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Sony Offers Bloatware Removal Service — For a Fee [Updated]

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Fri Mar 21, 2008 04:11 PM
from the scams-and-other-marketing-ideas dept.
linuxwrangler writes "First Sony packed its laptops with Microsoft Works, Microsoft Office trial version, Corel Paint Shop Pro trial version, WinDVD and more. Now it is offering to remove the bloatware. Of course marketing changed the name from 'removing the crap we stuck you with' to 'Fresh Start' software optimization. And they want you to pay $149.99 to clean up their mess — $49.99 for 'Fresh Start' on top of the required $100.00 Vista Business upgrade. You can get about $25.00 of that cost back if you select all available 'no-software' options which are only available after selecting the $149.99 'upgrade'. Wonder what they would charge to remove Windows completely." Update 11:57 GMT by SM: It seems that massive outrage at Sony's "Fresh Start" program has encouraged them to drop the fee for scrubbing your laptop of bloatware before shipping it your way.
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  • by Zymergy (803632) * on Friday March 21 2008, @04:12PM (#22823822)
    I was assuming that PC Decrapifyer cleaned the plethora of extraneous Sony-specific applications, the list does not list one Sony item: http://www.pcdecrapifier.com/apps [pcdecrapifier.com]
    Still, is it is a very FREE and very Useful tool for new PCs.

    Another link OTFA:
    http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/21/sony-hates-you-offers-50-fresh-start-option-to-build-your-la/ [engadget.com]
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      PC Decrapifier isn't very good. I tried it on a computer with a dozen programs that I would consider fit the bill... it only found two, and could only remove one IIRC. The other one was easily removed using the program's own uninstaller, so it's obvious PCD doesn't even try very hard.
    • by strange dynamics (1219074) on Friday March 21 2008, @05:22PM (#22824536)
      1. Thanks for the link. It's ironic that the link in the summary leads to an ad page. Any time a site shows a full page ad before the article I am trying to read, I immediately go back to try and send the message that I will not read their site if they insist on advertising that way.

      2. On topic: Although I completely disagree with sony's actions here, it makes sense that a computer without all the crap would cost more. A crap filled PC is subsidized by revenue from the crap vendors, a clean PC is not.
      • You can fix a whole lot of that advertising by setting up your hosts file. It works on Windows, Linux, and MacOS. This site is just one of many that will tell you how to do it and get you started with a pretty long list of useless advertisers that you won't have to see any more...

        http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm [mvps.org]

        As an aside, it can also help keep your computer from accidentally visiting sites that install crapware/spyware/adware on your system.

        But the only computer that I have ever bought
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            .....built and loaded with software from the manufacturer is my Mac laptop....

            A nice feature of Macs is that any programs you don't want are easy to delete. Just drag them to the trash. No need for uninstallers. No registry cleaners or other crap removal problems. Why can't Windows be like that?

            Unfortunately even Apple's own applications aren't usually self-contained within their .app icon package like you suggest. If you drag a program like Garageband or iPhoto to the Trash, you're only removing part of the program. For example, the Garageband icon in /Applications is ~86 megabytes, but there are nearly 2 gigabytes of sound loops and such in /Library/Application Support that would be left behind, not to mention individual user preferences and caches in ~/Library.

            In my opinion Windows is actu

      • Re:I wish, I wish (Score:5, Informative)

        by MojoStan (776183) on Friday March 21 2008, @05:01PM (#22824326)

        I wish, I wish I was a fish. And that we could buy computers without an OS if we chose to.
        Sure you can. You can buy Dell n Series computers without an OS installed, but with an obligatory copy of FreeDOS (not preinstalled). You're not really expected to install FreeDOS, but for some reason (maybe legal or contractual) Dell doesn't want to sell PCs without a bundled OS, so they bundle (but don't install) an OS that you're not expected to install. I wouldn't be surprised if other PC makers sold some computers (most likely business models) without an OS.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Y'know, it's not that hard to build your own computer. If you're not shooting for a bottom-of-the-barrel $399-plus-cheese-grater model (in which case, you should be shot) you can generally save money that way, too.

