There's nothing intrinsically dishonorable about fucking.

Ummm - doesnt that require TIME? (to be athletic) Or is there a program that I can run in the background to meet that courtship requirement?

Not True - Not True at all.

There is 1 single aspect that is at the deepest center of the female mind - an instinct which has been honed to precise perfection. (either by millions of years of evolutionary development, or by the direct genetic manipulation of superior beings - dependant on you POV).

It is not :

• Big Biceps
• Big Wallet
• Sweetness & Kindness
• Size of one's dick
• Honesty
• Intelligence
• Pheremone output
• Ability to have a conversation

The one thing that drives a woman to select a mate is - Power. Girls reading this will reluctantly agree that this is true, if they are honest about it.

How many women continue to run back into the arms of a total pig of man, who cheats on her, forgets her birthday, insults her mother, etc ? Looking on as men, we cannot understand this, but in a woman's eyes, such men have around them an aura of power that makes the woman always come back 'but I love him' she cries.

What is power and why do women melt at it ? Money is not power, nor are big biceps. Power is about control. You can have a totally rich geek who works out at the Gym 4 nights a week, but whos life is controlled by those around him. He is a yes man, he slinks around with shoulders hunched, and averts his eyes from his 'superiors'. Men cant pick this up, but women see this as weakness - not fit to bear children and provide security for a family. Women outwardly may show more feeling and compassion, but in the deepest heart of a women there is no place for weakness in her partner.

In contrast, you can have someone like al-bundy, useless, flat broke, no feminine side at all - But hey, there is an aura of certainty and security around him. You know that he will always be there for Peggy & the kids, and thats what really counts.

If you want a woman to want you in a more than superficial LJBF way, then dont treat her like your sister, dont treat her like your mother - and dont act like her personal assistant. Act like a bull male lion - approaching a lioness.

• You dont bow down to anyone
• You dont take orders from anyone
• You dont automatically agree with everything anyone else says
• People respect you
• People listen to you
• You know where you are going and what you are doing
• You only choose the best of anything - and you only want her because she is above everyone else
• By all means make her feel like a Queen, but you had better fill the shoes of a King that she looks up to

Finally, dont fall into the trap of giving her what you want her to give to you ... you are both different, and want different things. Love and Cherish her, and She will return Love and Respect .. subtle but important difference there.

You can't say anything about what "women" want, only about what a particular woman wants.

A woman with the integrity to rail on another woman for being racist and trying to justify it with the gender card. That just made my day!

Funny that while you appreciate her attitude, you insult her at the same time by implying that most women WOULD be willing to "justify racism with the gender card."

I won't even get into the "political correctness" comment. It's already too obvious that you're fighting straw men.

Must be the west-coast environment that's inhibiting...

PAM_ALEXANDER == "A high powered and attractive female leader of a major PR house Alexander Ogilvy that has focused on High Tech and was started I believe in the Bay Area"

SEE ALSO:

#2 in the Upside Top 100 Flacks

Fast Company's April 1998 issue features Alexander Communications

Besides isn't the problem that many geeks are arrogant assholes and no girls put up with them for long? Not a flame just a question.

Instead, I think the problem is that geeks, especially computer geeks (a group to which I belong), tend to get VERY drawn up in their work, and sort of shut out the rest of the world.

To illustrate that point, we should note that geeks don't "get" enough of in their day-to-day lives often...it's not just sex....it's also: nutrition, sleep, and nearly everything else that gets in the way of accomplishing goals. Driven people make sacrifices and many geeks make sex one of their sacrifices. Add to that the culture shock of Geeks-on-Visas and you have a real fouled up situation.

just my $0.02.


Man + Beer = More Man.

Combine that with the fact that the "mating" in the overall sense is messy, confusing, and often expensive, and you end up with a lot of celibate geeks.

I do not use Linux. Ever.

Strong data typing is for those with weak minds.
Join the revolution! Online Nation

As for Borsooks effort to mingle cutsie-cutsie code speak for getting laid with an article on geeks getting laid, well, all I have to say is, Borsock, given the apparent difficulty with which you fail to grasp elementary concepts of good coding, you would do better to just go get yourself laid.

As for the Andover-Madison avenue moderators who posted this dumb-as-hell "geek" piece, instead of some of the really cool and optimistic stuff going on at our national labs, shame shame shame on you.

Given this preference, and its persistence, it is becoming apparent that the Andover philosophy toward slashdot and geeks includes a notion that geeks are subhuman under-sexed animals can only discover their humanity and elevate themselves to real civilian levels by "getting laid."

... AKA "Let's Just Be Friends.

Check out those websites:

• http://www.pickupguide.com/ -- non commercial
• http://www.fastseduction.com/ -- non commercial
• http://www.ut.ee/~anton/layguide/ -- non commercial
• http://www.seduction.com/ -- commercial

... and don't hear the abhorred "LJBF" line ever again!!!

-- Nathan SZILARD

http://www.jackinworld.com

You aren't good enough to have a physical relationship with me. I like you but I don't respect you or else you don't turn me on.

There are plenty of situations where this can happen, it doesn't mean that the person saying it is evil (though I think it is a very insensitive thing to say). It usually means the other person is waiting around for an ideal person, whatever he/she may be, and you just don't measure up. I think its particularly insulting and that it changes the woman saying it from "potential wife material" to "woman repellant" (i.e. when women see you hanging out with your woman friend, they'll figure you are together.) So, the best thing to do when you hear this line, if you are interested in having a physical relationship some day, is to drop the person who says it like a hot brick. (Just like women need to drop men who are only interested in using them for sex but don't really care about them.) It is, of course, a really tough thing to do when you are lonely and socially awkward.

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Amem to that! I second that sentiment whole-heartedly. As someone who's been on the receiving end of that line to many times, I have to say this is the only way to handle it. It's way too easy to go along with it, thinking "well friendship is valueable and better than nothing." But deeper down, you're really thinking "if I just show her how much I really care by being a devoted friend, she'll come around." Well it's never going to happen and you'll just end up bitter and frustrated, while trapped in a situation where you think you have to continue to smile and be friendly when you really are having your heart jerked around painfully.

Don't do it! Walk away, as rudely as possible! And don't look back! Accepting freindship offers just reinforces the idea in thier mind that they're offering you something friendly, when in fact what they are proposing is that you sumbit yourself to emotional torture while pretending you like it. Telling them off or rudely ignoring them may seem harsh, but maybe they'll finally get the message that what they are doing to guys is cruel.

I actually find that many geeks are very understanding and considerate. Therefore many girls end wanting them as friends, not as lovers. This is a real problem, which I think geeks should think about.

Do you mean (we) geeks should become obnoxious inconsiderate, chauvinist... *whatever* ?
Well, even though I'd agree (in theory) with your analysis, I might also try to understan why on EARTH women (pick your own sex/gender here) do/would prefer to have very understanding and considerate people as friends rather than lover/mate/partner. Or why they would not _want_ them as partners...

me/myself/I (haven't got an identity yet - part of geekdom I guess)

I actually find that many geeks are very understanding and considerate. Therefore many girls end wanting them as friends, not as lovers. This is a real problem, which I think geeks should think about.

