60G Nomad Zen vs. The iPod 673
war3rd writes "According to an article in BetaNews, Creative is going to be releasing an upgraded Nomad Zen at the end of the month that is not only larger than the iPod, but cheaper too. At $400 for 60G ($100 less than the 30G iPod), the new Zen will sport more features, although it may be slightly larger than the newer generation of iPods. I have been putting off buying an MP3 player until I felt that the arms race was settling down, but the new Zen is making my mouth water. So what does the /. community think, are Creative and Apple going to be the top players in this arena? Is it time I jumped onto the bandwagon? One thing is for certain, I am going to be watching the reviews closely."
Viva la Zen!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
The unit also easily stores data files. w00t!
IMHO, the zen is an easy choice - twice the storage, $100 less, tons of reliability, and more features.
Btw, there is also a HUGE Nomad community too! I'll cite Nomadness.net as a great example. Good forums and good Nomad news.
Should add AAC (Score:2)
Then I could actually sit at my desk and try to decide - iPod, or Zen. If for no other reason than I like competition.
Re:Should add AAC (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Should add AAC (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Viva la Zen!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Also the Nomad Jukebox 3 (not the current Zen) has optical-in recording to MP3 or wave. It's not as simple as pressing record on a portable MiniDisc recorder, but it works in a pinch.
Re:Viva la Zen!!! (Score:2)
It's like using Windows Explorer to transfer music files and data files. Just drag and drop! Mindless.
Drag and drop, shmrag and pop. (Score:5, Insightful)
For data files, yeah, I guess I have to do the drag and drop. But for music, I'll stick to "plug and un-plug"
While I prefer the iPod, I enjoy the competition because it only make both products better in the long run. And that benefits me, and isn't that what it is all about?
right on the money (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:right on the money (Score:5, Interesting)
Then the next question the Creative guy goes to is about 48kHz sample rates! The CEO of Creative wants you to use Windows Media and he doesn't even realize that 48kHz is itself like the Windows Media format of the 1980's.
The 48kHz sample rate was chosen by the RIAA for "consumer" digital audio recording (DAT, MiniDisc, Hi8) so as to make it harder to make CD's from those recordings.
The small increase in quality you get by sampling at 48kHz instead of 44.1kHz does not pay for the HUGE decrease in audio quality you get by a Sample Rate Reduction from 48kHz to 44.1kHz. It's more destructive than converting to analog and then back to digital with good converters.
To still be talking 48kHz in 2003 is abysmal. The next rate that's useful above 44.1 is 96kHz, which is high up enough and done at 24-bit or 32-bit and gains you so much quality that you can then come down to 44.1 right at the end and you're better than if you stayed there through the whole process.
Creative's stuff is sub-par. It's good PC gear but it's not good audio gear. iPod is both good PC gear and good audio gear.
In short, iPod and Apple are MUSICAL ALREADY. Creative are not as creative as Apple.
Re:Drag and drop, shmrag and pop. (Score:4, Informative)
That's not exactly rocket science or a complex programming effort. Rather, it's a five line USB hotplug script on Linux (using rsync) that works with every player: iPod, Zen, whatever.
Re:Drag and drop, shmrag and pop. (Score:3, Insightful)
For 98% of the population a "five line USB hotplug script" is rocket science and a complex programming effort.
"Normal" users should even need to think about this sort of stuff.
Re:Drag and drop, shmrag and pop. (Score:3, Insightful)
A Wal-Mart subset of the iTunes Music Store will be in the next AOL client.
Please don't say "death" and "Apple" in the same sentence unless it is something that actually has happened and is a fact. I mean, we've heard it all before.
Also, the service is already successful. They sold more songs in the first day than all the other paid download services ever built
Re:Viva la Zen!!! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Viva la Zen!!! (Score:5, Informative)
Oh, and you speak as if there is not a HUGE iPod community? Ever been to http://www.ipodlounge.com/ and the 1000+ pictures of iPod around the world?
Re:Viva la Zen!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Wow! That's definitely worth the extra $100.
Re:Viva la Zen!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
60 GB is worthless if the software sucks. The integration between iTunes, iSync, and the iPod make for an excellent product that I don't have to spend any extra time fiddling with to get it to work.
Judging from other posts here, and on the source article, it seems like existing and prior Nomad Zen products aren't exactly all they're cracked up to be.
