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It's Time for Social Networks to Open Up

Journal written by edmicman (830206) and posted by CmdrTaco on Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:05 AM
from the heard-that-before dept.
edmicman notes that "Wired has an article, "Slap in the Facebook: It's Time for Social Networks to Open Up", that calls for the greater programming community to create a truly "open" social network. Specifically, the problems with today's networks, says the author, is that their content is not available to everyone."
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  • by UncleWilly (1128141) * <UncleWilly07&gmail,com> on Monday August 06 2007, @10:06AM (#20130195)
    I will be out to dinner tonight at 8pm, so that will be a good time to rob my house.
      • by brunascle (994197) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:22AM (#20130425)

        WTF? Part of the appeal of many of these sites is that it is restricted in some manner that that current users enjoy.
        indeed, called a "password", which is not included with the source code.
      • by Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:33AM (#20130583)

        'Open social networks' is greed-speak for 'easier SPAM access' AFAIAC.

        Or worse. I'm far more concerned with things like identity theft or profiling of child targets for other crimes than I am with spam.

        Opening up the social networks might be an ideal for a completely open society, but our society isn't grown up enough to be that open yet. Doing it now will just mean that anyone can abuse the system by data mining for their own ends, instead of just the hosting services and their current and (unknown) future owners and business partners.

        Of course, some of us removed our personally identifiable data from all social networks pretty early on, precisely because you have no idea who really has access to all that juicy insider gossip about your life and what they're going to use it for, even on the "closed" networks today. Facebook's entire MO is basically to get friends to spy on each other, thus resolving the one remaining block in intelligent data mining of the entire population.

        • by Iron Condor (964856) on Monday August 06 2007, @11:29AM (#20131253)

          Opening up the social networks might be an ideal for a completely open society, but our society isn't grown up enough to be that open yet.

          No. Even in the most ideal of open societies, I would still want to be allowed to form circles around certain topics. When I log into my arts community, I want to know that I'm surrounded by fellow artists who understand what I'm getting at when I speak of a particular effect that some software was never intended to do. I do emphatically NOT want a bunch of retarded computer geeks tell me that I merely have to reformat my hard drive, install a completely different OS and use this particular specialized software in order to generate that effect.

          Likewise, when I log into my fellow-nerd community, then I want to know that my subtle pun on the fine structure constant is actually understood. It would be completely wasted on a horde of uneducated Joes.

          Even my network of drinking buddies, which is about as "open" as a social network can be (show up, get plastered, be a member) should retain sufficient limits for us to decide that we just don't want to hang out with some given person. That dude that showed up to that party and started shouting racist crap when he was drunk - I'd rather not have him show up at the next party. I think we all made that known to him, but he didn't quite give me the impression of getting it.

          There are social networks that are filtered by virtue of their nature - my circle of co-workers is necessarily composed of certain hardware wonks simply because of the nature of my employment. For all the other ones, I'd prefer to maintain a certain amount of control over who I associate with.

          (Incidentily, I consider Facebook "wide open". It's not exactly hard to get an account; it's not exactly hard to join some network. And what is Myspace if not the widest open social networking side possible?).

          • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

            by autophile (640621)

            No. Even in the most ideal of open societies, I would still want to be allowed to form circles around certain topics. When I log into my arts community, I want to know that I'm surrounded by fellow artists who understand what I'm getting at when I speak of a particular effect that some software was never intended to do. I do emphatically NOT want a bunch of retarded computer geeks tell me that I merely have to reformat my hard drive, install a completely different OS and use this particular specialized soft

        • by fastest fascist (1086001) on Monday August 06 2007, @12:32PM (#20131927)
          Sir, get thee a Clue.

          Either you didn't read the article, or your reading comprehension needs serious work. The author was NOT calling for a network where all information is freely available to everyone, simply an open framework within which people can network as they please. It's kind of like IRC versus a web-based chatroom on a website - IRC is an open framework, anyone can make an IRC client that will work with any IRC server, but that doesn't mean users can't form private channels or choose who they communicate with. Similarly, there is no reason an open framework for a social network would require you to give up the ability to have distinct, closed cliques within the open system. You could, however, reuse any profile data you put in for as many different groups in as many different configurations as you like, without having to sign up for and maintain your presence on a multitude of different, specialized social networking services. You'd just need one login for one service, or maybe one login for a master network which you could allow any independent service to access to retrieve your data as you see fit.
            • by coaxial (28297) on Monday August 06 2007, @05:58PM (#20135887) Homepage

              We're talking about interoperability. Interoperability is always good.
              No, it isn't. In fact, in the context of the dangers of having too much information on-line and having it data mined for purposes you wouldn't like, interoperability and the One True Database are just about the most dangerous things there are.
              Let's be honest here. You're arguing for security through obscurity. "Security" through poor interoperability is an illusion. Any Bad Guy(tm) dedicated to doing ill can mine multiple social nets today. We're talking about allowing people to manage multiple social nets easily. It's stupid that someone has to monitor multiple sites. They should work together. I would argue that having multiple incompatable sites can actually lead to more insecurity since you can never be sure of what's going on all the assorted nets.

