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Ask Slashdot: The Dish 210

Posted by CmdrTaco from the I-want-the-sci-fi-channel dept.
Figured I'd step on Cliff's toes and ask my own question. I live in an area with poor cable service and have pretty much accepted that if I want the Sci Fi channel and all the other cool channels, I'm going to need to get a Dish. Net access would be nice, but its not going to be a deciding factor. Ideally I wouldn't need cable- I don't care about local channels but I need the networks too (FOX for the X-Files and Futurama especially). So here it comes: Which Dish? I see many networks with many features, but which one is best? I want lots of channels, but I'm not rich. But I'd like my surround system to sound really good (course first I probably better get a center channel and some good rear speakers *grin*).
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Ask Slashdot: The Dish

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  • DirecTV/DircPC (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I did some research some time ago. I live in the country, and we can only use satellite or antenna for TV.

    Well, there is a company that sells driver software for Linux which will make a DirecPC work. The DirecPC is an ISA card, and the satellite downloads internet data at 50KBps (400kbps). In actual use, I've averaged around 16-20KBps, but once in awile a long download hit the magical 50KBps max bandwidth, and that was exciting! Faster than the shared T1 at school.

    Now, you are saying, what has an internet satellite dish got to do with getting channels, dude? Well, I'll tell you. Some time ago they came out with a DirecTV/DirecPC combo deal. I called the company and inquired, since this would fit my needs perfectly. Apparently, the TV and Internet portions of this satellite run off two totally different cables, so..... Their combo box comes with a TV signal receiver, all you need to do is find that company with the Linux drivers, and whammo, you now have 200+ TV channels and a 50KBps download internet service, all in one smallish satellite!

    Can't beat that, if it fits your needs.

    Torsten
    torsten@inetw.net

  • God will get your dish. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Don't get a dish. TV is evil. Let me tell
    you a true story about my friends who live out
    on top of a big hill in west virginia.

    They got a primestar dish, and everyone loved
    it. Everyone in the family, Mom, Dad, and
    two kids spent all their time watching a
    million channels and not talking to each other,
    or reading, or going outside to look at the world.

    Finally, God (I guess) looks down and says
    this is no good. He sends a bolt of lightning
    to destroy the dish and the tv. No tv, so
    now the family has to talk and read and stuff.
    Everyone is much happier now. Hi Greg.

    -- cary

  • Re:Regulations on broadcast networks (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Congress already has a bill before them that has passed through the House allowing the satellite carriers to offer the local networks. Dish already offers the networks in the major markets and DirecTV will follow suit once (if) the measure passes.

  • DSS==slow and gritty (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I've had a DSS dish for a couple of years now with an RCA receiver. The menu and channel-changing is very slow and unresponsive. Very much like an underpowered computer. Perhaps the other brands are better.

    The picture quality is good for static images. When there is fast motion, dissolves, rave parties with strobe lights, etc, the picture gets MPEGged really badly. Everything breaks into little squares. This is typical and is not related to any one brand of receiver. It took me a while to notice it, but now I see it all the time. It may not bother you if you have a small television.

    Videotaping from DSS is not high quality, the combination of MPEG compression plus analog tape makes it look third generation.

    There used to be a hack for using a PC as a smartcard emulator, but that stopped working a long time ago, and if anyone is doing it now they are keeping quiet about it.

    The two providers for DSS content, DirecTV and USSB, have merged into one company. So far they are still acting as two companies, but that is bound to change.

    The music channels are unencrypted and in MPEG 1 layer 2 format if are talented enough to solder. That's a rumor, I don't know anyone who has done it. Could be a cool idea, though.

    The other two small dishes:
    Primestar has been bought by DirecTV. Look for that service to stop eventually. The dishes are a bit bigger, too.
    Dish Network is a slightly better deal and people I know who have it like it better than DSS.
  • This works regardless of where you live, because RVs by their very nature travel to remote areas where no local TV reception exists. There's also no way for the salesman or the government to know that you're REALLY going to put that DSS receiver in your house. And since RV have 120VAC anyway, it's not like you have to buy a special powered DSS receiver anyway. It's win Win WIN for the usually shafted consumer!

    - Sitckin' it to The Man, Flippin' the bird to stupid laws

  • Check out the Dish Network (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I live pretty far out in the country and the cable goes out when the wind blows. So I got Primestar. I was pretty happy with them until they started screwing up my billing. That's when I started looking around. I saw the Dish Network at SEARS. It really caught my attention. Dish Network [dishnetwork.com] seems to be keeping up with technology and seemed to have their eyes on the future. Just last night on the Dish info channel I saw that they now have an HDTV modulator that plugs into the bus on the back of the box. Pretty nice. Now all I have to do is get an HDTV set. The video for the Dish is MPEG-2. I thought it was my imagination that the color was sharper until friends and family noticed it too. It was pretty easy to setup. The hardest part of that sequence was figuring out how to program the remote control. The documenation that came with the system wasn't that hot but I got all the info that I needed from their website. (Maybe it wasn't the doc's fault. Maybe I'm just too used to reading online. ;-)) I've had it since March and it's been great.

  • Re:No networks (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I subscribe to Dish Network (owned by EchoStar) and love it. I get all the network channels, plus over 160 others. I have two dishes, and the house has four receivers. We'll be adding a third dish for more programming very soon (EchoStar just launched EchoIV which will provide a ton _more_ local programming along with lots of other goodies). The quality is excellent and we've never had any problems with their service.
    One of my favorite features is that all upgrades to the equipment are done automatically when the unit is not in use. Periodically they send out software upgrades which take effect as soon as you turn the unit off. The remote is a universal remote which works with virtually all VCRs, TVs, Laserdisc/DVD players, etc. so you'd most likely be dropping all but one remote instead of adding to a pile of them.
    They also provide several different models of the receiver, some with VCRs (even a dual-deck VCR) built in. The mid-range to upper-range receivers use UHF remotes, so you can have a single receiver serving multiple TVs throughout the house and you'll be able to use the remote from anywhere within 100ft. (through walls, etc.) of the receiver.
    The "info" screen alone is enough to kill everything from Primestar (which uses old equipment, a larger dish and is not software-upgradeable).
    And the killer channel is 213 (NASA-TV): 23.5 hours every day of views of earth and the other planets from the various satellites and probes.
    All this and no antenna needed.
  • It still works to use a PC to "fix" your smartcard to get all the channels and movies for free, we still do it. Just don't leave your fixed card in over night, they do random checks and will zap a card getting all the channels and movies
  • Are there signal transmitters available to send a box's output to a TV elsewhere in the house? Got any particular sites for em? This apartment I'm currently in has only one cable outlet, so I had to run a huge cable all along the wall to the bedroom. Sure I could move, but I'm lazy. :)
  • I have DirecTV + USSB over here with no complaints. Good sound feed, great video quality, and so far no interruptions due to weather (eastern pennsylvania location). The only problem is the networks, I still have to get ABC/CBS/NBC/Fox through an antenna due to the fact that I live in a service area. If you can get a waiver from your local stations or live X miles away from an antenna (not sure of the value of X), you can get those channels though. By default they show up in the guide and just don't work though. As for cost, It's reasonable if you don't go too nuts with the premium channels. My bill averages a little over $100 a month, but that's because I get quite literally EVERYTHING but the adult stations from both providers and that also includes the "rentals" from PPV at three bucks a whack.
  • Primestar's not going out of business. DirecTV did, however, buy them out and will be replacing Primestar subscribers' equipment with DirecTV equipment.
  • Each box requires a seperate antena

    Not true. You can use splitters to distribute the signal to several receivers, and a switch if you want to receive more than one satellite.