You pay more for high quality stuff, and the iPod _is_ high quality. Its not perfect, but what is?
Re:Viva la Zen!!! (Score:5, Informative)
It does not play WMAs though.
Or get an Archos + OSS Rockbox! (Score:4, Interesting)
One of the best things about the Archos is the OSS Rockbox firmware at http://rockbox.haxx.se/ [rockbox.haxx.se]. New features are continually being added that make the Archos a very cool device. Plus, if you aren't happy with the way it works, just hack it yourself! The Rockbox source is very well written and easy to hack. Plus it has games.
Re:Or get an Archos + OSS Rockbox! (Score:3, Funny)
No sale.
Re:Or get an Archos + OSS Rockbox! (Score:4, Informative)
Other cool features of the Archos: MP3 recording, FM tuning & recording (on the FM recorder models, not currently supported in rockbox), built-in batteries are rechargable AA's, so a spare set is easy & cheap (except the FM model).
One caveat... Be sure to get either the Recorder or FM recorder model, not the Player or Multimedia. The player is supported by Rockbox, but due to hardware limitations & a bad interface, isn't a good choice. The Multimedia is not supported by Rockbox, and likely never will be. Who really wants to watch movies on a postage stamp size screen anyway.
iPod (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:iPod (Score:3, Interesting)
I currently have 5 GB of music, and 2 GB of data stored on my 20 GB iPod.
Re:iPod (Score:2, Insightful)
That, and all this AAC stuff... is a 128kb AAC really as great as Apple insists? From what I've read, it is better than a 128kb MP3, but if you're ripping a decent VBR MP3 then it really isn't any better. That, and MP3s are, well, compatible on with hardware and software. AAC won't be a selling point u
Re:iPod (Score:3, Informative)
Here [dolby.com] is a page that describes the fact that Dolby supports AAC, but it doesn't look like it has anything to do with "Dolby Digital Surround sound".
Re:iPod (Score:5, Interesting)
I do think so. My 10GB iPod is full, 100% legal-i-ripped-them-from-CDs-I-own mp3s at only 128kb. With just the CDs I *currently* own, I could fill a 30GB iPod with 128kb AAC files, I probably have about 40GB of 128kb AAC I could rip legally. That will only increase as time goes on.
I think the better question is, when is video coming? I mean imagine a 120GB drive and a 3 inch color screen all in an almost iPod sized device - that you could use to play MPEG4 video...
mmm - Future is tasty and on order for delivery soon...
Re:iPod (Score:2)
Also, I don't know about these other players, but the archos can be used as a USB 2.0 drive, so even if you didn't have enough music, you'd probably be able to use the space somehow.
As soon as my warranty expires, I'm going to see if I can replace the drive with something bigger.
Re:iPod (Score:2, Informative)
Only one includes: (Score:2)
And if that isnt enough the new iPods come with solitare (and laser engraving)!
Looking at my 60gb music collection (10,052 songs) I might consider the Zen, but I only kid myself when I say for mp3's (and an OSX emergency start drive) I need more than my 10gb pod.
Re:iPod (Score:3, Insightful)
Just because you can't fill 60 Gigs with music doesn't mean there is nobody who can fill 60 Gigs. If an average CD is about 50 MB of MP3 files, that is 1200 CDs for 60 Gigs. I'm sure I'm not the only person here with more than 1200 CDs. On other boards I've been on, some have more than 3000 CDs.
Do you need to have access to all of your CDs everywhere you? Of course not. But there will come a day when you install 1199 CDs on your por
Re:iPod (Score:3, Insightful)
You realise that WMA is actually very high quality right? They had some seriously smart bunnies work on the Windows Media codecs. I don't know how it compares to AAC, but I know it blows MP3 away, so I'd guess it's strongly competitive.
What you say? It's a proprietary format? Yup, but hey, if you pay the right price Microsoft will license it to you - just like with AAC. Oh and they both have some kind of DRM too.
Re:iPod (Score:4, Informative)
Does size matter? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Does size matter? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Does size matter? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Does size matter? (Score:2)
Article (Score:5, Informative)
The NOMAD Jukebox Zen sports a sleek aluminum case and USB 2.0 connectivity for fast song transfers. Creative has priced the Zen at $400, $100 cheaper than Apple's new 30GB iPod.