...only if you want a lover and a friend isn't "enough" for you :)

Relationships can come and go for the oddest of reasons. Friendships require far less maintenance and can also last a lifetime.

As one of the geeks that can't be bothered with the messiness and "analog"ness of sexual relationships (anyone remember that section of Hackers, by Steven Levy, that describes why the TMRCers never bothered with relationships?), I find a "just friends" arrangement ideal for me.

I'm presently rooming with one of my "just friends". We each have our own spaces; she to read and do research for her career, I to geek out and hack on hardware and software. We both work long hours, seeing each other sporadically during the week. Frankly, we're both too involved and interested in our careers to make time for a relationship (with each other or anyone else) and have sufficiently-differing longterm goals that a relationship between us would be silly anyway. If we want to have a bottle of wine and a good steak, however, we'll make some time and go out on the town to enjoy some the finer things in life, and neither of us has to worry about what happens after.

If you ask a woman out (whom you already know as a friend, we're not talking about strangers in a bar here) and she gives you the LJBF line - Let's Just Be Friends - it ain't the end of the world. She just might be sincere about it.

One more benefit of having a "just friend" - when you do get into a relationship with someone, you'll always have someone you can go to when you need a straight answer on something:

"Hey, Just-Friend, does she really care when I leave the toilet seat up, or is she just being weird and trying to pick a fight?"

"Yes, she really does care! If you want to get laid again, put the seat down! Y'know how the toilet doesn't seem to get as filthy as it used to when you were a bachelor? That's not an accident! If you want to get laid right, try cleaning the toilet even if you don't think it needs cleaning!"

(Any similarity between that post and any conversations I've had is purely a coincidence. Honest. Guys, don't bother cleaning the toilet. Really. The Men Of Silicon Valley don't want your women, and none of them paid me $500 too add this paragraph.)

You don't have to get bitter about it, though. Keep being nice -- but don't spend time with people who aren't into the sex and intimacy that you want. Be a good guy, but be unavailable to that kind of woman.

It's not just geek guys who 'give up' and stop actively looking for a lasting relationship.

I've spoken (online and in real life) with any number of (non-geek) women who've come to the same conclusion as so many geeks have- it's just not worth the effort.

Anybody who gets shot down often enough, unless they are a masochist, they are going to stop putting themselves in a position where they can be shot down.

Voice of experience.

I do not use Linux. Ever.

Upgrade GirlFriend 1.0 to Wife 1.0

Last year a friend of mine upgraded from GirlFriend 1.0 to Wife 1.0 and found that it's a memory hog leaving very little system resources available for other applications.

He is only now noticing that Wife 1.0 is also spawning Child Processes which are further consuming valuable resources. No mention of this particular phenomenon was included in the product brochure or the documentation, though other users have informed him that this is to be expected due to the nature of the application. Not only that, Wife 1.0 installs itself such that it is always launched at system initialization, where it can monitor all other system activity. He's finding that some applications such as PokerNight 10.3, BeerBash 2.5, and PubNight 7.0 are no longer able to run in the system at all, crashing the system when selected (even though they always worked fine before). During installation, Wife 1.0 provides no option as to the installation of undesired Plug-ins such as MotherInLaw 55.8 and SisterInLaw Beta release. Also, system performance seems to diminish with each passing day.

Some features he'd like to see in the upcoming Wife 2.0:

• A "Don't remind me again" button
• Minimize button
• An install shield feature that allows Wife 2.0 to be installed with the option to uninstall at any time without the loss of cache and other system resources.
• An option to run the network driver in promiscuous mode which would allow the system's hardware probe feature to be much more useful.

I myself decided to avoid the headaches associated with Wife 1.0 by sticking with Girlfriend 2.0. Even here, however, I found many problems. Apparently you cannot install Girlfriend 2.0 on top of Girlfriend 1.0. You must uninstall Girlfriend 1.0 first. Other users say this is a long standing bug that I should have known about. Apparently the versions of Girlfriend have conflicts over shared use of the I/O port. You would think they would have fixed such a stupid bug by now. To make matters worse, the uninstall program for Girlfriend 1.0 doesn't work very well leaving undesirable traces of the application in the system.

Another thing -- all versions of Girlfriend continually popup little annoying messages about the advantages of upgrading to Wife 1.0

*** BUG WARNING ****

Wife 1.0 has an undocumented bug. If you try to install Mistress 1.1 before uninstalling Wife 1.0, Wife 1.0 will delete MSMoney files before doing the uninstall itself. Then Mistress 1.1 will refuse to install; claiming insufficient resources.

-- This space is left intentionally blank --

To bad i don't have the source code to hack it...

Source code available at the Human Genome Projects Genome database

If a trainstation is the place where trains stop, what is a workstation?

Documentation! Where did he get documentation for Girlfriend or Wife? My packages came with no documentation, yet the sw expects me to know *everything*! ARGH!

~svoboda
Practice kind randomness and beautiful acts of nonsense.

1) It's not that funny.

2) It's not new - I've see it in newsgroups, on web pages, and in my e-mail inbox for years.

It strikes me all the pseudocode is there just to cover up the lack of real material in the article. Yes, some high-tech workers don't have sex high on the priority list. It happens in Silicon Valley and I've seen it happen in Michigan (not a jab at the Geek Compound; I have friends in Michigan parts of this article describe). So some geeks like alternate sexual methodologies. So? I think that the article would have fit in one page without all the bad (and sometimes buggy) pseudocode.

In fact, I'd have to argue that various bits of alternative sexuality don't have precise protocols. Not being into all the alternatives I cannot comment on them, but I don't think there's a big book of algorithms for going about alternative sexual practices. It's just that high-tech workers know what they want. They're not about to go and not communicate their needs because they think that doing so would be filthy. We know what we want, not that we have a precise checklist.

It strikes me all the pseudocode is there just to cover up the lack of real material in the article. Yes, some high-tech workers don't have sex high on the priority list. It happens in Silicon Valley and I've seen it happen in Michigan (not a jab at the Geek Compound; I have friends in Michigan parts of this article describe). So some geeks like alternate sexual methodologies. So? I think that the article would have fit in one page without all the bad (and sometimes buggy) pseudocode.

I completely agree. It feels like one of those memos from some wannabe tech manager. Tries way to hard to use code and buzzwords. It's annoying.

In fact, I'd have to argue that various bits of alternative sexuality don't have precise protocols. Not being into all the alternatives I cannot comment on them, but I don't think there's a big book of algorithms for going about alternative sexual practices.

