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News Sites Getting to Know You

Posted by michael on Sat Jun 29, 2002 11:40 PM
from the suddenly-i'm-bright-and-breezy dept.
The Online Journalism Review has a story about more and more news sites requiring registration. Has assorted facts and figures, including how much sites' traffic dropped when registration was required. Even though a fair percentage of people just make up the data they are asked to provide, I'd guess that as a statistical measure it's probably pretty accurate - many people would tell the truth without caring that they're being tracked.

As a general matter, Slashdot's policy on linking to registration-required websites goes something like this:

The New York Times is okay, because they've got a lot of high-quality stories and they were essentially grandfathered in;

Other registration-required sites are not okay, and we won't post stories linking to them.

Kind of a shame, because the LA Times has some good content too, and we've posted lot of links to them in the past, before they went registration-required. Oh well.

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  • My viewpoint by caesar79 (Score:2) Saturday June 29 2002, @11:44PM
  • by pympdaddyc (586298) on Saturday June 29 2002, @11:45PM (#3794404)
    Well, for things like /. , where there's a lot of "people power" in terms of mod'ing comments and the like, I can see why its useful. But why (and I'm not complaining, I just don't understand) does NYTimes.com require it to read their stories? Marketing research? I have a hard time believing online registrations are doing them anything worthwhile (given how many times *I've* BS'ed a seemingly useless registration) in terms of research.
    • Re:I never did understand online registration... by reaper20 (Score:3) Saturday June 29 2002, @11:51PM
    • by eddy the lip (20794) on Sunday June 30 2002, @12:16AM (#3794499)

      Actually, they get a lot of mostly-accurate data. I've participated in the development of more than a a few sites that had some form of registration - either for community sites or for sites where you get extra stuff if you provide a bit of personal info. The amount of legit info you get is much greater than the number of "booger@nose.net" addresses that show up.

      Fact is, most people are one, or some of:

      • new to being online (~50% of anyone surfing today started within the last year) and don't realize what happens when their email address gets out.
      • don't realize that spam isn't just a force of nature, and that how much they get is increased by how often they hand out their email address. They think it just happens.
      • don't value their privacy in the same way that you and I do. They consider handing over where they live, who they are and whether they were boxers or briefs to be par for the course
      • consider it an equitable trade. It's just information, after all.
      • don't care. Gimme more cheez whiz.

      On the plus side, most sites don't seem to do much with the data they have, but that won't last.

      It's unfortunate, but the vast majority of people don't realize the commercial trends they're enabling when they give in to this kind of thing. I'm facing the day when I have to start telling clients "it's a great idea to get people's addresses and then email them as much crap as you can" because it will be good business sense.

      God, I hate that phrase. Probably time for me to get into landscaping.

      [ Parent ]
    • by JordanH (75307) on Sunday June 30 2002, @01:19AM (#3794607) Homepage Journal
      • I have a hard time believing online registrations are doing them anything worthwhile ...

      I always thought it was just a simple way to prevent deep linking. Sure, you can link to a NYT story, but you'll stop and realize that the NYT is bringing it to you and not whiznews.com.

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:I never did understand online registration... by cheezehead (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @03:18AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • NYT Random Login Generator (Score:4, Troll)

    by akiy (56302) on Saturday June 29 2002, @11:47PM (#3794415) Homepage
    We just need more sites like this one [majcher.com]...
  • Spoofed registration? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by griffjon (14945) <{moc.liamtoH} {ta} {noJffirG}> on Saturday June 29 2002, @11:48PM (#3794420) Homepage Journal
    Surely everyone uses variants of the cyberpunk login (Which sadly no longer works on WSJ online like it did for so many years -- but I'm sure one of the variants still does)? Or slashdot/slashdot? I mean, I have entire fake personalities I use for just these occasions. Link away! most /.ers know better than to give email addresses that are used for anything but spamcatchers.

    Traffic dropping is a no-brainer: registration requires a bit more than click-and-drool, so that rules AOLers out, but I'd wager only a small percentage of the total drop is due to people concerned about privacy.

    Which is a shame, but such is life.

    Feed inaccurate data to the collectors, and have fun.
  • It's easy to see why... by URoRRuRRR (Score:1) Saturday June 29 2002, @11:49PM
  • Good enough for /., good enough for me by silentbozo (Score:2) Saturday June 29 2002, @11:49PM
  • 10 million? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by EvilStein (414640) <spam@@@pbp...net> on Saturday June 29 2002, @11:50PM (#3794425) Homepage
    "The New York Times on the Web has required registration since the site launched in January 1996. The Times has topped 10 million active registered users."