"We've heard from our users that they would love to see a huge capacity NOMAD Jukebox Zen to take their entire music library and their digital files wherever they go," said Creative CEO Sim Wong Hoo. "And of course they demanded a great price. With the NOMAD Jukebox Zen with 60GB we've delivered a breakthrough capacity in a portable player."
Creative claims a battery life of 14 hours in the NOMAD Jukebox Zen, slightly higher than that of the iPod. The Zen offers the ability to edit playlists directly on the device, and a "Find" function to quality search thousands of songs. An optional FM Wired Remote is also available featuring an FM tuner and microphone.
But despite Creative's superior capacity and lower price, Apple has leapfrogged its competitors in terms of dollar market share. According to NPDTechworld, Apple held 27 percent of the market in the fourth quarter of last year, followed by S3's Rio unit with 10 percent.
Apple's third generation iPods debut May 2, while Creative expects to ship the 60GB NOMAD Jukebox Zen later this month.
Battery Life (Score:2)
The batteries - AA, or rechargable? I once had a Jukebox that was suppose to be able to charge via a separate AC adapter, but it would be nice if it could charge via USB 2.0. Just because I like less cords.
Re:Battery Life (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Battery Life (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Battery Life (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Article (Score:5, Informative)
The new iPods also allow you to edit playlists directly on the device ("On-The-Go" playlists), and I haven't seen a better interface yet than the iPod wheel/column browser for digging into thousands of files.
You could previously use the iPod wheel to change the volume of the current track or scrub back and forth through it. Another neat feature on the new iPods is that you can now also enter a "rate this song" mode and adjust the rating for tracks on the fly. These ratings get passed back to iTunes next time you sync, so you can set up playlists to do things like "Whenever I plug my iPod in, automatically fill it up with random songs I haven't heard in a while that I rated 3 stars or higher".
This press release is just basic marketing FUD - they're just touting the length of their (future) feature list, and forgetting that it's the integration with iTunes/etc that makes the iPod work so well.
Re:Article (Score:5, Insightful)
The new On-The-Go playlists for the iPod allow you to add songs to the playlist and clear playlists. When you plug the iPod into your Mac for syncing, the On-The-Go playlist is automatically wiped.
On the Nomad, you can not only create playlists, but you can name them, and they will persist on the device. I don't know about the software for Windows but I assume it syncs back the playlists from the Nomad.
Now, I love my iPod; I bought a 10G iPod last August and just bought a 30G one when they came out last week. That said, nobody benefits from this kind of rabid, ill-informed advocacy.
Next time you want to make an argument for the iPod against the Nomad, make sure you have all the facts. If you're not willing to do that, don't waste people's time.
Re:Article (Score:2)
Ipod: 6.2 oz (30 gig). Nomad: 9.5 oz
Ipod: 4.1 by 2.4 by 0.73 Nomad: 75.9 x 112.6 x 24.5 mm (anyone have a translation?)
Re:Article (Score:5, Informative)
Nomad: 112.6 x 75.9 x 24.5 mm
Ipod: 104.1 x 58.8 x 18.54 mm
-or-
Nomad: 4.43 by 2.99 by 0.96 inches
Ipod: 4.1 by 2.4 by 0.73 inches
Price (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Price (Score:2)
Re:Price (Score:2, Interesting)
Granted, it doesn't have OGG support, but it's small (in more than one way), stylist, and under $100US.
It even uses a Lithium-ION battery.
Disclaimer: I do not work for any of the companies mentioned.
Re:Price (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not a big OGG guy myself, but I wonder why manufacturers aren't including OGG support in their players? It's royalty free so it seems like a win-win situation to me. Doesn't cost them anything to include it except a little more R&D maybe, and it's going to attract at least a few more people.
Any thoughts?
Re:Price (Score:3, Insightful)
You have to balance the amount of money it costs on development against the number of new users it'll attract.
Outside the /. community - that number is extremely low compaired to MP3. Hell, probably even in the /. community the number is rather low (they're just very vocal).
Therefore companies find it very difficult to justify this sort of cost for very little gain - especi
Problems with the Creative (Score:2)
But I have zero confidence in Creative's drivers. Anyone who owns a SoundBlaster card and runs Windows can attest to how crap they are.