              If you're afraid of personal information getting out, don't post it.
              Well, I guess that's one step better than "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear."
              It's a hell of a lot better than "one step." It's the antithesis to "if you've got nothing to hide." It's "If you want keep something hidden, then why the hell are you doing blabbing about it?" My home address is not posted anywhere online. My phone number is not anywhere online. That's personal information and you can't get it. It's not a secret, but it's not something I want to share publicly. If I think you need it, I'll give to you. It's the same for any other personal info.

              The problem of your friends adding information to your profile is a problem of Facebook, not of social networking sites in general. You should have control over your own profile. Of course, you can't prevent someone from posting a picture and saying, "This is me with my good friend Anonymous Brave Guy! (He's on the left)." That happens all the time regardless of whether it occurs on a social networking site or not. Arguably it's easier to trace down connections among people because the links are explicit and contained in a relatively easy to use interface, but really, the photo scenario could have just as easily happened with any site.

              You knew when you joined Facebook, that friends were going to show up in your social network, either through explcity invites or by posting things to your wall. That's the whole point of joining any social net. To say that you were shocked to find that your connections to your friends would be accessible is the strain credulity to the breaking point.
      • by Blakey Rat (99501) on Monday August 06 2007, @12:10PM (#20131681)
        AFAIAC

        As Far As I ... Anchor ... Chilis?
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Kintanon (65528)
          Repeat after me, "I am not entitled to a large network of friends. No one should be forced to like me or associate with me. If I want to meet people and gain friends I will have to make myself more appealing to those people in some way."

          Now, continue repeating that until you stop being a jackass.

          I am a geek now, I have always been a geek. My definition of "Party" has always been slightly different that many other peoples. There was no shortage of social opportunity for me. I was just pickier about which one
  • 6 Billion users.... (Score:5, Informative)

    by pthor1231 (885423) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:07AM (#20130213)
    I wasn't aware almost everyone in the world had internet access....
  • Ok FOAF isn't really up to par with facebook, but I think it gives the right direction. RDF would allow people to create networking sites that'd be open to everyone, encryption might enable information to be available only to member of special groups etc. The key idea is to decentralize information.
  • knock yourself out (Score:5, Insightful)

    by yagu (721525) * <yayagu@gmail.cSLACKWAREom minus distro> on Monday August 06 2007, @10:09AM (#20130247) Journal

    I'm not sure what the complaint really is here. Market forces and web site design combined to create places like Facebook, people signed up, and it was successful? Alternative ideas are better, but haven't worked?

    The article raises interesting points but I'm not sure there's any "there" there. If you build it, they will come. If they like it.

    Don't discount some of the suggestions in the article will emerge, but market and social forces prevail. As long as these social networking metaphors are popular and users come and go of their own free will, life is good.

    I'm not sure the sublime or transcendental solution Wired seeks exists, or should. The internet is a network, electronic. It's a powerful tool. (..., the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes.(!)) I'm not sure life was meant to be played out on the internet, anyway.

    (For the record, I'm no big fan of these web sites... I think they're more fad than substance, but I embrace others' freedom to participate.)

    • by pthor1231 (885423) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:15AM (#20130333)
      After reading the article, it really looks like it's just this guy whining about being really lazy.

      Therein lies the rub. When entering data into Facebook, you're sending it on a one-way trip. Want to show somebody a video or a picture you posted to your profile? Unless they also have an account, they can't see it. Your pictures, videos and everything else is stranded in a walled garden, cut off from the rest of the web.

      Honestly, how hard is it to sign up for a facebook account now. You don't even need a school email, just an email. Everyone could have access if they wanted to, in about 5 minutes.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by corbettw (214229)
        On top of which, you can create a MySpace account and leave it open to the world. Or, gee, maybe create your own web site and/or blog yourself or one of a billion services. I don't get what problem this guy thinks exists.
      • Frankly, I think closed is a desirable feature in this case. Aren't people already complaining about a loss of privacy from use of social networking sites? Opening up that data could automate that whole process, allowing for automated spidering of user pages and wholesale data aggregation.

