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What Microsoft Could Learn from OSS and Linux
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Wed Jun 13, 2007 03:25 PM
from the they-seem-to-be-doing-ok dept.
from the they-seem-to-be-doing-ok dept.
An anonymous reader writes "An article on OSWeekly.com discusses a few things that Microsoft could learn from OSS and Linux. 'As Microsoft continues to understand that open source does not mean they cannot generate a decent profit, I honestly wonder if they will eventually "get" that releasing MS Office code to the open source community is their only option. Since the whole threatening to sue thing will be met with the same fan base response, just like the RIAA, it is certainly not a wise decision. And if Microsoft thinks Open Office is a pain now, try suing people over it, then see how many people refuse to buy their products.'"
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Code Release (Score:5, Insightful)
They dont have to release code.. just give out a 100% accurate specification, and don't threaten to sue just because you write a program that can parse Word 97/07 docs.
This goes for any closed shop. Especially hardware vendors. We'll write the code, just release the docs! :)
Office and Exchange are why people buy Windows (Score:5, Interesting)
Just about anything else could be released as Open Source, or given away free, and they'd do ok. They've done some things like that - Netmeeting was the first widespread H.323 voice/video/data/conferencing product, and while they didn't give out the source, the product was free beer (on Windows, of course), and was a reasonably standards-based reference implementation that everybody else in the industry could use. But messing with Office is messing with the crown jewels.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Or the family jewels, judging from their (re)actions...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
and then there are the must-have third-party apps and plug-ins that integrate with Office. along with the countless macros, templates, tutorials, etc., that do not exist for OpenOffice.org.
Re:Office and Exchange are why people buy Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
And they run Exchange for somewhat dodgier reasons
It may be hard to imagine, but there's a very clear reason why people use the Exchange/Outlook combination: nothing else has done such a good job at integrating contacts, e-mail, and calendars. Seriously, I've talked to a lot of Linux guys and OSS advocates who cannot grasp the value in it, but it really ends up being very useful and functional. For all the criticisms you might have of Microsoft, their products in general, and even Exchange in particular, it's difficult to find a client/server package that can replace Outlook/Exchange.
In fact, I would go as far as to place "insufficient Outlook/Exchange replacements" as one of the big stumbling blocks for Linux/OOo migration. Evolution does a decent job, but still not perfect, and is only available for Linux. A Windows version has been in the works for some time, but AFAIK it's not even in beta yet.
It's not even that Outlook or Exchange is perfect. Certainly not. There's lots of room for improvement, but neither the OSS community nor any other company is really filling the need.
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Mod Parent Up (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't care for Microsoft's business practices. And many of their products are horribly flawed.
But Outlook/Exchange are staples in the business world, and I don't see a really alternative.
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Re:Mod Parent Up (Score:4, Insightful)
It's funny to me because I always hear people claim that it wouldn't be too hard to replicate, but nobody seems to be making headway. People actually use the webmail, shared folders, "send as" rights delegation (or whatever it's called), active directory integration, push to mobile devices, meeting invites, etc. Exchange and Outlook might "suck ass", but they still achieve all these features out of the box with minimal configuration. This is one case where Microsoft is actually serving the business needs of their customers.
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Re:Mod Parent Up (Score:4, Insightful)
It is arguably the simplest, most intuitive, yet powerful tool Microsoft ever gave the average business user. I work in IT, and I have to support hundreds of end-users who don't know a damned thing about computers, but they get Outlook right away.
Microsoft has done many things wrong, but when you utilize Outlook in a domain with Exchange/Active Directory, you get a pretty powerful tool.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Let's face the facts about exchange though.. In my experiences, it's main benefit is inter company correspondence. Any other email program could do your external contacts just fine. Personally I would rather we stop using emails at work, and switch to an internal instant messaging system. It would eliminate 90 percent of my email. Most emails I get internally could be han
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, but I have to email these "complete idiots", send them meeting requests, reserve resources for those meetings and then have shared folders so people can access archives of data in order to prepare for those meetings. And, right next to those emails and requests, I need to be able to watch my calendar and the calendars of the recipients updat
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
So what you're saying is that an office package in which I can't do something as simple as search my own multiple mailboxes is 'doing a good job'? I'm a 100% Windows guy who supports this useless frack of an app on a daily basis, and it makes me positively nauseous just thinking of the entire world using the same piece of utter shite to manage their schedule and contacts every day.