    The most important decision is to choose the right LNB (Low Noise Blockconverter - the "real" antenna, mounted to the dish with a pole).

    • The simple LNBs have but one connector. With them you can only receive one Band; the polarity (horizontal or vertical) can be changed by sending a 14/18V current through the cable that also carries the satellite signal (the receiver does that).
    • There are two different types of LNBs with two connectors. One has separate outputs for horizontal/vertical polarization. That's perfect if you have a switch. You can have many receivers attached to that switch and it will give them horizontal or vertical polarity input, whichever they request.
    • Another Dual-LNB is two Single-LNBs rolled into one: you will get horizontal/vertical polarity on each of the two connectors, depending on which Voltage (14/18) you apply. If you don't have more than two receivers, this solution is for you - you don't need a switch and can save on that extra dish that you would need for the two Single-LNB solution.
    • Then there are the Quad-LNBs. They will give you separate outputs for horizontal/vertical on two different bands (Ku-Low and Ku-High). Of course you need a switch for that baby.

    A special case of both the single and dual LNB are the so-called "digital LNBs". By (not) modulating the 14/18V voltage with 22kHz they switch between the Ku-Low and Ku-High band.

    I am using a 8-way Spaun [spaun.com] Multiswitch with two Quad-LNBs to receive analog and digital programming from both Astra and Eutelsat Hotbird. The receiver and the switch communicate via DiSEqC [diseqc.de] - that's basically a cable-modem standard for this special application. Works fine. And you need it if you want to receive both Ku bands from two satellites; 14/18V and 22kHz gives you only four combinations whereas you need eight.

  • DSS overview (Score:3)

    by jandrese ( 485 ) <kensama@vt.edu> on Tuesday June 08, 1999 @05:51AM (#1860279) Homepage Journal
    Well, I don't have any experiance with other systems, but I can tell you about the RCA DSS system.

    First, the picture quality is very good, and stays that way even in stormy weather...to a point. Once the weather gets bad enough, the signal is broken and the decoder just stops, freezing the current picture on the screen until the weather clears up. This happens very infrequently where we live though.

    Secondly, the basic offering has quite a few channels, although most of them are crap. Sci-fi is included in the basic package.

    There is quite a selection of pay-per-view movies as well, at a reasonable cost ($2.50, or about what you pay to rent from a video store).

    The guide is a nice feature, just poorly implemented. The interface is slow and rather clumsy, although this may be fixed in newer boxes. The one we have is also quite ugly (it looks like the preview channel with its squarish blocks of programming. All said though, the guide is about 100x better than those preview channels, since you don't have to wait for your channel to scroll up.

    You won't be able to view local channels on the DSS (you will have to use the rabbit ears), unless you live in an area that has no local TV service, and then it takes an act of Congress to get broadcast channels (not to mention a monthly fee). Supposedly this will be changing in the near future, but don't bet the farm on it.

    All in all though, we are very happy with the system, especially compared to the rip-you-off-at-every-corner cable service I have up here.
  • Echostar and Hughes are still fighting that battle --- a bill that will throw out the current local-signal restrictions [skyreport.com] is currently in reconciliation between the differing House and Senate versions.
  • Another thing I forgot to mention is that our Linux box will have the capability to save the MPEG 2 (HDTV!) datastream off to disk (or perhaps stream it across the home network to other PC's/devices). You'll also be able to "pause" an off-the-air show and the video will be spooled off to disk.

    We'll need to write device drivers for the various components. The most interesting will be the driver for the MPEG 2 HDTV device. I'm trying to understand how this device should fit into the existing Video For Linux standard. Anyone have any thoughts ?

  • One of the things I'm trying to understand (I've only been here for a week) is who the target audience for this box will be. I would love to have an open-architecture box where others could add their components. Maybe just leave a PCMCIA slot open ? (Plug in a new card, download the driver from the satellite, insmod...) But if we are targeting the Web TV crowd that's a different story. I know the techincal path I'd prefer...
  • >if you have a very fat pipe, what about sending a
    >set of internet pages to all the home users and
    >have some kind of mechanism on the box that says
    >which pages/sites to cache.


    I think that is kind of the idea. Lots of pages are coming down from the satellite, your box caches some part of them based on your preferences

    If this linux box were on a home-lan then perhaps all home-lan users would have access to the cache.

    Email would be pretty much the same way. Your box would grab your email coming down off the satellite and then report back to a central server that it got it.

  • I think the device will have networking built in, but for recording there will be legal/copyright issues. This will likely prevent you from recording a movie and taking it off of the box. You will probably only be able to play it back on the box that recorded it.
  • Internally the box will be PCI based, but I don't think there will be any open slots...

  • Dish TV from Echostar of course (Score:4)

    by Jim Buzbee ( 517 ) on Tuesday June 08, 1999 @05:59AM (#1860286) Homepage
    I'm a bit biased (I now work for Echostar) but I signed up for Dish TV long before I started work here. The programming options seemed to be better. With Direct TV you had to select from two different companies for channels and they only came in "packages". So if you wanted channel "A" and channel "B" you might have to order one channel package from USSB and another channel package from the other company (I forget the name).

    But the best reason to support Echostar and Dish TV is why I signed on. We are starting a project to put Linux on our set-top boxes. We already have a Web TV/Windows CE box, but we obviously don't want to rely only on Microsoft.

    So I throw a question back at the Slashdot readers, What would you want to see in a Linux based set-top satellite receiver ? We are considering a Web TV type of operation with a local cache fed via our very fat satellite pipe. Home-networking is another option. We will have a browser on the box of course (Mozilla?). Anyone have any thoughts on how to utilize a very fat pipe comming in, but a thin pipe going out ? We haven't yet decided on a CPU. Anyone have any thoughts on that ? This is going to be a very cool project and I'm looking forward to getting it on-line !

  • Primestar is not "going out of buisness" as you say. They were bought. You imply that DirectTV just bought part of the company and left the rest to flounder... DirecTV (or Hughes, their parent company) bought the entire PrimeStar company.

    Secondly, your obviously not a PrimeStar customer. If you were, you would have been bombarded by the constant commercials telling customers whats going to happen, articles in the programming guide, and messages on your monthly bill statements.

    I have spoken to PrimeStar tech support directly. (I hope DirecTV keeps the tech support department around, they were one of the best assets PrimeStar had) What is going to happen is the customers are being asked to wait until DirecTV itself (not any of its dealers, etc) contacts them. Then DirecTV will send some techs to install the new equipment (hense, switch you over). They are planning to offer a similar rental plan that PrimeStar used for most of their customers. The PrimeStar service will continue until everyone is switched over. Thus the customer doesn't have to do anything until they switch them over.

    As for free DISH network equipment, that is just plain FUD being spread by DISH network dealers trying to capitalize on confused PrimeStar customers. When all they got to do is wait and DirecTV will come and install everything for them and get a much better system then the shitty programming packages DISH network provides (yes, I've seen the pricing... UGH)

    -- A satisfied PrimeStar customer looking forward to DirecTV

  • If I didn't get MediaOne and their RoadRunner or whatever they call it now, I would have gotten the DISH network. The nice thing is that they offer local channels in some areas (the rules for that are very strange). The bad thing is that you'd need a second dish to look at the satellite carrying the local channels. Initial prices were kinda high to do that. For me, it would have taken about 2-3 years to recoup the initial costs of DISH vs. the savings I'd get over staying with cable.
  • Posted by =Kane=:

    Hey, ive had a DSS dish since before it was cool. You can now get em for practically nothing if not completely free. We paid like 499 for ours, and last time I saw they're giving em away if you subscribe to just the standard DirecTV package... Easy to use, easy to install, cheap (monthly fees are low even if u rent movies), and you can get good ppv on there....
  • Posted by Dr Evil:

    Unfortunately, there is legislation that states that if you have a local channel, you cannot purchase rights to watch the 'networks' on a Dish - the local channels have preference.