People don't have precise protocols. Those from a similar culture have an easier time getting on because they know what to expect from each other. But you still have problems even when the culture is the same because people can be so individual. This accounts for foreigners having a harder time dating in another culture. They're too different and so both the foreign dater and the potential datee may be reluctant to get involved. After all, isn't dating hard enough without having to overcome cultural and language barriers?

It's just that high-tech workers know what they want. They're not about to go and not communicate their needs because they think that doing so would be filthy. We know what we want, not that we have a precise checklist.

I don't think that those in the tech industry know what they want any better than the average person. That is, they've got an idea, but the details aren't really worked out. They do tend to be less prone to letting other people influence what they want, which can be an asset.

I think the difference is that geeks tend to be shy and/or introverted. They also tend to live in their heads quite a bit, or at the very least, prefer the company of someone with two brain cells to rub together. These traits limit the field of potential candidates by quite a bit.

-Jennifer

I think the difference is that geeks tend to be shy and/or introverted. They also tend to live in their heads quite a bit, or at the very least, prefer the company of someone with two brain cells to rub together. These traits limit the field of potential candidates by quite a bit.

Begin Rant:

well, i managed to read most of the article, though my mind went drifting on the last page, no offense ppl but i could care less about Silicon Valleys BDSM fetishes and such.

As everyone else has stated the psuedo-code is really fxckin annonying (though i did think the first portion was kinda funny) then its redundent.

This in closing is primarily for Salon, and a little bit for /. WHY? How many people are truly all that interested in the sex lives of Silicon Valley, and the rest of the technoholics personal lives? ...Did we all like suddenly become symbols of American culture? ...Is Linus, Gates, or Jobs (etc.) staring in an intence romance movie or become sex-symbols?

END RANT

PS. Sorry bout that....

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No. But I'm starting to lose interest - ever since the April fiasco and now the NYCOT stuff started happening, it's been going downhill.

Indeedy. Who needs it? Nobody. But everybody want's it!!

:)

I think that if geeks expect that they will be able to find romance at work, there's nothing like an engineering company for that not to come true. Yeah, I guess it'd be nerdvana to have someone that actually understands what you do, but from my experience, that's probably not going to happen due to the abysmal M/F ratio.

The problem then becomes where does the average geek find someone. Many, if not most, are too shy/introverted/socially awkward to go to social situations for the purpose of meeting people. And it is important that a programmer's mate understands and is able to live with the life that goes with being a programmer. This is not a quality that I see in the general public.

But even more important, IMHO, is that you don't want to find romance at work. ...

This is true, regardless of profession. Sometimes it's worth the risk, but it would have to be pretty convincing for me (not that I'm looking; I'm married). But, that doesn't mean that you can't look within the industry or on the net.

-Jennifer

Recently I've noticed an increase in the number of articles about sex related issues. Are you trying to increase the readership by upping your chances of appearing in search engines?

----------------

A huge tropical fish...live...http://www.oscarfish.com/livecam/

Ahh, so it's true! You just screw girls you meet on IRC then!

:)

Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.

You all miss the point. Human behavior related to dating and sex always in large part determined by protocols. It can't avoid that -- instincts and culture always create some kind of protocol that determines the basics -- how complete strangers are supposed to start a conversation, how reaction can be judged, etc. Personality of every person determines, what actually is done, yet the basics are just as pre-determined as normal spoken language. There is nothing insulting to our human nature in it, strict rules of English language didn't make Shakespeare a worse writer than if he invented a language for himself, they provided means of expression. And just like people now have trouble understanding some thing in Shakespeare because he used slightly different language from modern English, cultural rules, involved in dating may be completely unknown or misunderstood by a person who comes from different culrural background -- especially from different country.

When people spend their whole life in the same or similar cultural environment they spend their childhood absorbing ("learning" won't be the right word) things that aren't completely based on instinct yet never are expressed in plain words. When any serious change of environment happens people always face the fact that environment changed and their rules don't work. People, unless they are very perceptive or interested in psychology, can't understand, what rules don't work -- they never "knew" rules that they apply in the first place. They get wrong ideas about what people are trying to express. My own main complaint for a long time was a tone, Americans use in their speech, smiles at completely inappropriate times, etc -- it looked like Americans allow themselves to be or look blatantly insincere with their friends and co-workers at the extent that I would consider to be a deep personal insult -- like if in the restaurant a waiter would bring me some dish that costs about $100 and supplied me with plastic fork and knife (no offence to people who didn't mean to insule me -- this is how they looked in the content of my, completely foreign for them, Russian culture).

Most of emotions, values and even behavior norms are universal (more universal than my spelling of "behavior" for sure). No self-respecting male geek (I am talking about men here) would tell a girl that he loves her, and be disinterested in her feelings, or would not try to make her feel comfortable. But the form, in which he would do that, or, even worse, form, in which he would try to start a conversation or judge first reaction to him, would unlikely match local cultural norms. Neither he nor girl would really understand it -- both are acting on things that never were written, expressed or explained to them, but both would feel discomfort in such a situation. In modern culture such discomfort is often expressed as that "chemistry" wasn't compatible (or, in subcultures that are not so fond for pseudoscientific explanations, "I have got a feeling that it isn't for me"), but this is wrong -- no "chemistry" unless it's some really noticeable stench of sweat, can be incompatible with everybody around, and no serious negative "feeling" can be derived from one minute of conversation with a stranger that behaves reasonably courteous. What we see here is plain and simple incompatibility of language, not some unreasonable expectations that human will behave like computer.

The really bad part of it is that no one seriously studied cultural norms of that kind -- people much more embarrassed to dig into "in what situation and how exactly it's appropriate to say 'how are you?' and demonstrate that the answer will be ignored" or "how is it appropriate to reject a guy, romantically interested in you while pretending to care about his feelings, so you wouldn't feel bad about yourself" than in any kind of sexually-freudian crap that ever was written in psychology books or was exchanged between psychoanalyst and patients. This mean, geeks, most of whom represent rather closed subculture, and especially foreign geeks, who represent completely different, sometimes hostile in their base cultures, have no means to learn them unless they will find a way to re-live at least teenage years immersed in this culture (as members, not as outsiders, like even local geeks are at their teenage years).

I understand that the approach that I have used here is clearly and blatantly geeky and definitely not compatible with an attitude, normal in this society. Still it doesn't make me wrong, and history knows a lot of cases when only this kind of approach succeeded in discovering (or expressing, or just in raising awareness) of problems that plagued the societies for decades. I don't know of any solution -- if I knew I would definitely used it for myself -- but I believe, people should realize that this problem exists, and try to solve it, not accuse geeks in "not being sensitive enough", suppress all thoughts of it, pretending that things are supposed to be that way.

It's amusing to note how thoroughly sincere you sound in your rejection of sincerity.

Being continually sarcastic and ironic gets boring just as quickly as continual sincerity does. The trick is to figure out when it's appropriate to be sincere and polite, and when it's okay to be a sarcastic SOB. Anything else is just intellectual laziness.

Is it just me, or is it getting warm in here?