The 'integration' you're talking about? Yes, they've stuck three sub-standard pro
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Re:Are you for real? Non free is dead. (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's get this straight. M$ is coercive monopoly [usdoj.gov]. People do not want Vista [slashdot.org] because it's expensive [slashdot.org] and restrictive [badvista.org]. People are not buying it. The only thing they want less than Vista is a new Office design, complete with a format no one can open that forces them to buy the OS they don't want.
I think it's worth pointing out to you as well that Office 2007 works perfectly fine on XP so you're talking shit that it forces them to buy an OS they don't want, and to add insult to injury you can open Office 2007 documents in Office 2003! Further proof, that you're a fucking moron (you know, with how often you get moderated Troll, I wonder how you can post more than once a day).
The real question is how long hardware vendors can hold their breath before deserting M$ entirely. They have waited six years for Vista and it's a dud. Retailer have been squeezed into buying 20,000,000 coppies of Vista that no one is buying, which adds insult to the poor hardware sales injury. The complex and anti-competitive standards M$ has pushed on hardware makers has made hardware purchases a real crapshot, solved only by purchasing systems as a unit or meticulous research. How long are they going to back that kind of inefficiency when the result is a stab in the back like Plays for Sure [slashdot.org]?
Their "crown jewels" are third rate and increasingly irrelevant. Digital restrictions are an obvious dissaster which must be removed if they want any media market share. After six years of development, mostly wasted on digital restrictions, we get Vista. I've never, ever, heard anyone say they like a new Office format that causes them to go spend a bunch of money. M$ can't fix these problems on their own and no one is going to ride to their aid unless the result is really free.
M$ has a choice to make: go free or die. I have not had any of their stuff in my house for six years and I could care less. Either way they are a diminishing threat to hardware and file formats.
Also, you mention that you haven't had an MS product in your house in six years, and apparently care a great deal about it (because you could care less, as opposed to couldn't care less). In that case, shut the fuck up because you don't use the products, and therefore you don't know anything about them,
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So many questions! (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The make plenty of money with office ( and windows ) totally closed, and dont realy need the 'free market' to be on board.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
For some of us, this is a good living
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Nah; I'd bet that they have a typical corporate software development environment. There's not just a spec for everything; there are several conflicting specs for most of their software. And the programmers generally ignore the specs, because they understand quite well that they'd better work on what their management wants (this week), if they want to keep their jobs.
Title (Score:3, Insightful)
Right, the next headline will be... (Score:5, Funny)
Leave the money makin' to the convicted monopolists, shall we boys?
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Piracy (Score:5, Interesting)
Besides which, Open Office is in no way a real threat to MSOffice's success and market dominance. Like Microsoft is supposed to throw away their monopoly because someone else has made a word processor for free? Right.
Piracy is the excuse, sales are the reality (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft Office Home and Student Edition 2007 [amazon.com] is $122 from Amazon.com, retail boxed. Three seat license. Currently - and predictably - #1 on the Amazon software sales chart.
There is of course the OEM edition and academic pricing.
The Geek is far too quick to equate max retail list with the street price for a legit copy of Office. But the deeper truth is that MS Office is still overwhelmingly dominant in every market and still best of class.
Sun Star Office 8 [amazon.com] - a solid alternative, one might argue, for the home user - is $73 at Amazon and #1000 in sales.
Parent
Get real (Score:5, Insightful)
Why in the hell would they do that or be enforced to do so?!
You can't enforce anybody to 'open up code'.
Supporting ODF or opening their own formats or codecs would suffice.
Re:Get real (Score:4, Interesting)
My prediction? Microsoft is going to convert their Office product to a series of ActiveX applets and serve it up through Internet Explorer. Homes and small businesses will access the applets over broadband Internet connections, and larger businesses will be offered a chance to license an Office server either as an application or rack device.
The only reason they haven't so far is because broadband penetration in their target markets isn't high enough yet. At some point, they're going to decide that a sufficient percentage of their market has broadband, and they'll discontinue client-side-installed Office software.