        In this month's MaximumPC, for example, they have step-by-step instructions with pictures for building your own $1500 gaming rig. PDF Version [maximumpc.com] You can spend considerably less if you don't plan on doing any gaming - cheaper video card, slower processor, and the like. And, it comes with any OS

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          If you're not shooting for a bottom-of-the-barrel $399-plus-cheese-grater model (in which case, you should be shot) you can generally save money that way, too.

          You should be shot if you want a cheap computer ? Good grief !

            • Re:I wish, I wish (Score:5, Insightful)

              by Mad Merlin (837387) on Friday March 21 2008, @06:17PM (#22825036) Homepage

              The truth is only the cheapest computers can be bought without an OS.

              Hmm... I just went onto Newegg.com and bought all the parts for a computer, the parts *I* wanted to be used, assembled them, and installed the OS of *my* choice.
              Wasn't difficult at all and didn't get stuck with cheap inferior merchandise.

              Why don't you try the same for a laptop and let us know how it goes?

          • Is there a particular reason you can't grab a copy of the official Windows OEM install disk?
            Or, you know, just sit in the Add/Remove Programs window for a few hours. Some people are just looking for reasons to glorify their fav distro... "God, this Media player crap that comes with windows is just junk! Thank god for linux! (What? What's winamp?)"
  • by gnutoo (1154137) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:13PM (#22823824) Journal

    Why stop at removing "Works" when you could use Ubuntu? Wouldn't Sony then have to give you a rebate for the OS you did not use?

    You would be better off even if you wasted $149 on XP and used your old software. This option does not rule out a nice free software partition. I can't believe anyone will use the "fresh start" service.

  • Geez. forget it. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by OrangeTide (124937) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:13PM (#22823826) Homepage Journal
    Almost seems easier to just buy the Windows OEM version and install from scratch. Can you get a rebate on a Vista license bundled with your laptop that you aren't using like you could on previous versions of Windows?
      • by gnutoo (1154137) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:26PM (#22823980) Journal

        This is why it's a good idea to avoid brand new hardware from unfriendly companies like Sony. If it won't work with PCLinuxOS, Mepis or one of the Ubuntu live CDs, you don't want it. XP won't work either, which leaves you with Vista and hunting for the dozens of programs needed to make Windows useful. You might as well give up. Hardware that's just a year or two older or that's "low power" will perform better under free software than new hardware under Vista and software that does not break XP is going to get harder and harder to find.

      • I thought most manufacturers give you a list of all the drivers you need on their website when you select the model.
        • Most do, but you still have to download the drivers put them on disk, then install them on XP, reboot a couple hundred times to have a working system as Windows install CDs give you almost no drivers by default comparatively to Linux where most everything is supported out-of-the-box.
        • by nogginthenog (582552) on Friday March 21 2008, @05:50PM (#22824792)
          Yes, but it's not much use if you don't have a driver for your network card!
        • by hazem (472289) on Friday March 21 2008, @08:59PM (#22826124) Journal
          I thought most manufacturers give you a list of all the drivers you need on their website when you select the model.

          The problem is, if the company sells the laptop with Vista, then the download drivers are also for... Vista.

          I got a Fujitsu with Vista and "upgraded" to XP. It was a bit of a challenge because the controller chipset wasn't supported with the Windows XP disk I purchased. I manged to get an install going using Nlite and adding the driver controllers I downloaded from HP.

          That was challenging because the drivers came as a floppy image that had to be "burned" to a floppy with the special software. My laptop doesn't have a floppy - and I had to reconnect the floppy to my desktop - and then dig through all my boxes of crap to finally find a floppy to burn it to... just to put it on a USB stick so I could transfer it back to my laptop where I was building a new install disk.

          I managed to get everything working on my laptop except for all of the buttons on the hot keys above the keyboard that would normally launch web browsers and such.