While I don't consider intelligence worthless, I'd say a far more important trait (and one that is often confused with intelligence) is 'thoughtfulness' - namely, the habit of stopping and thinking carefully before opening one's mouth. I've known people who were "intelligent" in the sense that they would score high on IQ tests and the like, but whose conversations consisted of a series of kneejerk responses - I hated being around them. And I've known people who would do poorly on tests, but made the most of whatever raw intelligence they had - and found them quite a bit more interesting.

• Man sees woman
• Man wants woman
• Man takes woman

They talk about how nobody's getting any, then they talk about how everyone was into S&M, and then they started talking about how noone is getting any again. WTF?

In more simplified form it's something like "In this subculture the best way to get sex is to look for a kind of sex that 1. is rare (so people involved/interested in it will value them more), 2. breaks some norms in local society (so people, involved/interested in it would be tolerant to geeks, breaking other norms of the same society)".

Raven- I was once your cow-orker, one of the 'guys' who treated you like just another of the guys.

Fact is, I treat all female geek friends as if they are one of the guys- not because I'm not interested (often I'm very interested), but because I hear over and over again how geek girls are annoyed by guys (keek or otherwise) hitting on you and treating 'geek girls' like girls rather than fellow geeks.

Hear that often enough and a guy starts to think 'If I show I'm attracted, she'll figure I'm just another jerk guy, so I'll remain silent and platonic (and frustrated).'.

I for one am not looking for 'cute girls with tight sweaters, perfect makeup and a styled do'. I am looking for somebody with brains, conversation skills, and who isn't taller or rounder than I am.

The geek girls I know all prefer to complain about how they keep getting hit on and how all the guys want 'the swedish bikini team', ignoring their available fellow geeks.

If you're serious about finding geek love, User Friendly's Peer 2 Peer free personals site is a good start.

I do not use Linux. Ever.

A good idea they had, perhaps, but not necessarily a good start. I select "I'm a man looking for women", ages 20-30, USA. 55 hits. Three from this month, two from December. Anything older than that, and the person probably has forgotten the ad is there.

I do not relate to this article at all. I have a very healthy sex life but lack a stable relationship. I would prefer to have a good relationship but mindless sex helps me mind less. I find geek women are less likely to want to commit and prefer casual sex. I used to be married and I think I have more sex now, than when I was married (In fact I am sure I do).

You almost answered your own question. Just like geek girls are less interested in casual sex, a lot of geek guys aren't interested in it either. Foreign geek guys even more often so because in a lot of cultures either casual sex is frowned upon in general, or at least is considered acceptable with worthy partner (whatever "worthy" is, it rarely overlaps with a kind of american woman that likes to sleep around). So at least some geeks consider casual sex to be a "masturbation with female body" and are looking for something more meaningful.

Geeks are ugly. Or, more to the point, people who sit around all day doing softare or electrical design, aren't usually the sort who live in their bodies. They tend to live in their heads, and sod all with that bag of flesh down below.

Counter-example -- me.

Ha, only sport I ever got into at university was target shooting. To put this in context, I live in the UK, with its sensible policy of gun control. Strangely, about 60 to 70 percent of the shooting club was made up of computer science students.

On topic though, I didn't sleep with a woman until a few years after I left university. But then again, I was too into men to realise I was bisexual all along. It's still easier to find men to sleep with too.

- Life is what you make of it.
A)bort, R)etry, I)nfluence with "FORMAT C:".

So, am I the only one with this problem or are there others like me?

Others have the same problem but much worse. I have been programming for 14 years, 6 of them in this country, with stable result of zero attention from women in all situations that I happened to go through.

How does she go about finding a nice, geeky guy who is not scared away by an instant family?

Good luck to her, but I should warn you and her -- geeks, no matter how bad do they feel, value their self-respect, and can reject a single mother for a simple reason that choosing a woman that has kids should be made by them consciously, not out of desperation. If they feel that they have no choice but look among women, stigmatized by society for something, they don't really relate to (geeks wouldn't have problem with a woman, stigmatized for her geekiness, manner of thinking, etc -- but social position with no "merit" is different), they can reject such a forced choice unless they will see something seriously valuable, _superior_ to others in that woman.

On the other side, hey geek guys, be sure to go for the brainless ones who look like models, because (1) while women are on average as smart as the average man, the bell curve of distribution of intelligence is narrower for women - fewer morons, fewer geniuses, and (2) the factor which most closely correlates with long-term success in a relationship is correlation of IQ between the partners, so (3) there are not enough high IQ women for geek guys to have statistically likely-to-succeed relationships with and (4) if most of you will go for the pretty-but-stupid ones you'll give the rest a better chance for success.

Borsook is simply a nothing more than a baby boomer debutante hiding under the facade of an intellectual. She is utterly pissed over the fact that geeks bought her precious San Francisco out from under the feet of the San Fran baby-boomer "flake culture", and she intends to spend the rest of her life writing her way out of it.

Deal with it shugah, WE'RE HERE.

This Salon article is about money, lots of money, heaps and piles and stacks and windrows of cash, money like most people (that includes even really talented geeks) will never ever see in their lives. Just like all "tech" articles in Salon. Money to desire, money to envy, money all anyone really needs to know about "Silicon Valley," that wondrous West coast city-sized blackbox which extrudes so miraculously much money! Money, money, money, one and all kneel and worship almighty money.

bleh, WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net

The best way that this story could have been handled would be to look at the 'new' business and social environment and interaction in Silicon Valley. I know nothing about it, as I work as I work in Ireland -- mix business with pleasure, anyone?

This story seems to have been written by someone outside of the culture who wanted to appear like they were inside the culture. And what better than a candid, behind closed-door look at a high profile, shy culture.

I'm curious as to just how people interact, meet each other and what not in an environment that seems insanely pressurised to me, from the congested traffic to the high rent and long hours.

I went to college in Newark, NJ (not far from NYC). There is a large population in the Northeastern US and an exceptionally high concentration in this particular area. I found that you can still be very much alone in the middle of all that humanity, but it's likely that you will run into someone along the line that is interesting enough that you'll want to talk to them. There are so many forums to provide an opportunity to find someone with similar interests.

When I'm really engrossed in a project, I know that my social interaction comes with the project team and, occasionally, bystanders, for the most part. Does this occur in Silicon Valley, as well, where friendships and romances arise from convenience? If so, I'm sure the same ramifications exist for work romances, but what's the social view of, say, a millionaire CEO dating his secretary?

That engrossment is usually temporary. Otherwise, you'd crack. City life provides a huge variety of outlets for getting away. University life (especially if you live on-campus) provides the best of both worlds: housemate hackers. Many of my friends are from college. Nearly all of the rest are friends of friends. I presume that can carry over to work (maybe not the living together thing). Hard for me to say, since I no longer live in the NYC area and I haven't encountered a local hacker culture.