    ....6 million came from Slashdot articles and 2 million came from people that re-registered after blasting their stored passwords in Internet Explorer.
  • Why not (Score:3, Interesting)

    by theRhinoceros (201323) on Saturday June 29 2002, @11:50PM (#3794428)
    ...have the mods create a uname/pw combination included in each relevant linked story and let the general /. population use those?
    • Re:Why not by muon1183 (Score:2) Saturday June 29 2002, @11:58PM
      • Re:Why not by muon1183 (Score:1) Monday July 01 2002, @12:48AM
    • Re:Why not by Jade E. 2 (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @02:26AM
  • News sites need this ... by smoondog (Score:2) Saturday June 29 2002, @11:52PM
  • What??? by GrandCow (Score:2) Saturday June 29 2002, @11:54PM
  • Trinidad and Tobago by naejulak (Score:1) Saturday June 29 2002, @11:54PM
  • The future of other news sites. by dirvish (Score:2) Saturday June 29 2002, @11:56PM
  • hypocrite! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Saturday June 29 2002, @11:56PM
  • Belo registration by numbuscus (Score:1) Saturday June 29 2002, @11:59PM
  • About online registration... by bastard01 (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @12:00AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • NY times (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mister sticky (301125) on Sunday June 30 2002, @12:01AM (#3794465)
    i've never read the NY times, although i have seen a daily publication (which isn't necessarily the norm in Canada) and it is HUGE.
    I have also noticed that over the last month or two /. has posted a more than the average number of articles that were taken from the NYT.

    The problem that i see with the statement that they accept posts from NYT but not from other news sources that require reg is that the registration is seen as an issue for everyone but NYT.

    So why should the New York Times receive any favouritism in this respect??

    You said it yourself, anyone who knows what these statistics can be used for will use fake information. I would say that anyone who reads /. and bothers to read the articles won't bow to the registration info, so what is the point of censuring other sites?

    It simply looks to me to be a bias towards NYT, and as far as i've seen over the last month or so, the number of NYT articles posted points to this reality...

    IAN
    • Re:NY times (Score:4, Interesting)

      by guttentag (313541) on Sunday June 30 2002, @03:40AM (#3794868) Journal
      Let's look at newspaper front pages from a recent big news day (Thursday):

      I would post examples from The NYTimes, but they don't let you see previous issues of the paper online for free. However, as I recall their picks closely mirrored The Washington Post's:

      The Washington Post [washingtonpost.com]
      Top Story: Cyber-Attacks by Al Qaeda Feared [washingtonpost.com]
      No. 2 Story: SEC Charges WorldCom With Fraud [washingtonpost.com]
      No. 3 Story: U.S. Court Votes to Bar Pledge of Allegiance [washingtonpost.com]

      The Los angeles Times [latimes.com]
      Top Story: 'Tweens: From Dolls to Thongs [latimes.com]
      One of the store mannequins wears a fringed denim skirt riding low on the hips and a top pushed high on the midriff. Another has shorts that roll down on the tummy and a one-shoulder top.
      No. 2 Story: Pledge of Allegiance Violates Constitution, Court Declares [latimes.com]
      No. 3 Story: WorldCom Hit With Federal Fraud Lawsuit [latimes.com]

      The Los Angeles Times shows a consistent bias toward "Reader's Digest" type stories that are entertaining and give you something to gossip about but don't really tell you anything of value. I also get the sense that many LA Times reporters are really failed screenplay writers who can't let go of the need to create drama. However, they do occasionally print something worth reading.

      The LA Times is owned by The Chicago Tribune [chicagotribune.com] , which puts even less original content on its Web site and is more "in-your-face" about pressuring you to subscribe.

      I suspect Slashdot would link to The Wall Street Journal [wsj.com] more often if the paper made more than 1% of its content available to non-paying subscribers. (I had a paid subscription to wsj.com for about a year, but I no longer do because it's just not worth that much to me.)

      I'd like to read Le Monde [lemonde.fr] , but the French refuse to publish an English version. Go figure.

      All of Knight-Ridder's newspapers (The San Jose Mercury News [bayarea.com] , Miami Herald [miami.com] , Philadelphia Inquirer [philly.com] , et al) have been crippled by the "RealCities Network" which forces all of its sites to use the same content-poor, ad-rich design. The saddest story of the group is the SJMercury though, which has just fallen apart since the parent company began slashing costs and forcing the RealCities conformity on its once industry-leading site. The Miami Herald is an unofficial training school for future Washington Post reporters, but that doesn't matter if you can't find their content on the Web.