Re:Problems with the Creative (Score:2)
It is both larger and maybe slightly larger! (Score:5, Insightful)
Zen Looks Great (Score:2, Informative)
The iPod is awesome, but you are paying for the apple name and commercialization. Save some money.
Re:Zen Looks Great (Score:5, Insightful)
I understand this... I used to believe it too. The error is in assuming that the alternatives are all essentially equal... all mp3 players play mp3's, and computers are equal save for the speed of the processor.
That's not the case. I can't explain it other than saying that there is a design quality and esthetic that is different in the Apple products. You won't believe it until you own one, but once you do, you understand the price difference, and realize it is negligible... that in fact all MP3 players are not the same. All computers are not the same.
I boycotted XP and switched to Mac, while cursing the increased cost. Not any more. I recognize the difference between my Mac and my PC, and I know the differences are well in excess of the cost.
Same is true with my iPod. It's the 3rd MP3 device I've owned, and it's cheaper compared to buying other devices, not using them, and having to re-buy an iPod.
That's my take. Hate to sound like a ravenous Mac-head, but... well... I am one. Now.
All i want (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe the next logical progression would be to sport a small plasma screen and play dvd's and divx. These things already had enough room.
Re:All i want (Score:4, Insightful)
They have video players. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:All i want (Score:5, Informative)
Also plays MP#'s AND RECORDS IN MP3!!!!
Just to let ya know it also takes still pics and VIDEOS !!! All this for $359.00 Oh yes interface is USB 2.0.
It can never be too large (Score:3, Interesting)
Why so many songs? I got tired of carrying around a CD player and so many CDs. And even if I brought 100 CDs on a long trip, I'd always find myself in the mood for something I had left behind. No with my entire collection at hand, I always have everything I want.
Can it record? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Can it record? (Score:2)
Re:Can it record? (Score:5, Interesting)
Except the iPod WORKS (Score:2)
Formats? (Score:2, Troll)
A man can dream...
Who needs 60 gigs? (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think one no longer should judge the players by storage capacity, as they both have plenty. If you look at the user interface and design, no-one even comes close to the iPod! And now Apple is even developing iTunes for windows as well, so soon winPod users will be able to use the best media player available!
Re:Who needs 60 gigs? (Score:4, Informative)
Huh?? The iPod makes up around 27% of the mp3 player market [thinksecret.com] and according to Jobs, 58% of their sales are to windows users. Not a big market? 700k [techtv.com] * .58 = ~406,000 windows units sold. I'd say that's a fair amount of windows iPod users.
As for iTunes, MusicMatch on Windows works with the iPod just fine in the meantime.
psxndc
Size matters (Score:5, Informative)
According to my calculation, the Nomad Zen is over twice the size (volume) of the iPod and 60% heavier.
Apple iPod (Gen 3)
103.5mm(H)*61.8mm(W)*15.7mm(D) = ~100k cubic mm and 158 grams
Nomad Zen
112.6*75.9*24.5 = ~209k cubic mm at 268g.
Furthermore, the set of functionalities that the two players offer are different (sync vs FM capability for example) so their value to user is highly different.
While I like iPod to support other formats (WMA and Vorbis Ogg) but I am satisified with AAC and MP3 for now.
Re:Size matters (Score:2, Insightful)
Consider this:
1.3*1.3*1.3=2.197
So a 30% increase in each of the dimensions could more than double the volume of an object.
As for the increased mass, just consider that it is probably carrying around double the platters of the iPod, and an internal disk drive enclosure to hold them.
All in all, I'd st
Re:Size matters (Score:2, Informative)
Apple - Gen 3 iPod stas from Apple Japan [apple.co.jp]
Nomad - Nomad 20GB version [nomadworld.com]
Re:Size matters (Score:3, Informative)
theres also something to be said about the new ipods face being completly sealed... ie. no more dustbunnies (dont know if it comes with covers for the IO ports)
and, really, the ipod just is a marvel of engeneering, design, and ergonomics compared to anythying else. Also take in to account its VERy easy to do all song
Already been done... (Score:3, Informative)
More recently, a guy has created a complete guide [blurbdesigns.com] to upgrading your Creative Labs Jukebox Zen to 30/40/60GB.
Enjoy!
