ClusterKnoppix 296
chronicon writes "Knoppix is the ultimate live CD. No geek-kit should be without it. Now Wim Vandersmissen has taken it a step futher by adding openMosix functionality. Drop the clusterKnoppix CD in your "server", boot up... boot up some networked clients... Knoppix built in LTSP magic kicks in and ta-da--instant cluster!"
Imagine a (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Imagine a (Score:3, Funny)
Instant cluster's gonna get you
Gonna knock you right on the head...
hehe
Re:Imagine a (Score:3, Insightful)
Every day I find another use for Knoppix. I've re-built my own - with non re-distributable software, like X-Over plugins.
Imagine a Beowulf cluster!! (Score:4, Informative)
Knoppix is impressive (Score:5, Insightful)
Having such easy clustering, with such an idiot-proof interface ("put the CD in the drive, boot, and you're ready to go"), built upon such a solid foundation where shortcuts that afflict other distributions haven't been taken, is truly an achievement worthy of praise and respect.
In short, knoppix already rocked, and now they have surpassed themselves again! Very, very cool!
Re:Knoppix is impressive (Score:2)
Now, he loves Knoppix because "it didn't just find some generic video card, it detected MY video card".
I've been distributing it to a few close friends here at my university. Most of them like it, burn
Re:Knoppix is impressive (Score:2)
Cheers,
Costyn.
Re:Imagine a Beowulf cluster!! (Score:2, Informative)
e.g., knoppix screen=1600x1200
works like a charm
Re:Imagine a Beowulf cluster!! (Score:2)
As if I needed another reason... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm wondering how difficult it is to setup. Is it as easy as the poster made it sound?
Re:As if I needed another reason... (Score:5, Interesting)
How'd you boot the clients? (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm curious about how difficult it is to boot clients over the network.
Re:How'd you boot the clients? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:How'd you boot the clients? (Score:2, Informative)
most newer machines with an on-board nic (my ecs k7s5a) support pxe boot as an option within the bios. but for older machines, net booting requires either a nic that supports net booting (should have an eeprom on the nic), which are not the cheap nics that i've always bought, or with a floppy (which
Re:As if I needed another reason... (Score:2)
An IT lecturer in our college just came to me the other day.. he has recently discovered Linux (one must ask why it has taken him this long.. but at least he is making the effort), and is currently learning it and playing with it.
He recently saw information on Linux clustering, and seeing as his classroom is made up of 18 or so nice 1GHz+ pc's, he told me it was something he'd really like to try out. Whilst I thou
IT/Clustering made cheap (Score:2, Interesting)
This could blow all of that away; Just insert the CD in all of the machines in your office, and let fly. Air conditioning? Already accounted for. Power consumption? Not much more than usual. Floorspace? Just a little under everyone's desk.
What I'd like to see would be companies switching over to all-Linux or mostly-Linux shops, running all their machines as an OpenMo
Re:IT/Clustering made cheap (Score:2)
Say this three times fast (Score:2, Funny)
Heh (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Heh (Score:2)
mirrors needed! (Score:2, Interesting)
All I have to say is.. <voice actor="nelson">Ha ha!</voice>
Re:mirrors needed! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:mirrors needed! (Score:3, Informative)
Interesting... (Score:5, Funny)
That's what they said about "Peter Framptom Comes Live" too.
There can only be one ultimate!
Re:Interesting... (Score:2)
<Wayne>Exqueese me? Have I seen this one before? Frampton Comes alive? Everybody's got Frampton Comes Alive. If you lived in the suburbs you were issued it. It came in the mail with samples of "Tide".</Wayne>
clusterKnoppix Mirrors (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.openmosixview.com/cluster
for a crappy yet less bloaty altenative, check out PlumpOS: http://plumpos.sourceforge.net/
Re:clusterKnoppix Mirrors (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:clusterKnoppix Mirrors (Score:2, Funny)
bestoy this man with mod points...
(and go patent the idea while he checks his karma)
Re:clusterKnoppix Mirrors (Score:2)
There is prior art. There are at least three pseudo-spy-ware companies that do this. I will not name them, since I'd rather they disappear into oblivion. An Open Source solution to do this would be awesome, of course.
Re:clusterKnoppix Mirrors (Score:2, Insightful)
http://207.44.142.96/
Re:clusterKnoppix Mirrors (Score:3, Interesting)
That sure puts IBM's e-business on demand to shame.
Re:clusterKnoppix Mirrors (Score:2)
We need something big enough that at
The name needs adjustment (Score:5, Interesting)
I would have chosen Kloppix...the "l" for cluster, the rest is self-explanitory.