It's unfortunate for them that broadband didn't spread more quickly. This administration gives them the perfect atmosphere of leniency. If they could have released an online Office two years ago, they could have established their position as the de facto way of doing business before a potentially more strict administration came along.
Parent
Woohoo! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Hey, that's not fair. He fixes PCs & tinkers & stuff. [lockergnome.com] ;-)
hmmm, What could Microsoft Learn from OSS & L (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
They could learn to really let the users define the software.
They could learn to let go of the marketing department madatory requirements and buzzwords.
But perhaps most importantly, they could learn that the product name has absolutely nothing to do with it's function, but is more of a reflection of the original programmers wit.
OK maybe not so seriously.
RTF (Score:2)
Nothing (Score:4, Insightful)
yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
Statements like that just shout "I am delusional!". The people using Open Office are kinda already refusing to buy Microsoft's products. I don't think Microsoft is shakin' in their boots about pissing off Open Office users.
Re:yeah, right (Score:5, Insightful)
This mistake is VERY common among technical people. Programmers assume users will want to use an application the same way they would want to use it. In many parts of the Open Source community, programmers write open source applications with themselves in mind as the target audience. There are definitely exceptions, of course, but this is true of the majority. Having to jump through a few highly technical hoops to install or configure the software is often considered fine, even in a "release" version. For a regular user this is a disaster, as they are unable to navigate the installation/configuration hurdles and quickly give up.
Microsoft, meanwhile, fundamentally understands users. Look at what they concentrate on: Installation and Look and Feel. Technical users bemoan XP and Vista as lipstick on a pig. They're right. But Microsoft knows that the road to wealth is not paved with hidden efficiencies like optimized TCP/IP stacks and user/process security models. The road to wealth is paved with nearly foolproof installations and preinstalled pretty looking software. Software that caters to the user. (Technical software with a smaller audience, such as the nightmare installation of Team Foundation Server, are not a part of this discussion since the user base of such software is by nature highly technical)
You may say, "But wait, MS products aren't all that pretty, and they don't always install well!" True today. But Office, when it came out, was prettier and easier to install than anything else on the market. Windows 95 even more so. Now that they've gained the upper hand, they've become complacent, living off their inertia. Still, when new products debut (like Vista), the same two focuses emerge: Ease of Installation and Look and Feel. (Note that Pre-Installation of Microsoft OSes and Office is a HUGE factor in Ease of Installation, don't overlook it if you respond - there's no easier install than no install).
Parent
Damn, I wish I had mod points for you. (Score:5, Insightful)
As long as people maintain the attitudes like the one you shredded, Microsoft has nothing to fear. Microsoft has some of the worlds brightest technical people, who get beaten down on a regular basis when they try to get all 'geeky' with the software. Eventually, really good technology makes its way into the products, especially in the case of Office 2007, but only when the "user experience" is taken care of. It has to look good, feel good, install and uninstall with ease, and become second nature to the user in a short amount of time.
Linux people need to understand what they are up against. I work with a group of small medical research companies. When Merck decides to move to Office 2007, guess what all these companies have to do in order to continue working with Merck? Ya think they are going to take a moments look at Open Office? Nope.
You see, Microsoft understands that they can focus all their sales attention at a group of select companies, and the rest of the market has no choice but to follow, just to stay in business. Suppose you are a small manufacturer, trying to get your product sold at Walmart? Try sending them a financial forecast on anything but Excel, and see how far you get?
You dont beat this kind of lock-in with technical superiority. Steve Jobs understands this, and has restructured Apple accordingly. Linux vendors should follow his lead, but they dont. In no way is the IPod, or IPhone the most technically superior solution in its space, but both will be market leaders on the cool-factor alone.
Geeks dont like it, but tough shit, that is how the world turns.
In every industry, and in every marketplace, marketing determines who wins. I say it over and over again on Slashdot, but until Geeks relinquish the direction of their creative inventions to people who understand how to SELL something, the folks at Microsoft will lose no sleep.
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Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Install the compatibility pack?
Who cares about OOo? (Score:4, Insightful)
They don't. Nobody, and in terms of market share that's almost not an exaggeration, uses Open Office. If OOo would gain even a 10% market share, MS would probably like it, because it would help them argue that Microsoft Office isn't a monopoly.