Apple's new music service (Score:2)
Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
See, I've used Creative audio products since the days of the original SoundBlaster... and Creative really doesn't do as good of a job as they used to. These days they have horrible drivers, false advertising, and practically nonexistent tech support. They release a new driver update around every six MONTHS, even when there are dozens of outstanding bugs to fix; and cards like the Audigy barely did half of the things they advertised on the box and on websites.
So anyway, this thing sounds cool... but if I were you, I wouldn't buy one without finding out a LOT about it and making sure I'm really getting my money's worth. You really can't trust Creative anymore.
sigh, so painfully true (Score:5, Interesting)
It's been over two years since Creative bought out Aureal, and they still have neither released a card that supports Aureal's A3D 2.0 standard (still lightyears ahead of any version of EAX), nor open-sourced the drivers for the old Aureal cards.
I can't think of a single hardware company I'd be less likely to give my money to. (What, me bitter about my old Diamond MX300? Why yes.)
Re:sigh, so painfully true (Score:4, Informative)
If only they'd just stop buying companies that make cool stuff and turing it to shit...
Bring on the Canadian Tariff Posts!!! (Score:4, Informative)
They have revised the rate structure though:
Before they proposed $21.00/GB which would have added $1,260 to the cost of this box.
Now the rate strucure looks like:
1 GB or less 11.1 cents/MB
$11.50 on 1st GB
$7.98/gb on Gbs 2 to 5
$5.98/gb on Gbs 6 to 10
$3.99/gb on Gbs 11 to 20
$1.99/gb on Gbs 21 or greater
I'll leave the calculation on a 60GB drive as an exercise for the reader.
Re:Bring on the Canadian Tariff Posts!!! (Score:3, Informative)
Creative? No Way. (Score:3, Insightful)
Since the Live!, Everything of their's I've purchased and/or used has been flakey: 3/4 of the way done, but never quite all the way.
I'm a person who doesn't like to settle for "good enough", and Creative's stuff is consistently a notch below "good enough" for me.
At this point I can't imagine anything coming close to the iPod in terms of usability, features, or aesthetics. Certainly not anything from Creative.
More than "slightly larger." (Score:2)
Is the difference all that important? Maybe not, but of the two the Apple iPod is certainly the sleeker, and that
Big enough? (Score:3, Insightful)
I know someone will say they have 30 gig of tunes and want all of it all the time. This to me is simple geek nonsense. You can't listen to that much in a reasonable fashion. Further needing it all probably says more about poor software and hardware than anything else. (IMO)
I use my iPod in my car and at the gym and at work. (To drown out my co-worker's Rush Limbaugh at times) I honestly can't imagine *why* you need more than perhaps 20 gig. I honestly can't.
If you are using it as a portable hard drive then, OK. I can understand. But the reason I like the iPod is that while it functions as a small hard drive for a few files, it is primarily a *player*.
Re:Big enough? (Score:4, Insightful)
This is nothing new. How many times have we heard " is enough for anyone". Time almost always proves such staters incorrect. I replace my first HDD within 2 weeks because 20Mb wasn't enough. The 30Mb I got to replace it filled quickly and needed I more but couldn't afford it. This cycle has been repeated for for aboput 17 years now.
Caveat Emptor
The Zen has always had more features and yet, (Score:4, Interesting)
The iPod has better construction.
The iPod will work with the iTunes Music Store when it comes out for Windows later this year. The Zen won't. What does it work with, WMA's? Yes, for those wonderful WMA music stores that are all the rage nowadays.
The iPod is kicking its ass in the marketplace, and for good reason.
This isn't that complicated... (Score:5, Insightful)
-The size of today's ipod or smaller
-Storage capacity of 5GB+
-FM Radio (I like to get NPR without carrying around a seperate device)
-Good sound quality
-Formats: MP3, WMA, AAC, and OGG
-Price: $250
I think this is easily achievable with today's technology. My money awaits the first company to make one.
Zen almost gets it but too big. IPod almost gets it but no FM tuner.
Re:This isn't that complicated... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:This isn't that complicated... (Score:3, Interesting)
The numbers please.... (Score:2)
Size: 75.9 x 112.6 x 24.5 mm
Weight: 268g
ipod:
Size: 104.1 x 60.9 x 15.75 mm (18.5 mm for the 30 gb model)
Weight: 158g (176g for the 30gb model)
So the Zen at ~209.4 cc's is more than twice the size and almost 70% heavier than the 10 and 15 gig ipods (99 cc's), and still nearly twice as big and over 50% heavier than the 30 gig ipod.