Re:The name needs adjustment (Score:3, Funny)
Minimum hardware? (Score:4, Interesting)
That suddenly makes for a VERY cheap grid node. (Didn't want to use the "B" word
Re:Minimum hardware? (Score:3, Informative)
Intel-compatible CPU (i486 or later),
20 MB of RAM for text mode, at least 96 MB for graphics mode with KDE (at least 128 MB of RAM is recommended to use the various office products),
bootable CD-ROM drive,
or a boot floppy and standard CD-ROM (IDE/ATAPI or SCSI),
standard SVGA-compatible graphics card,
serial or PS/2 standard mouse or IMPS/2-compatible USB-mouse.
And for graphics mode, you need a monitor that will support 800x600 for reason
Re:Minimum hardware? (Score:2)
bittorrent (Score:2, Informative)
Re:bittorrent (Score:2, Informative)
Re:bittorrent (Score:2)
Re:bittorrent (Score:3, Informative)
Re: Bittorrent (Score:2)
This is quite possibly the coolest thing I've seen happen in computing in the last ten years, all thanks to Open Source.
Microsoft innovation my ass.
Applications I could run? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Applications I could run? (Score:4, Informative)
With the experimental DSM patches being developed, Apache even runs, but most things like databases and web servers generally don't because they depend on shared memory to work, and shared memory on a cluster is a difficult thing to provide if oyu want any kind of performance.
Re:Applications I could run? (Score:3, Interesting)
I think it won't be long before we have an insta-Apache cluster, insta-mySQL cluster, insta redHat ecomm application cluster... I don't think Oracle's unbreakable claims hold a candle to this:
It is very exciting. (well I dig it!) But not simply because you can use your Mamma's Windoze network without he
Arghhh (Score:2)
Re:Arghhh (Score:2)
I should give this a shot (Score:2, Offtopic)
The contura Aero is particulary annoying because of it's use of a Pcmcia floppy drive, and only 1 type II slot. For those unfamilar, it's not like you can hot swap the floppy and have it still work or anything useful like that.
For me it's either the laptop or a old net terminal for telnet fuctionality, and the laptop takes up
OK, really dumb question here... (Score:4, Interesting)
"openMosix terminal server" - uses PXE, DHCP and tftp to boot linux clients via the network. No CDrom drive/harddisk/floppy needed for the clients
How do the clients work if no CDrom/HD/Floppy is needed? I am trying to wrap my brain around this one. I get the cluster server idea, but then does the server determine which clients on the network will boot into the cluster? Is it via DHCP? Doesn't there need to be *something* on the client side like a HD/floppy/CDrom so it can boot?
Re:OK, really dumb question here... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:OK, really dumb question here... (Score:2)
OK, based on this, it kind of makes sense. But stating "it uses PXE, DHCP, etc etc" isn't much of an indication on how it works. Based on your (and others) response, it can be explained in a sentence or two. I have been using Linux for 5 years now, and have never heard of PXE. In such a diverse and fast-moving world as
Re:OK, really dumb question here... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:OK, really dumb question here... (Score:2)
Re:OK, really dumb question here... (Score:5, Informative)
Basically, the NIC makes a DHCP (or BOOTP) request for an IP address. The DHCP protocol allows the server to return the address of a TFTP (Trivial FTP) server along with the IP address for the client. The client contacts the TFTP server to get a kernel (vmlinuz), and then boots directly into that. From there, the kernel should be configured to mount its filesystems over NFS, and finish the boot process. I'm sure Google can point you to a more complete explanation.
What makes ClusterKnoppix so cool is that it's usually a huge pain to set up a TFTP/DHCP/NFS server correctly for multiple clients. ClusterKnoppix does it all for you, so all you need are some (really) "dumb" clients and all the heavy lifting is done for you.
It should speed up my SETI@home contributions (Score:4, Funny)
really needs to be said (Score:4, Insightful)
Hmmm.... (Score:2, Insightful)
A much better name (Score:3, Interesting)
I would propose the moniker "Cloppix"
Brings to mind images of a certain powerful one eyed giant...
Knoppix (Score:5, Interesting)
It probably would have done so even if any of my latest machines had a floppy drive
I really want to understand... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I really want to understand... (Score:3, Interesting)
sorry to hear that. but really, it isn't "what can i do with this", it is simply, "i can do this". it's like an education, what you do with it is your business, but you have an education and you are able to do so much more. and in fact, try to do this with your msft boxes. it can't be done. because they tell you what you can and can't do. period.
As Louis Armstrong once said (Score:5, Interesting)
You ain't from around these parts, are you? :-)
In all seriousness though, I do think that your MCSE and your Windows environment is limiting you here. I actually think the MCSE should be changed to CMSE, because you are a Certified Microsoft System Engineer. You are taught how to admin Microsoft systems only. It's OK, those are necessary things. But the problem is that you have been taught how to think in a "Microsoft world". There is a lot outside that world. Clustered computing is one of them. A bootable distro (ala Knoppix and others) is another.