        Data monkey that I am, I'd be interested in playing around with that stuff, (e.g. "The phrase "Hooked Up" is 32% more common on the pages of male users than female users") but I don't for a second think that anyone who use
        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          I think closed communities are inevitable,

          I would go one further ans say that it is the boundaries that define a community. Something that is totally open isn't a "community" at all. What would it mean for some group to be a community if there is nothing and nobody that is not a member of that community?

      • by MSG (12810)
        how hard is it to sign up for a facebook account now.

        Why should you have to? There's no good reason to require that I have an account on every damned social web site, for the privilege of seeing what my own friends want to share with me.

        I'll say that again: the customers of the web site want to share things with their friends, and the current structure makes that hard. Social networks aren't providing their users with what they want.

        I'm all in favor of using a distributed identity system like OpenID [openid.net] so th
        • by PFI_Optix (936301) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:50AM (#20130811) Journal
          Facebook and Myspace allow you to share content with unregistered users. They also allow you to restrict it so that only your friends can see it. This is a good thing.

          I think the only thing networking sites could do to be more "open" is to become interoperable: Allow Facebook users to add MySpace users as friends. Of course, that sounds like it would be a royal PITA and would require a whole new standard be developed, but hey...open is good, right?

          There's nothing wrong with things as they are today. If you want to make your information public, get a blog. If you want to share something with just a few friends, use whatever networking site they use.
  • by Yold (473518) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:11AM (#20130289)
    Something that I was actually thinking about this morning is why are people friends with some, and not with others. Its because most people use their friends to feel better about themselves. I'm not saying they abuse their friends, I had a shitty weekend and sitting around laughing with my buddies on Sunday night at the bar made me feel amazingly better.
      My point is, I had this feeling of "this is us, these are my friends and this is where I belong". It took me about a year and a half to become a fully-accepted member of this social group.
      It wouldn't suprise me if the future trend of social networks is to become more and more closed off and exclusive. Like having to do interviews and personality tests to see if you are accepted into the group.
     
    • Concur. To drop an example, I like the fact that LiveJournal has a slightly exclusive feel. Quite a bit of actual dialogue going on.
      /. occasionally lets in a bit of information, but is more often a source of belly laughs.
    • I don't think the suggestion is that these sites be "open" in the sense that anyone can view and participate in your "social group". Rather, the suggestion I think is that these things should be able to interoperate, so that your profile didn't "belong to" Facebook or Myspace. As in, you could have your one profile that could be used in any social network you want. At least, something more like that than what we have now.
  • by BiggestPOS (139071) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:12AM (#20130303) Homepage
    I think part of the reason these sites are so popular is because they are *not* open. People like feeling as if they art part of a group, no matter how open that group may be in reality, if there is even a hint of the "velvet rope" effect its generally enough to make people feel special.
    And the general public likes to feel special.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by owlnation (858981)
      Yes, I think you are right.

      Now, I know myspace has been criticized for..., well many things really..., but mainly for having a population base that's considered lower IQ and social status. Where Facebook has been considered to be mainly a graduate type of network.

      However...

      I'm a filmmaker. I am a graduate, and have a pretty good social status. Much as I do agree Myspace is the place where web designers and anything considered good taste goes to die, as a filmmaker it is a very very good tool for ne
  • umm.... yeah..... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Lxy (80823) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:13AM (#20130323) Journal
    I like the comment that Wired "tried to build an open social network, and failed". Makes me think that Wired doesn't have a clue about Social networking in the first place (and why would they?)

    The crux of the complaint here is that in order to view someone's profile on Myspace/Facebook, you need to create an account. I guess I fail to see what's difficult about creating an account on a free service. Concerned about privacy? It's easy enough to set up bogus info. I guess I don't see the argument here.

    Is this just an advertisement for a new social network? Trying to create buzz around something that may fail for the sole reason that we we have is good enough?
    • I guess I fail to see what's difficult about creating an account on a free service. Concerned about privacy? It's easy enough to set up bogus info. I guess I don't see the argument here.
      It's a pain in the ass, and it's unnecesary.
  • BUT WAIT (Score:5, Funny)

    by thedrunkensailor (992824) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:15AM (#20130335) Homepage
    If we open up social networking and make it a community effort, who gets to sell it for millions?!?!?!
  • Hardware cost, bandwith etc. are the things that need to be 'available' to get things like this running. And that problem can be fixed in two ways, with advertising, which created the need to restrict access to the data to 'things which can show ads', or through a subscription fee which usually puts of the users en thus kills the data.

    Maybe some P2P system could fix this, but that whould require users to install certain software which generally slows adoption quit a bit.