Google Apps is a much bigger threat than OOo.
Correction (Score:5, Funny)
I honestly wonder if they will eventually "get" that releasing MS Office code to the open source community is their only option if they really want to stop making almost 3 billion dollars [cbronline.com] a year in sales.
There, fixed that for ya.
Huh? Wha? Did I miss something? (Score:3, Interesting)
You jumped from point A to conclusion B awfully fast there. Why would they want to release the source code to Office? Also from TFA...
Ah...so you're worried that Microsoft would SUE someone using OpenOffice?
Honestly, I think OpenOffice is its own worst enemy. I've tried to switch to OpenOffice several times, but it just can't match my old Microsoft Office 97 in terms of launch and execution speed.
Uh (Score:5, Insightful)
How old is whoever wrote this? 12? Who honestly believe that anyone gives a flying expletive about whether Microsoft sues the Open Office project or not? As if the millions of technologically apathetic Microsoft Office users will rebel against Microsoft for a cause that they've likely never heard about.
How did this get on the front page? It's like a half-way thought through anti-Microsoft rant taken from any random open source related IRC channel.
this "article" is rubbish (Score:5, Informative)
The important thing is, Bill Gates had an onion tied to his belt, as was the style at the time.
Has the poster RTFA? That's not even a rant - rants usually have a point or a specific grievance that they're aimed at. There's no point to that, no argument, he's not trying to meaningfully convince anyone of anything, offers no evidence, no logical or illogical basis for what's being concluded, nothing. It's just a loose collection of vague, meaningless assertions about how doomed MS is if they don't change. Does he even name one thing that MS is going to miss out on by not being OSS?
Release MS Office Code? (Score:4, Funny)
Billg: "That's the dumbest fucking idea I've heard since I've been at Microsoft."
Another wacko (Score:5, Insightful)
I Hate to Disagree... (Score:5, Informative)
You want to sue Microsoft for sabotaging you or stealing your patents? Go right ahead. You'll be embroiled in a long, expensive lawsuit, and the eventual penalties, if you get any, will be very little. As a result of FUD or "embrace, extend, extinguish," your company is more likely to be marginalized by the end, like RealNetworks or Netscape. I really think the only way to have dealt with it was the major antitrust lawsuit by the government, but we know how that resulted.
Open source Office? (Score:4, Interesting)
What possibly would Microsoft gain from exposing the code base? It would certainly allow OpenOffice to incorporate all of the "features" of Microsoft Office into their product with (a) little work and (b) no risk. What else would it do? It would not make throngs of Open Source devotees rush out and buy something the could have for free. I can't see unpaid volunteers contributing to the rather rigorous build process Microsoft has to add fixes for obscure, unfixed bugs.
And why does Microsoft have to sue anyone?
Re:How to treat people (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Non free has always treated people poorly. (Score:5, Informative)
far too many RTFM's for the OSS community to be lecturing Closed Source companies on treating people like they matter.
Where do you see that? It's not on my LUG or in the class I help teach. Elitism is entirely a closed source constrution. Non free software is designed from the beginning to keep people helpless and divided, to create haves and have nots. Free software, by design, is inclusive and friendly. Have you ever seen a Vista install fest where enthusiastic volunteers come together and give a configured OS to anyone who wants it?
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Re:Non free has always treated people poorly. (Score:4, Insightful)
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've seen it enough that while I don't necessarily think it's pervasive, it's certainly a problem.
This is no different than your wacky claims that you haven't seen a Vista laptop in your school, so therefore no one is buying Vista and it's a flop.
There's a nice Latin term for these types of disingenuous conclusions: reductio ad absurdum [wikipedia.org].
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Re:There's probably more they could learn from IBM (Score:5, Funny)
"Oh, yours is coming! We'll have our day! Yes-sirree!"
*kick kick kick*
"We're open source and free and real agile with a moral high ground and all kinds of stuff, and you are goin' DOWN!"
*lots more petulant kicking*
The dinosaur looks down, puzzled. It tickles. It also squishes.
Parent
Re:There's probably more they could learn from IBM (Score:5, Funny)
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