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Archiving Home Movies? 35

Posted by Cliff from the keeping-the-family-memories dept.
Ronin Developer asks: "I've inherited a large 8mm and Super8 movie and 35mm slide collection. Some of the films date back to the late 40's and early 50's and are important family history. Unbelievabley, most of the films are still in decent shape but won't be forever. So, I'd like to find a way to archive them to CD or DVD. Can anyone point me in a direction where I can find software, hardware or professional services for this task without costing a small fortune?" If these things are expensive, how long do you think it will be before the market makes such services cheap enough for the average family?
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Archiving Home Movies? More

Archiving Home Movies?

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  • Archive your movies.... (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Belive it or not, your most stable archive would be a... black & white print of the film!

    Others have touched on stability problems of magnetic or optical media, although no one (so far) has said anything about format stability. (Do you have any idea how hard it is to find anything to play my 1/2" EIAJ-format open reel videotapes of Monty Python left over from the '70s?) Film has been around for a long time, there's a lot of it out there, and there should be equipment for viewing it available for as long as you need to worry about it :->.

    Also remember that any scan of the images you have will probably result in some resolution/contrast losses. Video still isn't as good as film here. Black & White because color dyes can fade (exposure to light accelerates this, but they'll do it spontaneously), and a print to get rid of any crumby splices. A good film lab should be able to do a print for not a lot of $$.

    If you're really into preserving a color film, you can have black-and-white separations made (one each: for yellow, cyan, and magenta.) Then you can always reconstitute the color balance later, provided you have all three prints. This is what studios like Disney do, but be warned that few labs are equipped to do it, and it's really expen$$$ive.

    Finally, whatever you do, hang on to the originals. That way, if something new comes along in 20 years, you will still have them to use if that's possible.

  • Like the subject, I was asking for VCD creating programs for Linux. Sure you can do it in windows, but I don't really want to unless there are none for Linux. So, I asked, are there?
  • Is there any (commercial or free) programs that can do what's necessary to burn VCDs? I've found some free MPEG1 encoders, but they do only video (not sound+video). And then comes the burning process, which I haven't found a thing...

    Or are there VCD players for Linux? Ones I have burned in Windows only work for a track or two. After that they give read errors, so my DVD is the only thing I can use to watch them.
  • Umm, You couldnt afford to use this company. This company was started by a ex-Microsoft employee along with someone from Real Networks. There clientel is mainly major record labels. I dont even know if they do that small of volume. Like they did Sony's 250,000 cd archive and digitized it for them. So reall, they are a big professional company that does huge huge orders. There was an article about them in wired, the one about MP3's this summer. July or something. I suggest looking up a media conversion company in your local phonebook. Most do VHS to VCD conversion,and some probably even DVD.
  • If you're obsessed about quality just play back at 1/3 speed and capture at 640x480 8fps. Use Quicktime JPEG at quality 80. Capture audio onto another track at 44100 16 bit seperately. Set the frame rate to 24 and render another Quicktime movie with audio and video. This resolution is overkill for 8mm film and Hi-8 video. 320x480 might be sufficient for home movies. If you can't play back at 1/3 speed play at full speed and capture at 10fps. Capture a second copy at 320x240 24fps and archive two movies at the different resolutions.

    As long as there is UNIX and a C compiler you'll be able to play back Quicktime JPEG. Who knows what's going to happen with the Microsoft and MPEG formats. MPEG is heavily patented and Microsoft is Microsoft.
  • I'd like to see a source for this information. While most of my CDs are from the 1990s, I've got about 20 or so in the 10 to 15 year-old range. They've certainly not been stored carefully -- they've probably spent a couple of cumulative years in cars. Not a single one has shown any sign of degradation.
  • By the title of this post I was hoping someone had asked about a web site where people can archive their home videos - for anyone to download - but then, I guess they'd probably be overwhelmed by porn.

    Joseph Elwell.
  • The All-In-Wonder 128 does not capture using hardware. It may do a little motion estimation in the hardware (at least for decoding) but the encoder is software only. Notice how you cannot do MPEG2 video encoding at full screen on anything less than a PIII? The 128 was a disappointment to me in the encoding, the video comes out soft. Nothing close to hardware mpeg-1 or 2. Can't do much motion analysis in real-time without a dedicated chip.
  • Second.

    The absolute best archival format for audiovisual imagery at this point is 35mm b&w separation negatives with an optical soundtrack, stored in vacuum packages in a radiation protected environment.

    One quibble: the separation negs are red, green, and blue -- the light primaries, not the pigment ones (CYMK).