    Or someone should donate a proper
  • by nine-times (778537) <nine.times@gmail.com> on Monday August 06 2007, @10:16AM (#20130349) Homepage

    Part of the reason I've always thought social networking sites were stupid is because it was a weird boundary to keep-- everything has to be on their site. Sure, that makes sense from the point of view of the business running the site, but I don't think it makes sense from a business standpoint.

    It would make more sense to me if people were able to create a set of standards for online profiles, access-controlled by something like OpenID, that could be linked from various sites. That way, I could design my own site, my own profile, my own weblog, keep all my data in one place and under my control, and have the linking between these sites be the "social network".

    I just think it's stupid that, if you want to participate in these communities, you have to go duplicating your data all over the place. I know people who had a profile on Friendster, MySpace, Facebook, and their own site, and spent a bunch of time trying to keep the profiles in sync. i never joined any because I refuse to take these things seriously until it's an actual open and dynamic way to establish a real social network, rather than a means to generate ad revenue for some creepy company that caters to teeny-boppers and child-molesters.

    • You echo my sentiments exactly: this social networking stuff only makes sense if it saves you time over other forms of networking. Signing up for Facebook, MySpace, LinkedIn, Classmates, etc and filling out the same information again and again is what has kept me from adopting any of them.

      It's like instant messaging - unless you are savvy enough to have a product like Trillian, you have to install AIM, MSN, Yahoo, Google Talk, and now things like Skype to keep up with all your friends on the various service
  • hmm (Score:3, Interesting)

    by thatskinnyguy (1129515) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:19AM (#20130385)
    I think sites like MySpace and some of the others need to focus more on user security before they go all "Facebook". I can't tell you how many people who have come to me with complaints that their accounts got haxor'd because they didn't take precautions and got phished. A good social networking website will be genuinely foolproof before moving on to third party apps.
    • I think sites like MySpace and some of the others need to focus more on user security before they go all "Facebook". I can't tell you how many people who have come to me with complaints that their accounts got haxor'd because they didn't take precautions and got phished. A good social networking website will be genuinely foolproof before moving on to third party apps.

      Perhaps once this is done, they can share the technology with banks [banksafeonline.org.uk], the IRS [cbsnews.com], Blizzard [ezinearticles.com], and everyone else using online authentication.

  • by Opportunist (166417) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:21AM (#20130419)
    While I'm all for the ancient hacker creed of data wanting to be free, it does not work. It simply does not.

    This would first of all require people to actually accept freedom of speech as the freedom of someone whose opinion or attitude they do not agree with. Try to start an open, unmoderated discussion group on a controversal topic (needn't even be abortion or capital punishment, emacs or vi already does the job) and within minutes you'll drown in opinionated, information-twisting and "FACT: I AM RIGHT!" messages.

    Do you want that in your discussion group?

    Not to mention that not much later (or maybe even sooner) you'll drown in important information where you get your penis enhancing products and that Lilly really wants you to see how naked she is on her webpage.

    If people did "behave" in social networks and be civil and rational, it could work. People aren't, though. And for this reason, I reserve the right to choose who may read my messages, who may discuss with me and who I do not want near any place I frequent.
    • Congratulations, you just invented Usenet!
    • Statistically, something like 1 in 30 people is a sociopath.

      There you go, I just killed the idea of successfully running a fully open social networking site any time in the near future, right there. Sorry about that.

  • by Tjp($)pjT (266360) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:22AM (#20130433)

    "Specifically, the problems with today's networks, says the author, is that their content is not available to everyone."

    It is a social network not the augmented expose of my life to everyone including the people that may wish me harm network. Dang social engineers think they know better but this is market and society driven. WE CHOOSE as a Social Network the places we want to expose ourselves and how much and most importantly to whom we will expose our information, and in some sites liked Linked-In some people see more than others. I LIKE IT THAT WAY. (sorry shouting at an ignorant pseudo-pundit, he may be smart but he is still clueless)
  • by rascher (1069376) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:22AM (#20130437)
    The article does not address the issue of privacy. Facebook and myspace, and xanga, allow users some amount of granularity to control who can view their personal data, which is one of the draws of these websites. Let me start a blog, post my home address and phone number and who I'm dating on it, and let google index it for spam-harvesters and identity thieves to come get? I don't think so.
  • by ThousandStars (556222) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:22AM (#20130451) Homepage
    Facebook, at least in my experience, is free of spam -- unlike, say, e-mail. Opening up the network would allow all the problems that currently plague e-mail (and, in my much briefer experience prior to deleting my profile, MySpace), thus reducing the value of Facebook to its users. I also trust, within reason, Facebook to not display my personal data to anyone except those on my friend lists. I don't want the "content" available to everyone, which is the whole reason Facebook took off in the first place -- people I want to see my profile can (friends, classmates), and everyone else can't. This article is a call to fight a problem that doesn't exist and that the author will create.
  • The WWW is already full of standards, right there for anybody to use: FOAF (mentioned before), microformats, and, yes, hyperlinks!
  • My original comments (Score:4, Interesting)

    by edmicman (830206) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:32AM (#20130567) Homepage Journal