I am sure when the bootable floppy distro came out, the MCSE's cried "what would I do with THAT?". Then CDRWs came about, and the bootable floppy turned into the bootable CD distro. The MS crowd said "Neat. Big deal." That has now turned into a bootable cluster server. Who knows where it might go from here. At some point, someone at Microsoft will say(or has already said) "Hey, that is cool. Can we do that?". They will try to buy the technology, and will find it can't be done. And they will try to build it from scratch, and there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
I think it was Louis Armstrong, who when asked what Jazz is, said "Man, if you gotta ask, you'll never know." I am afraid that applies here.
Not Flamebait but a sincere question/comment (Score:2)
I tried out the previous release of the bootable knoppix and found it incredibly cool. But really, WHAT are the uses for this? or cluster knoppix that we should try or be interested? The only use i have for it is as a bootable cd in case my main os installation is trashed and I need to retrieve some files rig
sincere answer (Score:2)
No, the problem with the Linux crowd is when someone says "M$ 5uX0r5!!! U r L4M3!". But I don't really liken that to the Linux community, more to the "wannabe" community. I think my response is not inflammatory at all. I think that because of this guy's MS training, he cannot be open minded. He has been
Re:Not Flamebait but a sincere question/comment (Score:3, Informative)
I think the utility of Knoppix increases dramatically if you tend to be on the move a lot.
In the office, I don't do much with it. But when I'm traveling, it becomes essential. I can stick
Re:I really want to understand... (Score:2)
Well, actually, you've hit it on the head. Some people do massive amounts of computation that cannot be done in a Microsoft environment without a LOT of work. Open Mosix is one way to simplify the parallelization. This new thing is an easier way to set up the Open Mosix grid. Ta da.
I mean, read up on Render Farms, or nuclear simulations. The really big number crunchers...
Re:I really want to understand... (Score:4, Informative)
I'll try to give you an actual response. People have been quick to mention Knoppix CD's for rescue operations -- this doesn't apply to the Clustering feature, just knoppix in general. I used one of these last night to fix my roommate's system which had gotten totally owned and was halting at LILO. Could i have done it with a floppy based linux distro? Probly, but it would've been a bigger pain, because the floppy is small and may not have the tools i need, whereas a CD is big enough to have damn near everything.
That being out of the way - some uses for the cluster disks.
1. say your server (using ClusterKnoppix), which has a hard disk and lots of ram, etc, runs a really dynamic web site which needs lots of CPU. If you see that you're getting shitload of connections you take some other systems that aren't critical, pop in a CD and reboot and add their processors to the pool to help out the web server
2. as has been mentioned, in academic institutions, you could use this to harness the computers down the hall in the public lab for experiments overnight...
3. i don't today, but someday i may need a cluster, and why make it difficult if i can pop a CD in 6 LAN systems and get it going rather than spending a week on configuration. Shit, i've had occasions where my computer was compiling for 3 days straight... would've been nice to fire up a couple of secondary systems to help out...
i suppose you could call these contrived examples, but they're not wholly unrealistic. i think what you're getting at is, "why should normal people care?" which is a good question. is this useful for 90% of computer users? fuck no. 1%? Maybe. it solves the problem of running a cluster which can be simply and arbitrarily resized (keyword simply). If you have no need for a cluster, then you certainly don't care about a resizable one.
keep in mind though, that lots of things can be cool without being useful to yourself. i have no need for a supercomputer, but i still think they're pretty interesting and cool. i think this is a cool technology too, useful for a certain class of problem, and a limited set of users.
that's my 57 yen... for what it's worth.
bittorrent up (Score:5, Informative)
(also added to the main clusterknoppix website)
Re:why won't this work for me :( (Score:2)
BITTORRENT UP! (Score:2, Informative)
Let me see if I understand this (Score:3, Interesting)
So all of the users have some of all of the power of the Mosix cluster?
This could be very very cool. Imagine a whole campus of users running this. Each user would have access to a super computer.
I just wonder how well mosix handles nodes dropping off and back on again. Plus how well will can is scale? Could you have five hundred or a thousand systems off in the cluster. Where is Mr. Barr when you need him?
Re:Let me see if I understand this (Score:5, Informative)
> up with this become a mosix cluster?
an openMosix cluster, not a mosix cluster.
>Then all the users are terminals off of this cluster?
if you want, yes.