    The projected lifespan of such storage is at least 150 years, based on current information.

    Getting the info back _off_ the film is a bit time consuming, though... ;-)

    (PS: Sony AV-3650's aren't _that_ hard to find...)

    Cheers,
  • In the Windows world, I have used XingMPEG encoder to generate VCD-compatible movie files (There are some odd requirements) and used Nero Burning Rom to put them on cds.
  • I've been thinking about this a lot lately - with the amount of video and photos (not to mention copies of the old family albums) I'll need a huge array and a (DLT or two). I think it would be worth it though if I can get the money to do it ($$$). Tear this idea apart guys....
  • I've had very good success capture from a Hi-8 camera to this card to Mpeg.

    Just another datapoint on the hardware side.

  • CD/DVD doesn't last very long (Score:3)

    by Knight ( 10458 ) on Wednesday September 22, 1999 @10:50AM (#1666353)
    You might consider backing them up on some sort of tape after you turn them into MPEG. CDs and DVDs haven't been shown to last much more than 10-15 years unless in a cold, dry, dark environment; and even then, they don't last as long as some other formats. The government, for one, does not use optical media for storage for this reason.

    If you need to point-and-click to administer a machine,
  • I realize that one would think home movies are just video. Audio is a HUGE part of creating a relevant memory as well. Use a good microphone to copy the audio tracks to MP3 format and put the film away safely. Vacuum packing would be IDEAL. Wait for a little while for good video capturing to come along.

    I would REALLY recommend ignoring the comment on coping the movies to VHS. You'll be VERY unhappy with the quality. Use a friend's Beta or BetaMax setup. Try coping the film to Beta[Max] and taking to a college A/V room and using the RCA outs to copy your "stuff" into MPEG files through the best damn capture card you can find. And please, DON'T THROW AWAY THE ORIGINAL FILM!!! You'll want to smack yourself when the computer crashes, the back-ups are blank, and the Beta tape is missing.
  • Whatever you do, hold on to that film. It's already lasted 50 years, which is much longer than any of the common mass storage media are good for, and their resolution is probably quite a bit higher. Find some way to store them in a vacuum (one of those vacuum-packing food sealers would do), and your grandchildren will be posting to Slashdot2050 asking how best to transfer them to holographic quantum nanodisks.

  • Sounds like you need to get a VHS copy first, and then run it through some sort of MPEG-1 encoder (unless you can get an MPEG-2 encoder :) and then burn it onto a CD-R. Alas, the CD-R won't last as long as the film has...

    Also, definitely stick with some sort of MPEG format - since the specs and source code for sample implementations are available computers will be able to handle MPEGs for a _long_ time... unlike some other formats.

    MO media is probably going to last longer - might want to get one of those drives.

  • I'd like to highly suggest that you check out the rec.arts.movies.tech newsgroup, particularly archives of the newsgroup. Your question of home movie conversion/preservation is asked fairly regularly there.

    (Be aware that the topic of feature film preservation is also a common topic there, so steer away from those threads. concern yourself with the home movies type of threads. if you have some historic event or landmark or person in your movies, there are some universities/museums which will preserve the film for free if they can add it to their archives...)
  • for

    If you just want to get the films in a digital format, you can get a cheap television card for you're computer, and capture the videos in raw video format and then convert them to MPEG.

    I don't know about spesfic software, but I know it's posbile to make an MPEG so that you can burn it directly to a compact disk as a "VCD" VCDs are popular in asia, and work in standard DVD players. CD-Rs arn't really as stable as regular CD-ROM disks. The data aria is right on the 'top' of the CD. Once, while trying to was the lable on a CD-R disk, i washed the data right of the disk!

    Some CD-Rs are better. If the data is really that imporntant, you might want to make multiple copys of the CDs and keep those in a dark, dry place.

    Its not really hard to get video and audio onto a computer
    "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
  • If you just want to get the films in a digital format, you can get a cheap television card for you're computer, and capture the videos in raw video format and then convert them to MPEG.

    Unless you have REALLY short home movies, you probably don't want to go the AVI-to-MPEG route. Not only is it slower than Christmas, it also eats harddrive space like it is going out of style. Also, most of the TV capture cards you will find (in the price range you would want to pay) do a pretty crappy job. I have an ATI All-In-Wonder 128 that I picked up for $112 at onsale.com and it captures MPEG2 in hardware.

    There is a review of this card on ArsTechnica.com, if you want to know more.

    Hope this helps...