    Since they cut my comments off of the article summary :-)

    Personally, I don't use either Facebook or MySpace, though I have friends that do. I host my own blog, and communicate with friends via email, IM, and forums. I run my own blog and pic hosting. I've just never really jumped on the social networking bandwagon. Yeah, I'm old school.

    As for this article, I can see both sides. Part of the point of the Facebooks and MySpaces is so that *not just anyone* can view what you put online. Nevermind that I don't really get why you'd post something *private* online in the first place if you didn't expect the world to see it. But the private social networks foster and clique or group mentality where if you're not in the know, you don't know.

    What the point of the article is, though, and which I tend to agree with, is there needs to be a better way to round up your online "identity". Why should I have to sign up for Facebook to keep in touch with some friends, and MySpace for others? Why should I have to be a member of multiple IM services to keep in touch with different people? I have multiple email addresses for different purposes. I have signed up for probably dozens of mailing lists and discussion forums, and have been an active member in more than a handful. Heck, I even signed registered on Slashdot so I can make posts and comments non-anonymously. Why should my online "identity" be fragmented so?

    Of course, the flip side of that is is that due to the fragmentation of my online identity, I still maintain that air of anonymity. I think that actually may be at the root of a lot of the issues going on. By having different email addresses and aliases, I can appear to some audiences as one person, and to others as someone totally different. Even on Facebook and MySpace, would most of those users publish in a real life semi-public place the photos, musings, and thoughts that they write on those sites? Perhaps we would ideally like the convenience of having a central identity, but don't want the accountability of being tied to that central identity? /blockquote
  • by hansamurai (907719) <hansamurai@gmail.com> on Monday August 06 2007, @10:35AM (#20130611) Homepage Journal
    Seriously, the best thing about Facebook is that it's closed to everyone but specific people that I want to allow. Nobody but my friends (or people in my network, Facebook offers a variety of privacy options) know what I'm up to, can see my favorites, or see my wall postings. I don't want random people to know specific things about my life. However, Facebook still allows you to do broad searches on specific fields in specific networks, but you can't access the real information until you become friends.
    • The point is to make APIs so that you can access the data with a defined protocol rather than with a web browser -- one can change the transport, and still keep the same authentication / data limiting~
  • > Want to show somebody a video or a picture you
    > posted to your profile? They have to have an account.

    Yup, but that's an enabler, too. For example, you can have an app that allows for conversations to develop around a video [facebook.com]. Rather nice.

    Disclaimer: I helped work on that one, tech details here [blogs.com].
  • Internet detectives are successful and creepy enough as it is even WITH "closed networks."

    Nevermind the fact that he's wrong and you can make your Facebook page (or at the very least your photo albums) open to the whole web. I found this out after mine was accidentally indexed in Google.
  • by blueZhift (652272) on Monday August 06 2007, @10:42AM (#20130719) Homepage Journal
    After seeing what most MySpace pages look like, I think it's not such a bad thing that the content on social networking sites is not freely available! And with the API having been opened up to allow the launch of a million and one chintzy and loud page gadgets, I'm not too worried about Facebook being closed either. Besides, wasn't the allure of the social networking sites hanging out and sharing with a few (hundred?) friends, and not the whole friggin internet?
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Meostro (788797)
      Facebook being closed is not the reason it looks "good". MySpace being open is not the reason most pages look horrible.

      open != user modifiable
  • The future of social networking isn't about telling everyone what you had for dinner, well, not in the Twitter [twitter.com] way anyway, it's about deriving content from the experience, in other words, writing a review of the restaurant you visited and making it available for syndication, more like Technorati [technorati.com] but with attribution and maybe even reward, or indeed what the original idea of the world wide web was, at a deeper level - where the link was the basic principle of Sir Tim's version of the Web, it becomes the arti
    • I agree. One of the better things about MySpace is that a user has a certain amount of control over what is and is not open to the public. This makes it a safer environment for kids who want to have pages and gives both the teen and the parent peace of mind to know that their information the is only available to a select crowd.

      I seriously do not see why this is modded as a troll.