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Sun Offers Reward Program to Boost Open Source Effort

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Wed Dec 05, 2007 01:47 PM
from the taking-care-of-the-grunts dept.
e5rebel writes to tell us that Sun Microsystems has announced they they will be creating a reward program in order to compensate open source programmers for their work in a hope to boost open source efforts. The program will involve communities like OpenSolaris, GlassFish, OpenJDK, OpenSPARC, NetBeans, and OpenOffice.org according to Simon Phipps, Sun's open source officer. "Phipps' post comes some months after Rich Green, Sun's executive vice president of software, voiced skepticism over the open-source status quo, where developers who contribute to various efforts go uncompensated while corporations are enriched. 'It really is a worrisome social artifact,' Green said at the time. 'I think in the long term that this is a worrisome scenario [and] not sustainable. We are looking very closely at compensating people for the work that they do.'"
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  • by bn0p (656911) on Wednesday December 05 2007, @02:00PM (#21588323)
    On reading the article the main thing that jumped out at me was the assumption that Sun, or at least Simon Phipps, believes that most open source programming will be done in India.

    Why would we outsource open source software? Is there really that little interest in FOSS in the US, EU, etc.?


    Never let reality temper imagination
    • I think his point is that there's a huge developer community there that right now contributes almost nothing to open-source. It seems plausible enough that if you created a direct route for developers to get paid (instead of "You can make money providing support!") an enormous amount of free software could be generated there.
      • This is unlikely, near term.

        The developer community in India is not that large; computer ownership is 14 per 1000 people, which is barely over 1%, compared to them having ~5.2% of the population with cable television [Source: http://blogs.officialexportguide.com/country/ [officialexportguide.com]].

        Add to this the fact that most of the ownership of these machines is centralized, either in large corporations as business equipment, software shops where the employee only has access to work on what the software shop wants worked on, or c
    • On reading the article the main thing that jumped out at me was the assumption that Sun, or at least Simon Phipps, believes that most open source programming will be done in India.
      Shit! First they outsource our paying jobs to India, now they want to outsource our hobbies there, too?!

      Does anyone know where can I contribute money to help revitalize Pakistan's nuclear weapons program?
    • I'd guess the economic rewards would be much more attractive to an Indian, than to someone from Western Europe or North America. Most of us are either working for a good salary on free software as part of our full time job, or have another full time job, and are working on free software our spare time for the love of it.

      In either case, an economic reward for working on free software won't change much, as we are already fully "compensated", or otherwise economically secure and using free software as a hobby
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      Why would we outsource open source software? Is there really that little interest in FOSS in the US, EU, etc.?

      My guess is this has nothing to do with generosity towards open sources at all. It probably has more to do with issues like OpenDS where owners of the project more or less got strong armed/fired. Sounds like developers are not happy at Sun and perhaps this is a subtle message to those developers at Sun.

      A large still falling tech company I used to work for in 1995 brought in "cheap" Indian pr

    • Maybe to be "out opened"?
    • Well... first and foremost I do not think that it is possible to "outsorce" Open source software. By its very nature open source allows people from every place (in the planet!) to contribute to the code.

      Now, what I would expect is that, because of the current economy, developers in India would demand lower fares to do the same amount of work as developers in the US or UK. Because of this, I think that companies wanting to do such kinds of offers (to give money to open source products) could do it via coding [rentacoder.com]
    • by DragonWriter (970822) on Wednesday December 05 2007, @04:07PM (#21589907)

      On reading the article the main thing that jumped out at me was the assumption that Sun, or at least Simon Phipps, believes that most open source programming will be done in India.


      No, he states that he believs that most of the expansion in open source programming will be in India. Considering raw population numbers and development trends, that's probably not an entirely unreasonable assumption.

      The US and Western Europe, for instance, probably have as a high a percentage of their population programming as they are going to have, and the split between open source and proprietary is probably pretty stable (not that it won't change over time, but there is a lot of inertia built in).