    So basically, if an antenna works, get a GOOD antenna. I believe you can hook both that and the dish up to the reciever by the TV
  • Anyone have any thoughts on how to utilize a very fat pipe comming in, but a thin pipe going out ?

    Let's see... the way it is done now or something, is that you request the internet page you want by phone and get it by the dish.

    If you have a very fat pipe, what about sending a set of internet pages to all the home users and have some kind of mechanism on the box that says which pages/sites to cache. Some parts of the TV could even always be powered on to make sure that when you want to surf your pages, the most recent one is already cached.
    For example, I could decide to cache slashdot, freshmeat, linuxtoday, russiatoday, cnn and userfriendly, and from time to time, turn the TV on to check on those sites... I mean the cached version. All you would have to do would be to send a continuously updated feed to the dishes...

    Oh wait! I wouldn't be able to reply on /. whithout an uplink... err... was just an idea :-)

    ---

  • RCA DSS (Score:2)

    by echo ( 735 )
    As many others have said here, the local channels thing is a pain in the arse, however, I don't tend to watch the big networks anyway... And I can check the web, or newspaper for local news.

    I personally would go with DirecTV and a DSS system.. that way you can pick the brand of reciever you want to have.

    Picture Quality on DSS is only slightly lower than DVD Quality, you notice artifacts sometimes (I think they lower the bit rate for some programming). I haven't ever noticed artifacts while watching pay per view movies though.
    DSS uses the same technology as DVD, MPEG-2.


    Sound Quality is superb on DSS, with most if not all channels in Stereo, and sometimes with Dolby Prologic.

    If you buy a Sony AD-4 or an RCA DRD515 reciever you can recieve true 6-channel Dolby Digital 5.1 Sound...

    You will need a reciever with a Dolby Digital Decoder built in it (watch out for "Dolby Digital Ready" receivers, this is NOT the same)

    Basically, your DSS with have a ToSLink Optical out, which you will hook up to your DD reciever's Optical In. (My Sony 825 has an actual DSS input)

    This optical cable will carry the AC-3 compressed digital signal. AC-3 is like six channel MP3, but with a slightly less lossy compression than MP3.

    The decoder will decompress the AC-3 signal, and route the sound seperately to center, front right, front left, right rear, left rear, and subwoofer speakers.

    The end result is incredible. Quite a few of the pay per view movies are broadcast in Dolby Digital now, and I heard rumors that HBO and the like would eventually start broadcasting in DD.



  • I don't know if it is an option for you, but we recently got Digital Cable(from TCI) and I am very pleased with it. We've got about ~140 channels or so, and the navigation is similar to that of a dish. And of course, it has Sci-fi and all the movie channels you could ever want.

    The only thing about getting a dish is that you may not get your local stations. So if it is an option I would seriously consider digital cable.

  • MPEG 2 HDTV recording would *definitely* be a big win. I believe that if you do not do it, then someone else will. Soon.

    The problem with your fat pipe is that it has high latencies, making it difficult to use for interactive stuff. I think it may be sort-of okay for web browsing, but obviously that has been done, so you should just look at some of the other systems that do it and see what they are like.

    I think a *big* market would be ISPs. ISPs have very very large bandwidth needs, and a good portion of it does not need to be interactive, for instance, news. If you could have one of these things broadcasting USENET news, that would be great, and ISPs would be able to take some load off their DS3s for their customers to use.

    ftp server mirroring would also be useful this way.
  • Here's a question: if I wanted to get a dish set-up that I could hook up to 3 different TVs and they could each watch there own thing:

    is it possible?
    what would be the best/cheapest service?
    what would be the cost/setup(meaning would I need two dishes or what)?

    Thanks.
  • I always loved doing this...I remember one time I came across a field anchor just sitting there in front of the camera,talking to the camera guy for like 30 minutes, waiting for broadcast time...
    You could always pick up bizarre stuff with C-band dishes...Japanese lessons, porn channels having free previews...all sorts of fun stuff. But, then DSS came out,stramgled the market, and nobody buys C-band dishes any more. (My Dad installed them for a living.) Now you can buy a friggin satelitte dish at the grocery store...makes me miss the good ol' days of digging post holes through three foot of caliche and carrying 8-foot dishes up two flights of ladders....

  • I've had good luck with DirecTV (DSS). The quality is way above cable in all respects. The only problem is networks. Because of stupid court tricks, DirecTV was ordered to stop providing network feeds to most of it's customers. Now, you can get a network feed iff you are in an area where at less than half the people can get some signal fragment (any signal at all) half the time (even if the rest get nothing).

    DirecTV is trying to rectify the situation by buying 2 more satelites (done) and arranging to provide local feeds. Unfortunatly that will require a new dish and reciever. I am considering that option when it becomes available.

    Drawback: Signal is lost in heavy rain. Of course, where I live, that seems to be true of cable as well. Dish placement: The dish must have a completely unobstructed line of sight to the satelite. I had to mount mine on a pole in the front yard because of trees. That wasn't such a big deal though.

    I have looked into DirecPC for internet. I won't be getting that because they only support winders (and tech details are sparse). Also, the uplink is still through a standard modem.

    You might also want to check when your local broadcasters will be switching to digital broadcasts. A new line of DSS recievers with built in tuners for DTV are in the works now.

    Given the new things that are about to happen, I would wait a few months to avoid rapid obsolescence.

  • Drawbacks....artifacts artifacts artifacts. Dark movie scenes have box artifacts all over the place. Whatever CODEC they're using is rather stinky. Reception is OK, until it goes RealPlayer on me (breaks up into fairly random blocks of picture data, then freezes) which happens several times a month.

    That's what I see just before rain washes out the signal. They're probably using MPEG for the codec, but have squeezed the bitrate too low. The only other time I see artifacts like that is for really bright flashes when I'm looking for them. Normally, they're not all that noticable.

  • My dad got one of the first DSS systems, and you're right - the guide is badly implemented, slow, and clunky. The graphics processor in the box seems to be terribly underpowered.

    I had the opportunity to play with a newer box the other day, and the guide interface is much cleaner and faster.

  • Disclaimer: I work for OpenTV, so this is a bit of a plug, but in this message I'm not speaking for my employer.

    The Dish Network [dishnetwork.com] should be offering interactive content using OpenTV [opentv.com] by the end of the year. AFAIK, OpenTV will be automatically downloaded into the flash memory of all 4700 and better Boxes. The services will be free (unlike WebTV). I don't have any details on which services will be available, but stay tuned for more info.

    I got DirecTV over two years ago and am mostly happy with it. I'll probably switch to Dish when OpenTV is available for it. It's about time I upgrade to a box with Dolby Digital sound. I'm hoping for HDTV reception (via off-air and satellite) on a Dish box by the time I'm looking to upgrade. The Dish Network seems to be in the lead where technology, amount of content and local content is concerned.

  • Ahem... (clears throat)

    I have a friend that has a DSS dish, and he watches NBC from Philly (I think it's Philly :^})...and we live in Illinois...and it's through the dish.
  • Do yourself a favour and go to Radio Shack, Rob. In the case that the thing takes a crap, you can just take it to the store for warranty service. Besides, they provide enough printed information that would help you decide what service you want. Only problem there would be dealing with the salesdroids, of course...
  • I just got a dual-LNB RCA setup last week, and I love it. Great picture, tons of channels I never knew existed. (For instance, BBC America plays great stuff. I woke up Sunday morning and found I could watch Dr. Who!)

