up a page which tracks the plane's progress in real-time on a map from their satellite telementary system.

    All in all, I was much more impressed by the Balloon 1.0 [vpizza.org] project, even though an unpowered balloon isn't half as cool as a powered and automatically guided RC aircraft travelling such a huge distance unaided.

    Does anyone have any good links for other projects in a similar vein which aren't so coy about the gory technical details?

  • The Spirit of Butts Farm? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Sialagogue ( 246874 ) <sialagogue@NOSPam.gmail.com> on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:41PM (#6628916)

    "The airplane(s) we launch this month will be called 'The Spirit of Butts Farm' - Check back later to learn why."

    Sounds to me like a blatant ploy for sponsorship dollars from RIM. . .

  • I can picture it now... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Valiss ( 463641 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:41PM (#6628918) Homepage
    After they make the flight and decide to sell the plane:

    "So, you boyus used to work for NASA, huh?"

    "Yep."

    "Well I dont really know if this is the kind of plane I'm looking for. You say it get's 3,000 miles per gallon?

    "About that."

    "I'm really in the market for something that gets more like 4,000 miles to the gallon. Plus it looks real used, what with all the bird crap and scratches on it. I'll give ya 50 bucks."

    "But we made a world record with this!!"

    "Yeah but the paint is chipped. 60 bucks is my final offer."

    "Fine, we'll take it. There's oour retirement!"

  • The NASA version... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Hawthorne01 ( 575586 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:42PM (#6628925)
    "Oh, wait, 11 *pounds*? Damn, we did all our calculations for an 11 *kilo* plane!" (sound of a spash)
    • > "Oh, wait, 11 *pounds*? Damn, we did all our
      >calculations for an 11 *kilo* plane!" (sound of a
      >spash)

      Actually, that would be to their advantage - their aircraft would be 2.2x lighter...

    • you do realize that it was Boeing that did the miscalculations, and not NASA, right? Even though NASA got blamed, it wasn't their fault, it was Boeing who caused the screwup... :)

  • Let the heckling begin! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by YetAnotherName ( 168064 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:43PM (#6628934) Homepage
    From the website: "The airplane(s) we launch THIS month will be called "The Spirit of Butts Farm"

    No, I'm not making that up. Check it yourself, if it's not slashdotted already.
  • 3000 miles per gallon? not bad

  • Model? (Score:2, Funny)

    by useosx ( 693652 )
    Anyone else think this article was talking about seriously underweight fashion model consuming the Atlantic ocean?

  • And at the finish line.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by SoVi3t ( 633947 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @06:03PM (#6629107)
    Some poor Irish guy is gonna be standing on the beach all alone, get nailed in the head with a model plane, and get REALLY confused.

  • Links to other projects (Score:3, Informative)

    by jetmarc ( 592741 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @07:04PM (#6629490)
    Here's a company that sells all equipment necessary to autonomously fly a model plane. Obviously you can define several GPS coordinates, and the plane will go pass them all.

    http://www.micropilot.com/

    Here's an open-source effort to autonomously fly a helicopter. Heli's are more difficult to manouver than planes.

    http://autopilot.sourceforge.net/

  • Testing (Score:2, Funny)

    by DerangedYeti ( 691087 )
    Did they fire frozen chickens at it to make sure it would survive a bird hit?
  • A DIY Cruise MIssile [interestingprojects.com]
    "Watch me build one for under $5000."
  • Sure, it's definitely cool to cross the Atlantic - you've basically got one shot, win or lose. But I'd think they'd first try to get it across North America on land, so if something goes wrong they can get some information out of it rather than just knowing roughly where it sank in the ocean.
  • Hey, it sounds faster than avian carriers, though perhaps less reliable....
  • 11-Pound Model Plane: Behold, Atlantic, I will cover you with my excelent gas mileage and whirly propeller.

    Atlantic: You dare challenge me again, little 11-Pound Model Plane? Your whirly propeller is no match for my spinning hurricanes of doom.

    11-Pound Model Plane: My light weight allows me to cross great distances! You shall not stop me!

    Atlantic: WTF? I'm the freaking Atlantic Ocean. Come here you little punk ass 11-Pound Model - wha?

    Gecko: Excuse me. Did you know you can save 15% or more on

  • GNC (Score:3, Insightful)

    by deblau ( 68023 ) <slashdot.25.flickboy@spamgourmet.com> on Thursday August 07, 2003 @10:28AM (#6634639) Journal
    Let's start with navigation. They may be ex-NASA, but unless they applied for and received GPS PPS capability, they're navigating with SPS only, which is only +/- 100m with 95% confidence. Normal flight rules allow human pilots to use GPS [faa.gov] for lat/lon determination only and not altitude, especially not for precision approaches. 50m +/- 100m isn't what you want to see on your altimeter. Normally, GPS should be backed up by something like LORAN [faa.gov], which has accuracy of 100ft, but even that isn't reliable over much of the North Atlantic due to poor coverage. The best system involves the use of GPS/LORAN-C in combination with some sort of inertial navigation system [faa.gov] (INS). But you have to remember that gyroscopes precess, and that magnetic headings can be off by as much as 45 degrees [fsu.edu] in the North Atlantic due to magnetic deviation.

    Realize that even as reliable as GPS is, satellites can give false information. There's a system to counteract this problem, called RAIM, but it requires 4 birds to be visible to detect a problem, and 5 to remove the faulty signal from nav calculations, assuming you have a redundant, GPS-compatible, digital barometric altimeter on board. Otherwise, you need 6 birds visible.

    Guidance seems to be relatively straightforward: figure out where you are (with 95% confidence), and aim toward your next waypoint. Here's a quick overview of what that entails:

    1. Determine lat/lon for you and the waypoint
    2. Determine true (ground) course
    3. Determine magnetic course after correcting for the aforementioned deviation
    4. Determine magnetic heading after correcting for wind
    5. Determine compass heading after correcting for onboard instrument magnetic interference
    6. Issue commands to the flight control system to head that way
    The wind correction is non-trivial. Last I checked [wisc.edu], winds in the flight route were generally sustained at around 15 knots, and varied by a full 180 degrees relative to the course. This plane flies at about 40 knots. Grabbing a calculator and doing some trig, wind correction could be as much as arctan(15/40) = 20 degrees. Onboard interference is typically up to 10 degrees in GA aircraft. Here's a concrete example: if you want to fly due east (090) in the North Atlantic with a 45 degree deviation and winds from the south at 15 knots, with onboard interference of +10 degrees, you'd have to fly a compass heading of 165! That's almost due south.

    That leaves flight controls. You need to maintain proper attitude, keeping in mind that there's gonna be turbulence. In order for any magnetic navigation system to properly realigned (remember gyroscopic precession?), you need to be flying straight and level, which requires extensive compensation for unsteady flight dynamics. It's not as simple as saying "pitch up" when your speed gets too high or your altitude is too low. What if you get inverted? It can happen. Even human pilots don't do so well flying instruments only -- see the NTSB findings [ntsb.gov] in the JFK junior crash. Maintaining stability and control over dynamical systems is a hard problem, which is why many colleges offer entire majors in CDS.

    Disclaimer: I am a Space Shuttle [nasa.gov] enthusiast and a student pilot (hopefully, that will change in two weeks). I know that NASA have the expertise to overcome these problems, and I'm willing to give these engineers the benefit of the doubt. I wish them good weather and no system malfunctions.

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