      India has quite a lot of people, is seeing lots of growth in the tech field, and is a lot more fluid in how the structure of its tech industry will shake out. So, yeah, lots of growth in open source development is likely there, and spending any given amount of money to encourage that growth is likely to have a lot more effect there, not only because of the greater practical value of the same amount of money in India, but because a lot less of India's programmers or potential new programmers are entrenched in an existing system and unlikely to change their behavior without a major incentive.
    • "Why would we outsource open source software? Is there really that little interest in FOSS in the US, EU, etc.? "

      I think it's a matter of best bang for your open source buck. It's pretty obvious. People have a finite amount of time and some proponents of open source forget that whenever you spend time, that is time you're not spending doing something else like working for $, etc. So I think it's a very astute observation on the part of Sun's management and also a very intelligent move in understanding th
      • Someone has a case of the "Mondays" :-)

        Last time I checked there are freaking TONS of people literally dieing to get in to this country. So many that the U.S. is building a wall to stem the flow of illegal immigration. Yes those are generally lower educated people but there are still far more "high tech" people wanting in the county than H1Bs.

        You seriously want people to believe that the U.S. is run by a bunch of "Religious Fanatics"? The same country that based its laws off of Christian values and relig
        • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

          Last time I checked there are freaking TONS of people literally dieing to get in to this country. So many that the U.S. is building a wall to stem the flow of illegal immigration. Yes those are generally lower educated people but there are still far more "high tech" people wanting in the county than H1Bs.

          That's true. That's yet another problem with the US... they were dependent on the uneducated but industrious illegals to harvest food, and now that they're locking things down and throwing immigrants i
        • All in all the U.S. isn't looking too bad. Granted our taxes are ridiculous, but a hard working person in poverty can still become one of the richest people on earth and that can't be said for to many countries.

          To the limits of statistical significance, this never happens. Pretending that it does is part of the great American myth.

          The United States is not the greatest nation on earth, except when it comes to rich people making tons of money bombing far away poor people - we're definitely the greatest at t

          • I wouldn't have put it in such an inflammatory way, but yeah.

            Put another way, the U.S. is a good country., but that doesn't mean it can't be better. Instead of resting on our laurels---instead of being proud of ourselves for not being worse---we should be looking at the things that are wrong and trying to improve upon them, constantly setting the bar higher and higher. Otherwise, someday we'll look back and compare ourselves with the world and find ourselves at the bottom.

  • by Per Abrahamsen (1397) on Wednesday December 05 2007, @02:04PM (#21588375) Homepage
    The majority of contribution to the listed software projects already comes from people who get their salary from Sun.

    I guess Sun is trying to find a way where they can pay people to work on their projects without directly being employed by Sun. The advantage for Sun would be that they wouldn't have to fire people or pay health or other benefits, and it might be easier to recruit people. The advantage for the programmers would be flexibility in how many hour they want to put into a particular project. And, if Sun doesn't prevent it, that they might be paid twice for doing the same job. Once by their main employer, who pay them to implement a specific feature they need in a project, and once by Sun for doing the same thing.
  • by Hognoxious (631665) on Wednesday December 05 2007, @02:05PM (#21588405) Homepage Journal
    Perverse though it might sound, it's plausible that overall satisfaction & productivity might be lower if some are getting paid compared to when none are.
    • It's not perverse, it's exactly what happened when someone proposed to pay the 2 Debian Release Managers to get Etch out in time.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      That happened in Debian when they tried to pay some people in an effort to try to get Debian into a state good enough for release. It made other jealous and they slowed down.
  • ....they earn money from conferences and such and then turn that into grants [rubycentral.org] and community hardware [blogs.com]. Good times.

    And yup, the grant PDF file is missing, I've emailed them about it.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    for the work that they do at a rate way, way below a Western engineer's salary.

    On the one hand, it's the right thing to do. On the other, I will be shocked if it is a living wage for a developer living in the EU/US.
  • good pr (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mytrip (940886) on Wednesday December 05 2007, @02:13PM (#21588527) Homepage Journal
    I think this is a good idea. Google has done well in becoming a favorite with web developers because it helped them make money off their websites. IBM increased revenues by supporting open source because they can sell their stuff as being oss friendly. People are going to be more likely to make their software sun/solaris/java friendly.

    This is a sharp turnaround from when all unix variants competed with each other.
  • Great news! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Bearhouse (1034238) on Wednesday December 05 2007, @02:15PM (#21588555)
    Can they start on the divers, please?

    Mind you, can't see Sun paying for people to write drivers for other people hardware...shame.
    • Can they start on the divers, please?
      There are open source divers?! Is Linux water resistant to 300 meters?
      • Of course it is! Everybody knows Penguins can go down to 1800Ft!