          I'd LOVE to get a rebate on the unused Vista install disk that came with it.
      • It's not that hard (at least with Dell's). The XP disk installs most of the drivers and the one or two you need are easy enough to download from the Dell website. You're actually better off using the standard version of XP/Vista as the OEM version may have a fair amount of bloatware/customization/value-add built-in.
      • Is this the result of collective wisdom of /. moderators?!!

        I'm writing this from Leopard, and my other two machines run Ubuntu but I have installed Windows (98 - XP) on several hundred different configurations, same goes for various Linux distros but that ignorant comment of yours, both about the time it takes to install Windows and how you'll have to track down "every single last driver" is nothing but trolling.

        I haven't installed Vista, so I won't comment on that.
  • by Tuoqui (1091447) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:13PM (#22823828) Journal
    From the charging-you-for-our-mistakes dept.
    • by OrangeTide (124937) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:16PM (#22823876) Homepage Journal
      How much does the option of not killing the family dog cost? I don't think I can afford the please-don't-rape-me option bundled with these products. I'm waiting for the version of a product with viruses loaded onto it to be $50 cheaper, that way you can undercut competitors in advertisements and with customers that buy purely on pricetag. Even though I suspect most customers try to roughly compare pricetag with features to come up with some squish concept of value when they make a purchase decision.
  • Not shocking (Score:3, Interesting)

    by moogied (1175879) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:14PM (#22823836)
    Consider that best buy, circuit city, and every small time PC repair shop on earth offers this exact same service. People already pay hand over fist to have someone else run some basic software, or in Sony's case... run that software once, update the image, and image that option onto your PC instead of the bloated one.
  • by Rinisari (521266) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:14PM (#22823838) Homepage Journal
    Instead of allowing them to charge you for removing Windows, simply don't accept the EULA and call Sony to get your money back. Research it online--there's been a lot of people who have been refunded the Microsoft tax for just a few hours of work.
    • As usual... (Score:5, Informative)

      by IANAAC (692242) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:20PM (#22823932)
      Slashdot's late to the party.

      Gizmodo is reporting that Sony have already stated that starting tomorrow the service will be free.

      • So wait, Sony will still be putting crapware on your new computer, but you can send it back and wait another 6-8 weeks and you can have a non-crapified computer? How does that work!?!
    • ...this isn't about removing windows. It's about removing add-on software. Know how most PCs come with anti-virus, anti-spyware, google earth, google toolbar, etc. pre-installed? That's the type of thing it might remove (I don't know the exact list of what it does remove). It's got nothing to do with removing the O/S.

      On top of that - why not go the easy route and get a machine that doesn't run Windows in the first place - either O/S-less or with a Linux or BSD distribution pre-installed instead?
  • "To uninstall a program, select it from the list and click "Uninstall""

    Not really that big a deal... I guess for $150 VS a few clicks and reboots, I'd rather keep the cash. (I have a new Vaio and already did this) Yes, I know it is only $50 but I have no need for Vista Business either.

    And if you are in a business buying a large volume of laptops (presumably the intended market?), wouldn't it still be more efficient to pay your IT guy to do the same?

    • If you have a large volume of identical PCs, it would be easier just to reimage the entire thing. Or create a script to do the same.
    • If you want a large number of PC's Sony is NOT who you choose. Many of their laptops have drivers installed in the OEM setup disk that flat out aren't available any other way. Most shops that have large numbers of machines use some sort of imaging setup and that doesn't work with an OEM edition of Windows, only with volume licensed editions.
    • To uninstall a program, select it from the list and click "Uninstall"
      I would like to make two points:
      1) Sony's own load images are to blame for much of the pre-installed adware and unnecessary bloat, why should there even be a fee in the first place to NOT install software?
      2) Often uninstall in Windows isn't as easy as clicking "uninstall" as you suggest. Because of the nifty Windows inventions such as the registry and protected system folders, uninstall is no longer what it used to be. Many times, programs leave traces in the registry which never come out and can still slow the computer, and even cause crashes down the road. If you never load undesired programs in the first place, you avoid this added risk altogether.