      Slashdot doesn't link to the Financial Times [ft.com] often (ever?), though it's a great paper. It just doesn't turn out a lot of unique content that's of interest to most Slashdot readers.

      Newspapers aside, Slashdot has linked to CNN [cnn.com] and the BBC [bbc.co.uk] in the past, though not the CBC [www.cbc.ca] . ABC, CBS and NBC generally provide watered down news for people who don't like to read newspapers -- not Slashdot readers.

      Slashdot often links to MSNBC [msnbc.com] , but I expect that will begin to decline -- MSNBC.com's founding editor (Merrill Brown, a former Washington Post reporter) recently announced that he's resigning after 6 years to pursue other, undisclosed "opportunities." The New York Times noted on June 12 (you'll have to pay for the archived version of the story) that he offhandedly mentioned that MSNBC.com is about to be swallowed by MSN for economic reasons. (In other words, Microsoft put its foot down and said financial concerns outweigh editorial concerns.)

      The International Herald-Tribune [iht.com] writes some of its own content, but a lot of the paper is an amalgamation of New York Times and Washington Post stories.

      I haven't read the Seattle Post-Intelligencer [nwsource.com] or the Seattle Times [seattletimes.com] in a while, but you may find some good technology stories there.

      Bottom Line: Slashdot links to a disproportionate number of New York Times and Washington Post stories because both papers' sites post a lot of content and that content is top notch. It also helps that they're among the most recognizable names in journalism, but the Slashdot system is set up to allow editors to pick from the best stories that are submitted, regardless of the content provider's brand recognition. If you read a good story somewhere, submit it -- the quality of the story is more important than the misguided registration policies of the content provider. And if I've missed a good site people should be reading, reply to this message and let people know.

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:NY times by slashdot_commentator (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @09:12AM
      • The Economist by willis (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @03:23PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Depends too on the nature of the info gathered by gatesh8r (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @12:01AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Hottest commodity (Score:4, Interesting)

    by notext (461158) on Sunday June 30 2002, @12:04AM (#3794477)
    Personal information is worth so much these days.

    Open up your sunday paper and look at all the great bargins you can get. Cd's for $14.99 with a $5 instant rebate and a $10 mail in rebate. Do you really think they are giving you the cd's for the price of the tax only? No. They are gonna sell the information you send them to get your rebate. And that information will be 100% correct.
  • Passport...Ok (Score:3, Interesting)

    by i1984 (530580) on Sunday June 30 2002, @12:05AM (#3794481)
    The answer may lie in hooking up with Microsoft's Passport, or devising a user-protected keychain system on a hard drive or network that remembers all your passwords, or launching an online news industry initiative to simplify registration and subsequent site visits.

    Cool.

    I can have one of my dozen or so phony-info Passport accounts manage my dozen or so phony news site logins!

    Next Please...

  • by leek (579908) on Sunday June 30 2002, @12:06AM (#3794483)
    I think another reason they require registration, is to prevent robots from archiving their stories permanently, since they try to make money by selling access to stories more than a week or two old.

    Lots of robots don't even request /robots.txt, but proceed to download and index stories.

    Requiring registration is more than 10 times as effective in stopping robots, as /robots.txt is.

    Note that the NYTimes and other sites often allow backdoor entry with referers. For example, one of my favorite news portals is MyNewsFirst.com [mynewsfirst.com]. When you click on a NYTimes story listed there, you don't have to register, because it sends either a "passthrough referer", or an extra query string certificate (e.g. &partner=mynewsfirst), which bypasses the registration requirement.

    I'm just glad most RealCities [realcities.com] newspapers aren't doing it yet, since they provide geographically diverse news.

  • by rjnagle (122374) on Sunday June 30 2002, @12:22AM (#3794512) Homepage
    I have absolutely no problem with registration. Especially if the site is free. It's reasonable to give demographic information, geographic information and possibly what industry you are in, nothing more.

    As I wrote in my article, Web Communities and the Art of Making Money [imaginaryplanet.net] gathering basic demographic information is vital for obtaining the highest possible advertising rates. For low to medium traffic sites, having a good handle on your reader demographics makes the difference whether your ad rates are high or low. To me, there are very good reasons for demanding a demographic survey right at the very start. Sure, it pisses off a few technologically illiterate readers, but the prospect of free content should be enticement enough.