        "Dives of the large Emperor Penguin have been recorded which reach a depth of 565 m (1870 ft) and last up to 22 minutes."
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penguins [wikipedia.org]

        Oh, before somebody writes in that "we'd have good drivers if OEMs would only release their binaries", it (mainly) was a joke, guys...
  • by davecb (6526) * on Wednesday December 05 2007, @02:21PM (#21588639) Homepage Journal

    There are a lot of tasks that I'll do for a paying employer, that I dislike enough to avoid when I'm doing development Pro Bono.

    An honorarium might make it palatable to do really really boring stuff (;-))

    --dave

  • I'm in. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TheDarkener (198348) on Wednesday December 05 2007, @03:50PM (#21589695)
    Even though I am a technical support/consulting micro-business (READ: one man), I am incredibly motivated by the nature of open source. I'm motivated enough to make it my #1 priority for my business, to bring it to more and more people.

    I'm currently undergoing a major project (for me, anyway) involving LTSP in education, and I would *gladly* give some of my profit back, especially for bug fixing specific issues that I run into, as well as general profit-sharing with the people who work on LTSP. I am making money off of open source, and I feel it only honest and right to share it with those who have worked so hard to make it what it is today.

    Sun FTW!
    • by ShieldW0lf (601553) on Wednesday December 05 2007, @01:57PM (#21588271) Journal
      The answer, of course, is that corporations should not be permitted to make a profit. That was the intention behind establishing corporations in the first place, that they be a limited liability group that makes no profit and whose sole justification for existence is that they perform a public good.
      • Re:Please don't (Score:4, Insightful)

        by langelgjm (860756) on Wednesday December 05 2007, @02:03PM (#21588371) Journal
        I got an e-mail from Sun the other day offering to send me Solaris on DVD, and if I activate it within 45 days, they'll also send me some gift certificates for various restaurants. I think it's funny that they're kind of bribing people into trying Solaris.
        • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward
          I can see it now.

          Little bags of green shrinkwrapped to dvd's with slogans such as "Sun. Don't you want to get nicely toasted?" or "Sparc it up!"
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          I got an e-mail from Sun the other day offering to send me Solaris on DVD, and if I activate it within 45 days, they'll also send me some gift certificates for various restaurants. I think it's funny that they're kind of bribing people into trying Solaris.

          I got the same thing yesterday. They noted that i'd downloaded part of the install, and didnt complete it... (it was over a Gig). Anyway, they promised $50 in restaurant vouchers if I completed the download and did the install. I finished the download

        • I think it's interesting that I "pre-ordered" thier freebie Solaris months before it came out and I never got mine...
    • Thank you, but please don't poison what is being done by good will with your money.
      Speak for yourself!

      Please pay me,

      --an open source author.
      • You're both right. People need to make a living - being a philanthropist pays badly by definition. On the other hand, the people who pay are the people who set your agenda - and you are essentially working for the boss. If the open part is the only thing you're interested in, that is ok. Me, however, have some other motivations. One of them is the ability to set my agenda - as an individual or as a group - based on technical merits and such, not based on the agenda by big corporations and stock holders.

        Th
        • The only way you can fully follow your own agenda is to work by yourself or be dictating leader. Note that the license you use is not an issue. Anyone who has looked at the rules for contributing to an open source project can see that they'll be following somebody else's agenda.
        • Re:Please don't (Score:5, Insightful)

          by DragonWriter (970822) on Wednesday December 05 2007, @04:01PM (#21589823)

          On the other hand, the people who pay are the people who set your agenda - and you are essentially working for the boss.


          The fact that someone is offering money for OSS development doesn't really take anything away from the people that have their own strong interests that no one is offering money for. It might even broaden the community of people willing to work on OSS without pay, since there'll be a limited number of paid gigs available, and the best way to qualify yourself for them is to get intimately familiar with the software for which they are offered -- and the best way to do that is to actually work on it.

          The problem is when Sun etc. start paying, the pool of available programmers decreases for other projects


          This presumes that the pool of programmers who will work on OSS is fixed, so that whoever takes the pay is coming out of the pool of people who would otherwise do it for free. But making money available means that you are more likely to pull people who otherwise wouldn't work on OSS into the OSS development world.

          Plus, a whole lot of OSS development is done for pay now, by paid employees of firms like Sun, IBM, etc. Heck, offering bounties for particular features from the community isn't new, either.

          If I were Microsoft or Google (summer of code), this sounds like a good strategy... just hand out some cash to the communities which don't threaten you in any way, grow them, and thus minimize the communities which might threaten you.


          How does this work? Getting paid to work on a feature in, say, OpenJDK doesn't make you less capable of turning around and implementing an open source project (for free or paid for by a competitor) that might challenge Sun's Java.