    Pay attention when you set it up so you measure the angle correctly. Once I had that it just took a little nudging to the side to find the satellite. To get network I bought a Terk TV50 antenna. It's good enough to get ABC/CBS/NBC as well as my old cable company ever did.

    BTW, DirecTV and USSB are merging, so I expect some better package options will be coming. I had to buy all the Fox sports channels to get SpeedVision (can't miss F! season!). If you're into baseball etc. you'll absolutely love it.
  • Totally untrue. Yes, Dish makes their own recievers, but JVC makes Dish Network Recievers as well.
  • Depends on which customer service rep you get...some suck..some don't. And Dish watches alt.dbs.echostar...when people really bitch about a problem they have with customer service...it usually gets resolved and the customer posts again and is happy.

    We had billing problems too..but..it all got straightened out....it just happens sometimes.

    Just gotta play customer rep roulette! :)
  • One of my closest friends is a Dish Dealer, so of course I'm going to be biased towards them. But I have also used the product. I also worked for Radio Shack for awhile and am familiar with their product. Buy Dish Network. It really is the best choice. I didn't see any recommendations for primestar on my glimpsing through but I didn't look to closely. If you are thinking about it, don't do it. They are closing their doors, and once they do you will be stuck. You'll have to buy a diff dish system.

    Dish has a /really/ cool system that you should be able to get by now which allows for some really cool geek features. ;-) For example, it has an internal hard drive, and while watching a live show/event, if you need to take a phone call or get something to eat/etc you can just pause it. It will begin recording internally at that point and when you get back you unpause it and it will begin playing from when you left, while still recording the incoming signal for you! /That/ is cool.

    RE:Local channels. You don't need any signed paper from your local channels or known bad reception. All the decision did was say that a dish/cable company can't force you to pay for local channels if you can get them for free just fine. If you want to get local programming, then when they ask you if you get good reception of local channels just say no.

    In regards to the weirdness of dishes local channel support. They are still putting up all the sattelites they need to support local channels in every area. They will be doing areas with major NFL/etc sports teams first (as they will bring in the most revenue for financing hte rest of the areas) and then the others will begin filling in. And AFAIK you don't need a second dish to get local programming. Though there could be some exceptions.

    If you want you can email the guy I know who is a dealer and ask him for more details at chad@cablerunnersNOSPAM.net
  • Klipsch! Klipsch all the way man! Or perhaps B&W if you have the cash.
  • Direct TV is the way to go IMHO. (http://www.directtv.com) They provide all your pay-per-view and regular (cable) station access so that's like 80 channels plus the digital music channels (~30). They also offer stars/Encore networks. If you want HBO/SHOWTIME/CINIMAX you have go additionally get USSB http://www.ussb.com (all they offer is the movie networks) but it's like $10 for 5 HBO's. As for local channels, that's the only problem. If you can prove that there is no way you can receive local programming via conventional antenna , either you live out in the boondocks or next to a sub station, you can't get networks via satellite. But if you can browbeat your local networks into giving you a waiver then you can get networks on Satellite. Otherwise you are stuck with an antenna. Direct TV sells a dual dish that does satellite and direct PC net access (claiming up to 400K). The dish is the cheapest part it's the receiver that's going to run you anywhere from $120 to $250 depending on the model. I like the sony AD-4, runs about 180 on the net sometimes cheaper. Does Dual LNB (2 sat feeds off the same dish) RF remote and Dolby Digital (Lucas eat your heart out) Direct TV service runs anywhere from $20 /month to 60/month then if you buy the mega sports packages (like the entire MLB season) be prepared to pay like $140 just for that. I've been a Direct TV customer for about a year now and I'm extremely happy. I don't even miss my networks, much. One thing to look into is see if you local cable company offers a very basic package for like $10/month. Most do but they don't advertise it as a basic package. Here (Alabama) it's called lifetime package it's like 5 channels (networks, pbs, weather channel) and it runs for about $12 a month. Feel free to send me questions.

    Stick

  • I live in what is called a "conservation area" which forms part of a rural area of the UK called the Cotswolds. Think Agatha Christie murder mysteries or Jeeves and Wooster and you've about pictured my neighbourhood ( We Are Here [demon.co.uk]). This means:

    • Telephone bandwidth limited to 33.6kbps. No "Home Highway" (lo-cost ISDN), in fact no ISDN at all.
    • I am not allowed to put a satellite dish on my house nor in my garden.
    • The roof tiles must remain as clay thus preventing me from putting a dish in the loft (clay blocks signals).
    • I'm not anywhere near a town with cable. In fact not anywhere near a town at all.
    • Due to low population my area is "low priority" for digital terrestrial TV [ondigital.co.uk] (digital multichannel TV through an arial).

    Now what I want to know is why people in towns need high bandwidth. If you want to go shopping, chat with friends, or watch movies, you just go to the mall, the pub or the cinema, right? I can't do this without having to drive a heck of a long way first.

    So I would be prepared to pay MORE for high bandwidth. It would save me money (travel).

    Rural areas have the greatest need for bandwidth- and are prepared to pay more- yet where is the bandwidth the worst? Rural areas, of course. And then we get hit for petrol (gas) tax because we use our cars more! WTF???

    Now what I really want is a 512kbps satellite downfeed which I could then redistribute along our row of cottages [demon.co.uk] using a LAN (I already have a home LAN).

    Thankfully I don't live in the USA so at least I have excellent digital mobile 'phone reception with free email to my handset [genie.co.uk]. Nice.

    --

  • Somebody else has probably posted this, but with my recent experiences, I feel like saying it again.

    Unless there is no local network affiliate or the local station is willing to grant a wavier, you cannot recieve the networks on the satalite. This is due to a federal ruling that says (roughly) if you live in an area where 50% of the people can recieve the station 50% of the time with a 20 foot (I presume high) antenna, you are screwed because you can't have what you really want.

    I finally gave it up and had basic cable installed. The difference in price and service was not enough to be worthy of the fight it would take.

    As far as the hardware, I own an Optimus system. not by any means top of the line, even at time of purchase. Certainly there are much better systems out there, but this one works very nicely. No signal loss except during very bad weather and it has good quality picture and ound.
  • The Wega is indeed *very* nice. Wish I had one.

    I got a 27" Trinitron (KV-27V40) and I've been quite pleased with it. Remember of course that Trinitrons are not quite flat (excepting the Wega) but are slightly convex horizontally. They are flat vertically though, so the overall effect is that of a section of a cylinder.

    The one problem I have with Trinitrons (I get this on my monitor too) is that there are problems with the red and blue signals around the edges of the screen. Generally the left side has some slight red highlights and the right side some slight blue ones. It's not normally noticable, except for Simpsons, where there are a lot of these all over the place.

    I have heard that the really high end monitors (the sort used in video editing studios) have additional circuitry to compensate for this, and that a couple of people have modified their sets to get rid of it. Personally, I manage to live with it, and I think the Trinitrons are generally pretty good.

    There are also some good Panasonics, the last time I shopped around for sets.

  • That should immediately send up a red flag for most Slashdotters. To use Dish Network, you need Dish Network equipment, and vice versa. If you decide later on that you want to switch to DirecTV or some other standards-based DSS provider, you must replace your equipment.

    Sound familiar?

  • Here's my personal take on the dish services. I'm currently a Dish Network (Echostar) subscriber.

    In selecting Dish, I looked at the various offerings from both of the major K-band providers... At the time I got mine (about a year ago), DSS/USSB was considerably more expensive for the channel lineup I wanted. Eventually, prices ended up being similar on both sides of the fence, and I've concluded that DSS is the best bet if you're after pay-per-view and sports, and Dish has a far better regular channel lineup.