That's more than a little bigger - it's the difference from dragging down your cargo pants and slipping into a shirt pocket. The new ipods are *TINY*. There is NO compa
Slightly larger? (Score:2)
The Nomad is also 50% heavier.
And the kicker, the Nomad numbers are for the 20GB model, compared to the 30GB iPod. I couldn't find numbers for the 60GB version. I have no idea how the size and weight of the 60GB model compare to the 20GB model. Personally, I would bet larger over smaller.
For those that haven't held it, the old iPod was almost identical in size to a d
Creative-ly shoddy support (Score:5, Informative)
Anywho, I take care of my devices. The Jukebox still has the plastic covering the LCD. Ghetto, ya dig?
I engaged in an epic duel with Creative's tech support via e-mail. Sending extremely detailed reports to them, and met in return with extremely canned responses. Most often, the responses asked questions that I had already answered in the previous mail. Obviously, this wasn't going anywhere.
To make matters worse, it had been over the '6 to 8 week' waiting period and I still had no rebate check. Customer Service said 'sorry' and acknowledged the irony that the unit was out of warranty and broken before Creative could even be bothered to mail my rebate. And by that I mean they didn't acknowledge the irony. At all. They just didn't care.
Instead of pursuing the matter further with Creative's customer service, I used the 'protection' feature of my credit card to reimburse me for the unit, and swore off Creative for future products.
I don't doubt the Nomads have gotten better through the revisions. However, I try to judge a company equally between the good products they make and how they handle thier failures.
Buyer beware.
Here are some stats... (Score:3, Informative)
Size
iPod: 4.1 x 2.4 x 0.73 inches
Zen: 3 x 4.4 x 1 inches
Weight
iPod: 6.2 ounces
Zen: 9.5 ounces
It should also be noted that the Zen can get FM radio stations with an optional remote control and can use USB 2 or Firewire. The iPod has a bigger screen, but it can only use Firewire. In addition to mp3 format, the Zen supports WMA and WAV. The iPod supports mp3 and AAC audio.
Re:Here are some stats... (Score:4, Informative)
No, the new iPods support USB2 and FireWire. In fact, the current Nomad Zen only supports USB2 or FireWire (the FireWire model only supports USB1.1; hopefully this will change with the new version). And the iPod also supports WAV (and AIFF and Audible).
Archos AV320 (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.04/play.htm
http://shanebrinkmandavis.com/homepage/JBMM/Prere
iPod and Nomad both pale compared to Archos (Score:3, Informative)
- 20gb (40gb coming)
- 8 hr battery life
- DivX video playback to Tv or screen
- built in 1.5in lcd screen (in color natch)
- Awesome sound controls
- USB 2.0 and Firewire (natch)
- Optional SmartMedia and Compact Flash readers
- Optional 1.2 mega pixel still and video camera
- MP3 recording via built-in mic or external
- Video recording module
- Remote Control
- ALL of these items (including optionals) come in cheaper then an iPod!!
P.S. I used mine daily for the last 6 months and it's incredible! Someone once asked me if it was solidly built. I threw it over my shoulder to demonstrate bounced it off my floor picked it up and it hadn't missed a beat!
Now the cons to be fair:
- The battery isn't easily changed
- The playlist support does NOT match the iPods
- The camera attachment needs a flash
- Video recording module has mixed reviews
Oh and it does NOT play Ogg/Vorbis. But would you people please get over it! Nothing portable plays my
Why you want huge disks (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's why: Imagine you have 40 GB of tunes (not that many once you rip them at good quality, and you finish doing all your cd's). Now imagine you have a 20 GB player. It's all well and fun to carry half your tunes around, but you find yourself saying 'what about CD X'? No problem, just put it on the player. But first you need to remove another CD. And once you have thousands of tracks, and start getting sick of some CD's and want to rotate in others, you realize it's a Massive Pain In The Ass. After a few gigs, the ideal is to just have all your music and skip the rigamarole. The alternative is to just never get around to listening to half your music which is the problem I was trying to avoid in buying an iPod in the first place (swapping CD's from my storage binders to my little travel binder).
