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CEO of Brilliant Defends Sneaky Installation Practices
Posted by
michael
on Thu Apr 04, 2002 02:43 PM
from the make-money-fast dept.
from the make-money-fast dept.
Em Emalb and other readers sent in follow-ups to our earlier story about yet more bundled crapware with Kazaa. Kazaa says they didn't do anything wrong; and so does Brilliant's CEO. I don't understand why anyone is still installing Kazaa, given their track record. Brilliant's brilliant plan is to use your computer to distribute their advertising, and give out Altnet resource dollars in exchange.
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CEO of Brilliant Defends Sneaky Installation Practices
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here's why (Score:5, Insightful)
Because 99.9% of Kazaa users don't know about slashdot, don't know about spyware, and don't even care when I tell them.
All they want is to add to their 100GB collection of mp3's.
Anyone living in the dorms right now can attest to this I'm sure. It also makes me realize where the RIAA is coming from, when kids literally skip classes to download more music and movies.
Re:here's why (Score:4, Interesting)
I told my brother, my girlfriend and my sister about the spyware and the distributed client, and you know what? They don't give two shits.
Kazaa is the best way to get what they're looking for, and they don't care about anything else. Period. I have a friend who, instead of downloading music is now downloading music videos with Kazaa.
Sure it strikes me as odd that nobody cares, but that's why they're still installing Kazaa.
Re:here's why (Score:5, Insightful)
And I'm not sure that we should try. The important thing is that we make sure it is a requirement that people are adequately informed by the companies that distribute such software. Just because I don't like to use software that contains spyware and other such junk, doesn't mean that my neighbor should feel the same way. As long as (s)he understands what is happening and chooses to accept the risks, that's ok. The hard part is in making sure that users understand.
This whole thing isn't really much different than smoking cigarettes. I don't smoke. I would rather that nobody smoke. But I can't (and won't) force others to feel the same way. Today, cigarette packages (at least in the USA) must be marked with warnings. Smokers are free to ignore those warnings. Willful installation of software that has other "side-effects" is just fine with me, as long as those performing the installation are adequately warned. And also, you don't have to worry about "sidestream" effects of what your neighbor does. Hmmm. Or maybe you do -- cable modem anyone?
Re:here's why (Score:4, Insightful)
Persuading the masses (Score:5, Insightful)
To a lot of people, music trading is a compulsion, much like some people "collect" porn or warez. (The comment about kids skipping class to download more is a fairly sad indication of this.) It's not so much about using the stuff, as it is about having the stuff; the bigger the collection the better, etc. Compare someone who's really into MP3 swapping with someone who's really into warez. Chances are, you'll find that they have a large collection, the majority of which they never use personally, and some of which they probably don't even like but have saved to enlarge the packrat's nest. You'll probably also find that they're outright frightened by the thought of losing any of it, even the stuff they don't use. It's a hoarding mentality, regardless of whether it's warez, porn, music, or whatever.
With that knowledge you can make a pretty convincing argument, even to the most computer-ignorant people, about the possible repercussions of disregarding EULAs and letting the installer do whatever it wants. Toss around the idea that the spyware du jour might be a program written by record companies to delete all MP3s on the hard drive. Suggest that hidden background apps might be making lists of MP3 files and sending them to a record company's lawyer. These things are technically possible - and if this Altnet turdlet has been lying dormant and undiscovered in Kazaa for a few months, who knows what else is waiting? Maybe some innocently named function call in an installer-dropped DLL isn't doing what its name would suggest.
Don't get too technical (most people get lost if you say "RIAA" instead of "record company," for instance) but be sure to plant the idea that recklessly installing software could wipe out their music collection, or their porn collection, or [insert whatever data is most valuable to them]. You'll get their attention pretty quickly.
Shaun
Wow! (Score:3, Funny)
heh.
That's "Mister Karma Ho'" (how to remove it) (Score:5, Informative)
Re:That's "Mister Karma Ho'" (how to remove it) (Score:5, Funny)
First, wander around the building until you feel the ground beneath your feet vibrate.
Then, reach over to your keyboard (a wireless is best, use a stick if necesarry, but don't move from that spot!) and do the following in exactly this order. You will need to have already downloaded any files mentioned below-
1) copy seven different
2) Go to your sounds control panel and change your error message to "Opening." Cause the error message to be played.
3) You now have five seconds to execute Windows\Candelabra\Light.bat, read Windows\Bookdead.txt and click "Accept."
4) A new button, marked with a double quote (") will appear on your explorer toolbar; this is a shortcut to \Windows\Yendor.exe. Open each and every folder on your hard drive, and click this button. While you're doing this, Brilliant Digital CEO Kevin Bermeister, whom you thought you killed when you got Bookdead.txt, will periodically teleport into your room, and try and seize your keyboard in order to hide the button, delete or rename \Windows\Yendor.exe. You're going to have to kill him several times during this process, so keep a firearm handy.
5) Restart your computer.
6) Dedicate your desk as an altar to Anhur (or some other god, but Anhur is easiest.) Take your desk to the astral plane. Pile your computer on your desk and make of it an offering unto him.