    On the technology front, I think Dish has the upper hand here. They design all their equipment in-house (Tho JVC has been making receivers for them lately). Their most recent offerings have been an AC-3 capable receiver (they have 1 or 2 pay-per-view channels that broadcast in Dolby Digital), a receiver that has a built-in 8.5GB hard drive (digital recording software will be available in the next few months, it's currently offered as a "gaming" system), and I hear they will also be offering WebTV directly over the dish at some point. JVC also has a Digital VHS recorder that records the bitstream directly off the feed (you're stuck to 2 hours per tape, tho). All receivers have a built-in (but currently unused) "high-speed data port" (I think it's an expansion slot).

    Also, they recently demonstrated HBO broadcasting over HDTV on the network, so it appears they're HDTV-ready (combined with a $400 HDTV card for the PC -- these are currently available, I'm told -- this gives you a very nice upgrade path)

    Equipment-wise, I'd get at LEAST their 4000 series (it has the ability to control your VCR), but if you've got money to splurge on gear, go for the best one they have :) The system is fairly straightforward to install, especially for anyone used to hacking Linux boxen for a living :)

    Add to that that they're launching 2 more satellites this year, and I think Echostar really has their act together on the technology side, and they offer a killer channel lineup (Including Sci-fi on channel 122). The downside is the lack of local channels, but that's more of a legislation issue rather than a technical one, and you can get them on a second dish. Alternately, you can get the major network flagship stations off the east or west coasts, if your off-air signals are inadequate (they have to send a tech out now to measure field strength, used to be you could just tell them local reception sucked and they'd give 'em to ya, but not anymore), I think that's the result of a court case last winter sometime -- I was no longer able to get the networks when I made a service change.

    And to top all that off, their customer service is quite good, and they do have someone to answer the phone during geek hours (3 am), and you can even order a system over the phone (though your loval A/V dealer will probably have better prices)

    I've been quite happy with it.
  • How about this:
    • record programs to Orb [castlewood.com] disks or to DVD-RAMs (or recordable DVDs when they're available)
    • put an ethernet port on the set-top box so I can wire it to my DSL line (take care of the thin up pipe)
    • program the box over the web with my preferred channel recording schedule
    • watch the program via the web (over that DSL uplink), preferably from work ;)
    • mail the program (as an MPEG file) to other people

    That's for starters.. ;)
  • The neat thing about this, you could get footage of like Dan Rather picking his nose or Tom Brokaw cursing someone out.. Didn't someone put out a video of pre-feed outtakes?
  • Fair enough.. Then how about a PCI interface to
    the dish and Linux drivers, and let US worry about the copyright issues.. ;) ;)
  • A lot of cable providers now offer digital cable. This allows for lots of channels at a fairly low cost and the high quality people have come to expect from recent satellite feeds.
  • The one problem you are going to run into is network programing. Because of new (old?) regulations, you are not allowed to recieve network affiliate programming unless a) you live in an area that is known to recieve an inadequate signal from stations in you area or b) you get written authorization from the stations in your area allowing you to recieve your free-network programming from your dish.

    Aside from that you can just buy a honking antenna and jack it into your dish and get programming via that route.
  • When I bought my DSS dish (2 years ago), the 2nd generation Sony units beat the crap out of RCA when it came to User Interface; quicker, prettier and better featured.

    This is definitely a situation where you should try before you buy. Each vendor of DSS equipment has their own interface and some are much better than others.
  • Yep, Gene Scott is still up there, still making noise. The cigars and hats still make me laugh.

    Network feeds are harder to come by, but NBC is almost never scrambled (W1-KU). Fox scrambles during the baseball and football seasons. Depending on the time of day, CBS and ABC are in the clear.
  • C-Band is cheaper than either cable or what are commonly called the "pizza" dishes. I have all the programming I can stand (the usual CNN, TBS, TNT, SciFi, Comedy, etc.) plus Showtime, Sundance, Flix, and The Movie Channel all for $11.50/mo. Of course, C-Band can be more expensive to get into, but if you look around you can usually find some great deals on used equipment.
  • C-Band is your best bet. Since most program providers offer A La Carte programming (you pick the channels you want) you can avoid the high package costs associated with pizza dishes (check out http://www.bigdish.com for examples). Also, you get wildfeeds and commercial-free programming from the network feeds, yes Dan Rather really does pick his nose during commercial breaks. Take a look at http://www.lyngsat.com/america.shtml to see what transponders are available on the "birds" for N & S America.

    Equipment can be a problem. However, if you're a doit-yourself-er (most of us are I think), you can often get a dish for free. Go for a cruise in the country and look for dishes, if they appear to be in a state of dis-repair, most folks will let you haul it away just to get it out of the yard. Check out the TVRO Scroungers Guide at http://www.nmia.com/~roberts/scrounge for ideas and advise on getting everything you need.

    The obvious analogy here is the same choice you are faced with when choosing Linux or Microsoft or perhaps building your own PC from scratch or buying a bundled mess. C-Band is to TV what Linux is to computing. You can bolt a pizza dish to the side of a house and have all your programming choices made, or you can decide you want to learn a few things about satellite communications and get your hands dirty digging that hole in the yard.

    More than anything though, C-Band gives you some freedom. If you buy DSS or Dish, you'll get roped into a package and you'll end up donating cash to another large communications company. I started out with DSS, but after a year I switched to real satellite TV. DSS's so-called digital picture and sound was complete crockage! They are all trying to cram too many signals on to too little bandwidth resulting in artifacts and generally poor quality signals (I've heard that Dish is better than most though). In addition, small (KU Band) dishes suffer from what is known as "rain fade"...if its raining, you're screwed.

    Also note that all the "digital" dishes get their programming from C-Band first. The analog signal is picked on their dish farms, sampled to digital, and uplinked to their proprietary birds.

    I have a Uniden SQ560 receiver and an Orbitron 2.5 meter dish with C and KU LNBs and I've never looked back. IMO, pizza dishes just plain suck.

    I am currently subscribed to the following at $11.50 per month (try and beat that with a pizza-dish):

    CNN, CNN-Fi/Intl, CNN-HLN, CNN-SI, SciFi, Comedy Cent., History, Discovery, Travel, AnPlanet, TLC, USA, TBS, TNT, A&E, Weather Chnl, Showtime, Showtime2, Flix, Sundance, The Movie Channel. All this along with those things that are "in the clear" like ZDTV (not so great), NASA TV (very cool), TNN, FoxNews, SpeedVision, MC, Gene Scott :), PBS, CSPAN, CSPAN2, and TVLAND (I'm sure I've forgotten a couple, e.g., MTV has been ITC lately).

    Sorry 'bout the rant, but DSS really pissed me off, $300+ down the proverbial drain.

  • I got a great deal through NPS this year (http://www.cssnps.com/index.html), when I called to get quotes from everyone, they told me I could get a year of all the Showtime stuff (SHOW, SHOW2, FLIX, Sundance, and TMC) for only $50. I'm still amazed, but disappointed. Got all these channels and there is still nothing on :)
  • heheh, double wrongeyola
  • I looked into C-band satellite a few years ago, and my big question was can you pull down "cable" channels too. This is particularly important to us Babylon 5 fans out there (Well, I guess it's a moot point now, but you get the idea). Is it just an issue of finding the satellite? I was under the impression that most of those signals were encrypted these days (except for, like, CNN)
    ---------
  • Hughes sells the DirecDuo dish which is an elliptical dish designed to receive the regular three DBS satellites plus the Internet receive service. The dish has two focal points that aim the signals from the three satellites more precisely at the LNB (two of the birds are practically on top of each other while the third is 10 degrees away). As you might guess the aiming of the signal is very important for data quality. Aiming the dish requires a lot more skill than regular DBS (physics tells us that larger dishes require more precise aiming). This service provides regular DirecTV service plus 400 kbs internet service. You still need a modem for sending data. There are many mixed feelings on the net about this; check dejanews for more. This service has been in production for a couple of years.