Zen sucks if you use Linux... (Score:5, Informative)
The iPod on the other hand, appears as a mass storage device (generic SCSI hard drive on top of Firewire). You can easily "mount" the iPod and use "cp" to copy files to it. This is very different from the Zen, which appears as a random USB device and requires special programs and scripts to put data onto it.
I bought a Nomad Zen 20GB USB 2.0 for $212 and I think it was a waste of money. I'll probably give it to someone who uses Windows and buy an iPod.
creeping featurism (Score:5, Insightful)
On my computer, I organize my MP3s using the file system. E.g., if I want to listen to "Dark Side of the Moon", it's in "music/rock/Pink Floyd/Dark Side of the Moon". I've got xmms open, and I keep the "add dir" window opened, which has a nice tree view, so to play an album, I simply double click on it in that window, and hit play over in the main window.
So, for an MP3 player, I just want something that I can copy my music directory to, and then access via a simple interface.
This is what I like about my Archos 15 gig, which was $180. It simply works the way I do...it doesn't ask me to buy into some grand unified vision of music management like the others seem to.
Archos Multimedia Jukebox (Score:3, Informative)
I have a 20gig Archos Jukebox. It's a souped up mp3 player. In additition to storing and playing mp3s, the thing has a little LCD screen, and it plays MOVIES! Or it can output the signal to a TV.
Additionally, it has compact flash and SD adaptors, so you can download the pictures from your camera to the device. This is handy when travelling: you can empty your CF cards and browse photos on the Archos whenever you feel like.
Additional size is always a plus, but stats rarely tell the whole story.
Witold
www.witold.org
My Zen/iPod Experiences (Score:4, Informative)
After using the Zen extensively, I returned it for an iPod.
Initially, I was attracted to the Zen for these reasons:
- Price Value
- "Playlist on the Fly" Options
- Expandability
- FM Radio / Radio Recording / Voice Recording (with add-on remote)
- Looks.
Everyone here who has been ragging on the Zen's looks has a) never seen one in real life or b) has no tastes
I ended up returning it for these reasons:
- The user-interface was AWFUL (IMHO). To get to a particular artist would take me at least twice as long as it takes me on my iPod. Little quirks - like having to scroll to "OPEN" before you could browse an artist or album got annoying pretty quick.
- The screen is small.. it's still very usable, but not nearly as easy-to-see as the iPod's.
- The scroll-wheel was a bear to use, and scrolling through long lists was not fun (this was after a firmware-upgrade, which improved this problem somewhat).
- The buttons were not overly-easy to press, which made using the Zen a challenge when using one hand. This wasn't a huge problem, but after seeing how easy the iPod is to use, I realized how the Zen is lacking in this area.
- There are NO accessories for the Zen (unlike the iPod, which has cases, stands, docking stations, etc, etc.) - This alone, however, was hardly a deal breaker, but being stuck with Creative's case wasn't fun (it's bulky and ugly).
---
Oh, one other significant difference between the two is the support you will be getting if you ever have a problem with your player. From everything I've read, Creative's 90 day-support is anywhere from "decent" to "awful", and Apple's 1 year support is nothing short of amazing (this is simply based on stories I've heard, not any statistics). Still, I was uncomfortable owning the Zen knowing that Creative only supported it for 90 days.. that's unacceptable for a consumer product of that price.
People like to compare the software that goes along with each of the players, but that's pretty trivial IMO. For the Zen, get Notmad Explorer (It'll save you a LOT of headaches), and for the iPod, get ephPod (It'll save you a LOT of headaches). Both of those programs are amazing, and make transferring to your portable-player a cinch.
I'm now a happy owner of an Apple iPod (a 20-gigger). Using some coupon codes I found for Dell, it only cost me about $420 - which is only $70 more than the $350 Zen (they discontinued the Zen's rebate, correct?). If FM-Radio, voice recording, WMA support, or expandability are essential to you, by all means, go with the Zen. Otherwise, I'd recommend the iPod to anybody.
Of course, before you buy EITHER player, you should go down to your local CompUSA and hold both of them in your hands. This is important, do not skip this step!
If anyone has any questions about either player, just ask...
Raven001
Re:I'll go for the cheaper one this time... (Score:5, Informative)
Hmm. I updated [apple.com] mine just fine...
Neuros set to support Ogg (Score:4, Informative)
Archos Supports Macs (Score:4, Informative)