Congratulations, you have now uninstalled brilliant digital's software.
As an extra challenge, try uninstalling the software without depending on divine intervention or commiting genocide.
I'll tell you why people still use it... (Score:3, Insightful)
He just started classes and needed VB6 for the homework assignments. He went home logged on to kazaa, and withing 3-4 hours he had it downloaded and installed. Yes it is illegal, yes it probably shouldn't happen. But if he can save a couple hundred dollars while going to school, I know he'll do it.
Find him something else as good, without the annoyances, and I guarantee he will use it. Until then, he'll live with the pop-ups.
Interesting thought (Score:5, Interesting)
Why? (Score:3, Insightful)
As with all annoying advertisements the consumer has to balance the cost versus the benefit. Personally while I'd hate to have more ads, are they really using up that much more bandwidth than sharing my songs? Probably not. So long as there aren't pop-ups that my popup killer can't handle I don't really care. Besides which when I'm not looking for music I don't have Kazaa (or Morpheus or AudioGalaxy) running on my system.
Just get KazaaLite (Score:5, Informative)
Extra Features compared to original KaZaA
- No Adware
- No Spyware
- No banners
- No bitratelimit for mp3 files
- No irritating websites loaded into KaZaA
- No crappy BDE Viewer
- No f*cking Bonzi Buddy
- Set up multiple users with the included PseudoTrack tool
They obviously know they are being tricky. (Score:4, Insightful)
If a user decides to remove their install of Kazaa, then Kazaa should remove ALL traces of what it put on a users computer.
By hiding it, and making it virtually impossible for a casual user to remove, this should definately be classified as a trojan. Also, I have heard that Kazaa claims that this program is only active when the client is runnng/connected. If this is the case, then why wouldn't it automagically uninstall if you chose to remove Kazaa from your computer?
I'm just hoping that, for once, the RIAA strings these people up. Ask for permission to use my cycles, I will probably let you. Hide it in your 1,000,000 page EULA, go to hell. This is almost as bad as when WebHancer was bundled with AudioGalaxy.
-S
Get Kazaa Lite (Score:5, Informative)
Another good point of open source (Score:3, Funny)
Open source software keeps looking better and better all the time,
as commercial software just gets dirtier and sneakier...
I wonder where the EULA mania will stop?
TERMS AND CONDITIONS
blablabla..
3197 D) All your base belong to us for fifteen minutes..
Why I use Kazaa. (Score:3, Informative)
As for the spyware, do a quick search on usenet or using Google and you'll find how to disable it. I've had all of Kazaa's Spyware components disabled for a few months now.
How they get away with it.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Im of the fortunate people who knows how declaw kazaa and all its crap that comes with it.
Altnet announce on Brilliant Digital (Score:3, Informative)
These links were posted today in Kazaa.com, but shortly after they were deleted. They were in a page where you could read:
"We are proud to announce our partnership with Altnet. As our relationship evolves you will see an evolution in p2p software, taking KaZaA to a completely new dimension without sacrificing any of the things you enjoy in the software."
Yada, Yada
"With Altnet, consumers will be able to opt in to making certain parts of their computing power available to businesses. This may include disk space, processing power or bandwidth. You will know exactly how a business would like to use your resources at the time of use. You choose what jobs can use your machine and which ones cannot. You earn redeemable points for sharing your resource."
Kazaa.com was so "proud" of this partnership that the page was removed from their server in the same day!
Re:Cycleware? (Score:4, Interesting)
1. Imagine the overhead of 30 or 40 of those programmes fighting over your CPU.
2. When have I made my penance?
3. Why does the guy with the 486/50 get the package essentially free, but my Thunderbird 1200 gives them loads of useful work in exchange?
I'd be more comfortable with a system where you "buy" the product with a specific piece of work, perhaps built into the installer. I'd like to see something like this:
"To cover the cost of this programme, we want to use your computer to help solve: 'New Preservative Design for Twinkies, Inc.'. Your contribution will require 1.7M of download, a 500k upload of the results, and approximately 25 hours of CPU time on a Pentium III/500. When your contribution is complete, the distributed-computing component will be automatically and completely removed from the system. [OK][Cancel][Huh?]"
Why people use it?!?!? (Score:4, Interesting)
You get free sharing across a network, at the price of some advertising.
Lemmie put it into terms slashdotters will understand, at the cost of my karma (cause michael will slap this down in a matter of seconds):
I logged into slashdot today to find that there are LARGE ads in the middle of their articles! I don't understand why people use this site, after their trackrecord of ignoring their users [slashdot.org], abusing their power [slashdot.org], and insulting the users [slashdot.org]!
Is that example a troll? A flamebait?
Then so is the article explanation by michael!
How to remove - quick version (Score:4, Informative)
You may get a message that the uninstall has been successful.
Search your computer for a "BDE" folder, which most likely will be found in the "WinNT" or "Windows" directory. In this folder will be a file called "bdeclean.exe". Run this to finish the first part of the process.
Delete the BDE folder.
Caution: An unrelated piece of software called Borland Database Engine also creates a BDE directory. If you think you may have this software installed, or if there is any confusion whatsoever, do not delete this directory.