-Jennifer

I went to college in Newark, NJ (not far from NYC). There is a large population in the Northeastern US and an exceptionally high concentration in this particular area. I found that you can still be very much alone in the middle of all that humanity, but it's likely that you will run into someone along the line that is interesting enough that you'll want to talk to them. There are so many forums to provide an opportunity to find someone with similar interests.

Schools and work have very little in common. Social interaction at work is suppressed if for no other reason, by the amount of things, everyone is expected to do. Companies specialize in one activity per location, so people are heavily segregated by their activity -- and in the case of EE/CS, gender. There are no organizations or activities, specifically designed to bring people together. So if geeks have their chances at school, it definitely ends with graduation.

And just as sexuality reflects the larger society in which it is embedded, the libertarianism and union-loathing rife throughout the valley seem to have been reflected in the fact that sex workers in the valley aren't =organized=, as they are in San Francisco through COYOTE (Cast Out Your Old Tired Ethic), the long-standing sex workers' political organization, and the Cyprian Guild -- a support group/professional cadre for sex workers. So close, yet so far away.

Besides, are Libertarians really anti-union? It seems to me that Libertarianism is an assault on the power of government, which in the wrong hands has been used to destroy unions (look at the Air Traffic Controllers). Being pro-government is not the same thing as being pro-union. Libertarianism is strong support for getting the government off of our backs, and the real problem prostitutes are having, according to this article, is government control and interference. In my opinion, this undermines her whole arguement in the article. I would expect the Libertarian party to show strong support for any union who's constitutional rights of free speech or assembly were under assault by agents of the government.

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"Terribly libertarian culture"? I would say you are right, she seems to be anti-libertarian. I am a libertarian and you are correct when you say we represent getting the goverment off our backs. Its all about Liberty and freedom. I really hope the title of her book isn't trying to say that wanting your personal libertys is selfish.

I agree with the first thing you said, legalized prostitution is something that Libertarin's do support and doesn't support her stance at all.

She never said Libertarians were anti-union. She said "libertarianism and union-loathing rife" which could obviously are two seperate values. However, I'm not sure prostition and unions really go hand and hand. I mean, are sex workers in San Fransico really "organized" into unions. This lady sounds pretty whack to me.

COYOTE is a pretty strong political lobby for prostitutes, but I don't think it is actually what I'd call a union. (Tough to say actually, I don't know enough about it.) I think that's what she meant by union, and that the existence of COYOTE makes it harder to prosecute prostitutes in San Francisco.

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I came to the conclusion that this article is confused. :-)

The big difference is that most other subcultures, men join them because they want to get laid. because of the way that people percieve users, I don't think I ve ever run into a teenager that's said 'I got into computers to attract women'

That can be a real pain. In my early 20's I used to ride horses. Do you want to know just how sick I got of the words, "That's a great way to meet chicks".

I think the article has the same predjudice that I've run into many, many times. That men are primarily interested in getting laid, and anything else they do is either a subtle way of getting laid, or something to fill in the time between roots. It seems to be nearly as pervasive (and as untrue in my experience) as the idea that all women really want to be blond and wear size 8 dresses, like in the fashion magazines.

Perhaps the idea that some of us want to achieve in areas other than social dominance games is completely alien to those who do play the social game.

At any rate, I've always considered Dani Bunten to be a giant in the gaming industry and I was sorry when she died. So, if you ever need a positive role-model to show people who "don't get it" you might point them to Dani Bunten (though, of course, her games are less well known today than they were in "the good old days," sadly. I keep wishing they'd bring back M.U.L.E. I loved that game.)

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Ditto, but I expected this going in. Salon is crap. They are the antithesis of /.

I've actually been wondering about this for awhile - how do geeks and gays go together. I'm what I call unsuccessfully gay, and sort of a geek, but I have problems calling myself a geek. In college they were always in a different crowd. I get into programming and stuff, and I enjoy reading /. but I don't relate on every level. I've always been kinda cool too, in a genuine way.

So are geeks gay? Is that why they 'don't do girls'? I used to think that was it, but I've noticed them slobbering over girl stuff, like jpegs of mammary glands, etc, so I have come to doubt it's that simple.

I think geekdom is a lot about just being oneself. Actually they are very male, more male than males that try to please females with everything they do and become. Geeks aren't 'p*ssy-whipped' (I believe that's the correct simile? Or is it a metaphor? :) You see I am a geek.)

But I think geeks do need to explore sexuality (of all forms), throwing away the rules used by the locals (primitives, natives, non-geeks, etc.) Locals do sex by turning off their consciousness, kind of squeezing their eyes shut and firing the gun, using their dating rituals for crude aim. Image fully conscious sexuality. That is something geeks are capable of. It is a mistake to think that a mature geek is just a Saloner. Ack.

It's all about love. What do geeks love? Are they to become the first to try to marry machines? Imagine the Christian Right... oh brother.

Nick
One at a time or all together, it makes no odds to me.

Strong data typing is for those with weak minds.
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If someone said 'Do you want to go out on a date' it would sound incredibly odd, but both parties would fully understand exactly what it meant -

Go out together to some place or other, usually with a larger group of people, most of whom 1 of you knows, see a few things, have a laugh or 2, get increasingly drunk as the night goes on, and then retire to someone's house to have sex for as long as possible, usually with the same person that you are 'on a date with'.

I suppose being 'On a date' with someone means that they get first preference when it comes time to have sex, since they were the first to express interest.

Does that definition hold true for Germany / UK as well ?

I think in France, 'Going on a date' simply means 'If I buy you dinner, will you let me go down on you later on ?' - Is this true ?

I've also watched the Asians (Taiwanese?) in nightclubs, who all get up to dance as a group, despite the fact that individually they are all incredibly shy.

Yeah, American culture is very isolating. But then, if somebody tries to change the rules, they get persecuted, much like the "pervs" this mislead author refers to in her article. Get a clue: I don't give a shit what you're doing in you personal life, as long as I don't have to watch it or hear about it! Who cares if somebody is practicing "polyamory", unlike the _strictly monogamous_ president of the USA! People should do what works for them, and be tolerant of others doing something different that works for them... maybe I should spend some more time in Europe.

Bullshit. Computers aren't out partners -- they are extensions of us, our tools, our means of expression, out arms, legs, eyes, ears and mouths. But in no case they are partners.

--Alex
This is a signature virus...

However, I found that the article made an interesting point, pointing out the differences between the bay area and San Francisco. It makes sense that the more outgoing people live in San Francisco by choice, while the more introvert people end up outside the city. I know people who commute in both directions, and put up with a one hour commute each way, because the lifestyle in the neighborhood of their working space doesn't suit them (and not because of cost issues). Now, this is a point to expand on - but the article didn't exploit this.