> So all of the users have some of all of the power of the
> Mosix cluster?
yes
> I just wonder how well mosix handles nodes dropping
> off and back on again.
if a node goes down for a small time, and then comes back, no problem. if a node goes down for a time long enough to finish his work, processes won't come back where they came from, so you (or your apps or scripts) have to take care of this situation. tipically in a cluster you don't want nodes to go down, never. this can be a situation tipical in a pc laboratory or the like, for an entire campus this probably is not adequate, you need something more "grid computing aware"
>Plus how well will can is scale?
it depends a lot on the speed of the connection between nodes, on the type and amount of traffic generated and so on the type of computation being made, on the number of nodes, on the speed of the clients, etc...
>Could you have five hundred or a thousand systems off in the cluster.
tecnically up to 65535 nodes (last 2 bytes of ipv4 address) if i'm not wrong. i was told biggest cluster of this types count 1-2k nodes, but i'm not sure.
Re:Let me see if I understand this (Score:2)
Computer Lab? (Score:5, Informative)
* "openMosix terminal server" - uses PXE, DHCP and tftp to boot linux clients via the network.
No CDrom drive/harddisk/floppy needed for the clients
* openMosix autodiscovery - new nodes automatically join the cluster (no configuration needed)
* Clustermanagement tools - openMosix userland/openMosixview
* Every node has rootaccess to every other node via ssh/RSAkeys
* MFS/dfsa support
* Every node can run full blown X (PC-room/demo setup) or console only (more memory available)
Aside from the "every node has root access" bit, am I way out in left field thinking that this would make a good computer lab system? Just start up the clients and they pull from the Knoppix central server and you're done. No need to have floppies, or even to bother locking down a system. The student does something screwy to the PC, hit reset and you're back to fresh configuration.
Or am I missing something completely here?
Re:Computer Lab? (Score:4, Informative)
Well, yes, you're missing an equally important point that it is a cluster. X diskless workstations are part of this system but making those X workstations part of a Mosix cluster is what makes this setup interesting.
Re:Computer Lab? (Score:2)
The whole point of LTSP is booting a roomful of machines from one server. A lab would not really need to OpenMosix part unless you wanted to do massive after-hours number crunching.
Cool (Score:2)
Will make "terminal" setups simple (Score:2)
Plus you get mosix tossed in for good measure..
Impressive on first glance.. i know what ill be doing saturday
Useful (Score:3, Funny)
For those times when you have to prove that you are absolutely, positively the biggest nerd at the party.
Re:Hehe Neat (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hehe Neat (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Hehe Neat (Score:3, Interesting)
Mosix works like a big SMP box, no special code is required, so you just fork and forget.
Re:Hehe Neat (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hehe Neat (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hehe Neat (Score:3, Interesting)
Mosix works like a big SMP box, no special code is required, so you just fork and forget.
I can see that that would be extremely cool for processing, but (and excuse my ignorance here), how does this apply to things like network servers? Can I install apache on it and get the benefits of multiple servers without having to do any special configuration? What about database servers?
Re:Hehe Neat (Score:2)
bzzzzt... sorry. (Score:4, Insightful)
It would be nice to run a database or app. server in the mosix cluster with a web front-end. Apache itself will not scale over the cluster.
Re:Hehe Neat (Score:2)
Seems like your box might need the spyware, viruses and trojans cleaning off it
Re:Hehe Neat (Score:2)
40 column web browser
HEY! MY TRS-80 COCO ONLY
HAS 32 COLUMNS - AND NO
LOWERCASE, YOU INSENSITIVE
CLOD!
Re:Awesome... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:hmmm. game servers? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Instant Beowulf Cluster (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Come on, I know you're out there (Score:2)
Ahhh, so you like Mandrake too.
Re:Come on, I know you're out there (Score:2)
Re:Come on, I know you're out there (Score:2)
I include that poor excuse for an OS from Redmond WA.
On a Mac give me OSX 10.2.x or give me death.
I believe in using the best tool for that job at hand. Redmond WA has yet to provide me with the best too.. In my opinion.
Re:Someone is slipping on the job! (Score:2)
Duh..
Re:ObVMSPost (Score:3)
Yeah, exactly. If I want an instant cluster, I can just boot my server off my WindowsXP cd, thank you very much.
Re:ObVMSPost (Score:2)
If that's your belief, I think you're crazy.
Re:BitTorrent = SHIT and still not legal anyway (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Clusters are a bit overhyped (Score:2)
This is true for Beowulf clusters where you need to use libraries like PVM or MPI, but not so with OpenMosix, which is what makes it so interesting and simple to use. It makes your cluster act like one giant SMP machine. If you start many jobs they migrate to whatever node is not busy and distributes the load. Not all software can migrate but most can.
I just setup a 24 CPU OpenMosix cluster, and besides the fact that the UPS melted when my boss first turned