    The same dish with just one LNB is sold as the internet-only "DirecPC" service. You'd be happier with DirecDuo since it gives you your precious tee vee.

    On broadcast networks: Congress and the House recently passed a law allowing the DBS providers to transmit the network channels regardless of the signal quality in your area. Previously, you have to have no signal and/or you must obtain permission from each local affiliate. However, nothing seems to have happened as a result of the legislation, yet. I don't have the details (see directv.com or primetime24.com). I think the law has yet to go into effect.

    If you really think the networks are that good (I don't) then put an antenna in your attic.


    Kriston J. Rehberg
    http://kriston.net/ [kriston.net]

  • The law concerning broadcast networks is "The Satellite Television Act S. 303." Also, DirecTV/DirecDuo is the only service that lets you get all the channels on one dish. EchoStar (DISH Network) requires two dishes to get all the channels and doesn't yet offer an internet service, though they have announced integrated landline WebTV set-top boxes.

    Kris

    Kriston J. Rehberg
    http://kriston.net/ [kriston.net]

  • Rob,

    As far as I'm concerned DirecTV is a great service, but you must also have: 1) a lifeline cable service (i.e. NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, and Fox), 2) you must be in a good over-the-air reception area, or 3) you must not care about the Major Networks.

    DirecTV's major benefit, IMHO, is the huge number of sports options. In the first year we had it, we took NFL Sunday Ticket, NHL Center Ice, and whatever the deluxe package of regional sports networks is called. This allowed us to watch almost any professional football, professional hockey, or Division I college hockey game that was televised. We have maintained our subscriptions to these services for at least three years.

    Sure, there are multi-channel versions of MTV, HBO, Showtime, Stars, PPV movies, etc. But, I suspect that few who lurk on this site have enough free time to get there money's worth from these.

    If a dish is the only way for you to get a specific channel you want, I would suggest that you get the most full featured service you can, in case you ever want to turn the additional features on. It can be worth the cost difference between DirecTV, and Primestar or the Dish Network just to have the ability to temporarily pay for a lot more services.

    Finally, it is really important that you investigate the dish site requirements for each service you are contemplating. In order to get DirecTV, for example, you need a clear line of site to the Southwestern sky. That means no trees or buildings in the way. Also, the further north you are in the United States, the lower to the Southwestern horizon you will need to aim the dish.

    Good luck.

  • Don't get a Primestar system.

    I don't know if they are still selling them, but I have heard that they are going out of business. They apparently will be exchanging out their systems for DirecTV DSS systems.

  • So why don't you build a garden shed/lean-to
    and stick your big fuck-off dish in there?

    K.
    -
    How come there's an "open source" entry in the
    Jargon File [tuxedo.org], when there isn't a "free software" one?

  • I've looked into dishes lately becasue a) Comcast sucks royally in signal, selection, and value, and b) for the purpose of finding another source of bandwidth with decent download times and which was PORTABLE.

    I'd really like to take my TV and Internet access on the road with me and DirecPC/DirecTV seems to be the only way to do it, not to mention one of the better ways. I live in the boonies anyway, and it would be cheaper than ISDN as it stands now, plus portable---to put on the old Airstream that I'm dying to buy and drive around the country.

    Though I don't like the M$ strategy of DirecTV/PC/Duo, it seems to be the best option for me. ( Yes I know uplink is by hardline, but so what? I can't get ISDN to an Airstream )

  • I really don't understand the pervasiveness of television throughout society. How is it that so many people can waste time watching low quality entertainment? And why is it that passive entertainment is so popular?
  • The various DSS systems are not compatible with each other, so once you get something, you're stuck with it.

    The big ones seem to be DirecTV/USSB [directv.com] and Dish Network [dishnetwork.com]. You'll have to look at the lineup and cost for each and make your own decision.

    Your options for local programming are either get an antenna, or get basic cable. Many cable companies have an unmentioned, unadvertised, ultra-basic package of JUST the broadcast channels. Check with your cable company.

  • I was talking about DISH NETWORK, I just found it
  • I just so happened to be at a friends house when the satellite people were there installing the dish. I brought up the question about local access. They said that while they are not allowed to do it under current law, they do it anyway. They say that someone will call within a couple of days and that you should say that you 1) Havent had regular cable for 6 months. 2) Cannot have an antenna because of tree and reception problem and 3) I cant remember the last one. E-mail me if you want to know. The point is to ask the installer when he does it, he will tell you exactly what to say and you can have the local TV stations from your satellite. Oh by the way this was in Bellmore, NY which is on Long Island Regards, Sean
  • If you have a 'original' satellite dish and not a DSS dish, you can pick up the pre-feeds to all your favorite network programs without having to deal with local info since if you want local info that bad, you can just pick up a newspaper. Plus you can watch all sorts of crazy international shows.

  • Why? Because it requires no brain power. Passive == lazy brains.

    Pretty pathetic, eh?

  • NFL Sunday Ticket is a service of DirectTV only. They are the ones who lock the NFL into exclusive agreements to service only their customers. I see that slowly changing as DishNetwork's subscriber base keeps growing at the rate it is.

    Besides, the only team you really need to see is the Vikings and since they are a top NFC team..Fox broadcasts most of their games! Make sure you get all of the network feeds you can and you can catch most top-name games.

  • A quick correction - it's no longer an ISA card, they now only support the PCI version. This would be all fine and dandy with me, were it not for another couple policy changes they made recently.

    First, they removed the unlimited usage plan availability. I was grandfather claused in, but... Previously, everyone with an ISA card also received a static IP address. I used this all the time with great results to transfer files from work, etc. (And they're not kidding about the speed - it was great!) Now, however, you are stuck with a dynamically assigned IP. The kicker, though, is that your system IP configuration is stuck with an internal use IP (Mine is 10.20.30.something). This causes all kinds of problems establishing connections from the outside world to your home computer. (Note, this is probably an over-simplification, but you get the idea.) And, from my communications with them, they have no plan to re-establish static IPs for anyone.

    So, if you just want to surf the net fast, DirecPC is great. But, don't plan on being able to do anything remotely serverish.

  • Anyone have an URL I can check?

    Assuming that they're not US only, anyway; if so, I'll disappear now...
  • See DISH network for satelite programming and certain network channels (West/east COast majors)
    Echostar has more bandwidth/satellites/transponders than anyone. THey are also as cheap or cheaper than anyone else.

    I work there and the coolest thing is that they are using Linux as the development platform for some of their new embedded systems.

    Ed
  • can't get networks unless you have an antenna

    Unless you can get your 'local' stations to sign a waver or you are over a certain distance from their transmitters.

    Or... If you know a little secret. If you tell them you will be using your dish on an RV (recreational vehicle) where you will not be able to receive local channels, then you can get it.