          If anything, it makes you more capable of doing that, if you were inclined to do so.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      I'm not sure if I'd call it poison. Those projects look like things which help with the livelyhood and profitability of Sun Microsystems.

      If Sun wants to give some compensation to the developers that have helped them make money, and the developers don't mind accepting, what's wrong with it? It is certainly fair.
    • by FredDC (1048502) on Wednesday December 05 2007, @01:59PM (#21588307)

      one who is forced to post AC lest my employer learn of my hobby
      Too late, we all know you've been taking ballet lessons after hours!
      • I can't say for sure that there hasn't always some small amount of free software around, but it wasn't common in the early days for the computer industry to provide source code to paying customers and certainly it wasn't provided to anybody who was interested.

        I have no doubt that a 1983 level of effort in open source is quite sustainable, the question is whether a level of effort necessary to continue open source's market share is sustainable.
        • If you go back before 1983 you'll see source used to be open by default. The GNU was originally more a *reactionary* movement (to source closing), not so much a *revolutionary* movement. Lets go back to the days where all commercial software was delivered as source code to be compiled at the machine it is delivered to! Hehehe. No, seriously. At least make the code available.
      • They are worried about the long term success of open source software that Sun controls, not open source in general.
    • Re:I don't get it. (Score:5, Informative)

      by EvilRyry (1025309) on Wednesday December 05 2007, @02:01PM (#21588345) Journal
      It's an investment in their future. It will hopefully attract new developers, improve their software and get some new ideas in the mix.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      How does this increase Sun's revenues?


      It improves the quality and attractiveness of software for which they sell professional support, services, etc.
      • Sun is doing it right in my book. I've been very impressed with their work lately; OpenSolaris, ZFS, Project Blackbox, Java (for awhile). I'm not a fanboy yet, but I have been recommending to all the PHBs in IT that we consider investing more in Sun's products. We're about done buying SPARCs but their other products can really benefit us.
    • Re:I don't get it. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by fm6 (162816) on Wednesday December 05 2007, @02:23PM (#21588659) Homepage Journal
      By selling technology based on these open-source products. OpenSolaris is particularly important in this respect, because Sun is still primarily a hardware vendor, and the more features Solaris has, the more sellable are Solaris-based systems. Also, like all high-end hardware vendors, Sun is becoming more and more a service provider and system integrator. The better the software is, the easier it is to sell these services. The fact that anybody can use the software without paying for it is actually a plus, because it makes the software a de facto standard.

      Believe it or not, the entire Open Source industry is based on this logic. Companies spend big bucks creating or extending OS software. Usually they just hire programmers to do it, but offering prizes to eager volunteers is better publicity, and much cheaper.
      • That's pretty much what Scott McNealy (Chairman of Sun) said at a recent talk I attended Imperial College (London, UK). He emphasised (a lot!) Sun's provision of computing power (the Sun Grid), "the network is the computer" and the benefits of open source software.

        Most of all he emphasised the price (£0!) of all the software we (the students) could download for free from Sun, like OpenSolaris etc, etc. I thought this was strange -- every PC here already runs Linux (about half are dual boot with Wind
    • Amusingly enough Microsoft has answered this question. In the leaked "Halloween documents" there was a number of suggested ways Sun and IBM could make money from open source. I quote:

      There are 4 primary business models we have identified for Open Source Software.

      1. Secondary Services - The vendor / developer of OSS makes their money on service contracts, customer integration, etc.

      2. Loss Leader for Market Entry -- The vendor / developer of OSS uses OSS's process advantages (in particular credibility) as a l

    • Glibly... if OSS dies, Microsoft wins it all.

      (Let's pretend Apple doesn't exist so I can save some keystrokes here.)

      Sun wants to encourage continued improvements in the quality and versatility of what people can get without paying MS. This way, people can continue to buy non-Windows computers, Java continues being relevant, and MS works harder to produce (or at least to tollerate) useful innovations because they have credible competition to keep them honest.
    • Additionally, hopefully the incentives/compensation will encourage the RIGHT kind of contribution to an OSS project.
    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      From TFA: "I'm announcing it in India because that's where I expect the greatest open-source community growth to come from in the near future. ... If we can play a part in catalyzing the emergence of India as a key international open source power-house, the effect on the software industry will be huge."

      Great, now open source software will go downhill due to bad programming and bad UIs :cry:

      Don't worry, we'll still have fast & reliable tech-support... oh wait.