2.In the "Temp" directory (this will normally be found inside the "Windows" or "WinNT" directory) is a folder called "Brilliant." This contains many files. Delete the entire folder.
3.After performing steps 1 and 2, you will need to locate and remove some additional Brilliant Digital files that have been placed in critical system-level computer directories. CAUTION: Deleting the wrong files could interfere with the normal functioning of your computer. These files will most likely be in the "Windows\System" or "WinNT\System32" folder(in windows XP I found them in Windows\System32\):
bdedownloader.dll
bdedata2.dll
bdefdi.dll
bdeinsta2.dll
bdeinstall.exe
bdesecureinstall.cab
bdesecureinstall.exe
bdeverify.exe
bdeverify.dll
Delete these files.
Why I still use KaZaA (Score:4, Informative)
The ALTNET / b3d client does seem to install itself without asking you, but it sits quietly in the "installed programs" list, and can be uninstalled in 3 clicks (which I performed yesterday after reading Brilliant's plans for ALTNET).
Summary: I use KaZaA because it works, and only morons can't uninstall the spyware.
Re:Why I still use KaZaA (Score:4, Informative)
KaZaa asks you about a *few* of the many spyware apps they want to install on your computer. But MANY of them are installed regardless of what you choose. Try running Ad-Aware on your machine, or check out the uninstallation instructions for their newest thing (they one that this article is about).
Irony! (Score:3, Interesting)
Tangent:
It's weird, but as I've become a more experienced computer and software user, I've learned that less software is better for me and for my system. This is just one more example of that, as I see it. But unfortunately most computer users (by which, I suppose I mean Windows users) end up downloading dozens of programs they don't want or need. When I check out a family member's or friend's Windows computer they always have these huge Programs menus with entries they don't even recognize anymore. I suspect a lot of people will be surprised if this method of software delivery is copycatted (and I see no reason why it won't catch on very quickly) and months after they've downloaded, installed, and forgotten that VisualBasic gadget du jour that they got from C|Net's download center wakes up the trojan that came along for the ride and starts offering to sell them printer ink or viagra or green cards.
Oooooh... Altnet dollars! (Score:3, Funny)
Excellent! I can't wait to get ahold of some of those Altnet dollars. I wonder what the exchange rate is on Altnet to TreeLoot dollars? I've punched the monkey too many times to want to change to a different currency.
try limewire (Score:3, Informative)
Mark my words (Score:3, Funny)
;-P
Jokes aside, you are looking at the future of P2P my friends.
People are entirely willing to make the trade of bandwidth and processing power for services, if they don't have to suffer for it themselves, no matter how slimy the service. If the clock cycles and packet load is small enough, who can blame them?
You want mp3s? Serve ads for me. What the heck is wrong with that, really, from the users point of view?
Slimy? Yes.
Sneaky? Yes.
Underhanded and contributing to the corporatization and monotonization and overall disagreeable nature of the Internet? Undoubtedly.
But: A smart business move? Absolutely.
A win-win for vendor and end-user of a piece of P2P software? Completely.
Do you want me to suggest something UTTERLY EVIL? Howabout an end-user agreeing saying every night at midnight, 100 pieces of Spam will be sent out via their email client. If they write the software that anoymizes the Spam, i see hordes of people agreeing to this! And how far away is this really? And how hard would Spam be to fight then? Kazaa already has a prominent menu item which sends "use Kazaa" Spam to anyone the user wants to, all preformatted and ready to go.
Mark my words: this little "Brilliant" scheme is no blatant out-of-the way one-time dastardly move. It is the future.
Bandwidth Sharing?! (Score:3, Interesting)
You don't own the bandwidth, your provider does. If Brilliant is using that bandwidth, and is not providing the user with anything and is detrimental to the service of other people using that service provider, what you have is misappropriated bandwidth. With any luck AT&T will show up at Brilliant's office asking them to pay for it.
What Brilliant is doing is trying to make money by carving it out of the margins of the providers who would normally charge advertisers for hosting. The same amount of load is on the network, but the people carrying the load will get less income for it (and none of those companies have fat margins anymore).
Finally someone concedes the real motivations here (Score:3, Insightful)
Why on Earth should content owners -- notice how they're not even "content providers" anymore -- have any "control over the end-user experience"? Why on Earth would I be interested in using a network that gave them such?
Funny, when I buy a book, I can read it. Or read it aloud. Or throw it in the garbage. Or donate it to a library. Or lend it to a friend. Or tear it up and make origami out of it. (OK, not that last -- it'd be cool if I knew how to make origami). Last I checked, neither the author, the publisher, or the distributor can say diddly about my final use, except in the narrow sense that I cannot illegitimately copy it. Why should digital content be given any special treatment?
At least and at last, copyright holders are showing their true colors, with watermarks and generation controls and "authorization devices". It's not about stopping infringement. It's not about selling more stuff. It's about control -- about securing total control to allow eventual maximization of access and profit. And to hell with the end user if they don't like it.
Ah, Cosmo (of Sneakers [imdb.com] , you said it best: