Slashdot Log In
Microsoft Moves in on the Graphics Market
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu Aug 09, 2007 01:53 PM
from the good-visuals-lucrative-software dept.
from the good-visuals-lucrative-software dept.
Ian Lamont writes "Microsoft has quietly been building up graphics-related R&D, reports Computerworld, noting that Microsoft employees will be presenting one out of every eight papers at SIGGRAPH 2007. And it's not a fluke — other recent Microsoft graphics-related developments include Photosynth, which has been discussed on Slashdot several times, as well as the Silverlight/Expression Studio graphics suite, which will compete with Adobe's Flash/Illustrator/Lightroom/Dreamweaver offerings. At SIGGRAPH, Microsoft will supposedly have demos of some new software including image deblurring tools and Soft Scissors, which 'solves the vexing problem of how to cut and paste an image from one background to another if the image's edges — hair blowing in the wind, blades of grass — are very complex.' Microsoft's competitors aren't sitting down. Adobe's CEO, calling Microsoft a '$50 billion monopolist,' has questioned whether Silverlight will be compatible with non-Windows operating systems, and Google has also been building up its own graphics-related software products, such as the 3D modeling tool SketchUp, and Google Earth."
Related Stories
[+]
Technology: Photosynth Demo 204 comments
A couple of days ago Microsoft labs released a demo of their new Photosynth software on the web. Photosynth allows the aggregation of social picture networks (a la Flickr) into a completed image in addition to allowing a level of depth to image browsing previously unavailable. There is also a very impressive video of the demo available.
[+]
Science: Microsoft, NASA Allow For 3D Shuttle View 84 comments
C|Net reports that a 3D software version of the space shuttle Endeavor is in the works, thanks to a collaboration project between Microsoft and NASA. The Photosynth viewer will allow fans of the space program an unprecedented level of detail in examining the shuttle and its surrounds at the Kennedy Space Center. ""It's much like a 3D video game--people can explore, walk around or fly around the shuttle," said Adam Sheppard, group product manager for Microsoft Live Labs, which developed the viewer. NASA said that the project could lead to more initiatives with the software giant. Chris Kemp, director of strategic business development at NASA's Ames Research Center, said that, for example, NASA could use the Photosynth technology on future space missions for activities such as inspecting the International Space Station and viewing landing sites on the moon."
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Microsoft might be a monopolist... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
What? You actually pay for your Adobe program(s)?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Unacceptable - 64-bit is solidly here now, even my non-technical mom, and my son's daycare provider, both have 64-bit machines. (Albeit with 32 bit XP on them)
Much as I dislike a lot of stuff about Microsoft, I'm sold on Silverlight. Adobe's apparently ignoring the evolution of their products. I am very sick of getting "Cli
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Really, I don't see them moving to 64-bit until they actually have reason to. Either MS forces the issue (by abandoning 32-bit) or memory requirements force the issue.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
And, FWIW, Dreamweaver isn't good either, it's just the best of a bad bunch.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't see anyone losing if there's two professional-quality graphics applications competing with each other. Except possibly Adobe's share price.
Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... (Score:5, Insightful)
How about professional graphic artists and other who have to exchange files between the two suites all the time? I'm pretty sure they'll lose:
-Money. They'll have to buy both suites.
-Money. They'll have to keep two platforms and three binaries around if they're a Mac shop, and they'll have to have someone manage all of it.
-Productivity. Even if interoperable somehow, converting from one tool/platform to another rarely goes smoothly.
-Time. It'll all take longer.
Adobe does a great job with it's tools. I'd love to see someone develop something from the ground up that does most of what Photoshop or (insert your favoite Adobe tool here) using the same file formats Adobe currently uses.
Microsoft, however, is known for mediocre approaches using mediocre tools. I'm not eager to see what they plan to do using new file formats and new approaches. I'll be the first to admit it i I'm wrong, but all I see happenening is a repeat of the desktop publishing market in the early-to-mid 90s: lots of different software, lots of delays, and lots of clueless newbies who think that because it says "Microsoft", it's automagically an accepted standard.
Parent
Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... (Score:5, Insightful)
Will this stuff run on a Mac? Where the vast majority of creative work is done? Of course not.... except through Boot Camp or Paralells. They're starting off handicapped from the get-go. This whole suite of apps and delivery methods is still born. They are only trying to make some cash and that is not a good motivating factor for making software. Having a good idea that meets the needs of your customers and then building the tool for them and pricing it accordingly to make a profit is the far better approach.
Parent
Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... (Score:4, Insightful)
When most of the creative types out there are using Macs and Adobe software, M$ doesn't have the same leverage... they don't don't have Windows to tip things in their favor and gain the dominance they want.
When M$ wants into the niche markets, they always have a hard time. When they want to get into a field that every average user is in, they just make it free in Windows and BANG! Instant market domination.
They're getting their asses handed to them in the video game console war... they're a non-entry in the portable entertainment device arena and they're struggling in search services.
They're not invincible and in the niche markets, where people care about quality. They really really struggle because they a) don't care about those customers and b) just don't understand them. Making a tool cheap or even free isn't going to make people flock to it. If that were the case we'd all be singing the praises of GIMP on Linux and have no clue what Photoshop is.
People who need the tools and a high standard of reliability will flock to the tools that provide that. Adobe is a company that provides tools of that caliber.... and they are worth every penny! Microsoft doesn't give a rats ass about quality, all they care about is market share and income streams... if they had their way, they'd give up software altogether and find a way to have congress force us to pay them money for no reason.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Before Microsoft bought iView it was a much better photo management app than Lightroom. The only thing better about Adobe's product was its UI and integration with Photoshop. I don't know what changes MS has made but
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe 5% of users use 90% of the features in PS. It's serious overkill for most graphical needs except high end skilled professional work. And it's ludicrously expensive for anyone elses needs.
I do lots of graphical work in my job, lots of minor editing and image creation, gui element creation, that kind of thing. Know what? Paint.net has all of the tools from PS that I'd ever need for my requirements, and it's free. (As well as
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I went to one day of Microsoft's Pro Photo Summit last month and I get the impression they are quite serious about th
Re:Microsoft might be a monopolist... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Obsolescence and the Mac Platform (Score:3, Interesting)
On an iMac the monitor is disposable (unless I am missing something).
Yah, you are missing the used computer market. Mac users who bother to upgrade sell their computers for a premium, the used prices are inflated so it works well to buy new, cheaper than upgrading components and you get the warranty.
Why? because macs obsolete a bit slower. I have a 7 year old iBook G3 that still gets used for capturing video and sorting clips in the field; the equivalent toshiba with its crappy case and expensive add-ons is already disposed of. A 4-year old machine will run OS X 10.4 fine
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Multiplatform Flash? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
I have to agree. (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't bitch about how the bad monopoly is being mean to you when you aren't doing anything much to help the nascent competition.
Paying one programmer to port and support your apps on other platforms does more than all the public whining about how Microsoft is being mean.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
They should stop complaining about MS monopoly when they are one of the major contributing factors towards preventing people moving away from MS products. Even Mac users are treated as second cla
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Up Up Down Down Left Left Right Right B A Start? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Up Up Down Down Left Left Right Right B A Start (Score:2)
Google Earth is a very useful tool for architects when used with SketchUp. The $400/year license for the Pro version lets you save higher quality images and gives you the right to use them in presentations and renderings.
Compatibility... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Adobe's CEO ... has questioned whether Silverlight will be compatible with non-Windows operating systems"
Because I've neeever had problems with Flash on my Linux machine...
cross platform oncre and for all time (Score:3, Insightful)
Silverlight has been cross-platform since launch. The Adobe CEO questioned whether this would persist. Microsoft didn't invest on porting a subset of the
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:cross platform oncre and for all time (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Mod parent up (Score:5, Insightful)
This is one of the reasons I think Mono is a bad idea. All Microsoft has to do is be friendly to Mono, until everyone drops their guard and decides it's okay to develop in dotNET. Then, all they need to do is start enforcing their patents, and it's all over...
Parent
Re:Mod parent up (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Soft Scissors Research Paper & Movie (Score:5, Informative)
http://vis.berkeley.edu/papers/softscissors/ [berkeley.edu]
Re: (Score:2)
Correct me if I'm wrong (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Correct me if I'm wrong (Score:5, Informative)
MS also has put a lot of money in research in the area of Graphics, from photo recognition to camera input device concepts, etc.
There is also the entire XBox division which has now spent years understanding graphics, rendering, and has even been instrumental in shaping the design of GPUs in NVidia and ATI cards.
XBox technology is also at the heart of the new Vista graphics subsystem. Adding features that make up DX10 and WDDM, all the way from unified Shaders to GPU RAM virtualization to OS level GPU pre-emption and physics/math support on GPUs through a standard API.
Parent
Questions Linux Support? (Score:3, Interesting)
Microsoft Nurtures Linux Silverlight Port
http://www.sdtimes.com/article/LatestNews-2007080
I have more faith in MS and Silverlight on cross platform than I do Flash anymore after the past few years. Not only is Silverlight already available on other platforms it even supports 64bit (gasp).
And this is just the Silverlight 1.0 RC and MS doesn't expect long range use or adoption until 1.1 is finalized as it adds in massive amounts of support for web interaction and more language support. (1.1 is already in developer circles, and will be out not long after 1.0)
Also for people worried about adoption, take a look at MLB.com. There are a lot things in Silverlight especially on the programming side that Flash just can't do easily. Silverlight not only builds on Vista XAML technology for the web but also does HD quality video and can also do single feed streaming unlike Flash.
Single Feed streaming (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
This is used already in Radio on the web and is becoming more important with Video on the web with Live Broadcasting of HD content.
Basically even a small internet company could provide 100 channels of HD video content in live streams via Silverlight.
(This is what Windows Media Server technologies already d
Re:Questions Linux Support? (Score:4, Informative)
Come on. You can't seriously believe Silverlight will continue to be cross-platform, after Microsoft has a large enough installed base.
Parent
If I Were Adobe (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If adobe had ported their apps several years ago, than microsoft's position within this market would be much weaker making it a lot harder for them to force adobe out in the way they're now trying.
Dreamweaver vs. Expression (Score:3, Informative)
And starting Dreamweaver revealed a program (unlike the CS3 suite) that looked suspiciously (almost exactly like) Dreamweaver 8. It had a new tab for Adobe's Ajax framework and it might have some new support for cold fusion which I don't need.
It can no longer be said that Dreamweaver is kick-ass, open platform, in a lightweight package. It may even be bigger than Expression!!!!!! And MS has been learning from Dreamweaver. Expression only targets
If I ran MS (Score:2)
What pisses us off most is that for a lot of computing, MS has suceeded.
dumb companies... (Score:2, Insightful)
Just desserts... (Score:5, Insightful)
Did they really believe that microsoft wouldn't move in on their territory sooner or later?
Why mention 4-month old Adobe Silverlight quotes? (Score:5, Informative)
That Adobe "monopolist" quote is 4 months old. Did that quote really need to be dragged out again for this story?
(BTW, Adobe has some nerve calling someone else a "monopolist" when Adobe tried to collude with MS in price fixing to protect its own Office to PDF export monopoly (Adobe proposed that MS could include PDF export functionality in Office 2k7 if MS up'ed the price so as not to undercut Adobe's Office PDF-export tools.))
And Silverlight is already working on Macs, so the question of Silverlight being "compatilble with non-Windows operating systems" is more 4-month old FUD.
The submitter should've just gone with the story at hand, not dig up a 4-month old story about Adobe's fears of competing with Silverlight.
Adobe barks about MS Monopoly? WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
Image editing? Photoshop. Sure there's GIMP, but frankly, GIMP sucks and has no value outside of RGB colour space. There are a few other apps, (Painter, Corel, etc.) but the POINT is: pros use Photoshop because it is the best. Period.
Bezier Curve? Illustrator. There used to be a better app, Freehand, but it died in the Macromedia acquisition.
Page Layout? Sure, there's Quark, but everyone HATES Quark, and InDesign does the job. So, that's not a monopoly, yet...
Web Design? Dreamweaver. nuff said.
Web based animation? Flash.
Adobe completely dominates the graphic design industry, and for Adobe to make noises about MS being some kind of a monopoly is simply ludicrous.
RS
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
feel free to flame me to death now.
PS: SIGGRAPH is most fun conference (Score:5, Interesting)
2007 San Diego conference ended today. Los Angeles in 2008! (Big party city with all the studios)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)