Last, I am German, and I have a couple of German friends around here. One is married to another German girl and living in Mountain View in the suburbs, another one is the ultimate batchelor, living in San Francisco and dating a Palestinian girl, and yet another German is hanging out with strippers and is in the SM scene. Now, the European culture might be closer to the US than the Asian culture (the one discussed in the article), but my point is, that attitute can overcome a lot of cultural problems. Sure, I also know people who are not that happy here, but many of them already returned home. That's fine. As far as this topic is concerned, some statistics would help a lot as well.

Bottom line: I don't know where Paulina Borsook took her opinions from, and she didn't attempt to be credible.

As a girlgeek, it frustrates me to see another article where women geeks get such a cursory mention.

If you are a geek (female or otherwise) can you please first describe the problem, then explain how bad it is instead of doing the second without the first? I don't think, any male geek on slashdot (editors included) has a slightest idea, what kind of sex/romance/dating-relared problems do female geeks have in SV.

I think the point has been made that long hours, high stress, and competitive focus severely limit one's ability to get into the dating pool. I don't think, however, that this is the whole story.

If someone is spending time learning how to code and how to design devices, their time is spent in an entirely foreign focus from non-engineers. Learning the dating 'dance' takes time and effort, and most engineers have already dedicated themselves. The computer engineering field is unique in that computers can truly be reward enough for work done, and can suck 100% of an engineer's focus.

It is very easy for a competitive environment to demand absolute attention, and it is very easy for engineers to dedicate their efforts to this environment.

I work in an engineering position at the world's #1 chipset maker, but early on I made the personal decree that no job was worth never learning, never absorbing, an understanding of how women work and what they want/need.

I can't make a sacrifice that great for anything, but it is not hard to see how some people would do it for engineering.

A very good solution, not 100%, but a good one, is to ensure that engineers always have to work in teams. If your focus is entirely on software or electrical design, you severely lack development of communication skills. In teams where communication is the #1 neccessity, this suffering focus is re-aligned to help engineers keep in touch with a more real, communicative world. Granted, it is not an excellent help, but at least an engineer will learn how to maneuver in social situations.

And frankly, the closing line made me laugh, since I'm generally the "female SysAdmin" talking about OS preferences with others at what few parties I get to anymore. And yes, it does seem to be a mating ritual in geek life.. of course, I like it that way. :)

Gwendolyn R. Schmidt

Traffickers' New Cargo:
Naive Slavic Women
By MICHAEL SPECTER

Ramle, Israel—Irina always assumed that her beauty would somehow rescue her from the poverty and hopelessness of village life. A few months ago, after answering a vague ad in a small Ukrainian newspaper, she slipped off a tour boat when it put in at Haifa, hoping to make a bundle dancing naked on the tops of tables.

She was 21, self-assured and glad to be out of Ukraine. Israel offered a new world, and for a week or two everything seemed possible. Then, one morning, she was driven to a brothel, where her boss burned her passport before her eyes.

"I own you," she recalled his saying. "You are my property, and you will work until you earn your way out. Don’t try to leave. You have no papers and you don’t speak Hebrew. You will be arrested and deported. Then we will get you and bring you back."

It happens every single day. Not just in Israel, which has deported nearly 1,500 Russian and Ukrainian women like Irina in the past three years. But throughout the world, where selling naive and desperate young women into sexual bondage has become one of the fastest-growing criminal enterprises in the robust global economy.

The international bazaar for women is hardly new, of course. Asians have been its basic commodity for decades. But economic hopelessness in the Slavic world has opened what experts call the most lucrative market of all to criminal gangs that have flourished since the fall of Communism: Eastern European women with little to sustain them but their dreams. Pimps, law- enforcement officials and relief groups all agree that Ukrainian and Russian women are now the most valuable in the trade.

Because their immigration is often illegal—and because some percentage of the women choose to work as prostitutes—statistics are difficult to assess. But the United Nations estimates that 4 million people throughout the world are trafficked each year—forced through lies and coercion to work against their will in many types of servitude. The International Organization for Migration has said that as many as 500,000 women are annually trafficked into Western Europe alone.

Many end up like Irina. Stunned and outraged by the sudden order to prostitute herself, she simply refused. She was beaten and raped before she succumbed. Finally she got a break. The brothel was raided, and she was brought here to Neve Tirtsa in Ramle, the only women’s prison in Israel. Now, like hundreds of Ukrainian and Russian women with no documents or obvious forgeries, she is waiting to be sent home.

"I don’t think the man who ruined my life will even be fined," she said softly, slow tears filling her enormous green eyes. "You can call me a fool for coming here. That’s my crime. I am stupid. A stupid girl from a little village. But can people really buy and sell women and get away with it? Sometimes I sit here and ask myself if that really happened to me, if it can really happen at all."

Then, waving her arm toward the muddy prison yard, where Russian is spoken more commonly than Hebrew, she whispered one last thought: "I’m not the only one, you know. They have ruined us all."

Traffic Patterns: Russia and Ukraine Supply the Flesh

Centered in Moscow and the Ukrainian capital, Kiev, the networks trafficking women run east to Japan and Thailand, where thousands of young Slavic women now work against their will as prostitutes, and west to the Adriatic Coast and beyond. The routes are controlled by Russian crime gangs based in Moscow. Even when they do not specifically move the women overseas, they provide security, logistical support, liaison with brothel owners in many countries and, usually, false documents.

Women often start their hellish journey by choice. Seeking a better life, they are lured by local advertisements for good jobs in foreign countries at wages they could never imagine at home.

In Ukraine alone, the number of women who leave is staggering. As many as 400,000 women under 30 have gone in the past decade, according to their country’s interior ministry. The Thai Embassy in Moscow, which processes visa applications from Russia and Ukraine, says it receives nearly 1,000 visa applications a day, most of these from women.

Israel is a fairly typical destination. Prostitution is not illegal here, although brothels are, and with 250,000 foreign male workers—most of whom are single or here without their wives—the demand is great. Police officials estimate that there are 25,000 paid sexual transactions every day. Brothels are ubiquitous.

None of the women seem to realize the risks they run until it is too late. Once they cross the border their passports will be confiscated, their freedoms curtailed and what little money they have taken from them at once.

"You want to tell these kids that if something seems too good to be true it usually is," said Lyudmilla Biryuk, a Ukrainian psychologist who has counseled women who have escaped or been released from bondage. "But you can ’t imagine what fear and real ignorance can do to a person."

The women are smuggled by car, bus, boat and plane. Handed off in the dead of night, many are told they will pick oranges, work as dancers or as waitresses. Others have decided to try their luck at prostitution, usually for what they assume will be a few lucrative months. They have no idea of the violence that awaits them.

The efficient, economically brutal routine—whether here in Israel, or in one of a dozen other countries—rarely varies. Women are held in apartments, bars and makeshift brothels; there they service, by their own count, as many as 15 clients a day. Often they sleep in shifts, four to a bed. The best that most hope for is to be deported after the police finally catch up with their captors.

Few ever testify. Those who do risk death. Last year in Istanbul, Turkey, according to Ukrainian police investigators, two women were thrown to their deaths from a balcony while six of their Russian friends watched.

In Serbia, also last year, said a young Ukrainian woman who escaped in October, a woman who refused to work as a prostitute was beheaded in public.

In Milan, Italy, a week before Christmas, the police broke up a ring that was holding auctions in which women abducted from the countries of the former Soviet Union were put on blocks, partially naked, and sold at an average price of just under $1,000.

"This is happening wherever you look now," said Michael Platzer, the Vienna, Austria-based head of operations for the U.N.’s Center for International Crime Prevention. "The Mafia is not stupid. There is less law enforcement since the Soviet Union fell apart and more freedom of movement. The earnings are incredible. The overhead is low—you don’t have to buy cars and guns. Drugs you sell once and they are gone. Women can earn money for a long time."

"Also," he added, "the laws help the gangsters. Prostitution is semilegal in many places and that makes enforcement tricky. In most cases punishment is very light."

In some countries, Israel among them, there is not even a specific law against the sale of human beings.

Platzer said that although certainly "tens of thousands" of women were sold into prostitution each year, he was uncomfortable with statistics since nobody involved has any reason to tell the truth.

"But if you want to use numbers," he said, "think about this. Two hundred million people are victims of contemporary forms of slavery. Most aren’t prostitutes, of course, but children in sweatshops, domestic workers, migrants. During four centuries, 12 million people were believed to be involved in the slave trade between Africa and the New World. The 200 million—and many of course are women who are trafficked for sex—is a current figure. It’s happening now. Today."

Distress Calls: Far-Flung Victims Provide Few Clues

The distress call came from Donetsk, the bleak center of coal production in southern Ukraine. A woman was screaming on the telephone line. Her sister and a friend were prisoners in a bar somewhere near Rome. They spoke no Italian and had no way out, but had managed, briefly, to get hold of a man’s cell phone.

"Do you have any idea where they are, exactly?" asked Olga Shved, who runs La Strada in Kiev, Ukraine’s new center dedicated to fighting the trafficking of women in Eastern Europe and the countries of the former Soviet Union.

The woman’s answer was no. Ms. Shved began searching for files and telephone numbers of the local consul, the police, anybody who could help.

"Do they know how far from Rome they are?" she asked, her voice tightening with each word. "What about the name of the street or the bar? Anything will help," she said, jotting notes furiously as she spoke. "We can get the police on this, but we need something. If they call back, tell them to give us a clue. The street number. The number of a bus that runs past. One thing is all we need."

Ms. Shved hung up and called officials at Ukraine’s Interior Ministry and the Foreign Ministry. Her conversations were short, direct and obviously a routine part of her job.

That is because Ukraine—and to a lesser degree its Slavic neighbors Russia and Belarus—has replaced Thailand and the Philippines as the epicenter of the global business in trafficking women. The Ukrainian problem has been worsened by a ravaged economy, an atrophied system of law enforcement, and criminal gangs that grow more brazen each year. Young European women are in demand, and Ukraine, a country of 51 million people, has a seemingly endless supply. It is not that hard to see why.

Neither Russia nor Ukraine reports accurate unemployment statistics. But even partial numbers present a clear story of chaos and economic dislocation. Federal employment statistics in Ukraine indicate that more than two-thirds of the unemployed are women. The government also keeps another statistic: employed but not working. Those are people who technically have jobs, and can use company amenities like day-care centers and hospitals. But they do not work or get paid. Three-quarters are women. And of those who have lost their jobs since the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991, more than 80 percent are women.

The average salary in Ukraine today is slightly less than $30 a month, but it is half that in the small towns that criminal gangs favor for recruiting women to work abroad. On average, there are 30 applicants for every job in most Ukrainian cities. There is no real hope; but there is freedom.

In that climate, looking for work in foreign countries has increasingly become a matter of survival.

"It’s no secret that the highest prices now go for the white women," said Marco Buffo, executive director of On the Road, an antitrafficking organization in northern Italy. "They are the novelty item now. It used to be Nigerians and Asians at the top of the market. Now it’s the Ukrainians."

Economics is not the only factor causing women to flee their homelands. There is also social reality. For the first time, young women in Ukraine and Russia have the right, the ability and the willpower to walk away from their parents and their hometowns. Village life is disintegrating throughout much of the former Soviet world, and youngsters are grabbing any chance they can find to save themselves.

"After the wall fell down, the Ukrainian people tried to live in the new circumstances," said Ms. Shved. "It was very hard, and it gets no easier. Girls now have few opportunities yet great freedom. They see ‘Pretty Woman,’ or a thousand movies and ads with the same point, that somebody who is rich can save them. The glory and ease of wealth is almost the basic point of the Western advertising that we see. Here the towns are dying. What jobs there are go to men. So they leave."

First, however, they answer ads from employment agencies promising to find them work in a foreign country. Here again, Russian crime gangs play a central role. They often recruit people through seemingly innocuous "mail order bride" meetings. Even when they do not, few such organizations can operate without paying off one gang or another. Sometimes want ads are almost honest, suggesting that the women can earn up to $1,000 a month as "escorts" abroad. Often they are vague or blatantly untrue.

Recruiting Methods: Ads Make Offers Too Good To Be True

One typical ad used by traffickers in Kiev last year read: "Girls: Must be single and very pretty. Young and tall. We invite you for work as models, secretaries, dancers, choreographers, gymnasts. Housing is supplied. Foreign posts available. Must apply in person."

One young woman who did, and made it back alive, described a harrowing journey. "I met with these guys, and they asked if I would work at a strip bar," she said. "Why not, I thought. They said we would have to leave at once. We went by car to the Slovak Republic where they grabbed my passport. I think they got me new papers there, but threatened me if I spoke out. We made it to Vienna, then to Turkey. I was kept in a bar and I was told I owed $5,000 for my travel. I worked for three days, and on the fourth I was arrested."

Lately, the ads have started to disappear from the main cities—where the realities of such offers are known now. These days the appeals are made in the provinces, where their success is undiminished.

Most of the thousands of Ukrainian women who go abroad each year are illegal immigrants who do not work in the sex business. Often they apply for a legal visa—to dance, or work in a bar—and then stay after it expires.

Many go to Turkey and Germany, where Russian crime groups are particularly powerful. Israeli leaders say that Russian women—they tend to refer to all women from the former Soviet Union as Russian—disappear off tour boats every day. Officials in Italy estimate that at least 30,000 Ukrainian women are employed illegally there now.

Most are domestic workers, but a growing number are prostitutes, some of them having been promised work as domestics only to find out their jobs were a lie. Part of the problem became clear in a two-year study recently concluded by the Washington-based nonprofit group Global Survival Network: Police officials in many countries just don’t care.

The network, after undercover interviews with gangsters, pimps and corrupt officials, found that local police forces—often those best able to prevent trafficking—are least interested in helping.

Gillian Caldwell of Global Survival Network has been deeply involved in the study. "In Tokyo," she said, "a sympathetic senator arranged a meeting for us with senior police officials to discuss the growing prevalence of trafficking from Russia into Japan. The police insisted it wasn’t a problem, and they didn’t even want the concrete information we could have provided. That didn’t surprise local relief agencies, who cited instances in which police had actually sold trafficked women back to the criminal networks which had enslaved them."

Official Reactions: Best-Placed To Help, but Least Inclined

Complacency among police agencies is not uncommon.

"Women’s groups want to blow this all out of proportion," said Gennadi Lepenko, chief of Kiev’s branch of Interpol, the international police agency. "Perhaps this was a problem a few years ago. But it’s under control now."

That is not the view at Ukraine’s parliament—which is trying to pass new laws to protect young women—or at the Interior Ministry.

"We have a very serious problem here, and we are simply not equipped to solve it by ourselves," said Mikhail Lebed, chief of criminal investigations for the Ukrainian Interior Ministry. "It is a human tragedy, but also, frankly, a national crisis. Gangsters make more from these women in a week than we have in our law-enforcement budget for the whole year. To be honest, unless we get some help we are not going to stop it."

But solutions will not be simple. Criminal gangs risk little by ferrying women out of the country; indeed, many of the women go voluntarily. Laws are vague, cooperation between countries rare and punishment of traffickers almost nonexistent. Without work or much hope of a future at home, an eager teen-ager will find it hard to believe that the promise of a job in Italy, Turkey or Israel is almost certain to be worthless.

"I answered an ad to be a waitress," said Tamara, 19, a Ukrainian prostitute in a massage parlor near Tel Aviv’s old Central Bus Station, a Russian- language ghetto for the cheapest brothels. "I’m not sure I would go back now if I could. What would I do there, stand on a bread line or work in a factory for no wages?"

Tamara, like all other such women interviewed for this article, asked that her full name not be published. She has classic Slavic features, with long blond hair and deep green eyes. She turned several potential customers away so she could speak at length with a reporter. She was willing to talk as long as her boss was out. She said she was not watched closely while she remained within the garish confines of the "health club."

"I didn’t plan to do this," she said, looking sourly at the rich red walls and leopard prints around her. "They took my passport, so I don’t have much choice. But they do give me money. And believe me, it’s better than anything I could ever get at home."

Yitzhak Tyler, the chief of undercover activities for the Haifa police, is a big, open-faced man who doesn’t mince words.

"We got a hell of a problem on our hands," he said. The port city of 200,000 has become the easiest entryway for women brought to Israel to work as prostitutes—though by no means the only one. Sometimes they walk off tour boats, but increasingly they come with forged documents that enable them to live and work in Israel. These have often been bought or stolen from elderly Jewish women in Russia or Ukraine.

"This is a sophisticated, global operation," Tyler said. "It’s evil, and it’ s successful because the money is so good. These men pay $500 to $1,000 for a Ukrainian or Russian woman. Do you understand what I am telling you? They will buy these women and make a fortune out of them."

To illustrate his point, Tyler grabbed a black calculator and started calling out the sums as he punched them in.

"Take a small place," he said, "with 10 girls. Each has 15 to 20 clients a day. Multiply that by say 200 shekels. So say 30,000 shekels a day comes in to each place. Each girl works 25 days a month. Minimum."

Tyler was busy doing math as he spoke. "So we are talking about 750,000 shekels a month, or about $215,000. A man often owns five of these places. That’s a million dollars. No taxes, no real overhead. It’s a factory with slave labor. And we’ve got them all over Israel."

The Tropicana, in Tel Aviv’s bustling business district, is one of the busiest bordellos. The women who work there, like nearly all prostitutes in Israel today, are Russian. Their boss, however, is not.

"Israelis love Russian girls," said Jacob Golan, who owns this and two other clubs, and spoke willingly about the business he finds so "successful." "They are blonde and good-looking and different from us," he said, chuckling as he drew his hand over his black hair. "And they are desperate. They are ready to do anything for money."

Always filled with half-naked Russian women, the club is open around the clock. There is a schedule on the wall next to the receptionist—with each woman’s hours listed in a different color, and the days and shifts rotating, as at a restaurant or a bar. Next to the schedule a sign reads, "We don’t accept checks." Next to that there is a poster for a missing Israeli woman.

There are 12 cubicles at the Tropicana where 20 women work in shifts, eight during the daytime, 12 at night. Business is always booming, and not just with foreign workers. Israeli soldiers, with rifles on their shoulders, frequent the place, as do business executives and tourists.

Golan was asked if most women who work at the club do so voluntarily. He laughed heartily.

"I don’t get into that," he said, staring vacantly across his club at four Russian women sitting on a low couch. "They are brought here and told to work. I don’t force them. I pay them. What goes on between them and the men they are with, how could that be my problem?"

Deterrent Strategies: A System that Fails Those Who Testify

Every once in a while, usually with great fanfare and plenty of advance notice, Golan gets raided. He pays a fine, and the women without good false documents are taken to prison.

If they are deported, the charges against them are dropped. But if a woman wants to file a complaint, then she must remain in prison until a trial is held. "In the past four years," Betty Lahan, prison director of Neve Tirtsa here, said, "I don’t know of a single case where a woman chose to testify."

Such punitive treatment of victims is the rule rather than the exception. In Italy, where the police say killings of women forced into prostitution average one a month, parliament tried to create a sort of witness protection program. But it only allowed women to stay in the country for one year and did nothing to hide their identities.

"The deck is just so completely stacked against the women in all this," said Daniella Pompei, an immigration specialist with the community of Sant’ Egidio, the Catholic relief agency in Rome. "The police is the last place these women want to go." She said that only 20 women had ever used the protection program.

It is not clear who will stop the mob. On a trip to Ukraine late last year, Hillary Rodham Clinton spoke out about the new slave trade that has developed so rapidly there. The United States and the European Union have plans to work together to educate young women about the dangers of working abroad. Other initiatives, like stays of deportation for prisoners, victims’ shelters and counseling, have also been discussed.

"I don’t care about any of that," said Lena, a young Latvian, one of the inmates waiting to be deported here. "I just want to know one thing. How will I ever walk down the street like a human being again?"

While Ms. Borsook has the concepts and the lingo down, she doesn't have the motivating forces down by a mile. The reason people in the valley don't date is the same reason they don't have other hobbies. The prevalent focus for mental, phsyical, and spiritual energy is twofold - work, and money. Men brag in locker room tones about how much they've earned, spent, or worked lately - not about their sexual conequests. Getting some means you're wasting your time and energy, spilling your seed, if you will, a sort of Silicon Valley Onanism that is simply not looked upon highly. After all, why bother when your portfolio is easier to manage, and your conqests in the office at 3am are so much more proveable? It's just another symptom of a place with very strange priorities, one that grows sicker all the time. The fetish people are the healthy ones - at least they're getting out occasionally.