    The problem is that individuals want to keep their personal information private. Many will simply lie about personal information (and really, if a newpaper site is asking for your phone number, that is way too much).

    The other problem is the tedious nature of those marketing surveys that some of these registration forms require. Plan to buy a car in the next year? Do you spend over $1000 a year on computer stuff? Do you go on cruises? That sort of crap, besides being irrelevant and none of these site's business, are extremely tedious to fill out. And sometimes it's easy to overlook a radio box you were supposed to uncheck about whether you want to receive regular emails about great new offers.

    The next problem is protecting your email address. Only an idiot would give a real or a regularly used email address.

    The final problem is linkability. For less web-savvy people, they are unwilling to pursue a link on your weblog if it references a registration-required site. I know for example, some of my international friends would never register for the New York Times site even if the article is great.

    That's a problem, but if it gives these media sites a better margin for breaking even, so be it.

    Robert Nagle, Austin, Texas

  • an urge to slashdot (Score:4, Insightful)

    by GoatPigSheep (525460) on Sunday June 30 2002, @12:23AM (#3794513) Homepage Journal
    I think to encourage using sites that dont require registration, slashdot should begin rejecting any submissions that link to sites that do. Normally there is a mirror to a site that does not require registration anyway, and it would make reading slashdot stories alot easier. I personally do not visit any nytimes stories posted on slashdot, I ignore them as if they are not there.
  • access only for print subscribers by DanDan (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @12:25AM
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  • Well, it's obvious what the solution is. All we by complex (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @12:31AM
  • Why? by BurntHombre (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @12:48AM
    • Re:Why? by zCyl (Score:3) Sunday June 30 2002, @01:55AM
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Surf away... by blindbat (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @01:00AM
  • NYT charges for archives, too. by blair1q (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @01:18AM
  • It's the enforced ad views that steam me. by Le Marteau (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @01:19AM
  • N = R* • fp • ne • fl • fi • fc • by eddy the lip (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @02:03AM
  • wow by anthony_dipierro (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @02:24AM
  • didn't anyone click on the link? by bratgrrl (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @02:29AM
  • Why they do it. by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @02:45AM
  • Users aren't the only ones who misrepresent data by guttentag (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @04:01AM
  • what's the problem with registration by gargle (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @04:03AM
  • Obligatory NY Times Generator by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @04:25AM
  • What about web spiders? by tlambert (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @05:01AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Registration Required by Adrian Lopez (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @05:16AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Sorry, not interested by KlomDark (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @05:19AM
  • Dumb ideas by t_allardyce (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @05:19AM
  • Manual registration isn't the only way to do this by cushty (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @05:28AM
  • You're NOT the New York Times by Detritus (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @05:45AM
  • Give 'em your Congress-critter's name by tomatobasil (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @07:47AM
  • silly by Archfeld (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @08:00AM
  • Data accuracy by Control-Z (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @09:00AM
  • solving registration.... by The Creator (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @11:20AM
  • When signing up for online registration for a site you don't wish to give real data to, you might consider doing the following:

    1. For an e-mail address, use an abuse or technical contact for a spam domain which refuses to clean up its act (say, abuse@kornet.net), i.e. fight fire with fire. Be sure to check the box for e-mail updates!

    2. For income, always choose the lowest income level. If they demand demographic data as the price for visiting their site, skew that data to make them less attractive to advertisers as a result.

    3. Likewise, always choose the highest age bracket for the same reason.


    If everyone did this, they might soon realize that such annoying requirements were counterproductive.

    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • NY Times? by AntiNorm (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @11:41AM
    • Re:NY Times? by aaronsorkin (Score:1) Monday July 01 2002, @01:16AM
  • NYTimes vs LATimes registration by Reziac (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @11:50AM
  • Slashdot: Journalism at its Worst by howardjp (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @12:16PM
  • indymedia.org a viable alternative for non-tech ne by haaz (Score:2) Sunday June 30 2002, @01:30PM
  • as you said by onShore_Jake (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @01:31PM
  • Some Advice for the Columbus Dispatch by dmarx (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @03:44PM
  • Need to Differentiate Heavy Users from Casual by Bill Dimm (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @05:54PM
  • yes, i hate it. by intermodal (Score:1) Sunday June 30 2002, @11:16PM
  • Not the cause of spam by gidds (Score:1) Monday July 01 2002, @09:09AM
  • Registration and accounting is ok. by 6odm (Score:1) Monday July 01 2002, @03:07PM
  • 26 replies beneath your current threshold.