      I know not all programs take a merciless rampage through the registry and some uninstallers may be programmed without error, but lets face it, if any one programmer on a project left one registry entry undocumented, one system folder modification unchecked, one startup program off the uninstaller, you have a risk...
      now multiply that by the number of programmers on the projects...
      now by the amount of bloat you have on your system before it's removed...
      It may not be worth $50 to you or me even after all of that because we can easily reinstall, but to the average consumer it can be a lot more cumbersome.
  • Headline INCORRECT (Score:5, Informative)

    by Buran (150348) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:17PM (#22823892)
    Sony will NOT be charging a fee.

    Sony Drops $50 Fee to Remove Useless Bloatware [wired.com]

    Oops.

    Next time, do your research to make sure you have the latest info, mmmkay?
  • is in order.

    Just keep pounding on these people until they submit and start acting responsible.
  • by bwy (726112) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:19PM (#22823914)
    This is one of the most refreshing things about a Mac- you don't have to reload the OS as soon as you buy the machine. I would NEVER use a preload version of XP or Vista. Never, ever, ever.

    I haven't seen what Ubuntu preloads look like from the likes of Dell. Hopefully, it is nice and clean and about what I would do if I installed it myself and got all the drivers working.
    • by Animaether (411575) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:29PM (#22824018) Journal
      if you were a fan boy, you'd pretty much be a fan of "not that I have much choice in the matter".

      Yes, it's wonderful that Apple doesn't bloat up the default installations of Mac OS. Then again, it's not Microsoft that's bloating up the default installations either - it's the computer manufacturers. Apple is in the sweet position to be both the OS developer and the manufacturer + distributor of their computers.

      On the other hand, you -can- get a 'Windows PC' that doesn't have any bloat. You can get one that has internet-specific bloat. You can get one that has games-specific bloat (popular games server management stuff pre-installed), etc. You get a choice.
      Yes, I know, by far the majority of those choices will have -some- manner of bloat. But, again, you do get a choice.

      Personally I don't see why anybody would actively -choose- any sort of bloat, but maybe that's just because the appropriate bloat hasn't been presented to me yet. Let's say there was a 3D graphics computer that with pre-installed Blender, The Gimp / Cinepaint, InkScape, etc. I wouldn't particularly complain about that 'bloat'.
    • When I bought my 12" Powerbook G4 a while back, it came with various random stuff, like trial versions of Office, loaded onto it. Granted, it's not as bad as some of the Windows preloads get, but it's still far from a "clean" system. On the other hand, the Mac Pro I just bought came very clean, and I only reinstalled Leopard because I wanted it on a different hard drive.
    • by p0tat03 (985078) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:44PM (#22824158)

      Hate to rain on your party as a fellow Mac user... But that's not quite true. Macs come out of the box with a junkload of pre-load software. Granted, the quality of them far exceed the kind of apps you see bundled on Dells and Sonys, but nonetheless, MacOS X isn't quite so clean out of the box.

      Oh, and a clean install of OS X takes FAR less room than what you would see on a Mac out of the box. I've done it before. Things like Garage Band take up a huge amount of space, and while I do like the app, most users will probably never run it.

  • Dell has this option (Score:4, Informative)

    by KevMar (471257) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:24PM (#22823964) Homepage Journal
    I saw that Dell has a small business line of PC's that they claim to ship free of all that bloatware. I dont remember the name of that product line. But I liked the fact that you didnt have to select it as an option, it was a standard feature.

    The first thing I do to every new computer I get (or my family) is to reformat and reinstall windows.
    • by MojoStan (776183) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:45PM (#22824168)

      I saw that Dell has a small business line of PC's that they claim to ship free of all that bloatware. I dont remember the name of that product line. But I liked the fact that you didnt have to select it as an option, it was a standard feature.
      It's their super-cheap Vostro line of desktops and laptops for small business, which were introduced Summer 2007. Vostro hardware is nearly identical to the new Inspiron desktops and laptops introduced at the same time, but are "business black" instead of silver.