  • Sorry, Mr. Taco, but you can't get networks unless you have an antenna. Sometime this winter the courts ruled against the major dish provider (I can't remember who that is; I have cable). They were providing the New York/Chicago/LA feeds of the major networks so people wouldn't have to use antennas. But someone sued and now they can't do that anymore. (I read about this in the Economist sometime in winter). So now they're stuck with subsidizing bunny ears. The article did mention that the great hope for dish providers is that most cable providers won't be ready for digital telivision, so they'll be able to create a box that has dish and HDTV reception in one, which should solve some of the problems.
  • That's only because the ruling doesn't take effect immediately. I should have mentioned that. It said that people in rural areas would be able to keep the feed for a while but that people in cities would have to go off pretty soon.
  • Oh, I stand corrected!
  • Ok you asked for it -
    I'm familiar with Primestar and have lurked for years in the sat news groups. IMHO Primestar had the best idea, lease, don't own, plus 1+ meter dishes. This means that when the hardware is FU'd, they will make it OK - no charge. Also the 1+meter
    dishes mean great signal! Next time it's raining, call up a friend with one of those 18" weenies... Ok, so Primestar is deepsix'd, I would vote for DISH - because, well, they are based on a standard, also from what I've heard, they don't suffer as much from the pixelation caused by overcompression on DSS. I have seen this on Primestar, but only very, very rarley. The worst case was having to trudge out in the snow at 1AM and knock the ice off the bloody thing (they do sell dish warmers...). Unless you're into an enormous amount of testosterone crazed sports and PPV addiction - in that case go with DSS.
    What ever system you get, get a larger dish, 24" at least. You won't be sorry.
    Best of luck,
    Q
  • USSB and Direct TV just merged - as of now, members get one bill and a wider channel spread. DirectTV is far superior to Cablevision (I'm from Long Island, NY) and is much cheaper. I don't have the data connection, but the TV signal is clean and clear.

    The interactive TV guide is also a neat plus.

    I became a Linux convert the day that NT crashed five times on me.
  • And quite frankly, this is bullshit. I'm on the outskirts of town, in a small valley, surrounded by trees. If I use an antenna I can LISTEN to X-Files on Fox, and can't get CBS or NBC for anything. After 4 individual letters of protest per station, I am still unable to receive them via my DSS system.
    The [possibly] good news is, there is a bill that has passed in the House and is pending in the Senate that would allow Network access from major satellite providers again.
    Ah well, at least this whole thing gave me an excuse to get wired up to cable and now I have a nice, speedy cable modem :)
  • could please email me the info on the descrambler. Thanks.
  • :-) Forgot to post my email address: mindrive@emial.com
  • Java? Ugh... Let's put the beat to rest...
  • So I throw a question back at the Slashdot readers, What would you want to see in a Linux based set-top satellite receiver?


    A login prompt, and an account where I could login!

    Seriously, it would be very cool if we had this, as well as the ability to write apps that controled the box somewhat. E.g. you could write a perl (or whatever) script that flipped channels at certain times. Heck, I'd prefer `cron' to the usual way I have to program VCR's!

    Just imagine what it would be like if a developer's toolkit did get published. Look at the Palm (Pilot), and all the apps that people develop for it!
  • Wow, that's great that Dish TV is putting linux in their boxes! My family used to be subscribers until our house burned down, but we'll definitely resubscribe... DISH TV is definitely the way to go, it beats cable by a long shot, and we didn't even have a decent aim at the satellite, so if it rained too hard, we were screwed. Well worth the money.
  • Cetainly not 95% of the population of SlashDot users. Oh, and maybe you should...you know...next time there's a civil war in your backyard, the American's might be dropping bombs on your head...

  • I've had no problems with them, the service is good, the channel line-up is (for me) better than DSS/USSB's. Bought the (JVC branded) receiver at Sears.
    My father-in-law has DSS, and he's had problems with customer service, but then he always seems to have problems. :-)
    (Another reason I went with DiSH rather than Direct is that the latter is owned by Hughes, and I didn't particularly want to reward a company that gave away/sold launch technology to the Chinese.)

    Go with a dual LNB setup (I went with the 4xxx
    series), as that gives the option of adding a second receiver (for another TV) to the same dish.
    (Installing the dish yourself is not hard if you're at all handy, just don't do what I did: spend several hours on the roof on a sunny June day in shorts with no sunscreen. Ouch.)

    I went with the basic ("Top 40") package, about $20/month (plus any pay-per-view movies, usually $2.99 each), because we don't watch much TV. Mostly Sci-Fi, Discovery, Learning Channel, etc. If you're more of a TV watcher you might go with the more inclusive next higher package, and one or more of the movie channel (HBO, Showcase, etc) packages if that's your thing.
    If/when we do get a second receiver I'll probably get another package that includes a dish, to aim the second dish at one of EchoStar's other satellites (mostly international programming).
  • Yes, if you live in a place with a big yard and a decently wide view of the sky, a big dish is a nice-to-have. There may well be better integrated packages these days, but when I looked at it, it meant a lot of separate agreements and bills with different providers on various satellites. But you can get stuff that the small digital dishes don't give you.

    The nice thing about the pizza-size dishes is that they'll mount just about anywhere, and they're the only thing you can use from an apartment or take on the road with you. (My in-laws spend half their time in Ohio and half in Florida, they just take the dish with them. A temporary mount works well enough.)

    The big dishes require a permanent mount and are subject to much higher wind etc. loads, so need a much stronger mount. If you can accomodate that, great. (In my yard it'd be marginal, since there are a lot of high trees around. That's why I went for a roof mount of the small dish. In theory you can roof-mount a big dish, but that requires major structural considerations to keep it from ripping out of the roof in a high wind.)
  • is it possible?

    Sure. Three is a bit trickier than two, but do-able. Depends how much money you're willing to spend :-)

    what would be the best/cheapest service?

    Probably comparable. A base package rate plus a small surchage for each additional receiver (you'll need three).

    what would be the cost/setup(meaning would I need two dishes or what)?

    You can do it with one dish that has a dual LNB (and two cables from the dish to the receivers). Satellite signals come in two polarizations for each wavelength, the LNB needs to be switched to the correct polarization for the channel you want. You need a dual if you want each receiver to be able to watch a different channel.

    The trick is on that third receiver. Normally with a dual LNB/dual reciver setup you just run one cable to each receiver.

    In theory, you could split the two cables and run both to the third receiver, with a (mechanical or electronic) switch to switch that receiver between cables so that you can pick the one that happens to be on the correct polarization for the channel you want. (This assumes you want all three TVs tuned to three different channels simultaneously.)

    In practice, though, it's probably a lot less headache just to get a second dish, going for the low-end with just a single LNB. The package price for a less expensive receiver and single LNB dish isn't much more than for the receiver alone.

    After that if you want to get creative you can point the two dishes at different satellites and have switches at each receiver to choose which satellite it's looking at (bearing in mind that the single-LNB dish will only support one channel at a time).

    If you'll only ever want to watch two of the three TVs simultaneously, you don't need the second dish. You may not even need a third receiver if you wire two TVs to one receiver (with a long video cable, or a a retransmitter). Some of the satellite receivers use a UHF remote as well as IR, so the remote will work through walls.
  • The Sony decoder supports DSS/USSB (DirecTV), not Echostar (DISH). The high end of the line on Echostars' receivers (also by JVC) support the same range of features that the Sony does, such as the UHF remote control. They're also remotely software-upgradeable from the satellite, a nice feature. (For example, a few months back Echostar upgraded the "display information about this channel" feature from an opaque to a transparent background, so you can see the TV signal behind it. Magically appeared one day as the receiver software was remotely updated.)
    The top-of-the line JVC receiver (IIRC) includes a built-in VCR, which is nice, although I find the IR-blaster in my not-quite top end machine works just fine. (This feature means you don't have to program your VCR to record a later program. There's a high-power infrared port on the front of the receiver which, when the time comes for the show you've selected, blasts out the appropriate IR signal to start your VCR recording, and similarly stops it when done. The signal just bounces off the opposite wall of the room into your VCR.) Nice feature. I should use it more, say to tape those early early morning reruns of the old "Lost In Space" TV series... :-)
  • Where can you source these? Respond via email?
  • I have DirecTV and love it. My parents cable company recently went under and I looked at them all for them. They were looking for the most bang for the buck. DirecTV was it. They have it now too and love it.