    -- /v\atthew
  • There are lots of companies that do this; I'm aware of two in my area alone (Annapolis, MD). If you don't have a lot of experience in digital video, leave it to the pros. To really get good quality from those old movies, you at home would have to convert it to Beta, then run it through a GOOD quality capture card from the likes of Targa, Media100, or Radius. Then edit that film with a QUALITY editor like Adobe Premiere. Then archive that data onto DVD (forget CD- the format, size, and life span isn't worth it compared to DVD).
    This is all assuming these films and slides are REAL important to you. This is not a process you can do at home without spending mucho $$, unless you happen to be in that business. Plus, if you burn the film or whatever, it's gone. Business which perform these tasks have backup, repair, and if nothing else, financial guarantees.
    Do a web search, or even the old telephone book. If these are really important to you and yours, go to the pros.
  • Do you really think that a U87 vs SM57 is going to
    make a difference coming out of a 3-5" speaker?

    And most consumer gear is pitiful for this, and
    good gear is $$.

    If it is really important to him, he should get a
    professional to do it.

  • Actually, a metal/ceramic case of some sort would probably be more helpful, and certainly would be a good thing to keep your vacume sealed videos in..
    a lot of the degradation that happens to film is the result of radiation hitting it. Shielding it from this is definatly important if you intend to keep it around for a long time..

  • Re:CD/DVD doesn't last very long (Score:3)

    by spinkham ( 56603 ) on Wednesday September 22, 1999 @02:50PM (#1666363)
    CD-R longevity reports [cd-info.com] CD-ROM's (the stamped ones) will last basically as long as you want them too, IIRC. CD-R's (the dye based cd-rom workalike) is claimed to have about 95% reliability at 75-100 years, depending on the brand if stored in a dark place at about room tempature (25c, about 75F). CD-RW's are worse, from what I've heard, but this is mearly hearsay.. Also to keep in mind, if you keep you disks in a light place, a humid place, or in a hotter place, the disk life would be much much shorter. Check out Kodak's permanance page [kodak.com] for more info on how temperature, light, and humidity affect CD-R's. There is other good info in their other sections you can reach from this page too. However, in 10 years you will probably consolidate your collection onto a whole lot less of whatever format we have to replace DVD-Rs (or on high capacity DVD-Rs for that matter..), so reliability beyond that is not really an issue. At worst, if you plan on recopying every 35 years or so(1/3 to 1/2 the claimed reliable shelf life), you should have no problems. (BTW, all info for this post was found by doing a search for "cd-r permanence" at www.google.com. A little searching goes a long way ;-)
  • I have the same problem with over 5 hours of film, some of which has already gone beyond hope, (60+ years old, stored poorly). Right now, I just had them transfered over to VHS, with several copies. I choose VHS over Beta since one of my goals was to allow relatives to enjoy the memories now.

    It's important to scatter copies, because even if the quality is low, the probability of the film surviving and remaining in the hands of relatives increases proportionately to the number of copies.

    I just found out about a company that will take your content and encode it to any format you want. They will provide it back as a CD or FTP (for smaller files). They will also host for streaming video. While they seem to be targeting the business market, I plan to see what they can do for my home movies.

    http://www.encoding.com/sol utions/get_a_quote/main.html [encoding.com]
    will allow you to request a quote. The page is a bit confusing and I can't vouch for the quality of the work.
  • I have been archiving video to CDs or to network storage for the last 2 years. For Capture I have been using the Hauppauge TV Capture Card. You can either capture to a avi file then compress it at a later date {Slower Computer} or use Windows Media Tools to dynamically create a compressed movies. I have typically gotten 57 to 70 minutes of video/audio on a CDR. A Hauppauge Capture card ranges from 79 to 149 you may also find rebates. AVI to MPG converters can be found on the internet freely and Windows Media Tools is free off Microsoft's site.
  • Here's an idea, although I don't know how practical it is: Do what the pro's do and what pro/ams do-- transfer the films. But don't transfer to VHS or BETA, but to Digital Video. Who knows how long vcr mediums will be around, or DV for that matter, but when you transfer it digitally, it's archived digitally and then you can do with it what you want. You can transfer it yourself by getting a DV cam, a super8 projector, and a projecting screen. This seems arcane, but it's what the pro's do, they just use really sophisticated equipment. If you don't have access to a DV cam, hold onto those prints; you'll be able to in a few years. Also, the last transfer house I went to actually mastered onto DV and then MIXED DOWN for my VHS dupe. You could just cut out the VHS part and ask for the master. This is cheap, about .10 cents a foot. So, now that you have your DV tape, you can figure out a way to dump it to hard disk. If not, community cable stations usually now have DV decks maybe you could use. Or rig the cam?

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