      The press release for the Vostro introduction [dell.com] described the "no trialware" feature:

      • "The Vostro branded products feature no trialware and simple to use tools that address top-of-mind problems such as data back-up, PC performance and health, and specialized networking support for customers without dedicated IT staff."
      Of course, some buyers probably think Dell's "support tools" is "bloatware," but I guess that's what you have to accept when you buy a PC with support and warranty.
  • ....but I'm holding out for the pay-to-throw-out option.

    We can do better!
  • by Man On Pink Corner (1089867) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:27PM (#22824002)
    "If the answer involves giving money to Sony, you must have asked a really silly question."
  • by klubar (591384) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:37PM (#22824100) Homepage
    In some ways, Sony is at least being (partially) honest in that they explicitly price the removal. Other vendors hide the cost by wrapping bloatware free versions into specific models (for example, Dell's Vostos and Optiplex) don't have much bloatware, but are not exactly identical to an equivalent model.

    Does anyone know how much the vendors actually get for installing various trial versions?

    Also, there is some danger of one man's bloatware being another's convenience. For example is pre-installing Adobe Acrobat and Flash bloatware or value? How about Google toolbar? Firefox? And on down the line... iTunes?

    And, Macs aren't exactly bloatware free. Quicktime is a trial version with a nag screen to upgrade. Macs come with trial versions of Office (how much does Microsoft pay for that) and Omni outliner.
  • Why pay Sony when you can get Crap Cleaner [ccleaner.com] for free? Uninstall the junk you don't want via add/remove programs and then use Crap Cleaner to clean up anything that the uninstallers leave behind.
  • by cybereal (621599) on Friday March 21 2008, @04:39PM (#22824126) Homepage
    I have a Sony Vaio subnotebook with all kinds of crap installed on top of WinXP Pro. But here's the deal. You can make a CD version of their restore kit, though. And when you restore that way, they let you choose to ignore the little "restore partition" that wastes a lot of space so that's awesome.

    But the best part is, the "crapware" doesn't go on until the OS is all restored. It's clean until you finally boot back up and it starts asking for CD's again. At least in the version I have, you can cancel the process there. You'll have to get your own drivers from the download site, which isn't hard, they have a nice streamline downloader that produces a report and everything.

    So at least with my Vaio T-340P I had no troubles working around the (realistically minor compared to some machines) bloatware.
  • When my shop sells any new system, my techs go over the machine before it leaves the building - the first thing I have them do is remove the crapware (including the Norton trial most come with), load Avast if they dont have their own AV, install Spybot, windows updates. The idea is that the user can take full advantage of the system from the moment it leaves the store.

    • by KillerBob (217953) on Friday March 21 2008, @05:40PM (#22824688)

      When my shop sells any new system, my techs go over the machine before it leaves the building - the first thing I have them do is remove the crapware (including the Norton trial most come with), load Avast if they dont have their own AV, install Spybot, windows updates. The idea is that the user can take full advantage of the system from the moment it leaves the store.


      Y'know, some users would consider your choice of software to be little difference. Your choice in software is perhaps a little more benevolent, but you're still making software choices for your user, and installing stuff they didn't ask for. Plus... from your wording, I'm assuming that you're a reseller, and that systems from Lenovo/HP/Dell/Whatever are leaving your building? What happens when your customers call up Dell tech. support and expect help with Avast? After all, it came with their computer....

      You may also want to check on the EULA conditions for Avast, because I *think* what you're doing is against the license. It's certainly against the AVG license.
  • by dave562 (969951) on Friday March 21 2008, @05:21PM (#22824532) Journal
    This is a good article because now we have some idea about what all of that bloatware is worth to PC manufacturers. $150.