    If you have the space, however, look at a big dish. Programming is cheeper, more choices, more choices in places to buy your programming (competition is a good thing), and it looks damn impressive ;) If I had the space, I'd go that route.

    Mark
  • DiSH is actually less proprietary than DTV. DTV uses a TOTALLY secret proprietary data stream. DiSH uses DVB/MPEG-II (as someone else pointed out) which is an open standard (encorporating encryption, of course, to prevent stealing the service.)

    As to one equipment manufacturer, ALL DTV receivers are re-branded receivers manufactured by Hughes (the parent company of DTV), with the exception of the Sony's. Sony manufactures their own units, but uses proprietary Hughes chips (which are secret and exclusive to Hughes) to decode the signal.

    OTOH, the Echostar receivers, which are sold under the brand names Echostar, JVC, and Philips/Magnavox, are generic DVB satelite receivers which can be programed to decode any any DVB complient service (E. G. Canada's Express Vu, several Latin American and European services) via reprogramming of their Flash memory and application of the correct provider's smart card. The flash is appropriately programmed for the target provider. They can even be programed, via flash, to output in NTSC, PAL or SECAM, as required by the service they are being used to receive.
  • I'm a DirecTV subscriber, and I would recommend looking into it. However, I have not had any experience with any of the other providers, and so my recommendation may be a bit skewed. As you would expect from a digital satellite system, the picture and sound are excellent, particularly when movies are shown in Dolby Digital 5.1 audio. (Don't skimp on your audio equipment; the up-front investment is worth it.) The pricing is reasonable, depending on what channels you want; you can go anywhere from $12.99/month (I think) for a "minimal" package to $47.99/month for the Total Choice Balls-To-The-Wall package.

    Also keep in mind that DirecTV is merging with USSB, which provides all of the "major" premium channels such as HBO, Showtime, Skinemax, etc. DirecTV currently provides four channels of Starz and eight channels of Encore, along with the Independent Film Channel and a couple of other "premium" networks. If you combine DirecTV with USSB (as I have) you'll have more premium movie channels than you can possibly deal with.

    DirecTV is pretty much the acknowledged leader when it comes to sports. You can get, at your option, several regional sports networks .. but don't think you'll be able to tune to Fox Sports Arizona and watch a Diamondbacks game live .. if you want to do that, you'll have to buy the MLB Extra Innings package. The same thing goes for NFL, NBA, etc. Still, I enjoy watching all the local sports-talk programs, even if I can't watch most of the games as they happen.

    As far as the Big Four networks are concerned, you can pretty much forget receiving them via your dish, unless you can demonstrate that it is impossible for you to receive them with an antenna. (After all, they can't have you watching CBS or NBC and not seeing the local advertisements, can they?) If you want to discontinue your cable service, your best bet is to just pick up an antenna. If the networks in your area broadcast at any reasonable strength, a small pair of "rabbit ears" should be all you really need. This is all that I use, and the quality of the reception rivals the quality of the cable picture! Reception of network TV via antenna is not nearly as antiquated a notion as it seems.

    Finally, another thing I like about DirecTV is the pay-per-view movie channels. Channels 100-199 are all recent movies that have hit the video stores; by pressing a couple of buttons on your remote, you can watch one at your leisure for $2.99, which is what you would pay for a new release at Blockbuster. Once you "buy" a movie, you can watch it for up to twelve hours, so if you get interrupted you can always go back and see parts of it again later. You also get a coupon every month good for $2.50 off a pay-per-view purchase, so if you only watch one movie a month, you get it for $0.49. Not too bad of a deal.

    Anyway, these are just some observations. I'm sure that subscribers of other dish providers can offer some similar ones.

  • In the same boat. (Score:3)

    by Ken Hall ( 40554 ) on Tuesday June 08, 1999 @07:37AM (#1860407)
    A lot of this is covered in other postings, but I'll summarize what I've found out looking into this over the past few weeks:

    1) You probably won't pay any less for programming on satellite than would for cable if you have only one TV and one decoder box. You will probably get more channels.

    2) Dish Network is better for Movies, etc. DirectTV is better for sports. Most of the below applies to Dish Network, but Direct TV has similar deals.

    3) You can get "local" stations (meaning networks and regional broadcast channels) if you live on either coast and don't get good broadcast reception. (I live in a rural area of NJ, in a valley.) You're supposed to have no cable for 90 days to qualify, but in practice they don't follow that very closely. The add-on package costs extra, and (for now) requires a second dish. If you let them install the whole works for $99, they throw in the second dish free.

    4) If you only get 1 receiver, and sign up for the full boat programming package, you get the first receiver and dish "free" (via rebate).

    5) If you have multiple TV's (or VCR) each needs it's own receiver to pick up different channels concurrently. You can get a "dual LNB" dish and hang up to 3 receivers on it. To add more receivers, you need a "matrix switch". Each receiver adds $4.99 to the programming bill, but you get all programming on all receivers. A basic model receiver costs $99. Fancier ones are more.

    I started this because my wife wanted to watch HBO in the bedroom. The cable company told us we'd have to get a second box and pay for HBO a SECOND TIME, a policy I found "objectionable". During my research process, I got a good deal on a big (54") TV that made DSS look even more appealing, but lately I've been having second thoughts because I have kids, multiple TV's, and other complications. I might just stick with the cable and get a DVD player. It depends on how the cable reception looks on the new TV. They're delivering it tomorrow, so I'll find out pretty quick.
  • You're probably referring to DISH Network, in which case your info is out of date. They *almost* had to give up the NY/LA broadcast channels in the beginning of June, but there was an overruling (or act of Congress or something). In either case, I still get New York and LA local channels.

    I don't know about other cities, but you can definitely receive NY/LA stations with the single dish. A second dish (pointed in the opposite direction) gives you some extra PPV channels, Bloomberg (hail Bloomberg) TV, the NASA Channel and a couple crappy religious channels.

    I live near Trenton, NJ which is just about the midpoint between Philadelphia and New York. The Philadelphia signals come in OK over my omnidirectional antenna, but then I don't give a fsck about Philadelphia since all of my business is in New York and Connecticut. I asked the DISH Network rep about getting New York channels (and LA, too for a couple more bucks). She asked me about my ability to receive local signals. I explained that the Philadelphia stations are a little fuzzy and New York is very snowy. BAM! NY/LA channels came through after 5 minutes.

    The thing about local channels is that aside from the news, all of the programs are basically the same around the country. That's why a lot of the local stations have their panties in a bunch, it's because for the first time they're getting competition from other stations that carry the exact same programming. Instead of ABC v NBC v CBS, it's now ABC in city A v ABC in city B.

    Overall I'm very happy with DISH Network. There are three basic packages starting at 19.95/mo. The first gives you the top 40 channels that people watch. For $27.95 you get the top 60 channels + 30 channels of music. For $28.95 you get a package that will soon have about 100 basic channels. Of course, everyone has the ability to order PPV (14 channels of it w/one dish) and premium channels. DISH also features foreign channels (for a fee) in case you're homesick for the motherland.

    The system is fairly easy to navigate since there is an on-screen menu. Interactive data channels are coming soon.
  • Here are my own notes on problems with enabling my account [perl.org], problems with [perl.org] (and benefits of [perl.org]) playlist sharing [perl.org], and extracting cover art [perl.org].
  • Troy Brown was the top offensive player on the Patriots, who won the Super Bowl in 2002. He should have been on the cover instead of Marshall Faulk. He set records for receiving, and had some plays on punt return that propelled them into the Super Bowl. He allowed Brady to open up his passing game.

    And then, in 2002-2003 season, he got injured, and missed a bunch of games, all without being on the cover of Madden! The curse extends even to players who SHOULD have been on the cover! IT IS THAT POWERFUL.

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